WEBVTT - Chapter 17: Going in Circles 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Bridgewater is a production of iHeartRadio three D Audio and 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.760 Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. For a full exposure, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.400 listen with headphones. Listener discretion advised. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.440 Yeah, hey, wake up? 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.119 What what is it? 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:25.959 You hear that? 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:27.160 Hear? 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:31.960 What the hell is that? 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:33.840 What is it? 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:34.120 Is it? 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:34.560 A bear? 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:37.199 A bear in the swamp? 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:39.360 I think that's in the cooler. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.680 I told you we should have brought it inside with us. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.239 We barely have enough room as it is. Can you 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.920 just what scare it off? 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:51.920 Oh my god? 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:57.600 Okay, okay, fine, fine, yeah, I'm sure it's just it's. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:03.360 Just, oh my god, what is it that? It is 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.600 not a bard. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.760 The surviving camper does not appear to be seriously injured, 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.440 aside from a large hand frend shaped roof. The camper 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.880 claim they were attacked by quote a huge, hairy bigfoot. 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.200 An official from the Department of Parks and Recreation said 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.239 this is the first very related death in the area 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:13.160 since nineteen seventy eight and would caution visitors to always 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.920 keep an eye out for wildlife with camping and to 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.200 not leave moved out it can't attract animals. As for 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.200 any bigfoot dangers, well, it would see the first time 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:23.560 someone has made that claim. 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:38.960 If you're in talk Walk, Peyton Blake, you must be viippin' Kurna. 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:41.600 Thank you for meeting me. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.920 Yeah, well, Jeremy assured me he wasn't just sending the 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.600 Bee team to chat because he couldn't be bothered. So 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:49.960 I assume you know what you're talking about. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.760 Wow, Okay, that is a hostile way to introduce yourself 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:56.519 to someone. 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.720 Excuse me for being blunt, but there aren't a lot 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.760 of people that I trust with discussing these matters openly. 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.600 But you trust Jeremy. I hear your first meeting was 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:07.160 a bit of a. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:12.399 I understand Jeremy's stake in all of this. He's connected 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.040 to the other side, whether he likes it or not. You, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.960 I don't know or the nature of your interest in this. 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.040 I'm getting my PhD in mythology and I've just discovered 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.799 that magic and monsters are real? Is that a good 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:28.840 enough reason? 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:29.120 So? 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.640 Academic curiosity is why he wanted to talk to me. 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.080 The truth is why I wanted to talk to you. 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.680 Why did you want to talk to Jeremy. 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.520 To get him to accept the truth. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.840 That Thomas needs to go back into the what did 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:43.560 you call it? 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:48.000 The liminal that Jeremy is in possession of a gift 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.040 that was never meant to be given. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.200 Okay, I know we're still not totally sold on her, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.080 but it really seems like we'd be dead if it 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:01.840 wasn't for Peyton. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.120 Really, I thought you were perfectly capable of fighting big monsters. 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.200 Look, look, I'm sorry about the other day. Okay, I 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.600 shouldn't have been so hard on you. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:11.240 No, I get it. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.920 You've been a cop your whole life, and you probably 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:16.200 see what I do as frivolous. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.400 It clearly isn't your knowledge about this stuff might save 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:20.760 our lives? It might save my life. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.240 Yeah, well it didn't serve me any good against that Howler. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.080 Well god, I mean, there have been sightings of Bigfoot 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.760 for years around here, but there's never been a death. 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.960 It's just these scattered bits of evidence over. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.400 Time, what kind of evidence, like I don't know, you know. 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.679 Large bipedal footprints, which obviously plenty of hoaxers are created 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.680 in the past in order to drum up press or attention, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.839 or just for the sheer joy of pranking people. But 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.200 now all of it feels like an indicator of something 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.800 much much more dangerous than any popular conception of a 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:50.520 sad squatch. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:52.440 I don't understand how it could have come back so 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:53.760 quickly from the other side. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:54.240 I don't either. 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.359 Maybe Peyton didn't banish it properly or fuck, I don't know. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:58.960 Maybe the fay Realm is able to send it right 0:04:58.960 --> 0:04:59.440 out again. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.240 Not good. Those Rooine carvings are the only prediction we 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:03.880 have right now. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.200 So if they barely give us any time to breathe, Yeah, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.360 And there's also no reason to think that there's only 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:10.320 one of these monsters. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.040 Is that supposed to be comforting? 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.760 If if, if we can't spend all of our time 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:16.880 waiting for the worst thing to happen. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.760 The worst has happened, Jeremy, someone is dead. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:23.000 Listen. 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.760 I'm just saying, we have to look at what's right 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:27.560 in front of us, Okay, we have to gather as 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.640 much information as we can right now. Vippin is talking 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.760 to Peyton, Anne and Olivia or. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.560 Why is Vippin talking to Peyton? 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.359 What do you mean she's. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.039 Trying to get more specifics from her on what the 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:39.920 gathering might know. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.359 I think she told us everything that she knows. He 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.560 shouldn't have bothered with her. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.760 Well, she actually reached out to me. She wanted to 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:46.920 talk to me for some reason. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:48.800 Why. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.640 So I told her that she could say whatever it 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.520 was to Vippen and he wanted to meet her anyway. 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.359 Are you okay? What's going on? I'm fine? Are you sure? 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.279 You seem it's just look, I don't want us running 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.840 around in circles, that's all ough. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:02.760 I just feel like we're going in circles. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.480 Oh, I actually think the problem is we haven't found 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:06.200 any circles. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.680 Oh, you think you're funny to look. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.320 It was a long shot anyways, but. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.279 It shouldn't have been. Right, Like, we know for a 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.400 fact that Alden got lost somewhere around here, and there's 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.560 no way he could have wandered all the way to Freetown. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.160 And Thomas said that Alden remembers walking into a forest, so. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.600 Well, it's not like we combed through every bush. 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.760 Rahoba State Forest is like half a square mile. Hey, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.240 we searched the whole thing. I know it was eighty 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.400 years ago, but I was hoping for something. A circle 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.560 of mushrooms, a weird path of flowers, out of place. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.280 Tree, doorway to another world. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.680 What if it wasn't even about the mushroom circle. Mushrooms 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.359 grow in weird formations all the time, and just because 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.160 it stuck out in Alden's mind doesn't mean that's the 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:47.479 way he. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:52.400 Got taken in. What if it was something even more innocuous. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.239 Well, then we might have walked right past the evidence 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.200 and not even known it exactly. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.200 I just I want to know where the tracks are, because. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:02.320 Then I won't fall in. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.440 Honey, I don't think it's as straightforward as that. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:05.920 Live. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.440 You know, you have to be willing, or you're supposed 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.080 to be willing, and you know well enough not to 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.160 go follow in strange voices in the woods. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.680 Yeah, except that's all we're actually doing. I was starting 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.360 to think maybe there was some kind of Bradshaw Hoskins 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.520 family curse. But maybe it's just the way we are, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.640 like something in our blood that makes us want to 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.440 walk right into places we shouldn't. 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.600 I don't think that's just a Bradshaw Hoskins straight Plenty 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.640 of folks would say the exact same thing about me. 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.679 Yeah, so we've got a doubly bad first Thomas, then Jeremy, 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:38.360 then Ethan. 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.320 I mean, who's next Jeremy didn't get taken. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.640 But you don't think he's just wandered off to you. No, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.760 the messed up thing is part of me wants to see. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.600 It, see what the other side. 0:07:55.280 --> 0:08:00.000 Oh live, I mean, come on, aren't you curious. 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.080 It's like Narnia, Evil Narnia. 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.920 I mean, Narnia was kind of evil Narnia during the 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:11.760 whole Eternal Winter bit live. No, I'm not saying I'm 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.120 gonna go doing a weird sacrificial ritual to try and 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.720 walk through the wardrobe or anything. I'm just saying that 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:23.200 impulse is there. Maybe that's why our family has been 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.600 so easy to lure, because there's something in us that 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:27.560 already wants to go. 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.640 But people don't even get to the other side. They 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.320 get stuck in between. And I think we both know 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:36.959 that that's not an enviable fate. 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.280 Now, people don't get to the other side as far 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.000 as we know. But it's not like you can send 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.520 a text back and say, hey, I'm in Fairyland. They 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.280 got great food here, never coming back, so we would 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.880 never know text. 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.640 It was a joke, No, no, I know, but it 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:56.760 made me think there's a question we haven't been asking. 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:07.960 All Right, fine, you got questions, ask them. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.720 How does the Gathering know about the pay, real, about 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.080 the deal, about any of it. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.960 It's the whole reason the Gathering exists. What the Gathering 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.000 is just the most current iteration of a community that's 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.480 been in operation in one form or another for centuries, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.200 stewards of the gate between worlds. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.000 You're telling me there's an exclusive club that's been around 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:34.880 for hundreds of years that controls mystical forces. You know 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.320 how that sounds? Right? 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:36.920 I do. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.920 And it's not like that. There's no controlling this thing. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.040 There's just knowledge. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.400 Oh and human sacrifice to some kind of otherworldly force 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:48.439 that has to be. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.640 Appeased for the last time. It is not human sacrifice. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.800 Oh, so the Gathering is the one group in the 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.120 entire world who knows about magic, and it's entirely up 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.000 to them to keep the tenuous veil from ripping open 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.800 and unleashing some kind of fairy chaos. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:06.840 Do you want me to tell you what I know? 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.400 Or do you just want to ride my work and 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.079 get out whatever frustration that's pent up? 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.440 Okay, you have to understand that this is all a 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:21.480 bit well. I mean, you weren't born knowing the stuff right. 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.800 At some point you have to be told that's true. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.480 But I was told so young that it feels like 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.800 I basically was born with this knowledge. My father was 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.320 the Virginia chapter leader before me. I've been going to 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.760 gathering meetings my whole life. Saw a snally gaster for 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.320 the first time when I was twelve, learned about the deal. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.640 When I was sixteen, you saw. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:51.920 A snally caster, a real snallycaster, like the reptile bird thing. 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:56.880 With the tentacles and all, yeah. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.520 What what did you? I mean, how did you kill it? 0:10:58.840 --> 0:10:59.480 My dad did? 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.480 The veil there gets really weak at random times and places. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.880 It's even more fickle than here, or at least it 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:07.440 had been. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.000 So it wasn't like there was something wrong with the liminal. 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.760 No, our rituals have moved like clockwork for at least 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.400 the last century. But that's not the only way. Stuff 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.440 slips through too much a cult or pagan activity. Everything 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.600 from wickens doing their normal practice and not realizing it's 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:26.880 having side effects, to a group of people on a 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.120 ghost tour that are buying into the stories a little 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.360 too much. It can all leave the door. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:37.840 Ajar, Wait, so are you saying that the gate is 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:44.040 opened by belief and closed by belief as well. Why 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:45.800 do you think there were so many reports of the 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.120 supernatural in the past. It was more accepted, more people 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.080 actually believed, so more stuff bled through. Chicken and egg, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:12:03.320 round and round. What It's just, it's ridiculous, like clap 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:08.560 if you believe in fairies and they'll stay alive, that's true. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.440 I mean, Peter Pan got everything else wrong. But all 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.120 stories have a grain of truth in them, right, even 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.600 if it's a really tiny grain of truth. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:25.440 I wanted to believe before I knew any of it 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:30.840 was real. I really wanted to believe, to experience something 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.440 that defied explanation, and then to be the one to 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:35.640 find the explanation. 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:41.480 You didn't break the gates wide open. Don't worry. One 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.439 person can't do all that much. 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:49.000 Except close the gate by giving themselves over to the liminal. Yeah, 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:54.000 except that, I don't get it. If the gathering knows 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.920 all of this, why didn't Celesti just tell us? And 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:58.520 how did you get the ritual wrong? 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.120 Secrets are order to keep the more people you tell 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.280 only gathering leadership is told the truth by the outgoing leaders, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.839 and chapters don't communicate as much with each other, as 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:09.360 we should. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.840 But Celeste was a leader. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:14.000 Yeah, something. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:21.079 Something went wrong here, Yeah, no kidding. From what I understand, 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.040 things sort of fractured here in the seventies. 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.200 Yeah, there was an offshoot, the Children of Titchiba. They 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.160 were more on the side of propping the door open 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:32.680 for good. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:39.240 Yeah, that happens. That happens bad leaders have been chosen. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.360 Sometimes someone finds out about the other world and kind 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:44.120 of loses it. 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.880 And that's what you think the Children of Titchibo was. 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:54.360 I think after the children, everything here broke down. No 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.880 one knew how things were supposed to go. So when 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.760 it came time to keep the fay Realm happy. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:05.520 Eh, no one knew how. Okay, But how does that work? 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.440 If all it takes is one person to not pass 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.120 down the information for everything to go heywire, then how 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:11.439 are we. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.040 Not constantly on the verge of collapse? Who says we 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.960 aren't think about it? There are still sightings and encounters 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.840 all over the world All the time. People see Bigfoot, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:28.600 they think they've been abducted by aliens. Boats disappear at sea, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.680 kids go missing. Most of the time those things are 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:39.800 the result of human behavior or cruelty, but sometimes sometimes 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.040 it's the other side bleeding through. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.520 And how many of these gates are in the world? 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.600 Does every state have them? Every country? 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:50.680 I have no idea. 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.360 I know I seem like I'm an expert, but I'm not. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.960 I'm an expert in my area, and I'm tapped in 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.080 just enough to know that something was wrong up here. 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.840 But there is so much of the picture that I 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:05.480 don't see, right. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.600 But what about your dad. I'm assuming he's retired now, 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.160 but he must have learned a lot when he was 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:10.680 a leader. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:16.520 He's not retired, he's gone. 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.720 Oh I'm so sorry. 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:21.480 We knew it was coming. 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:23.040 He was sick. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:30.200 No, he left. That's how it works in Virginia. Becoming 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:35.920 leader of the gathering means eventually stepping into the liminal. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:44.840 What so he was the volunteer. Yeah, it's cleaner that way. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.520 The secret gets kept and no one ends up in 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.320 a place they don't want to. The leader gets to 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.480 prepare their successor before they go, and they know they'll 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.280 eventually be replaced in the liminal. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.040 Replaced, what does that mean? 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.640 It's a temporary center. They move on, move on where 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.600 that I definitely don't know. 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:14.040 Maybe just death. Whatever that is. 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.480 My dad always thought it meant going over to the 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.560 other side completely, living in the kingdom. I think you 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.480 liked the idea of being in a magical world, monsters 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:33.000 and all. I'm kind of hoping for disappearing entirely. I 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.800 don't know that I'm on board for eternal life in 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.520 some other place. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.320 You you're the replacement. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.000 So the story goes. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.520 Why in the world would you agree to that. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.960 I get to live a full life before then, have 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:59.160 a family if I want, mentor someone protect the world, 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.000 and I'm gonna die anyway, so this is just adding 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:04.720 a pit stop. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.639 Thomas said it didn't feel like forty years. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:09.760 It felt shorter. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.240 It's unclear. I think he couldn't tell. I think sometimes 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.639 it felt endless with that because he didn't age. It 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.000 also felt like no time at all. But I'm sure 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.359 it's different for every person. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.879 Well, he's the only one who's ever come out after 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.199 going in, so he's probably the best source of intel 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:30.280 I'm gonna get. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.080 Look, I know you want him to go back in. 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.679 I don't want anything except for the deal to be 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.119 honored and the gate to be shut. If someone else 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.879 wants to go in, they are more than welcome to. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:48.760 But what kind of life could he have now? Really, 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.479 he's been declared dead for decades. He can't undeclare himself 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.600 without becoming some sort of government pincushion. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.320 And people steal identities, you know. 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:03.080 Sure, but then what hmm? He watches his son most 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.720 likely die before him, He loses his wife before he's 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:07.400 even fifty. 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:12.720 They never actually got married, Ann and Thomas. I mean, 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.880 that's not my point. And they seem pretty till death 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.320 do us part regardless, and one of their deaths is 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.159 going to come a lot sooner than the others. But 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.800 he barely got to live the first time. He has 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.479 a daughter and a grandson. He has never met a 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.640 son who's grown up without. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:39.679 Him, and that will never not be a tragedy. But 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.800 he can't get it back. Even if he had the 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:48.680 whole happy family unit in place, he would never get 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:49.600 that time back. 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.480 So I was thinking, maybe tonight you and I could 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.760 go out, grab a beer, get a burger somewhere. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.080 I'd have thought that you would want to go back 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.160 to Anne and share what we've found. 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.159 I think we can take one night off without the 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:24.760 world ending. 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.040 Well, that's a very different tune from what you were 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.320 singing earlier. Look, I just I don't know how much 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:31.840 time I have. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:33.840 Please, please don't talk like that. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.159 No matter what happens, I want to make sure to 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.320 spend time with my son. Maybe we can even make 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.520 it a new tradition. Pick a place, go there every week, 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:42.720 just the two of us. 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.040 That does sound good, That sounds great. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:47.960 It'll take a while for me to catch up on 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.400 all that I've missed. I want to hear about California 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.520 and Oxford and she's everything. 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.840 Really, God, I don't know where to start. I mean, honestly, 0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:59.480 there's not a lot to tell. I'm afraid I spend 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.080 most of my time in California and Oxford in class. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.560 Well, I want to hear all about it. Maybe I 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.240 could even come out to one of your lectures. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.080 Yeah, that might have to wait. 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:14.160 My students this semester are well aware enough of who 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.639 you are that I'm not sure that they'd be fooled 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:18.200 with your updated haircut. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.880 Fine next semester, then, and in the meantime, you can 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:22.800 tell me what you do outside of teaching. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.280 You mean, like now present day. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.680 Yeah, we still have about a half a mile. 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:36.120 Yeah, I go to conferences sometimes, I meet with other academics, 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:37.120 swap research. 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:38.800 I don't know. 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.880 There's usually some kind of faculty gathering once a semester, 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.960 but you know, school, and I've been working on the book, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.080 so these things keep me pretty busy. 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.679 How about friends, mat a girlfriend? 0:20:54.320 --> 0:21:02.280 Huh oh, yeah, I've never been much of a I 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.040 don't know. I guess I'm not a super social person. 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:10.280 And dating just always has felt like it's too I 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.080 don't know, it's more trouble in it's worth. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:14.879 Dating. 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:15.800 Must have changed. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.479 You never wanted to get married have a family. 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:22.280 I just never. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.280 I haven't met anyone that I had interest in sharing 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.240 my whole life with. And I don't think I would 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.000 honestly make a very good father. 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:32.800 What about you? 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:37.080 What I mean, God, you must be dying for human 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.480 interaction after having spent forty years with a kid. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:46.960 I've always loved kids before. You were my favorite person 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:47.720 to spend time with. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.160 I was a baby, I was a toddler. 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:57.159 I mean, it's not famously good demo for conversations. 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:04.080 You were wonderful, curious, You're funny, always loving. You were 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.880 so open, so giving kids off and are But it 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:12.199 was like nothing scared you, was like nothing could hurt you. 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:19.400 I have this like memory of just a feeling so. 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:26.320 Safe when I was with you, and now. 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:28.239