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Speaker 1: I think that if the result today had been different,

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Speaker 1: and then with players who've been allowed to go back

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Speaker 1: on the tour, that would have been devastating to hand

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Speaker 1: in the GA. I got thoughts in my head. Can't

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Speaker 1: get them John, Nothing what I'm thinking about? That got

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Speaker 1: thoughts in my head. I can't get them out, John,

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Speaker 1: Not to think what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is

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Speaker 1: Alan Schipnak back for another Fire Drill podcast. A little

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Speaker 1: bit of housekeeping real quick. We want to think our

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Speaker 1: sponsors Part Points the best golf scoring at there is

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Speaker 1: and Seed Golf, awesome little ball company out of Europe.

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Speaker 1: They allow us to do fun things like this. So

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Speaker 1: tonight we're joined by Matt Janella and a very special

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Speaker 1: guest in Peter Ginsberg is one of the pre eminent

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Speaker 1: legal minds in the sports field. He represented Vjcing and

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Speaker 1: his very successful lawsuit against the PGA Tour, and he

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Speaker 1: is represented a variety of tour players in different actions

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Speaker 1: against the tour, most of which no one ever heard

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Speaker 1: of because of Peter's skill keeping things quiet and getting

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Speaker 1: things done behind the scenes. So Peter, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being here, and let's let's just get right to it.

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Speaker 1: I was courted today, big verdict. What do you make

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Speaker 1: of the tour's first first victory and what's no doubt

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Speaker 1: going to be a long legal process. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not terribly surprised. We've been several very confusing, very confusing missteps.

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Speaker 1: Then the players have really made this all about money

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Speaker 1: and a new damage is usually on sufficient sustain a

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Speaker 1: request for a joint for relief. They didn't make it

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Speaker 1: much about prior to the game and the importance of

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Speaker 1: the system, the points system. They also waited far too

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Speaker 1: long to bring their request for in junctive relief and

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Speaker 1: really created the emergency. Like the judge said, So it

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Speaker 1: wasn't terrible surprising. There's a lot of talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's especially for a temporary restraining or there's a high

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Speaker 1: threshold to prove the damages, and that was that was

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Speaker 1: tossed around by non experts like myself. But can you

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Speaker 1: explain to the listeners what live would have had to

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Speaker 1: have done or the plaintiffs, I should say three individuals

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Speaker 1: would have had to done to win this. Uh this

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Speaker 1: tro so let me give you an example. Several years ago,

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Speaker 1: I was representing a couple of people from the Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: like in in case you became known as a star

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Speaker 1: capsutation and the commissioner tried to suspend them. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go into all of the details, but for

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Speaker 1: something that they should not have been the subject of

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Speaker 1: a substreension, and we went into court and Minnesota to

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Speaker 1: ask for a junkerbe We didn't argue about the money loss,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't argue about policies at the NFL. Instead,

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Speaker 1: our argument was based on reputation and the pride of

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Speaker 1: playing the game, and how much it would tarnish their reputations.

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Speaker 1: Being heard in that way is an emergency. It can't

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Speaker 1: be remedied by winning later on, as opposed to simply

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Speaker 1: asking for money damages when you can always be compensated retroactively.

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Speaker 1: So it has to be something more personal and frankly

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Speaker 1: more important than simply I'm asking for money. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I thought the you know, the the plaintiffs lawyer, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he kept make trying to make the case that the

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Speaker 1: FedEx Cup was now the avenue to get into the

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Speaker 1: major championships for these players, if they could they get

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Speaker 1: in the top thirty, that it's just a great platform

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Speaker 1: for building their brand. And he tried to make that

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Speaker 1: argument a little bit. But um, the judge didn't seem

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Speaker 1: too impress you know, I mean, I guess from from

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Speaker 1: your perspective, how how tall a mountain was was this

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Speaker 1: for for the plaintiffs to actually climb? I mean it

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Speaker 1: seemed like they you know, if you just look at it,

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Speaker 1: the fact that they left the tour and now they're

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Speaker 1: trying to get get back onto the tour. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: was it was going to be an uphill battle. But

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Speaker 1: how how much in your in your minds? But how

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Speaker 1: how long were the odds against him before before this

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Speaker 1: even began. I think the way this is played out,

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Speaker 1: it was like a money grow and and that's who

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Speaker 1: That's where the judge decided. Yeah, if they had focused

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, you know, about the importance of the

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Speaker 1: dead actual coup, of the importance of you should you're

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Speaker 1: in the meeting for the game, I think they would

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Speaker 1: have been far better off. But the people who are

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Speaker 1: these smokes, people with um are gonna aren't the most

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Speaker 1: atractive candidates should be made from that that claim, Matt,

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Speaker 1: what were you gonna say? No? I mean I felt

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Speaker 1: like we should probably just go back for a second.

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Speaker 1: For me, from the outside not being in the courtroom. Alan,

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Speaker 1: you were there, Peter, You've been in there, you know,

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Speaker 1: a good jillion times. I'm sure I've listened to your

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Speaker 1: interview on the Stripe Show podcast with Travis Fultman. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was very informative. But before we get a little,

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Speaker 1: you know, even in more depth, I just I think

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Speaker 1: a little bit of color in terms of what the

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Speaker 1: courtroom looked like, I think would be fascinating. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It's just a gift from the content gods that somehow

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Speaker 1: Northern California was as the venue and I can just

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Speaker 1: drive up. There's in San Jose's about a hour and

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Speaker 1: a half away, and so I blew up there. I

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Speaker 1: kind of got there a little bit late and I

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Speaker 1: was rushing, but walking into the courtroom, it's such a regal,

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Speaker 1: formal setting, and in this chaotic political moment where it

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Speaker 1: seems like every institution is under attack and the rule

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Speaker 1: of law is always seems to be in question, it

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Speaker 1: was neat for me, as someone who is rarely in

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Speaker 1: a courtroom, just to see it play out and the

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Speaker 1: formality of everyone rises, for the judge and all the

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Speaker 1: lawyers and their beautiful Italian suits, you know, that are

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Speaker 1: glistening in the lighting. Clearly those suits cost more than

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Speaker 1: some of the people's cars in the parking lot. And

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Speaker 1: just the the decorum and the respect that the lawyers

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Speaker 1: showed for the judge and the whole process, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of neat to be there, honestly, and

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed that aspect of it. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: knew nothing about Judge Freeman coming in. I saw in

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Speaker 1: gin she's a thirty three handicap. She put does play

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Speaker 1: the game. But I thought she was really good. I

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Speaker 1: mean she had she had these these lawyers on their

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Speaker 1: toes and um, you know a few times I burst

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Speaker 1: out laughing. Some things were said. I kind of look

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Speaker 1: around like, oh sorry. It reminded me of being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, around a green at Augusta National and someone

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Speaker 1: whispers something funny to you when you're trying to hold

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Speaker 1: it in, Like are you allowed to laugh? I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what the rules are, but um, there was

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Speaker 1: there was some levity, and you know, I really thought

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Speaker 1: both sides did a good job in their arguments, you know,

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Speaker 1: them the plaintiffs, they made some headway. They did explain

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Speaker 1: the timeline a little bit. Peter White all these things

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Speaker 1: had to happen by the scenes before they could bring

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Speaker 1: their suit, and the judge found out persuasive because she

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Speaker 1: was dubious to begin with. I thought, I thought the

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Speaker 1: tour lawyers really made made some headway in explaining how

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Speaker 1: how much these guys knew what they're getting themselves into

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Speaker 1: and how much money they had taken. And that was

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Speaker 1: kind of a little mini courtroom drama because the judge

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Speaker 1: had access to the contracts, so she knows the actual numbers,

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Speaker 1: and the lawyers know the numbers. They didn't want to

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Speaker 1: say it out loud, and a couple of times the

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Speaker 1: different lawyers that came up right to the edge and

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Speaker 1: the almost said it, and you're like on the precipice

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Speaker 1: of something juicy revelation. They pulled themselves back and I

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Speaker 1: could see people like me and the other there's twelve reports.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of leaning forward, like ooh, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the plaintiff layer lets slip at one point that the

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Speaker 1: live earnings are counting against the advance that some of

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Speaker 1: these players got. He didn't go in any more detail,

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Speaker 1: but that was a little mini bomb show that was

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Speaker 1: interesting that wasn't and at the same time, you know

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Speaker 1: that that can be explained in different ways. Every contracts

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Speaker 1: different and some things are bare frontloaded and some have

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Speaker 1: it on the back end. So two things can be true.

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Speaker 1: Were at once, where you win the tournament, they send

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Speaker 1: you a check, But what that means on the back

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Speaker 1: end your deal, who knows. But what when that happened,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was looking around and some other guys

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Speaker 1: were looking around. We made that contact, like, oh that's juicy.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just like funny little moments like that.

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Speaker 1: It was um And then of course the judge takes

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Speaker 1: this fifteen minute break and leave, and so now women's

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Speaker 1: in the hallway buzzing about what's going to happen, trying

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Speaker 1: to bird dog the lawyers, and and then you go

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Speaker 1: back in the courtroom and just waiting for it to

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Speaker 1: come in, and like it really felt like the emotion

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Speaker 1: of it all was fun. I mean, you've been down

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Speaker 1: that road many times. But when when you're one of

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Speaker 1: those lawyers and you're waiting for the judge to come

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Speaker 1: in and render their verdict, Like, what does it feel

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Speaker 1: like on the inside for you? Not quite as bad

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Speaker 1: as when you're waiting for a jury to come back.

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Speaker 1: But what was the rationalization did the liverturnments gave from

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Speaker 1: why they waited so long that there was there was

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Speaker 1: all these different protocols that they had, they got suspended,

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Speaker 1: they had to do, they had to appeal, the peel

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Speaker 1: had to be heard. Um the tour uh did X

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Speaker 1: they had to do? Why that led to Z and

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Speaker 1: I haven't in some of my notes, but it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of this process that had to play

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Speaker 1: out behind the scenes, and the lawyer did a good

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Speaker 1: job of laying it out. The tour pushed back a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but ultimately in our closing remarks, the judge

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Speaker 1: did nod towards the plaintiffs lawyer and said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I do agree that this was about as timely as

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Speaker 1: it could have been filed, this lawsuit, and so so

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Speaker 1: they did a good job explaining that. But you know, really,

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Speaker 1: for all the different complicated factors that went into this,

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Speaker 1: it just came down to um proving that you know,

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Speaker 1: I repel were all harm would we'd be done to

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Speaker 1: the plaintiffs. And because they'd already gotten so much money

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Speaker 1: from live golf, then keep making money. They have other

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Speaker 1: ways to play play their way into the majors. Theoretically

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Speaker 1: the judge ruled against him, but I thought it was

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Speaker 1: I thought the lawyers kind of argued to a draw

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Speaker 1: and that the deck was are we always stacked towards

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Speaker 1: towards a tour on this particular issue, So it was

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Speaker 1: it was an interesting, interesting kind of repartee. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that the justice justice system worked. Yeah, god man, Peter.

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Speaker 1: I one thing I'm I'm curious about is is your

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Speaker 1: sense that that this is all just a part of

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Speaker 1: the long form process. This literally needed to play out.

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Speaker 1: Not very surprising that these particular players lost this this battle,

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Speaker 1: given the case they presented and when they presented it

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Speaker 1: and how they presented it, and and yet this will

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Speaker 1: be all part of what's going to be the long,

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Speaker 1: the long narrative arc of of kind of the anti

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Speaker 1: trust uh you know battle. I think that's right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think how that if the result today had been different

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Speaker 1: and then with players have been allowed go back on

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Speaker 1: the tour, that would have been devastating to Monahan the FA.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's you know, I think the question

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Speaker 1: of whether there's an anti trust violation is a closer

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Speaker 1: call and far more complicated and will take a while

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Speaker 1: to play out. You said that there are two aspects

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Speaker 1: of anti trust law, monopoly and conspiracy, and monopoly is

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Speaker 1: obviously one that seems to be the dark shadow looming

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Speaker 1: over the PGA tour um. Well, how, how, given given

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Speaker 1: the fact that it feels like they've been monopolistic and

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Speaker 1: and gotten away with it for a long period of time,

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Speaker 1: how is there a way that they that they win

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Speaker 1: the anti trust case. Well, you know, let me let

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Speaker 1: me say, I think anyone who tells you how this

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Speaker 1: is going to play out who's going to win, is

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Speaker 1: um being overly confident his or her own abilities, because

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Speaker 1: they are really very complicated issues. Monopolies can happen because

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Speaker 1: of nefarious or purposeful actions, and monopolies can happen because

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Speaker 1: of market forces and events that are not necessarily indicative

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Speaker 1: of anti trust violations. And there are certain aspects of

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Speaker 1: the doctor world with points in playing in the tournaments

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Speaker 1: and things that can have an almost when you were

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Speaker 1: referred to as a monopolistic effect, but really simply as

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Speaker 1: a way to strengthen the appeal at the PGA. There

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Speaker 1: are media rights and media contracts which are more or

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Speaker 1: less valuable depending on the or the sanctity of the game,

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Speaker 1: and the higher the contracts are, the more monopolistic the

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Speaker 1: game is. Because the persons are high, as so the

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Speaker 1: incentive the players high. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's

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Speaker 1: anti competitive. It could it could mean just the opposite.

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Speaker 1: You know. I think that if the the PGA would

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Speaker 1: do wealth for itself, if it focuses on so many issues, um,

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Speaker 1: involving the politics, the the sort of psychological aspects of

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Speaker 1: the game, whether the players themselves feel like the game

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Speaker 1: will retreated, and their retreat If people from Live, for instance,

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Speaker 1: are allowed to make their way the tournaments without having

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Speaker 1: to go through the same rigorous um, you know, rigorous

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Speaker 1: schedule and and rigorous standards that they have to go through,

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Speaker 1: it would might be you know, it might be interesting

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Speaker 1: if this took the turn so it was less monetized

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Speaker 1: to use that it were I think it was used

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Speaker 1: in the courtroom today and more focused on what the

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Speaker 1: effect of the PGA would be. Two um, not to

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Speaker 1: buy it against society, Arabian government and the politics of that.

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Speaker 1: It may be that the PGA are to be taking

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Speaker 1: a more political standard. UM. I mean, certainly you're not

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Speaker 1: going to see an awful lot of basketball players going

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Speaker 1: over the rush to play basketball and there I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's certain political undercurrents that might be more attractive and

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Speaker 1: make this less of a forensic battle over monopoly. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I do I think this is just the beginning. Well,

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Speaker 1: and that was interesting because in some ways this today's

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Speaker 1: hearing transcended the moment because whether or not these three players, who,

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Speaker 1: let's be honest or not stars in the game, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to play in the FedEx Cup. I don't

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Speaker 1: think anyone was that emotionally invested in that particular question,

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Speaker 1: other than the fact it was just this was the

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Speaker 1: first battle, but the larger anti trust case is what

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Speaker 1: really matters. And so the tour tipped its hand a

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Speaker 1: little bit in its defense when the lawyer, you know,

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Speaker 1: he put up a slide that showed the player impact

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Speaker 1: program from last year and that five of the top

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Speaker 1: ten are now playing on on the Live Tour, and

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Speaker 1: they had some stats about the three events that Live

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Speaker 1: has played, how many elite players have had in the

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Speaker 1: field versus the PGA Tour event that same week, and

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Speaker 1: it was it was stacked in the direction of Live,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the lawyer basically says something the effect like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say, but the competition is fierce, and

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Speaker 1: so the tour is in this funny position of now

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Speaker 1: what they haven't wanted to acknowledge Live publicly, but now

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Speaker 1: in the court of law they're saying, Hey, these guys

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Speaker 1: are kicking ass and they're a real threat. We can't

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Speaker 1: be ANOPU laue because they're taking all our players and

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Speaker 1: they got better players than we do, and so they're

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Speaker 1: kind of it's a little dance between the public relations

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Speaker 1: you get in the Jay Monhan's press conferences and then

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Speaker 1: the legal argument is totally contrary to that. So I

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Speaker 1: thought that was an interesting part of today the tour

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Speaker 1: on some level, conceding defeat to Live, which then might

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Speaker 1: end up biting them when it comes to the battle

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Speaker 1: of World golf rankings and whether or not that you know,

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Speaker 1: whether or not Live deserves the rankings, and whether or

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Speaker 1: not Live can taggle their competitive you know, forum to

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Speaker 1: be four rounds instead of three, that that could end

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Speaker 1: up being being used against them, Yes or no. I

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Speaker 1: kind of doubt that the world rankings are PGA focused clearly,

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Speaker 1: and Live can have its own ranking system. But I

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Speaker 1: think then as long as the PGA doesn't conspire with

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Speaker 1: the majors and as long as you Live is you know, viable,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be it's going to be difficult to

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Speaker 1: prove anti competitive behavior. Yeah, I mean what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: Matt is interesting because there's there's the quest, and both

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Speaker 1: both entities, the Tour and Live are also battling in

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Speaker 1: the court of public opinion, which is different than a

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Speaker 1: court of law, and so um it is there's a

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Speaker 1: little dance going on which I found intriguing. And even

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Speaker 1: on the point of um, you know this is this

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Speaker 1: is different, but this it looked like there was going

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Speaker 1: to be a key point in the ruling was whether

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Speaker 1: or not the commissioner has the absolute power when when

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Speaker 1: someone is suspended for any reason, that they can like

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Speaker 1: make them sit out tournaments. Because in one regulation Peter

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Speaker 1: said that when when you're on appeal, you're you're allowed

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Speaker 1: to keep playing. But then there's another by law that said, well,

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Speaker 1: the tour, the commissioner, at his discretion essentially can even

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Speaker 1: someone who's on appeal, he can bar from playing because

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Speaker 1: this their very presence could be so inflammatory. The lawyer

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Speaker 1: used kind of a weird example if a guy had

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Speaker 1: hate speech on his hat, that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the idea that these live golfers would

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Speaker 1: show up wearing live gear at at one of the

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Speaker 1: PGA Tour flagship events, it was kind of a fun

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Speaker 1: thought exercise. And you know, I think the tour dodged

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Speaker 1: a bullet there because the judge is not overly impressed

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Speaker 1: by the language in these regulations. But it does speak

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Speaker 1: to a larger question that abuses this whole debate is

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Speaker 1: how much power does the commissioner have to set policy?

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Speaker 1: Does he work for the players or do the players

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Speaker 1: work for him? And I know you've jousted with Tim

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Speaker 1: fincham anam with Jay Monahan, and I want to get

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Speaker 1: your opinion on the unique role of the PGA Tour

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Speaker 1: commissioner to set policy and to make unilateral decisions. What

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Speaker 1: is their role and when it comes to dealing with

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Speaker 1: their own membership to say, for for Monahan to say

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Speaker 1: that he works for the players is fashionable. I mean Monahan,

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Speaker 1: Monahan runs the PGA, and if the PGA is successful,

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Speaker 1: the players make more money. So in that very simplistic

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Speaker 1: way he could he can without breaking you know, laughing

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Speaker 1: out loud, make that clean. But Monahan has really almost

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Speaker 1: unfettered power in many ways. He has greater power than

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Speaker 1: commissioners of other leaders because since the players are independent

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Speaker 1: contractors and there's no union representing the players, and Monahan

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the and I can the the the the

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Speaker 1: anti competition or exemption that some of the other commissioners

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Speaker 1: have it. On the other hand, he doesn't have any

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Speaker 1: group fighting against him. Golfers, by their nature, are not

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Speaker 1: a particular cohesive group. They don't really and they have

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Speaker 1: never historically joined together to fight for any particular principles

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Speaker 1: as far as I know. So in that respect, Mona

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Speaker 1: handles more. It can be more draftonian than some of

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Speaker 1: the other sports commissioners. Peter, if Phil Nicholson had called

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Speaker 1: you a year and a half ago and said, look,

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Speaker 1: I've got some gripes, I got some issues. I'm doing

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Speaker 1: these side games. They're charging me a million bucks. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a control over my brand, my ability to

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Speaker 1: market my brand. We don't have a collective bargaining agreement

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Speaker 1: within the structure of the PAH or unlike all the

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Speaker 1: other sports. Peter, I want you to help me form

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Speaker 1: a group of players to take on the PGA tour.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is that would that have been a better

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Speaker 1: system a way of going about this then going out

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Speaker 1: and forming a breakaway tour with Saudi Arabia and undermining

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Speaker 1: sort of like if Nicholson had called you a long

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Speaker 1: time ago and sort of started fresh, would would you

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Speaker 1: have taken the case? And do you think you would

359
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Speaker 1: have had a better case than what? And then the

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Speaker 1: way this is all unfolded. Oh well, let me answer

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Speaker 1: the first question first. I've had that conversation with some

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Speaker 1: other players and I've tried to make that point. But

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Speaker 1: golfers are very independent, independent people, and it was very

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Speaker 1: hard to convince a core group of them to organize

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Speaker 1: sort of wrestles some of the control from the commissioner

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Speaker 1: the institute's programs that are fair to the individual players.

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Speaker 1: I think you know your second question is whether it

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Speaker 1: would be better, and I guess that depends on what

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Speaker 1: their goals are. If their goals are to make more money,

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Speaker 1: I think that they lived tour probably is better for

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Speaker 1: Niffers than if he had formed a unit to fight

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Speaker 1: the PGA, and the better protect the player's rights, and

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Speaker 1: if that's his priority, that's his priority for sure. I

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Speaker 1: think if you could ever organize the members to actually

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Speaker 1: act together for a greater good, it could make the

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Speaker 1: game a lot better. It could make the sort of

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Speaker 1: procedural protections and other safeguards much stronger for the players.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, if if all nifolers really cares about money,

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Speaker 1: he probably went about in the way that it's better

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Speaker 1: from Nicholson. Yeah, I'm not sure that he particularly cares

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Speaker 1: about the game as much as he cares about himself

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Speaker 1: at leastuch sort of just my opinion from watching him

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Speaker 1: and listening to him over the years. Interesting how much

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Speaker 1: weight should this decision carry? You know, if you're if

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Speaker 1: you're a fan and you're trying to make sense of

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Speaker 1: all this, It's like, Okay, the tour is going to

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Speaker 1: declare victory um, and they've I've already my inbox, I'm

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Speaker 1: already getting statements and from the tour, and and you

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00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: know they're they're trumpeting this like a major political victory.

390
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Speaker 1: But in the larger scheme, can can you give some

391
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Speaker 1: context to what this this really means? Like I should

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Speaker 1: be where I really do think this is just the

393
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Speaker 1: first step. And I think at this point, the PA

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00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: you ought to sort of step back and think about

395
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: their overall strategy and whether over lisening members views on

396
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: this and thinking about some of the political positions that

397
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Speaker 1: can be taken would benefit them in the long run.

398
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Speaker 1: I think it's really it is the first step, and

399
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: it's too early to tell how this is going to

400
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: play out and to give us to people some idea

401
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: of how long this process is going to be. At

402
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: the end of the hearing, excuse me, the judge laid

403
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: out a tentative timeline and she said September of twenty

404
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: twenty three as the anti trust trial date, so that's

405
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: thirteen months, and she was kind of apologized. I said, hey,

406
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: I know, this is a really compressed timeline. You guys

407
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: have to work really and there's like, oh boy, thirteen

408
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: months is all we have. Like, you know, I don't

409
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: know what having for breakfast tomorrow, So it's funny to

410
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: think about it so far in the future. But I

411
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: know these are complicated things. And over the next thirteen months,

412
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: if there's no settlements and both sides to get dug in,

413
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Speaker 1: how many hearings and how many public events could we

414
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: expect that will train a spotlight on the ongoing process. Well,

415
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Speaker 1: part of it depends on whether everyone plays not actually

416
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: or because the first battle will be over discovery of

417
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: production of doctor making people available for depth visions. And

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Speaker 1: you know, lawyers can be lawyers, and so they either

419
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Speaker 1: decide to work together or they'll have one dispute after

420
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: another in the judge will have to get involved in

421
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: the magistrate more likely at some point, probably suited than later.

422
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Speaker 1: They'll be the first iteration of legal motions, probably emotions

423
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: to dismiss like the PGA. I'm claiming that they can't

424
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: they they can't make out and a trust violation, so

425
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: they'll be they'll be motion practice. You know, the same

426
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: warriors are representing the PGA in this case is represented

427
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: the PGA in the sink case. And you know we

428
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: were in colort a lot and they were made a

429
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: lot of emotions. It's just sort of the way they

430
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: played the game. And sometimes it's effective and sometimes it's

431
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: counter productive. Sometimes the judge is intriguement. Sometimes judges gets angry.

432
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: But if you like going to court, it's a good

433
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: show for you, and it's um it's at a point,

434
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it'll be interesting to see and the strategies

435
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: that become more and more evident. It's that process is

436
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: going on, and then once they go through discovery, there'll

437
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,239
Speaker 1: be a second round. We used to second round the

438
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: emotions hearings down those motions and ultimately maybe they'll get

439
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: to trial. But thirteen months is not much time to

440
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: put together a case like this. That's amazing. I'm just

441
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: thinking of all the billable hours because I counted up

442
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: the tour lawyers in the courtroom. There was twelve of them,

443
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: and they had their little rolling suitcases full of stuff.

444
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: Some dude had like four huge boxes on a dolly,

445
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: like they came two sopranos. They came heavy, and they

446
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: were they were ready, and oh yeah, it was. It

447
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: was an impressive mobilization of manpower. Like um I was.

448
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: I was amazed. And it seemed like every time the

449
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: lawyer had a thought, someone would scurry over and had

450
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: him a document and run back. It was like watching

451
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: a ball boy at the US Open tennis, you know,

452
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: Like the choreography was impressive. So um. Clearly, the you know,

453
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: the tour sees US as a threat to its very

454
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: sort of bival and they're gonna throw h every resource

455
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: necessary to defend themselves. And uh, it was. It was

456
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: quite a display, honestly. Oh yeah. And and you look,

457
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: the representing the tour had represented the PGA for a

458
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: long time, so they they know, they know these they

459
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: know the association, they know the players, and they'll they'll

460
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: do a good job, you know. I think that they

461
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: have to be careful not to sort of necessarily follow

462
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: the old traditional payball because it's gonna be a heart occasion.

463
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. Obviously,

464
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: this is this is fascinating stuff. I really love your

465
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: perspective and especially given your background in your history, so

466
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you. You're spending time with us and

467
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: uh and informing us and hopefully we can have you

468
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,479
Speaker 1: on again in the future. Be great anytime. It's fantastic stuff.

469
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: Good to talk to you too. I mean, my grandma

470
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: really want me to go to law school, and I'm

471
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: now regretting it because who knew that this was going

472
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: to take such a turn. I mean, but anyway, um,

473
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: I was hoping you'd say that your grandma wanted you

474
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: to be a sports writer, you know, and we could

475
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: have anyway, we could have swapped. Yeah, so after we

476
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: have not a horrible idea. All right, well, this that

477
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: was Peter Ginsburg, pre eminent lawyer. Thank you for your thoughts,

478
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: Matt Janella. As always, I'm Alan Scheff. This is the

479
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: the end of this fire drill, but we know there's

480
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: gonna be many more. We'll we'll keep doing these as

481
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: events warrant. You know. There was a big news break

482
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: about Cam Smith joining Live, which is not official yet

483
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: but it seems very close um anecdotally. After the Tour

484
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: champion Ship, other players are expected to jump. So this

485
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: story will continue to evolve and we will keep keep

486
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: talking about it and then trying to educate and entertain

487
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: all the listeners out there. So thanks for thanks for

488
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: being here, Thanks to Pure and Matt. This is Alan

489
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: Shipnik and that's the end. I been big and I

490
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: played to win, made a fortune within my ship game. Man.

491
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: I ran the table, never thought I could fall. Then

492
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: the winter time hit me like a cannon the ball

493
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: and now I can't shake this losing the stream. Every

494
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: road I take is a dead end stream. I got

495
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying not

496
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: to think what I'm thinking about. I got the thoughts

497
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: in my head. I can't get them out. Trying not

498
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: to think what I'm thinking about