WEBVTT - Is ageism getting old? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.280 Next Question with Katie Kuric is a production of I 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.280 Heart Radio and Katie Kuric Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.440 and welcome to Next Question, where we try to understand 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.959 the complicated world we're living in and the crazy things 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.880 that are happening by asking questions and by listening to 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.160 people who really know what they're talking about. At times, 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:24.240 it may lead to some pretty uncomfortable conversations, but stick 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:32.360 with me, everyone, let's all learn together. You look great 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.640 for your age. That's a compliment, right, or is it 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.560 for your age? You're look really good for your age. Yeah, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.839 I'd say that that's a compliment. Um, it implies that 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.600 at your age you should look terrible. Do you think 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.160 ageism is one of the last acceptable isms in society 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.680 that it's okay to criticize older people. I feel like 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:54.959 when you get to a certain point in your life, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.960 you're kind of becoming or are invisible, and so I 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.760 don't think it's acceptable. Okay, great, thank you so much. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.959 In today's youth obsessed culture, aging seems to be viewed 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.560 as a negative, something to be feared, not revered, and 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:15.160 the messages were inundated with every day only reinforce that. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.000 A new study by the a RP found only fift 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.160 of images in the media show people over the age 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.920 of fifty, and when they do appear, they're often at home, 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.080 sitting around with a partner or nurse instead of out 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.720 in the world exercising or working, and you never see 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:38.280 them using technology. Then there's the anti aging industrial complex. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.880 Aging skin is dry. It can be embarrassing and make 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.520 you look older than you really are. Now you can 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.000 do something about it. Visibly plump skin in just one week, 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:52.200 bounce back and reduces wrinkles for younger looking skin. It's 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.960 the ultimate beauty victory. Nobody has any idea how old 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.720 you are. Why is aging portrayed as something to avoid? 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.880 It all costs a source of shame and embarrassment, especially 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.320 for women. My next question is ag ism the last 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:13.919 socially acceptable is um. I'm sixty two and I'm happy 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.920 to be the age I am most of the time. 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.400 I'm out there, loud and proud doing my thing. But 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:24.799 all too often people become marginalized or ignored as they age. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.280 Maybe that's starting to change though, After all, there are 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.680 almost fifty million people sixty or over in the US 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.920 and there is active as ever, today prejudice against any 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.040 group is not considered a good look. But does that 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:44.320 extend to older people? I think that unconsciously, although I 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:49.160 had no agenda when I started my doing, Accidental Icon 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.280 was really kind of giving the finger to this notion 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.680 that I have to be invisible. Now, lens Later is 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.600 the headline making fashion influencer own on social media as 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.880 the Accidental Icon. She was catapulted into fame five years 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.880 ago when she was mistaken as a fashion industry insider 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.680 outside an exhibit in New York City. Now in her 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:18.639 mid sixties, she has nearly seven hundred thousand followers on Instagram, 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.640 as well as a modeling contract. So let's talk about 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.160 how this happened. Because, first and foremost, I understand a 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.600 college professor at Foredom, Is that right? Yes? Although I 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:36.200 just retired after twenty years of teaching last semester. So 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.680 now you're embarking on this whole new career, right, a 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.440 whole new career, but really trying to think about how 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:49.120 to incorporate my teaching and my commitment to social welfare 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.839 into this new career. What did you teach it? Foredom? 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:57.040 Social welfare? AH, soci our law, the whole idea of 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:01.440 agism and how society treats older people. It's right in 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:06.240 your wheelhouse. Actually, do you think ag ism is the 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:11.920 last socially acceptable is um in America? I actually do, 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.880 and I actually discovered because on my Instagram, my largest 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:24.200 following is actually eighteen to forty and the biggest bar 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.280 five to thirty five. Of course, being an academic, I 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.120 asked a lot of questions whenever I met twenty five 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.760 year old who followed me, I would say why? And 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.760 so it turns out I've now determined the ages and 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:43.440 begins at When you are twenty five, you don't say, oh, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.280 I'm gonna be twenty six my next birthday. You say, 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.360 oh my god, I'm gonna be thirty. I'm getting old, 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.719 And then all of the stereotypes about what that means 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.680 enter into your head. And then the next thing are 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.640 all social expectations for women. And I haven't done this, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.320 and I haven't done that, and I haven't done that. Lenn, 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.240 how old are you now? I'm sixty six? When people 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.000 ask you that, do you ever wonder if you should 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.080 lie about your age? Or how have you ever lied 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.520 about your Never? Why? Well? I think a long time ago, 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:24.480 I decided that in order for me to have power 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:29.279 in the world, that I had to understand and own 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.040 any limitation that I would ever have in my life. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.160 And my response to limitations has been to respond to 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.839 them in a creative way. And so I think that 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.680 I get more angry than scared about these things. The 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.720 visual representation that you give to people, I think also 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:56.760 is incredibly empowering, just as women are empowered by seeing 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.840 images of other powerful women. The whole notion of if 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.719 you can't see it, you can't be it. Seeing you 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.440 a woman of a certain age quote unquote, who is 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:16.200 often marginalized or diminished or made invisible not seen, is like, hell, yeah, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.280 she's out there, she's living her life, she looks fantastic, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.640 she's cool, she's stylish, and you know what, God damn it. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.320 So am I that's the response. But I want to 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.440 also make this point because I think it's really important. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.039 There's a whole bunch of young women that feel marginalized 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:40.560 because they don't reach this perfection that fashion kind of 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.039 puts out there, and so a lot of them are 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:50.360 also inspired because I think, basically, I'm just very comfortable 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.000 with who I am, and your messages you do you 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.520 basically yeah, And when young people say, oh, I'm gonna 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.520 be just like you when I get older, I always 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.040 right back to them and I say, be me. Now, 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.960 just start loving yourself and putting yourself out there if 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.560 you believe ag ism or fear of aging starts at 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.400 which is insane to me looking at that number as 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.760 a sixty two year old woman. How do we flip 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.720 the script? How do we say, hey, you can lead 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.360 a long, productive, visible life for many, many, many many years. 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.520 It's not all downhill from here. You, as important as 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.320 your presence is on social media, you alone cannot change 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.760 the narrative. So what other things need to happen when well? 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.640 I think the first thing is women my age, our 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:48.160 age still have a lot of internalized ages m because 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.840 of cultural conditioning, yes, and that they project onto other women. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.160 And so I think it's very interesting to me that 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.640 again early on, the people that really promoted me, the 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.960 people that made me very public, the people that hire me, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.280 the people that pay me, are all young. It's not 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.720 women my age. For me, I've always been inspired by 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.800 young people. And maybe that's because I'm the oldest of 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:23.040 six children. That started it. I'm a professor, and even 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.920 in my practice as a social worker, I worked with 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.920 young people and they always push you to keep relevant, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.680 to keep moving. I think that in every situation, if 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.600 you look hard enough, there's a little note of power, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.679 which is what I've found in social media. You know, 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:46.440 social media can be used to have negative effects for women, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.760 and social media can have very positive effects. And so 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.480 I always asked myself when I'm going to post, what 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.760 are women going to see or think or how am 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.199 I going to make them feel when I put it's 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.680 this picture? And so I'm very aware that I have 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:08.959 a responsibility about this, but I also feel that this 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.800 is not a project for older people. That we need 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:20.480 to engage all ages into disrupting the story of aging, 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.560 and we really better do it soon, because by there's 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.120 going to be way more people over the age of 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.640 sixty then there is under the age of five. And 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:39.400 so I think it's not just a social justice issue, 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.880 but now it's a mental and physical health issue. And 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.240 I think in terms of getting the message out, what 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.440 I've learned from being a professor is you can't lecture 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:55.719 people and you can't the victim either. You can't exactly, 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.959 so I never play the victim about it. Every single phone, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.560 Oh I put out I have this expression on my 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.040 face like I have along hair. Look at me. In 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.560 my personal life, I'm actually kind of I'm more of 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.079 a Shire person, and so that this is like your 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:17.319 alter ego coming out, as it is my alter ego 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.000 always came out in the classroom too. I'm a very 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.480 performative person, and when people ask me what do I 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.400 think about age, I basically say, look at my photos. 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.480 I'm performing it. I don't need to talk about it. 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.880 I am showing a different way to think about aging. 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.960 I'm doing it visually instead of giving you a lecture 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.400 about oppression in this and that. And it's almost a 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.720 subconscious message in some ways, right under the guise of fashion, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:55.000 you're really communicating an incredibly important message. People just may 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.760 not realize it. Right exactly. I was on a morning 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.839 as a guest not too long ago, and they posted 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.080 me talking and one of the comments was, wow, she 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.319 looks old. What would you have said to that person? 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.840 I am old, That's what I did say. Good for you. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.160 I now think I should have said, well, i am older, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.480 and I'm lucky I've gotten here right. I mean that's 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.560 the other side of the client. The other alternative is 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.560 you're not here anymore, right, And I think about that 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.079 because my husband died at forty two exactly, so every 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.760 year I'm able to be here is precious to me, 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:38.120 that's right. And I think there's so many advances now 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.080 in medicine and technology that we are going to live 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.439 a higher quality of life much longer. And so these 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.240 old stories of you're going to stop caring about what 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:56.640 you wear, you're gonna go play bingo, or even that 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.440 you're going to retire, right right. I have been last 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.920 with good health, and if this continues, I could do 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:09.560 this for another twenty years. My mother's ninety four. I 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.640 want those years to be exciting. I want to keep learning. 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:18.320 I think I have something to offer, and a lot 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.439 of people seem to think I do. I just want 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:27.080 to kiss you right now. I also had a chance 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.640 to talk to another headline grabbing fashionist of a certain age, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.760 model Joannie Johnson, who's sixty seven and has walked the 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.719 runway for many top designers. She was even cast by 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.800 Rihanna to appear in a campaign for her new fenty 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.280 fashion line. She talked to me about representing women who 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:49.679 are not twenty two in an industry often fixated on youth. 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:54.839 I think that the opportunities have become more available to 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.920 women of a certain age. It's not just here in 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.679 the United States, but it's also happening in Europe and Asia. 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:06.040 Women of a certain age being taken more seriously. You know, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.760 it's also about they are some of the top consumers, 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.280 so they do make a difference, and the responses that 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.160 the media is getting from those people of a certain 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:23.960 age saying finally, I see myself is also having an impact. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.560 Len agrees that things are starting to change, and ironically 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.439 it's younger people who are paving the way. If you 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.360 look at who is asking older women to walk in 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:40.080 their shows, it's young designers. It is not the gucciese. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:45.719 It is not the channels. It's Christian Sarriano had made 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:51.800 Musk Joanni has walked for a lot of independent designers. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:57.319 I myself just had a fun time walking for Kate Spade. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.680 But I think younger people are realizing the importance of 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:05.000 representation overall. But I think that is actually permeated through 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:09.600 the youth culture. The importance of diversity and inclusion and 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.360 they're happily including people who are older. That's that equation, 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.000 and I think that if I'm going to put on 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:21.920 my social welfare social justice had here is that one 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.640 of the things when you have privileged in a system, 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:31.480 which you know, we as white people have privilege in 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:36.000 this system, youth have privilege and fashion. And so when 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.120 you have privilege, if you want to do the right thing, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.120 you become an ally and you use your privilege to 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.520 advance the cause of other people. And so that's what 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:51.080 I've felt young people have done for me in particular, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:56.840 is they have been an ally in promoting older people 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:02.000 to be part of this diversement. You're so inspiring. What 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:06.360 would you tell women and even men, honestly, because I 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.680 think they're the victims of these attitudes as well, not 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:14.440 as much, right, but what would you tell them about 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.480 aging and about helping their outlook when it comes to 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:23.160 getting older. So my own experience, and I'm not gonna lie, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.600 is that when I first started to age, I was 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:30.000 not happy about the impact. I actually came to this 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:36.360 realization it's inevitable. There's not anything you can do to 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.120 intervene in this process. And actually, if we want to 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.720 be honest, It's been happening since the day were born. 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.200 One of the things that I think was very helpful 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.080 to me was because I was always around young people, 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.000 I was able to remain relevant when it came to 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:59.160 things like technology, um popular culture. Yes, I was able 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:05.080 to use this new kind of culture for my benefit 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.280 because I didn't reject it. And I think that's a 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.040 habit that we sometimes have as older people, because we're 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.440 comfortable in our own zones. That's right, And so in 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:21.320 this new media, I can still address issues that are 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.800 really important to me. I can do it in a 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:28.160 way that I'm not like turning people off. It's very engaging. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.680 And so you're going direct to consumer, as they say, 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:38.600 exactly exactly, disintermediator, Lynn, And for me, you're not an 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:43.040 accidental icon. You're just an icon. And what can I say? 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.240 I think you rock, Lynn, Thank you, thank you so much. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.920 Coming up, anti agism warrior Ashton apple White debunked some 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.840 of the biggest myths about getting older. It doesn't make 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.440 sense to go through life pretending that something that is 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.680 happening to you every day is not going to happen 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.440 to you. That fear is bad for us that fear 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.359 keeps us from investing in our own care and our 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:12.000 own development across our lifespan, and no discrimination is good 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:26.000 for society. Ashton apple White is an activist, influencer, and writer. 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.600 She's also made Fortunes forty over forty list and is 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.680 the author of This Chair Rocks, a manifesto against ages. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.359 UM let's talk about the U Curve of happiness. Where 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.840 did that come from? How did they discover it? And 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.600 is it legitimate? If you sound like my mother in 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.120 law who would never say she said that you curve, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.680 I'm not buying it. Um google it. It is one 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.960 of the best substantiated data sets out there. There is 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:59.040 a whole emerging field of social science called happiness studies, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.719 so one of them could give you a more scholarly 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.000 answer than I. But I can tell you that I 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.439 was plenty skeptical about it, and that it has been 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.719 borne out by dozens of studies in the US and 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.840 around the world. For those of you who may not 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.119 know what Ashton is talking about. In a nutshell, the 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.600 U curve of happiness shows that people are happiest at 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.000 the beginning and end of their lives, but less so 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.960 in the middle, which could explain why so many of 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.040 us have a midlife crisis. So if we're happier as 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:36.879 we age, and if we're living more independently as we age, 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.600 then why is there so much ages um? To put 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.040 it succinctly, if aging is framed as a problem, we 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.480 can be persuaded to buy things to fix it. People 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.880 make money off those things. No one makes money off satisfaction. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.440 So we have a huge lesson here. In the body 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.879 acceptance movement, you know when once you learn that the 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.119 fact that your thighs rubbed together is not the worst 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.240 problem ever to affect mankind, you stop spending money and 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.639 time on self loathing. Agism is rooted in denial of 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.440 the fact that we're going to get older. I don't 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.080 think self loathing is too strong a term to use 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.840 about seeing these natural transitions as um as awful as 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.760 your own personal problem. And in the bigger sense, agism 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.080 is a prejudice. It's stereotyping and discrimination on the basis 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.680 of age. Agism is great for companies because they can 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.399 pitt supposedly expensive older workers against younger workers, who can 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.960 be exploited because they don't have families to support yet right, 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.920 We need to join forces old and young. Don't fall 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.800 for any old versus young rhetoric. Any time you make 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.520 a judgment that someone couldn't isn't possibly old enough to 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:48.800 know what they're doing or to tell you what to do, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:54.040 that's agism too. So why is it still socially acceptable? 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.719 You know, it seems to me sexism is being addressed, 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.399 and racism is being addressed, certainly not solved, but at 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.960 least talked about. Forget there, and this is an ism 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.560 that nobody really really talks about, do they. I do, 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.880 and I will say in a way that I don't 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.160 think is delusional, that this really is changing. I mean 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.560 ten years ago when I started on this, I was 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.640 telling people what agism is and why it's a problem. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.359 I just criss crossed the country on a book tour, 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.400 and people were coming to me and saying, how can 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.959 I be pro aging anti ageism in my work, in 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.960 my program, in my built environment. We are moving from 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.520 theory to practice. What has propelled that change? I'm not sure. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.000 Perhaps it's the baby boom. I am dead center born 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.880 in ninety two, you know, finally acknowledging it's true that 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.560 we are aging differently than our parents did, and our 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.520 grandparents certainly. But guess what, I'm still going to get old. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.760 There's also a lot of denial on the part of 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.719 baby Boom. We're different, We're exceptional. Sixty is the new thirty. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.679 That kind of sixty is the new six. The it 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.719 is different from what sixty used to be. But every 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:08.959 time we aspire to be younger, we deny all the 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.600 richness that our years have brought us, all that the 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.960 aches and pains too. Again, it's double edged. I once 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.800 wrote a really cranky blog post. If aging is so awful, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.720 how come no one actually wants to be any younger? 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.320 People's faces do just what yours just did. That there's 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.600 like this moment of wait that sounds great, Oh wait, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.200 because you don't get to take your present day consciousness 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.760 back with you. Well, I'd still want to do it. 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.840 You'd erase the clock, you'd go back to being who 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.000 you are at seventeen or whatever. Age. Well, how about 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.639 thirty five? But you don't get anything that you've learned 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:46.879 or done or been since you were thirty five. You 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.480 have to read about forty have about forty You tell me, no, 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.960 I'm just going to have my children would still be alive, 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.199 and I'd look a hell of a lot better. Is 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.880 that wrong? There is no right or wrong. We each 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.919 have to do this in our own way. You know. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:06.840 I have had women come up and say, look, I've 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.000 had botox, I have plastic surgery. Whatever. If I didn't 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.879 dye my hair, I would lose my job. I wish 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.280 I would thought that she was exaggerating. I'm sure she's 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:19.760 not no judgment around any of this, But the habit 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.399 of looking in the mirror and going what the hell happened, 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:28.480 which we all do, is deeply damaging because if you 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.880 think about all the things that did happen and how 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:35.560 fantastic they were, just as a thought experiment, why shouldn't 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:37.119 we look in the mirror and go cut what an 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.159 amazing life I've had, rather than g I wish I 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.840 could afford a facelift. That's swimming upstream against all these 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:48.119 societal messages. So how do you change society? Is it 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:52.440 one person at a time telling herself that she's more 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:57.000 than or can we collectively do anything about this? Both 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:01.359 and which, of course, you know, the consciousness raising is 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.960 the tool that catalyzed the women's movement, and it's sort 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.160 of an old fashioned word, but I think it's still powerful. 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.000 What happened is that women came together and compared notes 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.719 and realize that what they had been thinking of as 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:16.520 personal problems. You know, their children weren't blond enough, their 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:18.920 boops weren't big enough, their boss was patting them on 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:21.760 the butt, they couldn't even get a job. We're not 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:26.720 personal problems. They were widely shared political problems that required 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.560 collective action. And that is exactly what we need to 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.879 do with aging. It is the work of a lifetime. 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.000 It is a collective task. But that's why I think 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.240 if I have one ask, I have a lot of them. 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.800 But it would be for women to come together in 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:47.439 consciousness raising groups. Let's talk about the implicit bias we 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:53.240 all have and how agism really creeps into our conversation 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:55.919 in a way that we don't even realize. I wouldn't 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:58.119 even say it creeps in. It's they're sitting on the sofa. 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.600 One good sort of little litmus test for yourself is 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.240 to think about how you use the words old and young. 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:07.240 You know, I hear people say I don't feel old. 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.879 What they really mean is I don't feel invisible. I 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:14.560 don't feel useless, I don't feel incompetent. We can feel 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.080 those things at any age. Right, That's how I felt 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:20.200 at thirteen, for sure. Right. But or I feel young 0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:25.159 means I feel energetic, I feel sexy, I feel you know, powerful. 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:28.600 You can feel those things at any age. So try 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.800 and step back from using old as placeholder for in 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:35.720 certain decrepit awful thing, and young as the positive thing, 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.480 because those are not attributes that are tied to our age. 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:42.879 Not for a minute, let are other examples a senior moment. 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:48.040 Senior moment is bad, of course, because any prophecy about 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:52.200 decline cognitive in particular is terrifying. It's not that our 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.520 fears of Alzheimer's are not, you know, legitimate. It's a 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:59.880 terrifying disease. But no one knows that rates of Alzheimer's 0:24:59.880 --> 0:25:03.680 are declining fast, and that the odds of you or 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:07.159 I or anyone listening to this of getting Alzheimer's have 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:09.720 gotten lower and lower, and that people are being diagnosed 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.280 at later ages. What about the term for your age, 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.760 You have some definite views on that. You look great 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.800 for your age. Thank you. First of all, speaking of habits, 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:23.240 try and bite that thank you before it gets out 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.320 of your mouth. It's really hard not to feel complimented. 0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:31.000 But when you accept that compliment, it's ages in the 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:35.000 most fundamental way, because it's reinforcing the idea that younger 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:37.960 is better. And that's really the heart of the beast. Right, 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:41.879 Younger is sometimes better, older sometimes better. Right, But this 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:45.159 idea that old is bad and young is good. You 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:50.440 can also only accept the compliment at the expense of 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:52.840 everyone else your age who doesn't look quite as good 0:25:52.880 --> 0:25:56.080 as you. And that's not a recipe for social change 0:25:56.240 --> 0:26:00.359 or solidarity, right, And the real question is why someone 0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.320