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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It is Monday, July fourteenth. Guess what,

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. I don't know

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Speaker 2: about you, guys. I'm feeling so mad about this Epstein mess.

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Speaker 2: It just seems to never end. And again, we do

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Speaker 2: not seal lists to protect justice. We seal lists to

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Speaker 2: protect power. And we're going to get knee deep into

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Speaker 2: the new developments in that case that we were following

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Speaker 2: so closely last night. Also some new developments in the

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Speaker 2: Idaho student murders. Have a hearing this week. In another

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Speaker 2: next week, Courtney's going to fill us in a bit

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Speaker 2: more about that. And Karen Reid, who as we all know,

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Speaker 2: was not guilty in her second trial last month. She

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Speaker 2: has scored herself a book deal, so more details on that.

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Speaker 2: And we're also going to dig into a case kind

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Speaker 2: of for the first time about a potential serial killer

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Speaker 2: in Maine, and that one comes straight from esther our

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Speaker 2: Crime crew listener, thank you for sharing your info, and

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Speaker 2: we're about to dig in Tier one. I'm Stephanie Lai

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Speaker 2: Decker and i head up Katie Studios where we make

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Speaker 2: true crime podcasts and documentaries and I get to do

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Speaker 2: that with Courtney Armstrong and body move in here every

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Speaker 2: night and we want to hear from you eight eight

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Speaker 2: eight three one crime, So please jump in join the conversation,

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Speaker 2: or you could always hit us up on our socials

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Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram, or

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Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. And also if you

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Speaker 2: want to leave us a talkback, which is kind of

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Speaker 2: like a voice memo, all you have to do is

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Speaker 2: download the iHeart app for free and in the top

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Speaker 2: right hand corner you push this button leave us a

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Speaker 2: message and boom, you are on the show.

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Speaker 3: So I won't belabor. In fact, we have a talk

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Speaker 3: back right now.

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Speaker 4: Hey, this is Stephanie from Alabama. I just want to

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Speaker 4: say that I absolutely love the show. So I have

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Speaker 4: a question in relation to Brian Koberger. Do you think

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Speaker 4: that the reason that his plea deal was changed so

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Speaker 4: abruptly was because the media was shifting their focus from

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Speaker 4: him to the things that were going on such as

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Speaker 4: the politician shootings with Bolter and then the Travis Decker manhunt.

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Speaker 5: What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 2: That is an interesting perspective and an interesting point. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I totally see where you're coming from on that one, Boddy,

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Speaker 2: what do you think?

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Speaker 3: It is interesting? But I don't think that those other

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Speaker 3: crimes and the media focusing attention on those crimes have

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Speaker 3: anything to do with the plea deal. The trial is

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Speaker 3: getting ready to start, the judge gave fair warning that

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Speaker 3: the last best offer was to be expected and at

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Speaker 3: the you know, at the end of June, early July,

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Speaker 3: and so the deadline was fast approaching, and they hit

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Speaker 3: it right at the deadline, hours before gas before right,

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Speaker 3: And I mean, let's be real, I think that even

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Speaker 3: though like things are in the media, like Travis Decker,

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Speaker 3: I mean, those things are still going to be in

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Speaker 3: the media, But the Coburger trial would have one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent taken over crime news once it started. So I

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily think media attention anything to do with it.

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Speaker 3: I think it was just the normal process, and the

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Speaker 3: deadline was approaching, you know, I just think it's the

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Speaker 3: normal process.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, By the way, Stephanie, great name and great question

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Speaker 6: and also particularly salient question given all of the what's news,

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Speaker 6: what's real that's going on in the universe right now,

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Speaker 6: So well timed, but I will double down on Body,

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Speaker 6: and I think it simply had to do with the

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Speaker 6: timeline that already was stipulated and Brian Cooberger, he was

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Speaker 6: not winning anything that his defense was putting forth.

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Speaker 3: Nothing was getting pushed.

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Speaker 6: They weren't accepting the alternate perpetrators, and the.

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Speaker 3: Death penalty was not getting removed. They denied that order.

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Speaker 3: There were so many emotions that were getting denied, and

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Speaker 3: you know, quite honestly, not his favorite. His backup was

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Speaker 3: literally up against the wall, and he either accepted it

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Speaker 3: and they went to trial and rolled dice or take

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Speaker 3: the deal. And family members of the victims have continued

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Speaker 3: to come out with what they think about this plea deal, which,

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Speaker 3: as Body just said, takes off the death penalty for

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Speaker 3: murdering the four University of Idaho students. So Xanna Kernodle's mother,

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Speaker 3: she's broken her silence, and she acknowledged that she was

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Speaker 3: at first upset, and she said, I felt like I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't get any more any answers. But now I see

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Speaker 3: that the Lord had his hand in it. And it

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Speaker 3: turns out that she was actually with a group of

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Speaker 3: really close friends from church when she heard it, and

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Speaker 3: she felt that that was kind of a sign that

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Speaker 3: that was where she needed to be. So that is

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Speaker 3: where Xana Kernodle's mother falls. Separately, Xanna Kernodle's father. He

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Speaker 3: said he does disagree with the deal because it does

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Speaker 3: not require Coburger to give.

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Speaker 6: Any ann or allocate am I saying.

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Speaker 2: That, Yeah, the allocation, I could not agree more. It's

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Speaker 2: so upsetting to me. Also, again, I'm a little teed

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Speaker 2: up tonight, so I apologize in advance, but yeah, like,

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Speaker 2: how do you get a plea deal as a killer

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Speaker 2: who murdered four completely innocent people without having to give

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Speaker 2: any details as to why that night? Like what can

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Speaker 2: we learn from this? Why that night? What was the

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Speaker 2: inciting incident in his personal life? Not suggesting there was

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Speaker 2: one with the victims, but.

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Speaker 3: Like why that night? Why that morning?

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Speaker 2: I should say, it just upsets me that this guy

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Speaker 2: still calls the shots. And I'm hoping that on this

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Speaker 2: hearing coming up this week, we get a little indication

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Speaker 2: that that's not the case, because right now it feels

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Speaker 2: like where Brian Coberger is sitting, he's sort of the

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Speaker 2: man who gets to kind of get his way and

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Speaker 2: decide who lives, who dies, and who hears what or doesn't.

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Speaker 3: And it's upsetting. And I think this is going to

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Speaker 3: sound little maybe wild, but I think he kind of

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Speaker 3: maybe enjoys the idea of the parents through this, and

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Speaker 3: that's you know, and that's one of the things. Like

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Speaker 3: the Chapins aren't going to the sentencing, and I kind

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Speaker 3: of I just have so much respect for all the family.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they've battled this very well, every single member,

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Speaker 3: but the Chapins man, they just they have so much

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Speaker 3: grace and they're so smart. They're just like, we're not

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Speaker 3: going to give him the satisfaction. And I really respect that,

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Speaker 3: I really do. I kind of just get the feeling

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Speaker 3: that he likes the idea that he's still inflicting some

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Speaker 3: kind of feelings onto people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like a narcissistic psychotic tendency where there's

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Speaker 2: this energy that he's still being fed, like the beast

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Speaker 2: is being fed.

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Speaker 3: Right. I totally agree he didn't really make any impressions

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Speaker 3: on people otherwise, I just feel like they're taking their

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Speaker 3: power back by not letting Brian Coberger get to them.

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Speaker 3: Does that make sense? It does, Yeah, it does make sense.

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Speaker 6: And I still think that Prosecutor Bill Thompson will need

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Speaker 6: to answer to this. May not be the right phrasing,

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Speaker 6: but I think he needs to answer to this because

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Speaker 6: it does.

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Speaker 3: See, it's the worst deal in history. If there's no

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Speaker 3: allocution or you know, some kind of unpack of why

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Speaker 3: this happened, it's the worst deal in history.

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Speaker 6: That's right, this is true crime. Tonight, we are on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 6: I'm Courtney Armstrong here with Body Movin and Stephanie Leidecker.

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Speaker 6: We were just talking about the Idaho college murder case

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Speaker 6: and we are going to be continuing on with headlines.

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Speaker 6: But listen, we want to hear from you. Give us

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Speaker 6: a call. We're at eighty eight three one crime or

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Speaker 6: hit us on the talkbacks. Body, what else in the news? Epstein, Epstein, Epstein,

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Speaker 6: epstation can't take it?

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Speaker 3: You know, you're a fish. I am, I'm you know.

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Speaker 3: I never followed this. It just I know it's crime,

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Speaker 3: and obviously when he's in prison, right, it's obviously a crime.

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Speaker 3: It just wasn't like, I think we all have different

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Speaker 3: interests when it comes to crime, you know, and I'm

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Speaker 3: usually kind of on the murder side of things, you know,

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Speaker 3: and this wasn't that, And I just had so many

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Speaker 3: other things on my plate that it just never But

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Speaker 3: now I'm on board, you know. Now I'm with you, Stephanie,

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Speaker 3: I'm with you. So Delaine Maxwell, the Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice

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Speaker 3: in all the sex trafficking and you know, bad deeds,

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Speaker 3: her hideout hits the market. Her one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: six acre New Hampshire property where she was arrested in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty has been for sale for two point five

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Speaker 3: million dollars, which is, you know, really a lot higher

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Speaker 3: than the one point one million purchase price back in

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Speaker 3: December of twenty nineteen. She purchased the estate under the

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Speaker 3: alias Janet Marshall and through an LLC linked her and

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Speaker 3: then partners thought organ Stone. I got to get into this.

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Speaker 3: Were they not together? Were no?

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Speaker 2: They had like divorced And by the way, this also

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Speaker 2: makes me crazy. So Gilaine Maxwell, Yeah, she's obviously serving

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Speaker 2: a sentence behind bars and now she's going to make

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Speaker 2: a little cash on this house. But she was married,

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Speaker 2: and we don't really know much of him. My assertion

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Speaker 2: is that they were no longer together and had divorced,

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Speaker 2: but I would like to know more about that, if

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Speaker 2: anybody listening has any more details.

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Speaker 3: There is public uncertainty on who's going to profit from this,

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Speaker 3: whether it's going to go to her legal defense or

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Speaker 3: be allocated to her victims, because she can't profit.

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Speaker 2: And you and I were just talking about this ps

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Speaker 2: you know, just in the parallel universe that I feel

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Speaker 2: like we all find ourselves in. She's like trying to

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Speaker 2: speak and go ahead, fill us in because it so

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Speaker 2: all seems too connected.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, I'm on board now, right, So I'm reading all

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Speaker 3: about it today and she is appealing her conviction and

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Speaker 3: it's all the way to the Supreme Court. It was

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Speaker 3: denied at the lower courts, but it made it to

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court. Well, the DOJ had to respond by today,

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Speaker 3: which is crazy. Coincidence, I mean, is it? Is it?

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Speaker 3: I don't know?

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Speaker 6: Is it?

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Speaker 2: There's no coincidences, And this is again not political. I

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Speaker 2: find myself in a posthetic spot that I'm right in the

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Speaker 2: middle of not knowing anything and who to trust in anyone,

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Speaker 2: and it's so upsetting. So, I mean, all hundreds of

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Speaker 2: girls were sexually abused underage.

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Speaker 3: It is a ring.

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Speaker 2: We know this arguably maybe the largest ring in the world.

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Speaker 2: How are we not getting this information? And Gilaine Maxwell

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Speaker 2: is going to get her household from twenty something just well,

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Speaker 2: it's the whole Glaine thing.

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Speaker 3: So apparently the Epstein pled Okay, so he took a

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Speaker 3: plea deal, and part of that plea deal was that

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Speaker 3: none of his co conspirators would be prosecuted. Okay, that's

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Speaker 3: part of the deal. Well, Glaine Maxwell is been prosecuted.

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Speaker 3: Her argument to the courts is like, what am I

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Speaker 3: doing here? I thought the plea deal said that nobody

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Speaker 3: was going to else was going to be prosecuted. So

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Speaker 3: that's kind of like a really like lame unpack of

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Speaker 3: her argument.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but she's been behind bars for many years now,

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Speaker 2: I know the fact that it suddenly is a hot

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Speaker 2: ticket item, then her no docket is I think interesting.

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Speaker 3: Would love to hear everybody's opinion.

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Speaker 2: Also, the fact that she's, you know, according to the

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Speaker 2: recent developments by you know, Pam Bondy, et cetera, that

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Speaker 2: you know she's serving time for I guess a crime

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Speaker 2: that didn't exist, given that there's no real list. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course it's a woman that's serving the time for

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Speaker 2: dirty deeds done by gentlemen of power.

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Speaker 6: Well, she had her hands were plenty.

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Speaker 2: Well, and she should serve the time, and like, we

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Speaker 2: should let this rest and let her rot behind bars.

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Speaker 2: And I'm all for it, you know, But it just

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Speaker 2: seems like the thing that is slipping through the cracks

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Speaker 2: and is like getting lost in the sauce in the

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Speaker 2: media is that there were two hundred plus young curls.

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Speaker 3: Well, just because there's no client list doesn't mean there

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Speaker 3: weren't clients though, right, Like, yeah, listen, if I'm doing

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Speaker 3: illegal things, and I'm not, but if I were to

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Speaker 3: be doing legal things, I'm not going to keep track

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Speaker 3: of it. I'm not going to have a list of

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Speaker 3: like my customers. I'm going to have them in my head.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you're using it as a revenge tool and

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Speaker 2: using it as blackmail and high profile, you don't know

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Speaker 2: why scenarios allegedly allegedly allegedly, then you know what, you

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Speaker 2: might have a list.

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Speaker 3: You might but we don't know that that's what's happening.

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Speaker 3: We think that's what's happening. I mean, I'm on board

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Speaker 3: with you with that. I think it is very possible

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Speaker 3: that he was like this double agent, you know that

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Speaker 3: was I feel, oh yeah, and we're all frustrated.

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Speaker 6: So does everybody. It is the actual definition. I do

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Speaker 6: think it's an overused word, but it is perfectly applied

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Speaker 6: to this.

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Speaker 3: Because it's literally something.

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Speaker 6: You see the light flashing, Bondie saying, I have the list,

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Speaker 6: It's on my desk, cut to no, it's not there.

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Speaker 6: But listen, everyone stick around. When we come back, we're

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Speaker 6: going to be diving back into Epstein.

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Speaker 3: There is still a lot to unpack.

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Speaker 6: There's a lot doing with the fallout of the Karen

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Speaker 6: read trial, and there's the saga of Turtle Boy, which

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Speaker 6: was kind of the story within the story of the

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Speaker 6: Karen Reid story. Keep it here on True Crime Tonight

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Speaker 6: eight at eight three One Crime.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and the phones are buzzing.

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Speaker 2: So first up, we have a caller, Hi, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show. Hi, Glenn, Yes, tell us everything Glenn, I.

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Speaker 7: Think that's great. I'm seventy six years old and I'm

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Speaker 7: doing fine, excellent, and.

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Speaker 3: We're glad you called. Thank you for calling. What's your question?

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Speaker 7: Yes, I think the reason the Epstein files are not

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Speaker 7: going to be distributed because Trump's on them. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 7: President Trump is on them, and that's why they're never

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Speaker 7: going to be revealed.

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Speaker 2: Why would he say he was going to So this

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Speaker 2: is where I get so nuts, Glenn, and ladies please

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Speaker 2: jump in, because let's be honest, right, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of very high profile people, whether it's our current president

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Speaker 2: or previous president's.

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Speaker 3: You know, it seems like that list might have been long.

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Speaker 2: And why would he say he was going to release

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Speaker 2: it knowing full well that he was possibly on it.

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Speaker 2: We've seen so many photographs of them all together. Clearly,

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Speaker 2: just beaucause you're photograph doesn't mean you're a pedophile. But still,

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Speaker 2: I just feel like that's so confusing, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know that I disagree with you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for the call, Glenn, And I want to

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Speaker 3: say it's probably because he was never planning on releasing

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Speaker 3: it was never going to happen. I don't believe he

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Speaker 3: was ever going to listen. Presidents lie to us all

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Speaker 3: the time. I mean not just President Trump, but all

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Speaker 3: of them. How many times have we been like he

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Speaker 3: you literally just said this five minutes ago, and now

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Speaker 3: you're saying you didn't. I mean all the time. And

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Speaker 3: I just think it was never going to get released.

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Speaker 3: Biden wasn't never going to release it, true Trump, even

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Speaker 3: though he ran on it and said I'm going to

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Speaker 3: release it, because Biden's been sitting on it was is

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Speaker 3: never going to happen.

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Speaker 6: And the running on the running on things not an

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Speaker 6: exact parallel. But listen, politicians do they go for election

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Speaker 6: in poetry and then they govern in prose.

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Speaker 2: Right, So that said poetic Courtney, I'm strong, arm strong, listen.

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Speaker 3: But Courtney and I are addicted to the West Way. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 3: so we know all the quotes.

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Speaker 6: Okay, but it is when you're going for election, you say,

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Speaker 6: and to Body's point, it's every politician known to man,

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Speaker 6: I am going to say exactly what you want to

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Speaker 6: hear in order to get you where I need you

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Speaker 6: to be, and then things change. So I firmly agreed

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Speaker 6: he had no universe.

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Speaker 3: He was going to open this.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask, though, are we all going to agree

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Speaker 2: in this most tenuous time in my life at least

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Speaker 2: and most of our lives, right that the world's gone nuts.

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Speaker 2: Everything seems upside down. There's floods, there's fires, the planes

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Speaker 2: are falling out of the sky. And again, this is

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Speaker 2: not a political show. In order we even try to,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't stand a day. I believe in love, in

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Speaker 2: peace and unity, and that's kind of my personal goal.

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Speaker 2: But man, is it upsetting that there's just no island

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Speaker 2: to hold on to. Pu not intended, but like maybe

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Speaker 2: we all collectively on every side of it, can finally

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Speaker 2: say like enough is enough.

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Speaker 3: Let's call it something else other than politics.

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Speaker 2: Let's call it, you know, cohesiveness or I'm the cohesive president.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but there is just.

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Speaker 2: Like the divide is not helping and the lies are enough.

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Speaker 3: But I think that this specific subject, I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's you know, Republican versus Democrat. I think because that's

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Speaker 3: what they were like playing against each other. But I

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Speaker 3: think like the Epstein thing, though, I think all of

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Speaker 3: us are upset, like.

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Speaker 2: Now, all of us absolutely, maybe for the first time,

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Speaker 2: we could all agree on this.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's like what brings country.

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Speaker 6: Maybe this is the island that we hold on to,

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Speaker 6: Stephanie Epstein's island.

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Speaker 3: I think we have a talk.

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Speaker 8: Back ay true crime tonight. I just wanted to say that.

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Speaker 8: I think it's crazy how people thought Trump was going

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Speaker 8: to release the Epstein list when in his first term

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Speaker 8: he had Alex Acosta and his cabinet and that's the

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Speaker 8: guy who gave Jeffrey Epstein his plea deal back in

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Speaker 8: two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: What and he.

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Speaker 8: Also had Alan Drschowitz as his impeachment lawyer, who was

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Speaker 8: obviously Epstein's defense lawyer. So what kind of forward eachest

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Speaker 8: did these people think Trump was playing here?

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Speaker 3: Do we have the smartest listeners?

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Speaker 2: You know, that's a great Did you notice I talk

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Speaker 2: about connecting those dots and you know earlier, thank you

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Speaker 2: Glenn for your call too. But that's very complicated and

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Speaker 2: very accurate. Well, and you noticed he didn't leave his

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Speaker 2: name for his own safety, right?

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Speaker 3: Yea off this show real time? No, but he makes

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Speaker 3: it a point, right? And isn't it interesting the men

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Speaker 3: call for Epstein.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because I find that really refreshing, I know,

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Speaker 2: because a woman, Yeah, it feels like nobody cares about

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Speaker 2: the victims, and I know we all do say we

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Speaker 2: care about sex trafficking ooh, and like underage victims ooh,

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Speaker 2: but it's so gross and hideous. And to know that,

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Speaker 2: like yeah, that you know, men are beginning to rally

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Speaker 2: with everybody and like enough is enough, Like we can

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Speaker 2: do better, we can do better.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: He makes a great point too about you know Dershowitz,

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Speaker 3: and it's all intertwined and it's very can we so

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Speaker 3: go ahead of court?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, Oh, I was gonna say to make sure I

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Speaker 2: understood it fully, and like let's really break that down.

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Speaker 6: So one more thing. And I really do love this

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Speaker 6: talk back as well. So been reading up on Dershwitz

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Speaker 6: today and yeah, he has said point blank, this was

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Speaker 6: back in March. I know the names of the individuals.

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Speaker 6: I know why are they're being suppressed. I know who's

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Speaker 6: suppressing them, but I'm bound by confidentiality from a judge

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Speaker 6: and the cases and I can't disclose. But I know

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Speaker 6: the names of the people whose files are being suppressed

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Speaker 6: in order to protect them.

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Speaker 3: And let me ask you. So.

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Speaker 2: He was the defense attorney of Epstein back when he

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Speaker 2: was brought up on his initial charges in West Palm Beach.

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Speaker 3: Am I getting that correct or not correct?

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Speaker 6: No, he was a little but not the puppet strings.

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Speaker 6: But he was not barred. He could not practice law

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Speaker 6: in Florida.

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Speaker 3: Oh right. He helped set.

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Speaker 6: Up the entire legal team and he was also, wasn't he,

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Speaker 6: like Trump, one of Trump's impeachment lawyers?

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Speaker 3: Yes? I didn't realize that. Yes, now Acosta, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Let's go there, because I want to make sure I'm

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Speaker 2: tracking this correctly.

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Speaker 3: I don't really understand his involvement. He was the former

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Speaker 3: secretary of Labor. How does he fit into this? He

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Speaker 3: was what I.

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Speaker 2: Think he signed off on the plea deal initially and maybeary.

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Speaker 3: Of labor signing off on a plea deal? Was he

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Speaker 3: something else at the time? Great question? A former member.

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Speaker 3: I wish our talk back would call us right back?

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Speaker 2: There was something? Was there a connection to Bill Clinton

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Speaker 2: in this one? Because edge of.

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Speaker 6: My seat, I have another one here? Okay, So this

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Speaker 6: was a quick google because I did not know the answer.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 6: It's a lot to look into Alex Acosta. So, yes,

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Speaker 6: he was the former Labor secretary. However it was what

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Speaker 6: he was a US attorney in Florida. Oh, that's when

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Speaker 6: cave sex trafficker Epstein a non prosecution agreement, which is.

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Speaker 3: What Delanne maxwell is the best.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so the non prosecution agreement that was given by

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Speaker 2: Acosta back in the day basically says he gets away

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Speaker 2: with it and then he goes on Jeffrey Epstein to

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Speaker 2: go traffic more and hundreds more women after that, when

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Speaker 2: everyone knows full well that he had already been charged

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Speaker 2: on sex crimes with underage girls.

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Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 8: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Uh, oh my god, it's so gross. Do we think

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Speaker 3: this list ever existed? Like for real?

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Speaker 2: Of course everyone's talking about this idea.

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Speaker 3: I'm new to this. I'm new to this. You gotta

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Speaker 3: give me some grace.

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Speaker 6: And I have to say that, Stephanie, you asked me

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Speaker 6: earlier before we were on the air.

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Speaker 3: You're like, aren't you angry?

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Speaker 6: And I don't know if numbs the right answer, but

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Speaker 6: I in my mind, I believe in such a certainty

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Speaker 6: that sort of power corrupts an absolute corrupts absolutely. And

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Speaker 6: this is the biggest thing that I've seen to prove

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Speaker 6: that in such a way. And it's a horrible thing.

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Speaker 6: And they say it's a pessimistic look at life to your.

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Speaker 3: Point, I'm kind of numb to it. I'm just like, Eh,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't because like, yeah, I'm angry, But at the

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Speaker 3: same time, I expect it.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's like, think about it, what are we expecting?

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Speaker 2: We're just like numb to the idea that potentially very influential,

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Speaker 2: potential world leaders are having sex with underage girls as

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Speaker 2: a ring to benefit or profit worldwide is horrifying if

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Speaker 2: that's the baseline, you know, all of like the conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theories of Yesterdaear that we all used to roll our

438
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 2: eyes out. I'm like, oh, oh my god, is there

439
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: some like where is the truth in this? It's not

440
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 2: like we're talking about, oh, the Academy award was rigged,

441
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 2: or we're talking about ooh, like that person got fired

442
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 2: for you know, misspeaking. It's people make mistakes. Of course,

443
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 2: people misspeak. I do it every night, and I really

444
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: learn and try to do the right thing. This is

445
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 2: a very real crime at a very real inflection point

446
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 2: as a country, and I think we all got I'm

447
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: on a soapbox right now. I just think we all

448
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 2: you're making better and can do better, and I hope

449
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: somebody steps forward that can kind of be a shining

450
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 2: light during what seems like a really dark time. And

451
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: to know that everybody and their brother on every side

452
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 2: and every position of power has some sort of you

453
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: know two dot connection to pedophilia? Is Is this so

454
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 2: yucky that I don't even it makes me choked up?

455
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: Right now? I need a time out. Let's talk about

456
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: where's Blake Lively? Need some more lighthearted news? Right?

457
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 8: No?

458
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 3: I mean, Stephanie, we're on your side, Like no, I know,

459
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: I don't know why. It's like I just had.

460
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: The politicsmolitics, and it's like always like it also bums

461
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: me out that we're also accustomed to just being like, well,

462
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: that's politics for you. It's like politics are running our lives.

463
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 2: We all work so hard and we pay hard taxes

464
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: and life is not easy and people are really suffering

465
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: and the climate's crazy and this is crazy.

466
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 3: It's like what do we believe? You know? Is it

467
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 3: fake news? Is it real news? Is it Instagram? Is

468
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: it fake?

469
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: Are we double sourcing stuff? I listened to Fox, I

470
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: listened to CNN. I watch every possible news source I

471
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: could possibly get my hands on. I listened to Reddit,

472
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 2: you know it, just in hopes of aggregating the meat

473
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: and potatoes so that there's some middle zone. And like,

474
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 2: I'm not running for office, but I want to look

475
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 2: up to somebody.

476
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: But why do we need to have like a master's

477
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 3: degree in like comprehension to find out what the real

478
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: news is? Why do you have to go why do

479
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: you have to aggregate the news? Why are you having

480
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 3: to do that? Because it is so divided and everybody

481
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 3: has an agenda as soon as there's a mass shooting.

482
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: Oh he was a Republican. Oh he was a Democratic.

483
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 3: It's like people can't just go sit back and just

484
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 3: wait for things to come in. They have to jump

485
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 3: forward and just blame me the other side. And it's

486
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: getting old, and it's.

487
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: Getting old, and maybe I'm all collectively just like this

488
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 2: is maybe an inflection point I think it might be,

489
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 2: and listen to jump in, like, please tell me how

490
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 2: wrong I am. I get it, and you know, let's

491
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: all sort of maybe this can be a place that

492
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: we can all huddle together and share our thoughts and

493
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: you know, maybe solve some stuff and get some justice.

494
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we're going to see if we can do that.

495
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 3: So although Karen Reid might not be guilty, the journalist

496
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: who popularized her case is just starting to defend himself

497
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: from all sorts of criminal charges. We'll be diving into

498
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: the story of the controversial Turtle Boy, and later we

499
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 3: want to hear from you. Give us a call at

500
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: eight thirty one Crime. We'll be right back. Keep it

501
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 3: right here on two Prid.

502
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: Tonight, and I'm taking a deep breath trying to kind

503
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: of cool it. So we'll put a pin and all

504
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: things Epstein. But we do have some other cases that

505
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: we'll be following later in the show. This potential serial

506
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 2: killer in Maine and also this twisted, turned up hideous

507
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 2: case of the young teenager accused of killing her mom

508
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 2: and Blake Lively justin Courtney wasn't joking earlier. They'll be

509
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: back in court, or she'll be back in court at

510
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: least on Thursday, it appears, so we'll be following that

511
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: closely as well.

512
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: But first, a little bit about Karen Reid.

513
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 2: As you guys know, she was found not guilty for

514
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 2: her second trial and there seems to be some new developments.

515
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 3: What do you have for us?

516
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 6: So, yes, Karen Reid has been acquitted of any and

517
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 6: all homicide charges and her boyfriend, John O'Keefe, police officer

518
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 6: out of Massachusetts. She has been cleared of his twenty

519
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 6: twenty two death. She has landed a lucrative book deal

520
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 6: and a TV adaptation which people were speculating would be happening.

521
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 6: And here we are. And then here's where a tragedy

522
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 6: really strikes. Aside from the death of John O'Keeffe, both

523
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 6: witnesses and John O'Keefe's family members, they've been enduring harassment

524
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 6: in the aftermath of this trial. So the people who

525
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 6: were you know, the free Karen Read people in pink

526
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 6: with the signs, they need to take it down about

527
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty notches, is my opinion, because they

528
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 6: are at this point just harassing the family of a

529
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 6: man who's dead.

530
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like how about that.

531
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: Like John O'Keeffe, victim who you know, really is at

532
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 2: the center of this lost his life. He was caring

533
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: for his deceased sister and deceased brother in law's young

534
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 2: children and has a mother who apparently, you know, Peggy o'keeff,

535
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: who we've seen in the courtroom during both trials, you know,

536
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: heart wrenched. Her son has been killed. Like there are

537
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: clowns regardless of what you see, you know, feel about

538
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: this particular trial. There are clowns outside of her house

539
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: like legitimately harassing Peggy O'Keefe and one of the two

540
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: of you where we were talking about this earlier, where

541
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: you know, it's alleged that John O'Keeffe's you know, these

542
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 2: young niece and nephew, the kids that he was raising

543
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 2: in the absence of their now deceased parents, are like

544
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: getting harassed at school. People are saying free Karen Reid

545
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: and doing a huge pylon again like this is they

546
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: kind of knock it off. It makes me again. It's upsetting,

547
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, it's like they're not involved, they're grieving, give

548
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: them any seconds.

549
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: I've been involved in discourse on true crime online discourse

550
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: for like a decade, and I have never seen people

551
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 3: be so vitriolic as I have in this case. If

552
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: you are a free Karen read person, you hate the

553
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: people who think she's guilty and vice versa. They hate

554
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 3: each other, and I mean, I've just never seen anything

555
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 3: this bad. And I will say it has trickled into

556
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: other cases, like in the true crime community, so there's

557
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 3: other cases that where people now hate each other Delphi.

558
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 3: For instance, if you are a Rick Rick Allen's guilty,

559
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: you hate the people who think he's innocent, and vice

560
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: versa Sebastian Rodgers he's a missing boy at a Tennessee.

561
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: Same thing there. I mean, there's just the hatred of

562
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: the opposing side in the discourse online is getting worse.

563
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: And I'm sure people will agree with me online that

564
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: have been also in discourse online are recognizing that it's

565
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 3: getting worse.

566
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: But to that extent, Like, I hear what you're saying,

567
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: because it's both sides of a case, right, so it's

568
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: guilty not guilty. Yeah, I think we all get a

569
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: little twisted when it becomes the victims' families who have

570
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: well no heart.

571
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: In any of this.

572
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: They just a want justice, They want some peace, They

573
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: deserve to be able to grieve. Like, why are they

574
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: getting harassed?

575
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 3: Well, in all the cases the families are getting harassed,

576
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, all the cases, IDU pomp of silly,

577
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: that's horrible.

578
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 6: I mean, I agree, and like you said, just that,

579
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 6: you know, the civility of having opposing ideas and having

580
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 6: a conversation. It can get heated or not. You can

581
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 6: disagree and not hate.

582
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially as somebody that's not involved in the crown right,

583
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: like as an onlooker or a person who enjoys the discussion.

584
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: I'm not involved in the crime, why am i? And

585
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: I'm not speaking for me personal. I'm just saying, like,

586
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: in general, getting so heated, it's getting worse.

587
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: Don't they all need a job? Everybody who's just hanging about,

588
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: you know, causing fistfights outside of any trial for that matter,

589
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: if you're not you know, there with purpose to add,

590
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like becoming a circus in some

591
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: cases as well, particularly here, And.

592
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 3: I mean I experienced it in Idaho. In Idaho, I

593
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 3: was one of the defenders of the roommates online and

594
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 3: I would be getting attacked all the time. I called

595
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: stupid and naive and lame and all kinds of things. Me,

596
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: you're the opposite of those uns.

597
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: But you're also but they're also not like gallivanting in

598
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: like you know, matching garb. And you know we saw

599
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: that at Diddy's trial. They're like, you know, squirting baby

600
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: oil all over the streets of New York City. It's like,

601
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: come on, and everybody go go. Your parents raised you better.

602
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: I don't care if who raised you, I know it

603
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: was better than this, right.

604
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 6: Well, the o Key family, they have filed a civil

605
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 6: suit against Karen Reid. It's pending and so we'll see

606
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 6: how that plays out. And you know, again there's been

607
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 6: other fallout with people, like you said at literallygue games.

608
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 6: It sounds like former detective Michael Proctor was fired. Another

609
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 6: homicide supervisor has been reassigned. And this came into conversation.

610
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 6: I'm not even quite sure why. So Hank Brennan, who

611
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 6: was a prosecutor, earned her a little over half a

612
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 6: million dollars and he acknowledged the trial was marred by

613
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 6: witness intimidation.

614
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: H what does that mean? So I thought, do you think?

615
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 2: And there was also something about one of the main witnesses,

616
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: what was her name, the one that was.

617
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: Like, oh, Kelly Dever. Yeah, you know, she took the stand.

618
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: She was speaking on behalf of her boss and the

619
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: protocol within the police department, and seemed to have a

620
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: lot of amnesia going on, And that was also being

621
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: brought into consideration because again it falls in the same category.

622
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: Listen, we all make mistake, sometimes things go a little sideways.

623
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: We're just asking for some honesty and transparency in the

624
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: eleventh hour when somebody's life is in jeopardy and they're

625
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: looking to a life sentence.

626
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 6: Well, and Kelly Dever, Karen Read's defense attorney, has formally

627
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 6: requested that she be placed on the cities. It's called

628
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 6: the Brady List, and it's flags officers with noted credibility issues.

629
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: We can't know officers with credibility issues. We just can't.

630
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: Everybody would agree with that, right, Well, I think every

631
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: department does, though, Oh my goodness, not every department.

632
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 6: No, for every politician departments. Yes, listen, this is true

633
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 6: crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong here

634
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 6: with Body Moven and Stephanie Leideker, who's taking a quick

635
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 6: breath of air, and then we'll be right back. Give

636
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 6: us a call. We're at eighty eight three one Crime.

637
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 6: We're speaking about Karen Reid and want to hear your

638
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 6: thoughts on kind of the fallout that's how since the

639
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 6: trial and Body, I think you had some more updates.

640
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm going to be talking about Turtle Boy.

641
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: So there's a whole nother arm of this case that

642
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: very kind of controversial. I mean, this is kind of

643
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 3: like a powder Keg case, right where there's all kinds

644
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: of different There's a lot of people, first of all,

645
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 3: a lot of names, but Turtle Boy is kind of

646
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: like a central figure and nobody really maybe knows who

647
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: he is. So we're going to deep dive and do

648
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: who Turtle Boy is. And this is the beginning of that.

649
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 3: So his name is Aiden Kearney and he goes by

650
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: turtle Boy. He had a court date last week July

651
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 3: seventh in Massachusetts. Of course we're hearing related to alleged

652
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 3: witness intimidation and bail violations. He's currently facing several charges

653
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: for witness intimidation, picketting a witness, and wiretapping connected to

654
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: his coverage of the Karen Reid murder case. So Karen,

655
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: of course, we know who Karen Reid is. We don't

656
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: need to go into that. But okay, so let's get

657
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: an into who turtle Boy is and why he's facing

658
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: these charges. So Turtle Boy he founded the blog called

659
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: Turtle Boy Sports and it evolved into something called TV

660
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: Daily News, and he began it was an anonymous blog

661
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: where he was kind of like covering local corruption, politically,

662
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: charge commentary, crime and later openly identifying himself as Kearney

663
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: and of course his little his loyal Turtle riders following well.

664
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: His role in the Karen Reid case was early in

665
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, he started deep diving her case because

666
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: he you know, he lives in the area, and he

667
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: created a blog series called the Canton Cover Up. And

668
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: really this is kind of what ignited the Free Karen

669
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: Reid movement because Turtle Boy astuteley in looking at all

670
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: the police reports he was getting and you know, talking

671
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: to locals, he was basically investigating the case. Yeah, I mean, okay,

672
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: as an independent kind of journalist guy, and he was

673
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: just like really kind of the first guy that started

674
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: sounding the alarm bells that there might be some kind

675
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: of framing situation happening here, something was going on. But

676
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: he's very bold, he's very confident in how he speaks,

677
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 3: and that might come across to some people as intimidating, right,

678
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: So he's got kind of a reputation, and in doing so,

679
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 3: he got charged with witness intimidation, ticketting a witness, and

680
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 3: wiretapping because he was investigating this case without police involvement.

681
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: So here we are, and that's We're going to continue

682
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: this conversation because it's a lot to it's really a

683
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: lot to unpack.

684
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: A Turtle Boy and you gets better than anybody as

685
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: a super rich I do. And that's why detective of

686
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: your own who does it so ethically, and he really

687
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: did crack it open. I mean Karen Reid when she

688
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: was found not guilty, it was Karen Reid, her dad

689
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: and then her defense attorney and Turtle Boy at the podium, right,

690
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: they were like, she really does credit him.

691
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 3: He kind of rallied the troops, He organized public demonstrations,

692
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 3: he sold merchandise, he live streamed interactions. He staged these

693
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 3: rolling rallies which were like these caravan protests, like going

694
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 3: past the homes of the witnesses, and I mean, listen,

695
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 3: that's that's kind of intimidation. Though, well that's what he

696
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 3: was charged with. Right. So this is a whole separate

697
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 3: case outside of Karen read but it's you know, affiliated,

698
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: it's like another arm of that case. And I think

699
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: a lot of the people and this is not I

700
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 3: don't believe Turtle Boy's fault by any stretching the imagination.

701
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: I'm not blaming him, but this whole you know, the

702
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: family getting harassed, I think kind of comes from that.

703
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 2: The spirit of those those protests. Wow, it's like there's

704
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,959
Speaker 2: no way to It's tough on all sides. Right, He's

705
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 2: doing the right thing and at the same time taking

706
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 2: it too far potentially.

707
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 3: I don't know, it sure seems so all right.

708
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: It's officially getting a little bit rowdy here in the

709
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: studio as we speak. Listen, Hey, Glenn, we were so

710
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: psyched to hear from you. We were just talking about

711
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: it from the break we were back because I feel

712
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: like we want more Glenn Moore's world needs Yes, the

713
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 2: world needs more Glenn.

714
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 3: We have a talk back now, So yeah, here we go.

715
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 9: Hi, True crime tonight. So honestly, I'm confused by people

716
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 9: are so surprised that the president isn't releasing these files. Like,

717
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 9: in my opinion, it's pretty normal for a politician to

718
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 9: say one thing during a campaign to get elected and

719
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 9: then do something else when they're actually in office. We've

720
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 9: seen this time and time again with presidents from every party,

721
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 9: and I don't understand why people are getting so mad

722
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 9: about the specific instance, Like, isn't this just what politics is?

723
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: The double talk is the name of the game.

724
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 2: Is that what we're suggesting here that we all accept

725
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: double talk?

726
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 3: Well, I mean to her, I think she's listen, I

727
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 3: think she's right though, no, I know she's right, but

728
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that she's one hundred percent right. Of

729
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 3: course she's right. Unfortunately, though, I think we shouldn't accept it.

730
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 3: Couldn't be like we shouldn't sit back and be like, well, well,

731
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 3: it's just politics. I have an idea, what lie detector tests?

732
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, yes, we'll do the debates hooked up during

733
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 3: the right now, hope, please, we're going to get that

734
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: sorted out. You're going to call your old coworkers show

735
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 3: right now. Yes, we're going to get that solved, because

736
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: I feel like that's part of just the issue. I

737
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 3: don't even know what they're saying.

738
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: It's just like, can someone just say it transparently that

739
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: we can illegal for something?

740
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: It should be illegal to campaign knowing that you're lying. Yeah,

741
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: like it should have jail time. I agree they should be, But.

742
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 6: Then how do you say were you lying at the

743
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 6: time or no, you absolutely meant to do.

744
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 3: I feel like I.

745
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 6: Don't know how you evolve your standards.

746
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: You should what you can evolve your opinion. Many people

747
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 2: do that and they say, hey, look I got it wrong.

748
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: Now I have it right, and I got it wrong.

749
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: But in Trump's case, if I'm not mistaken, he was

750
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: our you know, president once before, so he would have

751
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: had access to those files, which according to Elon Musk,

752
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 2: which again I know, I'm just like pulling out all

753
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: kinds of sources.

754
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: I don't know who's what's what.

755
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: But isn't he saying that he also saw the list

756
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: and he was in the in Trump, if he was

757
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: running on that for the second time, he's running on

758
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: something he said he saw. So it's not like it

759
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I misspoke, because we get that we're

760
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 2: all human blakes.

761
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: Your opinions change, you grow.

762
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 6: No, I think it's a blatant lie, and I think

763
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 6: we're not talking about any sort of growth. We're talking

764
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 6: about the least common denominator under which we are all living,

765
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 6: which is not cheerful.

766
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 3: We're going to turn this around. Yes, we have another talkback.

767
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 10: Hey, I had a question about the Epstein trial. I

768
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 10: don't really follow. It's just super dark, honestly, but yeah,

769
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 10: I have a question about how long after his body

770
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 10: was hanging or like he was dead did it take

771
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 10: for them to find him and if.

772
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 8: That matters at all?

773
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 10: And also the whole missing of footage. I mean, that's insane,

774
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 10: that seems nuts. But yeah, I was just wondering.

775
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 3: Great question again, really good smartest crime crew. So I

776
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 3: last night we had Joseph Scott Morgan on Forensic Expert

777
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 3: and I asked him about this, and it might have

778
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: been during commercial and I didn't mean it if it was,

779
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 3: but he explained that the libidity of the blood pooling

780
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 3: in his back area suggested that he was hanging there

781
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: for about two hours and they found him at six

782
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 3: thirty in the morning, so around that would be around

783
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 3: four to four thirty in the morning that you know

784
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: he quote unquote killed himself. And I'm using the air

785
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: quotes but you can't see. So yeah, two hours and

786
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 3: yeah that missing minute and the aspect ratio change and

787
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 3: and the metadata being two videos sliced together.

788
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 6: It's like I edited it, which is really saying something.

789
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: It really is. It's great, gustrous, You're one hundred percent right,

790
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 3: So no, it is preposterous. Listen, keep it here.

791
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 6: We have as of developments about the Menanda's brothers and

792
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 6: a potential serial killer in the Northeast question Mark keep

793
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 6: it Here True Crime tonight.

794
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 3: So we've discussed the Karen Read stuff.

795
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: We're going to really follow this turtle boy situation that

796
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: body was telling us about later in the week as well.

797
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: And there's this crazy, really unusual case about Sarah Grace

798
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: Patrick and she's this young teenager who allegedly, allegedly allegedly

799
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: killed her mother and her stepfather and it's a real

800
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: twisted one. So we're going to hear more about that.

801
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: And then also there may be a serial killer on

802
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 2: the loose in Maine, a very unexpected place, and one

803
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: of our listeners, Esther was, was smart enough and kind

804
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: enough to reach out and give us some scoop, and

805
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: we're digging into that. So, ladies, who wants to go first,

806
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: raise your right hand. I will raise my right hand.

807
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 6: I'm strong, yes, And if I were Blake Lively, I

808
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 6: would say I would like to raise my right hand

809
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 6: and be very comfortable in private while I do it.

810
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, So here is what just happened. So a

811
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 6: judge granted Blake Lively a protective order and this is

812
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 6: ahead of her deposition in the Justin Baldoni case. So

813
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 6: a deposition is basically you sit there, you're not in

814
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 6: a courtroom, and you answer a lot of questions in

815
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 6: a legal proceeding. So what she was granted that she

816
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 6: will be protected so there can be no and this

817
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 6: is great, there can be no harassment, intimidation or undo

818
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 6: burden during these proceedings. And the person the protected in

819
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 6: this case Lively, she gets determined for where her deposition

820
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 6: will take place.

821
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: She will be private and comfortable.

822
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 6: And it seems like Justin Baldoni, who is going to

823
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 6: be doing his side, is going to be doing the deposition.

824
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 6: He had other things to say, and he suggested that

825
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 6: they do the deposition in Madison Square Garden and stream

826
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 6: it or sell tickets. And he did say that, and

827
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 6: he said, listen, we'll do it to raise funds for

828
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 6: abuse victims, which could be seen as a lovely thing. Honestly,

829
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 6: I mean, who wouldn't want money for abuse victims? But

830
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 6: Lively's side certainly condemned it. What are the.

831
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: Odds that that movie was actually about SA in sexual assault?

832
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 3: Right?

833
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 2: It ends with Us, which I loved, and you know,

834
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: you know, the book series was so highly regarded the

835
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: film that Justin Baldoni directed as well as start in

836
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: alongside the beautiful Blake Lively. Who I mean, I've always

837
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: been a mega Blake Lively fan, I mean, gossip girl

838
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: to the end. So all of this kind of is

839
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: a hard pill to swallow, I guess, because it's two sided.

840
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: If Blake Lively has gotten a bad rap and was

841
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: in fact, you know, harassed at work or felt that

842
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 2: she was put into compromising exploitative positions in the workplace

843
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: by Justin Baldoni, of course that should be that should

844
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 2: be handled. But if it was just a pr move

845
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: or a smear campaign to get the rights of the

846
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 2: book back. I mean, there's been so many theories about this.

847
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: If that ends up being the case, who his I mean,

848
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 2: obviously it's seeming like the judge says it's not the case,

849
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: you know, thankfully, But man, that doesn't help victims at all.

850
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: You know, Stephanie, you're my source for like all things

851
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 3: like celebrity means gossip. I don't Again, I haven't really

852
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: followed this Justin Baldon thing, but he was countersuiting, correct, he.

853
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 6: Was in a very real riot, right, that's right, So Lively,

854
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 6: just real quick, Blake Lively, she followed a suit she

855
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 6: accused Justin Baldoni, co star and director of the movie,

856
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 6: of sexual harassment as well as for retaliation during the

857
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 6: making of It Ends with Us, the movie they were

858
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 6: in together. Baldoni roundly denied the claim, and he did

859
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 6: file a four hundred million dollar countersuit, and that was

860
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 6: for extortion and defamation. That was against Blake Lively and

861
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 6: her husband Ryan Reynolds, another movie star that has been

862
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 6: dismissed and has not been refiled bodies.

863
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 3: So you're exactly right.

864
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 2: And look, there was like this back and forth petty

865
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 2: betty stuff right where it seems like he was saying

866
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: one thing and then there was a text exchange that

867
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: said the other, and we were all kind of getting

868
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: washed away in this PR machine, which it does seem

869
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: as though at its core there was some nefarious or

870
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: you know, maybe this is just again another category politics. Okay, fine,

871
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: I guess PR that that this is like a machine

872
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 2: that is an underbelly in Hollywood that we're learning about

873
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: maybe through this case where PR machines sort of kind

874
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: of go undercurrent and create these smear campaigns allegedly allegedly allegedly,

875
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: and that becomes big business. Who knows. But at the

876
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: end of the day, yes, Justin Beldoni was countersuing he

877
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: has a very affluent, wealthy partner at Wayfair Entertainment who

878
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 2: made the movie that justin' directed and started in and

879
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: they saw a really sour end to that. That was

880
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 2: a hard no. So now we're back on track for

881
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: Blake Lively to go back to where she started, which

882
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: was this original lawsuit basically saying she was indigging it

883
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: in that she was put in very uncomfortable situations in

884
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 2: the workplace, right.

885
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 6: And you're right, Stephanie about I know we touched about

886
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 6: this just for just a hot second, but just PR

887
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 6: and what that does and what it does. It seems

888
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 6: like in this moment, PR isn't just to get quote

889
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 6: the word out as in there's a movie. PR seems

890
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 6: to have changed into we're going to put out whatever

891
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 6: reality we feel like they change out.

892
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 3: Exactly, changing the narrative right like, yes, completely and structuring

893
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: the naraks and reality.

894
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 6: It's wicked, terrifying, all of it. I mean it is terrifying,

895
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 6: and it echoes Stephanie, I'll get your straight jacket out.

896
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 3: This is all echoes of Epstein.

897
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 6: No and it is all of it's infuriating, but yeah,

898
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 6: the warping, there are no facts anymore.

899
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: It appears we even heard and I know we have

900
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: to do a quick segment. Listen that you're listening to

901
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 2: True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. Please join us eight eight

902
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: eight three one crime. Jump in, join the conversation. We're

903
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: talking about Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively. Blake Lively is

904
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: said to appear at a hearing on Thursday and is

905
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 2: looking for some security. This hearing is kind of going

906
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: back in time to the original lawsuit that was placed

907
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 2: where she felt as though she was being harassed in

908
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: the workplace. And then we're talking about this like the

909
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: public relations machine. It used to be old school, like, oh,

910
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: I'm a pr person again. I'm paraphizing. I don't totally

911
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: know the inner workings of this, but I'm surprised by

912
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 2: it in current times where it's like, oh, I want

913
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: my movie to get some press, So the stars of

914
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: that movie are going to go on the Jimmy Kimmel Show,

915
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: where they're going to go on you know Fallon or

916
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live. They're going to host to promote the

917
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: film that has been you know, so much money invested

918
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 2: by a studio, Okay, I get it.

919
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 3: Or if there's like.

920
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: A scandal, ooh, found doing drugs at the Chateau Marmont, Okay,

921
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: PR people, they're going to jump in and say nothing

922
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: to see here and like kind of bury it air quotes.

923
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 3: I kind of understood it that way.

924
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 2: But now as we here are here with social media,

925
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: it says though a real piece of the machine is

926
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: putting out snippets and clipbait on on social media. That

927
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: really does, to your point body reframe the narrative. And

928
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: that's pretty scary stuff because in the eve of fake news,

929
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: anybody can be made to look crazy. In fact, I

930
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: was just whether this is unsubstantiated because I don't know

931
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: what's real anymore, but there was a trusted source that

932
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: I really do believe it. In fact, I'm trying to

933
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 2: get her to come on the show to talk about

934
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: it herself. Is claiming that the Diddy trial, for example,

935
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: social media influencers were being paid like forty k a

936
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: pop to put out positive things about the trial on

937
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: social media. Now that's unsubstantiated, but just as an example

938
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 2: of what PR machines do, they could potentially employ many

939
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: many people to put posts and you know here I

940
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 2: am Facebook, and.

941
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 3: To create a story. Yeah what they're not on the jury, right,

942
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 3: So no, it's public opinion.

943
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: It's public opinion, and isn't that ultimately, which is why

944
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: we have the same thing with politics, which is why

945
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: we're having the same thing on social media. This is like,

946
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: it's not about celebrities anymore. It's not about promoting a

947
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: movie anymore. It's not even about it ends with us anymore.

948
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: The film that this all started in, which by the way,

949
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 2: head of the beautiful sentiment and really beautiful message, man

950
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 2: has that got washed up? And again, if you have

951
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: a bunch of deep pockets and real money to spend,

952
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: not a blad place, suspend it. If you want to

953
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: look real good despite real bad behavior. So I don't know,

954
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: I don't know where that shakes out in this, but

955
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind doing a series on this or if

956
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,479
Speaker 2: anybody listening has any inside scoop into this machine, because

957
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 2: I know that of course there are wonderful pr people

958
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: that this is not the jam, but I do think

959
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: it's a part of the every day that we're seeing,

960
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: and I personally find it real confusing and terrifying.

961
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 6: I mean, remember the simple days, and this is not

962
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 6: to make super light of it, but the simple days

963
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 6: when the biggest thing in PR was Lizzie Grubman, high

964
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 6: powered celebrity backing in Hampton in the Hamptons.

965
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 2: Yes, because she had too many cocktails in a Hampton's party.

966
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 2: Like that was like, oh scandal, it was like ooh,

967
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: page six.

968
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: Ooh.

969
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: Now It's like that is how it is done, and

970
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 2: real money is being put to it.

971
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: And I don't know how you and I don't know

972
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: if you. I kind of like I think of like

973
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: troll farms, like you know, you learn you you hear

974
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: about like the people that you know they're in a

975
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: there's maybe fifty people in a room and their desk

976
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 3: is just cell phones, right, like lines of cell phones

977
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 3: just making comments Like you know, is that a thing? Yeah?

978
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. That's kind of what I what

979
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 3: I imagine in my mind when you're talking about this kind

980
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 3: of thing. That's what I like see in my head,

981
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 3: Like these major firms, like these PR firms that are

982
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 3: buying bots and you know, these these troll farms to

983
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 3: push a narrative on social media.

984
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: Boy is that a good point because also don't forget

985
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: ais of everything, Like I have a thinking suspicion this

986
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 2: is based on nothing, and I have based on the

987
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: smartest in the room. But in terms of the next

988
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 2: president or the United States, I bet you an influencer,

989
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: somebody from social media, not AI is going to galvanize

990
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: the people. Sobody who was unrelated to politics altogether, no

991
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: association whatsoever.

992
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 3: There really are in idiocracy at this point.

993
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 2: It is we're at that time that that we listen

994
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 2: more to what we're and by the way, myself included,

995
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: I have to check myself all the time to make

996
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: sure we're sourcing things twice because but it does. It's

997
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: like impactful, it has mass appeal, you can edit it,

998
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: there's a platform, there's a machine pushing it out. It's

999
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: just I think it's something for us all to kind

1000
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: of unpack and think about as we as we you know,

1001
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 2: true crimate together.

1002
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 3: Well, you're right, because we do have to source everything

1003
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 3: two or three times. Yeah, and that's kind of new,

1004
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 3: you know, it said we would just kind of like okay,

1005
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 3: ABC said it, but now we're having to be like, okay,

1006
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: well let's go get four other sources. Exactly. It's a

1007
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 3: different time. Yeah, scary.

1008
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: There's a lot of cases that are unfolding right now

1009
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 2: that we're just starting. We're seeding them as how we

1010
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: say it here behind closed doors. So this Sarah Grace

1011
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: Patrick is this teenager who allegedly, allegedly allegedly killed her

1012
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: mother and her stepfather. And what's kind of twisted about

1013
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: this case is that she allowed her younger sibling if

1014
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: this is true, So frankly, I find the bodies, which

1015
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 2: is messy, and she's so young, and she's being tried

1016
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 2: as an adult. So we're going to dig into that one.

1017
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 2: And then also this potential serial killer.

1018
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 3: In Maine, I mean, New England.

1019
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: Not really known for its serial killers, but this is

1020
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: something we're going to start monitoring closely. So body, yes,

1021
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: where would you like to start and who would you

1022
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 2: like to start with?

1023
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about the potential serial killer in mean

1024
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 3: So I'm not exactly sure why they think it's a

1025
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 3: serial killer, but we're going to unpack it anyway. But

1026
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 3: just keep in mind, I don't know where they're getting

1027
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 3: the serial killer from. I don't know if they're trying

1028
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 3: to connect it to the potential serial killer in like

1029
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,479
Speaker 3: the Boston and the Connecticut area, but me is quite

1030
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 3: a far distance.

1031
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, body, that's my gross understanding too.

1032
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 3: That's the correlation people are making, right, But let's keep

1033
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 3: it in the back of your mind that this is

1034
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 3: potentially part of the New England serial killer, you know,

1035
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 3: story that we've been covering since we went live, right, yeah,

1036
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 3: since day one. We've been since day one. Yeah, So

1037
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 3: this is the in Maine again. On July second, forty

1038
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: eight year old Sunshine Sunny as she goes by Sunny Stewart,

1039
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 3: she went on a solo paddleboarding excursion in Crawford Pond

1040
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 3: in Union, Maine. Okay, July second, you know, she was

1041
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: paddling all evening and the following Oh but she never

1042
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 3: came home. Okay, the following evening. Game wardens discovered her

1043
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 3: body around one am on July third. So she leaves

1044
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 3: July second, she's discovered it hits midnight, one o'clock in

1045
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 3: the morning. Okay. Now it's on a like a really

1046
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 3: small island in this pond. Investigators quickly ruled her death

1047
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:08,919
Speaker 3: a homicide, finding her under quote unquote unusual circumstances. Also,

1048
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 3: we don't know what that means, right, we don't know

1049
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 3: what those unusual circumstances mean, but that has only fueled

1050
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 3: this speculation that there's a serial killer. Right. So the

1051
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 3: more tight lips the authorities are about like her manner

1052
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 3: of death, that these unusual circumstances they found her in,

1053
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 3: the more speculation, you know, is going to run rampant

1054
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: on social media about a potential serial killer. So this

1055
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 3: is like a really like tight knit area and it's

1056
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: kind of like a sleepy area. Everyone is described as

1057
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 3: like very This is like completely unexpected to happen in

1058
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,439
Speaker 3: this area of the country. It's just not something that

1059
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 3: the police, quite frankly, are accustomed to. The people who

1060
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: live there are not accustomed to. This is incredibly unusual,

1061
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 3: so that everyone awoke the next morning to like grief

1062
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 3: and shock and fear, and friends who you know had

1063
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: been at the campground just days earlier are just like

1064
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 3: really overcome with this. Oh my god, this lady was

1065
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 3: just murdered at our campground.

1066
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 6: On a little pond. I mean, what could sound more peaceful?

1067
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 6: But I do think body that you're so right that

1068
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 6: when there is a dearth of information and investigators keep

1069
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 6: a close hold which can be for so many really

1070
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 6: good reasons that people do try and just fill that

1071
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 6: void of there is no information, let me put in

1072
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 6: my own, and it can get a little.

1073
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 3: Because people want to fill the void, right, and things

1074
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 3: can kind of just run rampant. So the autopsy did

1075
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 3: confirm it was a homicide, though the cause of death

1076
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 3: has not been publicly released, and I don't know that

1077
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 3: it ever will in these kind of things. Investigators have

1078
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 3: not named any suspects, and there's been, you know, a

1079
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 3: multi agency search initially for her because she was reported missing,

1080
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 3: like the game wardens, fire department, sheriff deputies, they were

1081
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 3: all launched shortly after she went missing, and they found her,

1082
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 3: Like I said, at one o'clock in the morning, this

1083
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: is a really small pond. I kind of am a

1084
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 3: little confused on why they needed all these people to

1085
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 3: search it. It's the only I mean, at its deepest,

1086
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 3: it's only fifty seven feet in this island they found

1087
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 3: around it's only one hundred acres, So I'm kind of curious.

1088
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: There's a lot of like missing pieces, and I think

1089
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 3: that's probably why Esther sent us, you know, one of

1090
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 3: our listeners sent us this case because there's a lot

1091
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 3: of missing pieces that we want to dig into, but

1092
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 3: we just kind of started this today. So but it

1093
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 3: was only a matter of hours, and it was dark,

1094
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 3: it was very dark in the evening and she was

1095
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 3: found by one am. So, yes, what you're saying is

1096
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 3: quite small, but in the scope of things in the dark,

1097
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 3: starting to scratch. So the main state police acknowledged that

1098
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: the community is really scared that the serial killer. You know,

1099
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 3: rumors are igniting and now in Maine, and they urged

1100
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 3: the community and the residents to stay calm and report

1101
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 3: any suspicious activity, stating that there is no confirmed connection

1102
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: between any of the cases. Another high profile cases involves

1103
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 3: a twenty one year old Adrian Suazzo, whose body was

1104
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: found in a wooded area of Milton, Massachusetts. So it's

1105
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 3: out in nature. It's you know, so sierable there is it.

1106
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 3: Have you been? Yeah, I've been there. Actually, that's a

1107
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 3: beautiful neck of the woods. Her remains show no signs

1108
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 3: of trauma, and her cause of death is still under investigation,

1109
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 3: so there is some things there. Sonny Stewart's sister, Kim Ware,

1110
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 3: described her the victim, as a beloved marine biologist and

1111
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 3: boat captain who had sailed the Caribbean through a hurricane,

1112
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 3: Like this is a fierce woman. What calling her a

1113
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 3: selfless and she lived life unapologetically and she died in

1114
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 3: this little small body of water. Yeah, well, again, the

1115
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 3: investigation said, quote unquote suspicious circumstances.

1116
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: Such an interesting thing, you know, because we were talking

1117
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: about this earlier. One of the cases that we're working

1118
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 2: on separately on KT you know, is something we've been

1119
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 2: working on for a while, and it's like we need answers,

1120
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: like we think we've connected some serious dots, right, but

1121
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: we also don't want to interrupt a police investigation. Obviously,

1122
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 2: we work alongside police officers and by the way, given

1123
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: all the Karen Reid nonsense, we work alongside very great

1124
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: ones as well. So shout out to the men in

1125
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: blue and women I might add in blue. So you know,

1126
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: it's on the one hand, we're calling it a serial killer.

1127
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: There might be some real truth to that. There might be,

1128
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 2: And at the same time, there might be some information

1129
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: being with held from the public because it's connected to

1130
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: something which is connected to something which is connected to

1131
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 2: something and you know, and.

1132
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: If that gets out, and if that gets out, then

1133
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 3: the person, the serial killer if it is one, No,

1134
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 3: they got to change their manner of operandi, you know,

1135
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 3: they got to change their manner of killing. They gotta

1136
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 3: you know, this happened with the nightstalker. That's exactly right.

1137
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 2: You just nailed it on the head there, because it's

1138
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: an interesting thing I hadn't. You know, we want answers

1139
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: and we want transparency, and then sometimes it's like, look,

1140
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 2: we're trying to not tip off the killer. Who's also

1141
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: probably because serial killers sometimes are well not sometimes oftentimes

1142
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: are narcissists and psychopaths, right who like the attention? Who

1143
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: Also we saw this with Brian Coburger potentially, who was

1144
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 2: you know, checking out the message boards and seeing what

1145
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 2: the chatter is online about the killings and just to

1146
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 2: kind of either double down on and what is it

1147
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 2: operas motor dah.

1148
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 3: I don't know why.

1149
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 2: I can never say that straight or they might just

1150
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 2: change it up to get the sniff off their trail, right,

1151
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 2: So sometimes it's important to hold that information close. But yeah,

1152
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 2: we're I'm going to dig in because there's something. There's

1153
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 2: something fishy.

1154
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 3: Another really strange thing really quick is this is like

1155
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 3: a really remote area the pond is in a really

1156
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 3: remote area of this area, and so it's very strange

1157
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 3: that a random serial killer would be out there at

1158
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 3: this time. So maybe she was stalked followed is just unusual.

1159
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 3: I just wanted to point that out real quickly.

1160
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a lot more questions than answers so far,

1161
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 6: but we will be staying on it and listen if

1162
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 6: you want to join our conversation. We're at eighty eight

1163
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 6: three to one crime and we would love to hear

1164
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 6: from you. So back for a hot second, Stephanie to

1165
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 6: the modus operandi, which I'm saying incorrectly as well. It

1166
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 6: is interesting with this whole the question of the Northeast

1167
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 6: serial killer, because there has been such sort of disparate

1168
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 6: even victims, because usually the norm is that it's women

1169
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 6: between the ages of X and Y versus just a

1170
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 6: range of sexes and ages.

1171
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 3: I would like to map it. It would be interesting

1172
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 3: to create a board.

1173
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: You know, this is sort of our step one typically

1174
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: internally here at KT is you know, putting a big

1175
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 2: board together, right and taking all of the victims and

1176
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 2: just the basic facts. In fact, honestly, anyone listening crime crewers,

1177
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 2: please like toss us any information you may have in

1178
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: and around the area, because you know, once you sort

1179
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 2: of look at it in front of you. You know,

1180
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 2: we've all watched CSI or you know, Law and Order.

1181
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 2: You see those detectives. Not that we're detectives, but it's

1182
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 2: just a way of kind of mapping the very basic

1183
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: information a picture, age, name, place, you know, manner of death,

1184
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 2: and how their body was found and who that body

1185
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 2: was found by, and then the next one and locations.

1186
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 2: Because sometimes when you do that, you take a look

1187
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 2: back and you're like, you really very quickly can connect dots.

1188
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 3: You know, all my spreadsheets that I have, Yeah, your spreadsheet.

1189
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 3: I have spreadsheets on every case that I follow and

1190
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 3: every single spreadsheet that I have, and I have dozens

1191
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 3: of them, and my friends will tell you that I'm

1192
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 3: crazy about them. My girlfriend actually bought me a this

1193
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 3: deserves a spreadsheet shirt of Chase. It's a miner. Every

1194
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 3: single case that I follow has a map. I map everything.

1195
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: It's it's really important.

1196
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 2: It's like step one, right, so I would like to

1197
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: start mapping this one. And you know, listen, we don't

1198
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 2: have the answers yet, but just little by little, as

1199
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 2: you know, we hear more information, both in the media

1200
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: and based on our digging and research, and also from

1201
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 2: you guys, if you have any details to share from

1202
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 2: in and around the main area or New England in general. Listen,

1203
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 2: there's an uptick, right, So is that just something that's

1204
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: being put in the press for sensational purposes or is

1205
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: there some loose ends? And if that's the case, maybe

1206
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 2: we can help.

1207
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1208
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 3: I enjoying the conversation, right, Like that helps you join

1209
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 3: the conversation. We want this to be kind of like

1210
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 3: a place where people can come to have these conversations

1211
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: like is this really happening.

1212
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: We'll strike out sometimes, you know, we're not We're not

1213
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: trying to interrupt anything. We're not trying to accuse anybody

1214
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 2: of murder, obviously, Captain obvious. But you know, look, this

1215
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 2: is how it starts. And our listeners are smart man.

1216
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 6: Oh absolutely, and listen. Yeah, everything does start with questions.

1217
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 6: It is important to note that these are it is speculation.

1218
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 6: It's kind of morely held speculation, but it is that.

1219
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 6: And law enforcement is not saying the word serial killer.

1220
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 2: You want to say that, And listen, there's this new

1221
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 2: case that we want to start unpacking. You may have

1222
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 2: seen it a bit in the news about this young teenager,

1223
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 2: Sarah Grace Patrick. She's looking at a very real bad situation.

1224
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 2: Allegedly she took the life of her mother and her

1225
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 2: stepdad and kind of what's extra weird about this one,

1226
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 2: aside from just that, right is as is going to

1227
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,959
Speaker 2: be tried as an adult, so more on that to come.

1228
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 3: But also she was kind of.

1229
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 2: Reaching out to crime shows maybe like Hours, asking for

1230
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 2: some crime enthusiasts and influencers and TV shows and blogs

1231
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: and podcasts and you know, frankly shows like this, although

1232
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 2: not ours, to help solve the crime and solve her parents' death,

1233
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: her mother and her stepdad, honestly, and then it turns

1234
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: out it was her potentially, So that's a twisted one.

1235
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 2: And Courtney, you've been following this closely.

1236
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 3: Where should we go on this?

1237
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1238
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,919
Speaker 6: So I think starting with the basics, because that's all

1239
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 6: I've really been gathering. And I think this is going

1240
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 6: to evolve. I think it's going to evolve quickly. But

1241
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 6: I don't know what I'm basing that on except forgot.

1242
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 3: I agree, God, yeah, no, I agree. I think the

1243
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 3: suspect is young, and I think she's vulnerable. And I

1244
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 3: think if she is guilty, they're going to be able

1245
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 3: to crack that pretty quickly. And she is very dramatic

1246
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 3: on social media. She's making videos crying into the camera,

1247
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 3: uh my mommy, you know, I miss my mommy, and

1248
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 3: it's all very sad if she's innocent of this. But

1249
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 3: and she was like filming herself crying and like filming herself,

1250
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to the funeral, those kinds of things.

1251
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 3: It feels very I need a formative, very performative right now.

1252
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 3: I mean in hindsight, But what if she's just like sad,

1253
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 3: but it's just sad, right.

1254
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 6: So, just the salient facts of it is Sarah Grace Patrick.

1255
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 6: She's a teen out of Georgia and her mother forty

1256
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 6: one year old Kristen Brock, and her stepfather who is

1257
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 6: forty five year old James Brock. They were found shot

1258
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 6: to death in their bed and they were found by

1259
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 6: the five year old daughter that they share together. That

1260
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 6: was her mother and father. So the teen, Sarah Grace Patrick, again,

1261
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 6: this is her mother and stepfather. So she has been

1262
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 6: charged as an adult, as you said, Steph, And she

1263
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 6: is seventeen years old now and she's been charged with

1264
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 6: two counts of murder and two counts of aggravated assault

1265
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 6: for this alleged killing. This happened back in February.

1266
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 3: It seems like a really long time. Yeah, So she

1267
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 3: was like at this is like just breaking now. She

1268
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 3: was like just off for several months and she was

1269
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 3: a mourning daughter. It's been five months months. Wow. And

1270
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 3: how old was she at the time? Sixteen at the time.

1271
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 3: And Steph, just this happened in February. I'm sorry, Courtney,

1272
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 3: this happened in February. She was arrested just last week,

1273
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 3: I think on the eighth. Yeah, so five months and

1274
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 3: the police have said they have a mountain of evidence

1275
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 3: against her. And it's crazy to me that if they

1276
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 3: have this mountain of evidence, why it took five months

1277
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: to get her arrested. It's interesting.

1278
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 2: And she's saying innocent, innocent, innocent. I don't think we've

1279
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 2: heard from her, Yeah, not that I have seen things.

1280
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: News is coming out pretty quick, but not the last

1281
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 2: I look. And after the murders Sarah Grace, she was

1282
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 2: posting all of these emotional and kind of cryptic TikTok

1283
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 2: videos just mourning her parents. She described her life as

1284
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 2: a horror movie, and she kept expressing homesickness for wanting

1285
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 2: to go home.

1286
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 3: I bet so well. She lived. She lived with different

1287
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 3: family members too, Like she wasn't a permanent residence at

1288
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 3: the home. At the familial home, she was staying with

1289
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,919
Speaker 3: other family members. And I'm not sure exactly why yet.

1290
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 3: I don't think they've we've learned yet, but she there

1291
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 3: was apparently something going on, yeah, and not saying but

1292
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 3: if there is nothing going on, well, I mean, it

1293
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 3: does happen. Why its scary to think about ed Kemper.

1294
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, this is why I were called right,

1295
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 2: it does happen.

1296
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 3: We just don't know. But it's just so odd, how

1297
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 3: dramatic she was on social media and wanting the attention

1298
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 3: and just acting like a grieving daughter that just lost

1299
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 3: her mom. And I mean it was video after video

1300
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 3: afterr video of just tears and then other videos. This'sort.

1301
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:19,560
Speaker 3: Both things might be true. She might have filled her absolutely,

1302
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:21,719
Speaker 3: and then other videos of her like at the beach

1303
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 3: just loving life as soon, you know, as early or

1304
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 3: late as like two weeks ago.

1305
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 2: Jerrian, she was at the beach two weeks ago. But look,

1306
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: we were learning this again, I'm going to give Sarah

1307
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 2: Grace Patrick a little grace until proven wrong, which I

1308
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 2: you know admit is often. You know, we just learned

1309
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 2: this with the Menendez brothers who are now looking to

1310
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 2: be freed after decades behind bars because they killed their parents,

1311
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 2: total bloodbath. They went straight and partied and bought rolexes

1312
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 2: or I'm paraphrasing, but they went they got spendy and

1313
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 2: like you know, life went on. They bought cars. That

1314
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 2: was why they were thrown behind bars, right because it

1315
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 2: wasn't a good look. They weren't grieving correctly. You know,

1316
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 2: is it plausible that this young lady I'm looking at

1317
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 2: a picture of her right now kind of a heartbreaking,

1318
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 2: what a beauty and like what a waste you know,

1319
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 2: lives lost in this horrible manner. My heart goes out

1320
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 2: to the five year old that had to stumble in

1321
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 2: and catch her parents murdered. That's a stain that will

1322
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 2: you know, core memory that's hard to shake for that

1323
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 2: she should definitely be there's a talking to you know here,

1324
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 2: But like, is it possible that maybe there was something

1325
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,520
Speaker 2: that was going on in Sarah Grace's.

1326
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 6: World worse and something that we I mean there could

1327
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 6: not justifying it obviously, oh is we don't know about.

1328
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 3: But the other thing too, is that the police, Courtney curtently,

1329
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 3: if I'm wrong, police said that there might be other suspects. Yeah,

1330
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 3: like a little ring.

1331
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 6: They have not ruled out additional suspects or arrest. They

1332
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 6: do continue to encourage public tips. So that's exactly right.

1333
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 6: So it's tricky. And she also had reached out.

1334
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 3: Oh go ahead, Stephanie.

1335
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 2: No, I was going to say, I'm curious what Gypsy

1336
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 2: Rose has to say on this topic for real.

1337
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 3: I don't say that in a glib way. You know,

1338
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 3: someone who do we really want to hear from her?

1339
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 2: Well, she's interesting contacts. I feel like we talk a

1340
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 2: lot about the Menendez brothers. I'm a little you know,

1341
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 2: I want them all. I'm a little concerned by all

1342
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 2: of it. But you know, court finish your thought. I

1343
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 2: didn't mean to cut you off.

1344
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 6: Oh well, first of all, if anyone else wants to

1345
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 6: join the conversation eight eight eight three one crime, tell

1346
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,000
Speaker 6: us what you think about Sarah Grace Patrick. It's it's

1347
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 6: kind of been all over the news. What I was

1348
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 6: going to say was, in addition to reaching out to

1349
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 6: some true crime social media folks and also posting on

1350
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 6: her own. She also had a family friend and she

1351
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 6: had reached out to them an adult, to speak on

1352
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 6: her behalf and in this and what she had asked

1353
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 6: to say was that she did hear her stepdads. It's

1354
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 6: called an ELVAD machine, which is heart machine, kept his

1355
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 6: heart pumping. So what Sarah Gray said was that she

1356
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 6: did hear the alarm going off throughout the night, but

1357
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 6: it could have also blends it in with background noise.

1358
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 3: So I guess what the theory is there is that

1359
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 3: she heard this LVAD going off, meaning I learned about it.

1360
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 5: What is that?

1361
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 3: I don't even know what's grace? Through Gray's Anatomy, by

1362
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 3: the way, I learned all about that. It's a machine

1363
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 3: that hooks up to your heart keeps a pumping. It

1364
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 3: like sits outside your body, but it's hooked into your heart.

1365
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 3: And famously, on Gray's Anatomy, they cut this. They cut

1366
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 3: it so that this guy could get a transplant. It's

1367
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 3: very dramatic. But anyway, I learned about that on Grays

1368
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 3: And is it like a mini echo machine? I don't know, Okay,

1369
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 3: I just know that she had got amazing anyway, are

1370
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 3: you a doctor? Are you listen? If you've watched all

1371
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 3: the seasons of Gray's Anatomy, I think you qualified that

1372
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,759
Speaker 3: close enough closely. So this elvad when it gets cut

1373
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 3: famously as in the show, I know this because I'm

1374
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 3: an expert. Now, it makes a noise because it's no longer.

1375
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 3: So I guess what she's saying is that she heard

1376
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 3: the alarm going off because he was he was passed away, right,

1377
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 3: because it's not pumping the heart anymore. It's not working

1378
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 3: because there's no pul because he was shot with a rifle.

1379
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 3: How did she have this rifle? Let's discuss that. But

1380
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 3: also a family did she let her sister, this half

1381
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 3: sibling or stepsister enter the room to discover these bodies knowingly?

1382
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 3: I don't like that. I don't like that. That is so sick.

1383
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 3: If that is like a real thing. Wasn't you baby

1384
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 3: talking a little bit?

1385
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 2: That was kind of a weird like little piece which

1386
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 2: is a kind of a dissociative thing.

1387
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean kind of. There is a TikTok account

1388
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 3: that archived all in her videos and I went and

1389
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 3: watched them all, and she was kind of baby talking.

1390
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 3: But if if she wasn't accused of this crime, I

1391
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 3: don't know that you would think of anything of it, right, right,

1392
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 3: right in retrospect, in hindsight, in retrospect, it seems right,

1393
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 3: is right? Right?

1394
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 6: You know, one of them, it was a This one

1395
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 6: kind of struck me. It was a video collage and

1396
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:05,479
Speaker 6: it was of her mother and stepfather. Oh yes, okay,

1397
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 6: and this happened.

1398
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 3: I guess what.

1399
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 6: It's on March first, so I guess about nineteen days

1400
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 6: before they weren't murdered. And what Sarah Grace wrote was

1401
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 6: they don't know it, but a year from now me

1402
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 6: and my five year old sister would find them wrongfully

1403
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,719
Speaker 6: shot dead in our home and won't get to watch

1404
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 6: me graduate high school. So me walk down the aisle

1405
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:26,719
Speaker 6: and couldn't even say goodbye?

1406
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 3: Wait what I'd like to?

1407
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 8: Wait?

1408
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 3: Wait?

1409
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 2: I don't get that she posted a video prior to

1410
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 2: the murders of them.

1411
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 6: No, she posted after them before, saying if only they

1412
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 6: knew then that a year from now.

1413
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a trend. I hate Instagram trends. It's so annoying.

1414
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 2: I find that A pinon that trend is.

1415
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 3: This, Oh just when people they're like, they show a

1416
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 3: photo of themselves and they're like, little does she know

1417
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 3: talking to themselves like this time next year, they're going

1418
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 3: to be like in a very difficult situation that they're yeah,

1419
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 3: you like it. I hate it? No, No, no, I

1420
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 3: don't like it. I don't know.

1421
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 6: I hate talking about but yes I don't.

1422
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 3: I'd like to know what evidence they have, and I'd

1423
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 3: like to know also why they're not, you know, saying

1424
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 3: she's the only suspect. I would really like to know.

1425
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 3: And was there any materials stolen? You know? Is is there?

1426
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 3: Haven't drugs involved? Are they trying to like gather some

1427
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 3: casual mom and dad? Mom and dad were like really

1428
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 3: upstanding members of the community. They were very active in

1429
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 3: their truthing. No, the dad had posted a picture of

1430
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 3: his little girl on social media less than twenty four

1431
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 3: hours before he was gunned down, saying like she's the

1432
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 3: light of my world, and it's all there. She was

1433
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 3: jealous of all this love. If she wasn't living in

1434
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 3: the home with her mother, and I don't know if

1435
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 3: she was living there when it happened, but she was

1436
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 3: in and out of the familiar home with state of

1437
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 3: their family members. I don't have clarity on that as well.

1438
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 6: That hasn't been clear the quote mountain of evidence that

1439
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 6: the police say they have that also is not clear.

1440
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 6: An left any drugs, So I don't know.

1441
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 3: Well, she'll be rain soon. Hopefully she'll be a rain soon.

1442
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll get some of that information. Maybe we'll get

1443
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 3: to see disaster scary.

1444
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 2: Listen, we have a lot going on this week in general,

1445
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 2: so we'll be following up on the cases that are

1446
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:15,640
Speaker 2: unfolding real time and breaking news, but also we're going

1447
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 2: to do a little bit of a deep dive into

1448
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 2: Gilane Maxwell herself, the right hand woman in the Epstein

1449
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 2: and also the Hillside notorious Hillside strangler or killer. Right,

1450
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 2: this is a serial killer that is pretty infamous and

1451
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 2: is definitely, you know, a little bit back in the

1452
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,639
Speaker 2: press again, so we're going to do a big unpack

1453
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:37,679
Speaker 2: on that as well. And although I'm a little afraid

1454
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 2: we're going to start digging into this Abercrombie in Fitch situation,

1455
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 2: that's all I'm going to say.

1456
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 3: We're going to leave it at that. There's a little

1457
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 3: bit of.

1458
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 2: Crossover parallel universes things that are happening. Maybe in the

1459
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:54,799
Speaker 2: Epstein case might in a parallel Hideous World also be happening,

1460
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 2: and yet another very big, high profile case. So more

1461
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 2: on that to come, but we have a quick talkback.

1462
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 3: Hi there.

1463
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 5: I just wanted to see if you guys could talk

1464
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 5: a little bit about the Shannon Price Gary Coleman stuff

1465
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 5: that's kind of been renewed with the new show that's

1466
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 5: come out from Annie about her lie detector test and everything.

1467
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 3: Seems like that was kind of a botched investigation.

1468
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 5: I'd love to get your take on it.

1469
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 6: Yes, seems like that was kind of a bad idea

1470
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 6: to go on that TV show.

1471
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 3: Hi, we do that. I love this question. We will

1472
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 3: dig into this too. We have to know about it.

1473
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 3: I don't even know what you guys are talking about.

1474
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:34,680
Speaker 3: Tell me, tell me what's going on.

1475
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 6: I know almost nothing, and I think we all love

1476
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 6: this talk back, And honestly, guys, let's put this on

1477
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 6: the show tomorrow, because yeah, all I know is Gary

1478
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,759
Speaker 6: Coleman's wife, although it seems it was his ex wife

1479
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 6: who and this was a question that came up when

1480
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 6: he was on life support and she had the do

1481
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,759
Speaker 6: not resuscitate order. I hope I'm not watching all this information.

1482
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 6: I don't think I am though, but she basically said, Okay,

1483
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 6: he's lived enough and it's time to let him rest.

1484
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 6: But apparently she did not have the right to do

1485
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 6: that because they were in fact divorced. But she has

1486
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 6: since gone on a lie detective test on A and E.

1487
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 3: It's on A and E.

1488
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: We can call, Yeah, shout out to Shelley Tetro and

1489
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 2: Elaine Fontane Bryant.

1490
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:18,760
Speaker 3: We can.

1491
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 2: I'll reach out to them and see if they can

1492
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 2: give us some insider scoop from A and E. But yeah,

1493
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 2: the lie detective test, my understanding is it didn't go great.

1494
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,640
Speaker 2: And you know, there's been speculation that Gary Coleman was

1495
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:31,559
Speaker 2: killed