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Speaker 1: This is the Buck Sexton Show where the mission where

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Speaker 1: mission is to decode what really matters with actionable intelligence

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Speaker 1: magnor mistake America, You're a great American. Again, the Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show begins. He's a great guy. No Buck up

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Speaker 1: to the Buck Sexton Show. This is Ben weine Garden

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Speaker 1: filling in for Buck Sexton here on a summer Friday night.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking the time to join us here.

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Speaker 1: Please follow me on Twitter at bh Winegarden. By way

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Speaker 1: of background, if you haven't heard me before, I'm a

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Speaker 1: senior contributor at The Federalist, a fellow at the Claremont Institute,

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Speaker 1: and a senior Fellow at the London Center for Policy Research.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to start off first by thanking

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Speaker 1: Buck for giving me the opportunity to fill his shoes

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Speaker 1: here in the Freedom Hut in the not so free

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Speaker 1: midtown Manhattan. All Right, so we have a lot to

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Speaker 1: get to this evening. We're going to talk a bit

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Speaker 1: about US China policy in Hong Kong. Lots of news

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Speaker 1: today regarding the so called trade war and the US economy,

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Speaker 1: and of course the political ramifications of what is going

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Speaker 1: to transpire as we get towards the election. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about an attempt that you

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Speaker 1: might not be following, but which is pretty critical of

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Speaker 1: the left to Kavanaugh, another Trump appointee to a federal

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Speaker 1: judicial position. And we're going to talk about the radicalism

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Speaker 1: of the Talib Omar caucus of the Democratic Party, half

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Speaker 1: of the squad and it's radical roots, and how those

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Speaker 1: roots show that the left and Islamists and those who

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Speaker 1: carry water for Islamist their friends and those who hold

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Speaker 1: their positions like Talib and Omar, how this relationship goes

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Speaker 1: back decades and what we're seeing right now is just

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Speaker 1: their personification in the Democratic Party. And I want to

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Speaker 1: start actually at where the Democratic Party where progressives, where

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Speaker 1: the elites are in America today. They wish to dominate

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Speaker 1: America ideologically, and part of the way they seek to

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Speaker 1: achieve that is by controlling the history. If you control

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Speaker 1: the narrative about the past, you control the future. What

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Speaker 1: is it that unites everyone on the left today? What

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Speaker 1: is it that unites the left and the Islamists who

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Speaker 1: are increasingly being welcomed into their party. I would suggest

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Speaker 1: to you that if you look at the quotes from

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Speaker 1: all these candidates for presidency and the Democratic primary, all

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Speaker 1: apologizing for past positions that they held, browbeating in the country,

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Speaker 1: calling it fundamentally evil, wrong, and you're deplorable if you

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Speaker 1: think otherwise. What unites them is national self low thing.

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Speaker 1: What unites them is a belief that we are a

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Speaker 1: neocolonialist and this is using their words frequently, rapacious, occupying,

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Speaker 1: aggressor we are the world's great oppressor or victimizer. And

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Speaker 1: on the international side, it's all of our adversaries who

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Speaker 1: are really the oppressed, the victimize, the aggrieved. At home,

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Speaker 1: it's all of the identity politics groups that the left

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Speaker 1: tries to hold up to say that they are virtuous

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Speaker 1: and just. The left says that hatred and bigotry underlie

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Speaker 1: all of our institutions. Everything is systemically racist, and every

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Speaker 1: relationship between groups note groups, not individuals, is about power.

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Speaker 1: It's about political power. Everything is about political power and politics.

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Speaker 1: Groups and their relative positions in society, in the hierarchy

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Speaker 1: that the Left has created of identity politics, are all

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Speaker 1: that matter. It's not about the content of your individual character,

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Speaker 1: it's about your group identity. Human agency doesn't exist. You

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Speaker 1: are not responsible for your actions It's all about what

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Speaker 1: society has done to you. Social justice requires turning our

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Speaker 1: society on its head. And if you didn't think that

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Speaker 1: these narratives were pervasive enough, if they haven't been drilled

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Speaker 1: into your head enough, then you need to look at

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Speaker 1: an ambitious undertaking of The New York Times, which is

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Speaker 1: essentially a proxy for where the elite is in America.

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Speaker 1: And where the elite is in America ideologically has a

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Speaker 1: lot to do with what happens to the institutions that

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Speaker 1: elites lead. If the people leading the institutions are the

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Speaker 1: progressive elites, the institutions are going to implement their worldview,

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Speaker 1: in this case, a radical progressive worldview, an anti American,

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Speaker 1: radical progressive worldview. The Times has engaged in this project

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Speaker 1: called the sixteen nineteen Project. What is it about? It

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Speaker 1: basically states that America was not founded in seventeen seventy six,

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Speaker 1: It was founded in sixteen nineteen, when they claim that

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Speaker 1: slavery first came here, which is actually not true based

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Speaker 1: upon this historical record, it predates sixteen nineteen. But what

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Speaker 1: does the Times say about this project? They write in

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Speaker 1: an editor's note laying out this I believe hundred page

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Speaker 1: special all these articles regarding America's founding as sixteen nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Slavery's arrival inaugurated a barbaric system of chaddle slavery that

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Speaker 1: would last for the next two hundred and fifty years.

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Speaker 1: This is sometimes referred to as the country's original sin,

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Speaker 1: but it is more than that. It is the country's

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Speaker 1: very origin. This editor is no continues, and this is

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Speaker 1: sort of the preamble to this entire project. Out of

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Speaker 1: slavery and the anti black racism it required, grew nearly

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Speaker 1: everything that has truly made America exceptional. And they don't

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Speaker 1: mean exceptional in a positive way here, they mean unique.

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Speaker 1: The editors no continues its economic might, its industrial power,

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Speaker 1: its electoral system, diet and popular music. The inequity is

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Speaker 1: of its public health and education, it's astonishing pension for violence,

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Speaker 1: its income inequality, the example it sets for the world

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Speaker 1: as a land of freedom and equality, it slang, its

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Speaker 1: legal system, and the endemic racial fears and hatreds that

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Speaker 1: continue to plague it to this day. The seeds of

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Speaker 1: all of that were planted long before our official birth

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Speaker 1: date in seventeen seventy six, when the men known as

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Speaker 1: our founders formally declared independence from Britain. The goal of

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Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen Project, a major initiative from The New

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Speaker 1: York Times that this issue of the magazine inaugurates, is

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Speaker 1: to reframe American history by considering what it would mean

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Speaker 1: to regard sixteen nineteen as our nation's birth year. Doing

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Speaker 1: so requires us to place the consequences of slavery and

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Speaker 1: the contributions of black Americans at the very center of

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Speaker 1: the story we tell ourselves about who we are as

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Speaker 1: a country. Now. It is, of course impair if for

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Speaker 1: any country to look at its history with queer eyes

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Speaker 1: warts and all. But on the left you notice that

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Speaker 1: they don't actually ever really focus on the good of

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Speaker 1: this country, the uniqueness of this experiment, even when we

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Speaker 1: failed to live up to our ideals. They want to

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Speaker 1: buy this sixteen nineteen project, in their own words, reframe

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Speaker 1: the country's history, placing the consequences, in their words, of

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Speaker 1: slavery at the very center of the story we tell

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Speaker 1: ourselves about who we are. How does that manifest itself

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Speaker 1: in this project? Well, the project talks about the brutality

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Speaker 1: of American capitalism. It casts modern conservatives as nullificationists who

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Speaker 1: basically take their political cues from John Calhoun. In one article,

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Speaker 1: four claims are made quote our democracies founding ideals were

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Speaker 1: false when they were in the United States as a

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Speaker 1: nation founded on both an ideal and a lie. One

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Speaker 1: of the primary reasons the colonists decided to declare their

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Speaker 1: independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the

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Speaker 1: institution of slavery. When it came time to draft the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: the framers carefully constructed a document that preserved and protected

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Speaker 1: slavery without ever using the word Every one of these

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Speaker 1: points is wrong. But this is the view that underlies

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Speaker 1: an entire project to recast our history as fundamentally an

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Speaker 1: evil one with an evil that's pervaded every single institution

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Speaker 1: and lives on in everything that we see in society today.

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Speaker 1: So if you hate the country, if you believe that

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Speaker 1: it's founded on a lie, if you say that we're hypocritical,

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Speaker 1: that all of our institutions are fundamentally flawed, then why

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Speaker 1: would you defend this country. You wouldn't. And that's why

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Speaker 1: the progressives would say, Look, morality, justice, virtue requires overturning

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Speaker 1: all of these institutions. And it isn't just about the

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Speaker 1: history By the way, although they would have you believe

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Speaker 1: that this is solely a history project, it's about the

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Speaker 1: present because, as we saw revealed by swayat an internal

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Speaker 1: conversation of The New York Times talked about the fact

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Speaker 1: that because they screwed up on the whole Russian narrative,

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Speaker 1: they got it wrong, they're shifting their focus now to

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Speaker 1: racism and its relationship to the Trump presidency. One of

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Speaker 1: the staffers during that meeting said this, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read it in part. They say that racism should be

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Speaker 1: the starting point for stories, you know, and I'm quoting here,

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Speaker 1: like these conversations about what is racist, what isn't racist.

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Speaker 1: I just feel like racism is in everything. It should

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Speaker 1: be considered in our science reporting and our culture reporting,

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Speaker 1: in our national reporting, and so to me, it's less

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Speaker 1: about the individual instances of racism and sort of we're

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Speaker 1: thinking about racism and white supremacy as the foundation of

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Speaker 1: all of the systems in the country. And I think,

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Speaker 1: particularly as we are launching a sixteen nineteen project, I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's going to open us up to even

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Speaker 1: more criticism from people who are like, Okay, well you're

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Speaker 1: saying this, and you're producing this big project about this

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Speaker 1: for you guys actually considering this in your daily reporting,

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Speaker 1: and then Dean Backey, senior executive at The New York Times,

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Speaker 1: he responds, I do think that race and understanding of

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Speaker 1: race should be a part of how we covered the

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Speaker 1: American story. Sometimes news organizations sort of forget that in

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Speaker 1: the moment, but of course it should be. I mean,

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Speaker 1: one reason we all signed off on the sixteen nineteen

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Speaker 1: project and made it so ambitious and expansive was to

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Speaker 1: teach our readers to think a little bit more like

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Speaker 1: that race in the next year. And I think this

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Speaker 1: is to be frank, what I would hope you come

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Speaker 1: away from this discussion with race in the next year

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Speaker 1: is going to be a huge part of the American story.

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Speaker 1: And I mean race not only in terms of African

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Speaker 1: Americans in the relationship with Donald Trump, but Latino is

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Speaker 1: an immigration and I think that one of the things

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Speaker 1: I would love to come out of this with is

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Speaker 1: for people to feel very comfortable coming to me and

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Speaker 1: saying here's how I would like you to consider telling

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Speaker 1: that story. So the sixteen nineteen project is a fundamental

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Speaker 1: part of what the Times the elite is trying to

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Speaker 1: put forth, which is a narrative about history, which says

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Speaker 1: that we're a horrible country, a terrible experiment, and that

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Speaker 1: slavery pervades everything today ultimately, and then also that it's

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Speaker 1: an essential part of twenty twenty and beating Trump. I

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Speaker 1: challenged this sixteen nineteen project in a tweet, and I

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Speaker 1: faced a monumental ratio. Ink. I mean, I had the

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Speaker 1: blue check mark brigade coming at me night and day

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Speaker 1: for days. It continues to this day because I challenged

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Speaker 1: one of their tweets. One of their tweets said, each

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Speaker 1: of the stories in the sixteen nineteen project takes up

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Speaker 1: a modern phenomenon and reveals its history, from the lack

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Speaker 1: of healthcare to mass incarceration, from the brutality of capitalism

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Speaker 1: to the epidemic of sugar. No part of America has

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Speaker 1: been untouched by slavery. And I responded this way, I said,

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Speaker 1: quote contrary to its stated goal is it appears the

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Speaker 1: purpose of the sixteen nineteen project is to delegitimize America

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Speaker 1: and further divide and demoralize its citizenry. I got attacked

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Speaker 1: for that. I was called a racist, a moron, a hypocrite,

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Speaker 1: ignorant of history, a quote unquote fragile white person. And

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Speaker 1: then of course we got a lot of tweets about

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Speaker 1: who funds the Federalist. They love that one. When we

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Speaker 1: come back, I want to expound upon what I was

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Speaker 1: talking about in that tweet. I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: why I believe this project is so detrimental, and I

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Speaker 1: want to counter some of the narratives put forth in it.

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Speaker 1: This is Ben Weegarden in for Buck Sexon on the

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Speaker 1: Buck Sexon Show. We'll wait back right after this. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the Buck sex and Show. This is Ben

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Speaker 1: Weingarten in for Buck Sexton, and we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: New York Times as sixteen nineteen project, which, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: I think is representative of what really unites the left today,

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Speaker 1: which is a national self loathing and a belief that

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Speaker 1: we've been a fundamental immoral country from the start and

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Speaker 1: the only way to fix it is to turn our

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Speaker 1: institutions on their heads. I want to correct some of

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Speaker 1: that history that I discuss that The New York Times

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Speaker 1: puts forth in this project. Before we bring on our

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Speaker 1: first guest tonight. They talk about the fact that in

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Speaker 1: the Constitution it was about preserving slavery, and essentially the

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Speaker 1: Founders had no issues with it. Let's actually look at

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Speaker 1: what some of the Founders said about slavery. Here's George

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Speaker 1: Washington in seventeen eighty six. And I'm just I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: put this fourth because it's imperative to know this history

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Speaker 1: because in the absence of a competing narrative, the left

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Speaker 1: will always win. They talk about balance, there will be

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Speaker 1: no balance. And by the way this they built a

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Speaker 1: whole curriculum around this sixteen nineteen project, which they're trying

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Speaker 1: to push out to thousands of schools across the country.

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Speaker 1: Here's George Washington seventeen eighty six. There's not a man

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Speaker 1: living who wishes is more sincerely than I do to

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Speaker 1: see a plan adopted for the abolition of it that

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Speaker 1: is slavery. John Adams eighteen nineteen. Every measure of prudence

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Speaker 1: ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of

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Speaker 1: slavery from the United States. I have, through my whole

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Speaker 1: life held the practice of slavery in abhorrence. Ben Franklin

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Speaker 1: seventeen eighty nine. Slavery is an atrocious debasement of human nature.

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Speaker 1: Alexander Hamilton seventeen ninety five. The laws of certain states

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Speaker 1: given ownership in the service of slaves as personal property.

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Speaker 1: But being men by the laws of God and nature,

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Speaker 1: they were capable of acquiring liberty, and when the captain

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Speaker 1: and war thought fit to give them liberty, the gift

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Speaker 1: was not only valid, but irrevocable. James Madison seventeen eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: We have seen the mere distinction of color made in

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Speaker 1: the most enlightened people of time a ground of the

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Speaker 1: most oppressive dominion ever exercised by man over man. You

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Speaker 1: want to talk about what the founders thought about this

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Speaker 1: from political perspective, well, contrary to how the left would

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Speaker 1: portray it. The three fifth compromised itself was not about

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Speaker 1: legitimizing slavery. It was about trying to reduce the power

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Speaker 1: of the South. See, the South wanted each slave to

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Speaker 1: be counted as one person, one vote to increase their power.

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Speaker 1: The Three Fifths Compromise was about decreasing Southern power. With

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Speaker 1: respect to the Constitution, the importation of slaves was guaranteed

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Speaker 1: to persist only for twenty years following in the signing

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Speaker 1: of the Constitution, which was a compromise with the South.

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Speaker 1: And Jefferson signed into law federal prohibition of the slave

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Speaker 1: trade the day that it was supposed to expire. That

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Speaker 1: provision no longer prevailed on January one, eighteen o eight.

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Speaker 1: Here's what Lincoln said. The argument of necessity was the

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Speaker 1: only argument they, the Founders, ever admitted in favor of slavery,

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Speaker 1: and so far only as it carried them did they

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Speaker 1: ever go. They found the institution existing among us which

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Speaker 1: they could not help, and they cast blame upon the

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Speaker 1: British King for having permitted its introduction before the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: They prohibited its introduction into the Northwestern Territory, the only

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Speaker 1: country we owned then free from it. At the framing

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Speaker 1: and adoption of the tuition, they forbore to so much

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Speaker 1: as mentioned the word slave or slavery in the whole instrument.

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Speaker 1: In the provision for the Recovery of fugitives, the swave

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Speaker 1: is spoken of as a person held to service or labor.

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Speaker 1: In that prohibiting the abolition of the African slave trade

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Speaker 1: for twenty years that I just mentioned. That trade is

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Speaker 1: spoken of as the migration or importation of such persons

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Speaker 1: as any of the states now existing shall think proper

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Speaker 1: to admit these are the only provisions alluding to slavery.

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Speaker 1: Thus the thing is hid away in the Constitution, just

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Speaker 1: as an afflicted man hides away a when or a

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Speaker 1: cancer which he dares not cut out at once lest

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Speaker 1: he bleed to death. With the promise, nevertheless, that the

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Speaker 1: cutting may begin at the end of a given time.

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Speaker 1: Less than this our fathers could not do, and now

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Speaker 1: more they would not do. Necessity drove them so far,

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Speaker 1: and farther they would not go. But this is not all.

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Speaker 1: The earliest Congress under the Constitution took the same view

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Speaker 1: of slavery. They hedged and hemmed it into the narrowest

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Speaker 1: limits of necessity. Lincoln added, the play and unmistakable spirit

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Speaker 1: of that age towards slavery was hostility to the principle,

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Speaker 1: and toleration only by necessity. Here's what Frederick Douglas said

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Speaker 1: about it. The charge of a pro slavery constitution, in

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Speaker 1: his words, is quote a slander upon the memory of

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Speaker 1: the founders. He added, interpreted as it ought to be interpreted,

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Speaker 1: the Constitution is a glorious liberty document. He wrote, the

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Speaker 1: Constitution according to its plan reading, and I define the

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Speaker 1: presentation of a single pro slavery cause in it, on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, it will be found to contain principles

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Speaker 1: and purposes entirely hostile to the existence of slavery. And

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Speaker 1: I'll close with this. This is eighteen fifty seven Douglas,

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Speaker 1: responding to the dread Scott decision. I base my sense

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Speaker 1: of the certain overthrow of slavery in part upon the

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Speaker 1: nature of the American government, the Constitution, the tendencies of

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Speaker 1: the age, and the character of the American people. I

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Speaker 1: know of no soil better adopted to the growth of

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Speaker 1: reform than American soil. I know of no country where

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Speaker 1: the conditions for affecting great changes in the settled order

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Speaker 1: of things, for the development of right, ideas of liberty

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Speaker 1: and humanity are more favorable than here in these United States.

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Speaker 1: The Constitution, as well as the Declaration of Independence and

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Speaker 1: the sentiments of the founders of the Republic, give us

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Speaker 1: a platform broad enough and strong enough to support the

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Speaker 1: most comprehensive plans for the freedom and elevation of all

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Speaker 1: the people of this country, without regard to color, class,

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Speaker 1: or climb. America may have violated its founding principles to

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Speaker 1: the detriment of our national soul, but we have striven

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Speaker 1: to overcome those errors the Left would have us believe otherwise,

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Speaker 1: that we're still fundamentally evil. This has Ben Winegarden in

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Speaker 1: for Buck Sex and on the Buck Sex and Show.

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Speaker 1: We'll be talking more about this project right after this break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Buck Sex and Show. This is

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Speaker 1: Ben Winegarten in four Buck Sex and here at the

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Speaker 1: bottom of our one live from New York, the Freedom

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Speaker 1: Hut in the Not so Free New York. We've been

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Speaker 1: talking and we're going to spend this full hour talking

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Speaker 1: about the sixteen nineteen projects because because I think it's

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Speaker 1: so essential to understand the importance the criticality of the

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Speaker 1: left's view of history being put forth, how it manifests

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Speaker 1: itself in our politics, and also what it means for

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Speaker 1: the country. If you view our history as one which

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Speaker 1: paints the nation as fundamentally immoral evil, of course you're

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Speaker 1: going to justify your revolution because it's the only moral, virtuous,

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Speaker 1: just thing to do. Social justice will require turning all

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Speaker 1: of these institutions on their head if they're fundamentally immoral,

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Speaker 1: stemming from a fundamentally immoral institution. What I tried to

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Speaker 1: do before this last break was lay out a view

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Speaker 1: of the Founding that conflicts with the view that's put

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Speaker 1: forth by the sixteen nineteen Project writers. The reason I

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Speaker 1: did that is because if you get the Founding wrong,

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Speaker 1: then everything else in their theory falls also, and it's

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Speaker 1: important to get the history right. It's imperative to get

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Speaker 1: to history right. If you hate your national narrative, how

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Speaker 1: can you love your country? How can you offend it

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Speaker 1: ultimately unless you are defending something that is fundamentally transformed.

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Speaker 1: And that is how, incidentally, the progressives are able to

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Speaker 1: paint their patriotism as truly being patriotic and in standing

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Speaker 1: with the Founders because it's revolutionary right, it's progressing towards

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Speaker 1: with they progressives define as our actual values and principles,

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Speaker 1: rather than the fact that in reality, what they're putting

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Speaker 1: forth is a regressive system. Someone who I think agrees

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Speaker 1: with my take on this, at least to a degree,

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Speaker 1: and who sought to take the sixteen nineteen Project folks

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Speaker 1: to task for their portrayal of modern conservatism and its

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Speaker 1: relationship to the institution of slavery, is John Daniel Davidson.

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Speaker 1: John is a senior correspondent at The Federalist, and he

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Speaker 1: wrote a great piece titled the Ghost of John C.

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Speaker 1: Calhoun Haunts Today's American Life, and John joins us right now, John,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the program. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me so. I found your piece to be very provocative,

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Speaker 1: telling a needed corrective to what we get from the left,

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Speaker 1: and I should know it here that you were taking

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Speaker 1: to task Jamel Bowie, one of the leading lights on

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Speaker 1: the left and one of the leading writers in the

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Speaker 1: sixteen nineteen Project, who attacked me personally for my tweet

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Speaker 1: when I wrote quote contrary to its stated goal, As

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Speaker 1: it appears, the purpose of the sixteen nineteen project is

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Speaker 1: to deogitimize America and further divide and demoralize its citizenry.

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Speaker 1: Do you see the sixteen nineteen project as I do.

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Speaker 1: I do. I've been listening, and the way you've described it,

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Speaker 1: I think is very accurate in every way. And I

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Speaker 1: should add that you know Jamel Bowie, for as many

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Speaker 1: flaws as his argument had in the sixteen nineteen Project,

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Speaker 1: his response to you on Twitter was shameful and unfortunately

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Speaker 1: very typical of the way that he interacts with critics. Well,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and look, I think it says something

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Speaker 1: when you strike a chord that requires a personal attack

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Speaker 1: when you're making an argument on substantive grounds. And I

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Speaker 1: think it reflects kind of where the left is and

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Speaker 1: also their lack of actual intellectual rigor when it comes

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Speaker 1: to this, which you bring out in your article. So

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Speaker 1: unpack Booie's argument and then your counter to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Booie essentially is making an argument that the style of

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Speaker 1: politics that is practiced by the modern day Republican Party

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Speaker 1: is more or less an incarnation of the political philosophy

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Speaker 1: of John C. Calhoun. Calhoun, of course, was the architect

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Speaker 1: of succession, the architect of the Confederacy. He laid the

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Speaker 1: philosophical groundwork for the South to be able to secede

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Speaker 1: from the Union and defended slavery as a positive good.

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Speaker 1: So Booie's argument is that the kind of no holds

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Speaker 1: bar rough and tumble politics of of our current political

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Speaker 1: situation on the right in the Republican Party can be

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Speaker 1: traced to John C. Calhoun's support for slavery. If that

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Speaker 1: sounds like a ridiculous argument to you, I assure your

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Speaker 1: listeners it is a ridiculous argument. But he attempts to

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Speaker 1: make it anyway, and specifically points to Mitch McConnell's use

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Speaker 1: of the syllabuster during the Obama presidency with judicial nominees

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Speaker 1: as evidence of a latent Calhounism in the modern GOP.

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Speaker 1: I think it bears noting, of course, as an aside,

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Speaker 1: that you cast the left as as John Calhoun haunting them. Well, look,

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Speaker 1: in terms of nullification, I mean, how would you define

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Speaker 1: a sanctuary city? Is that not a nullification style policy exactly?

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Speaker 1: And that is the thrust of my argument. This is

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Speaker 1: an argument that I've made before at the Federalist and

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Speaker 1: always drives people on the left crazy because it's sort of,

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Speaker 1: you know, Caliban's horror of seeing himself in the mirror. Right,

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Speaker 1: they can't accept and they don't want to accept the

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Speaker 1: legacy of John C. Calhoun. But that is their legacy.

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Speaker 1: And let me explain why quickly. John C. Calhoun disagreed

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Speaker 1: with the founders, and he was very explicit about that.

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Speaker 1: He was looking for a new philosophical basis on which

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Speaker 1: to base the American regime. He rejected the natural law

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Speaker 1: that the founders of the of the of the Country espoused.

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Speaker 1: He rejects the rights, the immutable rights of man. He

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Speaker 1: rejected the basis of social and political organization on which

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Speaker 1: the constitutional system was built, and instead he tried to

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Speaker 1: introduce these new ideas that were based on kind of

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Speaker 1: faddish nineteenth century science and Darwinism, essentially enabling him to

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Speaker 1: argue contra the Founders, that slavery was a positive good

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Speaker 1: and that it was part and parcel it was a

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Speaker 1: foundational necessity to the American regime, which incidentally is what

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Speaker 1: the New York Times is arguing with their sixteen nineteen project.

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Speaker 1: But the similarity between the modern progressives and John C.

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Speaker 1: Calhoun is that they both reject the Founding, They reject

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Speaker 1: natural law, they reject the constitutional system that our country

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Speaker 1: was built on, and they want to replace it with

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Speaker 1: something else. And of course, the Declaration and the Constitution

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Speaker 1: and our Founding was incompatible with the practice of slavery.

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Speaker 1: It completely undermines it, exactly exactly. And that's and that, really,

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Speaker 1: I think is the point of disagreement. I think the

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Speaker 1: New York Times in the sixteen nineteen project writers would say, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not that the Constitution and the Declaration and the

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Speaker 1: Founding are incompatible with slavery. It's they were being cynical,

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Speaker 1: and they were lying and they weren't and they were

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Speaker 1: lying through their teeth and kind of a wink wink,

431
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: nod not. But the problem was that historical interpretation is

432
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: that it doesn't explain any of the things that actually

433
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: happened in American history, especially during the Sounding era, where

434
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: you have example after example, and a lot of people

435
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: on the right, including some of the Federals, has done

436
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: a good job this week of going through the historical

437
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: record and showing that contrary to a lot of the

438
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: claims in the sixteen nineteen project, there was a very

439
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: robust movement during the Founding era to eradicate slavery, and

440
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: that many of the founders, including some in the South,

441
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: saw that slavery was incompatible with the new American regime

442
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: and knew that it was on its way out and

443
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: it was just a matter of time. And it wasn't

444
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: until the second generation of American statesmen and leaders came

445
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: in with John C. Calhoun in the eighteen twenties who decided, no,

446
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 1: we're not we can't get rid of slavery because these

447
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: new industrial pressures on Southern the Southern industry, and we

448
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: have to come up with a new philosophical basis for

449
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: preserving slavery. To do that, we've got to attack the founders.

450
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,239
Speaker 1: I'm just curious and you're reading, can you understand this

451
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: argument at the at the in the final analysis ultimately

452
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: to be anything other than this is a way to

453
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: kind of smear conservatives who are actually competitive politically. In

454
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: other words, it's the same thing of you know, you're

455
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: a racist, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc. Being applied to people who's

456
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: viewed you disagree with. In this case, it's trying to

457
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: intellectualize the fact that conservatives who are actually competitive politically

458
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: are are racist and thus fundamentally illegitimate. Absolutely, I think

459
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: that's absolutely what it is. I think that's worth very

460
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: well put. I would also add, I think that is

461
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: that is what Jamal Bowie has built his career on

462
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: for the most part, is imputing racist motives to political

463
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: and ideological opponents. In this piece that we're talking about

464
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: out in the New York Times, he all but says

465
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: that the Republican Party, from Mitch McConnell to the state

466
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: Republican parties of Wisconsin and Michigan and all over the

467
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: country are racists and pursue racist policies and engage in

468
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: politics and the spirit, and with the inspiration of John C. Calhoun,

469
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: the attempt is a kind of short circuit or shortcut

470
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: around having to actually hash out these intellectual and historical arguments.

471
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: And I think it's telling that the left always goes here,

472
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: always goes to accusations of racism and bigotry, because I

473
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: think somewhere deep inside they know that their arguments can't

474
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: stand on their own. I would also suggest that the

475
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: party that has now made an art out of working

476
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: and Thomas ing and cavn Eying trying to attack the

477
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: Republicans for cutthroat politics is really quite amazing, and I

478
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: would suggest it's just another example of the projection that

479
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: comes from the left. It's amazing. It's amazing to think

480
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: that the Democrats and people on the left would would

481
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: look at the past ten or fifteen years and think, oh,

482
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: the Republicans are the extreme ones. You know, we have

483
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: to remember how people talked about Mitt Romney in two

484
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: thousand and twelves of all people that here was this racist, misogynist,

485
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: uh you know, Robert Baron, who was the worst thing

486
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: to ever happen to America, that he was nominated to

487
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: be the president of a major political party. Mitt Romney, Uh,

488
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's what the left did. They and

489
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: they really poisoned the well um of our political discourse

490
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: throughout the Obama years. And I think they did it

491
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: because they thought that they was going to be an

492
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: unbroken ascendency of the Democratic Party and the progressive left

493
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: in this country. And Trump's election upended all of that.

494
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: So in a couple of minutes we have left. I

495
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: want to be fair to Buoy here, probably fair in

496
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: a way he would not be to us. And I

497
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: want to quote from the conclusion of his essay in

498
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen Project and get your response to it.

499
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: He writes, And I quote. You could make the case

500
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: that none of this has anything to do with slavery

501
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: and slaveholder ideology. You could argue that it has nothing

502
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: to do with race at all, that it's simply an

503
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: aggressive effort to secure conservative victories. But the tenor of

504
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: an argument, the shape and nature of an opposition movement,

505
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: these things matter. The goals may be color blind, but

506
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: the methods of action, the attacks on the legitimacy of

507
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: non white political actors, the casting of rival political majorities

508
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: as unrepresentative. The drive to nullify democratically elected governing coalitions

509
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: are clearly downstream of a style of extreme political combat

510
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: that came to fruition in the defense of human bondage.

511
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: How do you respond to that? I think that you

512
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: could easily make an argument that the tactics and methods

513
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: of the volitionist movement in the North, where justice cut

514
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: throat just his revolutionary uh, just as as no holds

515
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: bars as those of the South. Uh. You know, political

516
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: warfare on both sides is nothing new in this country.

517
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: I think he hits on at the end, and I

518
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: think it was a sort of a moment, whether he

519
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 1: meant it as one or not. He conceives that he

520
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: hasn't really man made his case. Uh. And and he

521
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: and he unwittingly hits upon the actual explanation uh for

522
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: for for the things that he describes in the modern

523
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: Democratic party. Uh, it doesn't have anything to do with race.

524
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: It has everything to do with securing conservative victories. Uh

525
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: and and doing the best you can in a really

526
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: tough political environment. The fact that he chucks it up

527
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: the race, I think says more about about his motives

528
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 1: and the motives of the left than it does the

529
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: Republican Party and the right. So in about thirty seconds

530
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: to kind of wrap it up, how would you describe

531
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: what the stakes are if the sixteen nineteen Project is

532
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: to prevail into the academy in the culture, what is

533
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: at stake here? I think a lot is at stake,

534
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: and I think it's telling that the sixteen nineteen Project

535
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: is also rolling out materials and curricula for public schools

536
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: and for school aged kids and high schoolers to be

537
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: able to engage with American history on the term set

538
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: by the sixteen nineteen Project. This is something that conservatives

539
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: have said for a long time, but we're starting to

540
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: see it more and more now. What starts in the academy,

541
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: what starts in the Ivy League doesn't stay there. It

542
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: stilters out into the rest of society, into public schools,

543
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: into the media, into professional organizations in corporate America. And

544
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: so we need to take it seriously, and it deserves

545
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: every effort to push back against it and to persuade

546
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: people that this is a wrong way to think about

547
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: American history and especially about the American founding. We've been

548
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: speaking with John Daniel Davidson, a senior correspondent at The Federalist,

549
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: and I urge you to read his exceptional piece, The

550
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: Ghost of John C. Calhoun Haunts Today's American left over

551
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: at the Federalist. John, thank you so much for joining

552
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: us tonight. Thanks for having me appreciate it. This has

553
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: Ben Wangeran in for Buck Sexon on the Buck Sexton Show.

554
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: Be back right after this. Welcome back to the Buck

555
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: Sexton Show. This has Ben Weingarten in for Buck Sexon.

556
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: Just have a couple minutes left here in our one

557
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: and an hour two we'll be talking about US China policy,

558
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: looking around the world at some of the threats and

559
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: opportunities for the US. But I did want to talk

560
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: and close with just a brief discussion on the importance

561
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: of understanding why the attack on those who would criticize

562
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: this sixteen nineteen project is telling it's not about me.

563
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: I can deal with the blue check mark Brigrade coming

564
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: after me and calling me all sorts of names and

565
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: attacking me as a person, but it's that they don't

566
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: want to engage in a substantive debate. That's why when

567
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: you say that a project is about X y Z,

568
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: not a person, not an individual, not a group of people,

569
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: but a project is fundamentally, in my view, wrong, detrimental

570
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: to the society. When they attack you personally, it's because

571
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: they don't want to make a substantive argument. These people

572
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: are engaging in a sort of narcissistic projection and a

573
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: virtue signaling. When the social justice warrior mob forms, it's

574
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: about feeling good about themselves and knowing that you're a

575
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: bad person. They're opposing a bad person and that makes

576
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: them good. So when they claim that my response was

577
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: in bad faith, they were the ones responding and operating

578
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: in bad faith. And that's a real problem as a

579
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: society when you can't debate anything on the merits and

580
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: a person is de facto either evil or good, and

581
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: thus right or wrong based upon their political ideology. What

582
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: this really comes down to, ultimately is that the left,

583
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: the progressives, they want their cultural revolution to go on unimpeded,

584
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: and they're counting on people not to fight back on

585
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: the merits. In this case, the Times wants to change history.

586
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: They want this incorporated into curriculum around the country. And

587
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: if national self loathing predominates, who is going to defend

588
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: this country? You'd feel the need to overthrow it. Anyone

589
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: who's not a progressive would be a fundamentally horrible person.

590
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: That's the purpose of the sixteen nineteen project. Progressivism demands

591
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: the overthrow in the sixteen nineteen project. It's just a

592
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: part of it, overthrowing our institution. This has Ben Weegarden

593
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: for Buck Sexon. We'll be back right after this. Welcome

594
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: back to the Buck Sexon Show. This is Ben Weingarten

595
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: in four Buck Sexon. Thanks for taking the time to

596
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: join us on this busy Friday night. All right, Well,

597
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: probably the biggest story in the news today is concerning

598
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: the President Trump's an American policy visa vie the Chinese,

599
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: and he put out a couple of tweets that I

600
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: would argue and this may be an overstatement, but I

601
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: don't think it is. He wrote, in part, our country

602
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 1: has lost stupidly trillions of dollars with China over many years.

603
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: They have stolen our intellectual property at a rate of

604
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: hundreds of billions of dollars a year, and they want

605
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: to continue. I won't let that happen. We don't need

606
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: China and frankly would be far better off without them.

607
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: The vast amounts of money made and stolen by China

608
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: from the United States year after year for decades, will

609
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: and must stop. Our great American companies are hereby ordered

610
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, and

611
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: he goes on from there. What he is saying, effectively

612
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: is American businesses should look to completely restructure themselves. In

613
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: many cases, China has been a huge source of labor

614
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: factories US owned factories there. Multinational corporations have substantial operations there.

615
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: China's obviously a huge market for American goods and services,

616
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: and President Trump is threatening basically to collapse China's economy.

617
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: In effect, this is a These are radical words relative

618
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: to where the establishment has been, and of course this

619
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: was in response to the Chinese government today arguing that

620
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: actually putting back reimposing tariffs, and I believe seventy five

621
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: billion dollars worth of US goods and services to be purchased.

622
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: So there's an excavation here. And what the President is

623
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: saying is enough of this cosmetic sort of measures, We're

624
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: going to threaten the whole thing. Here to join me

625
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: as someone who has spoken at length and an expert

626
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: on US China policy, also someone responsible for helping craft

627
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: the Trump administration's policy. And that's Rob Spotting. He's a

628
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. He served in senior

629
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: positions of strategy and diplomacy within both the State and

630
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: Defense Departments for more than twenty six years, and he

631
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: most recently served, as I mentioned, as Senior Director for

632
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: Strategy for President Trump, where he was the chief architect

633
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: of the Framework for National Competition in the Trump Administration's

634
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: National Security strategy, which, as I've mentioned at length before,

635
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: was monumental in that it flipped on its head the

636
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: idea that has underlied our US China policy for decades

637
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: that economic liberalization would lead to political liberalization, when that

638
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: clearly has not happened. Rob, thank you so much for

639
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: joining us today. Great to be here. Thank you. Okay,

640
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: So let's get right to it. What do you make

641
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: of the president's tweets? Well, I think he's finally realized

642
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: that the Chinese don't want to have a deal. You know.

643
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: I think day back when they tore up the fifty

644
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: pages of the one hundred and fifty page agreement they

645
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: negotiated with Lightheiser, they had essentially decided worst case scenario,

646
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: they were willing to decouple the Chinese economy from the

647
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: American economy. I think the President and has realized if

648
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: finally and has decided that we need to actually do

649
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: the same. And the most important thing that I think

650
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: he's realized is that while American companies, probably forty percent

651
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: of them today, they're starting to move their supply chains

652
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: to other places, they're not moving them to the United States.

653
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: And so he's really focused on how do we get

654
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: those companies to start reshoring manufacturing for the American people.

655
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: As a practical matter, what does it mean when the

656
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: President says that great American companies are hereby ordered to

657
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: immediately start looking for an alternative to China. Well as

658
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: a practical matter, I think he's putting them on notice

659
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: that there are going to be incentives for those companies

660
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: that move their manufacturing into the United States, and those

661
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: going to be distance centers for those that don't, and

662
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: those distance enters will probably most likely come in the

663
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: form of pariffs on those companies that choose not to

664
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: move their manufacturing operations. Now, one of the things I

665
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,240
Speaker 1: tweeted right after that was a president and the administration

666
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: needs to think about using the Defense Production Act Title

667
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: three and other incentives to actually incentivize these companies to

668
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: move manufacturing back to the United States, not only because

669
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: it will help grow jobs in the economy, but things

670
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: like circuit boards for US thirty fives can be manufactured

671
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: in the United States. Is it fair to think about

672
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: and I've thought about this analogy a little bit. For example,

673
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: if you look at Iran's constitution, and bear with me

674
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: on this kind of thread, if you look at Iran's constitution,

675
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: it says that their economy is dedicated to expanding their

676
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: Islamic revolution. And I see something parallel with the Chinese

677
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: Communist Party, where it's very clear that basically all of

678
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: their businesses are dual use businesses. That is, they have

679
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: civilian applications, but in reality, it is all about strengthening

680
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: their regime. At the end of the day, what do

681
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: you think it would mean if we were to couple

682
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: and do you see that sort of parallel of in

683
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: some sense, the Chinese economy, for the Chinese government is

684
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: an element of their competition against the US. And it's

685
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: not because they just want to be prosperous. It's because

686
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: they want to be dominant in other words, the economy

687
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: serves a strategic purpose rather than one for the good

688
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: of the Chinese people. Yeah, I think that's what the

689
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: National Security Strategy tried to point out, was that economics

690
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: and information actually were the competitive space of the twenty

691
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: first century. Currently people are complaining about the tariff's farming

692
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: free trade. In reality, China doesn't have a market economy.

693
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: They don't practice free trade. In fact, they have a

694
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: closed economy. They have a protectionist slant in their own economy,

695
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 1: preventing foreign companies from actually making a profit or doing

696
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: well or even competing on an equal basis, while at

697
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: the same time they subsidize their companies who are protected

698
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: at home, to go out and be dominant abroad. So

699
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. They grow these global champions as a

700
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: of exerting influence over the globe. They realize that military

701
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: might and warfare had really lost its usefulness in the era,

702
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: in the post nuclear era and certainly in post Cold

703
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: War era with globalization and the Internet. It provides that

704
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: openness provided them opportunities to essentially turn those strengths, those

705
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: typical strengths of open democracies into vulnerabilities. Leaving aside the

706
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: question of whether any sort of trade pact that deals

707
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: with the myriad issues, whether it's intellectual property theft or

708
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: the disadvantaging of foreign companies in mainland China, or any

709
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: of the other ways in which it's effectively an unfair

710
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: bargain that exists today on top of China's actual espionage

711
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: and stealing of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of

712
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: technology are forcing companies to bring it there. Leaving aside

713
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: that enforceability question, why he would it be in China's

714
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: interest to come to any sort of deal if they

715
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: believe that nixing any deal means that the president is

716
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: a one term president. Well, I think they're under their false,

717
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: mistaken assumption that they can actually make their closed economy

718
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: actually innovative. They've been able to essentially access innovation, talent, technology,

719
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: and capital to from the West in order to grow

720
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: their economy and to increase their technological superiority, and so

721
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: I think making a deal would have allowed them some

722
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: more space to create the kind of dominance that they're

723
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: looking for. And unfortunately, I think they've shot themselves in

724
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: the foot because as we begin to the couple, their

725
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: ability to continue to grow that economy to continue to

726
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: advance their science and technology is going to be severely crippled. Now,

727
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: financial markets, as expected, have been quite jittery every time

728
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: the President sort of fleck is America's muscles relative to China,

729
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: and every time China responds with its own belicosity. If

730
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: you were advising the president, how would you describe to

731
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: him the way that he should make the case to

732
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: American businesses that it is in the US national interest

733
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: and their own financial self interest and the fiduciary duty

734
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: that they have to their shareholders to actually support a

735
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: China policy that really has real teeth and actually brings

736
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: commerce back to the US. Well, the problem with businesses

737
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: that they need stability, they need certainty. Currently, with the

738
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: tariffs and the trade war, we have uncertainty. So the

739
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: first thing I would tell them to do is make

740
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: the tariffs permanent. Give some certainty to the businesses that

741
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: you're not going to pull the rug out from under

742
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: them when they've made a ninety million dollar investment and

743
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: a new factor in the United States, then help them

744
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: a little bit. Use the Defense Production Act and Title three,

745
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: the authorities that the Defense Department has to build up

746
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: the industry trial base to help, you know, offer loan

747
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: incentives or even grants to these companies that are willing

748
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: to take a chance on an investment and then go

749
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: around and begin to as they're already doing. Improve the

750
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: trade agreements that we have around the world with all

751
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: our allies and partners, so that you know, we promote

752
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: labor laws that are consistent of what it's what is

753
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: currently in the United States, environmental laws, protections that are

754
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: currently in the United States, and let's level the playing

755
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: fields for trade. So rather than offshoring your manufacturing to

756
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: places of high labor or low labor protections in low

757
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: environmental protection, make sure that those levels are the same

758
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: level of the United States, so there's not an incentive

759
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: just to go out and pollute and exploit. We've been

760
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: speaking with Rob Spotting, a senior foe at the Hudson

761
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: Institute and a chief architect of the Framework for National

762
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: Competition in the Trump Administration's National Security strategy, and we've

763
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: been talking about Trump's US China policy broadly. We're going

764
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: to take a short break right now, but when we

765
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: come back with Rob, we are going to discuss Hong

766
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: Kong where it fits in in terms of US national

767
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: interest and how it should fit into the President's US

768
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: China policy. This is Ben Winegarden in for Buck Sexon.

769
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: Back after this, Welcome back to the Buck Sexton Show.

770
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: This is Ben Weingarten in for Buck Sexon. And as

771
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: I mentioned in the last segment, we'd come back with

772
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Rob Spotting. He's a senior foe at the Hudson Institute

773
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: and a chief architect of the National Security a national

774
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: competition part of the President's national security strategy. Rob, thanks

775
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: so much for coming back. Thank you. So we have

776
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: seen in recent weeks million plus people marches in the

777
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: streets of Hong Kong. I'm massive percentage of Hong Kong's

778
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: total population, and what folks are marching over, at least

779
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: from a narrow perspective, originally was an extradition law whereby

780
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: Hong Kong and effect would agree to send citizens who

781
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: China claimed committed crime back to mainland China potentially and

782
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,959
Speaker 1: I'm simplifying of course here. This extradition and this fits

783
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: under the framework of what was called the one Nation,

784
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: two systems policy implemented since nineteen ninety seven when it

785
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: was agreed upon that in fifty years that is, in

786
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: twenty forty seven, Hong Kong again would be fully subsumed

787
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: by China. So, first of all, talk a little bit

788
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: about that extradition policy. What would that have meant for

789
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: freedom for the people of Hong Kong. Well, essentially, you

790
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: could have been sequestered and then taken back to the

791
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: mainland to face prosecution, you know, And it wasn't just

792
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, are you a protesting student? Is It could

793
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: be just that your business partner on the mainland had

794
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: to have an issue with you and so was able

795
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: to file a lawsuit in the mainland and have that

796
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: serve in Hong Kong and have you extra grided. So

797
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: it actually really impa acted anybody doing business, anybody traveling

798
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: between the two between the mainland and Hong Kong, or

799
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: anybody that in any way became a problem for the

800
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party to the extent that they could essentially

801
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: rendition them back to the mainland to face prosecution. And

802
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: of course there's no rule of law, there's no due

803
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 1: process there, and so essentially they were violating the one

804
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: country two systems because Hong Kong has rule of law,

805
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: they have due process, and they've been encroaching on Hong

806
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: Kong's liberty. For a number of years now, there's been

807
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: sort of a creeping hand of power from the Chinese

808
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: Communist Party, where for example, the slats of candidates for

809
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: office in Hong Kong need to be approved by the

810
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party. They've cracked down on certain booksellers who

811
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: put out materials that the Chinese Communist Party find essentially

812
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: read in their ideology. Do you see that effectively the

813
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party is it's grip continues to tighten on

814
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: Hong Kong. And where does it ultimately end? Are we

815
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: going to talk about one country, one system decades before

816
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: twenty forty seven, Well, I think we're definitely moving to that,

817
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: to that state. You know, as you know Ledger or

818
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: administrators like Cherry Lamb are schosen and prevented by the

819
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: Communist Party. This was already occurring. The protesters, which have

820
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: the support of most of the population where you've seen,

821
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, if there's a two million people in a

822
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: population of eight million marching in the street, you know,

823
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 1: I think there's they are in it for the long haul.

824
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, they're sitting next to the mainland

825
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 1: with you know, a population at one point four million

826
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: in the might of the people's liberation irony. So at

827
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,959
Speaker 1: some point I believe Jumping is going to get set

828
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: up and concern more importantly with this spreading into the mainland,

829
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: So they're going to move in and at that point

830
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: it will cease to be one country to two systems.

831
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: Of course, the leadership of China has enormous assets in

832
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: Hong Kong and they're they're really concerned about losing that,

833
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: and so it's probably they're going to delay as long

834
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: as they can, but there's going to be a point

835
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,479
Speaker 1: where Jumping is going to have to act in order

836
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: to preserve his rule. Now, Hong Kong engenders widespread support

837
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: on a bipartisan basis because it's a liberal, dynamic, free

838
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 1: market oriented place. It's really an amazing place. I urge

839
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: all of our listeners to go before it is subsumed

840
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: by China the way it seems to be going right now.

841
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: At the same time, there will be many folks who

842
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: will say, look, the US is over extended. What is

843
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: our national interest in this situation? Should we intervene in

844
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: any sort of way? What would you say to those

845
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: who are aware of the US intervening, whether at a

846
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: diplomatic level or beyond with respect to Hong Kong. Well,

847
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, the US has traditionally been the beacon of

848
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: freedom for the world, and you know, after the end

849
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: of the Cold War, we, as you mentioned earlier, stopped

850
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: doing that because we believe that open markets would lead

851
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: to wealth, and wealth would lead to democracy, and essentially,

852
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 1: if we just opened up to to a talent urn regimes,

853
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: they'd eventually get rich and democratized. Of course, we know

854
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: now that that's a failed theory and that actually it's

855
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: important for the United States to be very vocal about

856
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: what it believes in terms of human rights and rule

857
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: of law and civil liberties and democratic principles, because at

858
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: the same time, the Chinese Chinese Party has been very

859
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: vocal about its brand of democracy, and essentially what it

860
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: says is will give you the Chinese people economic freedom,

861
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: but you forfeit all other freedoms. Now, the way they

862
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: actually been able to do that is by being a

863
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: parish toic economy and taking from the open the open

864
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: world in order to provide for their own people economic

865
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: freedom while they suppressed the other freedoms. It doesn't scale

866
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: as a social model to the rest of the world.

867
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: It is really only about how you have this zero

868
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: sum effort going on in one country to essentially take

869
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: from the rest. So it's not a scalable social model

870
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: for governments for the rest of the world. But of

871
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: course China's marketing as that, and we haven't been vocal

872
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: about standing up against that. So in thirty seconds, what

873
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: would you recommend to the president about what our policy

874
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: should be with respect to Hong Kong at this juncture. Well,

875
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: we should support the protesters, say that they're going for

876
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: human rights, democracy and their freedom, and that America stands

877
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: for freedom and we stand with the protesters. We've been

878
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: speaking with Rob Spotting as a senior fellow at the

879
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: Hudson Institute and one of the architects of the administration's

880
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: national security strategy. Rob, thank you so much for joining us.

881
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: Thank you. And this is Ben Wegarten in four Buck

882
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: Sex And on the Buck Sex and show back after this.

883
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Buck Sexton Show. This is Ben

884
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: Weingarten in for Buck Sexton. And this has been a

885
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: particularly busy news day on the China front. And what

886
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: I've spoken about as potentially the most important consequential issue

887
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: on President Trump's agenda, which is fundamentally reorienting US China

888
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: policy towards US national interest, and of course there's much

889
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: handwringing about this manifests itself in all sorts of ways.

890
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: We've talked about the economic element of this, but from

891
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: the Chinese perspective, information warfare is one of the grounds

892
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,919
Speaker 1: in which they compete against us, and there are very

893
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: few sources who are willing to take them on to

894
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: confront the Chinese Communist Party It's totalitarian ideology and the

895
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: threat that it poses. And meanwhile, China engage ages in

896
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: all sorts of information operations overseas, many of them quite subtle.

897
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: We've spoken before on this program about the Confucius Institutes,

898
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: and if you aren't familiar with that, I urge you

899
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: to check out my interview with Rachelle Peterson of the

900
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 1: National Associat Association of Scholars on those Confucious institutes which

901
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: put forth essentially Chinese Communist Party propaganda in Western schools

902
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: and schools around the world. They also, of course, have

903
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: their own media sources worldwide, and they seek to influence

904
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: Western media as well. One of the few outlets out

905
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: there that stands as a counterwit to the Chinese Communist

906
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: Party is The Epic Times, which has grown in stature

907
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: in recent years in no small part due to their

908
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: dogged pursuit of the Spygate narrative that counters the Russia

909
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: Gate narrative. And of course this has led to substantial

910
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: criticism from the left, and this week the left sort

911
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: of response via their own media sources was perhaps most

912
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: prominently on this way through NBC News doing a deep

913
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: investigative dive in which they tried to attack the Epic

914
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: Times its roots, it's business model, etc. Joining me now

915
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: to discuss this whole kerfluffle NBC News investigation and beyond,

916
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: is Stephen Gregory, publisher of the US language edition of

917
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: The Epic Times. Stephen, thanks so much for joining us. Yes, then,

918
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to be on. Okay, so let's take

919
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: this story back a little bit. You were approached and

920
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: your publication was approached by investigators from NBC News several

921
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: months back. And what did they say was the purpose

922
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: of the investigation and what did they ask of you?

923
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 1: They wanted to do a deep dive into our growth

924
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: with Facebook advertisements. But what they asked us about was

925
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: much more than our Facebook advertising. They wanted to know

926
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: about the beliefs of our staff. They wanted to know

927
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: of our staff shared living quarters. They wanted to know

928
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: all kinds of details about who works for The Epoch

929
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: Times and what we do. And we wrote an editorial

930
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: point enough that these questions were inappropriate, that NBC was

931
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: transparently trying to set the stage for a hit piece,

932
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: and we weren't going to cooperate. Now, have you been

933
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: approached in the past by other publications asking these sorts

934
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: of questions? From time to time reporters approach us and

935
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: to want to do a story about I want to

936
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: do a story about what the Epoch Times is. We

937
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: are a unique publication in many ways, We've got a

938
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: unique voice, and recently we've had a lot of influence.

939
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: But this approach by NBC was unusual. This was this

940
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: was reporters transparently had an agenda and wanted to set

941
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: the table for trying to damage us. As you mentioned,

942
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: one of their primary focuses was the use of Facebook,

943
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: the way that NBC News portrayed it in terms of

944
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: the epic time effectively cheer waiting for the Trump administration

945
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: and they wrote, and I'll quote from one of their articles.

946
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: The small New York based nonprofit news outlet has spent

947
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: more than one and a half million dollars on about

948
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: eleven thousand pro Trump advertisements in the last six months,

949
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: according to data from Facebook's advertising archive, more than any

950
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: organization outside of the Trump campaign itself, and more than

951
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: most Democratic president or candidates have spent on their own campaigns.

952
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: How do you respond to that characterization? Oh, that is

953
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: so deeply dishonest at different levels. I mean, first of all,

954
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: these are subscription advertisements. What we do is we do

955
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: lively videos promoting our recent articles, and we put them

956
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: on Facebook ads, and they've been very successful. It's got

957
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: nothing to do with promoting Donald Trump. However, as you

958
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: mentioned in your intro, we have made a specialty out

959
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: of looking into the Spygate narrative, so naturally, and that

960
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: has been what our readers have particularly been interested in.

961
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: So naturally, those videos have often focused on Spygate and

962
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: the these reporters want to present that as being pro

963
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: Trump because it uncovers a uncovers a conspiracy among Obama

964
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: officials to try and take down the Trump presidency. What

965
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: you have here is a failure by NBC to come

966
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: to terms with their gross failure to cover what I

967
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: regard is the most important political scanned our nation's history.

968
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: They completely missed the boat. And not only did they

969
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: missed the boat for most of the last two years

970
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: they knew that there was nothing there. We got the

971
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: story right, and now they want to use that against

972
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: us and labeled a conspiracy theory. It's it's an upside

973
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: down world in this article, and the way that they

974
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: kind of portray their reporting is that by harping on

975
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: the Facebook ad spend of Epic Times. This is why

976
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: Facebook to in NBC News as ban the Epic Times.

977
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: They write, Facebook has banned The Epic Times, a conservative

978
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: news outlet that spent more money on pro tram Facebook

979
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: advertisings than any group other than Trump campaign and continues.

980
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: The decision follows an NBC News report that The Epic

981
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: Times had shifted its spending on Facebook in the last month,

982
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: seemingly in an effort to obfuscate its connection to some

983
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: two million worth of ads that promoted the president and

984
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories about his political enemies. Leaving aside their editorialization

985
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: there of your reportage has Epic Time has been banned

986
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: from Facebook as a result of their investigation. Well, I

987
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: think a question we have to ask is whether NBC

988
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: orchestrated this with Facebook. Facebook, without explanation, stopped our advertising

989
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: on their site in July. We asked them why they

990
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't give us a reason They to prove to all

991
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: the ads we were running, and so it simply didn't

992
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: make any sense. Yes, we began running ads on other

993
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: Facebook pages that we created for that purpose, but the

994
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: ads were advertising subscriptions the Uplook Times. They didn't obfuscate anything.

995
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: There'd be no point in having an advertisement for your

996
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: newspaper if you didn't make it clear that that was

997
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: an advertisement for your newspaper. And so the charge that

998
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: the charge of the NPC making just falls flat on

999
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: its face, as as you know the facts. And of

1000
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: course there's just a fundamental underlying premise, which is if

1001
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: those ads were ineffective, then you would stop issuing them.

1002
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: So clearly you're appealing to an audience. And then it

1003
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: also seems that there's this sort of attempt to cast

1004
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: your reportage as political speech that therefore ought to be regulated.

1005
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: Do you see it that way? This is a freedom

1006
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 1: of the press issue. I mean, NBC disagrees with us

1007
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:48,959
Speaker 1: about our coverage and they want to shut us down.

1008
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: That is my that's in one sense that I believe

1009
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: what is going on here. So yes, this has to

1010
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: do with a disagreement about what the facts are and

1011
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: how to report them. ADS only work if you have

1012
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: a product that people want and people have once they've

1013
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: come to know our product, that we've become very popular.

1014
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: We've grown very rapidly, and that's because they see in

1015
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: us a news out that provides highlights truth in reporting.

1016
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: We want to provide the highest standard or journalism, and

1017
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: this might make other outlets uncomfortable when if you have

1018
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: if you have a reporting that doesn't have an agenda,

1019
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: reporting that isn't trying to trying to twist the fact

1020
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: to reach to reach a preconceived outcome. So I think

1021
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: that's part of the background. But I also think you're

1022
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: intro tied together something else, which is the Chinese communist

1023
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: influence in this country. NBC Universal has got a multibillion

1024
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: dollar project in Beijing. Comcast, its parent country, is broadcasting CCTV.

1025
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: Facebook is flirted with the Chinese communist regime. This is

1026
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: all in the background. One can't know what the precise

1027
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: connections are, but we have to ask whether the Chinese

1028
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: Commist regime isn't isn't isn't playing the piper here and

1029
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: the NBC is dancing to their tune. Yeah, And so

1030
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: what essentially you're suggesting is that at least it bears

1031
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: scrutiny whether or not there's been some sort of coordination,

1032
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: whether overt or implicit, between both Facebook and NBC News,

1033
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: and then also Chinese Communist Party influence on one or

1034
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: both of those firms. I want to ask you what

1035
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: price is your publication paid for opposing the Chinese Communist

1036
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: Party In the past, they have tried to shut us

1037
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: down since we began. We first started, we had bureaus

1038
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: of journalists inside China. We started in the summer of

1039
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: two thousand. In the fall of two thousand, within a

1040
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: few days, all those bureaus were shut down. Several of

1041
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: our members served multi year, multi year terms in prison,

1042
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: some of them ten year terms in prison. They were

1043
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: treated that he might imagine quite brutally. As a very

1044
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: touching story about one chief editor, he was in prisoned

1045
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: when his son was three years old. Two years later,

1046
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: his son came to see him, and his father's hair

1047
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: had all turned white, his face was full of wrinkles.

1048
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: His thirty five year old man. His son took one

1049
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: look at him and screened and said, you're not my

1050
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: father and ran away. This is an image of what

1051
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: the Communist parties are doing to our journalists. So initially, yes,

1052
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: we have had played a terrible price, and since then

1053
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 1: the Communist party officials here in this country and around

1054
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: the world have tried to block advertise us from dealing

1055
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: with us. There have been very suspicious incidents where our

1056
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: newspaper newspapers have been destroyed. Here in Manhattan recently, several

1057
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: newspaper boxes were burned. People who write for us, you know,

1058
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 1: if they're Chinese, though, they will get unwanted calls from

1059
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: the Chinese consulate. There's a long list. But we have survived,

1060
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: and we survived and thrived in spite of the commiss

1061
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: regime's attempt to shut us down. I view this, since

1062
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: it with Facebook, is is very suspicious and it looks

1063
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: like part of a pattern. We've been speaking with Stephen Gregory,

1064
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: publisher of the US language edition of The Epic Times. Stephen,

1065
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Bim. And

1066
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: this is Ben Weinegarden in for Buck Sex And on

1067
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: the Buck Sex and Show. Back just after this, welcome

1068
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: back to the Buck Sex and Show. This is Ben

1069
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: Weinegarden in for Buck Sexton. All right, we were just

1070
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: talking about China. Spent almost an hour on China and

1071
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: it's worth many hours, and in my view, it is

1072
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: the seminal issue when it comes to not just the

1073
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: Trump presidency but really the future of America from a

1074
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: foreign policy and national security perspective. But sometimes you need

1075
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: a little levity as well. So I want to do

1076
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: a bit of a jump ball on stories year as

1077
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: we wrap up hour or two. First one being proof

1078
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: that in government you always fail upwards. Andy McCabe is

1079
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: back in the news today, disgraced former DOJ official. He's

1080
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: landed on his feet and signed on as a CNN contributor. That,

1081
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 1: in my view, is a heck of a consolation prize

1082
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: for failing to execute a coup against the president of

1083
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: the United States. As one publication noted, McCabe was fired

1084
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: last year after lying to the bureaus the FBI's Inspector

1085
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,919
Speaker 1: General at least four times related to abuse of power

1086
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: at the agency. While he was in charge, it was

1087
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: revealed that McCabe was involved in spying on the Trump

1088
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: campaign and in efforts to derail the investigation into Hillary

1089
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: Clinton's emails while at the Bureau. In February, McCabe admitted

1090
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 1: to discussing a coup with top national security officials to

1091
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 1: remove Trump from office. So Andy McCabe be getting a

1092
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: nice payday today from CNN and joining a long list

1093
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: of other folks who were dedicated to bringing down a

1094
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: president in the national security, foreign policy, law enforcement world.

1095
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 1: And you just have to ask the question, who is

1096
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: going to pay a price here? Is there going to

1097
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: be justice? And we know that Inspector General Horowitz's report

1098
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: is due any week now. I suspect that, like the

1099
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: one that came before it, it will probably set up

1100
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: the predicate for criminal action to be taken and then

1101
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: there will not be justice put forth. But let's see

1102
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 1: what happens. We know that the Attorney General bar led

1103
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: investigation of much more broadly, the corruption within the national security,

1104
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: foreign policy law enforcement community under his purview is ongoing,

1105
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: and let's hope, let's hope and pray that he gets

1106
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: to the bottom of what transpired during the last election.

1107
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: But realize we're talking about this, we're almost in the

1108
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: next election. I mean, the cycle has already started. And

1109
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 1: still you have all these people on the Trump side

1110
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: who have been prosecuted. Their lives have been ruined, even

1111
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: if they never were indiceted, even if they never served

1112
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: jail time. They've racked up legal bills worth tens of thousands,

1113
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: if not hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars,

1114
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: trying to defend themselves on the predicate of something that

1115
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: should have never existed in the first place, an investigation

1116
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: that should have never existed in the first place. What

1117
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: about the folks on the other side. Let's hope that

1118
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: the investigation of the investigators leads to actual justice, because

1119
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: absent that justice, this is going to happen again. And

1120
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: it bears noting that our intelligence capabilities are more sophisticated

1121
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: than they've ever been before, and if that apparatus is corrupted,

1122
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: we lose our freedom. All of us lose our freedom.

1123
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: This transcends party. This gets to the fundamental principles about

1124
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: due process, about the separation, completely separating politics from national

1125
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: security and law enforcement. You cannot corrupt national security and

1126
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Then we become of Nana Republic, if you

1127
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: can even call it a republic at that point. Okay,

1128
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: story number two saw this headline earlier today. Rashida Talib

1129
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 1: claims that Trump goes after her because of her ethnicity.

1130
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 1: Unte is that really the reason why? It wasn't because

1131
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: she screamed out, let's impeach the mffer. It isn't because

1132
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: she opposes every last policy that he puts forth. You know,

1133
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: it's really amazing. Talib talks about being such a strong

1134
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: person a strong personality, unafraid, unabashed. She always claims that

1135
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 1: people are trying to shut her up. Yet she's always talking,

1136
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: and she always claims that she's the victim, even though

1137
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: she's always attacking someone else. And of course by raising

1138
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 1: this concept of well, Trump is doing it because he's

1139
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: going after her because of her ethnicity, which, by the way,

1140
01:08:54,520 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: what she's really saying is he's racist, islamophobic, bigoted. She's

1141
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: trying to protect herself with this islamophobic veil. The whole

1142
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: purpose of it is to show descent, is to shut

1143
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: down anyone who would criticize her. And that's why you

1144
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: have to debate on the merits and you can't be stifled. Okay,

1145
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: last story. This one's a doozy, and I'm just going

1146
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: to read a tweet here from Hail Razor at hal

1147
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: Underscore Razor quote. At a certain point, you've made enough

1148
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: money unquote. That came from Barack Obama. He attributes that too.

1149
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: Guy who got a sixty five million dollars book deal

1150
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: then bought a seven bedroom, seven thousand square foot Martha's

1151
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,799
Speaker 1: Vineyard mansion on twenty nine acres worth fifteen million dollars.

1152
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: That's right, Barrock and show. Michelle Obama just bought a

1153
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: mega mansion and Martha's Vineyard Obama. Oh eight. This is

1154
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: from another tweet. When you spread the wealth around, it's

1155
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 1: good for everybody. Twenty ten. At a certain point, you've

1156
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: made enough money. Twenty nineteen, I'll take the fifteen million

1157
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: dollar Martha's Vineyard mansion. This has been Wingarton in for

1158
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: Buck Sex and her in the Buck Sex and Show

1159
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: back after this, Welcome back to the Buck Sex and Show.

1160
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 1: This is Ben Weingarten in four Buck Sexton and you'll

1161
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: recall in our one at my Open we talked a

1162
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 1: little bit about the sixteen nineteen project, which gave a

1163
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: little bit of a flavor for the ideology that is

1164
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: animating the left today. But the practical consequences of that

1165
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: ideology and how that ideology actually plays itself out leads

1166
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: to all manner of political squabbles. And one of the

1167
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: areas in which there is the most acrimony is of

1168
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 1: course in the Supreme Court and the federal courts more broadly,

1169
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 1: where the Trump administration has been tremendously successful at nominating

1170
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: and confirming a number of justices to help reshape the

1171
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: courts hopefully for decades to come and counter the progressive

1172
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 1: ethos that we spoke about in the opening. And today

1173
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm joined by someone who has been deeply involved in

1174
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: these battles, these confirmation battles of the Supreme Court and

1175
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: other levels as well, of course, Carrie Severino, who's the

1176
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: chief council and Policy director of the Judicial Crisis Network

1177
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 1: and also co author of the great new book Justice

1178
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: on Trial of the Kavanaugh Confirmation in the Future of

1179
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: the Court, authored with my colleague at the Federalist, Molly Hemingway. Kerry,

1180
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on and it's great to

1181
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: have you. It's great to be here, so I want

1182
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit today about the legacy of

1183
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings, and we are seeing the continued

1184
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 1: attempt to cavanaugh future appointees to the federal courts. And

1185
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: of course this started with Clarence Thomas, and before Clarence Thomas,

1186
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: with Robert Borke. It's clear that the Democrats view the

1187
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 1: courts as just another political realm where they have to

1188
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: engage in political warfare. And that is just part of

1189
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 1: the hurly burley of what our political system is. Kavanaugh

1190
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: ticket to New Heights, but we're even seeing it at

1191
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: lower courts. So, for example, in recent weeks, it seems

1192
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: that there's been an attempt to smear a second Circuit

1193
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: Court nominee, Stephen Menashi, tell us a little bit about that. Yeah,

1194
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: so this started with Rachel Maddow taking issue with him

1195
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: on MSNBC in really what I think was ultimately an

1196
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 1: anti Semitic attack, and he had an article he had

1197
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: written about the state of Israel, trying to explain to

1198
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 1: critics who say you can't be a liberal democracy and

1199
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: also have this Jewish character to it, and trying to

1200
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: explain that no, there is actually something about having that

1201
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: an used the word SnO nationalism, but that having a

1202
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: common sense of principles that animates is actually something that

1203
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 1: is common to liberal democracies and can function within that system.

1204
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: She turned it on his head, made it sound like

1205
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: he was a white nationalist and was saying that you

1206
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 1: can't function in a country at all unless you have

1207
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: some kind of racial purity. Far from it. Simply, he

1208
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 1: actually was talking about a cultural identity that far surpassed

1209
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 1: um way. He's talking about Jewish people coming into the

1210
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 1: state of Israel who from ever work from Ethiopia to

1211
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: Iraq like his family is from, to to former Soviet

1212
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: countries like his wife's family's front. So this is someone

1213
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: who actually, in his own life and experience, has a

1214
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: very broad and diverse background. It's shocking what she's trying

1215
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 1: to do to that article of his I think, to

1216
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 1: make him to attack him in his nomination, and of

1217
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,719
Speaker 1: course that in practice and in theory. That argument about

1218
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 1: you can't be a democracy and a Jewish state, which

1219
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: has been raised since Israel passed its basic law last year,

1220
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: something that's been I believed last year, something that's been

1221
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: raised by many people on the left in America in

1222
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: recent months, including representatives Omar and Tully. Even of course,

1223
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: it's undermined by the fact that the Declaration of Independence,

1224
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 1: if you go to it for Israel, basically says that

1225
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 1: there's equal rights for all and effectively a dynamic civil

1226
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 1: society is supported by the country's founding document. But even

1227
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 1: leaving that aside, this attempt to smear him as a

1228
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 1: white supremacist. Effectively, if you take it to its logical conclusion,

1229
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 1: this idea of calling him a Nazi, just as folks

1230
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: on the left have called Benjamin and Yahoo a racist

1231
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:11,719
Speaker 1: and the government a racist government. This perverse holocaust inversion

1232
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: in effect, where you get to at the end of

1233
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: the day, this is really of a piece with the

1234
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 1: fact that those on the left have put religious tests

1235
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 1: on numerous nominee. Is that Trump has put forth? Is

1236
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: that correct? Oh? Absolutely so. I mean typically we have

1237
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: seen this in anti Catholicism, but now apparently anti Semitism

1238
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 1: is unfortunately since be coming back in vogue. And as

1239
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: you say, it's not limited to this case. We've definitely

1240
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 1: seen that in some of those speeches from those representatives

1241
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: as well, and so it's a real concern because there

1242
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: is a reason there are no religious tests for office

1243
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: in our constitution. That kind of thing was anathema to

1244
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 1: the founders and we absolutely don't want to be going

1245
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: down that line. Now. Before we proceed to the next

1246
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: set of smears against this nominee, Miss r. Minashi tell

1247
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 1: us a little bit about his qualifications for serving as

1248
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: on the Second Court, Second Circuit Court. Rather. Yeah, Now,

1249
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 1: he is an outstanding lawyer. He has been most recently

1250
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 1: in the in the Office of the White House Council,

1251
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: but also has practiced private practice. He's also worked the

1252
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: Department of Education. So he's someone who you know, when

1253
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 1: you talk to people just down the line, they'll hear

1254
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: people talking about how outstanding, um, he is as a lawyer.

1255
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 1: And then also and this kind of leads into some

1256
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 1: of them the further smears on him. He's someone who

1257
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: is a very strong conservative lifelong. So he wrote in college,

1258
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 1: even for the Dartmouth Review, which is which was a

1259
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: very um, you know, important college paper, and at that

1260
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 1: time was really doing a lot of important work kind

1261
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 1: of trying to push back against some of the PC

1262
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: movements on campus. But now, of course, everything you've done

1263
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: all the way back to college and earlier is fair

1264
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: game and I think the left is trying to make

1265
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: that having a conservative position at that point in your

1266
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: life also something that is anathema, And that's a real

1267
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: issue at the end of the day, isn't it. It's

1268
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: about what his ideology is, and these other attacks are

1269
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: really more about virtue signaling, putting up a facade of well,

1270
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: this person is a horrible person and thus they should

1271
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: be dinged on that basis, But in reality, it's about

1272
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: his ideology. Oh yeah, absolutely. They don't want to have

1273
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 1: someone on the court who is going to be a

1274
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 1: conservative jurisprudentially, and that's because has historically been very successful

1275
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: in using the courts to achieve its liberal ends. So

1276
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: I'm not saying we should have judges who are doing

1277
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: the opposite on the conservative side. We just want people

1278
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 1: who are going to be faithful to the law. But

1279
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: I think the prospect of losing that incredibly valuable tool

1280
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 1: that the left has had so often judge has been

1281
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: willing to enact policies they couldn't get done in Congress

1282
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: simply by unelected judges, and so it's threatening to them

1283
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: to have a judge who's going to simply follow the

1284
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 1: law as thritten. If we continue down this path and

1285
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 1: if Kavanaugh doesn't mark the most extreme aspect of resistance

1286
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 1: on the left. But it's actually just another data point

1287
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: in this slide down. Ultimately, how can conservatives, constitutionalists, originalists

1288
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: expect to compete in the future given the fact that

1289
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 1: the other side engages in effectively unrestricted political warfare. Yeah,

1290
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,799
Speaker 1: this is really shameful. I mean, I'm someone who argues

1291
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: you should have a vigorous debate about judges, but it

1292
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 1: should be a debate about there not just their qualifications,

1293
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: but their ideological approach the court, like their philosophy of judging.

1294
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: That's totally fair game. This is about smearing an individual,

1295
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: and this is just the same kind of thing we've

1296
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: seen time and again with all these other judges. So

1297
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 1: they're not learning their lesson, I think Ultimately, in today though,

1298
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 1: we have seen these judges are getting confirmed. So Brett

1299
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh confirmed, Amy Coney, Barrett confirmed, Brian Brush are also confirmed.

1300
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: A lot of these people who have endured that we

1301
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 1: are managing to get confirmed, and I think in many

1302
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 1: ways the American people are being very turned off by it.

1303
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: That's why some people were frustrated after the Kavanaugh confirmation

1304
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: seeing what happened that actually they turned out in the

1305
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: polls much higher than people expected. Mitch McConnell said, I couldn't,

1306
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 1: we couldn't get our people ginned up about this, And

1307
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: thank you to the Democrats for, you know, ramping up

1308
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 1: GOP turnout. And I think that that has happened. So

1309
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 1: I hope that people will continue to be outraged by

1310
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: the things that are happening, because that ultimately, unfortunately, is

1311
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 1: the only thing that will potentially rain in this kind

1312
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,680
Speaker 1: of inappropriate action on the left. And I'm hoped that

1313
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: we don't see very this is this is an act

1314
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: of the media so far, I seriously hope we don't

1315
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: see senators who are also buying in some of this

1316
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: anti semitic and personally smearing behavior. Lastly, and there was

1317
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 1: news just before we came to air tonight's regarding health

1318
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: problems of Supreme Court Justice Ruth bidder Ginsburg, and obviously

1319
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: she has had issues over the years. And then there's

1320
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:19,680
Speaker 1: been intense speculation about, well, if Trump does get to

1321
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 1: a point another nominee, another Supreme Court justice rather in

1322
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:26,560
Speaker 1: her stead, who would he choose and how would it

1323
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:32,560
Speaker 1: all transpire? Do you see that appointment being more acrimonious

1324
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 1: than what we saw with Justice Kavanaugh. Unfortunately, I do

1325
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:38,680
Speaker 1: when you look at Molly and I looked at the

1326
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 1: history of Supreme Court nominations as we were working on

1327
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: Justice on Trial, you see that when the stakes are

1328
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:46,440
Speaker 1: high for a seat, when there's a likelihood of changing

1329
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:51,719
Speaker 1: the balance of ideology and philosophy on the court, Staphy say, see,

1330
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:55,839
Speaker 1: things get crazy. And the absolute rock bottom worst confirmation

1331
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 1: we saw in history was this past one, and that

1332
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: was just replacing a swing vote. Can you imagine if

1333
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: it were Justice skin for her that President Trump were replacing.

1334
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the depth to which we would see

1335
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: the processing. So I think it's so important to hold

1336
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 1: people accountable for what happened last time, and to make

1337
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: sure we go in with our eyes open and in

1338
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 1: knowing that we are going to need to fight very

1339
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: hard to get any principal nominee confirmed in this kind

1340
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: of environment. We've been speaking with Carrie Severino. She's Chief

1341
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 1: counsel and policy director of the Judicial Crisis Network, and

1342
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: she's also co author of the great new book Justice

1343
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 1: on Trial, The Kavanaugh Confirmation and the Future of the Court. Carrie,

1344
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Great to be here.

1345
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: And this is Ben Weingarten in for Buck sexon on

1346
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 1: the Buck Sex and Show back. Just after this, welcome

1347
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: back to the Buck Sex and Show. This is Ben

1348
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,799
Speaker 1: Weingarten in for Buck Sexton. All right, before the last break,

1349
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 1: we were speaking with Carrie Severino about the courts and

1350
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: how contentious these battles have been, even for a lower

1351
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:03,679
Speaker 1: level federal judges because of just how important those positions

1352
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: have become, which in and of itself is an indictment

1353
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 1: in a sense of where our political system has gone,

1354
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,719
Speaker 1: where the courts are hyper politicized and they are viewed

1355
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 1: in some sense as just another part of the legislative branch,

1356
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: and all of the fundamental questions of society seem to

1357
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: get kicked to the courts because our legislators don't do

1358
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 1: their job and actually legislate on these issues and represent

1359
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: the public on them. But it bears noting once again

1360
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: that the ideology matters. It's not just the tactics. It

1361
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: is what our representatives and the people that they appoint

1362
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 1: actually believe. And two of the most radical people currently

1363
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: representing quote unquote Americans are Rashida to Leave and ilhan Omar,

1364
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,600
Speaker 1: and obviously they've been in the news substantially over the

1365
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:57,479
Speaker 1: last week, primarily regarding their non trip to Israel. In

1366
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: their itinerary, their draft itinerary, they themselves the delegation to Palestine,

1367
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 1: which in and of itself insinuates that they don't believe

1368
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 1: that Israel is a legitimate state. And of course we

1369
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 1: can go through their litany of statements with respect to

1370
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: Israel and the like, which ultimately shows that their anti

1371
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: Zionism quote unquote is really just anti Semitism masquerading as

1372
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 1: anti Zionism. But it's important to note that in some sense,

1373
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 1: is these representatives that personify a nexus between Islamists, or

1374
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: at least those who carry their water and associate with

1375
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 1: them and hold many of the same positions of them,

1376
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: not just with respect to Israel, but also conversely with

1377
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 1: respect to the adversaries of Israel and also radical leftists.

1378
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:46,840
Speaker 1: We spoke before when we started this episode tonight about

1379
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen project and this attempt to recast American

1380
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 1: history as being fundamentally one of racism, bigotry, oppression, where

1381
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:59,640
Speaker 1: that racism and the issue of slavery and the institution

1382
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: of slavery pervades everything, pervades capitalism, the healthcare system business

1383
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 1: a fundamentally flawed and inherently evil founding. And what I

1384
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:19,919
Speaker 1: would suggest is that the acolytes of the representative Omar's

1385
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 1: and talibs. These are the people I'm thinking of, of course,

1386
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:27,639
Speaker 1: such as representatives of the Council on American Islamic Relations Care,

1387
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 1: other Muslim Student Association, other groups where there are documented

1388
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 1: historical ties to the Muslim brotherhood and a belief in

1389
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:41,200
Speaker 1: Islamic supremacism and subversion and the like. They hold the

1390
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:44,639
Speaker 1: same views or views that at least overlap with the left.

1391
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,680
Speaker 1: And why is this the case, Well, for one thing,

1392
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 1: they have a common adversary, which is essentially Western civilization.

1393
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 1: But they also share the same sort of narrative. Just

1394
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: as the US is cast as a racist, colonialist, oppressive,

1395
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: occupying country, the likes of Talib and Omar also characterize

1396
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: Israel that way. But of course, this anti Zionism in

1397
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:13,560
Speaker 1: the Islamic worlds was in part perpetuated by the Left itself.

1398
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: And what I'm getting at here, and I will break

1399
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:20,920
Speaker 1: this down in depth, is that anti Semitism masquerading as

1400
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: anti Zionism is part of the glue that holds the

1401
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: left and the Islamists together, but they have also found

1402
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 1: a way to meld their world views, their core philosophy,

1403
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: their histories of how countries have developed over time for

1404
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:39,879
Speaker 1: propagandistic purposes, to lend an air of legitimacy to their causes,

1405
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: which ultimately are about overthrowing these nations. I want to

1406
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 1: read to you a little bit about the language that

1407
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:53,320
Speaker 1: was invoked, for example, by yas Or Arafat, who is

1408
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:57,559
Speaker 1: the founder of Fatah and led the Palestine National Liberation

1409
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: Movement quote unquote in the sixties. This is from nineteen

1410
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: sixty nine. A quote here, Fatah, the Palestine National Liberation

1411
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 1: Movement is not struggling against the Jews as an ethnic

1412
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 1: and religious community. It is struggling against Israel as the

1413
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 1: expression of colonization based on a theocratic, racist, and expansionist system,

1414
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 1: and of Zionism and colonialism unquote. Now I'm going to

1415
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 1: quote from Joshua Moravchik, who wrote this critical book Making

1416
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 1: David into Goliath. He adds it linked this cause to

1417
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 1: other revolutionary movements around the world, including most notably the

1418
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:34,599
Speaker 1: anti American sympathizer sympathizers with the North vietname is stating

1419
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 1: and I quote, the struggle of the Palestinian people, like

1420
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 1: that of the Vietnamese people on other people's of Asia,

1421
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 1: Africa and Latin America, is part of the historic process

1422
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 1: of the liberation of the oppressed peoples from colonialism and imperialism.

1423
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:55,640
Speaker 1: So Arafat used this language, these words colonization, theocratic, racist, expansionist, Zionism,

1424
01:25:55,640 --> 01:26:01,759
Speaker 1: and colonialism, and he put the Arab movement against Israel

1425
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 1: as being about liberation of the oppressed people is from

1426
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 1: colonialism and imperialism. In other words, what you saw is

1427
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 1: a link between these leftist national liberation movements around the

1428
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:17,679
Speaker 1: world generally backed by the Soviet Union, and his cause,

1429
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: the Arab cause against Israel. Arafat would also describe it

1430
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 1: this way. Our struggle is part and parcel of every

1431
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 1: struggle against imperialism, injustice and oppression in the world. It

1432
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 1: is the part of the world revolution which aim at

1433
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 1: establishing listen to this social justice and liberating mankind. Unte

1434
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:41,600
Speaker 1: That language is exactly the language that the left uses today.

1435
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: So there is a straight line that you can draw

1436
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 1: between that movement that a a Yasser Arafat led back

1437
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:52,080
Speaker 1: in the sixties his rhetoric the Soviet Union with which

1438
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 1: they were aligned, and I'll express that linkage in just

1439
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:59,599
Speaker 1: a moment, and the exact language that we see today

1440
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: from congresswomen Talib and Omar and others in the Squad

1441
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,640
Speaker 1: and the rest of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and the

1442
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: New York Times too. So elite opinion is essentially the

1443
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: same opinion as that held by back in the sixties

1444
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:19,520
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, its proxies, and in particular the Arabists

1445
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:26,200
Speaker 1: who were trying to destroy the Zionist, imperialist, colonializing ent. Today,

1446
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: what we are seeing today are the heirs of that ideology.

1447
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: And when I come back, I'm going to delve deeper

1448
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: into these ideological ties and then what you're seeing manifest

1449
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 1: itself in today's modern Democratic Party. This is Ben Winegarden

1450
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 1: in for Buck Sex in here in the Buck Sexton Show.

1451
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 1: Back just after this, Welcome back to the Buck Sex

1452
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: and Show. This is Ben Weinegarden in for Buck Sexton.

1453
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:54,280
Speaker 1: Before the break, I was talking about this nexus that

1454
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:57,880
Speaker 1: we are seeing today within the Democratic Party and specifically

1455
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:01,760
Speaker 1: within its left wing, which is basically increasingly dominating the

1456
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 1: party of Islamist rhetoric and those who carry their water

1457
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 1: in Congress and leftism more broadly. And what you see

1458
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 1: in the squad is basically the full spectrum from an

1459
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:19,800
Speaker 1: identity politics perspective of this. But also what you see

1460
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 1: is that there is overlap in terms of their worldviews,

1461
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 1: their intersectionality quote unquote, and it's reflected in historical rhetoric

1462
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 1: and rhetoric today. So I was speaking before about the

1463
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 1: fact that yes or Arafat jihadist Islamic supremacist when he

1464
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: founded Fatah. The language that FATA used in terms of

1465
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:46,480
Speaker 1: Palestinian national liberation movement as they called it, perfectly paralleled

1466
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:52,640
Speaker 1: the kind of rhetoric that we see from the left today. Theocratic, racist, expansionist, colonialist, imperialist.

1467
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,760
Speaker 1: And so if you were all those things, i e.

1468
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: If you were the West, be It America or Israel,

1469
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: you were to be opposed. And consequently, the Arabs, ultimately

1470
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 1: over time, after the nineteen sixty seven war Six Day War,

1471
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 1: they became a caused salb of the left. Originally, from

1472
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:16,640
Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight Israel's founding through sixty seven, Israel was

1473
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:19,160
Speaker 1: viewed as the underdog in a sea of people who

1474
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:22,639
Speaker 1: hated it and wished to see its destruction, barely able

1475
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:29,639
Speaker 1: to survive, outnumbered by fifty times outgunned. But after sixty seven,

1476
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 1: when in a defensive war they defeated the armed forces

1477
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: of among other Saudi Arabia and Jordan, then they became

1478
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:42,600
Speaker 1: an occupier quote unquote, and the Left's language was perfectly

1479
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: molded on to the Islamist movement. The Soviet Union itself

1480
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 1: was heavily backing these jihadas in the Middle East. I

1481
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 1: want to read a little bit about these ties. The

1482
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 1: highest ever ranking KGB official Soviet intelligence off Soviet block

1483
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 1: intelligence officer rather, his name was Lieutenant General Pachapa ian

1484
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 1: Mahe Pachapa. He wrote in a Walsher journal op ed

1485
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and three of these ties, and

1486
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: it's very relevant when you think about where the Left

1487
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:26,840
Speaker 1: is today at how these Islamist backers fit, consorters, colluters

1488
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:29,960
Speaker 1: fit in their party. Here's what Pachapa said. He said

1489
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 1: Arafat was an important undercover operative for the KGB Right

1490
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 1: after the nineteen sixty seven six Day Arab Israeli War.

1491
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 1: Moscow got him appointed a chairman of the pllo Egyptian

1492
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:42,200
Speaker 1: rule or Nasser or Soviet puppet proposed the appointment. In

1493
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, the kgbasket Arafat to declare war on

1494
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 1: American quote unquote imperial Zionism during the first summit of

1495
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:53,919
Speaker 1: the Black Terrorist International, a neo fascist pro Palestine organization

1496
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:58,240
Speaker 1: financed by the KGB and wibia's Momar Gaddafi. It appealed

1497
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:00,839
Speaker 1: to him so much. Arafat later claim to have invented

1498
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:04,839
Speaker 1: the imperial Zionist battle cry, but in fact, imperial Zionism

1499
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 1: quote unquote was a Moscow invention, a modern adaptation of

1500
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 1: the protocols of the Elders of Zion and along a

1501
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:14,600
Speaker 1: favorite tool of Russian intelligence to foment ethnic hatred. The

1502
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:19,760
Speaker 1: KGBE always regarded anti Semitism plus imperialism as a rich

1503
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 1: source of anti Americanism. I want to repeat that line

1504
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:28,519
Speaker 1: because it so perfectly explains today's blame America first left.

1505
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 1: The KGBE always regarded anti Semitism plus anti imperialism as

1506
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 1: a rich source of anti Americanism. We're witnessing history alive

1507
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:44,519
Speaker 1: in real time right now. It's a scary history. Arafat

1508
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 1: wasn't the only person who personified this. Mahmoudabas, as you know,

1509
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 1: is in the fourteenth year of his four year term

1510
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: as president of the Palestinian Authority, which rules in most

1511
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 1: of the West Bank. We're gonna quote from an article

1512
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:05,680
Speaker 1: about a boss. Now. Arab language, anti Zionist literature was

1513
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 1: an important part of Soviet propaganda directed at the Middle East,

1514
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: and this comes from a great article by the way,

1515
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:14,880
Speaker 1: in Fathom magazine. According to Israeli investigative journalist runnin Bergman,

1516
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 1: it served a source material for Mahmudabas's nineteen eighty two PhD.

1517
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:21,479
Speaker 1: In the early eighties, a Bass was enrolled at Moscow's

1518
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:25,559
Speaker 1: Patrice Slambamba University, a school established to train future Third

1519
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:29,000
Speaker 1: World elites in Marxism Leninism and prepare them to become

1520
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: pro Soviet influencers. See the link between the Islamis and

1521
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:36,960
Speaker 1: the leftists. Year he defended his dissertation at Moscow's Institute

1522
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 1: of Oriental Studies, an important institution within the Academy of Sciences,

1523
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 1: which regularly turned out scholarly quote unquote works for demonizing

1524
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:47,559
Speaker 1: Zionism in Israel. And it goes on to say that

1525
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 1: Wallabas was there. It was headed this institute by Yevgeny

1526
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 1: Primakov and Arabis, with lifelong connections to Soviet intelligence in

1527
01:32:55,479 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 1: the Middle East, who would eventually become the head of

1528
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 1: the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Agency are Primakov was personally appointed

1529
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:07,759
Speaker 1: Abas's dissertation advisor, and the article writes that this shows

1530
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,720
Speaker 1: the importance that the Soviet foreign policy and intelligence establishments

1531
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 1: attached to the educational output of this already prominent Palestinian leader.

1532
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 1: The article continues. Obasa's dissertation was published as a book

1533
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven in Arabic under the title The Other

1534
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:26,879
Speaker 1: Side The Secret Relationship between Nazism and Zionism. Several passages

1535
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 1: from the book, reproduced in Bergmann's article, replicate some of

1536
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:33,040
Speaker 1: the mainstays of the Soviet anti Zionist campaign, including those

1537
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: concerning the alleged Zionist collaboration with the Nazis during the

1538
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 1: Holocaust and casting doubt on the number of Holocaust victims.

1539
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 1: This is a guy who is presented as a peace

1540
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:45,600
Speaker 1: partner by the way Hutlieb and Omar and many of

1541
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 1: their fellow Democrats stand with. The article writes, a particularly

1542
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: curious piece of historical falsification then made it into a

1543
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 1: Bass's book concerned Adolf Eichmann's capture by the Massad according

1544
01:33:56,160 --> 01:33:58,679
Speaker 1: to Bergmann, Eichman, of course being one of the most

1545
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:04,639
Speaker 1: notorious Nazis masterminds behind Nazism. According to Bergman, Obas wrote

1546
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:06,680
Speaker 1: that the Massad abducted Aikman in order to prevent the

1547
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 1: high ranking Nazi from revealing the secret of Zionist role

1548
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 1: in the final solution. That is, Zionists actually caused the

1549
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 1: Holocaust in conjunction with the Nazis. According to Abbas, who

1550
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: leads the Palestinian Authority living representative of the Left Islamist Nexus,

1551
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to read another quote from Pachapa from an

1552
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 1: interview I conducted with him via email back in twenty

1553
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:36,639
Speaker 1: fourteen that I urge you to check out. He said

1554
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: that in nineteen seventy two, during a breakfast in his office,

1555
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:43,400
Speaker 1: KGB chairman Andropov told me that our disinformation machinery should

1556
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 1: ignite a campaign him to transforming Arab anti Semitism into

1557
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 1: an anti American doctrine for the whole Muslim world. See,

1558
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:54,840
Speaker 1: this isn't just about Zionism, It's about America. It's about freedom.

1559
01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 1: He continues, The idea was to portray the United States

1560
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:00,280
Speaker 1: as a warmongering Zionist country financed by Jewish money and

1561
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:03,599
Speaker 1: run by a rapacious council of the Elders of Zion,

1562
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:05,680
Speaker 1: the aim of which was to transform the rest of

1563
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:10,679
Speaker 1: the world into a Jewish fiefdom. And continues. The KGB

1564
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:13,639
Speaker 1: boss Andropov described the Muslim world as a waiting pea

1565
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:16,839
Speaker 1: tradition which we could nurture a strand of hate America.

1566
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: The Muslims had a taste for nationalism, jingoism, and victimology.

1567
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:22,479
Speaker 1: We had only to keep repeating over and over that

1568
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 1: the United States was a warmongering Zionist country financed by

1569
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 1: Jewish money with the goal of taking over the whole world.

1570
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 1: And the KGB proceeded to throw millions of dollars behind

1571
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:38,800
Speaker 1: that disinformation effort, that propaganda effort. So you see, the

1572
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: left Islamist ties go way back and in some sense

1573
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:46,160
Speaker 1: to leave and Omar and those who stand with them

1574
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:53,719
Speaker 1: are representative of this ideology, of this link. They're also

1575
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:57,600
Speaker 1: the heirs of Edward Said, who himself sort of personified this.

1576
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:00,400
Speaker 1: He was a professor who was both in a Ladist

1577
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 1: teaching at Ivy League Universities, and also a member of

1578
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:10,080
Speaker 1: the Palestinian movement. Quote unquote, I'm going to read how

1579
01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:15,560
Speaker 1: Maravchik described Sayid's most famous work, Orientalism. He said, Orientalism

1580
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:17,800
Speaker 1: was created to expose the evil worm at the core

1581
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 1: of Western civilization, namely its inability to define itself except

1582
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:25,600
Speaker 1: against and imagined other. That other was the Oriental So

1583
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:27,880
Speaker 1: you'd claimed that every European and what he could say

1584
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 1: about the orient was a racist and imperialist and almost

1585
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:33,400
Speaker 1: totally ethnocentric. Elsewhere in the texts he made clear that

1586
01:36:33,439 --> 01:36:37,000
Speaker 1: what was true for Europeans held equally for Americans. He

1587
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:38,560
Speaker 1: goes on to say that this echoed a theme of

1588
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties radicalism, which was forged in the movements against

1589
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: Jim Crow and against America's warn Vietnam, namely that the

1590
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 1: Caucasian race was the scourge of humanity. Moravcha continues that

1591
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:53,800
Speaker 1: the Marxist notion of class struggle had never resonated in America.

1592
01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 1: Race was a different matter. For europe colonialism and imperialism

1593
01:36:57,240 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 1: were the original sins, but in America the victimization of

1594
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:02,640
Speaker 1: Wax through slavery and segregation was a running sore. The

1595
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:05,479
Speaker 1: Great stain on the nation's honor, the excruciating counterpoint to

1596
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:08,839
Speaker 1: the proclaimed ideals of the founding fathers, said rolled American

1597
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:12,200
Speaker 1: racism and European colonialism into one ball of wax white

1598
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 1: oppression of darker skinned peoples. He was not the only

1599
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: thinker to affords this amalgam, but he made a unique

1600
01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:20,920
Speaker 1: contribution in portraying Orientals as the epitome of the dark

1601
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,360
Speaker 1: skinned Muslims as the representative of Orientals, Arabs as the

1602
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 1: essential Muslims, and finally, Palestinians is the ultimate Arabs abracadabra.

1603
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 1: Israel in conflict with the Palestinians was transformed from a

1604
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 1: redemptive refuge from two thousand years of persecution to the

1605
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:39,920
Speaker 1: very embodiment of white supremacy. And that is exactly how

1606
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 1: the left is defining not only Israel today, but America today.

1607
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,800
Speaker 1: We are living through, we are living with the results

1608
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 1: of this effort to attack Western civilization. Anti Semitism masquerading

1609
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 1: is anti Zionism, but as an essential part also of

1610
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 1: anti Americanism. And so when you have on Thanksgiving, Congresswoman

1611
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:09,479
Speaker 1: Omar back in twenty seventeen, then a state representative tweeting

1612
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,360
Speaker 1: about the fact that we occupy the land of our

1613
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:18,639
Speaker 1: indigenous neighbors. When she stated, we must confront that our

1614
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 1: nation was founded by genocide and we maintain global power

1615
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:23,920
Speaker 1: through neocolonialism. We must confront that our nation was founded

1616
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 1: by the genocide of indigenous people and on the backs

1617
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 1: of slaves, that we maintain global power with the tenor

1618
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:33,200
Speaker 1: of neocolonialism. What we are witnessing is anti Americanism in

1619
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: the US House of Representatives. And we are witnessing a

1620
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:39,960
Speaker 1: Democratic party that, by its own silence, if not active

1621
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:45,320
Speaker 1: defense of these representatives anti American representatives. They're saying that

1622
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: they consent to it, whether out of politics or out

1623
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:54,920
Speaker 1: of cowardice, or both, and that is a disaster for America.

1624
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:56,640
Speaker 1: This has been Wangern in for Buck Sex and on

1625
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:00,439
Speaker 1: the Buck Sex and show back after this, Welcome back

1626
01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 1: to the Buck Sexton Show. This is Ben Weinegarden in

1627
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:06,799
Speaker 1: for Buck Sexton, and we're about to close up shop

1628
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:08,840
Speaker 1: here and I want to see if I can tie

1629
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 1: a nice little bow around some of the themes that

1630
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:18,800
Speaker 1: we have delved into during tonight's episode. You know, the

1631
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 1: direction of a nation is attributable to the ideas that

1632
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 1: predominate in it. What we talked about at the start

1633
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: of this episode was a view of American history that

1634
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:36,519
Speaker 1: represents an underlying philosophy, the view of American history that

1635
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: we are a racist, colonialist, rapacious, oppressive, occupying misogynists. Throw

1636
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:46,000
Speaker 1: out your adjective that describes us as a horrible nation

1637
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 1: conceived in sin, and where that sin continues to pervade

1638
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:52,479
Speaker 1: every aspect of our society. Well, if you take that

1639
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:54,640
Speaker 1: view of our nation as opposed to one which is

1640
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:57,800
Speaker 1: the greatest bastion of liberty in the history of mankind

1641
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 1: and consequently has produced but the freedom, the peace, the

1642
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 1: prosperity that all of us have been able to enjoy

1643
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:09,160
Speaker 1: that gives us the time to be able to complain

1644
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:12,400
Speaker 1: about all of these invented issues. In many cases, not

1645
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:15,759
Speaker 1: all of them, but oftentimes we are complaining about things

1646
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:24,080
Speaker 1: where you can't even perceive them, they're unconscious. Two competing philosophies.

1647
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: If you take the view that our history is evil,

1648
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 1: our nation is evil. We're not a virtuous nation, but

1649
01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:34,519
Speaker 1: we're one conceived in sin, and we're dominated by our vices,

1650
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:38,439
Speaker 1: and that those vices pervade every aspect of our society, Well,

1651
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:41,200
Speaker 1: then what is the natural response to that? The natural

1652
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 1: response is, if we're immoral, we need to make the

1653
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:46,800
Speaker 1: nation moral. If we're not virtuous, we need to be virtuous.

1654
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:49,679
Speaker 1: And if you take the perspective that the American experiment,

1655
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:53,559
Speaker 1: as it's weigh it out, is horrible evil, then to

1656
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:58,560
Speaker 1: do good would be to overturn that order to fundamentally

1657
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 1: transform society, to turn it on its head. And that

1658
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 1: is what these ideologues seek to do. And we've talked

1659
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:10,760
Speaker 1: about this unholy sort of nexus alliance between those on

1660
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:14,160
Speaker 1: the left and the Islamists and the people who carry

1661
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: water for the Islamis. We see this manifested personified by

1662
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 1: today's squad. What unites them their view that we're evil.

1663
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 1: What also unites them the view that we need to

1664
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 1: overturn it by imposing a system completely antithetical to the

1665
01:41:31,320 --> 01:41:37,320
Speaker 1: one we were lucky enough to have received from our

1666
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:42,639
Speaker 1: national forefathers. How do they put this into practice? As

1667
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:45,360
Speaker 1: I noted, they demoralize us through telling us this history,

1668
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:48,880
Speaker 1: through crafting this narrative about how horrible a nation we are,

1669
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:51,080
Speaker 1: and when you hear it day in and day out,

1670
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:55,360
Speaker 1: and then it's propagated in players and television shows and movies,

1671
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,639
Speaker 1: and when teachers at every single level are pumping out

1672
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:01,960
Speaker 1: this sort of worldview, what do you think is going

1673
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 1: to happen to your society? What do you think is

1674
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:06,600
Speaker 1: going to happen to your elites? The people were in

1675
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:10,200
Speaker 1: the House of Representatives and these new young left progressives,

1676
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:16,040
Speaker 1: they're elites. The New York Times defines the elite worldview.

1677
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 1: They all share the same one. If the people at

1678
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:25,840
Speaker 1: the top of our institutions, with the best credentials, purportedly

1679
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 1: the best educations, if they are going to promulgate this worldview,

1680
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,519
Speaker 1: that's how they intend to dominate. But if you won't

1681
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:38,160
Speaker 1: go along with it, they will drag you kicking and screaming.

1682
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 1: And so you see it in terms of woke capitalism,

1683
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 1: where you have these social justice warriors threatening companies, the

1684
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 1: companies caving to them. If the executives in these companies

1685
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 1: weren't themselves inculcated in this very same anti American flame

1686
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:56,400
Speaker 1: America first, or a worldview, you'll see it imposed in

1687
01:42:56,439 --> 01:43:01,720
Speaker 1: civil society through big tech. You'll see them attack you

1688
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 1: on social media. At the end of the day, it's

1689
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 1: about chilling descent because they know that in our hearts.

1690
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:14,599
Speaker 1: As Americans, we understand that this is a fundamentally good

1691
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 1: human endeavor. The only way they can topple it is

1692
01:43:20,120 --> 01:43:22,800
Speaker 1: by propagandizing, and then if you won't go along with

1693
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:28,559
Speaker 1: the propaganda, forcing imposing their views upon you ultimately so

1694
01:43:28,600 --> 01:43:31,440
Speaker 1: that they can collect power for themselves, not for democracy,

1695
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 1: as they'll always talk about democracy. No, it isn't about

1696
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:38,439
Speaker 1: redistributing power down to the people. It's about taking power

1697
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:41,639
Speaker 1: from the people, redistributing it to themselves with the promise

1698
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 1: that it will come back to you, and ultimately you

1699
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:47,719
Speaker 1: get crumbs and you've lost your freedom in the process.

1700
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:52,320
Speaker 1: The only way to counter this is to put forth

1701
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:55,519
Speaker 1: a counter narrative, to have better ideas, fight them in

1702
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:59,520
Speaker 1: the war of ideas. Refuse to be cowed into submission

1703
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 1: by the Twitter mobs and the people attacking you on Facebook.

1704
01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:08,200
Speaker 1: They want to instill fear because they don't want to

1705
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:10,439
Speaker 1: debate on the merits, and that's why you have to

1706
01:44:10,439 --> 01:44:13,759
Speaker 1: beat them on the substance. And they do not expect

1707
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:17,920
Speaker 1: you to punch back figuratively. They punch literally, We punch

1708
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 1: back figuratively. I want to thank Buck Sexon for giving

1709
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 1: me the opportunity to fill in tonight. I want to

1710
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: thank you for listening, and I hope that you will

1711
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,800
Speaker 1: engage in this war of ideas every day because it

1712
01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:31,439
Speaker 1: is about the direction of the future of this country.

1713
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 1: It's about the kind of country your children will inherit

1714
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:36,599
Speaker 1: and their children will inherit. This has been Ben Weigaren

1715
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:38,720
Speaker 1: filling in for Buck Sexon. Thanks so much and have

1716
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:39,439
Speaker 1: a great weekend.