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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, December second, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Righty has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Vridy's Brian Steinberg on interesting developments for

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Speaker 1: the microdrama format at Televisa Univision and with J. C. Penny,

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Speaker 1: Both are experimenting with the format in ways that will

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Speaker 1: be watched by their competitors. And then Chris Willman joins

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Speaker 1: us to discuss the unique pleasures of standing in line

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Speaker 1: on record store Day on Black Friday. We talk about

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Speaker 1: communing with fellow music lovers and about the durability of

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Speaker 1: the vinyl revival that still surprises this record store alum.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 1: headlines just in this morning that you need to know.

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Speaker 1: The new Netflix docu series on the Saga of Ditty

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Speaker 1: is sure to generate headlines all week. There's more than

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Speaker 1: a few disturbing allegations surfaced in Sean Comb's The Reckoning.

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Speaker 1: The four part series was helmed by Alexandria Stapleton and

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Speaker 1: produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson Combs folkesperson released a

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Speaker 1: statement calling it a quote shameful hit piece end quote

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Speaker 1: that is based on what they claim is stolen footage.

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Speaker 1: Ditty's statement calls out Netflix's co CEO Ted Sarandos by name,

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Speaker 1: and even goes so far as to invoke the legacy

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Speaker 1: of Sirandos's late father in law, the famed businessman Clarence Avont.

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Speaker 1: Gotham Awards were held in New York last night, setting

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Speaker 1: off the cap gun on Winter Awards Season One Battle

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Speaker 1: after Another was the big winner for Best Feature. AMC

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Speaker 1: Networks is all in on Grapplers. The company assigned to

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Speaker 1: deal with TNA Wrestling to bring it to its linear

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Speaker 1: and streaming platforms. TNA's Thursday Night Impact franchise will join

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Speaker 1: AMC Network's linear lineup and the AMC Plus streaming platform

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Speaker 1: starting on January fifteenth. Riety is covering the Marakesh Film

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Speaker 1: Festival this week in Morocco. Motion Picture Academy CEO Bill

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Speaker 1: Kramer is there too, and in a conversation earlier today,

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Speaker 1: he reinforced the academy's global scope. He said, quote, we

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Speaker 1: are not the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce. End quote. All

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Speaker 1: of these stories and so much more can be found

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Speaker 1: on vriday dot com right now, and now it's time

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Speaker 1: for conversations with Friday journalists about news and trends and

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Speaker 1: show business. Microdramas and short form vertical content is going

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Speaker 1: more mainstream by the day. Brian Steinberg, Vardy's senior television editor,

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Speaker 1: gives us a report on the deal between Televis Univision

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Speaker 1: and retailer J C. Penny to produce short form serials

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Speaker 1: for the Vick streaming platform. Brian Steinberg, thank you for

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Speaker 1: joining me, Thanks for having me well. As often is

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Speaker 1: the case, I'm scrolling around the Variety website and I

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Speaker 1: came across your story about tel Avisa Univision ordering micro

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Speaker 1: dramas and they have a big charter sponsor in JC Penny,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, this is just a stew of interesting

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Speaker 1: trends that I want to talk to Brian Steinberg about.

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Speaker 1: So here we are, Brian, let me step back and

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Speaker 1: ask you tel Avisa Univision, they're investing in microdramas, these

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Speaker 1: really short form, highly serialized shows. What is tel Avisa

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Speaker 1: Univision saying about what they want to do with micro dramas.

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Speaker 2: They see these short form, bite size like quick hit

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Speaker 2: serials a great thing for their Australian service called vis Vix,

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Speaker 2: and they've commissioned at thirty for this year and they

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Speaker 2: say they're going to ramp it up Bryce Stelley in

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Speaker 2: twenty six without one hundred of these things, and so

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Speaker 2: they've been seeking sponsorship for these new shows pretty readily

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Speaker 2: since the summertime.

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Speaker 1: Give us a sense of like length of time and

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Speaker 1: how many episodes in a full series.

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Speaker 2: My understandings are like one minute long episode, and they're

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Speaker 2: kind of like the telenovelas that maybe this generation's parents

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Speaker 2: and grandparents watches on Univision and Telemundo, very serialized, highly

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Speaker 2: dramatic soap operas that people watch in primetime, but there's

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Speaker 2: stories and people who watch them watch them with with

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Speaker 2: great rabidity. And this is the I guess, the modern equivalent,

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Speaker 2: but it's told in an hour. You're told me to

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Speaker 2: quick hit one minute long things, and you can flip

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Speaker 2: from one video in this much like you might do

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Speaker 2: on TikTok or Facebook's reels.

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Speaker 1: So the microdrama format, the classic microdrama format that has

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Speaker 1: been exported from Asia has been on streaming apps and

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Speaker 1: you pay as you go. This is a different model.

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Speaker 2: I'm presuming this is still in the experimental phase. These

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Speaker 2: are being mostly made for this big streaming service. They

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Speaker 2: want a stickier venue that has things for young people

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Speaker 2: to kind of swipe up and down and keep going.

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Speaker 2: I think their initial research shows people are watching twenty

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Speaker 2: four of these things in a single session.

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Speaker 1: And j C. Penny will be the sole advertiser, so

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Speaker 1: they will have the total share of void on this.

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Speaker 2: What jac Penny is doing is a little different. They're

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Speaker 2: creating their own microdrama that Universion proves themselves, and it

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Speaker 2: comes about a holiday shopping theme. These are ninety seconds

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Speaker 2: long and they're going to be shown across the Universion's

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Speaker 2: various social handles as well as Jesse Penny's whole handle.

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Speaker 2: So not an ad on the streaming service, but an

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Speaker 2: ad created by Univision for j C. Penny. I would

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Speaker 2: assume there's some sort of other commitments of sponsor advertising,

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Speaker 2: but it's a start for a different cloud commercial rather

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Speaker 2: than thirty seconds that interrupts the show, here's the show

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Speaker 2: on itself with holiday themes that promote JC Pennies products.

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Speaker 2: And in addition, you can shop the clicking with your

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Speaker 2: remote or your phone.

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Speaker 1: The mind reels. I think somewhere mister mccannon and mister

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Speaker 1: Erickson are saluting that you found a way to make

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Speaker 1: the content the commercial and vice versa. But no, this

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Speaker 1: is really fascinating. I mean, this is the integration, the

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Speaker 1: convergence that we have known is coming. Let me ask

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Speaker 1: you from J. C. Penny's perspective, from the corporate advertiser,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like is this a flyer for them?

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Speaker 1: Do you do you think that they're seeing the research

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Speaker 1: that this is where you go to reach younger consumers,

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Speaker 1: because I gotta believe that that's a big part of this.

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Speaker 2: I think there was a definite effort to reach younger

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Speaker 2: viewers on their consumers. Spanish speaking consumers, Hispanic and Latino

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Speaker 2: audiences are growing in this country and there is a

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Speaker 2: new effort to try and reach them, and I think

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Speaker 2: advertisers are eager to reach them in an authentic fash.

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Speaker 1: Tele AVC Univision is telling you in your story that

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Speaker 1: they project doing as many as one hundred next year.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty staggering.

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Speaker 2: They clearly are seeing traction here and they feel the

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Speaker 2: audience must like them. So I think that they see

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Speaker 2: a viability here.

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Speaker 1: You quote their US head of advertising, Tim Natividad, who says, quote, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we know a trend when we see it end quote.

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Speaker 1: Do you see Madison Avenue embracing this content in a

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Speaker 1: big way?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's more of it being made. I mean there's

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Speaker 2: two new sports streaming services from ESPN and Fox. Both

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Speaker 2: of them have short form content. They call them verts

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Speaker 2: on ESPN, they call them shorts on Fox one. I

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Speaker 2: think there's a real effort to bring younger viewers back

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Speaker 2: to these more traditional companies with some of the content.

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Speaker 2: They quickly expressed an interest in, Brian.

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Speaker 1: You had the scoop on this partnership between JC Penny

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Speaker 1: and tel Avic Univision, was that from keeping your ear

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Speaker 1: to the ground on Madison Avenue.

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Speaker 2: Well, Univision itself gave us a scoop during the upfront.

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Speaker 2: Do they were unveiling these new microdramas and want to

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Speaker 2: add support for them? So I continue to knock on

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Speaker 2: their door and say, Hey, any fruity, anyone sponsoring these things?

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Speaker 2: What's going on here? Because you know sometimes people in Alice,

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Speaker 2: thinking me upfront that never ever see the light of

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Speaker 2: day because no one ever sponsors them. So this guy

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Speaker 2: was really curious to see this new format and got

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Speaker 2: some traction with clients and average and they did come

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Speaker 2: to us when they did have a signed deal.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes just knocking on the door, ringing the phone enough times,

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Speaker 1: they'll be so happy to tell you when there is

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Speaker 1: something done, so that they can just get you off

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Speaker 1: their phone sheet. That's called reporting. Brian, and now we

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Speaker 1: turned to Chris Willman to talk about record store Day,

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Speaker 1: the revival of vinyl album sales, and what it all

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Speaker 1: says about music and fandom and the search for community

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Speaker 1: in the digital age. We also trip across a funny

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Speaker 1: coincidence involving my record store Alma Mater, Canterbury Records in Pasadena,

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Speaker 1: that I swear was not planned. Chris Willman, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining me. Love to be with you. You

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Speaker 1: are en route to see a show, which is pretty

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Speaker 1: much your natural state, and I appreciate you taking some

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Speaker 1: time out to talk to me. You posted a great

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Speaker 1: story about the combination of record store Day and Black Friday,

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Speaker 1: which has become a holiday tradition, and I've been wanting

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about. Of course, the vinyl trend

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Speaker 1: is not new. It's been around now for years. But

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Speaker 1: as somebody who in a previous life when I did

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Speaker 1: work for a fabulous mom and pop record shop, Canterbury Records,

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Speaker 1: it's still there, it's still independent, it's still awesome. I

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Speaker 1: sold a lot of vinyl when I worked there in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and early nineties, and I also worked there

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Speaker 1: when the CD transition came in back then. If you'd

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Speaker 1: have told me thirty years later vinyl would make a comeback,

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Speaker 1: a serious comeback, I would have been completely skeptical. For now,

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Speaker 1: we're probably ten years into the vinyl revival. Chris, what

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Speaker 1: fuels it?

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Speaker 3: Well, a number of things. You know, there are that

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Speaker 3: minority of people, strong minority, who like things that are tactiles,

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Speaker 3: that aren't zeros and ones. And so for some people,

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Speaker 3: like a lot of Taylor Swift fans, they buy the

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Speaker 3: vinyl and they don't play it. They don't necessarily have

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Speaker 3: a turntable. I mean a lot of them do, but

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Speaker 3: a lot of them don't, and they'd like to display

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Speaker 3: the cover art or hold it in their hands while

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Speaker 3: they're listening to the stream. Having that needle in that

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Speaker 3: groove is a very physical sensation in a world where

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Speaker 3: there are fewer things that are not purely digital. Some

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Speaker 3: people will let me tell you that the sound is warmer,

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Speaker 3: so I think the cover art tangibility. And also, you

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Speaker 3: can't get someone to autograph a stream for you. But

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Speaker 3: if you go to a show and you go to

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Speaker 3: somebody some birch booth, chances are they will not have

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Speaker 3: CDs that they will have vinyl there and they'll be

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Speaker 3: signing it and people treasure that, so that's part of it.

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Speaker 1: Record Store Day has grown to be such an event

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Speaker 1: that labels plan releases around Record Store Day Priss. When

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Speaker 1: is it usually held?

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Speaker 3: That's always twice a year now. The main Record Store

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Speaker 3: Day is every April. It's either the second or third

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Speaker 3: Saturday in April. And then the adjunct edition is the

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Speaker 3: Black Friday edition, which is not a small edition because

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Speaker 3: when you look at the number of releases for records

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Speaker 3: at Day in April, it's around three hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 3: It's about half that for Record Store Day Black Friday,

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Speaker 3: but one hundred and seventy five is still a lot.

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Speaker 3: So it still takes a lot of time if you're

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Speaker 3: studying what you want to buy, to go through that

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Speaker 3: line at to study how many copies of each are pressed,

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Speaker 3: of the ones you want to get, and decide how

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Speaker 3: early you want to get in line or how scarce

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Speaker 3: you think things are going to be. So one hundred

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Speaker 3: and seventy five is very healthy, even if that's just

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Speaker 3: half of what happens in April. But it is funny

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Speaker 3: having it on Black Friday, because you know it's the

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Speaker 3: one opportunity now people have to stand in line. If

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Speaker 3: that's your thing, and it is mine.

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Speaker 1: Chris, where did you go? I'm curious, Amiba, No.

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Speaker 3: I go to youur oal Chop where you used to

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Speaker 3: work Category Records in Pasadena. That's my go to. It's

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Speaker 3: fun to go to an independent, you know, a truly

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Speaker 3: independent show. I mean, Amiba is independent, but to go

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Speaker 3: to something that's a little bit more of a mom

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Speaker 3: pos shop feels sort of more in spirit with the day.

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Speaker 1: That completely warms my heart. I'm looking over the list

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Speaker 1: of releases for Black Friday. It's a really eclectic mix.

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Speaker 1: It's everything from Chapel Roon and Billie Eilish to a

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and eighty one show of Bad Brains, which

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Speaker 1: that's getting pretty obscure these days. I'm guessing that labels

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Speaker 1: look for artists that just have rabid fandom.

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Speaker 3: It's very obscure groups sometimes, and if you look at

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Speaker 3: the number of quantities, it's pretty vast in the difference

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Speaker 3: these days. The lowest quantity I saw for anything looking

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Speaker 3: over the list was nine hundred or maybe even six hundred,

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Speaker 3: But then the highest were I believe Billie Eilish with

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Speaker 3: twenty thousand copies and Chapel Road with thirty thousand. But

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Speaker 3: that's very extreme for records to day. Most things are

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Speaker 3: in the one to six thousand copy range. Oh, it's

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Speaker 3: always interesting to see, like what the manufacturers, the labels,

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Speaker 3: maybe the artists themselves. In some cases, you know, I

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Speaker 3: think they'll sell because like there was a Billy Joel

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Speaker 3: triple album that they only press fifteen hundred copies though,

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Speaker 3: and they could have sold several times that amount. And

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Speaker 3: then there are maybe some lesser not acts that press

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Speaker 3: too many copies. And you can go into Canterbury and

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Speaker 3: still see a few years later.

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Speaker 1: Going into twenty twenty six for Record Store Day be

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Speaker 1: so strong? What does that tell us about fandom and

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Speaker 1: pop music and gathering.

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Speaker 3: So it is a chance to, you know, just celebrate

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Speaker 3: that space where when we all live in the digital stratosphere,

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Speaker 3: we're all doing our own thing, and so we go

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Speaker 3: to concerts and movies. But to actually be like in

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Speaker 3: a retail space where people feel that, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: an odd sensation that we certainly would have taken for

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Speaker 3: granted back in the day of liquorice pizza in the warehouse.

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Speaker 3: So it can be a gathering space where you actually

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Speaker 3: meet people for the first time. One thing that strikes

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Speaker 3: me about it is just how many of the people

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Speaker 3: who are going are not just there for one style

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Speaker 3: of music. I think everybody kind of looks over the

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Speaker 3: list and go, Okay, yeah, I know I want this

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Speaker 3: one thing, but maybe I'll take a chance on this

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Speaker 3: Curtis Mayfield reissue that people are talking about. And in

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Speaker 3: the day after recordster Day or a couple of days after,

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Speaker 3: I see forums where people are going net gosh, now

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Speaker 3: that I've read so much people raving about the Curtis

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Speaker 3: Mayfield I'm going to go see if I can find

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Speaker 3: us store it still has it in stock, or find

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Speaker 3: a copy online, and so it's a chance to kind

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Speaker 3: of share opinions and takes on things you would never

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Speaker 3: normally talk about in daily life with people where all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, like there are thousands of people across

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Speaker 3: the country who are excited about Bill Evans and wanting

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Speaker 3: to share that with the people who are in it

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Speaker 3: for Chapel Road, and there's some overlap there. So that's

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Speaker 3: part of the fun for me.

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Speaker 1: Well, I completely co sign and I just remember the

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Speaker 1: joy of the regular visits to my favorite record shops.

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Speaker 1: Nowadays I make a special trip, but there was a

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Speaker 1: time when it was going to the record shop was

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Speaker 1: just like going to the grocery store. Chris, let me ask,

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Speaker 1: what was the first thing that you listened to when

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Speaker 1: you got home with your record store day treasures.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was fortunate, and then I got some preview copies,

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Speaker 3: which feels a little bit like cheating. There's a collection

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Speaker 3: of Talking Heads demos and including stuff from before they

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Speaker 3: even call themselves talking Heads in nineteen seventy and there

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Speaker 3: was a Bob Dylan released where it was the Free

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Speaker 3: Wheel and Bob Dylan album as it was originally conceived

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Speaker 3: with four different songs and the ones that actually ended

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Speaker 3: up on the final version of the album is a

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Speaker 3: Joni Mitchell collection from the Rolling Thunder review tour, where

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Speaker 3: she kind of opened for Bob Dylan of stuff from

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five seventy six. I listened to stuff that

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Speaker 3: I don't normally put on every day because it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I should listen to this Billy Joel live album and

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Speaker 3: it's really good, even though Billy Joel has not been

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Speaker 3: my favorite artist or anything. So part of it's that discovery.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the Dylan, the talking heads of that

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Speaker 3: sort of stuff is a little bit of a sweet

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Speaker 3: spot that I had to put on first.

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Speaker 1: Chris is always thank you for being the beacon of

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Speaker 1: all things great and wondrous about music.

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Speaker 3: Always glad to be with you. Thanks Antha.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for. He's producing digital dailies this week out

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Speaker 1: of Buenos Aires at the Ventana sur Film Market this week.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the biggest in Latin America. The event

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Speaker 1: started in two thousand and nine as a joint venture

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Speaker 1: of the Cannes Film Festival and the state Film and

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Speaker 1: TV Agency of Argentina and now Uruguay is also a partner.

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Speaker 1: Don't miss my colleague Todd Spangler's report on YouTube's year

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Speaker 1: end recap list. The Digital Giant has unveiled a personal

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Speaker 1: recap feature this year, which tracks an individual user's watch history.

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Speaker 1: They also released some general lists. Among the year's top

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Speaker 1: trending topics were Squid Game, The Boo Boos, k Pop,

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Speaker 1: Demon Hunters, Nintendo Switch To, and of course brain Rot.

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Speaker 1: We love to hear from our listeners, so please send thoughts, gripes,

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Speaker 1: and other feedback about Daily Variety to podcasts at Variety

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Speaker 1: dot com. Before we go, congrats to Rob Marcus. He's

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Speaker 1: been promoted to head of International for WM's contemporary music team.

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Speaker 1: Marcus has with The ten Percentury for more than twenty years.

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Speaker 1: He was most recently a senior partner. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: This episode was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton,

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Speaker 1: with contributions from Briin Steinberg and Chris Willman. Sticks Nick's

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Speaker 1: hick picks. Please leave us a review at the podcast

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Speaker 1: platform of your choice, and please tune in tomorrow for

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Speaker 1: another episode of Daily Variety and don't Forget to tell

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Speaker 1: us what you think at podcasts at Variety dot com.