1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. So, if 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: you live in or have visited Greenville or Charleston, South Carolina, 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: odds are pretty good that you maybe have seen a 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: historical marker here or there that honors Joel points Set 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: or visited one of the many places that bear his name. 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: He was a statesman who was connected to some really 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: important moments in our nation's history. But uh, he was 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: of course also human, and not all of his actions 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: really look so noble upon closer inspection. Uh. It's very 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 1: very interesting reading histories that involve him, because some of 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: the ones written closer to when he lived are very 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: a brilliant And as we get farther and farther out 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: on the timeline, people start to see the bigger picture 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: and how impacted things and they get a little more oops, Uh, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: there were some problems. Here's so great a right. Point 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: Set is also credited with introducing the holiday plant named 19 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: after him. The point setia into the US from Mexico. 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: So this is a bit of a holiday episode, and 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: it's actually kind of a case of two parts biography 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: and then the last part will be holiday horticulture. And 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: because of that holiday connection, we should also mention that 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: this episode is sponsored by FedEx, who asked to sponsor 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: one of our holiday episodes this year. So, Joel Roberts 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: point Set was born into a wealthy family in Charleston, 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: South Carolina, on March second, seventeen seventy nine. He was 28 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: a descendant of Pierre point Set and Sarah Foucherrou, who 29 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: had established the family in the colonial southern what would 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: be the US in the sixteen eighties. So even though 31 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: he was born when the United States was still in 32 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: its infancy as an independent nation, the points that family 33 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: had been there for quite a while before that. Yeah, 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: they were well established, wealthy, known in the community already. 35 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: And as a note on place of birth in case 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: you go digging, I did find one family genealogy right 37 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: up that mentioned that point Set was actually born in 38 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: London and then naturalized. That doesn't seem to be the case. 39 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Most official sources list Charleston as his place of birth, 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: although it does appear that the family traveled to London 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: when Joel was still very very tiny, And I think 42 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: that's part of the confusion in any disparate accounts you 43 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: might see. His father was Dr Alicia point Set, and 44 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: Dr point Set was one of his son's earliest teachers. 45 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: Joel's family's wealth enabled him to get really a lot 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: of education. After his private tutoring as a young boy, 47 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 1: he went on to Greenfield, Connecticut, where he was educated 48 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: by the Reverend Dr Timothy Dwight the Fourth, who would 49 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: eventually become president of Yale College. And Joel, being born 50 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: in the south, found the climate in Connecticut to be unpleasant. 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: One biography that I looked at, written in the late 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: eighteen eighties, indicates that he was often ill because of 53 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: the cold weather in Connecticut. So after two years there 54 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: he returned home to the warmer southern temps, and next 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: he went on to Saint Paul's School outside of London, 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: which was run by one of points sets relatives. During 57 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: this time he studied classics and languages and became really 58 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: multi fluent in a lot of languages. He spoke German, French, 59 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: Spanish and Italian. He also picked up a bit of 60 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: Russian as well. Next, he moved on some medical school 61 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: in Edinburgh, Scotland, although once again, the weather and the 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: effort of his studies led to some difficulties with his health. 63 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: He took a sojourn to Portugal and then finally landed 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: at a military school in Woolwich, England. It's kind of 65 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: seems like he was a little bit unfocused, but he 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: really responded to the military school and he decided that 67 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: that would be his life's career. That did not go 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: over well with his dad. Doctor point Set did not 69 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: want his son to be a soldier. Uh and after 70 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: some back and forth, it was decided that Joel would 71 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: go back home to South Carolina and study law, and 72 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: that lasted for a year before points That decided that 73 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: that was also a path that was simply not for him. 74 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: When he was finished with formal education, points That traveled 75 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: the globe for seven years, primarily in Europe and Western Asia. 76 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: Two years into these travels, his father died and left 77 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: him a significant fortune that left him in this enviable 78 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: situation of really having no urgency for choosing his life's vocation. 79 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: His wealth and his linguistic skills made him a source 80 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: of fascination wherever he traveled, and he was able to 81 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: meet heads of state and basically hang out with the 82 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: highest rungs of society on his journeys. Points That did 83 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: eventually return to the US and though he thought he 84 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: would finally pursue a military career, in eighteen ten, he 85 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: was given an appointment as a special agent in Chile 86 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: and Argentina, working for President Madison. And this work was 87 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: investigative in nature. He was kind of undercover. He was 88 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: to study the revolutionary endeavors in those places and in 89 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: other South American countries as they made moves to gain 90 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: independence from Spain. Part of the reason that points That 91 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: was given this job was because he was well known 92 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: at the time for his extensive studies abroad. Most people 93 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: believed that he had an unsurpassed knowledge of European politics, 94 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: especially as it related to intentions regarding the expansion of 95 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: land holdings in North America. Additionally, his lengthy travels after 96 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: he left school had, as we mentioned, introduced him to 97 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: a lot of leaders in a variety of countries. They 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: all spoke pretty well of him. For example, Zar Alexander 99 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: of Russia is said to have told John Quincy Adams 100 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: that points That should be the U. S. Ambassador to Russia. 101 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: This appointment and mission to South America came at a 102 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: time when Spain's colonies had grown frustrated with being governed 103 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: from Europe by Napoleon's brother, Joseph Bonaparte, who Napoleon had 104 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: installed as the King of Spain. The US was also 105 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: embroiled in the tentions that would lead up to the 106 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: War of eighteen twelve with England. Europe was carefully watching 107 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: what was happening in North and Central America, and Madison 108 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: wanted an expert on all of these moving parts to 109 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: figure out the best way through it and hopefully away 110 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: to bolster u s territory holdings in the process, points 111 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: that supported the revolutionary efforts in Chile and Argentina. Both 112 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: from his own personal perspective and at Madison's direction, the 113 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: US wanted to establish trade agreements with the provisional governments 114 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: of the revolutionaries there. One of the goals was to 115 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: exert some influence on them before the British could. The 116 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: British also had relationships with these revolutionary governments, and they're 117 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: very lucrative ports. So it was u unsurprising, based on 118 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: various things we've talked about with US foreign policy, you 119 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: that like the US is trying to get there before 120 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: anybody else. Yeah, it's kind of like, um, you know, 121 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: a precursor to Scramble for Africa just happening in South America. 122 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: It's a lot of the same playbook. And in Chile, 123 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: points Set became more and more embroiled in the politics there, 124 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: even fighting alongside insurgent forces and encouraging them to make 125 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: some pretty bold moves in their efforts, which ultimately failed 126 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: when the leaders of the movement were captured. Points Set 127 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: got to make his way back to the United States. 128 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: In eighteen sixteen, points That returned to Charleston and was 129 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: voted in as a member of the state House of 130 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: Representatives before he even got home, so he had that 131 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: job waiting for him when he got back to the state, 132 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: and then later he was re elected for a second term. 133 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: In eighteen nineteen, he became the president of the South 134 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: Carolina Board of Public Works, and it was during his 135 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: time in this role that he oversaw some pretty significant 136 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure developments for South Carolina. So modern day South Carolina's 137 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: Secondary State Road forty two actually and as a point 138 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: Set project, running from Charleston into North Carolina and creating 139 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: one major thoroughfare to replace the need to use several connecting, 140 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: smaller roads to make that same route. In eighteen twenty 141 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: he became a member of the U. S House of 142 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Representatives and was made part of the Foreign Affairs Committee 143 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: because of his background. In eight two points that was 144 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: given a mission to travel to Mexico at the behest 145 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: of President James Monroe to assess the potential for a 146 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: diplomatic relationship between the two nations. Out of this travel, 147 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: he published the book Notes on Mexico in eighteen twenty four. 148 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: Notes on Mexico contained some really racist rhetoric. Uh, this 149 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: is actually pretty unsurprising. Point Set was a slave owner. 150 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: He definitely believed that a hierarchy based on race helped 151 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: maintain order, and he wrote in his book about Mexico 152 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: that the fledgling country was able to function on its own. 153 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: He thought it could govern itself, but also thought that 154 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: it would do that in the best possible way if 155 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: the white Mexicans maintained seats of power. From eight to 156 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty nine, Points That was the first US minister 157 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: to Mexico, appointed by John Quincy Adams. This is a 158 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: little bit funny because it came from a president that 159 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: points that had campaigned against particularly hard. He had been 160 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: a staunch supporter of Andrew Jackson in the election. Andrew 161 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: Jackson had been offered the Mexico minister post but had 162 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: turned it down. Has had a number of other people 163 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: before they got too point Set on the list. Yeah, 164 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: he's you know, often lauded as this first minister to Mexico, 165 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: but it's like, well, but he was like fourth choice. Uh, 166 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Joel point Sets time in Mexico, 167 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: which is a mixed bag, to be sure. But before 168 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: we get into that, let's take a little sponsor break. 169 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: While Jewel points Set was in Mexico, he became so 170 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: well known that his name became a new word points satismo. 171 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: To be clear, this is not a word with a 172 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: good connotation. It is pejorative. It means someone who is 173 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: a snooty butinsky who involves themselves in the affairs of 174 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: others and presumes to know better as an outsider than 175 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: anyone involved in a situation. And he got that name 176 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: because he inserted himself into the goings on of politics 177 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: in Mexico, to the point the Mexican government had kind 178 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: of just had it with him and he really just 179 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: stepped in it right out of the gate. And the 180 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: time that he was there, Points that was a member 181 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: of the Freemasons, and immediately after he started his position 182 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: as Minister Planet Potentiary, several lodges asked for assistance in 183 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: getting a charter as a group of York Right Lodges. 184 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: He did help them secure that charter in Mexico. At 185 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: this time, Freemasonry was akin to political parties, and the 186 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: York Right Lodges were reformist. The Scottish righte Lodges were 187 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: more conservative. And as a man who was operating as 188 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: a US agent in Mexico and helping the York Right Lodges, 189 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: which also happened to align more closely with US ideals 190 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: at the time and attending their meetings, really points that 191 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: was making a very strong political statement. Gonn come back 192 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: to the Freemasonry issue in a moment. Oh yes. So 193 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: one of points Sets directives in this job was to 194 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: try to get Mexico to agree to an alteration of 195 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: the terms of the Adams Onnee Treaty of eighteen nine. 196 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: That was the treaty between the U S and Spain 197 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: that established new boundary lines for each country's claims on 198 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: land in North America in the treaty, which will sometimes 199 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: also see called the Transcontinental Treaty and sometimes even the 200 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: Purchase of Florida, Spain ceded Florida and gave up the 201 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: Oregon Country. In an exchange, Spain gained control over Texas 202 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: as a very simplified version. And of course the US 203 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: wanted some of that land that it had given over 204 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: to Spain and the treaty and wanted to get that 205 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: land back once the Mexican War of Independence had ended 206 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: in Mexico had signed the Declaration of Independence of the 207 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: Mexican Empire in September of eighteen twenty one. That offered 208 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: an opportunity to rework this whole deal, this time with Mexico. 209 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: In eighteen twenty seven, as part of his dogged efforts 210 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: to gain more land for the US, points Set was 211 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: given authority to make an offer of one million dollars 212 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: to Mexico for attractive land bounded by the Rio Grande 213 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: north to the Arkansas River. Lucas Alamann, Mexico's secretary of 214 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: Foreign affairs turned this offer down. In eighteen twenty eight, 215 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: points That signed a treaty with Mexico to accept the 216 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen boundary line that had been negotiated with Spain 217 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: as valid under the Mexican government, although that treaty wasn't 218 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: ratified by Mexico for several years. Two point set that 219 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: seemed like a pretty minor setback, and because Anglo Americans 220 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: were moving into Texas already, he thought that the issue 221 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: could be revisited down the road with a case made 222 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: that US citizens were already living in this disputed area. 223 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: This did ultimately work out, although it did take a while. 224 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: Right there's that whole Republic of Texas claiming independence and 225 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: then becoming annexed as part of the us UH and 226 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 1: it part of it was that, um there were Anglo 227 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: people living there at the time, so a growing power 228 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: base for the York Knoes. Those were members of the 229 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: York Right Lodges in each election Throughout Point sets time 230 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: in Mexico led to a suspicion that there was some 231 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: shady and seditious work going on in the societies, and 232 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: because he had helped the York Right lodges, point set 233 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: was implicated in this suspicion. Points that claimed via a 234 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: pamphlet that he did not really understand that this was 235 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: the case, and that he thought that the lodges he 236 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: helped were just interested in the usual humanitarian work of 237 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: the Freemasons. He went on to say that he had 238 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: chosen to withdraw from participating in the meetings when he 239 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: realized that what was happening with the lodge was that 240 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: it was furthering the political interests of its members. And 241 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: this is really kind of an interesting case to make 242 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: for his innocence in the matter, because in claiming that 243 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: he didn't mean to tip the balance of power in 244 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: the country where he was assigned because he did not 245 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: know that the lodges were political, he's kind of admitting 246 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: that he probably didn't really understand his job. It's like, 247 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: I didn't know, but aren't you the expert in Mexico 248 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: and European relations. Well, I accidentally didn't know what I 249 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: was doing in my job. But at the same time, uh, 250 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: he was telling a very different story to his bosses 251 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: in the US. He actually had written that the work 252 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: that he was doing with the Freemasons had been the 253 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: best way to counter British influence in Mexico. In seven, 254 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: Vice President Nicolas Bravo, in connection with a planned rebellion 255 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: put together a four part pronouncement known as the Plan 256 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: to Montagno. In it, Bravo stated that secret society should 257 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: be prohibited by law. He was himself a Mason of 258 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: the Scottish Rite Lodge. Also proclaimed that the president's minister 259 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: should be ejected and replaced in the country's constitution of 260 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty four should be enforced, and that Joel points 261 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: That should be booted out of the country. Please let 262 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: me never be so bad at a job that an 263 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: entire country wants to have me removed. Uh. In eighteen 264 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: twenty eight, after a long period of tension and part 265 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: of this rebellion that we we mentioned this was connected 266 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: to and the violence that came with it, General Vicente 267 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: Guerrero was elected President of Mexico. Guerrero was a York 268 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: right freemason, and point Set was happy with this election outcome. 269 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: But Guerrero, even though points Set was kind of an 270 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: ally of his, also recognized the Jewel point Set was 271 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: a problematic and destabilizing figure in the country. By eighteen 272 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: twenty nine, everyone was so irritated with points Set and 273 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: that whole situation that Guerrero pressured the U S government 274 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: to recall him, which President Andrew Jackson did, and the 275 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: man who had been heard to as quote a sagacious 276 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: and hypocritical foreign minister, as zealous for the prosperity of 277 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: his own country as inimical to ours, was sent home. 278 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: Things actually got even worse with the new minister to Mexico, 279 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: who was Anthony Butler, but that is outside the scope 280 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: of this episode, possibly a future one. In eighteen thirty 281 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: is part of a Freemason ceremony in which he was 282 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: being honored. Points that stated quote, I have been most 283 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: unjustly accused of extending our order and our principles into 284 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: a neighboring country, with a view of converting them into 285 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: an engine of political influence. I solemnly aver that this 286 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: accusation is false and unfounded, and that if Masonry has 287 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: anywhere been converted to any other purposes than that for 288 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: which it was instituted, I have in no way contributed 289 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: to such perversion of its principles. After this point, set 290 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: became a major player in the Unionist party in South Carolina. 291 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty, he was once again elected to the 292 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: State House of Representatives. The nullification crisis was brewing during 293 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: his time in office, in which John C. Calhoun was 294 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: leading a call for the state to nullify the federal 295 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: tariffs of eighteen and eighteen thirty two, which, in very 296 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: simple terms, favored northern economic stability and heavily taxed southern goods. 297 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: Points That worked to keep South Carolina and the Union 298 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: keeping Andrew Jackson posted on all the developments as they unfolded. 299 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: Jackson made a proclamation to South Carolina in December of 300 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty two, as Calhoun and his supporters were hoping 301 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: to get other states to join in their rejection of 302 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: the tariffs. Jackson's missive made clear that what they were 303 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: trying to do was treason. Ultimately, of course, the Union 304 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: remained intact, and in eighteen thirty seven, points Set was 305 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 1: named as Secretary of War by President Martin van Buren, 306 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: in part as a reward for his work during the 307 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: nullification crisis. In his position on the President's cabinet, point 308 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: Set was instrumental in the forced migration of thousands of 309 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: Native Americans from their lands under the Indian Removal Act 310 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty points That was one of the founders 311 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: of the National Institute for the Promotion of Science this 312 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: organization was renamed the National Institution, and under that Moniker 313 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: it became the caretaker of artifacts and collections that were 314 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: part of a vision that Points that had of the 315 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: United States developing museums that were equal to any elsewhere 316 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: in the world. This collection grew, and this entity eventually 317 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: involved into the Smithsonian Institution. He's such a mixed bag 318 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: that Joel point Set. In eighteen forty one, Joel point 319 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: Set's position as Secretary of War ended as William Henry 320 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: Harrison was inaugurated and he retired. At this point, he 321 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: settled in at the family plantation in Charleston, but he 322 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: didn't stay entirely out of politics, even though he was 323 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: no longer holding office or any kind of position of 324 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: prominence officially. This was, of course, twenty years before the U. 325 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: S Civil War, and a lot of the issues that 326 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: would lead to that conflict were already part of a 327 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: very heated debate. As a secessionist movement grew in South Carolina, 328 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: Points that was vocally against it. Once again, he used 329 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: his influence to keep the union intact. Points That died 330 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: on December twelve one of tuberculosis, which was also made 331 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: worse by pneumonia and today, as we mentioned at the 332 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: top of the episode, there are historical markers dedicated to 333 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 1: points Set throughout South Carolina and the number of places 334 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: named after him. In two thousand one, a life size 335 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: statue of point Set was placed in front of the 336 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: old Greenville Courthouse, and in it he's depicted sitting on 337 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: a rectangular base with his hat and coat placed beside him. 338 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: People tend to like sit next to him for photo ops. 339 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: I have to have seen this and I have no 340 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: recollection of it. All right, So now we're going to 341 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: talk about the plants that has become so deeply connected 342 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: to Christmas and to winter decors that ties into point 343 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: Set story. First, we will hear from some sponsors that 344 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: keep our show going. Now, since we are headed into 345 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: the winter holidays, we wanted to focus a little bit 346 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: on Joel point Sets impact on them. We mentioned earlier 347 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: that he is credited with bringing the plant that came 348 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: to be named after him, the point Setia, into the 349 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: US from Mexico, and this happened in when he was 350 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: serving as ambassador to Mexico. The point Setia Latin name 351 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: Euphorbia pulcaryma is a shrub that normally flowers in the winter. 352 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: The blooms kind of in quotation marks, are really modified 353 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: leaves that form into little clusters of bracts, and then 354 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: the color change in those leaves requires twelve hours of 355 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: darkness every day for five consecutive days in order for 356 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: that to happen. That is a part of a process 357 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: called photo periodism. Once the color change happens, then they 358 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: need a lot of sunlight to get to maximum color saturation. 359 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: In its native Central American habitat the point, Setia can 360 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: grow as tall as ten to fifteen feet that's three 361 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: to four and a half meters high, and it's a 362 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: perenni shrub. Although a lot of people, I would say, 363 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: probably only see them as potted plants around the holidays 364 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: if you are not in those areas. Yeah, there are 365 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: surprising numbers of things that we see as potted plants 366 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: in North America that in Central America and the Caribbean 367 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: and the Caribbean are like vegantic. Yeah, I mean even um, 368 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: I lived in Arizona when I was very little and 369 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: we had pointed is growing in the yard that got 370 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: quite big. But like I don't even have a hugely 371 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: clear memories of them. I've seen them in pictures. Yeah, 372 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: So that mean that's all leads to a question of 373 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: how did this plant go from being just a native 374 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: plant in Central America to becoming the it flower of 375 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: the winter holiday season. While he was traveling in Taxico, Mexico, 376 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: southwest of Mexico City, Points that is said to have 377 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: encountered this really striking plant. The locals called it la 378 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: florida note buena that literally translates to good night flower, 379 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: although it has a different meaning that we'll talk about 380 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: in just a moment. This plant was well known for 381 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: centuries before Points that saw it, with the Nahua people's 382 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: name for it catless show cheetle attributed to the plant 383 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: all the way back to the Aztecs. The lore there 384 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: is that the thread of the flower was associated with 385 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: blood sacrifice, and we also know that it was a 386 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: highly prized plant in Aztec culture and considered a royal plant. 387 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: So even though it didn't have great survival in the 388 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: city of Tenochtitlan precursor to Mexico City, my apologies for 389 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: that pronunciation. Due to its high altitude, the plants were 390 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: regularly brought there from the surrounding areas. That plant, which 391 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: Montezuma is said to have been particularly fond of, was 392 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: used in religious ceremonies and also in more practical applications. 393 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: Pigment extracted from the plants was used in textile dying, 394 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: and the sap was believed to have medicinal properties. That 395 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: sap can in fact cause an adverse reaction for some 396 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: people in the form of a rash or otherwise irritated skin. 397 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: That phrase no buena, though, is also used for Christmas Eve, 398 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: and the plant has other names in Spanish that translate 399 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: to things like fireflower, Christmas Star, and others. So well 400 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: before points that encountered it, this plant was already associated 401 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: with Christmas, and there is actually a folklore tale that 402 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: goes along with the post Aztec Christmas association. This legend 403 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: is about a little girl who was very poor, and 404 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: she was dismayed as she walked to church because she 405 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: had nothing to leave on the altar for the baby Jesus. 406 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: She heard the voice of an angel telling her to 407 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: take branches from the plants growing by the path where 408 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: she walked. The angel, according to the story, had heard 409 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: her praying and reassured her that these plants would be 410 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: a fine gift to leave on the altar. Some versions 411 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: of the story characterize these plants as weeds, others to 412 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: talk about them being sort of native flora. But when 413 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: the little girl, still crying, place these cuttings on the altar, 414 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: her tears transformed them into beautiful red flowers, and these, 415 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: according to legend, were the first flores. I feel like 416 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: I might have heard a version of the star in church. 417 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: Probably points That was interested in botany, and particularly with 418 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: the idea of importing plants from other parts of the 419 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: world into the US, So when he saw these plants, 420 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: he said to have sent some home to South Carolina, 421 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: where he already had hot houses. According to legend, he 422 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: first spotted them in an activity scene. He tended the 423 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: plants that he shipped home and then propagated them, and 424 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: as his collection of them started to grow, he shared 425 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: them with other plant enthusiasts and his social circle. And 426 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: though point Set brought the plants into the country, according 427 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: to legend, it was after he shipped some to Philadelphia 428 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: that their commercial viability became evident. Shortly after he began 429 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: successfully propagating the red and green plants in his greenhouse, 430 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: point Set sent some to a friend in Philadelphia named 431 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: Colonel Robert Carr. In June nine, Car showed the plant 432 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: at a flower show held by the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, 433 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: and interest in these beautiful plants was instant among the 434 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: hundreds of people who saw it in the show. We 435 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: really don't know for sure if that version of events 436 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: is true. Any of this movement that happened might have 437 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: taken place at points that's direction, but he had not 438 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: come back from Mexico yet by June of nine, so 439 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: he could not have been physically involved at this stage 440 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: of things. There's also a letter written two points that 441 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: by one of his friends in eighteen thirty that suggests 442 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: that a woman from his hometown of Charleston was quite 443 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: missed to have been left out of the plant distribution. 444 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: I love this letter a lot. It is so snippy. Yes, 445 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: it reads, Mrs Herbemont of Charleston has been very vexed 446 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: with you when she learned by the papers that several 447 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: northern gardeners had received seeds and plants you had sent 448 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: them from that land of vegetable beauties, Mexico, and that 449 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: you had not in one instance, remembered her. I know 450 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: exactly this type of I was gonna say for anyone 451 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: who has never been around an older, assertive Southern woman, yes, 452 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: is like the prototype. So it does seem possible that 453 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: the points That never made a stop in South Carolina, 454 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: but was sent directly to Philadelphia. There's evidence that four 455 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: shipments of seeds and plants from Mexico were shipped by 456 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: points At to Philadelphia. We don't know for certain if 457 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: the plant that came to be known as the point 458 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: Setia was among them. He was sending a whole variety 459 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: of specimens over the course of his years there. In 460 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: some instances, France had visited him in Mexico and carried 461 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: seeds back to the US with them, and that also 462 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: could have been how the plants were imported. But we 463 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: do know that a nurseryman in Philadelphia named Robert Buists 464 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: or Whist, I'm not sure the pronunciation, becomes a key 465 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: figure in the rise of the point Seti's popularity outside 466 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: of Mexico. Buist, who was from Scotland, took a cutting 467 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: to Edinburgh, where he shared it with a colleague named 468 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: James McNabb. McNabb intern shared the plant with a botanist 469 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: in Berlin, Germany named Carl Bilder. Now you'll sometimes see 470 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: the points that he and noted as first being identified 471 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: in the eighteen thirties, and that appears to be linked 472 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: to Bilda now naming it Euphorbia pulcima. Another Scottish botanist, 473 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: Robert Graham, tried to change the name to point Setia 474 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: pulcrima in eighteen thirty six, and while point Setia stuck 475 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: as a common name, Euphorbia polkima remains the plant's official name. 476 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes there's another Man historian, William Hickling Prescott, who's credited 477 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: with honoring points set with the points that he in name, 478 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: but it did not appear in Prescott's writing until eighteen 479 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: forty three, and that was in the book The History 480 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: of the Conquest of Mexico. And today, the cultivation and 481 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: sale of point sets are a huge commercial industry. It 482 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: is considered one of the most valuable potted flowering plants. 483 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes you will see it listed as number one on 484 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: that list in in the U s alone, it was 485 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: s needed to have a wholesale value of one five 486 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: million dollars and the US only makes up about one 487 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: third of the market for this popular holiday bloom. The 488 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: other two thirds is primarily Europe. The largest grower of 489 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: points that he is in the world is the Paul 490 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: Ecky ranch in California, estimated to produce about fifty of 491 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: the plants sold globally each year and seventy of the 492 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: points is that are sold in the US. Points That's 493 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: legacy as points a Tismo persists, though, especially when it 494 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: comes to these plants, there is a belief still among 495 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: Mexican gardeners that points set ensured that as the Florida 496 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: noche Buena became a lucrative commodity, nobody from its native 497 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: country would actually profit from it. There's no evidence of 498 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: a patent being filed by points Set or on his behalf, 499 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: something that would not have even legally been possible for 500 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: plants until decades after his death, but there's a persistent 501 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: rumor that he purposely used the Hatton system to put 502 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: legal barriers in place to prevent Mexican nurseries from propagating 503 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: popular varieties of the point setia for sale. This is 504 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: almost certainly born from the fact that he was just 505 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: so deeply disliked in Mexico by the time he left. 506 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: Starting in the mid nineteenth century, point setia popularity sword 507 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: in the United States, establishing it as a standard part 508 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: of holiday decor today. There are actually more than one 509 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: hundred different points set of varieties, and they come in 510 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: a wide range of colors. White, pink, and red are 511 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: pretty commonly seen in most nurseries, but they can also 512 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: come in yellow, purple, salmon, and even variegated versions. In 513 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: the U S, December twelfth as National Points Set, a 514 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: day in honor of the anniversary of jewel points That's life. Coincidentally, 515 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: this is also the day of the Virgin of Guadalupe, 516 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: celebrated in Mexico, which is normally also marked with a 517 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: display of points setias. Yeah, so that is jewel points 518 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: set in his strange, strange legacy. But also, uh, you 519 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: know point set is which I love as a flower. Yeah, 520 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: be cautious having them in your house with lots of cats. 521 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that in the casual Friday 522 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: because some of their reputation as super poisonous might be 523 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: a little overblown. Yeah, but I think be careful with 524 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: all plants around animals because you just never know. That's 525 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: that's m hmm. I don't have living plants in my 526 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: house for the most part. Um. One of my cats 527 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: favorite thing to do now is to shred an African 528 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: violet every time she gets the opportunity. I also have 529 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: a little bit of listener mail completely unrelated to any 530 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: of this. Okay, this is from our listener Michelle, who 531 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: was writing about Maria on a Mozart and our our 532 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: discussion of her giving up her firstborn son. Sure it's high, 533 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy, thank you for your podcast. I love 534 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: it so much and it's kept me company since I 535 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: discovered it in when I broke my back in December 536 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: ofen I managed to listen to almost the entire archive 537 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: of episodes, which kept me saying while I was lying 538 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: in bed healing, Uh, what an honor to be able 539 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: to help. I'm so sorry that happened, and glad it 540 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: sounds like you are healed up. I just wanted to 541 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: drop you a line about your episode Maria on a Mozart. 542 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: During it, you mentioned that she gave her baby, Leopold 543 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: up to her father just after birth, and during the 544 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: behind the scenes about this, you spent a bit of 545 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: time discussing this and how it was quote super weird, 546 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: which is what I called it. I am from New 547 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: Zealand and here the Maori customary practice of I'm going 548 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: to guess on this pronunciation wongi is where a child 549 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: is raised by someone in their family who is not 550 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: their birth parents. Often the first child is given to 551 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: the grandparents or the brother or sister of a parent, 552 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: particularly if the brother or sister has no children of 553 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: their own. There are all sorts of reasons for this, 554 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: but one of them is strengthening when now extended family ties. 555 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: This was particularly done in the case of Kamatua. I'm 556 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: going to apologize again because I know I'm messing up 557 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: all of these words. Um, those mean elders. That's the 558 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: grandparents in this case taking in a grandchild to pass 559 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: down tribal tradition and knowledge. This is not the same 560 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: as fostering or adoption. As gan guy children are seen 561 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: as a valuable resource and a gift of love. The 562 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: entire well being of the group is enhanced by allowing 563 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: the child to be raised by who now who have 564 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: the resources to meet their needs, and the child is 565 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: raised provided knowledge of their birth parents and the entire 566 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: extended family is usually involved in their upbringing. In most cases, 567 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: the child is placed at birth, but sometimes when they're older, 568 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: and this can be for a short period of time 569 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: or their entire childhood. She says, I'm paraphrasing a bit 570 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: from this research paper which she linked to. When you 571 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: talked about Maria Anna giving young Leopold to her father 572 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: right after his birth, I immediately associated this with this practice. 573 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: I wondered whether Maria Anna had had the same goal 574 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: in mind as the practice of when Guy, where she 575 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: wanted to strengthen her bond to her father and the 576 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: next generation Leopold Jr. To the older Leopold. My guess 577 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: is that she knew her father would dote on the child, 578 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: and he had better resources in more time to devote 579 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: to the child, and she already had five chill you 580 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: not own to take care of. And then she sent 581 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: some other listening notes. But it's um, it's a cool story. 582 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: I like that she shared this with us because it 583 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: is like different cultures certainly have different, um different approaches 584 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: to this. I think are are like that super weird 585 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: is more like in most Anglo European cultures. At that time, 586 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: it was definitely considered odd enough that a lot of 587 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: people wrote about how strange the situation was. Yeah, it 588 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: reminds me a little bit of when we were talking 589 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: about um practice babies and yeah, and the focus on 590 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: like whether having so many different caregivers and a baby's 591 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: life was going to cause problems and how and a 592 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: lot of other cultures elsewhere in the world, and also 593 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: like within the United States among indigenous cultures, like having 594 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: a lot of different caregivers not anything that that's just 595 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: how it works. Um. So, yeah, I had sort of 596 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: the same thought when I read that email. But it's 597 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: also really cool and I didn't I didn't realize how 598 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: common that was, certainly in um in Maori culture. It's 599 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: a culture I don't know nearly enough about, even though 600 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: I find it fascinating. Um and the art that comes 601 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: out of it blows my mind in the most beautiful way. 602 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: So thank you. Thank you for writing us, Michelle. If 603 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us, you should absolutely 604 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: do that. You can do it at History Podcast at 605 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: I heart radio dot com. 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