WEBVTT - Freetown Christiania

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're going on over

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<v Speaker 2>to foggy Copenhagen town. Yeah, for this episode of Stuff

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<v Speaker 2>you should know.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, because we were talking about a little sort

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<v Speaker 1>of village neighborhood, anarchist commune in Copenhagen, Denmark called Freetown Christiania,

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<v Speaker 1>which was founded in nineteen seventy one, and it has

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty interesting story. Well, he continues to.

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<v Speaker 2>You had me an anarchist squatter commune. Yeah, so it is.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's something like eight hundred nine hundred residents there,

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<v Speaker 2>depending on who you ask. And they just basically showed up.

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<v Speaker 2>They set up shop in this former military base and

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<v Speaker 2>they said we're not leaving. This is a free, free territory.

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<v Speaker 2>And in fact, when you walk into Christiania, I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to say, Christiana is so bad.

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<v Speaker 1>I know me too.

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<v Speaker 2>That extra eye just throws me off. But it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>matter because I'm foreign to this. I'm foreign to the

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<v Speaker 2>people of Denmark, so I will say I will just

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<v Speaker 2>deal with it, right, that's right. At any rate. When

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<v Speaker 2>you walk into Christiania, there's a sign that says you

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<v Speaker 2>are now leaving the European Union.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty cool. So the backstory here is in the

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<v Speaker 1>seventeenth century, that's the sixteen hundreds, by the way, and

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<v Speaker 1>Copenhagen they built a big fortress and some ramparts there too,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, as protection obviously, because that's what ramparts are.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the eighteen thirties they built in our artillery

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<v Speaker 1>barracks there. They grew over the course of the nineteenth century,

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<v Speaker 1>but then in the nineteen hundreds Denmark was like, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, no one's gonna come after us. We're Denmark.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone pretty much likes this, so we don't need this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of presence here. And so in nineteen sixteen the

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<v Speaker 1>southern part of the base was closed and actually like

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<v Speaker 1>converted by the country into a park. Then in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty one parts of the ramparts on the northern end

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<v Speaker 1>were transferred to the public, and then about six years later,

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<v Speaker 1>between sixty seven and seventy one, they finally the military

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<v Speaker 1>got out of it all together, and there was a

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<v Speaker 1>completely abandoned military base there by nineteen seventy one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I mean and it's pretty decent size. Part

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<v Speaker 2>of it's a park, so it's alluring. It's in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of essentially downtown Copenhagen, so it's kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>attractive to people. You know, it's not out in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of nowhere. It's like, right there, let's do something

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<v Speaker 2>with it. And there is a neighborhood right next to

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<v Speaker 2>it called Christian Christian's Hoven Christians Haven if you anglicize it,

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<v Speaker 2>and they apparently the parents there kept tearing down the

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<v Speaker 2>security fences to allow their children to go in and

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<v Speaker 2>play in this abandoned military barracks.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I actually looked up the V in Denmark

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<v Speaker 1>and how you treated that thing?

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<v Speaker 2>Did I? Butcher?

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<v Speaker 1>It?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that how I went?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't know, because I bet you're probably right,

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<v Speaker 1>But what the internet said was that the V. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure someone can write in and let us know

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<v Speaker 1>that the V is pronounced like a V when it's

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<v Speaker 1>in the front of a word, but is treated as

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<v Speaker 1>a W when it's in the middle or rear of

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<v Speaker 1>a word.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so let me try this again.

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<v Speaker 1>Christian's holland maybe that's how they pronounced it. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm actually I'm genuinely curious because that's always thrown me.

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<v Speaker 2>Chris John's hollowin. That's what I'm going.

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<v Speaker 1>With, all right, that's what I'm going with too.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, anyway, it's a neighborhood and they tore down

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<v Speaker 2>the fence, and apparently the local authorities I think the

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<v Speaker 2>military at first, and then the government kept building the fence.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, this is to keep you out. Stop tearing

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<v Speaker 2>it down. And the parents in the neighborhood said never,

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<v Speaker 2>and they kept tearing it down. Finally, the government just

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<v Speaker 2>gave up and just left it to them to let

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<v Speaker 2>their children play.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it became a kid's playground. In October of

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy one, there's a guy named Jacob. Here's another bee.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna say, lugwigs and sure if the Internet is correct,

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<v Speaker 1>and he is the or was then the editor of

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<v Speaker 1>a Actually it turns out it's the most popular kind

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<v Speaker 1>of counterculture rag in Denmark called the hod Blad.

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<v Speaker 2>It means new leaf.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I saw it, the main paper.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, the main leaf. That's what I saw.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. I like new leaf too, because you can turn

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<v Speaker 1>those over and good things happen.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I thought.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was the editor of that thing. He needed

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<v Speaker 1>some you know, some content to put in there. One week,

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<v Speaker 1>and so he and some of his buddies went and

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<v Speaker 1>did you know, kind of a fun little hey, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to take over this old barracks. And so they

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<v Speaker 1>did an article. They took pictures of them, like having

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<v Speaker 1>picnics and having and waving around air rifles and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll have to remember this is just after the military

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<v Speaker 1>had left it, so it's very much like an anti

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<v Speaker 1>war sort of little fun piece they were doing. And

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<v Speaker 1>in the article he said civilians have taken over the

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<v Speaker 1>Forbidden City, except he said it in the language there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And he also in the article that he wrote

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<v Speaker 2>to accompany it, he said, hey, there's a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>different things we could do with this old military base.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a housing crisis right now. The prices of

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<v Speaker 2>apartments and rents and all that are really really high.

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<v Speaker 2>So young people are getting forced out of the city

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<v Speaker 2>or can't move to the city. Let's turn this into

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<v Speaker 2>affordable housing. And he said, and by affordable housing, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean just free, come build your house here. Let's turn

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<v Speaker 2>this into an anarchist compound. And they I think the

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<v Speaker 2>local Colorful community answered the call pretty much immediately.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, you put out a call for anarchist commune,

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<v Speaker 1>free rent, and doesn't matter where you are in the world,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to get some people knock out on your

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<v Speaker 1>door pretty quickly with their petuli and their hackey sacks.

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<v Speaker 1>And they were all in, certainly in Denmark. As far

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<v Speaker 1>as the name Christiania, there's a bunch of stories that

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<v Speaker 1>could have been named after the king who commissioned the barracks,

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe a twist on that neighborhood that you talked about,

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<v Speaker 1>the Christian showing, or maybe Oslo pre nineteen twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>So no one can quite pinpoint exactly why it was

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<v Speaker 1>named Christiania, but that is what it was so dubbed.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and that's what it's still dubbed today because it

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<v Speaker 2>is probably the most successful anarchist squat in history.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been around for seventy years or no, fifty years.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, buddy, I was born in seventy one.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry. Yeah, it's been around as long as Chuck and

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck's been around, so it's pretty impressive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's fifty five years old. Just to say it

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<v Speaker 1>like you said it was. I don't know if you

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<v Speaker 1>said it, but they had a pretty good start there

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, it was just abandoned by the military

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy one, so it's not like it was

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<v Speaker 1>falling apart or anything like that. It wasn't like fancy,

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<v Speaker 1>but the buildings were all pretty great, and they had

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<v Speaker 1>electricity and running water. And as they got going, it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't like, hey, let's get together and be a community.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just like, hey, you can come here and

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<v Speaker 1>do whatever you want. But one thing I love about

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<v Speaker 1>people is when you get enough people together for a

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<v Speaker 1>period of time, they don't like too much chaos, and

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<v Speaker 1>they all tend to come together. I feel like, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't always work out, but initially I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>they all seemed to come together and say like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get like organized a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It's very hobsy in yeah. And the point of

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<v Speaker 2>that is that this group that started out as an

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<v Speaker 2>anarchist commune and not even a commune, I guess, just

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of anarchist squatters, formed an anarchist commune. They

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<v Speaker 2>like you said, they came together. They started making rules

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<v Speaker 2>because even anarchists love rules.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>The first rule was no violence, which is a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>good first rule, and that was the only rule for

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<v Speaker 2>quite quite a long time actually, And the way that

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<v Speaker 2>these anarchist squatters who lived in Christiania enforced the rules

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<v Speaker 2>was through like social pressure, exclusion, shunning. They they policed themselves, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so if you if you did commit violentce, you would

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<v Speaker 2>be forced out of this neighborhood one way or another.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was essentially one of the first things they

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<v Speaker 2>came together to do was to kind of self police.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the second thing they came together to do

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<v Speaker 2>was to take care of the trash. Yeah, because there

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<v Speaker 2>are two things that people do in any situation, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when there are no rules. They'll fight and they'll generate

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<v Speaker 2>garbage and just leave it places.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they said, hey, you know, that was literally

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<v Speaker 1>like the first thing they did is they formed a team,

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<v Speaker 1>a garbage team to deal with the waste. Businesses started

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<v Speaker 1>to open up a little bit, and it didn't take long.

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<v Speaker 1>Within a few years kind of like by the mid seventies,

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<v Speaker 1>it was it's, you know, own little society in there.

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<v Speaker 1>They had communal bass that they built, they had cafes,

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<v Speaker 1>they had shop collectives, they had a Kindergarten. They had

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<v Speaker 1>a theater, a few theaters, I think, but the largest

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<v Speaker 1>is the Gray Hall, which is still there today. I

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<v Speaker 1>think I looked up the capacity. It looks like it.

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<v Speaker 1>See it's about fifteen hundred people.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 1>And they've had some like Bob Dylan played there. Metallica

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<v Speaker 1>and Rage Against the Machine both played there, so.

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<v Speaker 2>Did no effects Morrissey Prodigy. Did Morrissey show up though

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<v Speaker 2>probably not he was scheduled. Yeah, and I saw Steve

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<v Speaker 2>Ignorant from Crass played there too. Who's that? I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know that Crass, the punk band Crass, Yes you have.

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<v Speaker 1>I have never heard of them, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you listened to everything I say.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So Christiana was obviously I think they had

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<v Speaker 1>their their motto at Versus Black Sheep from all Classes Unite.

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<v Speaker 1>And they attracted a lot of artists, obviously early on

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<v Speaker 1>and still the place is kind of teeming with art

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<v Speaker 1>if you you can just look up pictures or you

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<v Speaker 1>can go on YouTube, and there are quite a few

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube videos of people just doing like a little walking

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<v Speaker 1>tour of Freetown, Christiania, and it's awesome. It looks like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's murals everywhere. They started hosting plays and

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<v Speaker 1>musicals at the Gray Hall over the years, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>just sort of a lovely place if you're into art,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, any kind of visual or musical art.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I said there were about eight hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and nine hundred residents. I saw about one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty of those are kids, and there are children who

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<v Speaker 2>are raised. Like you said, they've established kindergartens there. And

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<v Speaker 2>there's a guy named Lucas Forshammer. He's the lead singer

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<v Speaker 2>of a group, a band called Lucas Graham and they

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<v Speaker 2>sing in English. I think they're big ish from what

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<v Speaker 2>I saw, it's kind of pop country almost. He was

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<v Speaker 2>born and raised in Christiania, and I was reading a

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<v Speaker 2>Rolling Stone article with him, and it was really interesting

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<v Speaker 2>him because he seems very mellow and nice and open.

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<v Speaker 2>But one of his quotes was that he learned how

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<v Speaker 2>to mix a Molotov cocktail before he learned how to

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<v Speaker 2>mix a Long Island iced tea.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, which is interesting because they generally, I mean, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>talk about think when things got a little violent, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're a peaceful people.

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<v Speaker 2>They are, but they also, you know, the cops show

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<v Speaker 2>up whenever they want and this is like a group

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<v Speaker 2>of anarchist squatters and they don't really like police presences,

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<v Speaker 2>and yeah, yeah, so it's a there's this real undercurrent

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<v Speaker 2>under this whole story, because the there's a it's a

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<v Speaker 2>generally positive story, but you also can't forget we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about anarchists squatting in the middle of a modern city

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<v Speaker 2>and being pressured from outside and pushing back on that

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<v Speaker 2>pressure in ways that you know you can't forget.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. So I think we sort of teased

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a dark side. And why don't we

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.240
<v Speaker 1>take a break and we'll talk about another type of

0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:40.319
<v Speaker 1>person who moved to Christiania right after this. All right,

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.840
<v Speaker 1>So we mentioned that lots of like cool, free spirited

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.679
<v Speaker 1>artists moved to Christiania and put on plays and musicals

0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.920
<v Speaker 1>and painted walls and did all kinds of fun stuff

0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.160
<v Speaker 1>open shops and cafes. But also that became the what

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.560
<v Speaker 1>was known as the green Light District where even though

0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 1>marijuana was illegal and Denmark, they would sell drugs there,

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.720
<v Speaker 1>mainly pot, and it was called Pusher Street. They sold

0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.600
<v Speaker 1>the street where they sold the drugs was ended up

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.040
<v Speaker 1>being called Pusher Street. It was generally like I said,

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 1>selling weed and hash not the biggest deal. But anytime

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.560
<v Speaker 1>you have that kind of thing, you know somebody will

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.800
<v Speaker 1>come in wanting heroin or acid or you know, whatever

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 1>you name a drug, and harder drugs did kind of

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 1>come in and it got pretty out of hand and

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 1>they had a lot of problems with the cops and

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.199
<v Speaker 1>eventually gangs over the years.

0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah they did, because I mean, marijuana is not recreational.

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Marijuana was not and I think still is not legal

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>in Denmark. So this is like flagrant open selling of

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 2>hash in particular, and because this is a black market,

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 2>the people who are willing to kind of step up

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 2>and you know, offer those services or those products are

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 2>criminal elements. So those gangs in particular, the how are

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.319
<v Speaker 2>we going to say this, the BS Motorcycle Club.

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean everybody knows what that is. We don't

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.319
<v Speaker 1>cuss on this show, but that was one of their names.

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 2>And then the world famous Hell's Angels.

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.080
<v Speaker 1>I think you mean the h Double Hockey Stix Angel.

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>That's right, thank you. They those two gangs ended up

0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.960
<v Speaker 2>trying to take over Pusher Street and there was actually

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>a gang war from nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty six.

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Between those two gangs, and a lot of it played

0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 2>out on Pusher Street. Now, like you said, the people

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 2>who live there are pretty much peace loving, they're self governing,

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>they're just generally mellow people. And all of a sudden,

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>there's motorcycle gangs at a war in the middle of

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 2>your town. And I saw there was an article by

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>I think a guy in Vanity Fair of all places,

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 2>about this, and he said, if you want to imagine

0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Pusher Street, imagine a quaint, little small town with a

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.320
<v Speaker 2>strip mall going right through the middle, down main Street,

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 2>with forty liquor stores on it. Yeah, that's essentially what

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.920
<v Speaker 2>he said. This is like. So this just basically developed.

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 2>And remember, these people didn't like plan Pusher Street. It

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 2>just started to happen, and then it got out of hand,

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 2>certainly out of their hands because they're anarchists. They can't

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 2>call the cops because they don't believe in that kind

0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of stuff. They can't sick the government on these people.

0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>They don't believe in that kind of stuff. So they

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 2>had to do whatever they could to kind of try

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 2>to keep this element out as much as possible, and

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 2>they really had a hard time with it for decades.

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean one of the other rules that they

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.160
<v Speaker 1>eventually brought in was that you can't wear gang colors.

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 1>I think by two thousand and four, supposedly or reportedly,

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>up to twenty five percent of Christiania was reliant on

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>the drug economy. And that same Vanity Fair article said

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 1>that Pusher Street had the biggest hash market on the

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 1>planet and said it basically had forty different stalls selling

0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 1>forty different brands of hashish, and the cops in twenty

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 1>sixteen estimate that the drug trade had put on Pusher

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Street was worth about one hundred million American dollars a

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>year or one billion kroner. So it was like that

0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 1>way for decades and decades. There was violence that was

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 1>at least one killing. I think the cops in nineteen

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 1>eighty seven found a dismembered body under the floor of

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.840
<v Speaker 1>one of the gang's hangouts, and there was just a

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of push and pull over the years with the

0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 1>police trying to rid that scene from there, and certainly

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the people, you know, like most of the people on

0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the inside wanting it gone.

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, there were like there were I think

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 2>the the Hell's Angels eventually overpowered the BS motorcycle club

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 2>to the point where they folded because they kept carrying

0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 2>out broad daylight hits on the BS motorcycle club's leaders,

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 2>and one of those took place at Christiania. As recently

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 2>as twenty twenty three, there was a fatal stabbing, fatal shootings.

0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two there was

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 2>a shooting that injured three people, one of whom was

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.080
<v Speaker 2>a cop. So you can imagine, like if there's certain

0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:16.720
<v Speaker 2>liberal vanguards of Danish society there, like let them live,

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.400
<v Speaker 2>let them stay. This is an experience, a social experiment.

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>The cops in Copenhagen hate Christiania and are just I

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 2>get the impression, pull their hair out over the idea

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.160
<v Speaker 2>that this is just allowed to continue, especially when cops

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>start getting shot and other people get murdered in broad

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 2>daylight in this place.

0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. I mean they had in nineteen ninety two,

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.119
<v Speaker 1>like an eighteen month campaign to get all the drugs

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.239
<v Speaker 1>out of there that didn't work. At one point they

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.240
<v Speaker 1>were patrolling twenty four to seven. There's in two thousand

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and four they had built the cops had built a

0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Pusher Street replica at their training facility. So they could

0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 1>literally train for like exactly how to handle that area.

0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 1>And there was a song even the district Police department

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.600
<v Speaker 1>wrote a song about the dealers that had the line

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.160
<v Speaker 1>clear out Christiania, take the s down. They will never

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.280
<v Speaker 1>never smoke a joint again. That's what happens when cops

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:12.919
<v Speaker 1>write songs, by the.

0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Way, right. And they also in twenty twenty two alone,

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 2>they raided Pusher Street one hundred times. Yeah, and they

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.679
<v Speaker 2>kept bouncing back. It kept bouncing back. I saw that

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 2>even though they didn't call the police. This was somebody

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.360
<v Speaker 2>who was explaining it on Quora. I'm not quite sure

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:38.879
<v Speaker 2>what there their bona fides are, Yeah, so take this

0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.359
<v Speaker 2>with a grain of salt, but they seem to not

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.199
<v Speaker 2>be quite sensationalists. They said that at one point, the

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.119
<v Speaker 2>residents of Christiania essentially baited a police rate is how

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 2>they put it. They I'm not quite sure, but they

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.919
<v Speaker 2>did something that they knew would attract the police. They

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 2>knew it was coming, and so they warned everybody who

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 2>lived in Christiania about it. And they didn't warn any

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of the dealers on Pusher Street to base use the

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.280
<v Speaker 2>cops to get these guys out of Pusher Street. So

0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.199
<v Speaker 2>that's I guess one tactic you could possibly use if

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.800
<v Speaker 2>you're not willing to call the cops. But they they

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 2>also themselves would go disassemble these stalls. They would as

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.919
<v Speaker 2>a group stand up to the Hell's Angels in the

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 2>BS Motorcycle Club and push them out. But even if

0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.120
<v Speaker 2>the cops are doing it, if the residents of Christiania

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 2>were doing it, it did not matter. For decades, they

0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.720
<v Speaker 2>would come back and they would sell hash and make

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 2>money and essentially intimidate the people who live there.

0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 1>That's right, And they even said, never mind, that's a

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:36.960
<v Speaker 1>terrible joke. I'm not even going to say it. But

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.920
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty four, they finally, finally, it was just

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.199
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years ago, dug up Pusher Street. They

0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.480
<v Speaker 1>literally dug up and got rid of that street all

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 1>together and got everyone out of there, and they, I

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.639
<v Speaker 1>think cobin Hagen announced plans to build a pub some

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 1>public housing on where Pusher Street used to be, so

0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's like local crafts and stuff being sold

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.240
<v Speaker 1>on Push Now. It remains to be seen if the

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.040
<v Speaker 1>drug trade is going to come back, but hopefully that

0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 1>did the trick and it's out of there.

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.520
<v Speaker 2>And one of the other things I saw. Actually two

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:14.160
<v Speaker 2>other things that Christiani a residence did over the years

0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:18.080
<v Speaker 2>to keep drugs out as best they could. The first one,

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:23.639
<v Speaker 2>I think came in the late seventies when heroin started

0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:25.879
<v Speaker 2>to make a real apparance, and they were like, you

0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.520
<v Speaker 2>know what, we don't want heroin here. We don't want

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.400
<v Speaker 2>hard drugs. You want to drink, you want to smoke hash,

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.919
<v Speaker 2>you want to smoke pot, whatever, that's fine, but we

0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 2>as a group are going to say we don't want

0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.240
<v Speaker 2>heroin here. So they essentially forced out the heroin dealers

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.880
<v Speaker 2>and they said, you heroin addicts, if you want to stay, stay,

0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.439
<v Speaker 2>but you have to quit heroin. You have to go

0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 2>into treatment. Yeah, and get this. They said, we're going

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 2>to test your urine randomly to make sure that you're

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:55.879
<v Speaker 2>staying clean, and if you're not, we're going to force

0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.760
<v Speaker 2>you out. And I was like, I looked into how

0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.400
<v Speaker 2>they did. Then apparently there was a resident who could

0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>detect heroin and your urine with just one tiny sip

0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.399
<v Speaker 2>at any rate. They really did drug test people. That

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>was the first time they did it. The second time

0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.119
<v Speaker 2>they appealed to the public and they said help save Christiania.

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Buy your hash somewhere else. So they were actually actively

0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.960
<v Speaker 2>trying to keep people from buying hash in Christiania, which

0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 2>apparently it's supposedly not actually cool to do, but it's

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>such a tourist spot, and tourists just will go buy

0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:34.960
<v Speaker 2>hash whenever they can out in broad daylight. That it's

0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 2>it was just thriving for decades.

0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:38.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I think they said they get it

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.239
<v Speaker 1>in the like peak vacation summertime. They get like as

0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 1>many as ten thousand people touristing that area every day

0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 1>for sure, so it's very busy area. But it seems

0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.760
<v Speaker 1>like they've eradicated the drugs at least for now. So

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.359
<v Speaker 1>their relationship with the government over the years is that

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 1>has sort of been up and down, and we'll talk

0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 1>about all that right after this.

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.080
<v Speaker 2>So, Chuck, you were saying that the government has had

0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a love hate or lenient not so lenient relationship with

0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Christiania over the years, right, that's right.

0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 1>How well, I mean, you know, they came in and

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 1>took over a military base. They were building fences and

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 1>they were getting torn down and sort of like, yeah,

0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.800
<v Speaker 1>you can have a playground, and then okay, you can

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.040
<v Speaker 1>live there, and you know, I think as it started

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 1>to build there was just some raised eyebrows, but they

0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.160
<v Speaker 1>weren't causing a lot of trouble, so they let them go.

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.000
<v Speaker 1>And by nineteen seventy two, the govern it's official stance

0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 1>was like, all right, this is a social experiment and

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:03.879
<v Speaker 1>let's see how it goes.

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, so you think, oh, that's great, they're going to

0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 2>leave us alone. Nope, the next year the government was saying, like,

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 2>we're not sure about this social experiment experiment thing. Everybody

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.720
<v Speaker 2>needs to leave by April first, nineteen seventy six. And

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:21.240
<v Speaker 2>the people of Christiania did not take that sitting down.

0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:26.280
<v Speaker 2>They sued the Danish government. They protested the court's rule

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:31.679
<v Speaker 2>against Christiania over and over again. But the despite you know,

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.280
<v Speaker 2>legally being able to go in and clear everybody out,

0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 2>the Danish government just would never go that far. They

0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 2>threatened to, they came up with plans, they came up

0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.040
<v Speaker 2>with compromises, but they never went so far as to

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:43.840
<v Speaker 2>just go in and remove everybody.

0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean they've they've threatened eviction and like had

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:53.359
<v Speaker 1>official eviction decrees and then revoked. But yeah, like you said,

0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.120
<v Speaker 1>they I think it would be. It was so well

0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.200
<v Speaker 1>known by that point, it would be a really bad

0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:01.359
<v Speaker 1>look for the government to go in and you know,

0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:05.360
<v Speaker 1>rip like literal families out of there that were basically

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:07.159
<v Speaker 1>doing pretty good. I mean, from what I saw, the

0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:10.960
<v Speaker 1>only kind of downside was the hash trade that went

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:12.840
<v Speaker 1>on there for so long, and that was just in

0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:14.560
<v Speaker 1>one localized area.

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:16.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that seems to be how the government and

0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 2>the police in particular really kept the heat on the

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 2>residents of Christiania that, like you said, that seemed to

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.080
<v Speaker 2>be the only real problem with it. I've seen. If

0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.840
<v Speaker 2>you remove that whole drug trade, the crime in Christiania

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 2>is very very low, so regardless because nobody could get

0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 2>a handle on the drug trade. In nineteen eighty nine,

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.680
<v Speaker 2>the government actually passed what they called the Christiania Act.

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I said, you guys can stay, but you're going to

0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 2>have to work with us a little more. Pub owners

0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 2>are going to have to start getting liquor licenses. We're

0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 2>gonna need to certify your kindergarten teachers stuff like that. Right, Like,

0:24:55.560 --> 0:25:00.199
<v Speaker 2>there had to be some sort of governmental intervention. Their

0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:04.520
<v Speaker 2>kids have to actually go to government schools. Outside of Christiania.

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 2>There's just more involvement that the government insisted on.

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a couple of years before that, in nineteen eighty seven,

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 1>they said, all right, the new plan is you can

0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 1>stay here, but we're going to divide up this area

0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:23.080
<v Speaker 1>and the neighborhood is going to be rezoned into two areas.

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 1>The military ramparts where a lot of your homes are

0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:29.480
<v Speaker 1>is going to be a conservation zone and you're going

0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:31.600
<v Speaker 1>to have to move out eventually. And then the second

0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.520
<v Speaker 1>area is what we're going to call the urban zone,

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:36.919
<v Speaker 1>and you can basically stay there. And then in a

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:39.119
<v Speaker 1>couple of years they announced all the plans just to

0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.160
<v Speaker 1>make things a little more official.

0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, And it's sae that way for a couple decades,

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:45.879
<v Speaker 2>and then two thousand and one the government's like, just

0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:48.840
<v Speaker 2>forget that, forget it again. We're going to evict you guys.

0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>So finally in twenty eleven, the government in Denmark said

0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.639
<v Speaker 1>all right, you guys can keep doing your thing, but

0:25:57.680 --> 0:25:59.680
<v Speaker 1>you got to buy this land, like we got to

0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>get some then out of it. And that was a

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:07.920
<v Speaker 1>tough nut to crack for the residents there because first

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of all, like they didn't have that kind of dough

0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:12.919
<v Speaker 1>and second of all, that was like not what they

0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:16.959
<v Speaker 1>were all about, Like, individual property ownership wasn't their jam,

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:19.119
<v Speaker 1>and so a lot of them were turned off by

0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:21.680
<v Speaker 1>the whole idea of kind of owning that. But then

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 1>I think they saw the writing on the wall, which

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:25.160
<v Speaker 1>is like, well, this is what allow us to stay

0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:29.239
<v Speaker 1>at least, So they raised the money. They didn't, you know,

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:31.640
<v Speaker 1>go out and buy individual parcels of land. They set

0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 1>up a foundation that would cover all of the land

0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:37.160
<v Speaker 1>that they needed, and they raised the dough. They raised

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:39.640
<v Speaker 1>twelve and a half million kroner and that was enough

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:41.400
<v Speaker 1>to buy about a quarter of that land and then

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:42.679
<v Speaker 1>pay rent for the rest of it.

0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I get this. They also took out bank loans,

0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>which can't you see them like showing up with like

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.320
<v Speaker 2>their hair kind of parted and in like styled as

0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>best as they can, but they're still wearing like their

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 2>leather vest with the anarchy symbol painted on the back. Totally.

0:26:57.600 --> 0:26:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's the movie version.

0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, So the way that they got around that

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:07.479
<v Speaker 2>private ownership thing was they pulled everything together and they

0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:13.880
<v Speaker 2>bought it collectively. So Christiania itself owns the land that

0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.320
<v Speaker 2>these people live on. The people pay rent to the community.

0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:21.679
<v Speaker 2>They also pay essentially an hoa fee of something like

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and seventy six kroner I think are dollars

0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:25.920
<v Speaker 2>worth a.

0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Month thirteen hundred and fifty kroner. Well, see, that's the

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.639
<v Speaker 1>trade off is the rent is about four dollars and

0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:37.640
<v Speaker 1>sixty seven cents a month American, right, but the maintenance

0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:39.840
<v Speaker 1>fees are one hundred and ninety six a month. So

0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:42.760
<v Speaker 1>they're basically saying like, hey, you can live here for

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 1>almost nothing, but it still costs money to run this place,

0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 1>and you're all going to pitch.

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.920
<v Speaker 2>In for that exactly right. So that's actually a pretty

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:52.960
<v Speaker 2>good work around. If you're an anarchistic you need to

0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>make a deal with the capitalist devil. That's about the

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:58.920
<v Speaker 2>best you can hope for. So the government was like, well,

0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:01.639
<v Speaker 2>it's your land now, Okay, we can't do anything, but

0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:04.000
<v Speaker 2>that's about a quarter of the land. There's still a

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:05.719
<v Speaker 2>bunch of land left. And if you don't buy this,

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:10.080
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna build public housing. That seems to be the threat. Ironically, Yeah,

0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:14.240
<v Speaker 2>the government now uses over Christiania is we're going to

0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 2>build housing that is open to the public and you're

0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 2>not going to have any say about who moves in,

0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:25.280
<v Speaker 2>because over the years, in another great stroke of irony,

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:30.440
<v Speaker 2>the people of Christiania have gotten extremely selective of who

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:31.080
<v Speaker 2>moves in.

0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, you have to do an interview now

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 1>to move in. It used to be like they would

0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.920
<v Speaker 1>just accept anybody. But you know, they got more organized.

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 1>I think there are fourteen different neighborhood groups there now,

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 1>and you know, there's a lot of I think it

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 1>just got a little more complicated as time went on,

0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:52.720
<v Speaker 1>like there has to be consensus for changing even very

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:55.200
<v Speaker 1>minor things like changing out the windows of a building.

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 1>I think the New York Times did an article on

0:28:57.640 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>it that said it was like an out of control

0:28:59.720 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>cond association. And you know, like I said, you have

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 1>to go through an interview process just to live there now.

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 1>So I think sort of the idyllic days have come

0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:14.000
<v Speaker 1>and gone. But from what I've read about just contemporary

0:29:14.160 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 1>articles now, it seems to still be kind of a

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:18.520
<v Speaker 1>great thing for people who live there.

0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. Like there's a sewer system, like we said,

0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>garbage collection has been there a long time. They have

0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 2>recycling centers, they have the Gray Hall, there's cafes, beast shows,

0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 2>there's just a lot there's like a it's a city.

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:36.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like a little city that was self built and

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:42.720
<v Speaker 2>also self governed. They also Chuck have their own currency,

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:47.440
<v Speaker 2>the lune with a slash through it, the metal o

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and which means the wage. It's apparently equal to about

0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>fifty Danish kroner and it's a minted coin made of copper.

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:00.720
<v Speaker 2>I could not find where they have it minted, but

0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:06.240
<v Speaker 2>they have minted currency in Christiania. There's a pot leaf

0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 2>and a snail on one side.

0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Nice.

0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:11.440
<v Speaker 2>On the other side it says free town of Christiania

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.240
<v Speaker 2>and live and let others live.

0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's pretty nice.

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:18.480
<v Speaker 2>But they have minted coins.

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 1>How you just you can get a coin minted?

0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I can't. I have no idea where to go get

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 2>a coin minted, and I don't even know how to

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:28.640
<v Speaker 2>begin to find out.

0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:31.640
<v Speaker 1>We could get a coin minted. There's like podcasts and

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:33.600
<v Speaker 1>people do like challenge coins and stuff all the time,

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:35.600
<v Speaker 1>so it's a service you can have.

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, are my eyes open now?

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:40.760
<v Speaker 1>You've never gotten a challenge coin from someone or I

0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 1>don't even know.

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:42.080
<v Speaker 2>What that means.

0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's like not even I think there are other

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 1>names for them too. But you can get like a

0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.960
<v Speaker 1>coin made like Ben and Adam, I think for greatest

0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:53.320
<v Speaker 1>generation had coins made.

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, it didn't give me one.

0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:58.320
<v Speaker 1>You could give them to people. My brother in law

0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 1>and the Marines, they got a coin minted for his

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:04.800
<v Speaker 1>I was about to say graduation, his retirement, and so

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:05.960
<v Speaker 1>he gave me one of those coins.

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 2>So it's a thing that's awesome. Will you give me

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:10.360
<v Speaker 2>a coin? Sure?

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I'll just hop on over to coins r us and

0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:16.280
<v Speaker 1>input my what do you want to have? Momo on

0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 1>one side and you me on the other? Perfect and

0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe like a like a palm tree and a Georgia beach.

0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Can you put them both in profile and make them

0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:26.280
<v Speaker 2>look like queens?

0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Well they already do. Okay, great, should be too hard.

0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 2>That's a great coin, man, Thank you. Let's see what else.

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh I talked about how there are only a couple

0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:37.960
<v Speaker 2>of rules to start in the first one was violence.

0:31:38.480 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 2>The second one was no hard drugs. As the gang's

0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:45.400
<v Speaker 2>got more became more and more of a problem, you

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:50.920
<v Speaker 2>couldn't wear gang colors. Yeah, no stealing, no bulletproof vest.

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:52.600
<v Speaker 2>That's actually a pretty grim rule.

0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you get shot, you're gonna die, exactly.

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Take it like a man. And guns and knives. That

0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 2>was all part of one rule and no running, No running,

0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:02.640
<v Speaker 2>that's right.

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Why they said that running causes chaos or panic or something.

0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, yeah, And they were saying that that usually

0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:14.160
<v Speaker 2>indicates that it's a police raid, and so other people

0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 2>are going to start running too, So don't run, just walk.

0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, lifeguard rules exactly.

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:23.760
<v Speaker 2>So the current state of Christiani is exactly the same.

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:27.440
<v Speaker 2>They managed to get Pusher Street closed down, or at

0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:30.360
<v Speaker 2>least they got the pushers out of Pusher Street. That

0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:34.520
<v Speaker 2>public housing is still on the offing. I think it's

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 2>supposed to start in twenty twenty nine, and the neighborhood's

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.840
<v Speaker 2>very divided about it. Some people are like, no, we

0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:43.000
<v Speaker 2>want to know who's moving in here. We want to

0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:46.640
<v Speaker 2>vet who moves in here. Yeah, and we don't want,

0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, three hundred public houses built in the middle.

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I think they were going to build it in the middle,

0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 2>like right down Pusher Street to kind of make it

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 2>so Pusher Street never comes back. The other faction, I guess,

0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:01.200
<v Speaker 2>is like, no, this is actually great because we need

0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:04.600
<v Speaker 2>affordable housing. Copenhangen is very very expensive still, so this

0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:07.040
<v Speaker 2>is going to bring like younger people and artists and

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.680
<v Speaker 2>allow people to kind of move in and we need

0:33:10.680 --> 0:33:11.240
<v Speaker 2>that kind of.

0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:13.480
<v Speaker 1>New blood too, Yeah, for sure.

0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:19.000
<v Speaker 2>So I talked about different factions. Right, There's this author

0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:20.920
<v Speaker 2>who I think back in nineteen eighty one, he was

0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 2>a Christiania resident but also a scholar, and he wrote

0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:28.800
<v Speaker 2>a book Burgs Madsen is how I'm going to say

0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:35.400
<v Speaker 2>his name, and he essentially divided the population of Christiania

0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:41.680
<v Speaker 2>into three socioeconomic or essentially three cultural strata. One was

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:44.720
<v Speaker 2>the top were the activists, who he calls the holy ones.

0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:50.040
<v Speaker 2>The bottom stratum was the he called them trash, and

0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 2>then the middle stratum was the liberalists. And he essentially

0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:59.480
<v Speaker 2>said that the liberalists came from the middle class outside

0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:02.920
<v Speaker 2>of christian moved to Christiania. And I get the impression

0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:07.200
<v Speaker 2>where like the least radical, the least anarchistic, and he

0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:10.040
<v Speaker 2>essentially asserts all the way back in nineteen eighty one,

0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:14.800
<v Speaker 2>he points to the liberalists as the ones who led

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to this kind of normalizing, compromising of Christiania that makes

0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 2>it a little less radical than it originally was.

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 1>I thought you were going to say hash users, hash makers,

0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:32.000
<v Speaker 1>hash dealers, than hash haters.

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.160
<v Speaker 2>And the hash itself it has rights in Christiania.

0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's right. That's a group into itself.

0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:43.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's the future of Christiania. You got anything else, I.

0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Got nothing else. It's on my list to visit if

0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:47.040
<v Speaker 1>I ever get over that way.

0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh. I can't wait to go to Copenhagen someday. I

0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:52.120
<v Speaker 2>want to just go to all of Scandinavia.

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:58.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Oslo, Oslo, Stockholm. Everything I've heard is just great.

0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:01.520
<v Speaker 1>It's just like if like nice people to just riding

0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:02.960
<v Speaker 1>their bikes everywhere, then it's for you.

0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. I think monical magazine called Copenhagen the

0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 2>World's most livable city.

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Nice.

0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:15.160
<v Speaker 2>All right, we'll go there someday, Chuck. All right, and

0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I need to go figure out some other Scandinavian cities

0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:20.520
<v Speaker 2>to visit too, so I can rattle them off. That's right,

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Chuck said, that's right. So it's time for listener mail.

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:29.399
<v Speaker 1>This is from Troy. Hey, guys, been enjoying the show

0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:31.360
<v Speaker 1>for a few years, and I saw the Camp David

0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:33.279
<v Speaker 1>episode and I had to listen right away because my

0:35:33.360 --> 0:35:35.880
<v Speaker 1>dad was a captain in the Marines and stationed at

0:35:35.920 --> 0:35:38.439
<v Speaker 1>Camp David from nineteen seventy one to nineteen seventy three.

0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:41.600
<v Speaker 1>We lived down the hill from the camp in military housing,

0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and when the President Nixon at the time was not there,

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:47.480
<v Speaker 1>we were generally able to use the facilities on the camp.

0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Everyone that was allowed on the camp or in the

0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:55.040
<v Speaker 1>camp had their profile with picture in the guard post

0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.040
<v Speaker 1>and you could drive right up to the gate. At

0:35:57.080 --> 0:35:59.000
<v Speaker 1>the time, I was fied to seven years old and

0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 1>actually learned to swim in that figure eight pool. There's

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:04.359
<v Speaker 1>a picture out there of Gerald Ford and his dog

0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 1>by the pool at the exact spot I remember just

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.120
<v Speaker 1>going for it and jumping in. My dad passed away

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:12.440
<v Speaker 1>in twenty nineteen, and while going through his stuff I

0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:16.040
<v Speaker 1>found his short autobiography. I was really surprised at how

0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:18.239
<v Speaker 1>candidly he described some of this, because he never really

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:20.880
<v Speaker 1>talked about it that much. Below is an excerpt of

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:24.440
<v Speaker 1>his memories there, and he included a really nice page

0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:27.560
<v Speaker 1>from his dad that I read and it was awesome.

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I still have some memorabilia from the time there as well,

0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:35.120
<v Speaker 1>including Camp David playing cards and a Russian clock given

0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:37.360
<v Speaker 1>by some dignitaries that visited.

0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Awesome.

0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Keep up the great work, and that is from Troy Buscher.

0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, thanks a lot, Troy. That's a great story. And

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:46.279
<v Speaker 2>if you want to be like Troy and tell us

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:48.719
<v Speaker 2>a personal story, especially a sweet one about your dad

0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:51.480
<v Speaker 2>that has to do with one of our episodes we

0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:53.920
<v Speaker 2>want to hear from you, send it off to Stuff

0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 2>podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:02.239
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know a production of iHeartRadio. For more

0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:06.400
<v Speaker 1>podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:08.200
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