1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're going on over 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: to foggy Copenhagen town. Yeah, for this episode of Stuff 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 2: you should know. 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: That's right, because we were talking about a little sort 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: of village neighborhood, anarchist commune in Copenhagen, Denmark called Freetown Christiania, 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 1: which was founded in nineteen seventy one, and it has 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting story. Well, he continues to. 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: You had me an anarchist squatter commune. Yeah, so it is. 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: I think there's something like eight hundred nine hundred residents there, 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: depending on who you ask. And they just basically showed up. 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: They set up shop in this former military base and 14 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: they said we're not leaving. This is a free, free territory. 15 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: And in fact, when you walk into Christiania, I just 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: want to say, Christiana is so bad. 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: I know me too. 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: That extra eye just throws me off. But it doesn't 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: matter because I'm foreign to this. I'm foreign to the 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: people of Denmark, so I will say I will just 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: deal with it, right, that's right. At any rate. When 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: you walk into Christiania, there's a sign that says you 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: are now leaving the European Union. 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty cool. So the backstory here is in the 25 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: seventeenth century, that's the sixteen hundreds, by the way, and 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: Copenhagen they built a big fortress and some ramparts there too, 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, as protection obviously, because that's what ramparts are. 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: And in the eighteen thirties they built in our artillery 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: barracks there. They grew over the course of the nineteenth century, 30 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: but then in the nineteen hundreds Denmark was like, you 31 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: know what, no one's gonna come after us. We're Denmark. 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: Everyone pretty much likes this, so we don't need this 33 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: kind of presence here. And so in nineteen sixteen the 34 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: southern part of the base was closed and actually like 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: converted by the country into a park. Then in nineteen 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: sixty one parts of the ramparts on the northern end 37 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: were transferred to the public, and then about six years later, 38 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: between sixty seven and seventy one, they finally the military 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: got out of it all together, and there was a 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: completely abandoned military base there by nineteen seventy one. 41 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean and it's pretty decent size. Part 42 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: of it's a park, so it's alluring. It's in the 43 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: middle of essentially downtown Copenhagen, so it's kind of like 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: attractive to people. You know, it's not out in the 45 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: middle of nowhere. It's like, right there, let's do something 46 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: with it. And there is a neighborhood right next to 47 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 2: it called Christian Christian's Hoven Christians Haven if you anglicize it, 48 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: and they apparently the parents there kept tearing down the 49 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: security fences to allow their children to go in and 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: play in this abandoned military barracks. 51 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: You know, I actually looked up the V in Denmark 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: and how you treated that thing? 53 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: Did I? Butcher? 54 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: It? 55 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: Is that how I went? 56 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, because I bet you're probably right, 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: But what the internet said was that the V. And 58 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure someone can write in and let us know 59 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: that the V is pronounced like a V when it's 60 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: in the front of a word, but is treated as 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: a W when it's in the middle or rear of 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: a word. 63 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: Okay, so let me try this again. 64 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: Christian's holland maybe that's how they pronounced it. I don't know. 65 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm genuinely curious because that's always thrown me. 66 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: Chris John's hollowin. That's what I'm going. 67 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: With, all right, that's what I'm going with too. 68 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, anyway, it's a neighborhood and they tore down 69 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: the fence, and apparently the local authorities I think the 70 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: military at first, and then the government kept building the fence. 71 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: They're like, this is to keep you out. Stop tearing 72 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: it down. And the parents in the neighborhood said never, 73 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: and they kept tearing it down. Finally, the government just 74 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: gave up and just left it to them to let 75 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: their children play. 76 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it became a kid's playground. In October of 77 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, there's a guy named Jacob. Here's another bee. 78 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, lugwigs and sure if the Internet is correct, 79 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: and he is the or was then the editor of 80 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: a Actually it turns out it's the most popular kind 81 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: of counterculture rag in Denmark called the hod Blad. 82 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:31,559 Speaker 2: It means new leaf. 83 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: Oh I saw it, the main paper. 84 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: Oh, the main leaf. That's what I saw. 85 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: Okay. I like new leaf too, because you can turn 86 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: those over and good things happen. 87 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: That's what I thought. 88 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: So he was the editor of that thing. He needed 89 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: some you know, some content to put in there. One week, 90 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: and so he and some of his buddies went and 91 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: did you know, kind of a fun little hey, we're 92 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: going to take over this old barracks. And so they 93 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: did an article. They took pictures of them, like having 94 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: picnics and having and waving around air rifles and you know, 95 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: you'll have to remember this is just after the military 96 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: had left it, so it's very much like an anti 97 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: war sort of little fun piece they were doing. And 98 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: in the article he said civilians have taken over the 99 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: Forbidden City, except he said it in the language there. 100 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. And he also in the article that he wrote 101 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: to accompany it, he said, hey, there's a bunch of 102 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: different things we could do with this old military base. 103 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 2: But there's a housing crisis right now. The prices of 104 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: apartments and rents and all that are really really high. 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 2: So young people are getting forced out of the city 106 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: or can't move to the city. Let's turn this into 107 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: affordable housing. And he said, and by affordable housing, I 108 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: mean just free, come build your house here. Let's turn 109 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: this into an anarchist compound. And they I think the 110 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: local Colorful community answered the call pretty much immediately. 111 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you put out a call for anarchist commune, 112 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: free rent, and doesn't matter where you are in the world, 113 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: you're going to get some people knock out on your 114 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: door pretty quickly with their petuli and their hackey sacks. 115 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: And they were all in, certainly in Denmark. As far 116 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: as the name Christiania, there's a bunch of stories that 117 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: could have been named after the king who commissioned the barracks, 118 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: or maybe a twist on that neighborhood that you talked about, 119 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: the Christian showing, or maybe Oslo pre nineteen twenty five. 120 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: So no one can quite pinpoint exactly why it was 121 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: named Christiania, but that is what it was so dubbed. 122 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 2: Right, and that's what it's still dubbed today because it 123 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: is probably the most successful anarchist squat in history. 124 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 125 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,559 Speaker 2: It's been around for seventy years or no, fifty years. 126 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: Hey, buddy, I was born in seventy one. 127 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: Sorry. Yeah, it's been around as long as Chuck and 128 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: Chuck's been around, so it's pretty impressive. 129 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fifty five years old. Just to say it 130 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: like you said it was. I don't know if you 131 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: said it, but they had a pretty good start there 132 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: because you know, it was just abandoned by the military 133 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, so it's not like it was 134 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: falling apart or anything like that. It wasn't like fancy, 135 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: but the buildings were all pretty great, and they had 136 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: electricity and running water. And as they got going, it 137 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: wasn't like, hey, let's get together and be a community. 138 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: It was just like, hey, you can come here and 139 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. But one thing I love about 140 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: people is when you get enough people together for a 141 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: period of time, they don't like too much chaos, and 142 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: they all tend to come together. I feel like, maybe 143 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't always work out, but initially I feel like 144 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: they all seemed to come together and say like, hey, 145 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: let's get like organized a little bit. 146 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's very hobsy in yeah. And the point of 147 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: that is that this group that started out as an 148 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: anarchist commune and not even a commune, I guess, just 149 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: a bunch of anarchist squatters, formed an anarchist commune. They 150 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: like you said, they came together. They started making rules 151 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: because even anarchists love rules. 152 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: Sure. 153 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: The first rule was no violence, which is a pretty 154 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: good first rule, and that was the only rule for 155 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 2: quite quite a long time actually, And the way that 156 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: these anarchist squatters who lived in Christiania enforced the rules 157 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: was through like social pressure, exclusion, shunning. They they policed themselves, right, 158 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: so if you if you did commit violentce, you would 159 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: be forced out of this neighborhood one way or another. 160 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: And that was essentially one of the first things they 161 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: came together to do was to kind of self police. 162 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: And then the second thing they came together to do 163 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: was to take care of the trash. Yeah, because there 164 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: are two things that people do in any situation, especially 165 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: when there are no rules. They'll fight and they'll generate 166 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: garbage and just leave it places. 167 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they said, hey, you know, that was literally 168 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: like the first thing they did is they formed a team, 169 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: a garbage team to deal with the waste. Businesses started 170 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: to open up a little bit, and it didn't take long. 171 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: Within a few years kind of like by the mid seventies, 172 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: it was it's, you know, own little society in there. 173 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: They had communal bass that they built, they had cafes, 174 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: they had shop collectives, they had a Kindergarten. They had 175 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: a theater, a few theaters, I think, but the largest 176 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: is the Gray Hall, which is still there today. I 177 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: think I looked up the capacity. It looks like it. 178 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: See it's about fifteen hundred people. 179 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 180 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: And they've had some like Bob Dylan played there. Metallica 181 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: and Rage Against the Machine both played there, so. 182 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: Did no effects Morrissey Prodigy. Did Morrissey show up though 183 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: probably not he was scheduled. Yeah, and I saw Steve 184 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: Ignorant from Crass played there too. Who's that? I don't 185 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: know that Crass, the punk band Crass, Yes you have. 186 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: I have never heard of them, and. 187 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 2: I know you listened to everything I say. 188 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: All right, So Christiana was obviously I think they had 189 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: their their motto at Versus Black Sheep from all Classes Unite. 190 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: And they attracted a lot of artists, obviously early on 191 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: and still the place is kind of teeming with art 192 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: if you you can just look up pictures or you 193 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: can go on YouTube, and there are quite a few 194 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: YouTube videos of people just doing like a little walking 195 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: tour of Freetown, Christiania, and it's awesome. It looks like, 196 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, there's murals everywhere. They started hosting plays and 197 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: musicals at the Gray Hall over the years, and it's 198 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: just sort of a lovely place if you're into art, 199 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: you know, any kind of visual or musical art. 200 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I said there were about eight hundred 201 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 2: and nine hundred residents. I saw about one hundred and 202 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: fifty of those are kids, and there are children who 203 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: are raised. Like you said, they've established kindergartens there. And 204 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: there's a guy named Lucas Forshammer. He's the lead singer 205 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: of a group, a band called Lucas Graham and they 206 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: sing in English. I think they're big ish from what 207 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 2: I saw, it's kind of pop country almost. He was 208 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: born and raised in Christiania, and I was reading a 209 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 2: Rolling Stone article with him, and it was really interesting 210 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: him because he seems very mellow and nice and open. 211 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: But one of his quotes was that he learned how 212 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: to mix a Molotov cocktail before he learned how to 213 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: mix a Long Island iced tea. 214 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: Wow, which is interesting because they generally, I mean, we'll 215 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: talk about think when things got a little violent, but 216 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: they're a peaceful people. 217 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: They are, but they also, you know, the cops show 218 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 2: up whenever they want and this is like a group 219 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: of anarchist squatters and they don't really like police presences, 220 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah, so it's a there's this real undercurrent 221 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: under this whole story, because the there's a it's a 222 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: generally positive story, but you also can't forget we're talking 223 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: about anarchists squatting in the middle of a modern city 224 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: and being pressured from outside and pushing back on that 225 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: pressure in ways that you know you can't forget. 226 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So I think we sort of teased 227 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: a bit of a dark side. And why don't we 228 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: take a break and we'll talk about another type of 229 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: person who moved to Christiania right after this. All right, 230 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: So we mentioned that lots of like cool, free spirited 231 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: artists moved to Christiania and put on plays and musicals 232 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: and painted walls and did all kinds of fun stuff 233 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: open shops and cafes. But also that became the what 234 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: was known as the green Light District where even though 235 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: marijuana was illegal and Denmark, they would sell drugs there, 236 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: mainly pot, and it was called Pusher Street. They sold 237 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: the street where they sold the drugs was ended up 238 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: being called Pusher Street. It was generally like I said, 239 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: selling weed and hash not the biggest deal. But anytime 240 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: you have that kind of thing, you know somebody will 241 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: come in wanting heroin or acid or you know, whatever 242 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: you name a drug, and harder drugs did kind of 243 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: come in and it got pretty out of hand and 244 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: they had a lot of problems with the cops and 245 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: eventually gangs over the years. 246 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah they did, because I mean, marijuana is not recreational. 247 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: Marijuana was not and I think still is not legal 248 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: in Denmark. So this is like flagrant open selling of 249 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: hash in particular, and because this is a black market, 250 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: the people who are willing to kind of step up 251 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 2: and you know, offer those services or those products are 252 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: criminal elements. So those gangs in particular, the how are 253 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 2: we going to say this, the BS Motorcycle Club. 254 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean everybody knows what that is. We don't 255 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: cuss on this show, but that was one of their names. 256 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: And then the world famous Hell's Angels. 257 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: I think you mean the h Double Hockey Stix Angel. 258 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: That's right, thank you. They those two gangs ended up 259 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: trying to take over Pusher Street and there was actually 260 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: a gang war from nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty six. 261 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: Between those two gangs, and a lot of it played 262 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: out on Pusher Street. Now, like you said, the people 263 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: who live there are pretty much peace loving, they're self governing, 264 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: they're just generally mellow people. And all of a sudden, 265 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: there's motorcycle gangs at a war in the middle of 266 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: your town. And I saw there was an article by 267 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: I think a guy in Vanity Fair of all places, 268 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: about this, and he said, if you want to imagine 269 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: Pusher Street, imagine a quaint, little small town with a 270 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: strip mall going right through the middle, down main Street, 271 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: with forty liquor stores on it. Yeah, that's essentially what 272 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 2: he said. This is like. So this just basically developed. 273 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: And remember, these people didn't like plan Pusher Street. It 274 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: just started to happen, and then it got out of hand, 275 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: certainly out of their hands because they're anarchists. They can't 276 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: call the cops because they don't believe in that kind 277 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: of stuff. They can't sick the government on these people. 278 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: They don't believe in that kind of stuff. So they 279 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: had to do whatever they could to kind of try 280 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: to keep this element out as much as possible, and 281 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: they really had a hard time with it for decades. 282 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean one of the other rules that they 283 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: eventually brought in was that you can't wear gang colors. 284 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: I think by two thousand and four, supposedly or reportedly, 285 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: up to twenty five percent of Christiania was reliant on 286 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: the drug economy. And that same Vanity Fair article said 287 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: that Pusher Street had the biggest hash market on the 288 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: planet and said it basically had forty different stalls selling 289 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: forty different brands of hashish, and the cops in twenty 290 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: sixteen estimate that the drug trade had put on Pusher 291 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: Street was worth about one hundred million American dollars a 292 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: year or one billion kroner. So it was like that 293 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: way for decades and decades. There was violence that was 294 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: at least one killing. I think the cops in nineteen 295 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: eighty seven found a dismembered body under the floor of 296 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: one of the gang's hangouts, and there was just a 297 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: lot of push and pull over the years with the 298 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: police trying to rid that scene from there, and certainly 299 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: the people, you know, like most of the people on 300 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: the inside wanting it gone. 301 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there were like there were I think 302 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: the the Hell's Angels eventually overpowered the BS motorcycle club 303 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: to the point where they folded because they kept carrying 304 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: out broad daylight hits on the BS motorcycle club's leaders, 305 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: and one of those took place at Christiania. As recently 306 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: as twenty twenty three, there was a fatal stabbing, fatal shootings. 307 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two there was 308 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: a shooting that injured three people, one of whom was 309 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: a cop. So you can imagine, like if there's certain 310 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: liberal vanguards of Danish society there, like let them live, 311 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: let them stay. This is an experience, a social experiment. 312 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: The cops in Copenhagen hate Christiania and are just I 313 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: get the impression, pull their hair out over the idea 314 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 2: that this is just allowed to continue, especially when cops 315 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 2: start getting shot and other people get murdered in broad 316 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: daylight in this place. 317 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean they had in nineteen ninety two, 318 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: like an eighteen month campaign to get all the drugs 319 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,239 Speaker 1: out of there that didn't work. At one point they 320 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: were patrolling twenty four to seven. There's in two thousand 321 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: and four they had built the cops had built a 322 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: Pusher Street replica at their training facility. So they could 323 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: literally train for like exactly how to handle that area. 324 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: And there was a song even the district Police department 325 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: wrote a song about the dealers that had the line 326 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: clear out Christiania, take the s down. They will never 327 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: never smoke a joint again. That's what happens when cops 328 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: write songs, by the. 329 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: Way, right. And they also in twenty twenty two alone, 330 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: they raided Pusher Street one hundred times. Yeah, and they 331 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 2: kept bouncing back. It kept bouncing back. I saw that 332 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: even though they didn't call the police. This was somebody 333 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: who was explaining it on Quora. I'm not quite sure 334 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 2: what there their bona fides are, Yeah, so take this 335 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 2: with a grain of salt, but they seem to not 336 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 2: be quite sensationalists. They said that at one point, the 337 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: residents of Christiania essentially baited a police rate is how 338 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: they put it. They I'm not quite sure, but they 339 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 2: did something that they knew would attract the police. They 340 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: knew it was coming, and so they warned everybody who 341 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: lived in Christiania about it. And they didn't warn any 342 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: of the dealers on Pusher Street to base use the 343 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 2: cops to get these guys out of Pusher Street. So 344 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 2: that's I guess one tactic you could possibly use if 345 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: you're not willing to call the cops. But they they 346 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: also themselves would go disassemble these stalls. They would as 347 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 2: a group stand up to the Hell's Angels in the 348 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: BS Motorcycle Club and push them out. But even if 349 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 2: the cops are doing it, if the residents of Christiania 350 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 2: were doing it, it did not matter. For decades, they 351 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: would come back and they would sell hash and make 352 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: money and essentially intimidate the people who live there. 353 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: That's right, And they even said, never mind, that's a 354 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: terrible joke. I'm not even going to say it. But 355 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, they finally, finally, it was just 356 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, dug up Pusher Street. They 357 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: literally dug up and got rid of that street all 358 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: together and got everyone out of there, and they, I 359 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: think cobin Hagen announced plans to build a pub some 360 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: public housing on where Pusher Street used to be, so 361 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's like local crafts and stuff being sold 362 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: on Push Now. It remains to be seen if the 363 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: drug trade is going to come back, but hopefully that 364 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: did the trick and it's out of there. 365 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 2: And one of the other things I saw. Actually two 366 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: other things that Christiani a residence did over the years 367 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: to keep drugs out as best they could. The first one, 368 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: I think came in the late seventies when heroin started 369 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 2: to make a real apparance, and they were like, you 370 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: know what, we don't want heroin here. We don't want 371 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 2: hard drugs. You want to drink, you want to smoke hash, 372 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 2: you want to smoke pot, whatever, that's fine, but we 373 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: as a group are going to say we don't want 374 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: heroin here. So they essentially forced out the heroin dealers 375 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 2: and they said, you heroin addicts, if you want to stay, stay, 376 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: but you have to quit heroin. You have to go 377 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: into treatment. Yeah, and get this. They said, we're going 378 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: to test your urine randomly to make sure that you're 379 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: staying clean, and if you're not, we're going to force 380 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: you out. And I was like, I looked into how 381 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 2: they did. Then apparently there was a resident who could 382 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: detect heroin and your urine with just one tiny sip 383 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 2: at any rate. They really did drug test people. That 384 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 2: was the first time they did it. The second time 385 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: they appealed to the public and they said help save Christiania. 386 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: Buy your hash somewhere else. So they were actually actively 387 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: trying to keep people from buying hash in Christiania, which 388 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 2: apparently it's supposedly not actually cool to do, but it's 389 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: such a tourist spot, and tourists just will go buy 390 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 2: hash whenever they can out in broad daylight. That it's 391 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: it was just thriving for decades. 392 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think they said they get it 393 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: in the like peak vacation summertime. They get like as 394 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: many as ten thousand people touristing that area every day 395 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: for sure, so it's very busy area. But it seems 396 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: like they've eradicated the drugs at least for now. So 397 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: their relationship with the government over the years is that 398 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: has sort of been up and down, and we'll talk 399 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: about all that right after this. 400 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: So, Chuck, you were saying that the government has had 401 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: a love hate or lenient not so lenient relationship with 402 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: Christiania over the years, right, that's right. 403 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: How well, I mean, you know, they came in and 404 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: took over a military base. They were building fences and 405 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: they were getting torn down and sort of like, yeah, 406 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: you can have a playground, and then okay, you can 407 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: live there, and you know, I think as it started 408 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: to build there was just some raised eyebrows, but they 409 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: weren't causing a lot of trouble, so they let them go. 410 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: And by nineteen seventy two, the govern it's official stance 411 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: was like, all right, this is a social experiment and 412 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: let's see how it goes. 413 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: Right, so you think, oh, that's great, they're going to 414 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 2: leave us alone. Nope, the next year the government was saying, like, 415 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: we're not sure about this social experiment experiment thing. Everybody 416 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: needs to leave by April first, nineteen seventy six. And 417 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 2: the people of Christiania did not take that sitting down. 418 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: They sued the Danish government. They protested the court's rule 419 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 2: against Christiania over and over again. But the despite you know, 420 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: legally being able to go in and clear everybody out, 421 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: the Danish government just would never go that far. They 422 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: threatened to, they came up with plans, they came up 423 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 2: with compromises, but they never went so far as to 424 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: just go in and remove everybody. 425 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've they've threatened eviction and like had 426 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: official eviction decrees and then revoked. But yeah, like you said, 427 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: they I think it would be. It was so well 428 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: known by that point, it would be a really bad 429 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: look for the government to go in and you know, 430 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: rip like literal families out of there that were basically 431 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: doing pretty good. I mean, from what I saw, the 432 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: only kind of downside was the hash trade that went 433 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: on there for so long, and that was just in 434 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: one localized area. 435 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that seems to be how the government and 436 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: the police in particular really kept the heat on the 437 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: residents of Christiania that, like you said, that seemed to 438 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: be the only real problem with it. I've seen. If 439 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: you remove that whole drug trade, the crime in Christiania 440 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: is very very low, so regardless because nobody could get 441 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: a handle on the drug trade. In nineteen eighty nine, 442 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 2: the government actually passed what they called the Christiania Act. 443 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: I said, you guys can stay, but you're going to 444 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: have to work with us a little more. Pub owners 445 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: are going to have to start getting liquor licenses. We're 446 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: gonna need to certify your kindergarten teachers stuff like that. Right, Like, 447 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 2: there had to be some sort of governmental intervention. Their 448 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: kids have to actually go to government schools. Outside of Christiania. 449 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: There's just more involvement that the government insisted on. 450 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of years before that, in nineteen eighty seven, 451 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: they said, all right, the new plan is you can 452 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: stay here, but we're going to divide up this area 453 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: and the neighborhood is going to be rezoned into two areas. 454 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: The military ramparts where a lot of your homes are 455 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: is going to be a conservation zone and you're going 456 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: to have to move out eventually. And then the second 457 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: area is what we're going to call the urban zone, 458 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: and you can basically stay there. And then in a 459 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: couple of years they announced all the plans just to 460 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: make things a little more official. 461 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: Right, And it's sae that way for a couple decades, 462 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 2: and then two thousand and one the government's like, just 463 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 2: forget that, forget it again. We're going to evict you guys. 464 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: So finally in twenty eleven, the government in Denmark said 465 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: all right, you guys can keep doing your thing, but 466 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: you got to buy this land, like we got to 467 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: get some then out of it. And that was a 468 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: tough nut to crack for the residents there because first 469 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: of all, like they didn't have that kind of dough 470 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: and second of all, that was like not what they 471 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 1: were all about, Like, individual property ownership wasn't their jam, 472 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: and so a lot of them were turned off by 473 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: the whole idea of kind of owning that. But then 474 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: I think they saw the writing on the wall, which 475 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: is like, well, this is what allow us to stay 476 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,239 Speaker 1: at least, So they raised the money. They didn't, you know, 477 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: go out and buy individual parcels of land. They set 478 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: up a foundation that would cover all of the land 479 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: that they needed, and they raised the dough. They raised 480 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: twelve and a half million kroner and that was enough 481 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: to buy about a quarter of that land and then 482 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: pay rent for the rest of it. 483 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get this. They also took out bank loans, 484 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: which can't you see them like showing up with like 485 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: their hair kind of parted and in like styled as 486 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 2: best as they can, but they're still wearing like their 487 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: leather vest with the anarchy symbol painted on the back. Totally. 488 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's the movie version. 489 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So the way that they got around that 490 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 2: private ownership thing was they pulled everything together and they 491 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 2: bought it collectively. So Christiania itself owns the land that 492 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: these people live on. The people pay rent to the community. 493 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 2: They also pay essentially an hoa fee of something like 494 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy six kroner I think are dollars 495 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: worth a. 496 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: Month thirteen hundred and fifty kroner. Well, see, that's the 497 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: trade off is the rent is about four dollars and 498 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: sixty seven cents a month American, right, but the maintenance 499 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: fees are one hundred and ninety six a month. So 500 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: they're basically saying like, hey, you can live here for 501 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: almost nothing, but it still costs money to run this place, 502 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: and you're all going to pitch. 503 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 2: In for that exactly right. So that's actually a pretty 504 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: good work around. If you're an anarchistic you need to 505 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 2: make a deal with the capitalist devil. That's about the 506 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 2: best you can hope for. So the government was like, well, 507 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 2: it's your land now, Okay, we can't do anything, but 508 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: that's about a quarter of the land. There's still a 509 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 2: bunch of land left. And if you don't buy this, 510 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: we're gonna build public housing. That seems to be the threat. Ironically, Yeah, 511 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: the government now uses over Christiania is we're going to 512 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 2: build housing that is open to the public and you're 513 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: not going to have any say about who moves in, 514 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 2: because over the years, in another great stroke of irony, 515 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 2: the people of Christiania have gotten extremely selective of who 516 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: moves in. 517 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you have to do an interview now 518 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: to move in. It used to be like they would 519 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: just accept anybody. But you know, they got more organized. 520 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: I think there are fourteen different neighborhood groups there now, 521 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: and you know, there's a lot of I think it 522 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: just got a little more complicated as time went on, 523 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: like there has to be consensus for changing even very 524 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: minor things like changing out the windows of a building. 525 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: I think the New York Times did an article on 526 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: it that said it was like an out of control 527 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: cond association. And you know, like I said, you have 528 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: to go through an interview process just to live there now. 529 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: So I think sort of the idyllic days have come 530 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: and gone. But from what I've read about just contemporary 531 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: articles now, it seems to still be kind of a 532 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: great thing for people who live there. 533 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Like there's a sewer system, like we said, 534 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 2: garbage collection has been there a long time. They have 535 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: recycling centers, they have the Gray Hall, there's cafes, beast shows, 536 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 2: there's just a lot there's like a it's a city. 537 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 2: It's like a little city that was self built and 538 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 2: also self governed. They also Chuck have their own currency, 539 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: the lune with a slash through it, the metal o 540 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: and which means the wage. It's apparently equal to about 541 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: fifty Danish kroner and it's a minted coin made of copper. 542 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 2: I could not find where they have it minted, but 543 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: they have minted currency in Christiania. There's a pot leaf 544 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: and a snail on one side. 545 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: Nice. 546 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 2: On the other side it says free town of Christiania 547 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 2: and live and let others live. 548 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: Well, that's pretty nice. 549 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: But they have minted coins. 550 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: How you just you can get a coin minted? 551 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: I can't. I have no idea where to go get 552 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: a coin minted, and I don't even know how to 553 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 2: begin to find out. 554 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: We could get a coin minted. There's like podcasts and 555 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: people do like challenge coins and stuff all the time, 556 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: so it's a service you can have. 557 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 2: Well, are my eyes open now? 558 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: You've never gotten a challenge coin from someone or I 559 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: don't even know. 560 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: What that means. 561 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: Well, it's like not even I think there are other 562 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: names for them too. But you can get like a 563 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: coin made like Ben and Adam, I think for greatest 564 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: generation had coins made. 565 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: Well, it didn't give me one. 566 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: You could give them to people. My brother in law 567 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: and the Marines, they got a coin minted for his 568 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: I was about to say graduation, his retirement, and so 569 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: he gave me one of those coins. 570 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: So it's a thing that's awesome. Will you give me 571 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: a coin? Sure? 572 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: I'll just hop on over to coins r us and 573 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: input my what do you want to have? Momo on 574 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: one side and you me on the other? Perfect and 575 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: maybe like a like a palm tree and a Georgia beach. 576 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 2: Can you put them both in profile and make them 577 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: look like queens? 578 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: Well they already do. Okay, great, should be too hard. 579 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: That's a great coin, man, Thank you. Let's see what else. 580 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: Oh I talked about how there are only a couple 581 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: of rules to start in the first one was violence. 582 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: The second one was no hard drugs. As the gang's 583 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: got more became more and more of a problem, you 584 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: couldn't wear gang colors. Yeah, no stealing, no bulletproof vest. 585 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 2: That's actually a pretty grim rule. 586 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, you get shot, you're gonna die, exactly. 587 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 2: Take it like a man. And guns and knives. That 588 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 2: was all part of one rule and no running, No running, 589 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: that's right. 590 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: Why they said that running causes chaos or panic or something. 591 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, And they were saying that that usually 592 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 2: indicates that it's a police raid, and so other people 593 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: are going to start running too, So don't run, just walk. 594 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, lifeguard rules exactly. 595 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: So the current state of Christiani is exactly the same. 596 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: They managed to get Pusher Street closed down, or at 597 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: least they got the pushers out of Pusher Street. That 598 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 2: public housing is still on the offing. I think it's 599 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: supposed to start in twenty twenty nine, and the neighborhood's 600 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: very divided about it. Some people are like, no, we 601 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: want to know who's moving in here. We want to 602 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: vet who moves in here. Yeah, and we don't want, 603 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: you know, three hundred public houses built in the middle. 604 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 2: I think they were going to build it in the middle, 605 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: like right down Pusher Street to kind of make it 606 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: so Pusher Street never comes back. The other faction, I guess, 607 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 2: is like, no, this is actually great because we need 608 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 2: affordable housing. Copenhangen is very very expensive still, so this 609 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: is going to bring like younger people and artists and 610 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: allow people to kind of move in and we need 611 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: that kind of. 612 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: New blood too, Yeah, for sure. 613 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: So I talked about different factions. Right, There's this author 614 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 2: who I think back in nineteen eighty one, he was 615 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: a Christiania resident but also a scholar, and he wrote 616 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 2: a book Burgs Madsen is how I'm going to say 617 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 2: his name, and he essentially divided the population of Christiania 618 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: into three socioeconomic or essentially three cultural strata. One was 619 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 2: the top were the activists, who he calls the holy ones. 620 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 2: The bottom stratum was the he called them trash, and 621 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 2: then the middle stratum was the liberalists. And he essentially 622 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 2: said that the liberalists came from the middle class outside 623 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 2: of christian moved to Christiania. And I get the impression 624 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: where like the least radical, the least anarchistic, and he 625 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: essentially asserts all the way back in nineteen eighty one, 626 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 2: he points to the liberalists as the ones who led 627 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 2: to this kind of normalizing, compromising of Christiania that makes 628 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 2: it a little less radical than it originally was. 629 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say hash users, hash makers, 630 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: hash dealers, than hash haters. 631 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 2: And the hash itself it has rights in Christiania. 632 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: Oh, that's right. That's a group into itself. 633 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's the future of Christiania. You got anything else, I. 634 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: Got nothing else. It's on my list to visit if 635 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: I ever get over that way. 636 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 2: Oh. I can't wait to go to Copenhagen someday. I 637 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 2: want to just go to all of Scandinavia. 638 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, Oslo, Oslo, Stockholm. Everything I've heard is just great. 639 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: It's just like if like nice people to just riding 640 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: their bikes everywhere, then it's for you. 641 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I think monical magazine called Copenhagen the 642 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 2: World's most livable city. 643 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: Nice. 644 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: All right, we'll go there someday, Chuck. All right, and 645 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: I need to go figure out some other Scandinavian cities 646 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 2: to visit too, so I can rattle them off. That's right, 647 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: Chuck said, that's right. So it's time for listener mail. 648 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: This is from Troy. Hey, guys, been enjoying the show 649 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: for a few years, and I saw the Camp David 650 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: episode and I had to listen right away because my 651 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: dad was a captain in the Marines and stationed at 652 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 1: Camp David from nineteen seventy one to nineteen seventy three. 653 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: We lived down the hill from the camp in military housing, 654 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: and when the President Nixon at the time was not there, 655 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: we were generally able to use the facilities on the camp. 656 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: Everyone that was allowed on the camp or in the 657 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: camp had their profile with picture in the guard post 658 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: and you could drive right up to the gate. At 659 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: the time, I was fied to seven years old and 660 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: actually learned to swim in that figure eight pool. There's 661 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: a picture out there of Gerald Ford and his dog 662 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: by the pool at the exact spot I remember just 663 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: going for it and jumping in. My dad passed away 664 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, and while going through his stuff I 665 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: found his short autobiography. I was really surprised at how 666 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: candidly he described some of this, because he never really 667 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: talked about it that much. Below is an excerpt of 668 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: his memories there, and he included a really nice page 669 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: from his dad that I read and it was awesome. 670 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: I still have some memorabilia from the time there as well, 671 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: including Camp David playing cards and a Russian clock given 672 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: by some dignitaries that visited. 673 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 2: Awesome. 674 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: Keep up the great work, and that is from Troy Buscher. 675 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 2: Well, thanks a lot, Troy. That's a great story. And 676 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 2: if you want to be like Troy and tell us 677 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 2: a personal story, especially a sweet one about your dad 678 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 2: that has to do with one of our episodes we 679 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 2: want to hear from you, send it off to Stuff 680 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 681 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know a production of iHeartRadio. For more 682 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 683 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.