WEBVTT - Vox Co-Founder on New Book

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So excited Matthew Iglesia's co founder

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<v Speaker 1>of Vox, joining us on the phone from Washington, d C.

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<v Speaker 1>A new book, One Billion Americans, The Case for Thinking Bigger. Matthew,

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<v Speaker 1>what a thrill. I'm really really excited to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I have followed your writing, your podcasting for

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<v Speaker 1>so long, like back to the money Box days, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean and and beyond, so really than I've been looking

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<v Speaker 1>forward to this. So thanks so much for joining. That's

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<v Speaker 1>that's incredibly kind of you to say. I'm really thrilled

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<v Speaker 1>to be here. Um, So tell us about this book.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a big idea. I love it. It's very big.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very big. So look, uh, the United States major

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<v Speaker 1>world power. We've been probably the most prominent country in

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<v Speaker 1>the world for a hundred years now, the world's largest economy,

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<v Speaker 1>the world's largest domestic market. But China is up and

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<v Speaker 1>coming on us. They're in purchasing power parity terms. Their

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<v Speaker 1>economy is bigger than ours. There's a lot of tensions.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, talk about TikTok, you can talk about PRC censorship,

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<v Speaker 1>of American movies. Um, And you know, what do we

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<v Speaker 1>want to do about this? And I think one obvious

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<v Speaker 1>answer would be to go after the underlying source of

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese strength, which is that they are such a large country.

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<v Speaker 1>We could seek to grow our own population domestically. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's both by being more open to immigrants we are

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<v Speaker 1>privileged to be a country that tens of millions of

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<v Speaker 1>people around the world want to move to, and also

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<v Speaker 1>by doing more to support Americans who want to have children.

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<v Speaker 1>We have, on average about one point seven children per woman,

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<v Speaker 1>but the average woman says she'd like to have about

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<v Speaker 1>two point six children. Men slightly lower preferences. But also,

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<v Speaker 1>people don't necessarily care what we think. Um, and we

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<v Speaker 1>don't do very much financially to let people have the

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<v Speaker 1>family life that they aspire to. We do no child

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<v Speaker 1>allowance unlike most countries. In most jurisdictions, we don't provide

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<v Speaker 1>for preschool. We don't do much to help kids out

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<v Speaker 1>during the summertime. Right now, during COVID in large swabs

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<v Speaker 1>of the country were barely even running public schools. So

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<v Speaker 1>the idea here is focus on those two pillars in strength,

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<v Speaker 1>support families who want to have kids, support immigrants who

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<v Speaker 1>want to come here, grow the population, stay number one forever. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that point seven child is my favorite. I'm just gonna

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<v Speaker 1>say that two point Hey listen, I'm one of seven kids.

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<v Speaker 1>There are nine of us in our family, so we've

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<v Speaker 1>done our part to get towards that one billion number.

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<v Speaker 1>What's interesting is, though, and we talk about this a

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<v Speaker 1>lot um. I mean, Jason, you know, has several kids,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just think it's not easy to have big

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<v Speaker 1>families anymore. You talk about policy changes, I mean, we

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<v Speaker 1>really have to change things dramatically in order to make

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<v Speaker 1>it possible. You know, there's a lot of stuff on

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<v Speaker 1>the policy front that would have to change. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>some of that is money. Some of it is housing policy,

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<v Speaker 1>right if you live in coastal areas, it's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>really hard to get a big house. We don't build

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<v Speaker 1>an up here. And some of it, though, is the culture. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>as family sizes have shrunk, ex patients have changed, and

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<v Speaker 1>if we go back in the other direction to start

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<v Speaker 1>having two, three kids, maybe four in some cases more commonly,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, then you start to see businesses that more

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<v Speaker 1>cater to kind of family friendly uh models, things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, we've gotten to a point of thinking

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<v Speaker 1>of children as if they're like pets. Right, It's this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of very expensive consumption luxury that some people want

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<v Speaker 1>to indulge in and other people don't. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>fundamentally that's the wrong way to think about it. Having

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<v Speaker 1>and raising children is an important social function. Not everybody

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<v Speaker 1>has to do it, but the people who do want

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<v Speaker 1>to do it should be really supported by the larger society.

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<v Speaker 1>And so Matthew and we're gonna talk more about this.

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<v Speaker 1>Only got about a minute left in this segment that

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna do some news and come back. But I

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<v Speaker 1>guess the thing that I would say just to t

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<v Speaker 1>this up and give you a minute then we'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it some more, is it's not going great right now. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is not a country, uh that they're like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>come on in, like things are going awesome, like be

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<v Speaker 1>a part of this, or like have more kids to

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<v Speaker 1>be a part of it. Not to be too cynical here, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's true, you know, but it's paradoxical. On

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<v Speaker 1>the one hand, this is a country that a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people still want to move to, right we are

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<v Speaker 1>investing incredible efforts. Trump is at least trying to keep

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<v Speaker 1>people out. But we're having real problems, real political dysfunction

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<v Speaker 1>that is undermining the strengths of America. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>part of the way to get out of that atmosphere

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<v Speaker 1>of dysfunction is to think about things that unite US

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<v Speaker 1>as a country, right, values that we have in common

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<v Speaker 1>that some of arrivals internationally don't have. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what is a project that we can embark upon. What

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<v Speaker 1>we still disagree about, things we could talk about, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what's the right way to design financial supports and families.

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<v Speaker 1>But if we can say as we did during the

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<v Speaker 1>Cold War, as we did during World War Two, then look,

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<v Speaker 1>there's something we all stand for, right that points away

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<v Speaker 1>sort of more functional punting. So, Matthew, we're gonna move on.

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<v Speaker 1>But I gotta ask you, so, what is the case

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<v Speaker 1>for bigger population here in the US. Is it just

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<v Speaker 1>a bigger consumer base? Consumption base? What's what's the thinking

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<v Speaker 1>that shape that's a game changer for the United States?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, scale matters in international politics, It matters a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>Right you look at a country like New Zealand, are

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<v Speaker 1>friends of North Canada. There's are nice countries, they've got

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<v Speaker 1>high living standards. They don't really count for anything on

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<v Speaker 1>the world stage the way the United States does. America's leaders,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, from George Washington to Abraham Lincoln through to

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<v Speaker 1>the present day, have traditionally thought that, you know, America

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<v Speaker 1>should be a beacon of freedom in the world and

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<v Speaker 1>a pastion of liberal values throughout the world. And that

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<v Speaker 1>means we need to grow, as we have through the centuries,

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<v Speaker 1>keep pace with the other countries out there, and economic terms, though,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that growing our domestic market is also useful.

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<v Speaker 1>We benefit from being the place right. Entrepreneurs from all

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<v Speaker 1>over the world they know if you want to found

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<v Speaker 1>like a great company, that this is a place to

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<v Speaker 1>come right. And so we want to let people come

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<v Speaker 1>and keep doing that. But we also we want to grow,

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<v Speaker 1>want to maintain that status that you know, New York

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<v Speaker 1>is not just a big city, it's the financial center

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<v Speaker 1>of the world. San Francisco is the technology hub of

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<v Speaker 1>the world. And that's because these big cities anchor a

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<v Speaker 1>big country. Matthew, it's Canada calling and they want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you. They've got a bone to pick, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>So Matthew, we're going to use the five or six

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<v Speaker 1>minutes we have left to just ask you what the

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<v Speaker 1>heck is going on in national politics right now? You're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing all the headlines we're seeing, you're trying to break

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<v Speaker 1>it down. You've got a great podcast, Um, how do

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<v Speaker 1>you make sense of it? How do you get your

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<v Speaker 1>head around it and separate the signal from the noise here?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, look, right now we're having a very tough

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<v Speaker 1>debate about the Supreme Court. But the fact is Republican

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<v Speaker 1>senators they have the votes to seat a conservative replacement

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<v Speaker 1>for Justice Ginsburg, they had the votes to block a

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<v Speaker 1>replacement for Justice Scalia. The frustration Democrats are dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>is that the Senate is skewed. You know, Nate Silver,

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<v Speaker 1>the smart poet lunks They say there's about a seven

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<v Speaker 1>point Republican bias in the Senate and it lets them

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<v Speaker 1>get away with stuff that grantly, Democrats couldn't pull off. Nevertheless,

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<v Speaker 1>there's actually a pretty good chance that Democrats will win

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<v Speaker 1>a majority this November because Donald Trump is quite unpopular.

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<v Speaker 1>So the interesting thing is, you know, if Democrats do

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<v Speaker 1>manage to win, are they going to do anything not

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<v Speaker 1>just about the Supreme Court, but about the inequities that

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<v Speaker 1>are sort of deeply embedded in our political institutions. Well, well,

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<v Speaker 1>any politician to anything about what's deeply embedded in our institutions, right, Matthew.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean these problems that have come out because of

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<v Speaker 1>the virus or what happened with George Floyd and others. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>you know they're not new, No, they're not new. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, of course, you know, nobody likes to see

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<v Speaker 1>when when protests turn into riots things like that. At

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, you know, you want to tell people, look,

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<v Speaker 1>work on persuasion, go vote, you know, pursue your remedies

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<v Speaker 1>through through the legal process. And if you have a

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<v Speaker 1>political system that's completely unresponsive to that, right, if people

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<v Speaker 1>who live in cities don't have representation in Congress, if

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<v Speaker 1>members of Congress just don't do anything no matter what

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<v Speaker 1>the public's level of concern is, you know, that's how

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<v Speaker 1>you get into a situation of social disorder. And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't defend everything that's happened on every side there, but

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<v Speaker 1>you you need to show people that progress is being

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<v Speaker 1>made on big national problems, and so far, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really not happening. So Matthew, I know We're meant

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about your new book, and we're celebrating it

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<v Speaker 1>as we should, but you know, I do think about

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<v Speaker 1>in many ways, how President your book The Rent Is

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<v Speaker 1>Too damn High was in terms of what we have

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<v Speaker 1>seen in this pandemic, and how so much, as Carol

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<v Speaker 1>alluded to, has been laid bare in terms of the inequalities,

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<v Speaker 1>and so much of that it feels like is manifest

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<v Speaker 1>did in people's inability to just pay their bills. And

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<v Speaker 1>we are debating that now seemingly around this question of

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<v Speaker 1>will there be more fiscal stimulus. We're going to hear

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<v Speaker 1>from Secretary Manuchin and FED Chair J Powell tomorrow about

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<v Speaker 1>this on Capitol Hill? Are there any reasonable and by

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<v Speaker 1>reason why, I mean things that maybe policymakers can agree

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<v Speaker 1>on remedies on that front at this point, given how

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<v Speaker 1>clear it is that we have an issue here, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really tough. Republicans have been very intransigent about aid

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<v Speaker 1>to state and local governments. The reason news that came

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<v Speaker 1>in about tax revenue was actually pretty good, so it

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<v Speaker 1>suggests maybe the need for aid is not quite as

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<v Speaker 1>big as Democrats have thought it was. So if Republicans

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<v Speaker 1>would say yes to a smaller number. There Democrats would

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<v Speaker 1>get what they want. Then money could go out to people,

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<v Speaker 1>which you know Democrats have been fighting for. But also

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like it would help Republicans at the election

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<v Speaker 1>to get something done here. So you know, I never

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<v Speaker 1>want to you never want to count on Congress doing anything,

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<v Speaker 1>but the stars do seem to be aligned in the

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<v Speaker 1>sense that you know, both parties will be better off

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<v Speaker 1>if they can get something done. On the other hand,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the fighting about Justice Ginsburg. See, he's going

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<v Speaker 1>to make Democrats really reluctant to do a deal now,

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<v Speaker 1>more so than they were a week ago. So, Matthew,

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<v Speaker 1>if there's one policy you could just do right now

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<v Speaker 1>that you think would have a really positive impact on

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<v Speaker 1>the US, what would it be? You know, I think

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<v Speaker 1>we should do what Canada, who I was knocking before,

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<v Speaker 1>did under under Justine start giving money to parents of

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<v Speaker 1>young children. I think it's a great response to the

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<v Speaker 1>emergency of the pandemic. Is a really tough time for parents,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's good policy for the long term. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>reason we should have such a high child property rate.

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<v Speaker 1>We can do this like we saw in then emly

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<v Speaker 1>around the simulus, the government cutting checks to people. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a very successful policy, you know, and people know what

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<v Speaker 1>they need, and we could cut through a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the problems with bureaucracy and fighting about the government by

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<v Speaker 1>just putting money in the hands of people who we

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<v Speaker 1>know need a little extra and that's parents raising young children,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, really really interesting. Uh, So glad you got

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<v Speaker 1>to spend some time with us, and so glad we

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<v Speaker 1>got to spend some time with you. Matthew Aglecias, co

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<v Speaker 1>founder of Fox You Jones us on the phone from

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<v Speaker 1>d C. His new book, One Billion Americans, The Case

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<v Speaker 1>for Thinking Bigger. Check him out on Twitter at Maddie

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<v Speaker 1>Glaciers and check out the new book