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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridgett and this is

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Speaker 1: there Are No Girls on the Internet. Today is Black Friday,

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Speaker 1: traditionally the day where people line up at major retailers

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Speaker 1: chasing so called can't missdeals, but this year feels different.

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Speaker 1: Shoppers are pulling back and many are giving big box

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Speaker 1: stores some serious side eye. Enter the we Ain't Buying

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Speaker 1: a campaign, a coalition of anti Trump economic advocacy groups

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Speaker 1: urging consumers to boycott Amazon, Target, and Home Depot from

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Day, November twenty seven through Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

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Speaker 1: Now this is especially interesting to me because you probably

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Speaker 1: already know that Target has been facing boycott since earlier

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Speaker 1: this year, and I keep seeing folks on social media ask, well,

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Speaker 1: what about Amazon? Why aren't people boycotting them too, to

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Speaker 1: which I'd say, one, a lot of folks are already

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Speaker 1: boycotting Amazon, and they should be if they can.

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Speaker 2: And two.

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Speaker 1: Target just really is different because they have long positioned

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Speaker 1: themselves as this champion of diversity and inclusion, only to

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Speaker 1: backtrack in a dramatic offensive way. The moment that Trump

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Speaker 1: returned to political power. Earlier this year, I spoke with Kiara,

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Speaker 1: a former Target vendor, about her experience working with the company.

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Speaker 1: She explains why it felt different with Target because Target

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Speaker 1: was so loudly proclaiming their allyship. She also provides an

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Speaker 1: insider's view into why that allyship felt more like a

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Speaker 1: predatory scam, how quickly Target pivoted away from the Black

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Speaker 1: community when they thought they no longer needed us, and

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Speaker 1: why now is the time to be intentional about where

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Speaker 1: all of our dollars go.

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Speaker 3: Support without capital is counterfeit. It's not support, it's lip service.

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Speaker 1: This is the story of a breakup, not between two people,

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Speaker 1: but between me and my favorite big box retailer, Target,

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Speaker 1: and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not the only one.

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Speaker 1: After George Floyd's murder back in twenty twenty, Target headquartered

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Speaker 1: in Minneapolis where his death took place, was one of

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Speaker 1: many companies that made big public commitments to racial equity.

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Speaker 1: They promised to support black communities, fun black creators, and

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Speaker 1: put black owned brands on their shelves. But in early

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, that all changed. Target quietly announced it

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Speaker 1: was walking back its DEI efforts, and for a lot

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Speaker 1: of us, that was a deal breaker. We started boycotting

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Speaker 1: because it felt like a betrayal. But here's the part

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Speaker 1: we didn't see. In the middle of that boycott, for

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Speaker 1: people like Kiara.

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Speaker 3: My name is kiar Imani and you can call me Kiara,

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Speaker 3: my friends call me Kiki.

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Speaker 1: Black creators and entrepreneurs like Kiara had finally gotten a

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Speaker 1: chance to be on the shelf at Target, a big opportunity. Right,

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Speaker 1: Not quite. In today's episode, you're going to hear how

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Speaker 1: black creators who partnered with Target didn't just get screwed

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Speaker 1: by the store.

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Speaker 2: They got low key scammed.

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Speaker 1: But first back to Kiara, it was against the backdrop

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Speaker 1: of the protest of twenty twenty that Kiara Amani, attorney

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Speaker 1: and author of the book Therapy Isn't Just for White People,

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Speaker 1: got the idea for like you cards.

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Speaker 3: It really was birthed out of a place of having

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Speaker 3: a lot of political turmoil in twenty twenty. There was

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Speaker 3: a depth of George Floyd. We were all at home.

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Speaker 3: People were having a hard time communicating and talking to

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Speaker 3: one another. One of the things that I found, very

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Speaker 3: specifically was that people would make a lot of assumptions

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Speaker 3: about what you believed, how you saw the world based

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Speaker 3: on who you were, your color, your gender, all these things.

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Speaker 3: And I found obviously people were frustrated because people have

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Speaker 3: differing opinions, and I know that that can be really stressful.

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Speaker 3: But what I really saw was people being fresh because

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Speaker 3: they felt misunderstood, like they don't see me, they don't

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Speaker 3: hear me, they don't understand why I'm so angry, they

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Speaker 3: don't understand why I'm so triggered. So the idea was

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Speaker 3: to create a card game that could help people feel seen, heard, understood.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of companies in twenty twenty, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like Target was listening. That year, they launched the REACH

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Speaker 1: Initiative Racial Equity, Action and Change, promising to increase black representation,

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Speaker 1: support black team members, guests, and communities, and even advocate

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Speaker 1: on racial policy. That in twenty twenty one, they made

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Speaker 1: a bigger commitment to spend two billion dollars by the

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Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty five supporting black businesses and to

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Speaker 1: carry over five hundred black owned brands. They'd also be

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Speaker 1: launching Forward Founders, an equity free accelerator to help over

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Speaker 1: sixty black and diverse entrepreneurs scale into mass retail. Sounds

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Speaker 1: pretty good, right, Pierre thought, so too.

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Speaker 3: I was kind of just working through my own feelings

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Speaker 3: about being black and growing up in predominantly white spaces

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Speaker 3: and not feeling seen and watching somebody in pain where

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Speaker 3: everybody was pointing to the reasons why it was okay,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to saying why is it happening and all

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Speaker 3: of those things. And then there were companies coming out

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Speaker 3: saying we stand with George Floyd, we stand with the

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Speaker 3: black community, and that was very inspiring. Our business model

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Speaker 3: from the beginning, the plan was to go straight to

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Speaker 3: B to B, which is like selling to a business

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Speaker 3: who then sells to customers, as opposed to going B

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Speaker 3: two C because going B two C is incredibly expensive.

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Speaker 3: People spend hundreds of thousands of dollars these big companies

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Speaker 3: on marketing trying to reach customers, and obviously social media

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Speaker 3: is a really helpful tool, but unless you are really

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Speaker 3: pushing your content out there with ads and paying, it's

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Speaker 3: not always the most effective at reaching people. So Target

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Speaker 3: made that statement, and I was like, this is perfect.

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Speaker 3: They are pledging to spend money on black businesses, small

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Speaker 3: black businesses. We're a small black business. We seem very

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Speaker 3: mission aligned. They care about the black community, we're black.

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Speaker 3: We created a card game that's where everybody's so I

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Speaker 3: think it'd be good for the stores. So I got

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Speaker 3: on LinkedIn and started finding emails and reaching out to

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Speaker 3: every person I could find at Target. And this is

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Speaker 3: not an ad, but I love LinkedIn because there are

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Speaker 3: only so many monikers for a company. Usually it's first

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Speaker 3: ning dot last night at company dot com. If it's

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Speaker 3: not that, there are only other few first initial last

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Speaker 3: night at company dot com. So once you figure out

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Speaker 3: one and you don't get that bounce back, you know

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Speaker 3: you have the email for almost everybody at the company.

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Speaker 3: So I found as many people as I could that

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Speaker 3: worked in buying, and then one person, I think a

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Speaker 3: black woman who worked in baby products, connected us to

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Speaker 3: another person who connected us to another person. Eventually we

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Speaker 3: got to the right buyer. They loved the game. It

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Speaker 3: gave us some suggestions about how to fix the packaging

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Speaker 3: to make it stand out on shelves, and so we

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Speaker 3: took all of those suggestions. We revamped our packaging completely

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Speaker 3: to be better for shelves, put all of our own

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Speaker 3: money into this. I personally invested like forty K of

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Speaker 3: my own personal money that I really didn't have all

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Speaker 3: my saying I'm trying to make this product perfect for shells,

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Speaker 3: and eventually they were like, you did all the things, congratulations,

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Speaker 3: welcome to Target, and we were so excited about it. It

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Speaker 3: just felt very surreal.

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Speaker 2: This creation that came from such a place of turmoil

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Speaker 2: and difficulty is now on the shelves at Target. How

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Speaker 2: did that feel?

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Speaker 3: It was really surreal. I think that's the best word

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Speaker 3: that I have to describe it. But we were also

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Speaker 3: moving so quickly that I don't know that we ever,

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Speaker 3: or I can speak for myself. I never really took

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Speaker 3: the time to soak it in and say, I'm this

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Speaker 3: girl from a small town in Virginia who had all

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Speaker 3: these big dreams and I moved to LA and I'm

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Speaker 3: doing all the things that I said I was going

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Speaker 3: to do. I really take that moment, because as soon

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Speaker 3: as you're in stores, it's like, we had to get certifications,

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Speaker 3: we have to make sure insurance it's good, we're figuring

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Speaker 3: out the warehouse, we're talking to our manufacturers, trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out costs, trying to figure out projections. So we

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Speaker 3: didn't really sit, or I didn't really sit in the

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Speaker 3: gravity of the feeling. I think It wasn't until I

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Speaker 3: probably rocked into my first Target and saw the product

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Speaker 3: on shelves that I was like, whoa, I want to

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Speaker 3: tell everybody that's my product. And then very quickly my

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Speaker 3: business mind switched on again. I was like, is this

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Speaker 3: the good placement? Who can I talk to?

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Speaker 2: Is this? You know?

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Speaker 3: How many products are in this store? And how's it selling?

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Speaker 3: And so there was a lot of mix of emotion,

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Speaker 3: but it was so I would say, crowded by trying

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Speaker 3: to make sure you get to the next step, the

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Speaker 3: next thing.

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Speaker 1: This is an episode that's not pro Target, but it

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Speaker 1: does it must be pretty cool to see something that

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Speaker 1: you created on the shelf at a store like Target. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't fuck with Target anymore personally, but I don't

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Speaker 1: want to take away from what a cool moment that

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Speaker 1: must have been.

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Speaker 3: I think to your point, obviously this conversation takes a

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Speaker 3: turn at some point, but less about the store itself.

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Speaker 3: I think in the moment when all of these companies

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Speaker 3: were making pledges. And I again grew up in Virginia

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Speaker 3: and had some very racist experiences growing up that I

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Speaker 3: talk about in my book. I had people from ten

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Speaker 3: fifteen years ago calling me to apologize for things that

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Speaker 3: you know, they're like, I think back on these moments

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Speaker 3: if I'm sorry. I had a girl from class in

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Speaker 3: law school who was like, hey, you know how our

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Speaker 3: professor you were the only black person in our class

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Speaker 3: and he used to call you colored and made you uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: When we all saw it, no one said anything like

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Speaker 3: we should have said something, So just all of the

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Speaker 3: acknowledgement that people were actually seeing it felt good to

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Speaker 3: be like, WHOA, my experiences aren't invisible. I'm not being

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Speaker 3: gas lit. Somebody believes me about what it's like to

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Speaker 3: be a black woman in this country or just a

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Speaker 3: black human being.

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Speaker 2: I really know how that feels. I'm also from Virginia,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: You know the vibes that you know we I grew

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Speaker 3: up with friends parents who were like doing battle re

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Speaker 3: enactments off the battlefields because Manassas was one of the

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Speaker 3: battles at the South one, and then people would have

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Speaker 3: parade and celebrate. That felt weird. And I'm passing statues

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Speaker 3: and schools that are named after Confederate soldiers that the

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Speaker 3: Confederacy loss, and I'm like, but you guys wanted slaves,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, no, we're just celebrating the past, so

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Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of gas lighting that is.

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Speaker 2: That was also a big part of my experience.

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Speaker 1: I used to drive down Monument Avenue to get to

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Speaker 1: my high school every day, and when I was in

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Speaker 1: elementary school. People think I'm making this up, but I

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Speaker 1: swear to you this was real. When I was in

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Speaker 1: elementary school, my public school would do Civil War Day

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Speaker 1: where kids could choose to be Confederate or Union soldiers

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Speaker 1: and come to school dressed up as either side and

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Speaker 1: do a battle march on our schools front lawn. Every

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Speaker 1: time I tell that story, people are like, well, certainly

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Speaker 1: that wasn't happening in nineteen ninety two in Virginia, and

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Speaker 1: I say, sir, I can assure you that it very

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Speaker 1: much was.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. This is why I'm grateful for the Internet, because

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Speaker 3: I've told people just google Manassas Civil War Parade, like

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Speaker 3: it'll you. You can see the google battley en Acmens.

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Speaker 3: I'm not making it up. You can see it for yourself.

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Speaker 3: And now a friend watch it. She was like, this

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Speaker 3: is one of the craziest things I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, if the.

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Speaker 1: Story of me and Target is a breakup story. Then

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Speaker 1: this is the part where I tell you how good

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Speaker 1: things used to be. All those big announcements about supporting

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Speaker 1: black owned brands, well, my black ass ate it right up,

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Speaker 1: because listen, I'm a Target girl. Do I want to

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Speaker 1: get a nice coffee and walk around Target for no

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Speaker 1: reason at all?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Yes I do. And it wasn't just the vibes.

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Speaker 1: Target was one of the first big box stores to

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Speaker 1: carry products for black natural hair. I literally could not

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Speaker 1: have gone natural had there not been a Target in

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Speaker 1: my town. So when Target said they were supporting us,

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Speaker 1: it felt real. It felt like they saw us. But

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Speaker 1: like any bad relationship, comes that moment where you start

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Speaker 1: to question things and maybe even.

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Speaker 2: Start to wonder am I being lied to.

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Speaker 1: I've tried to explain this to people, but Target, especially

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, but for me even before, it kind

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Speaker 1: of felt like Target was like for us. Now, obviously

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Speaker 1: they're a corporation. I think we're all smart enough to

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Speaker 1: know that they are about money first and foremost. But

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Speaker 1: they did all of these things to signal that they

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Speaker 1: did want to make investments in our community, and so

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Speaker 1: I think giving given the boycott and everything, people will

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Speaker 1: often ask me, well, where's the smoke for Walmart?

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Speaker 2: Where's the smoke for Amazon?

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Speaker 1: And the reason why I think it's different is because

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Speaker 1: Target went out of their way to make to like

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Speaker 1: signal to.

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Speaker 2: Us that they see us, they're for us, they want

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Speaker 2: to be in community with creators like you.

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Speaker 1: And as far as I know, I mean, I feel

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Speaker 1: like Amazon and Walmart have been very clear about who

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Speaker 1: they are the whole time, and so for me, Target

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Speaker 1: felt different.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel similarly? Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: I tell people all the time, it's cut and dry,

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Speaker 3: it's not hard. I don't like being lied to. I

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Speaker 3: am an attorney by training. I understand business. I understand money.

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Speaker 3: I understand that for profit businesses are in it to

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Speaker 3: make money. But Target made a financial commitment to the

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Speaker 3: black community. I want to believe that you're going to

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Speaker 3: do what you say you're going to do. That should

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Speaker 3: be a very basic tenet principle of morality of business

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Speaker 3: of community doing what you say you're going to do

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Speaker 3: for us. Specifically, when it came to Target, you know,

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Speaker 3: they were having all of these there's by Black on

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Speaker 3: the app and then there's a by Black section in

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Speaker 3: the stores, and they were coming off as trying to

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Speaker 3: be a part of the community. For lack of a

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Speaker 3: better metaphor, they wanted an invite to the cookout so bad,

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Speaker 3: and they were saying all the things and doing all

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Speaker 3: of the things, and speaking the language, and very quickly

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Speaker 3: we started to realize, I would say, a year or

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Speaker 3: two into the partnership, oh, this was performative.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's always rubbed me the wrong

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Speaker 1: way is how companies frame their support for black business

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Speaker 1: like it's charity, Like we should just be grateful for

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Speaker 1: the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: But let's be real that framing is offensive.

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Speaker 1: Why is it that what I am a corporation invests

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Speaker 1: in a black owned business, it gets talked about like

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Speaker 1: a handout.

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Speaker 3: The first thing being I think it was our second year,

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Speaker 3: the first year we were in the toy catalog for Christmas,

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Speaker 3: and I would say they kind of did the things

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Speaker 3: they said they were going to do again. They didn't

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Speaker 3: just say, oh, we're going to support black businesses. They

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Speaker 3: said we're going to make a financial investment in these businesses.

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Speaker 3: So as a small business, when you hear investments, especially

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Speaker 3: when it pertains to marketing, that's an incredible opportunity. We

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Speaker 3: know black businesses are the least funded by venture capitalists.

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Speaker 3: And we know you need a marketing budget to do well.

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Speaker 3: It's not just the budget for the warehouse and the product.

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Speaker 3: There's an extra capital that has to be there in

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Speaker 3: order to market the product. So it also was frustrating

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Speaker 3: because other people would be like, oh, you are expecting

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Speaker 3: a handout. I'm like, almost every white business I know

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Speaker 3: got an investment, and you just say they had They

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Speaker 3: believed in the product, so they had investors. Why is

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Speaker 3: it that our business can't be a business that's taking

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Speaker 3: an investment. Why do you see it as a handout

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Speaker 3: when it comes to a black business. Everybody builds a

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Speaker 3: business on somebody else's money, not everybody, most people. Most

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Speaker 3: people build a business on somebody else's money. They get

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Speaker 3: funding in order to get to a certain level.

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Speaker 1: So all those inspirational target ads, the ones featuring traditionally

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Speaker 1: marginalized creators and black owned brands, the ones that gave

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Speaker 1: me all those warm fuzzies and made me feel super seene, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it turns out that a lot of those creators had

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Speaker 1: to pay Target out of their own pockets to make

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Speaker 1: that happen. Let me say that again, the very people

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Speaker 1: being spotlighted the ones whose stories were being used to

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Speaker 1: sell inclusion and progress and make Target look really woke,

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Speaker 1: those same people were often footing the bill themselves. So

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Speaker 1: while I was busy watching those ads, thinking wow, Target

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Speaker 1: really gets it, the truth is a lot of that

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Speaker 1: visibility came with a cost, like a real financial cost,

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Speaker 1: not to target to the very people they claimed to

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Speaker 1: be helping and uplifting.

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Speaker 3: So I would say, like our second year in, we

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Speaker 3: got all these emails about Black History coming up and

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Speaker 3: we would love to feature you. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you remember, but they were doing all

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Speaker 3: these commercials with the black or leftin of brands and

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Speaker 3: all of these ads, and we were like, cool, that

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Speaker 3: sounds like an awesome opportunity. You were going to give

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Speaker 3: us visibility. We are paying for the rest. To be clear,

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Speaker 3: we were paying out of pocket with our own money

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Speaker 3: for the warehouse, we were paying for the product, we

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Speaker 3: were paying for insurance. There was no like check that

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Speaker 3: they gave us to help out. The only help was

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Speaker 3: the visibility. So we have a meeting and they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we'd love to feature you for Black History Month if

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Speaker 3: you here's the deck, here's the presentation. If you want

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Speaker 3: to be part of this group of like ten products

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Speaker 3: on the web page, on this random landing page, it's

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Speaker 3: only five thousand dollars. If you want to be part

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Speaker 3: of this, it's only fifteen thousand dollars. If you want

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Speaker 3: your own feature, it's only for the low price of

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00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 3: seventy five thousand dollars, you too can be And I

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Speaker 3: was like, wait a second time out, what's happening, Let's take.

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Speaker 1: A quick break.

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Speaker 2: At our back.

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Speaker 1: So while Target was raking in warm, fuzzy pr from

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Speaker 1: rubs like me for spotlighting black owned brands, they were

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Speaker 1: also shaking those very brands down for money just to

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Speaker 1: be spotlighted. So while it looked like support behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: it was more like a pay to play scheme dressed

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Speaker 1: up as progress.

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Speaker 3: I'm an entertainment attorney, right, I work with talent and

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Speaker 3: brand partnerships. If you're on social media and Instagram, you know,

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Speaker 3: if a brand is partnering with talent and the talent

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Speaker 3: is being paid, they're supposed to say ad hashtag whatever

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Speaker 3: brand partner. This is an AD. You see the links.

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Speaker 3: The FDC makes it very clear, but with Target, they

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Speaker 3: made it appear as if this was they were doing

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Speaker 3: some philanthropy for the black community by giving us visibility,

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Speaker 3: when in actuality, they were taking fifty percent of the product.

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Speaker 3: We paid for everything out of pocket, and now you're

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Speaker 3: asking me to pay for the marketing. So it became

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00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 3: something that it was like, this feels like a marketing scheme.

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Speaker 3: It's more expensive to be in target, Like this isn't

359
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 3: you investing in me? This is me investing in your business.

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Speaker 3: Like you're taking our money to build out your business,

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Speaker 3: and you pitched this as something completely different.

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Speaker 1: When a company promises one thing, take somebody's money and

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Speaker 1: deliver is a totally different thing. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to call it a scam, but it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a scam to me. And they didn't just scam the brand,

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Speaker 1: they scammed us too, the people who actually believed in

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Speaker 1: what they stood for. I'm stunned, Like, like I knew

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Speaker 1: so doing my research on you and doing my research

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Speaker 1: around my black readers, I knew there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of legwork and money that it took to be to

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Speaker 1: play ball with some of these big brands.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know it was like this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this sounds like pay to play, Like this

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Speaker 1: almost sounds like, I mean, let alone the false narrative

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Speaker 1: that they are giving you a handout.

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Speaker 2: This is them. It almost sounds like they're like low key,

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Speaker 2: he's scamming you all.

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Speaker 3: And that's what it felt like to me, if I'm honest,

379
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 3: a marketing scam. And I've talked to other small business

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Speaker 3: owners about their experiences who feel the same way, some

381
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 3: of whom had even worse experiences than we did. People

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Speaker 3: who paid ten twenty five thousand dollars and Target forgot

383
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Speaker 3: to turn on the shipping so people could see the ad,

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Speaker 3: but no one could buy the product. So that's a

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Speaker 3: waste of a small business of money. People just have

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Speaker 3: really horrible experiences, And I think again it comes back

387
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 3: to transparency. We know for most small businesses, if you're

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Speaker 3: getting into the retail game, it's going to cost a

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Speaker 3: lot of money, which is why people get investors. If

390
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 3: a company is saying, hey, we understand why the black

391
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Speaker 3: community has this disparity. We understand that your ancestors built

392
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 3: this country on their backs and we're never compensated anything

393
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 3: for it and have set you back probably thousands of years.

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Speaker 3: So we kind of want to do our part to

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Speaker 3: make things better. So we're going to make a financial investment.

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Speaker 3: But then when you start to do the numbers, it's

397
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 3: you're actually investing in them. To me, that is false.

398
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 3: It's false advertising, it's deceptive, it's manipulative, not to the

399
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 3: small businesses only, but to the consumers, to the customers.

400
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 3: Because the people I know who were going to Target,

401
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 3: of yeah, they would go, they would buy our game,

402
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 3: they would buy the other black products. But then you're

403
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 3: there on a Saturday, and I'll speak for myself, I

404
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 3: was buying everything else too. I was a Target girly,

405
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: so I would stop Starbucks, get my coffee, do my runs,

406
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,719
Speaker 3: add the things to my cart. So people like to

407
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 3: pretend like, oh, Target was doing the business as a favor.

408
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, Target was doing every business a favor,

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00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 3: because the foot traffic they brought in by pretending to

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Speaker 3: be dedicated to something that they actually were not, was

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00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 3: affecting everybody. Everybody was getting more foot traffic, everybody was

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Speaker 3: doing well, and they saw that when we left the stores,

413
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,360
Speaker 3: the foot traffic decreased. And a lot of times these

414
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 3: businesses know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.

415
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 3: They didn't understand the value of supporting the black community,

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Speaker 3: which is wild to me, especially because Black women spend

417
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 3: more money really on hair care and beauty and in

418
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 3: that space than anybody. So you should be wanting you.

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00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 3: You should basically be doing whatever we say because if

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Speaker 3: you support us, we're gonna support you. That's the way

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00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 3: black women are. I am loyal, Okay. If I decide

422
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 3: I like you, I like you. I don't even like

423
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 3: going to another hairdresser because I'm like, I have a hairdresser,

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Speaker 3: and not a lot of Black men are the same

425
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: with their barber. Like. We are very loyal people. So

426
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,360
Speaker 3: to the extent we're treated well, we'll continue to show up.

427
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 3: But my MoMA did not raise no fool. When our

428
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 3: communities show up, we bring profit with us. The CEO

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00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 3: of Target actually bragged about how diversity and inclusion efforts

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Speaker 3: were profitable for the company on Fortune's Leadership Next podcast.

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Speaker 4: When your teams, your leadership represents the consumer you serve.

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Speaker 4: I think good things happen so I can see the

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00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 4: benefits for our shareholders. I know that focus on diversity

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00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 4: and inclusion and equity has fueled much of our growth

435
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 4: over the last nine years.

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Speaker 1: This interview was in twenty twenty three, when the political

437
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: backlash against anything woke was really taking hold. Target CEO

438
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: was asked how he will maintain Target's DEI stances and

439
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: a changing political climate.

440
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 4: We think about what's right for our team and what's

441
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 4: consistent with our culture and alan when we do that,

442
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 4: I think we make really good decisions and we add

443
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 4: value for our shareholders, and that's part of why we've

444
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 4: seen explosive top line growth. So I think the facts

445
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 4: are in the results for us and the things we've done.

446
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 4: From a D and I standpoint, it's adding value, it's

447
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 4: helping us drive sales, it's building greater engagement with both

448
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 4: our teams and our guests, and those are just the

449
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 4: right things for our business today.

450
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 1: So what's interesting about what you're saying is that I,

451
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: in preparation for thinking about Target, I listened to old

452
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: podcast episodes where their leadership was on different business podcasts

453
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: and all the stuff that you just said, Target knows

454
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: they clear as day. Their leadership went on podcasts and said, oh,

455
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: the investments that we made aid and black creators helped

456
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: our bottom line.

457
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 2: And so this idea that them.

458
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: Quote unquote supporting creators of color was a handout.

459
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: They were.

460
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's disgusting to hear how scammy that support

461
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: in quotes actually was. But like supporting it being inclusive

462
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: is good for business, right, Like they're not doing it

463
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: because it's charity or because it's the right thing to do,

464
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: per their own leadership public their public statements. They were

465
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: doing it because it made them more money. And so

466
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: it's just wild to me how quick they would be

467
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 1: to turn on this loyalty that they built, even if

468
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: that loyalty was built on a lie. Like, I just

469
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: don't understand why they would block their own bag in

470
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: that way.

471
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 3: I think people get very cocky, and you see it

472
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 3: a lot in corporate America where they start to take

473
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 3: advantage of the very people that they're pledging to help.

474
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: And I've seen just really egregious things working as an eturn.

475
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: But you know, obviously the disparity in pay between white

476
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 3: creaters and black creators, or with white creators it's like, oh,

477
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 3: we can't use this likeness or image without her permission.

478
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 3: With black creators it's like, let's just tagger and not

479
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: pay her. And I'm like, come again, and they're like,

480
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: don't you think she'll be honored to be included in

481
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 3: this campaign. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, You've never

482
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: said that for any of the white creators that they'd

483
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: be honored. You understand that their business, their brand, actually

484
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: is their income, and you can't feature their image or

485
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: their likeness without paying them. Why is it when it

486
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 3: comes to the black craters for Black History Month, you're

487
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: like they they're just going to be honored to be mentioned.

488
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: So it's not unique. I think what really was hurtful

489
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: with Target is that there were so many promises made,

490
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: not just to the public, but we had meetings with

491
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: our buyers at the time. We had, you know, all

492
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: of these promises that were made, all of these campaigns

493
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: we were supposed to be included in, and we were

494
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: getting really excited based upon what we were told was

495
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 3: going to happen. And then it didn't happen, and people

496
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: started to talk about, oh, it's the ROI the sales.

497
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: We understand that, like I said, black business, diverse businesses

498
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: was good for Target's bottom line, which is why they

499
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 3: did it and why they continued to do it. I

500
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: think when they started to get cocky and everybody was

501
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 3: doing well, right, like everybody's eating all of a sudden,

502
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: it's like, thanks for coming to the party. You can

503
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 3: see yourself out. We good, we full here. I'm like,

504
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: oh okay, And I really believe, especially when it comes

505
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 3: to supporting black businesses that support without capital, it is counterfeit.

506
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 3: It's not support, it's lip service.

507
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 2: That's very very well put.

508
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: And you know, I want to talk more about this

509
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: sort of legwork that it took, you know, financial leg

510
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: work that it took to play ball with Target in

511
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: this way.

512
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: I think it did give me.

513
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: Warm fuzzies to walk around Target previously and see women

514
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: who looked like me, you know, in on that sholves.

515
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie like that felt good. But I

516
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: think that the way that that looks flashy and cool

517
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: from the outside, when from the inside it maybe isn't

518
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: so flashy and isn't so cool. I've been and I've

519
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: had experiences like this where I'm invited on a brand

520
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: trip and if people knew, it's like actually, like like

521
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: I read about your the trip that you took to

522
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: Italy where it's like, actually, we have to pay for

523
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: the flights and the lodging, and we probably spent more

524
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 1: money on our own to get there and yet target

525
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: gets to have the like, the like good pr of

526
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: having invited these like diverse creators to Italy, And I

527
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: guess the question is like, I don't know in my

528
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: experience that has taken some emotional work to be like, yeah,

529
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: it sucks, like yeah, it sucks to feel like you're

530
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: gonna be included in this fancy thing and actually have

531
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: to pay to play, and.

532
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 2: There was a there was an emotion.

533
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: I guess there was an emotional not only a financial

534
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: but an emotional cost that you have to carry where

535
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 1: you have to sort of eat these little indignities that

536
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: people on the outside simply aren't privy too.

537
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: They don't see one hundred percent, and so many of

538
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: us were siloed in our experiences, so you start I

539
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: think it feels very similar to tell people to like

540
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 3: a bad breakup where you were really excited about the person,

541
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 3: You're posting them all over your socials and then they

542
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: leave you and you're embarrassed and you're sad, and you're like,

543
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: do I take the pictures down? Was it a good relationship?

544
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 3: Did you ever love me? And then maybe start questioning

545
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: yourself was I not enough? Could I have been better?

546
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: Of course we can always be better in some capacity,

547
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: and there's this spiral that you kind of go down.

548
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until that, you know, Target made the

549
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 3: announcements about pulling back, and we were learning other I

550
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: was talking to other small black creators who had the

551
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 3: exact same experiences, people who had taken out two hundred

552
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 3: three hundred thousand dollars in loans, whose invoices weren't being paid,

553
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 3: who were dropped suddenly. And I think what's hard for

554
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: us too, is that we are a card game that

555
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 3: was literally built on telling stories, being honest, having hard conversations.

556
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 3: Small businesses have to forecast, like a year out. People

557
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 3: don't understand that either, because if you're shipping your product,

558
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: that shipping time, depending on the state of the country,

559
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: that shipping time can be a very long time and

560
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: it's very expensive to ship product quickly, and you have

561
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 3: to order a lot of products in order to get

562
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 3: a good rate. So we have to forecast. We can't

563
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 3: afford to, you know, be in February, and we're planning

564
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: for March, June, July, August, September, and then we already

565
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 3: have all the product for the season, and then right

566
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: before the season you're like, yeah, by the way, what

567
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: do you mean, By the way, We've already made the purchase.

568
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 3: So even if there was going to be a conversation

569
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: about scaling back, what I would have liked was some

570
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 3: sort of notice, you know, meet with us a year

571
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: in advance and say, hey, next year, we're actually planning

572
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 3: to scale back. This is probably going to be your

573
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: last year in store. I'm going to give you an

574
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: opportunity to plan accordingly. So, because we understand your a

575
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: small business. We made all these promises, we're taking the

576
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 3: promise back. A nice runway would have been nice.

577
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: Right after Trump was elected, Target made a big shift.

578
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: They abandoned all of their dea goals and announced that

579
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: all of those big commitments to the black community were

580
00:28:59,400 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: coming to an end.

581
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: Kiara had just become a new mom. She had poured

582
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: her time, energy, and a lot of her own money into.

583
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: Making the partnership with Target work, and then just like that,

584
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: she was dumped. You've said that, like there was no

585
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: big announcement or anything.

586
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 2: They just pulled back, and this was happening for you

587
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: and your personal life.

588
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: When you would just you were like a new mom,

589
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: congratulations on that. By the way, but like already all

590
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: of these big personal life changes, and Target just.

591
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: Pulls back like what was what?

592
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: What?

593
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: What? Tell me what that was?

594
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: Like? It was very confusing. As I mentioned, I think

595
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: as a small business, when you're forecasting, notice is everything,

596
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: communication is everything, telling somebody, hey, next year, we're going

597
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: to pull back. We made all these promises, we're not

598
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: going to keep them. If they would have had the

599
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: dignity to tell us like, that's that's what we're looking at.

600
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: So we're going to give you this year to finish

601
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 3: off you know, product merchandising, so you guys can prepare

602
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: accordingly so that when you're forecasting for next year, you

603
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: know that's don't plan to come back. That would have

604
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: been very sad, but it would have given us time.

605
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: We were already we had inventory already for Christmas, because

606
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: Christmas is like best selling time, especially if you're in

607
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 3: like the game and toy Space. And so then when

608
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: fall of twenty twenty four, then they had made the

609
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: announcement in you know, early twenty twenty five, when they

610
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: told us for the fall that they weren't going to

611
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: move forward, I'm like, what do you mean? We already

612
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: have all the inventory for the holiday here, and there

613
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: was no explanation, There was no talk about sales. I

614
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: think the exact wording we got was there's been a

615
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: shift in the lineup, good luck, carry on, and so

616
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: even that felt very cold, especially because at the very beginning,

617
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 3: again there was a lot of conversation and convincing us

618
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: to do it, and then you know, but you got

619
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: to go get your diversity certification so that we can

620
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: put on our page that you're black. We got to

621
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: be able to tell people because we didn't really care

622
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: like you could tell them or not tell them we're

623
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: a black business. But it was important to target because

624
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: that's part of their pr to show how many black

625
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: businesses they have. So there was all this courting and

626
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: then it felt like a breakup through a text message

627
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: good luck, hope, all is well, and you know that

628
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 3: that was it. There was no additional conversation. Oh and

629
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: then they add and we'll let you know if we

630
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: need you to buy any of the product back, which

631
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 3: also terrifying for small business. So I actually had a

632
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: journalist reach out to me winter twenty twenty four before

633
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: the announcement, independently from a reputable news source, and she

634
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: was like, hey, I've been doing some research, and I've

635
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 3: noticed that a lot of the black businesses that Target

636
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: pledged to support in twenty twenty are no longer in

637
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: the store or on the shelves. Like I'm just looking

638
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: them up and it's like, gone, gone, gone, what's going on?

639
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: And that was the first time that fell a little

640
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: validating because I was like, wait a second, is that true?

641
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: So I started doing my own research.

642
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: She was right.

643
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: They made the announcement, and then other small businesses started

644
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: reaching out to me and I started having conversations and

645
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: I was like, whoa. I thought that this was happening

646
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: in a silo, but we're all having the same experiences.

647
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 3: If anything, I think it's actually been such a blessing

648
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: because we have now I've created I feel like a

649
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: community of other small black entrepreneurs. And again this is

650
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: these are like the small businesses. None of us are celebrities.

651
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: We don't have celebrity names or like celebrity backing, we

652
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: don't have millions of followers. I made a viral, you know,

653
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: TikTok video talking about my experience, but I think at

654
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: the time I had like one hundred and thirty followers,

655
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 3: on TikTok or something kids you not, So we didn't

656
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: have like these huge platforms. It was really just the

657
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: visibility that target promise and then they've removed it after

658
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: we'd all spent a lot of money and had a

659
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: lot of product left and was kind of like good luck.

660
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: So I had so much stace to say about this.

661
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: One is that I firmly believe that you know, business

662
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: is business, I get it, But how you move in

663
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: business is a choice. So as you said, they could

664
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: have respectfully communicated with clarity and transparency with.

665
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: You, wouldn't You wouldn't have loved it. You wouldn't have

666
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: been throwing a party.

667
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: But you have undertood and moved on and been able

668
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: to make plans, YadA, YadA, YadA. The choice to essentially

669
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: break up with you via text, that's a choice.

670
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: That's not business.

671
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: No one forced them to handle business in such a disrespectful, sleazy,

672
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: dirty way.

673
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: That was a choice.

674
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: And I think that communicates a lot about about like

675
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: that tells me a lot about the people who are

676
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: leadership that target.

677
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: I guess I'll say that.

678
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: And then you know, when you were talking about how

679
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: you felt quite siloed, I have to imagine that Target

680
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: was sort of banking on you, as an individual creator,

681
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: internalizing this negative feeling and thinking I must have done

682
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: something wrong. They must have had some information about my product,

683
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: about how it wasn't going well. This must have been

684
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: I must have made some sort of mistake. They probably

685
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: weren't counting on you reaching out to other creators and realizing, oh,

686
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: this is a pattern. They're doing this with all of us.

687
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: They probably just wanted you personally to internalize that you

688
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: had like botched this opportunity in some way.

689
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: I fully agree, And again, I'm an attorney, so I'm

690
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: an investigator. Even I think slightly before we got the announcement,

691
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 3: there were stores where I'd pop up because we don't

692
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: get any information from Target about our demographics, like who's buying,

693
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: like what. They don't share any of that, so we

694
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 3: also have no knowledge of that other than where it's

695
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 3: selling and maybe what stores it's selling in. We would

696
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: ask questions about which cities is it selling best, which

697
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: stores is it selling in, so I could figure out

698
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: where we needed to get our sales up. So some

699
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: of these stores that they'd tell me we had product in,

700
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: I live in Los Angeles, so there were good number

701
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 3: of stores here. Some of these stores I started to

702
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 3: pop up in and I'd be, you know, walking through

703
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: the game misle in the section, and I didn't see

704
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 3: our product anywhere, and I'd be very confused, and I'd

705
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: look online and I'd be like, Okay, there's units, but

706
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: it's not here. So I'd find a manager or something.

707
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: There's one store in particular. Finally, I had a conversation

708
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: with a human and I was like, hey, excuse me,

709
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 3: I'm a creator. My product is supposed to be here.

710
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: Can you go find it? And they went to the

711
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: back and brought the product out and they're like, oh,

712
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 3: here it is. And I was like, wait, why in

713
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: it on shelves And they were like, oh, sometimes if

714
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: we only order a small amount of product, we don't

715
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: actually put it on the shelf because then we have

716
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 3: to print out the tags and it costs money for

717
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: the store. And that made me irate, because again, deceptive,

718
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: I'm giving you almost fifty percent of my profits, and

719
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 3: what you're supposed to be giving in return is shelf space.

720
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: It's visibility. It's the idea that all these people who

721
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: come to Target are going to see the product now

722
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: I'm really feeling like Rosa Parks because you're telling me

723
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: we did all this and the product is in the

724
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: back of the warehouse. So there were so much that

725
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 3: was going into it. When people would talk about like, oh,

726
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: but what were the sales? Were the sales and like,

727
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: you have no idea what was happening on the back end.

728
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: Of course, you want a product to sell. We did

729
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 3: well when our product was in the toy magazine, When

730
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 3: our product was on stores, we were always like right

731
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 3: in the pack selling well. Like there was never an

732
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 3: issue of like, no, no one's buying your product. Of course,

733
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 3: if your product's in the back, if your product's not featured,

734
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: if you have no visibility, if all the promise remarks

735
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: is taken away and nobody knows it exists, you're not

736
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: going to sell a product.

737
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm it's not often that I am like

738
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: speechless and flabbergasted, but the idea of putting your products

739
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: on the back that goes counter to how people shop

740
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: at Target.

741
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: When you're stopping at Target, it's I can't, okay.

742
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had an idea of something

743
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy and then gone to Target. Specifically

744
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: to buy it, and then if I didn't see it,

745
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: I asked, I asked the cashier or something. People need

746
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: to see the item on the shelf and then make

747
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: the decision to buy it. And so having it in

748
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: the back and is banking on someone coming in and

749
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: being like.

750
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: Oh, do you have the game?

751
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: Is?

752
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: I mean, it almost sounds like they didn't want you

753
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: all to make money. Could that be the case.

754
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: I can't speak to their intentions because I'm not in

755
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 3: their minds, but I do know it's deceptive to say

756
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: we have one hundred something black people in our stores

757
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: that we're featuring when we're not actually being featured, Like

758
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 3: that's crazy to me, But they continue to get away

759
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 3: with it. And I don't think these problems are unique

760
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 3: to Target. I think with big retail in general, there's

761
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 3: a lot that I wish I knew before we were

762
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: in about the product. But I'm the first person in

763
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: my family to have a product in stores, So this

764
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: was definitely a level of education for all of us.

765
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: But I think more so than that, it was the

766
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: lack of transparency and being told one thing when another

767
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 3: thing was happening, and we just kept experiencing that over

768
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: and over again.

769
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: And I don't like that.

770
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: I don't like being lied to.

771
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: Had you known how quickly Target was going to pull

772
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: their investments in black creators, and how they were going

773
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: to treat you and like the leg work and find

774
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: and like personal financial cost it was going to come

775
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: to be and come with the beating Target, would you

776
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: still make that deal?

777
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.

778
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 3: There's no way we spent more money. We spent more

779
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 3: money than we made. There's we would have taken. I

780
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 3: would have taken those savings and put them into trying

781
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: to reach customers again. The whole idea was that this

782
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 3: is actually going to be financially beneficial for us because

783
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 3: we have company that's going to invest money to help

784
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: us reach customers. So the very little capital I did

785
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,959
Speaker 3: have saved up. I used to make the product better

786
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: to be put on shelves that wasn't even showcased on

787
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 3: the shelf, Like y'all told us we needed a telescope

788
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 3: box that would show nicely. If you weren't going to

789
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 3: put it on the shelf, you could have let us

790
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: keep the little hanktag boxes and what leave me a

791
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: good forty thousand dollars?

792
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: God, I mean I know that you're not calling target scammers.

793
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: This this, the whole thing just feels scammy to me,

794
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: Like it just feels like a like a baiten switch,

795
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: Like when you promise one thing and deliver a completely

796
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:36,919
Speaker 1: different thing.

797
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: The word I have for that is a scam.

798
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 3: Like my god, one percent, and I mean this sounds terrible.

799
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 3: It is what it is, gonna be honest. I grew

800
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 3: up in the South, right, Like I knew who was racist.

801
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,959
Speaker 3: I knew who flew the Confederate flags, I knew who

802
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 3: the kid in my class he was like, You're just

803
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: gonna get in because you're black, And like, m actually,

804
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm at the top of my class, I'm over four

805
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 3: point oh GPA and I'm president of everything. That's why

806
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get into a good school, not because I'm black,

807
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: But like I knew who to look at and be

808
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 3: like yes, no, yes, no. This was hard for me.

809
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 3: I think this season has been hard, even living out

810
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: in LA because the racism exists, but it's all gaslighting.

811
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: It's done behind closed doors. People say one thing to

812
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: you and then you get behind a closed door and

813
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 3: it's something completely different. The conversations shift and at this

814
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 3: level in my career and now I've in rooms where

815
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 3: a lot of decisions are made and I sometimes I'm

816
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: screaming at the top of my lungs. Everybody's lying, like

817
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: you don't care about these communities. This is our all

818
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: about the ROI you want to make money, and I'm

819
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: not saying making money's bad. If you're a business, you

820
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 3: want to make money. Hopefully the relationship is mutually beneficial.

821
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 3: But that's the piece that's missing. It has to be

822
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 3: mutually beneficial. It can't just be beneficial for you and

823
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: detrimental for me. That's not a relationship. That's manipulation. I'm like,

824
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 3: you could tell me a joke, you could tell me

825
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: something I don't like, but don't tell me a lie.

826
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: The lie is what triggers me.

827
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 4: More.

828
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it.

829
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: Essence Fest, the multi generational celebration of black women, took

830
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: over New Orleans earlier this month, but this year some

831
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: folks were side eyeing the sponsors because Target was one

832
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: of them, and around this same time, mega popular streamer

833
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: Kai Sinnat announced a brand partnership with Target two. Target

834
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: also made a three hundred thousand dollars donation to a

835
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: black church organization, a move that, let's be honest, looked

836
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: like damage control. So how does Kiara feel about black brands,

837
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: creators or organizations who still play ball with Target even

838
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: after the boycott, even after.

839
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 2: The about face.

840
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: Honestly, she gets it because for a lot of black entrepreneurs,

841
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: especially the smaller ones, this this just about values. It's

842
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: about survival, visibility, what you have to do to feed

843
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: your family. And that's part of what makes us all

844
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: so painful and complicated. Target built a pipeline that black

845
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: brands bought into emotionally and financially, and then they just

846
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 1: walked away, leaving people to either stay in the game

847
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: or lose everything they put in. Is there a flip

848
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: side to this? Because right now a lot of us

849
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: are asking questions of like big, higher profile black creators

850
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: of partnerships with Target, and asking like what are your

851
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: thoughts on the boycott?

852
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: This and that?

853
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: And I wonder if is there a dynamic where black

854
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: creators are expected to shoulder a burden from our community

855
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: that non black creators don't have to shoulder, right, Like,

856
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: nobody's asking white creators like, oh, are you planning on

857
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: pulling out?

858
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Of Target given the boycotts.

859
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: But I almost wonder if we are asking black creators

860
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: to shoulder something that their non black peers just simply

861
00:41:59,160 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 1: don't have to think about.

862
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?

863
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it ae hundred percent does. And I tell people

864
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: all the time buy from black creators, and the space

865
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 3: where they're telling you is most beneficial for their business

866
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 3: because you don't know what people's contracts look like. You

867
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: don't know, like we had our actual physical product. A

868
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: lot of the Bickers creators have licensing deals, which is

869
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: completely different. It's not a product that they've created owned

870
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 3: have in their hand. It's a product that the company

871
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: makes or another company makes, and they just get the

872
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 3: right to put their name on it. They might have

873
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: the right to license your name for the next two

874
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 3: years without you, and if you pull out, you have

875
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 3: to pay them a million dollars. As I mentioned, even

876
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: for us that they let us know, you might have

877
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: to buy back your product if we don't sell out

878
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: of it, or if we take it off stores. So

879
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 3: it can be very expensive to get out of a situation.

880
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 3: I think the best way to talk about it is

881
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: somebody in an abusive relationship. It's very easy to be like, girl,

882
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: why are you still with that man? There's just so

883
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 3: much that goes into it. You don't know their financial situation,

884
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 3: you don't know what traumas they have.

885
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: You don't know. You just don't know.

886
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 3: And people need the space and the time to have

887
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 3: the freedom to make decisions that make the best sense

888
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: for them, and those decisions, I think it very It's

889
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 3: not fair to say the decision that you're making to

890
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 3: try to make sure you're in a situation that's not

891
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 3: going to pull it to you in the hole is

892
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: contrary to what it means to like support the people

893
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 3: to support and again, very complicated. I think it really

894
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 3: is kind of like a creator by creator, case by

895
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: case situation.

896
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: That's a really eloquent way of putting it, and I

897
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: appreciate it in your TikTok that I initially saw that

898
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: you were like, listen, people got to do what works

899
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: for them. But here is where I personally am at

900
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: right like keeping it with like, here are the decisions

901
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: that I am making as it pertains to target people

902
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: can do what works for them.

903
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: Here's where I'm.

904
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 3: At one hundred percent. And I don't know if you've

905
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 3: ever had this experience of working in corporate America. Kind

906
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: of the same thing with the job. If you're at

907
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 3: a job and managers are toxic and you're like, this

908
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: is crazy, they're raises girl, I'm out. If you have

909
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: the luxury to be out today, that's good for you.

910
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 3: But like I got rich, so I might need to

911
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 3: like apply to other jobs first, have some conversations, figure

912
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: out a plane before I can get out. Like, everybody's

913
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 3: situation is just so different, So it's hard to judge

914
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: on the outside when you don't know what's happening on

915
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 3: the inside.

916
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: And to that vein, I mean, what do you make

917
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: of hearing Target as a sponsor of Essence Fest this

918
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: time around, or like Target is giving money to these

919
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: big black church.

920
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 2: Groups, what do you make of that?

921
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 3: I think we all have to make choices about how

922
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 3: we're going to concede given that capitalism and racism are

923
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 3: the waters that we're swimming in. Like, I feel some

924
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: type of way about I don't know things that Mark

925
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg says, but I still have an Instagram. I feel

926
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: some type of way about how where products are coming

927
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: from and whether they're being sourced in an organic matter,

928
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 3: if it's harming the community. I hate that AI is

929
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 3: bad for the community, but also sometimes I use it

930
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 3: to help me with an email, and I have to

931
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 3: have conversations with myself like, ugh, what are the unless

932
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 3: I'm going to like live outside in a tent with

933
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: no cell phone and no computer and no contact and

934
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 3: grow my own food and all these things I think

935
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: we're all making if we're honest with ourselves, there are

936
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: areas where we're all making concessions in ways that we

937
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 3: are that are not the most ideal. But you have

938
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 3: to ask, like, where what's the most important? What sacrifices

939
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 3: am I willing to make? Can I stand on business

940
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 3: when it comes to those sacrifices. And I've heard other

941
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: people say to kind of use your money the way

942
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: that you would use your voice. So when things become

943
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: to a certain extent, things become incredibly egregious. It's like, okay,

944
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 3: like I got off X, I don't have a Twitter

945
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 3: X whatever it's called. I don't use that anymore. At

946
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: a certain point, it becomes so egregious that you have

947
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: to step away. But I think everybody has to just

948
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 3: decide for themselves. How can I look in the mirror

949
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: and feel like I am showing up as the best,

950
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: most capable, honest person and still try to find a

951
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: way to navigate the fact that we got bills to pay.

952
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good way to put it and

953
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: very realistic.

954
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: I sometimes feel online people it's like they think we

955
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: all can be like people should do what they can do.

956
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: But it's sometimes I feel like there's an expectation that

957
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: we can all be these perfect advocates and perfect activists

958
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: all the time. And yeah, if I like, like I'm

959
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: not gonna be grudge a single parent or a new

960
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: parent or somebody who is disabled, like, oh no, you

961
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: have to shop in this way, Like I personally might

962
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: be able to, you know, make certain economic choices that

963
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: somebody else might not be able to make, but they

964
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: might have the same sentiment like I do feel like

965
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,919
Speaker 1: we should be a little bit more have a little

966
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: bit more grace for where folks are and are not

967
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: able to show up.

968
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 3: And that comes back to community and the reason we

969
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 3: create this game in the first place. Like people don't

970
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: know their neighbors. So even the one day boycott where

971
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: it was like we're not spending any money, don't get

972
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: gas anything. Black people don't spend well, if you have

973
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: to get to work and you don't have gas, but

974
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 3: you got to get to work so you cannot lose

975
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 3: your job of feeds your baby. You got to get gas.

976
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: In an era where we had community, we know our neighbors,

977
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 3: what it meant to boycott was like, not only am

978
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 3: I not going to drive, I got gas, So says

979
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: if you need a ride to work, I got you.

980
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 3: We don't have it anymore. We don't have the neighbors

981
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 3: and the grandma's and the aunties and the uncles and

982
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: the dads, the people to rely on to help us

983
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 3: through these situations. So people are wanting to boycott for

984
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 3: the good of the community, but then there's no community

985
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 3: to support them through that boycott. So I think we

986
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: have to be realistic, Like before you say anything to

987
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 3: anybody to your point. I had a friend literally text

988
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 3: me it was like, girl, I had to get diapers

989
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 3: from Target. It was half off, it's right down the street.

990
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: And I was like, you don't have to apologize to me,

991
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: but unless you're willing to be the friend that's like,

992
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 3: don't go to Target. I got extra money in my

993
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 3: bank account. I'm gonna send you diapers this month. So

994
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: you don't have to worry about unless you're willing to

995
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: shoulder the responsibility so that we can all carry it together.

996
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: An aunt can't carry a cake by itself. It just can't.

997
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: And I mean, you have this great quote saying I'm

998
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: boycot not because I'm bitter, but because I want my

999
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: money and energy into spaces where diverse communities are valued

1000
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: and included, not just black dollars.

1001
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: What does that look like to you?

1002
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: So for me, a lot of this has been shopping local.

1003
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 3: So I live in Pasadena, try to go to the

1004
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 3: farmer's market once or twice a week. And I think

1005
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 3: I've mentioned like I know the people that I buy

1006
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: my honey from. I know the people I buy my

1007
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 3: yogurt from. I know the lady who I buy my

1008
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 3: pasta from. I know what they believe. I know what

1009
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 3: they're working towards in the world, or at least how

1010
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 3: they appear. Can we ever really know somebody? You know, like,

1011
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 3: what are you doing in your secret life?

1012
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: Oh?

1013
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 3: No, but I know how you. You know how you

1014
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: show up, I know the conversations you're having. I know

1015
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: that you know you notice that single mom didn't have

1016
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 3: enough money and you told her, don't worry about it.

1017
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 3: Get I got you take it. I know that you'll

1018
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 3: give someone an extra three or four yogurts because they've

1019
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: been such a loyal customer, Like I know your heart posture,

1020
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: I know the care that you have for your community.

1021
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 3: So I'm actually able to put my money behind people

1022
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 3: who stand on business for what they stand for, what

1023
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: they believe in, as opposed to as some of these

1024
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: large companies that I've worked for, so many of them,

1025
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 3: people are sitting in a room and they could care

1026
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 3: less about you or your mama or your cousin, and

1027
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: so much of us. We make money to spend money,

1028
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 3: Like the value of money in and of itself is nothing,

1029
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 3: Like you can't it doesn't help you breathe, you can't

1030
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 3: hold dollar bills. And then all of a sudden you

1031
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 3: have clarity in your mind, maybe if it's psychological for you,

1032
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 3: but there's no actual value to money other than what

1033
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 3: it can afford you, Like what can you buy with it?

1034
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 3: What can you do with it? What type of power

1035
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 3: does it give you? So the question becomes not the

1036
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 3: money itself, but what is the person who has the

1037
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 3: money planning to do with that money? And if some

1038
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 3: of these big businesses corporations. You know, they're going to

1039
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 3: use the money to push forward narratives and political ideologies

1040
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 3: and things that are going to make the world a

1041
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 3: terrible place for you and everybody around you. It just

1042
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 3: feels incredibly irresponsible to some extent not try to boycott

1043
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 3: in a realistic way.

1044
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: Don't let anybody tell you that boycotts don't work. Because

1045
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: Target is feeling it. The store had measurable drops and

1046
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 1: foot traffic, sales, reputation, and stock price. Their CEO, Brian Cornell,

1047
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: even had to take a pay cut. But don't worry,

1048
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: he's still making millions. Yeah, And I mean we have

1049
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: to keep it real. That sounds like the boycott is working.

1050
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: You know, foot traffic is down at Target. Their CEO

1051
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: is a whole mess of hot water.

1052
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: Because of all this.

1053
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: And I will say, like retail shopping is down like

1054
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: in general, but Costco is not having a rough time.

1055
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: And like when Trump wrote like was signaling that he

1056
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: wanted companies to abandon DEI, Costco said, kick rocks and

1057
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: they're doing fine. So like this was definitely a choice,

1058
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: and it seems to be a choice that it's not

1059
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: working out in target's favor, and I think that speaks to.

1060
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 2: The loyalty of real community.

1061
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: Like we I was a Target girly, like I was

1062
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 1: the person who would go to Target.

1063
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 2: If I was bored or just like wanted to be

1064
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 2: in the air conditioning.

1065
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: Just like I want to walk around to see with the

1066
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: I want to get a coffee and walk around Target,

1067
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: like that was my happy place. And I guess this

1068
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: is interesting to me how quickly this thing that was

1069
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: so ingrained in my behavior became not needed, Like I

1070
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: don't miss it.

1071
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't.

1072
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: I've replaced it with other things. And part of me

1073
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: is that I probably shouldn't have been spending the money anyway.

1074
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: And I just like, I guess it's just like they

1075
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 1: really had something there and they gave it up for nothing.

1076
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: Because I have no desire to go back into our Target.

1077
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't even miss it.

1078
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: You create again normals what you're used to. So I

1079
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: think that at first it was like, well, where are

1080
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 3: we gonna go? But you find your new routines.

1081
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 2: I get I.

1082
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: You know again, we go to the farmer's market in

1083
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 3: my house like twice a week. We have our vendors,

1084
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 3: we have our things, and I don't miss it either.

1085
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: I make my own coffee at home now I don't

1086
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 3: have to stop at Starbucks, and I'm saving money. So

1087
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 3: it's like, wait a second. In a lot of ways,

1088
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 3: this boycott is not just bad for you, it's financially,

1089
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: economically and socially good for me.

1090
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: We're taking power back a little bit.

1091
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, if this is a story about a breakup

1092
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: between me and Target, let's talk about the last time

1093
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: we saw each other.

1094
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: I walked by the local.

1095
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: Target, the one where I had enjoyed so many Target

1096
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: runs in the years before, and Target just looked kind

1097
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: of bad. I swear, I can't make this up. There

1098
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: was a cardboard cutout of country singer Morgan Wallen right

1099
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: at the entrance, advertising his newest country album, and I

1100
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: couldn't help. But wonder hadn't Target and I really had

1101
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: a relationship at all?

1102
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: What had we even seen at each other?

1103
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 1: And the Target in my community is in like a

1104
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: shopping plaza. So I go into a big plaza and

1105
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: is a Target and other things. So I walk by

1106
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: the Target still, but I don't necessarily have to go in.

1107
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: And the last time that I walked by the Target,

1108
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, they had this big stand

1109
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: with the country music artist Morgan Wallen, who, like, I

1110
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: don't know if you know him, he's I'll just say

1111
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: he yeah, he's known for some like let's just say

1112
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: racially insensitive behavior in comments and leave it at that.

1113
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: But I live in a majority, like a majority black neighborhood.

1114
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: I live in a heavily black city, and seeing these

1115
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 1: like massive Morgan Wallin stands, like literally at the entrance

1116
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: of the store, it just made me think that Target

1117
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: used to be for the gals, gays and days, and

1118
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: now they don't know who they're for. Like I was like,

1119
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: it's not the white dads who listened to Morgan Wallin

1120
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: who are going to Target. Like it just made me think,

1121
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know that Target knows who they're

1122
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: for anymore.

1123
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: Did you get that sense?

1124
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 3: And it's very confusing, Yeah, because I we got. We

1125
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 3: did give statistics about who's most likely to shop at Target,

1126
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: and it's women who are college educated who have like

1127
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 3: one kid, I think at least one kids. Like their

1128
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 3: biggest audience. I'm your audience, Okay, I buy all your things,

1129
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 3: I buy the hair stuff I buy I stop for groceries.

1130
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 3: I get the black owned stuff, I get stuff for

1131
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 3: my son. Pretty much everything in your store is something

1132
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 3: I would buy. So to me again, it comes back

1133
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 3: to not the reason we create the card games, not

1134
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 3: knowing your community, not knowing people, not knowing what's going

1135
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 3: to affect them, what they care about, what they don't

1136
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 3: care about. I heard someone say, who's you know? Won't

1137
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,959
Speaker 3: give me names? Pretty high up and people were worried

1138
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: about the boycotts and how it's going to affect business,

1139
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 3: And this high up white woman leader was like, ugh,

1140
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 3: black people will forget about it, Like, give it a

1141
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: couple of weeks, they'll forget about They'll move on. And

1142
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, you the audacity to think you know us

1143
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 3: so well? How dare you think you understand this this

1144
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 3: movement and to feel like you know what's going to

1145
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 3: happen with it? And then, you know, I do start

1146
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 3: to ask myself the hard questions. Is there a reason

1147
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 3: they feel like we're easily manipulated? Is there a reason

1148
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 3: they feel like we don't stand on business? Is it

1149
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 3: because we never fought for reparations? We've been letting white

1150
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 3: America get away with things for so long we've let

1151
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 3: them tell us we have to wear straight hair in

1152
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: the workplace and not natural hair because our natural hair

1153
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 3: is aggressive, and we like have we can seeded too

1154
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: much to the point where they're like, you've already told

1155
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 3: me how to treat you. So I'm just going to continue.

1156
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: Not that we should internalize it and say that it's

1157
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 3: our fault, but I have been asking myself the question, like,

1158
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 3: number one, where do you get the audacity? Number two?

1159
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 3: As a community, like let's have a conversation. Are we

1160
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 3: contributing to that feeling of being able to bully us

1161
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 3: without us saying or doing anything about it.

1162
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 1: I know that you've been since the shift with Target,

1163
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: You've been reinvesting in like education spaces, community spaces. How

1164
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: can folks support you? How can they support your work?

1165
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: Where can they get the book?

1166
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 2: Like? How can folks shop for you as a creator?

1167
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so my book therapy isn't just for white people.

1168
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 3: If you're not shopping on Amazon or Barnes and Nobles,

1169
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 3: they've had their own. Everybody has a thing right now.

1170
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 3: A lot of black owned bookstores also have access to

1171
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 3: the book, or you can call your black owned bookstore

1172
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 3: and ask them to get the book. Tons of the

1173
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 3: black owned bookstores in LA have the book, so you know,

1174
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 3: shop according to your preference target. Please don't We're not

1175
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 3: I think we're still listed, but they just as like

1176
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 3: out of stock recently set out of stock. Either they

1177
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 3: actually sold out or they were like, ooh, this girl's

1178
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 3: talking too much, take that product.

1179
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 2: Off the shelf.

1180
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: You can go to our website lk EU. Likeucards dot com,

1181
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 3: we have our flagship game. We have games for parents.

1182
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 3: As you mentioned, we're trying to do more stuff with

1183
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 3: kids because I think at the end of the day,

1184
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 3: if we're going to shape the next generation, how we

1185
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 3: shape the people growing up is so important. So our

1186
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 3: kids game really helps parents step into their kids psychological

1187
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 3: world and to get on their level and to not

1188
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 3: make assumptions about how they see the world and to

1189
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: really hear them. So that's also available on our website,

1190
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 3: and stay tuned. We have some other fun ideas coming

1191
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 3: down the pipeline and just playing with new ways to

1192
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 3: bring the community together. Everything we do comes back to

1193
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 3: the same goal of bringing community together.

1194
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: Community has been such a big theme of this conversation.

1195
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: Do you have any closing thoughts about community that you'd

1196
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 2: like to leave folks.

1197
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 3: With in order to be part of the community. I

1198
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 3: do think it starts with ourselves, and a huge part

1199
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 3: of that is how you interact with your neighbor. So

1200
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: if we're gonna get to this next phase of like

1201
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 3: coming together to like make a change, you see your

1202
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 3: neighbor outside waves, say hi. If they don't wave back,

1203
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 3: don't feeling well, that's my I'm never waving again because

1204
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 3: they didn't acknowledge me, and you're not the center of

1205
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 3: the world. Maybe they just found out their mom has cancer,

1206
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 3: you know, like give people grace and find ways to

1207
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 3: connect in ways that also are allowing people to show

1208
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 3: up as humans not as these perfectly like robots. I

1209
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 3: don't know, that's all.

1210
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: That's all.

1211
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 3: I got.

1212
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

1213
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: just want to say hi, you can we just had

1214
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: hello at tegodi dot com. You can also find transcripts

1215
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

1216
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by Me for JAD.

1217
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland

1218
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: as our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and

1219
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

1220
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate

1221
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1222
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you

1223
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: get your podcasts