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Speaker 1: Hi there, Catherine, Oh, Hey, Chelsea, Hey, Hey, hey jam

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Speaker 1: packed a couple of days. I'm in New York City

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Speaker 1: today yet again.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I have a jew event that I have to

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Speaker 2: go to today. What did I do yesterday?

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Speaker 1: I had.

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of exciting things happen, a lot

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Speaker 2: of exciting things. I landed in New York yesterday and

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Speaker 2: I saw about sixteen different friends and one fell swoop.

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Speaker 2: I saw so many people in one day that I

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Speaker 2: didn't even get into my hotel room until ten o'clock

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Speaker 2: at night for the first time.

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Speaker 1: And then I left again. Yeah, and I went on

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Speaker 1: a date that was cute.

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Speaker 2: Oh and then oh, I went to my knee surgeon

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Speaker 2: so he could give me the thumbs up for skiing.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm heading to Whistler soon and I'm doing all

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Speaker 2: my Canadian dates there, So if you're Canadian, make sure

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Speaker 2: you look go to Chelseahandler dot com because I'm coming

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Speaker 2: to a city near you over winter. I have all

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Speaker 2: my Canadian dates set up from January to March, so

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited about that. And I just announced Australia too.

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Speaker 2: I'm coming to Australia, you guys in July. So I

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Speaker 2: think I have about five or six shows there anyway.

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Speaker 2: But I have this little like thing on my knee

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Speaker 2: for my surgery that like, it's not the swelling isn't

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Speaker 2: going down on one of the incision sites, so it

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Speaker 2: looks almost like a wart. So I went into my

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Speaker 2: doctor this morning and I was like, you need to

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Speaker 2: fucking cut this off, Like what is this? And he's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that looks like fluid. So I went down to have

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Speaker 2: them drain in. They're like, that's not fluid, it's like

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Speaker 2: scar tissue. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you have to remove my leg full amputation. I can't

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Speaker 2: have this. I'm single, like I'm trying to hook up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I can't have a fucking ward on my knee. No,

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Speaker 2: So I'm probably gonna have to sue him. I'm not

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Speaker 2: in any lawsuits right now, so I don't see why

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't start one.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you have to have one going at all times, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, my father was very litigious and I picked up

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Speaker 2: a lot of that, and the last lawsuit I had

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Speaker 2: was I won. That was very satisfying, encouraging. I've been

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Speaker 2: in two lawsuits. One was short, little like short Claims

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Speaker 2: Court or whatever, Small Claims court, short claims, small Claims Court.

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Speaker 2: I sued them once for an outfit they ruined during

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Speaker 2: dry cleaning, and I won like one hundred and forty bucks.

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Speaker 2: I was like twenty two, So I felt very vindicated

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Speaker 2: at that point in my life. And this is my

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Speaker 2: second lawsuit and I won that too, and I won

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Speaker 2: a lot more than one hundred and forty dollars.

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Speaker 3: Well that's fantastic. I mean personally, I wouldn't continue to

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Speaker 3: roll the dice if I had like a winning streak

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Speaker 3: or two for two, I.

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Speaker 2: Know I should probably, Well, the three is a really

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Speaker 2: lucky number. That's where I really cash out. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever read the book?

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Speaker 1: Tomorrow? Tomorrow Tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: It's like literally on my nightstand right now. It almost

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Speaker 3: started it this weekend, but I don't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been so many people have told me to

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Speaker 2: read this book, and I'm reading it and everyone keeps saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: I go, isn't it about gaming? And they're like, it

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Speaker 2: is about gaming, but it's not about gaming. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: it's all about gaming. The whole book is about gaming.

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Speaker 4: See.

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Speaker 2: I love that, though, So I'm waiting for the story

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Speaker 2: that's not about gaming to happen. But I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: still reading about gaming and it's a slow read for me.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you know what everybody has to.

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Speaker 2: Watch if they haven't watched American Symphony, they have to

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Speaker 2: watch American Symphony.

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Speaker 1: But that is fucking amazing.

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Speaker 2: And it's a documentary on John Fatiste and his wife

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Speaker 2: and she wrote that book Between Two Kingdoms.

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Speaker 1: Have you read that book, Catherine?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 3: No, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great book too.

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Speaker 2: It's all about her journey of like being sick and

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Speaker 2: she was diagnosed with leukemia when she's like twenty two,

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Speaker 2: and her whole life has just basically been one transplant

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Speaker 2: after another or after another after another.

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Speaker 1: But it's pretty it's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, Chelsea, I thought of you when

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Speaker 3: I read this book. I just finished The Island of

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Speaker 3: the Sea Women. It came out a few years ago.

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Speaker 3: Have you read this?

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Speaker 1: No? I haven't. What is that?

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Speaker 3: It is fascinating. It's about this matriarchal society in South

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Speaker 3: Korea and these women who dive to go get seafood,

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Speaker 3: various different seafoods. And because they're the ones who dive,

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Speaker 3: they're the ones with the money and the men stay

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Speaker 3: home with the kids. But it is a fascinating history

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Speaker 3: of South Korea and about these women, and some of

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Speaker 3: them are even still alive and continue to dive to

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Speaker 3: this day in modern times. It's fantastic. I will bring

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Speaker 3: you my copy next week if you want to read it.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would love that you

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Speaker 2: would like it. I'd like any society that's all women.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's like historical fiction, so it gets very very dramatic.

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Speaker 3: A lot of shit happens.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

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Speaker 2: I like historical fiction too. I didn't used to, but

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Speaker 2: I've started to warm up to it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love history.

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Speaker 2: Into one of those older people that just loves history.

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Speaker 2: I can't get enough of it. The other day, I

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Speaker 2: was looking up you know, like, you know how Pearl

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Speaker 2: Harbor kind of was the reason that America ended up

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Speaker 2: getting into World War two, but they were having their

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Speaker 2: own war, the Pacific War in Japan, but Japan had

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Speaker 2: allied with Italy and Germany. Because I was like, my

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Speaker 2: friend's like, why was Japan involved in World War Two?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, I feel like I know the answer

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Speaker 2: to this, but I don't, And so I had to

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Speaker 2: do a deep dive and so I do love it.

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Speaker 1: I do love it. It's something that actually I can

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Speaker 1: really focus on as history.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I feel like history is basically just like really good

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Speaker 3: gossip about world events. You know, It's stuff that we

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Speaker 3: continue to talk about, and it's juicy and it's interesting

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Speaker 3: and kind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I'm gonna start looking at history as gossip now. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was hoping that was my one reprieve from gossip

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Speaker 2: because that seems to take up a lot of my time.

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Speaker 3: Also, especially when you see sixteen friends in one day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: People fucking love gossiping, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So who do we have on deck today? What's

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Speaker 1: our story?

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Speaker 3: Actually, today we're talking with Esther Perell and she is

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Speaker 3: on the line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good morning, Esther. How are you?

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Speaker 4: Helloilu, I'm friend, how are you?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's a pleasure to be speaking with you this morning.

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Speaker 2: This is Catherine, she's our producer.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: There, so exciting. Okay, So, well, everybody knows you. You're

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Speaker 2: a very famous psychotherapist who deals with couples, couples therapy,

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Speaker 2: sex lives, sex between couples, breakdowns between couples, and you

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Speaker 2: are the author of Mating in Captivity, which was a huge,

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Speaker 2: huge success, which a lot of people who are listening

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Speaker 2: to this podcast have read, as well as the State

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Speaker 2: of Affairs. So I know that you are launching a

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Speaker 2: course on conflict, which is called Turning Conflict into Connection.

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Speaker 2: So let's discuss that conflict and connection.

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Speaker 4: Which one are you better at.

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Speaker 1: I'm really good at conflict. I'm very good at conflict.

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Speaker 5: You know what.

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Speaker 2: Actually, it's very funny you mentioned that because I have

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Speaker 2: had trouble making connection in the past few months of

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Speaker 2: my life. I thought this would be the time for

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Speaker 2: me to be like blossoming and meeting someone. So there

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Speaker 2: hasn't been a ton of conflict, but there also hasn't

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Speaker 2: been a ton of connection.

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Speaker 4: What kind of conflict person are you? What's your style style?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've been in therapy, so I've nipped my you know,

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Speaker 2: my shortcomings in the buds, so to speak. I'm not

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Speaker 2: as crazy or scary, I should say, as I used

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 1: I'm much more, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't do any tame tame, and I understand

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Speaker 2: how to speak about things, and I understand that defensiveness

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Speaker 2: is not really a winning argument, you know. But yes,

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Speaker 2: I've experienced conflicts in my relationships as everybody has. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've gotten much better at resolving conflict.

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Speaker 2: But you need two participants that are very good at

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Speaker 2: resolving conflict, is what I've learned.

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Speaker 4: I think the first thing you said that I want

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Speaker 4: to highlight is that conflict is intrinsic to relationships. It's

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Speaker 4: not that this is part and parcel of it. We disagree,

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Speaker 4: we argue, we fight, and sometimes conflict is actually very

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Speaker 4: helpful to be dressed wrong, to create a different level

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Speaker 4: of engagement, to feel more emboldened, to ask for what

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Speaker 4: one wants. I mean, there's a lot of good juice

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Speaker 4: in conflict, but then there is also a whole other

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Speaker 4: way that people sometimes get trapped into their arguments and

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Speaker 4: they're bickering, and there's a range. Right, conflict is a

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Speaker 4: word that's like an umbrella underneath it, there are multiple

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Speaker 4: tentacles of how we fight. We disagree, we argue, we bicker,

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Speaker 4: we do slow you know, low intensity warfare or high

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Speaker 4: intensity warfare. But generally what people want is how do

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Speaker 4: we fight better? But this doesn't mean resolve things, but

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Speaker 4: it's how do we not devolve? How do we not

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Speaker 4: fall prey to the traps and the defeating strategies that

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Speaker 4: we often have when we fight, Like how do we

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Speaker 4: not bring up everything in the relationship all at once

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Speaker 4: when we are arguing about one thing. How do we

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Speaker 4: not go totalistic and it becomes you always and you never?

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Speaker 4: How do we, you know, take responsibility and not feel

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Speaker 4: like if I give in an inch, I lost my

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Speaker 4: whole sense of pride and my whole identity. How do

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Speaker 4: we decide what's wise not to say even if we

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Speaker 4: are right that there's a difference between being right and

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Speaker 4: being wise. It's all of that. And in these days

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Speaker 4: especially where we often have become quite conflict avoidant, it's

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Speaker 4: like I don't want to talk to you, I don't

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Speaker 4: want I have not we disagree, therefore you're out of

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Speaker 4: my life kind of thing. We really could use sharpening

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Speaker 4: our social skills for how to be together to deal

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Speaker 4: with fighting is not about fighting, it's about actually how

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Speaker 4: to relate and how to connect.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, the biggest roadblock for relationships is communication, right, I

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Speaker 2: mean that's pretty much all roads lead to that.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree with that or what do you think?

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Speaker 4: I think that communication is a word that we often

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Speaker 4: use to say, how do I tell you what I

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Speaker 4: need think feel. How do I get through to you?

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Speaker 4: How I get you to acquiesce with me? How do

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Speaker 4: I get you to understand me, to validate me, to

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Speaker 4: relate to me. It's okay. It's the buzzwords under which

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Speaker 4: a lot is subsumed, which is fine. I prefer to

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Speaker 4: think about relating. You know, I asked a question recently

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Speaker 4: that became very It's the favorite of mine for the

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Speaker 4: last two weeks. You know, you get a question and

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Speaker 4: you tried out in many spaces. Did you grow up

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Speaker 4: playing freely on the street? I did, Yes, an enormous

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Speaker 4: amount of people no longer do that. And what you

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Speaker 4: got when you played freely on the street, and I

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Speaker 4: asked this in four different countries where I've been touring,

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Speaker 4: is that you had unscripted, unmonitored, unchoreographed social interaction. You

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Speaker 4: practiced social negotiation. You played, you fought, you made rules,

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Speaker 4: you broke rules, you competed, you were jealous, you made friends.

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Speaker 4: This whole thing allowed you to learn how to relate

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Speaker 4: and to develop social skills. When we say we don't communicate,

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Speaker 4: it's not true. We communicate all the time. We communicate

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Speaker 4: with silence, we communicate with lift, eyebrows. We communicate with smirks,

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Speaker 4: We communicate with moving our head away. We communicate by

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Speaker 4: arguing back. We communicate. We're just not communicating in a

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Speaker 4: way that connects us. So when people say we don't communicate,

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Speaker 4: what they're saying is we're not connecting. We're fighting. We

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Speaker 4: are a part. We are experiencing each other as enemies.

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Speaker 4: We are saying things as if we don't care about

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Speaker 4: the person that we're saying it to, when in fact

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Speaker 4: it's the person that we need for their life. We

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Speaker 4: communicate non stop, but some of our communication creates productive interactions,

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Speaker 4: and some of our commun udication is destructive or defeating

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Speaker 4: or disrupting.

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Speaker 2: So in the course you talk about that, you talk

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Speaker 2: about constructive versus destructive conflict. So can you give us

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Speaker 2: an example.

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Speaker 1: Of the two?

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Speaker 4: Which one shall? I start with the negative, because we

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Speaker 4: are very, very creative in our negative ways of how

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Speaker 4: we fight. I mean, here are sure bets to torpedo

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Speaker 4: your relationship, to undermine it. Right, So we just went

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Speaker 4: through one. I'll just name it. It's called kitchen sinking.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: We're arguing about whatever you didn't water the plants or

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Speaker 4: I asked you to do something and you didn't do it,

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Speaker 4: or I forgot one more time, you know whatever. But

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Speaker 4: in the course of this argument, we are putting in

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Speaker 4: ten years of a relationship, and we put pile up

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Speaker 4: all the dirty dishes, and in fact, you can't wash

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Speaker 4: a single dish when you've got them all piled up

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Speaker 4: on top of each other. Or I disqualify everything you say.

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Speaker 4: You can give me ten things, and all these things

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Speaker 4: I actually have no problem with, but I'll argue with

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Speaker 4: the one thing that I have that I can disagree

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Speaker 4: with you on, you know, like seriously, that becomes really

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Speaker 4: of biblical proportion, you know, basically looking for evidence that

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Speaker 4: reinforces my belief. I fundamentally think you don't care about me,

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Speaker 4: and everything that I bring up are proofs that I

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Speaker 4: am right, even if it's the thing I want to

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Speaker 4: feel the least. I mean, the last thing I want

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Speaker 4: to believe is that you don't care about me. But

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Speaker 4: I'm going to prove you that you don't care about me,

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Speaker 4: and it's so twisted. I'm also going to, of course

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Speaker 4: think that when I was late, it's because there was traffic,

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Speaker 4: you know, but when you are late, it's because you

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Speaker 4: are really not attentive and not responsible. Mine is circumstantial,

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Speaker 4: yours is characterological. Those are some of the you know,

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Speaker 4: the classic negatives we escalate. I say something, you bring

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Speaker 4: up something else that is bigger than mine, and then

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Speaker 4: I say, yeah, you really want to talk about it.

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Speaker 4: Let me remind you this one, you know. And in

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Speaker 4: the end we've both completely polarized and lonely in our corners,

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Speaker 4: and you know, where's the relationship? But it's productive. It's

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Speaker 4: I'm really pissed, you know, and I want to tell

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Speaker 4: you why, and you tell it, and you don't, and

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Speaker 4: you don't go cursing the person, and you don't go

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Speaker 4: you always, you never, you know, and you go to

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Speaker 4: totalistic in your categorical thinking. You stick to the point

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Speaker 4: you put. You express your anger, you're discontent, your disbelief,

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Speaker 4: you're even you know, your fury doesn't matter, it's okay.

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Speaker 4: And then you say what you have to say, and

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Speaker 4: now you shut up and you listen for a minute,

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Speaker 4: and hopefully on the other side there's someone who either says,

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Speaker 4: I get it while you're so pissed, or it's really

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Speaker 4: hard for me to hear how pissed you are, because

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Speaker 4: it was really not my intention. That's absolutely not what

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Speaker 4: I thought about this, or you have a point, this

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Speaker 4: is true. A person earlier today says to me and

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Speaker 4: he says, you know, I really want to I want

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Speaker 4: us to be close. I want us to do things.

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Speaker 4: I want us to go out, I want to say,

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Speaker 4: And then she says, he says, you're not there. You're

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Speaker 4: not there. And then she says, give me an example.

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Speaker 4: That's like the killer one. Give me an example, because

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Speaker 4: the first thing you're going to do with the example

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Speaker 4: is shut it down, right. So he gives examples, and

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Speaker 4: so of course she argues with every example, and she

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Speaker 4: tries to say and basically he says, but you're there

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Speaker 4: for all your friends, you know, and you're just not there.

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Speaker 4: And basically I said to her, it's like, but you

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Speaker 4: agree with him, Why don't you just tell him you're right?

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Speaker 4: For some reason, I have an energy for my friends

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Speaker 4: I don't have for you. And I'm sorry, I get

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Speaker 4: it why it's upsetting to you, And honestly it's upsetting

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Speaker 4: to me too, because I actually don't understand why I

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Speaker 4: have zero energy to bring into our relationship. That makes

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Speaker 4: a conversation very short. Rather than arguing with every example

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Speaker 4: that he gave to prove to him that he shouldn't

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Speaker 4: feel lonely because she's really present, she's not.

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Speaker 2: But so, then what's the next step when somebody like

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Speaker 2: admits something like that, like, you're right, I don't have

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Speaker 2: the energy for you that I have for my girlfriends,

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Speaker 2: then what And I.

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Speaker 4: Don't know why, And I completely can see why that's

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Speaker 4: upsetting to you, And you know what, it's upsetting to

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Speaker 4: me too because I don't understand it and I don't

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Speaker 4: like it, and I don't know what to do about it.

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Speaker 4: But I'm gonna take I'm gonna take it seriously. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: So that's the beginning, Is you acknowledge a shared reality,

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Speaker 4: then then what? Then you often go from the anger

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Speaker 4: to the sadness, to the longing to the yearning to the.

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Speaker 2: Loss, which is a nicer place to be to start

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Speaker 2: a conversation. Absolutely well, okay, so talk about explosives versus implosives.

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Speaker 4: So imagine explosives. Is I'm one, you know, when I

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Speaker 4: get in there, my volume goes up, you know, and

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Speaker 4: if you don't answer, my value goes my volume goes

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Speaker 4: up a little more, you know. And I'm living with

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Speaker 4: someone who the higher I go, the quieter they go.

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Speaker 4: And they think that because they're quiet at some point,

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Speaker 4: you know, quite people sometimes thinks if I don't say anything,

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Speaker 4: at some point, she will stop. But of course she

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Speaker 4: or whoever that person is, doesn't necessarily stop, because if

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Speaker 4: you don't answer, then I feel like I'm talking to

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Speaker 4: the wind. And then I just become more and more

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Speaker 4: vociferous because there is no container. Whereas if you just

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Speaker 4: said to me, I get it, I hear you something,

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Speaker 4: then I know my point has crossed the bridge and

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Speaker 4: has arrived on the other side of the river. You know.

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Speaker 4: So what you have is people who are fighters, people

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Speaker 4: who are more into flight, and sometimes you have a

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Speaker 4: dynamic where you have one fight, one flight, and it

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Speaker 4: goes like this. So there's three primary choreographies. These are

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Speaker 4: just ways of organizing what we see and so that

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Speaker 4: we can enter. You know, it's like, what's the theater

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Speaker 4: of this argument? How do these people? How do these

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Speaker 4: people get stuck? What do they say and what do

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Speaker 4: they do to each other? And whether are they not

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Speaker 4: saying or doing that would make it better for them

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Speaker 4: when they go into this cycle of conflict?

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Speaker 2: And do do you meet with people a lot where

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Speaker 2: you feel like this must have happened. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if this is a frequent thing where you feel like

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Speaker 2: one of the partners is just unable to do the

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Speaker 2: work or to be able to hear the other person,

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Speaker 2: and that you found the situation hopeless, or do you

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Speaker 2: feel like there's always a kernel of something you can

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Speaker 2: deliver to them to help them engage.

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Speaker 4: I'll do my best, and sometimes I think not yet

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Speaker 4: or not today. You know, I'm thinking of an episode

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Speaker 4: in the podcast, and where should we begin? Where they

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Speaker 4: have vicious fights, so they both explode. When she asks

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Speaker 4: him to do something, he instantly hears his dad giving

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Speaker 4: him orders. When he doesn't do what she asks, she

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Speaker 4: instantly experiences once again, I'm going to be all alone.

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Speaker 4: I took care of everybody in my family growing up,

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Speaker 4: and this puts me right back there again. It's all

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Speaker 4: on me. And so the first thing you do that

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Speaker 4: you hope people can transition with you is instead of

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Speaker 4: what is it that you're fighting about like the cat

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Speaker 4: litter in their case, it's what is it that you're

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Speaker 4: fighting for, which in her case is I'm fighting not

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Speaker 4: to be all alone? In his case, is I'm fighting

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Speaker 4: not to be dismissed by my father. I was going

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Speaker 4: to put an adjective, but I want. And what I

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Speaker 4: ended up doing with them, which was really, you know,

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Speaker 4: you try anything you can when you've got this crescendo going.

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Speaker 4: I just said, at one point, can I just ask

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Speaker 4: you something? Would you please both life flat on the

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Speaker 4: floor and continue the argument. Now, there's something about when

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Speaker 4: we fight, we like we are mammals. We are upright,

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Speaker 4: our shoulders go up, our neck goes in, our clothes

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Speaker 4: come out, you know. But if you lie flat on

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Speaker 4: the floor, it's kind of hard to continue. So you

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Speaker 4: go into the body. You try through the instrument of

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Speaker 4: the body to say, you know, let's let's see if

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Speaker 4: I can get you unglued from these inevitable corners where

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Speaker 4: you find yourself. On occasion, somebody says I'm not lying down,

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Speaker 4: or this is ridiculous, or what's that going to do?

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Speaker 4: Or why shall I? Or why me? You know why

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00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 4: you keep pointing your finger at me? And then you

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Speaker 4: come back the next time and you say, this is

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Speaker 4: not about pointing a finger at you, because but you

404
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Speaker 4: don't want to live like this, you wouldn't be here.

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Speaker 4: Of course, I understand coupos therapy is sometimes a drop

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Speaker 4: off center, right, you bring your partner to get fixed,

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Speaker 4: and you say and you say, I'm an expert and

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Speaker 4: I can help you if.

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Speaker 1: You need Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: It's like I've been a therapy, let me show you

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Speaker 2: the way exactly. It never works either. Okay, we're going

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Speaker 2: to take a quick break and then we're going to

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Speaker 2: come back and take some callers.

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Speaker 1: And we're back.

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking about the pressure it must. I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously this is your chosen career and you're very successful

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Speaker 2: at it, but the pressure that you must feel with

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Speaker 2: couples coming in because I know I've been a couples

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Speaker 2: therapy and I was like, all right, it's on you.

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Speaker 2: If you can save this relationship, great, but this is

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Speaker 2: your responsibility now. I mean, the pressure you must feel

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Speaker 2: must be immense.

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Speaker 4: So the first thing I want to tell you, Chelsea

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Speaker 4: is I've met you before, like I know this entrance

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Speaker 4: point and my typical The first thought that comes to

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Speaker 4: mind is I cannot want this more than you need

427
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Speaker 4: to want it yourself, because it's not my relationship. I

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Speaker 4: cannot take this song where I care more about what's

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Speaker 4: going to happen to the two of you than you.

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Speaker 4: So I care a ton, but I am disempowered. If

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Speaker 4: I care more than the person whose own relationship is

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Speaker 4: at stake, I feel a tremendousness of responsibility. I also

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Speaker 4: think that often people come past do date, and you know,

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Speaker 4: it depends what good will is left, how much people

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Speaker 4: really want this to change. If they just want to

436
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 4: be right, then there's a good chance that they will

437
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 4: be right and alone right.

438
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 3: And from there let's transition into colors.

439
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: Our first question is not.

440
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: Really about conflict, but Crystal is our email center today.

441
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea. When I was thirty seven, I was diagnosed

442
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 3: with breast cancer and had to go through it, all

443
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 3: of it all at once, freezing my eggs, double mistectomy,

444
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 3: and chemo. Two years later and I'm on the other

445
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 3: side of it, cancer free and finally feeling ready to

446
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 3: date and have sex again. Here's the thing. I had

447
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 3: reconstructive surgery shortly after I was diagnosed. My new boobs

448
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 3: look perfectly fine. They aren't in ten and two positions

449
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: or anything, but they're pretty hard and they are spots.

450
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,959
Speaker 3: I can feel the crinkle of the implants. When I

451
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 3: asked my surgeon if they were ever going to feel

452
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 3: any better, She explained, They're never going to fully feel

453
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 3: like real boobs since my milk ducks and fat toooshore

454
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 3: are gone, it's just the bags in there. It was

455
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 3: upsetting to wrap my heat around, but it is what

456
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 3: it is. I guess I should be thankful that I

457
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 3: still have my nipples. Here are my questions now that

458
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: I'm about to start dating again. Should I tell a

459
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 3: guy about my boobs if I want to have sex

460
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 3: with him? Do I not say anything? Because it's a heavy,

461
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: awkward conversation and frankly a turn off. If I don't

462
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: say anything, I'm worried I'll be super self conscious during

463
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: sex and be caught up studying his reaction. Also, how

464
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 3: do I mentally prepare myself in case some guy says

465
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: something insensitive or has a less than desirable reaction? How

466
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 3: do I reframe this very deep insecurity for myself? Thanks

467
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: for all you do, Crystal.

468
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 2: Okay, Esther, why don't you go first? Since you're the professional,

469
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: So I'll just tell you what came up for me

470
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: as I'm listening to you, Crystal, is that you are

471
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: a thirty six near old woman who has just gone

472
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: through a huge experience, and you have gone through something

473
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: that most of us do not know, and you're coming

474
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 2: out on the other side, and you want to re

475
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: engage with life, and you want to reconnect with the

476
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: erotic force inside of you, and that is absolutely beautiful.

477
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: And you are a woman with a whole body and

478
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 2: all kinds of other organs, and your biggest organ is

479
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: your skin, and you're focusing on one thing, your boobs.

480
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 2: If you had her piece, it would be a different story.

481
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: It would affect the other person. In this case, this

482
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: is yours.

483
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 4: And as you get to know the person you're dating,

484
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 4: at some point you'd start to talk about what have

485
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 4: been some important experiences in your life, and you'll probably

486
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 4: end up talking about, I had cancer very young, and

487
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 4: this is what happened to me, and part of that

488
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 4: you know, and how do you feel today? Well, one

489
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: thing that I have is this, but I am alive

490
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 4: and I am healthy, and all of that proceeds, and

491
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 4: that's where you will draw your sense of strength and

492
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 4: your resilience and your confidence rather than just focusing on

493
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 4: the insecurity may not necessarily be a turn off. You

494
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: don't know if you mind somebody, for whom you know

495
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 4: your breast are their fati ish short while, but bring

496
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 4: the rest of who you are to the experience, and

497
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 4: at some point when you feel more comfortable, when you

498
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 4: feel a little more trusting, when you've heard a little

499
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: bit of the reactions about other things, then you just say

500
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 4: and then you ask how does that information land on

501
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 4: you? You know, lead it, don't be too scared. And most

502
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 4: of the time the people won't know what to say.

503
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 4: So if you hold the conversation and you lead it

504
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: with confidence, you will feel so empowered. Actually, what is

505
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: it like for you that this is a situation? Is

506
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 4: that even important to you? You can be a wonderful

507
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 4: lover regardless of what happens to your breasts. And that's

508
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 4: what we matters is what you end up experiencing together

509
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 4: with this person. If they end up focusing just on that,

510
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 4: you probably have the wrong address.

511
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also I would like to say additionally, there

512
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 2: are so many things as a woman that I get

513
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: turned off by from men if I'm on a date

514
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: or whatever, and when you really like someone, that all

515
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: flies away. Anyway, it doesn't matter. You know, every woman

516
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: has something they're insecure about. Anyway, You're just focusing on

517
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: that because that is your issue right now. But what

518
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: you know, what Esther said is so much more important

519
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: and valuable. You're alive, you're healthy, you're ready to mingle.

520
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: You want to have some action, Like you want to

521
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: be in love and be in a relationship. That's more

522
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: important than a couple of lumps or bumps or whatever.

523
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: You feel like, is it perfect about your breast? Every

524
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: woman has a body part that they're not happy about,

525
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 2: you know. Eventually you just have to get over it

526
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: and realize what your attributes are or what the best

527
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 2: things about you are that you love, you know, and

528
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: then that comes across too.

529
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: So yeah, get out there, sister.

530
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you know, Sarah, I'm so glad

531
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 3: you brought up like that. Might be somebody who's like

532
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 3: a fetish or you know, some guys are like that's

533
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: what they love. They love fake boobs, so they're like

534
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: very into that.

535
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: Or they might be an ass man who knows, Yeah,

536
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: they might not care about boobs at all. So it's

537
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: like you're worrying about something that you're creating a worry

538
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: that you don't have to. You know, you go out

539
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: there and just and be your lovely, beautiful self. Everybody

540
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: has a little thing that they don't like, so you're

541
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: not alone in that. And the more important thing is

542
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: that you're healthy and you're able to go on dates.

543
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 4: I think the concern is real, you know. I think

544
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: I understand the question, and I really appreciate you asking

545
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 4: the question because you're just coming out and there is

546
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 4: this kind of you know, who am I now? And

547
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 4: there is a sense that this is not the body

548
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 4: that you knew. But you will find yourself more at

549
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 4: ease inside your own skin as you did people and

550
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 4: hopefully you did mature people for whom what matters is

551
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 4: what is created between the two of you, not what

552
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 4: hangs on you.

553
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 3: What would you say is the right sort of timing

554
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: to bring this up?

555
00:26:59,160 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: Is it?

556
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: You know, obviously it's not while you're like walking in

557
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: the front door making out, but you know, is it

558
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 3: early on? Is that after you've kind of gotten to

559
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: know the person? Is it maybe after you've even had

560
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: sex ones?

561
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 4: You know, I don't think there's a rule on these things,

562
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 4: but I think that what you want is a broader conversation.

563
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 4: The conversation is, you know, it can be Have you

564
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 4: ever had transformative experiences. Have ever been close to death?

565
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: Have you ever felt physically vulnerable? Have you known fear?

566
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 4: Have you know? You know, there's other questions that are

567
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 4: broad questions, and then you bring that question to you

568
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 4: and you say, actually, yes, I once was diagnosed with cancer.

569
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: And so that's how it's brought in. It's not like

570
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 4: this is part of your CV, you know, and you

571
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 4: have to share this as your data. You know, this

572
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: is not data. This is stuff that grows out of

573
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 4: exploration and discovery of two people who get to know

574
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 4: each other. And you may find that, you know, you

575
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 4: have no idea what people bring, what the experiences people have.

576
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 4: You know, they may not have had cancer themselves, but

577
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 4: there's a good chance that they know somebody who died

578
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 4: of it or who had it or survived it, or

579
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 4: you know. So it's that conversation. It has to do

580
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 4: with trust, it has to do with context. This was

581
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 4: a good moment to say it. They don't say it

582
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: when you naked, I actually would not. Don't say it

583
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 4: while you're walking together and you know, in your in motion,

584
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 4: so that the stress can also kind of evacuate through

585
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 4: the through the body, and don't bring it as I

586
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 4: have a secret to tell you. This is not a secret,

587
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: and it's not a piece of data. You don't owe anything.

588
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 4: This is as we're getting to know each other, one

589
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: of the important things to know about me is this

590
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 4: experience that I had, as I have had other very

591
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: important experiences, but maybe this one has shaped me even

592
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 4: more than anything else. And in the course of that

593
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 4: experience you talk about you know, actually one of the

594
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 4: things that has stayed with me is that I had

595
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 4: to have reconstructive surgery. And you don't say is that

596
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: okay with you? You just sis, that's the part. It's

597
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 4: a piece of my life that's.

598
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: Not okay with you.

599
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: Awesome wheur next question comes from Sammy. She is thirty six.

600
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea. Last year, three days before I moved in

601
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: with my sister, her husband informed me that they now

602
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: have an open marriage and my sister is dating a

603
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: twenty two year old gal. Needless to say, I was

604
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: a little shocked and put off by the situation. Polyamory

605
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: in general doesn't bother me, but my sister and her

606
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: husband already don't have the strongest marriage. Bringing in this

607
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: third person has proven nothing more than the catastrophe you'd

608
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: imagine On top of that, they tend to be so

609
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: wrapped up in the relationship they completely forget they have children.

610
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: I hear several times a week from both of them,

611
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: I need to spend more time with the kids, but

612
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: this is never done. In fact, they spend more time

613
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: fighting about their situation than anything. Then they make up

614
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: and watch Big Love or Sister Wives and pretend they

615
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 3: have this perfect union. A few months later, the girl

616
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: moved into the house. She isn't working or going to school.

617
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: My sister and brother in law have added her to

618
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: their bank accounts now and their will and as an

619
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: emergency contact for kids at the school, literally leaving me

620
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: to be nothing but a babysitter when they want to

621
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 3: do things as a threatle They've basically made me the

622
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: enforcer of rules, chores, etc. Furthermore, I pay rent to

623
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 3: live here, and the paramour does not big surprise. I know.

624
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: I went from being the cool aunt to the mean aunt,

625
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: and all I want is for my nieces and nephews

626
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: to give me the same love and respect they give

627
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 3: their other aunts and uncles. I love my sister and

628
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 3: the kids, but this whole situation is nothing more than

629
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: a disaster. Waiting to blow up bigger than it already is.

630
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: I'll eventually move out of the house. I told my

631
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: sister when I moved in, i'd stay for two years

632
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: to help with the mortgage, etc. And I plan to

633
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: keep my word on that. But what can I do

634
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: in the meantime? Love and respect, Sammy.

635
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 5: Hi, sam Hi, Thank you so much for having me.

636
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: What a hot mess of a situation your Oh no.

637
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 5: Not understatement of the year.

638
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay, Astair, you go first. I'm dying

639
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: to hear what you have to say about this.

640
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 4: What are you doing there? Seriously? I mean, I offered

641
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 4: to pay for the mortgage, and I'm going to keep

642
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: my commitment. I mean, what where is your life?

643
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: I was in a place where, you know, I was

644
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 5: struggling on my own, so I was happy to come

645
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 5: help my sister out with her family, and I had

646
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 5: a place to stay in a reof over my head.

647
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 5: But I wasn't expecting all of it.

648
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 4: Okay, but now things have changed, so you may have

649
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 4: had very good reasons for why you chose to do

650
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 4: this back then. This is absolutely not a judgment, but

651
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 4: now it's like, why what are you doing there? Why

652
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 4: are you doing this, Let them be, let them swim

653
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 4: in their own messes, and be available to the kids

654
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: if you want to and have a life of your own.

655
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 4: You're absorbing this whole drama that isn't yours and that

656
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: doesn't need a fight, that just needs simply I think

657
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 4: that at this moment, your life's have evolved in a

658
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 4: certain way and I need to retreat and kind of

659
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: resume my own track. What's standing in the way of

660
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: your doing.

661
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 5: That currently finances, I'm working on paying some stuff back,

662
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 5: some loans back, So as soon as that is all

663
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 5: taking care of, my goal is to run as fast

664
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 5: as I can.

665
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 4: And you're paying rent, right, So can you pay that

666
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 4: rent to somebody else?

667
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 5: Yes, but probably not as nice of the rent that

668
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: I'm paying now. I'm still paying rent, but it's still

669
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 5: significantly less than my own place, for sure.

670
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 4: You know. But is there somebody else? Can you rent

671
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 4: a room in someone else's big house?

672
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: Possibly?

673
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 5: I mean I've looked. I'm on you know, Facebook, sites

674
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 5: with renting rooms and that kind of stuff, and I've

675
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 5: been reaching out and inquire. But a lot of it

676
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 5: is I have a dog and a cat, and a

677
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 5: lot of people don't allow pats. So that's kind of

678
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 5: a little bit of a wall too. So I'm I'm

679
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 5: actively working on it, and I have you know, friends

680
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 5: that are looking and helping me as well.

681
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 4: But I think that that's the primary You know, this

682
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 4: is not about what do you tell your sister, what

683
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 4: do you tell the other woman? What you tell you know,

684
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: it's really challenging when you are in the midst of

685
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 4: another family and you see things that hurt other people

686
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: and therefore hurt you. So you watch the little Smurfs

687
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 4: and you say, I feel for them. Nobody's attending to them.

688
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 4: I have to be here, but nobody appreciates what I do,

689
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 4: so here I am. So I'm in a bind because

690
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 4: I want to attend to them. But it's but you know,

691
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 4: what did you call it? The hired maid? And you

692
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 4: know you'll continue your relationship with them, but you don't

693
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 4: want to be in a situation where you taught you

694
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: were becoming coming in as a special person, as the

695
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 4: sister of as this family member, as the savior of

696
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 4: the day. So this is what's happened, is that you

697
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 4: feel devalued and you feel like you lost you know,

698
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 4: you have zero status and you feel taken for granted

699
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 4: and you feel underappreciated, and this whole scenario it won't

700
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 4: change necessarily. You can have a conversation and just say

701
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 4: here's what I'm is going on, and then they may

702
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 4: either say, yes, this is true, or they may say

703
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 4: you're oversensitive. You know, you're making a big deal out

704
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 4: of nothing, or what is actually do you want for

705
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: us to give you a price at the end of

706
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 4: every week? Or you know, you may be appreciated or dismissed.

707
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 4: But there's also another way to just say this is

708
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 4: not my place at this moment, and so if you

709
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: are actively looking, that's probably what I would suggest.

710
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the best way you said you're

711
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 2: helping your sister. You had committed to helping your sister

712
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: pay with the rent. Is that part of the reason

713
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: you moved in?

714
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, because honestly, the house that they bought, they bought

715
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 5: it at kind of a crazy time, And I think

716
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 5: they're kind of financially dependent on me too. So I

717
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 5: think a big reason that she hasn't already like kicked

718
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 5: me out is because they're dependent on that income.

719
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: Right, So that becomes very eky. Right, you need to

720
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 4: stay because you have the money tissue, and you need

721
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: them and they need you to stay. They would everybody

722
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: would rather not be together, but we all have financially

723
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 4: dependent on each other, and so it becomes this ekey thing.

724
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 4: I don't want to be with you, but I have

725
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 4: no choice. I don't want to be with you, but

726
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: I have no choice, right right?

727
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 3: And Sammie, can I ask how old the kids are?

728
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 5: They are twelve?

729
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, Well, you know, I mentioning that the kids

730
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: have you feel like the kids have lost respect for you.

731
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: I would say I would attribute that to you allowing

732
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: yourself to be caught up in this situation. You moving

733
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: out would be another way to reclaim their respect for

734
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: you because you tolerating this situation. Also, as in setting

735
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: the greatest example, I know you probably feel a little

736
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: bit responsible because they are your niece and nephews, but

737
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: your responsibility, a first and foremost is to yourself, is

738
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: to get yourself out of that situation, and then you

739
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 2: can be actively a much better influence at and all

740
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 2: of the things that you are to them by kind

741
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: of extricating yourself. I mean, I agree, you've got to

742
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: get yourself out of that situation because listen, there's a

743
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: lot of judgment coming from you, and maybe rightfully so

744
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 2: because it does sound like a hot mess. But that's

745
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: not good for any dynamic at all. You're all just

746
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: gonna get pissed and bitter. The twenty two year old

747
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: girl should be paying rent. You shouldn't be working and

748
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: paying rent. It's one or the other, you know. If

749
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: you're staying there, if you're babysitting for them all the time,

750
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: then why are you paying rent?

751
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: But listen, forget about all that convoluted stuff.

752
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: It's just more important you'll find somebody who accepts a

753
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: cat and dog, get a nice, humble room so you

754
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: can work to pay off what you need to pay

755
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: off in this interim time and reclaim your self respect

756
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: because you're not in a situation where you're feeling respectful

757
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: towards yourself because of the people that you're surrounded with. Yeah,

758
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 2: and I think you will feel better getting out of there,

759
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: you know, and you will have less judgment towards them

760
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: when it's not in your face every single day.

761
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 5: Right.

762
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you would be a very good therapist.

763
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: Ah, thank you.

764
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: Making sure that the kids know that you're available to

765
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 3: them and having that conversation with them, even though right

766
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 3: now they kind of like are annoyed with you or

767
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: whatever because you're the only one setting any rules. Like,

768
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: they're probably gonna be a little fearal for a little

769
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 3: while because you know, mom and dad aren't paying attention.

770
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 3: But like checking in with them, letting them know that

771
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: you're there, I think is maybe the best thing that

772
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: you can do.

773
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: And be firm.

774
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: Listen, be firm with kids. Kids like boundaries, even if

775
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: they don't act like it. It works. It always works

776
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: to be firm as an adult with children so that

777
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: they know where you stand and they're not going to

778
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: take advantage of you.

779
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: You're not going to put up with any bullshit. You

780
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: know you're there. You love them, They can come to you.

781
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: It's your love is unconditional, but you're not going to

782
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: put up with any sort of behavior.

783
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 5: Awesome, Thank you so much. I think it's kind of

784
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 5: the kick in the butt that I need, because you know,

785
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 5: you can tell yourself whatever you want to tell yourself,

786
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 5: but you know you kind of have to hear it

787
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 5: from an outside source before you can really give yourself

788
00:37:59,760 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 5: the p.

789
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 4: It's said with care from the three of us.

790
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, no, I know that.

791
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: I know that.

792
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sending you lots of love and I'm sure

793
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: you'll find a place soon, so keep on trucking.

794
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me.

795
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: It was a pleasure.

796
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: Thanks Sammy, Bye bye.

797
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: That is really one hot mess of a situation, I know.

798
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: And having added this one to their will and their

799
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: bank accounts, I'm like, oh geez, what is going on?

800
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: Well, bank accounts? What is that about? What I mean?

801
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: Those are they on ecstasy? Like what are they thinking?

802
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: Let's I imagine so.

803
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: Well.

804
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: Our next caller is Laura, and she had a bit

805
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 3: of a traumatic experience, but is wondering how this is

806
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: going to affect her daughter. So Laura says, I'm now

807
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 3: thirty seven, but when I was eighteen, I was invited

808
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: to a party by an older guy. My friend and

809
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: her boyfriend came with, but my interaction with this guy

810
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: quickly went south. He pushed me with full force into

811
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 3: a bush on the side of the house where no

812
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 3: one was and jumped on top of me. Even typing this,

813
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: it makes me feel so angry. My friend and her

814
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: boyfriend thankfully noticed I was gone, came looking for me,

815
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: and rustled him off of me. Almost twenty years later,

816
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 3: I live in a small town and he is a

817
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: cop here. Seeing him makes me so uncomfortable. I'm married

818
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: now and my husband fully knows the whole story and

819
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 3: hates him deeply too. But i have a beautiful young

820
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 3: daughter I'm raising, and I'm so deeply terrified of the

821
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 3: what ifs for her experience with males. How do I

822
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 3: cope with the fear of what could happen? I know

823
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 3: it's not useful or helpful to me at all, but

824
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: it's hard not to be so scared.

825
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: Laura Hi Kutie esther perel Lisa here today as our

826
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: special guest.

827
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 4: Lui lu oh wow Hi.

828
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: Okay, So the guy is a police officer in your neighborhood.

829
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 4: Have you and him actually met after the yes, since

830
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 4: he's yes now as the and do you have a

831
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 4: sense when you meet him that he knows that you

832
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 4: know that he knows?

833
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 6: Oh, one hundred percent. One hundred percent. Actually, three or

834
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 6: four weeks ago, my husband's truck got broken into and

835
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 6: we called the police, and he, of course was the

836
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 6: officer to show up, and then my husband knows. But

837
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 6: it was very uncomfortable because I mean, I have zero

838
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 6: trust in him, obviously because of what he did to me. So,

839
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 6: I mean, it just kind of felt like, I don't

840
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 6: know how to put it, but like, no matter what,

841
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 6: he didn't really care as much, you know, because he

842
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 6: knew what I knew, and he had no idea that

843
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 6: I guess he kind of like thought it was a

844
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 6: secret team he and I. I could kind of tell

845
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 6: he didn't think I had told my husband. I could tell,

846
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 6: but and at the time, my husband's not very confrontational,

847
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 6: so I wasn't gonna say anything about it not so

848
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 6: he didn't want to embarrass me.

849
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was.

850
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 6: It was very uncomfortable. And then he gave me his

851
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 6: email address too, so I could send video footage of

852
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 6: the guy who got into the truck. So just I

853
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 6: felt like a never ending process because I didn't want

854
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 6: to speak to him or see him ever again.

855
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 4: But I mean that's impossible in this town. Do you

856
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 4: ever want to have a conversation with him? Do you

857
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 4: feel the need to tell him, you know, I want

858
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 4: this to be clear between us.

859
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 6: I've thought about that and I don't know if I

860
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 6: I think it would just be for me because he

861
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 6: doesn't seem remorseful, and I can only tell by you know,

862
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 6: how he handled the situation recently, but even at the

863
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 6: time and the person he's been since then towards me,

864
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 6: he doesn't seem like he would ever care, like at all,

865
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 6: it would never affect him.

866
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 4: Okay, then we have a thing. But then you're asking

867
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 4: about your d I think. But when when I listened

868
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 4: to the story, here's what came up to me. You

869
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 4: had good friends who went with you. Yes, yeah, you

870
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 4: had friends who instantly noticed when you were not there,

871
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 4: thank goodness. Yes. So what this tells you is their

872
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 4: situation where you don't go alone. There are situations where

873
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 4: you go with very close friends and you have a

874
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 4: little quick code in advance. If any of us is

875
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 4: absent for more than you know, we go looking. And

876
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 4: you teach that to your daughter. You don't teach fear,

877
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 4: but you teach the need to understand, to have good

878
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 4: judgment and to have situations where, especially if there's going

879
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 4: to be drinking involved or this or that, to never

880
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 4: just be on your own because we need to watch

881
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 4: out for each other. And then later, much later, I fact,

882
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 4: at some point it matters. You just say, you know,

883
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 4: part of why I'm so vigilant is because and I

884
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 4: just want to make sure that you know this never

885
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 4: happens to you, and it's okay to tell. You don't

886
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 4: have to give details, but you can just say, you know,

887
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 4: I once went to a party and this is what happened.

888
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 4: You don't have to see who it is or any

889
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 4: of that, but just to say, my vigilance comes from somewhere,

890
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 4: it is. It has a good intention. I'm not here

891
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 4: to to restrain you and control you, and that's it.

892
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 4: You're part of You will remain vigilant. Sometimes you will

893
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 4: feel hyper vigilant. Sometimes you will just feel reasonably careful.

894
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 4: And sometimes you won't know if you are being too

895
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 4: much of something or too little of something, because once

896
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 4: you have these kind of experiences that take you outside

897
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 4: of the limits, then you don't. Then that's what gets shaken,

898
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 4: is the sense of the container the limits. Where is safety?

899
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 4: Am I being overly careful? Am I being overly casual?

900
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 4: And that is a part of what we stay with

901
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 4: when we have had boundaries infringed upon like that?

902
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 6: Right, No, that makes sense. I guess they call me

903
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 6: like a helicopter mom. I guess you'd say I'm like

904
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 6: extra worried all the time, and I feel like I'm

905
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 6: constantly on if that makes sense.

906
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 4: Yes, of course, of course, but you also want to

907
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 4: teach her as best you can to recognize the science,

908
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 4: because if you take over and you become the watchtower,

909
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 4: then you actually don't then she may have underdeveloped skills

910
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 4: that she could develop herself. It's that fine balance that

911
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 4: you want to You want to be careful for her,

912
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 4: but you don't want to take over to the point

913
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 4: where she becomes less capable of being in the world

914
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 4: because you are her flashlight. Yeah.

915
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: I think that's very sagacious advice. And I also would

916
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: just add that, you know, back to him being a

917
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: police officer in your community, you don't have to have

918
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: him show up if and when you ever need the

919
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: police to come to your house again. There's no reason

920
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: that you ever have to interact with him again. You

921
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 2: can easily. I know you live in a small town,

922
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: but there's no reason that you can't go to the

923
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: police station and be very honest. I mean, I know

924
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 2: you probably don't want to start something in a very

925
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: small town, but say I don't want him coming to

926
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: my house ever again, like this has to you know,

927
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 2: if there's an emergency. I want even in you know

928
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: you're not gonna want to do it in the moment

929
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: of it urgency, But he doesn't care, just like you

930
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: said he didn't care about your car being stolen. There's

931
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: no reason you have to sit with your somebody who

932
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: assaulted you in that dynamic. You can very clearly go

933
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: in there, explain what happened and say I'm not I

934
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: don't want this police officer, or you can leave out

935
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: the story and just say I don't want this police

936
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 2: officer ever coming to my house again, you know, and

937
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: let them be very clear about the fact that in

938
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: case of an emergency or anything else that comes up,

939
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: that they can't send him there. You know that's not

940
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: fair to you, and that's ridiculous. You could press you know,

941
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: you could have pressed charges if you wanted to. Obviously

942
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: there's a statute of limitations, but you know that is

943
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: not okay for him to come to your house and

944
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: you have to interact with him as somebody who's going.

945
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 3: To protect you, Yeah, and retraumatize you. Have you had

946
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: any therapy around that experience, specifically, because I can feel

947
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 3: it in your body still even just reading your email.

948
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 6: Actually, the year after words. I went to my guydecologists

949
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 6: for my appointment, and I know it sounds silly because

950
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 6: I was eighteen at the time, but I always my

951
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 6: mom goes with me, so my mom was there and

952
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 6: he asked in front of my mom even if something

953
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 6: had happened to me physically, so of course then the

954
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 6: conversation got brought up with my mom. So I did

955
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 6: see a counselor after that. But actually here as of lately,

956
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 6: just with stuff going on with my daughter, I got

957
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 6: back into therapy online and it's been very resourceful for

958
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 6: me with everything going on. But here lately we've started

959
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 6: to like dig deeper into the past. So I think now,

960
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 6: especially talking with you guys, I think it would be

961
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 6: a good idea to bring it up.

962
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, yes, yes, definitely.

963
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: And you're going to be a better mom for it also,

964
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 2: you know, dealing with your trauma, getting it out of

965
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: your body, being empowered, you know, which is what you

966
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: need to be as a mother and as a woman.

967
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 6: Thank you. I appreciate that, because the most important thing

968
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 6: to me is to make sure I raise her to

969
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 6: be strong and a good woman and that she doesn't

970
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 6: let I hope she doesn't let anything go on with

971
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 6: her like I did.

972
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 4: I should have.

973
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 6: I feel like I should have fought back a little

974
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 6: bit more, but I know it wasn't on me, it

975
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 6: was on him.

976
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 4: But still the situation was.

977
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't know what you're going to do

978
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: in those situations, people are in shock. Don't beat yourself

979
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: up for that. You don't know what you're going to

980
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: do in a situation, and you know when you're taking

981
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 2: off guard. You can't be responsible for your actions in

982
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: that moment, you know, so absolutely, But thank you for

983
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: calling in and I hope that was helpful.

984
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 4: Thank you absolutely, it was.

985
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, and it was a pleasure talking

986
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 6: with you all and meeting you all very much.

987
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 4: Thanks a Laura, Thank you.

988
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: By Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be

989
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 3: back with a final question.

990
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, and we're back.

991
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: We are back, Lindsey says dear Chelsea. I don't know

992
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 3: if I should stay married. I've been with my husband

993
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 3: for eight years, married for one and we have two

994
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: little kids, two and four. I also have an older stepdaughter.

995
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: About seven months ago, I had a very sudden overnight

996
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 3: awakening where I suddenly felt like all the small all

997
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: things about my relationship i'd ignored became big issues for me.

998
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 3: For example, my husband doesn't really have any friends. If

999
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 3: we do things socially, I plan or get the invite

1000
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: and he comes along. He doesn't have a separate social

1001
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: life at all. I'm very driven. I'm an ambitious person

1002
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 3: with lots of goals. I recently asked him what his

1003
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: goals were for the future, and he didn't have a

1004
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 3: single one. Nothing more than what it is now. This

1005
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 3: is okay. I think it's just wildly different from me.

1006
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 3: When I talk about my goals, he says, oh, you're

1007
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 3: just gonna leave me behind one day. I'm scared to

1008
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 3: stay small in order to keep the peace at home.

1009
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 3: He's a wonderful dad, and he takes care of his

1010
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 3: share of things around the house, but as usual, I

1011
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 3: do more than fifty percent of the kid's stuff. We

1012
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 3: also don't communicate at times. We don't say a single

1013
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 3: word before he leaves the house in the morning. He

1014
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: doesn't ask me questions or engage in things I have

1015
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 3: going on. Basically, we're not active participants in each other's lives.

1016
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 3: We cohabitat raise kids together, but are not connected. And

1017
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 3: I am craving communication. I love to talk and have

1018
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 3: deep conversations, and I feel very deprived of that. I've

1019
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 3: explained to him how lonely I feel and how unhappy

1020
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 3: I am at times. We have couples therapy scheduled, and

1021
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 3: I feel heartbroken by the idea of splitting my kids.

1022
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 3: I also know there's an issue because I have feelings

1023
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 3: for someone else. This is the second person in a

1024
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 3: handful of months I have met and felt feelings for.

1025
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: There's nothing happening there at all. I just feel strongly

1026
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 3: for someone else, which feels important in this situation. The

1027
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: problem seems to be that I'm settling for good and

1028
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 3: dreaming of great It's very hard to choose to leave

1029
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 3: a good man with a decent job, who's a great dad.

1030
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 3: I'm terrified of the dating world and of heartbreak. I

1031
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 3: just don't know what to do or how to do it.

1032
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: I'm really afraid of making a huge mistake. Thanks so

1033
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: much for reading, Lindsey.

1034
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: That seems to be such a recurring theme, right, the

1035
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: idea that they want something better, but they're also scared

1036
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: to go get it.

1037
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 4: So you know they are eight years together when you're married,

1038
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 4: and my first question is Lindsey, How did you meet

1039
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 4: and what drew you to this man? I mean, what's

1040
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 4: the origin story? Obviously he would not have said this

1041
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 4: when you when you met him, So what drew you

1042
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 4: to him? What was it? And where did you come

1043
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 4: from before that he was the person that you chose

1044
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 4: at that moment. I think that that would give me

1045
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 4: a lot of information in terms of where she's landing

1046
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 4: at this moment, because often the very things that one's

1047
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 4: complaining about are the same things that one found initially attractive.

1048
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 4: You know, he was stable, he was a good dad,

1049
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 4: he was reliable, he was there for me. And this

1050
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 4: may probably come on the heels of I was in

1051
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 4: another relationship that was unstable, that was not reliable. You know,

1052
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: there's a yin yang in our lives about this. So

1053
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 4: this is the first thing. And then I have a

1054
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 4: sense that it may be a coincidence that the seven

1055
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 4: months ago when this lady woke up, this woman woke up,

1056
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 4: is also the seven months when she met this new

1057
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 4: person that she has feelings for. You know, these things

1058
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 4: are often well timed, and so at this moment, what

1059
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 4: are these new feelings or at these feelings that have

1060
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 4: taken on a new intensity because you are flirting in

1061
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: your mind with the idea of another person. And then

1062
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 4: this notion that you're going to capos therapy but you

1063
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 4: hate to break up your family. You're not going to

1064
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 4: copos therapy to break up your family, but you may

1065
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 4: be going to cople therape to understand that the man

1066
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 4: you are with now is the man you've always been with,

1067
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 4: and that this is about also coming to terms with

1068
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 4: your choice. No, he may not be any mootor he

1069
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 4: may be more on a spectrum more. He may be

1070
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 4: not a person who has great ambitions, but he is

1071
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: a person who will support your ambitions, and that is

1072
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 4: a perfectly valuable platform as well. He will be there

1073
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 4: so that you can go out into the world and

1074
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 4: he will accompany you, and he won't argue where you

1075
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 4: ask him to come. You may want someone who has

1076
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 4: their own life and their own initiatives and all of that.

1077
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 4: Did he have them when you met? Did he forego

1078
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 4: them in order to solidify his connection with It's like

1079
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 4: there's a few pieces of information here that would help

1080
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 4: say this is the direction or that this is not

1081
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 4: about I'm willing to let go of good for great

1082
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 4: is I don't think that this is a question about

1083
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 4: how can I optimize and maximize my life. This is

1084
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 4: fundamentally about you're coming to terms with the choice you

1085
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 4: made that you may or may not have acknowledged to

1086
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 4: yourself from day one.

1087
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 2: You know, I think a lot of people feel this way.

1088
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: Be careful what you wish for. Right You could be

1089
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: in a relationship with somebody who has a million things

1090
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: going on, and then you could feel ignored and invisible

1091
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: and that.

1092
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 1: You're not getting enough from that person.

1093
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: So it's like there is this feeling of the grass

1094
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: is always greener as there are like with couples, you

1095
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 2: know they get to this.

1096
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 4: It took my sentence away. I was going to go there,

1097
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 4: and I decided to wait. But yes, it's like you

1098
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 4: know you when you are with someone who is very

1099
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 4: active and has a whole life, the fault line is

1100
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 4: you know you're not available for me. When you are

1101
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 4: with a person who is available for you but doesn't

1102
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 4: have many other things, then it's you know you're too

1103
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 4: dependent on me. In both cases, the question is less

1104
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 4: about this man and more about this woman and the

1105
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 4: nature of her relationship to him, and this idea that

1106
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 4: she has to make herself small in order to maintain

1107
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 4: the peace. No, No, he's not. Probably he's maybe not

1108
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 4: asking that either. If you say, you know, if I

1109
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 4: lift my boat, it lifts all boats. And we are

1110
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 4: going on this together. And what I get from you

1111
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: is the support for my ambitions. That's what matters, not

1112
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 4: does he have his own? You know? What you want

1113
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 4: is to know what he does with yours? Is he

1114
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 4: threatened by it? When he says you made when day

1115
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 4: leave me? Is because you keep telling him that he's

1116
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 4: a bum and you don't really find him interesting or

1117
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 4: attractive because he doesn't have anything pulling him. What's the

1118
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,240
Speaker 4: dialogue that we don't hear here is what I would

1119
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 4: like to understand. And one last thing I would add

1120
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 4: maybe is sometimes your relationship is the source of the nurturance,

1121
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 4: of the happiness of the engagement. But sometimes the relationship

1122
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 4: is more of a scaffolding, and the scaffolding that makes

1123
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 4: it available for you to go into the world and

1124
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 4: to get your food and your nourishment and your engagements

1125
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 4: and your ambitions met there. And those are two viable models.

1126
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 4: It may be that in this instance what's between the

1127
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 4: two of you is less about the intimacy of the

1128
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 4: connection as between what this relationship gives to each of

1129
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 4: you makes possible for both of you in life. And

1130
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 4: that is also a respectable choice, just so you know,

1131
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 4: may not be the one she chooses to make, but

1132
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 4: it is a very common choice. It just is often

1133
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 4: not named like this, but it is a very clear decision.

1134
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: And I also would add looking at counseling as an opportunity,

1135
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: not as a failure, like you're going to go to

1136
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: counseling and there's a huge opportunity for growth there between

1137
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: you and your partner, reconnecting and finding rediscovering each other

1138
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: in a way that you had it before. It's an

1139
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 2: opportunity for your partner to gain a better understanding of

1140
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 2: what you're feeling and how you're feeling and how you're

1141
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: feeling seen and what you.

1142
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: Want from him.

1143
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: And if at the end of all of that, you

1144
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: guys don't get together and get stronger, then you have

1145
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: a very kind of clear path forward that it's not what.

1146
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: You're looking for.

1147
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 2: You know, if you're distracted by other people during your marriage,

1148
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 2: I don't think that's an uncommon theme. I think it's

1149
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: a matter of is that distraction like a yearning to

1150
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 2: be out of your marriage or is it simply a distraction.

1151
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very clear, like as you were reading

1152
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 2: this letter that you were going to mention you had

1153
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: a crush on somebody at some point.

1154
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 1: Because that's what was you know, we've asked.

1155
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 2: Both of us were like, ah, yeah, but just look

1156
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: at counseling is huge. It's a huge opportunity for growth

1157
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: within yourself, within your marriage, and for your partner. So

1158
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 2: look at everything as an advantage. The more knowledge you have,

1159
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: the better you are making a decision. And if your

1160
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: marriage can survive this, then you're going to be stronger

1161
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 2: for it. And if you do decide to split, then

1162
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: that's okay too. Then you can go pursue all.

1163
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: Of these things you're talking about.

1164
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 2: Hopefully you can pursue them within your marriage by just

1165
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 2: having a better line of communication and understanding of each other.

1166
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 4: I think I would add another piece to it as well, Chelseae,

1167
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 4: is that what I'm not hearing enough is a basic

1168
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 4: appreciation for the man, for the person, for what he represents,

1169
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 4: not for what he does, not for the fifty percent,

1170
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 4: but for who he is, for the love he brings,

1171
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 4: for the care, the attention, the reliability. All these things

1172
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 4: are actually very big things if your relationship will disintegrate

1173
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 4: if it becomes a relationship where two people are basically

1174
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 4: criticizing each other and pointing only at the shortcomings and

1175
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 4: the failures and the gaps rather than and take for

1176
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: granted what is and only highlight what's missing. And that

1177
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 4: piece is something I hope you develop in and cultivating

1178
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 4: the couple's therapy and in you know, people want to

1179
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 4: know that they matter, that they mean something, that they're there,

1180
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 4: and that their presence is appreciated and not that their

1181
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 4: presence is evaluated and measured.

1182
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's for sure.

1183
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: Okay, well, good luck with that situation and thank you

1184
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: as Stair. So your course on conflict, how can people

1185
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 2: sign up for that?

1186
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 4: Rate to the website Esteraparil dot com. Is the couple

1187
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 4: of course. It's called Turning Conflict into Connection. Where should

1188
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 4: we begin? You all know it's the podcast. It's on

1189
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 4: Apple and on vox and anywhere you listen to your

1190
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 4: podcasts with the subscription on Apple, and it is basically this,

1191
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 4: it's live couples Therapy. It's what we've been doing together,

1192
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 4: is the podcast. It's live relationship therapy with individuals and

1193
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 4: couples where you fly on the wall listening in on

1194
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,439
Speaker 4: the sessions of others and where should we begin the game.

1195
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 4: It's also on my website and on Amazon, And that's

1196
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 4: how do you actually It's the tool for communication to

1197
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 4: establish connection, curiosity, trust, playfulness in your relationships by having

1198
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 4: very beautiful questions that lead to storytelling, not to answers,

1199
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 4: but to storytelling, because relationships are stories.

1200
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: Wonderful.

1201
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: Your husband must be like he must lose any sort

1202
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 2: of argument at any time that you guys have had.

1203
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: I mean, how can you be married to someone like

1204
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 2: you and stay at your ground?

1205
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: He must have to defer to you on everything. It's

1206
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: the ultimate position to be in, you.

1207
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 4: Think you think for decades later? No, no, no, I

1208
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 4: have someone who but I'll tell you you goes a

1209
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,919
Speaker 4: long way as you know. Yeah, okay, so one way

1210
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 4: to deflate me completely is to make me laugh. That

1211
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 4: quite me?

1212
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: Ye, that works for me as well for my future lovers. Anyway,

1213
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 2: thank you Snare for being on our podcast today as pleasure.

1214
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1215
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 3: Thank you Bothay take care theare Chelsea. Do you have

1216
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,919
Speaker 3: some new dates for us? Oh?

1217
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: You know, I do you know, I do. I have

1218
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: a lot of We added lots.

1219
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 2: Of Canadian cities, Canadians, I'm coming.

1220
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: We added about fifteen new tour dates.

1221
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 2: I'm coming to Denver again, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Richmond, Virginia,

1222
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 2: Santa Rosa, California, Gary and Deanna, Baltimore, Verona, New York,

1223
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 2: and about seven dates in Canada. So go to Chelseahandler

1224
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: dot com. I am performing everywhere. I will be on

1225
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 2: tour all for the rest of the year and through December,

1226
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 2: and then next year I'm going to be touring all year.

1227
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: So come and get it, you guys. It's good times and.

1228
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 2: It's a very much needed reprieve from all the fucking

1229
00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 2: madness that's going on in this world.

1230
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: So I'm here to bring joy and sunshine.

1231
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 4: Do you have a.

1232
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 3: Holiday themed question for Chelsea? Please send us all the

1233
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 3: questions you need answered about crazy family get togethers, arguing

1234
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 3: over which Cranberry sauce recipe to us, and all your

1235
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 3: holiday drama. Just send your questions to Dear Chelsea podcast

1236
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 3: at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered

1237
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: by Brad Dickard, executive producer Catherine Law and be sure

1238
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 3: to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com