Speaker 1: Welcome to Bullyball, presented by DraftKings. I am Rachel Nichols.
Speaker 1: That always is mister DeMarcus Cousins still in Taiwan, and
Speaker 1: you can tell because he has no plant and that
Speaker 1: makes me very sad.
Speaker 2: Fortunately we have Region Rondo with us again.
Speaker 1: Who is a beautiful You're giving us a beautiful tour
Speaker 1: of your house. Basically every episode we get a different view.
Speaker 1: It's a nice crib. Man.
Speaker 2: I'm impressed, is all I gotta say.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it, Thank you, Rachel.
Speaker 2: But you're gonna step it up over there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying, man, I'm trying. I think don't owe
Speaker 3: me a little money anyway, But we'll talk about that
Speaker 3: another time. What you say, I think you a little
Speaker 3: bridge from my last Blue Ery game. I could be wrong.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna check my notes. Years I was your teammate. Man,
Speaker 3: don't matter.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, Man, you owe me.
Speaker 3: I've never pity your book. That's not true. You.
Speaker 4: I think I got a little section of the house
Speaker 4: over here with your name on. Actually, that's cool and
Speaker 4: we can settle with that.
Speaker 3: Then. I'm cool.
Speaker 2: You donated, that's why the rooms are so nice.
Speaker 3: But years I was cud.
Speaker 4: It was like, you dog, you're sweet as okay.
Speaker 1: And no one of you is in a palatial estate
Speaker 1: and the other one has a giant door behind him.
Speaker 2: You know whatever, whatever it is.
Speaker 3: That door from, Uh, that's a special wood. So don't
Speaker 3: get it twisted, all right, all right, all right, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna let you know where it was shipped from. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do That's what I looked like. Yeah whatever.
Speaker 1: I was going to make this an interior decorating podcast,
Speaker 1: but instead let's talk about some NBA.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 1: We gotta talk the best series of this round Denver, Minnesota.
Speaker 1: After dropping the two first games at home, a lot
Speaker 1: of people just bearing them. After those couple of games,
Speaker 1: the Nuggets came back even the series. This was a
Speaker 1: crazy weekend in Minnesota, and look, I know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen here in Denver is not out of the woods.
Speaker 1: Only five teams in the history of the NBA have
Speaker 1: ever gone down two at home and then come back
Speaker 1: to win a best of seven, so the mountain is
Speaker 1: very steep still for them. Minnesota obviously exceptional and Edwards
Speaker 1: again another forty point plus game, so they are still
Speaker 1: super dangerous. But it does feel like the Nuggets took
Speaker 1: something back in this series that they figured something else
Speaker 1: out Jamal Murray. They had a few days break. Every
Speaker 1: series has a little bit of a break at some point,
Speaker 1: and this was where the Minnesota Denver one was right
Speaker 1: before they went into Minnesota. So I think Jamal Murray
Speaker 1: looked healthier, just looked better. And obviously Aaron Gordon made
Speaker 1: a huge impact on both of them games, but particularly
Speaker 1: in Game four, I thought Michael Malone had some great
Speaker 1: strategy there. Took Aaron Gordon a bit out of the
Speaker 1: dunker spot, made Gober run around a bit more on
Speaker 1: the perimeter. But overall to the feel of this team, Boogie,
Speaker 1: it just felt like a team that knew what it
Speaker 1: had to do in those big moments in Minnesota, man
Speaker 1: just got overwhelmed a few times.
Speaker 3: Right, Absolutely, I think we're seeing the difference between a
Speaker 3: championship veteran team and a young team that's trying to
Speaker 3: figure it out. Obviously, Minnesota found some success early on
Speaker 3: in the series. I'm not going to take away the
Speaker 3: fact that I think they're a great team, which I
Speaker 3: still think there are, But on the flip side of things,
Speaker 3: when it comes to Denver, they show They've shown that
Speaker 3: they have another level that they can go to, and
Speaker 3: you know, that's what we've seen in the last two
Speaker 3: games from this series. So with that being said, obviously
Speaker 3: coach Malone has made some adjustments. You said, when it
Speaker 3: comes to Aaron Gordon moving him around the floor, I
Speaker 3: don't I don't like to to be the dead horse,
Speaker 3: but when it comes to a three time defensive Player
Speaker 3: of the Year that I'm gonna need a little more.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna need a little more on the defensive end,
Speaker 3: a whole lot more. Excuse me, excuse me, Yeah, four
Speaker 3: time defensive Player of the Year. You look at the
Speaker 3: defensive numbers, is you know, it's one point three blocks
Speaker 3: a game. And then I looked at the other side
Speaker 3: and I look at the Who's a guy who isn't
Speaker 3: even considered defensive a defensive player, but he's averaging about
Speaker 3: one point eight blocks a game, almost two steals a game.
Speaker 3: So I'm just not really understanding the narrative or the
Speaker 3: impact that everybody is seeing from this so called, you know,
Speaker 3: generational defender. So obviously I feel like it needs to
Speaker 3: be it needs to be more from that from that end,
Speaker 3: on the on the Minnesota side. But at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, this isn't you know, the reigning champs.
Speaker 3: They've been here before, they've seen they They're a well
Speaker 3: seasoned team. They've been through a lot of adversity. They've
Speaker 3: been on the losing side of things, they've been on
Speaker 3: the winning side of things, so they've they've seen it
Speaker 3: all when it comes to being at this stage, and
Speaker 3: we're now seeing a young team that's figuring it out
Speaker 3: and they're now starting to hit their adversity so or
Speaker 3: you could say growing pain. So I think that's the
Speaker 3: difference in the series. Obviously, Jamal Murray's stepping up and
Speaker 3: playing at the level that we're customed to seeing at
Speaker 3: this time of year from him. That helps Denver tremendously.
Speaker 3: Aaron Gordon stepping up, playing the way he played in
Speaker 3: the last game, and you know that's the results of
Speaker 3: those guys stepping up. And on the other side of things,
Speaker 3: you're gonna need more than just Anthony Evers scoring forty
Speaker 3: points in the game. He's gonna need more production from
Speaker 3: the guys around him. Cat didn't have the greatest shooting night.
Speaker 3: We're gonna need more production from him. We in order
Speaker 3: for them to find success in this series. Cat's gonna
Speaker 3: have to average at least eighteen to twenty two a
Speaker 3: game per night. So it's definitely gonna need on the Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Minnesota side of things, they're definitely gonna have to step
Speaker 3: up from a production standpoint. Obviously, Kat offensively, the generational
Speaker 3: defender definitely has to step up. And you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't he I don't see it. I don't see it.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, like, and this is no hate, this is
Speaker 3: no knock, Like I'm a fan of this game. I've
Speaker 3: played against Ben Wallace, I've played against like generational defenders
Speaker 3: like I've played against ron Our Test Uh, guys that
Speaker 3: are known for defense. And it's just it don't hit.
Speaker 3: It's same, it just doesn't And and I don't understand
Speaker 3: his narrative because it's got to be a narrative at
Speaker 3: this point, it's not a factual thing. It has to
Speaker 3: be a narrative. I don't see it. Give me your thoughts, though, you.
Speaker 4: Hit it on the head, but I'm not gonna put
Speaker 4: it all on Rudy. I think it's a hell of
Speaker 4: a coaching adjustment from alone. Uh, you know, I love
Speaker 4: seeing coaches make these type of adjustments during these type
Speaker 4: of series. Uh down, oh two. But again, defend the champions.
Speaker 4: You can never count out the champs. You know, the
Speaker 4: heart of a champion, what a champion has been through
Speaker 4: as far as adversity, next to being down this series,
Speaker 4: being able to stick together, figure out, I find a
Speaker 4: solution to these problems. Starts with Jamal Murray. I think
Speaker 4: he's kind of figured it out. He's just he's a
Speaker 4: tough shot maker, man. I mean, he hit a hell
Speaker 4: of a couple of shots yesterday.
Speaker 2: That shot, that shot that he hit right before halftime,
Speaker 2: my good.
Speaker 4: Not the bus, but I'm talking about the one. McDaniel's
Speaker 4: played a great defense. He was like two stakes on
Speaker 4: the shot clock. I mean, it's just he's a fun
Speaker 4: player to watch. You know, he's electrifying. I'm sure pus
Speaker 4: hours and hours on his craft. And again he struggled
Speaker 4: his first two games, but then he figured it out.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was help or not.
Speaker 4: I just feel like it was an adjustment getting used
Speaker 4: to guys that really actually take pride of defense and
Speaker 4: wanted every possession. So I'm not saying he has completely
Speaker 4: figured it out again because we have three games left.
Speaker 4: But uh, he's in a great rhythm, I'm sure, and
Speaker 4: he's going he's feeling good at going back to Denver.
Speaker 4: I want to see what a coach fan does. You know,
Speaker 4: he's a great coach. I had him in New Orleans
Speaker 4: offensive mindset. Uh, so I will don't see what he's
Speaker 4: going to do adjustment wise. Carlkin Towns can't shoot five
Speaker 4: for eighteen from the field. Goldbert can't just give you
Speaker 4: eleven points, So I think you have to insert more
Speaker 4: nas reed. You know, he didn't play a lot last
Speaker 4: last game, last couple, I believe, and that's been cuzed
Speaker 4: guys from day one. So kudos the Cubs for seeing
Speaker 4: that long time ago. But again he has to play
Speaker 4: because again, who else is going to score?
Speaker 3: To basketball?
Speaker 4: You know, Mike Conley gave him a solid lift as
Speaker 4: far as the starting PG. You know, Edwards hit forty,
Speaker 4: But after that, you know they're running McDaniels off the line,
Speaker 4: you know, waiting on the young fella off the bench,
Speaker 4: Alexander to get back to a good rhythm. You know,
Speaker 4: they need to spark from him as well. So it's
Speaker 4: gonna take a team effort. You know, Anthony Erways did
Speaker 4: apologize for Game three, but but you know, like I said,
Speaker 4: he came out Game four ded what he had to do,
Speaker 4: but it wasn't enough as far as a team impact.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: And back to what coach because of saying about Rudy,
Speaker 4: he doesn't have a defensive presidence out there. Uh, he's
Speaker 4: not able to do what Nasrie does as far as
Speaker 4: picking joker up causing you know, turnovers, like I said,
Speaker 4: he hasn't.
Speaker 3: He looks really comfortable.
Speaker 4: Uh, the Jokers, you know, boding the ship out of him,
Speaker 4: shooting floater shots and he's getting everything he wants and
Speaker 4: still being a great facilitating the quarterback on the court.
Speaker 4: So uh, he's not causing any disruptive on either side
Speaker 4: of the ball. And then also they made and like
Speaker 4: I said, Melone did a hell of a job by
Speaker 4: Corral and Anthony verwas at the top making him throw
Speaker 4: the pocket pass, making Rudy go Bert turned into Draymond Green,
Speaker 4: which we saw yesterday had five turnovers.
Speaker 3: So that's gonna be tough. Now if you give no.
Speaker 4: Read that ball right there, he's a hell of it.
Speaker 4: He's a way better play maker than go Bert. So
Speaker 4: for me, it's not just offensively not being able to
Speaker 4: block shouts or change things also offensively as well, because
Speaker 4: because again if he's having to be the playmaker when
Speaker 4: it's when it's setting picks with him, they're living with that,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like he's not aggressive enough,
Speaker 4: he can't get to the rim, and if you know,
Speaker 4: he's not shooting over eighty I think or eighty five
Speaker 4: from the freeo line. So it's kind of a lose
Speaker 4: lose for them to put the ball in his hands
Speaker 4: in the middle of the court. And that's where again
Speaker 4: kudos to coach Malone.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the problem with Defensive Player of
Speaker 1: the Year being a regular season award because if you
Speaker 1: look at the regular season numbers, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: because they're not there in the playoffs because level of
Speaker 1: competition rises and different things get exposed. But it is
Speaker 1: a regular season award, and when you have to play
Speaker 1: every team in the league, well, go go tell me, no.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say that they're not better than Winby. I mean,
Speaker 4: his his numbers aren't, you know, better than the rookie
Speaker 4: of the year. So it's like, wow, numbers, but it's
Speaker 4: like he has a better team defensive mindset, like you know,
Speaker 4: you got them dogs on the wings, you got a
Speaker 4: leader in the pack like Andy Edwards, Like, yeah, your
Speaker 4: team is going to be a better defensive team.
Speaker 3: But it's individual war. So I don't get it.
Speaker 1: No, you're right.
Speaker 2: I mean, for me with it was a little bit
Speaker 2: of like, go ahead, well I was saying.
Speaker 1: For me with Wemby, it was a little bit of
Speaker 1: it took him a couple of months to get his
Speaker 1: feet under him defensively in the league, and I just
Speaker 1: sort of felt like, great, I think from here on out. Frankly,
Speaker 1: I mean I can almost fill it out now that
Speaker 1: I'll be voting for Wemby for the next however many
Speaker 1: years for Defensive Player of the Year, but like the
Speaker 1: beginning of the season counts too, So that's kind of
Speaker 1: where I was on that. But I do feel a
Speaker 1: little bit as a voter, it's always hard because you
Speaker 1: can only vote on what they put in front of you,
Speaker 1: and you're voting on the regular season, and that's what
Speaker 1: you have to do, and yet I know what happens
Speaker 1: to the playoffs. It's not like I'm not watching every season, right,
Speaker 1: So it's it's just it's a hard thing, and I
Speaker 1: get it. I get the frustration from other players because
Speaker 1: when a guy is tested, you're not seeing it from
Speaker 1: Rudy Gobert in the postseason, I get it, not once.
Speaker 3: And that's where it's just like, I don't and it
Speaker 3: would be it will be. It's crazy. Yeah, it would
Speaker 3: be more understandable if it was you know, maybe he
Speaker 3: got one, you know, defensive player. We're talking, get it,
Speaker 3: so that puts him in a category of the elite
Speaker 3: of the elite.
Speaker 1: And when I know and by the way, he is not,
Speaker 1: he is not Hakm and we all know it, even
Speaker 1: the people voting.
Speaker 3: So it's now becoming a narrative and it's not really factual,
Speaker 3: like we keep awarding this guy for regular season and
Speaker 3: and me and you can speak on us. When it
Speaker 3: comes to regular season, most of the time, the good
Speaker 3: teams are going through the motions. You just go through
Speaker 3: the motions. You do the same thing every night, which
Speaker 3: produces the wins. Cool playoff come. You have to become
Speaker 3: a player everybody knows and I have yet to see it.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it. So why do we keep awarding
Speaker 3: this guy for a bullshit ass regular season? I don't
Speaker 3: I don't understand it.
Speaker 4: I just feel it has to for me, it's a
Speaker 4: team award because I say this, Kevin won Depens Player
Speaker 4: the Year, but Kevin, it was me, per Tony Allen
Speaker 4: Posey on the floor. I mean, Kevin was our anchor,
Speaker 4: no doubt about it.
Speaker 3: He deserved it. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 4: But again, having a team around you that that prize
Speaker 4: thatself on defense, your numbers look better.
Speaker 3: Like I get it, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2: But if number one defense this season.
Speaker 3: Jaylor MC doesn't get considered he's one of the best
Speaker 3: wing defenders in the league. He didn't even get considered
Speaker 3: Anthony Edwards like he's a dog on the defensive as
Speaker 3: always defense. I don't understand why this kid when not
Speaker 3: even a kid, this is a grown ass man. Why
Speaker 3: Rudy goverkeep getting read for being this great fucking defender
Speaker 3: And I've never I've never seen his defense changing entire series.
Speaker 3: I've never seen it one time. I've never seen it.
Speaker 1: I want to flip this back to Aaron Gordon because
Speaker 1: you mentioned Cat his defense on KAT last night.
Speaker 2: I thought made a big difference. Yes, so there are people.
Speaker 4: The ex factor and he always has been since they
Speaker 4: were winning.
Speaker 3: Like if he played, he goes, they go he can't shoot.
Speaker 4: I think he last week game he shot sixteenth nineteen
Speaker 4: from the field, like it just yeah, you can't allow that.
Speaker 2: Damny fishing like he's working last night, right and.
Speaker 3: He was three to four last game, you know. I
Speaker 3: mean he's he's he's put the work in.
Speaker 4: But again, he can't have that type of impact on
Speaker 4: the game and expect to win, especially when Yoaka's doing
Speaker 4: this thing, Murry's getting hot, Like, I mean, you just
Speaker 4: you have to shut one of those guys down. And
Speaker 4: for me, I think he might be the IM not
Speaker 4: gonna say.
Speaker 3: The easiest, but he will be the easiest out of
Speaker 3: those three guys. Me. It is what it is.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't see something that happens before halftime have
Speaker 1: an impact on a playoff game that often. But there
Speaker 1: was an eight point swing in just the last few
Speaker 1: seconds the of the second quarter that I felt the
Speaker 1: Timberwolves did not recover from. It will be interesting to
Speaker 1: see if that even carries over in terms of their
Speaker 1: mental state and how they feel going into this game
Speaker 1: of just like every time they think they feel they've
Speaker 1: got Denver where they want them, you know, in these
Speaker 1: last couple of games, Yokich has led them to some
Speaker 1: sort of Houdini act, and then Murray chips in, and
Speaker 1: then Gordon chips in, And that is what Denver did
Speaker 1: to teams all like great, that is what Denver did
Speaker 1: to teams all last postseason was you know, they're a
Speaker 1: little deceptive sometimes and then when crunch time comes, they
Speaker 1: just have so many ways to hurt you and are
Speaker 1: so organized and so just coolly efficient, and just nobody is.
Speaker 1: They's just unflappable. Nobody is losing their temper. So I'm
Speaker 1: interested to see what happens there. I do want to
Speaker 1: keep an eye on Jamal Murray's calf to see where
Speaker 1: that ends up, because I do think a little rest
Speaker 1: break helped them, and they're not going to have that
Speaker 1: the rest of the way. But but we will see.
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Speaker 2: Plus.
Speaker 1: We're going to move on to some other series here.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling the Rudio Gobert conversation is going
Speaker 1: to keep coming up.
Speaker 2: But well, right there, let's talk a little nixt pacers.
Speaker 1: We've been talking about the minutes that the Knicks have
Speaker 1: been playing for this entire playoff run, and it does
Speaker 1: seem to be catching up with them. The Pacers obviously
Speaker 1: the team to push them because the pace they play,
Speaker 1: with the depth they have, do you guys think that
Speaker 1: this is recoverable for New York because they do have
Speaker 1: a little their own skalsle quirk is interesting. They have
Speaker 1: to turn right around and play the next game, game five,
Speaker 1: on Tuesday nights, so it's still at every other pace,
Speaker 1: but it's at the garden, and you do get this
Speaker 1: incredible energy left from playing an MSG, and the role
Speaker 1: players play well and all that stuff, and they might
Speaker 1: actually have to depend on a role player or two
Speaker 1: with the with the minutes putting on these other guys.
Speaker 1: They also Tips finally sat his guys down at the
Speaker 1: end of game four, where he was just like, great,
Speaker 1: this game is out of hand. So Josh Hart, who'd
Speaker 1: been playing forty eight minutes a game, didn't have to
Speaker 1: do that. These guys got a little bit less mileage
Speaker 1: on their bodies at the end of game four. So
Speaker 1: you've got Nick's crowd, You've got a little maybe a
Speaker 1: little more energy for game five, and then you have
Speaker 1: the extra day break in that series going into Game
Speaker 1: six in Indiana. So it's just interesting the schedule could
Speaker 1: help the Knicks a little here. Maybe I don't know,
Speaker 1: or do you guys feel like no og annobie. It
Speaker 1: looks like again for game five and Boog at some
Speaker 1: point you might not have the horses.
Speaker 3: When it comes to a hamstring injury, one, usually that's
Speaker 3: a sign of fatigue. Two that's not an injury that's
Speaker 3: just easy to come back from. You can't rest two
Speaker 3: three days and just come back on a hamstring. A
Speaker 3: hamstring injury, a strain and cash. Those type injuries take weeks,
Speaker 3: like it's a period of time where you just have
Speaker 3: to sit and do nothing. So I just and you know,
Speaker 3: hopefully he does come back, but even if he does,
Speaker 3: I just don't see him coming back being the same
Speaker 3: type of effective player that we you know, seen early
Speaker 3: on in this series. And we spoke on this earlier
Speaker 3: when it comes to the Knicks and TIBs and his
Speaker 3: coaching style and the way he goes about you know,
Speaker 3: his teams is history repeats itself. You know, we've seen
Speaker 3: this time and time again where eventually his teams run
Speaker 3: out of gas and it's now coming to the point
Speaker 3: where he does have to depend on the bench, and
Speaker 3: I think it can get a little tricky because you
Speaker 3: don't want to lose your guys at the end of
Speaker 3: the bench throughout a playoff series. And that's easy to
Speaker 3: do once they feel like they're not, you know, ever
Speaker 3: gonna play. Are really a part of what's going on.
Speaker 3: So to expect, you know, anybody to kind of come
Speaker 3: in and just, you know, have this burst advantagy, it's
Speaker 3: just not really real listed. And on top of that,
Speaker 3: I mean, Burks is a score, He's always been one.
Speaker 3: But is that going to change a series for the Knicks.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe not. But it's more so going to the
Speaker 3: style of coaching where it's relying on seven guys in
Speaker 3: the entire playoffs. It's just it's just not a realistic thing.
Speaker 3: That's it's just a lot not a formula of success
Speaker 3: in my five guys guys.
Speaker 2: But it's been a little necessity.
Speaker 1: I'm going to defend TIBs a little bit here in
Speaker 1: that during the regular season he actually did not do
Speaker 1: the wear these guys down thing. I have the number here.
Speaker 1: There's no Nick ranked in the top ten in minutes
Speaker 1: a game during the regular season, so they had a
Speaker 1: bunch of injuries. You know, guys played a lot because
Speaker 1: of the injuries, but it wasn't the sort of typical
Speaker 1: what we criticized tips for I'm just gonna play you
Speaker 1: no matter what and run guys into the ground on
Speaker 1: individual minutes. However, in the playoffs has been running the
Speaker 1: guys into the ground in individual minutes. But it's because
Speaker 1: you don't have guys, right, I mean, Julius Randall And
Speaker 1: it goes down the list from there, and I feel
Speaker 1: like guys drop like flies every day. Mitchell's gone, Og
Speaker 1: seems to be gone. I mean, there's just there's so
Speaker 1: many guys where they don't have anymore, so you got
Speaker 1: to play them the way they are. And Jalen Brunson
Speaker 1: is obviously hurt. Again, here's another set of numbers for you.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious though, like where this affects you, just
Speaker 1: shooting wise and all the stuff.
Speaker 2: As a point guard.
Speaker 1: Over the two games in Indiana, our friend Brian Windhorse
Speaker 1: had a great stat in the story he wrote of
Speaker 1: the game. He said Brunson missed ten of his jumpers
Speaker 1: short and that according to the tracking software they have,
Speaker 1: he was jumping two and a half inches lower on
Speaker 1: his shots than he did during the season. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a great stat in Brian's story.
Speaker 2: What does that do to you?
Speaker 4: He's right on the head. I mean, that's fatigue.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: He's a jump shooter maker, jump shot maker and not
Speaker 4: having your legs, not having their proper rest and being
Speaker 4: able to obeit, having to make pretty much every play
Speaker 4: with his ess and they're wearing his ass down, you know.
Speaker 4: And and give kudos to to Rick Carlisle. He he's
Speaker 4: doing a hell of the job.
Speaker 3: How hard was that though? To say, not hard at all?
Speaker 4: I mean college spaders bag, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I think it's a really good coach. He's makes hell
Speaker 4: of adjustments. And again like with him switching Nate Smith
Speaker 4: on the Brunton, I mean, they're wearing him down. And
Speaker 4: like I said, he probably you know, I mean, he's
Speaker 4: he's waking up thinking about Brunston and obviously trying to
Speaker 4: be the guy that slows him down and stops from
Speaker 4: everybody seeing you know, him being compared to Jordan and
Speaker 4: know Nick ever has done you know this and that.
Speaker 4: But guys take pride of that, you know, seeing guys
Speaker 4: have those type of you know, numbers pop up and
Speaker 4: when you cried yourself on defense. I know a guy
Speaker 4: like myself, I took those challenges. You know, when Jamie
Speaker 4: Lynn came in going crazy, I wanted to be the
Speaker 4: guy to stop him.
Speaker 3: So it seems like Nasmith's took that challenge. Uh.
Speaker 4: And again fatigue plays a factor being coaching adjustments making factor.
Speaker 3: And this patience team we've seen.
Speaker 4: They went down to Milwaukee and responded and then went down
Speaker 4: to Nicks responding.
Speaker 3: So, like I said, they got a great job in
Speaker 3: the locker room.
Speaker 4: Miles Turners playing well. I mean they're playing well as
Speaker 4: a team, and I think last game, no one played
Speaker 4: over twenty five minutes, so they made to rotate so
Speaker 4: many guys here and there. Understand that Tim has played
Speaker 4: Josh hard, you know x amount of game, ten straight
Speaker 4: games in forty eight minutes. I mean, like you said,
Speaker 4: I could say history peace itself and it's just impossible
Speaker 4: to play. I mean, as much as the guy may
Speaker 4: say he wants to play and he looks good, eventually,
Speaker 4: over time they're in what game eight now eight nine
Speaker 4: in the playoffs, so it's like it's catching up and
Speaker 4: it's showing like that stat that he had with numbers
Speaker 4: about Brunton jumping two inches shorter or whatever too. It's
Speaker 4: whatever shorter, that's serious. And I was watching the game
Speaker 4: live and every shot he took the first like six
Speaker 4: or seven worth short yep.
Speaker 1: Well, Lismith too is just bigger, right, so putting him
Speaker 1: on him And I'm curious, guys, I mean, we see
Speaker 1: this over and over again. The strategy seems to be
Speaker 1: they can't call everything right. They're not going to call
Speaker 1: every single time that he bumps in or plays some
Speaker 1: super physical plays brunts and super physical going down the court.
Speaker 1: First of all, they're picking him up a foot from
Speaker 1: the baseline on the other side, I mean, it is
Speaker 1: clear him out, beat him up, make him every step right.
Speaker 4: Once Dame got going, they did the same thing with
Speaker 4: picking him full court ninety four feet and wearing him down,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like it was.
Speaker 3: They also have a rotation of guys to do it.
Speaker 3: They're not depending on what you got to do it
Speaker 3: bingo nice J mcconalds coming in and doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah man in twenty minutes like in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: That's the difference. That's the difference. Jaynen Brunton is not
Speaker 3: only having to score forty a game just for them
Speaker 3: to have a chance to win it, he's having to
Speaker 3: bring the ball up every single possession against a guy
Speaker 3: guarding him full court. That's that's that's impossible for anybody,
Speaker 3: that's anybody.
Speaker 1: And yet I hear everything you guys are saying. I
Speaker 1: see all the numbers you do. There's no extra bodies
Speaker 1: in the next locker room that are going to pop out, right,
Speaker 1: Will Street's not come? And yet do you feel Indiana
Speaker 1: just has this series now?
Speaker 3: No? I still can't say that. No, I'm saying it's
Speaker 3: I feel like Tibbs is making a job harder for
Speaker 3: them to find success by sticking to this same formula.
Speaker 2: There's nowhere at this point. What are they supposed to do?
Speaker 2: There's no one else? Bug Who are they putting in there?
Speaker 3: Man? Alex Burtch is the hell of a player. I
Speaker 3: think he helps. It shouldn't be to where he's playing
Speaker 3: because they're in a blowout, like Alex burd should be
Speaker 3: on the floor, like I think.
Speaker 1: He played some of the other games. I have to add,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I don't think enough.
Speaker 4: But I don't think they have enoughing we're seeing. It's
Speaker 4: just didn't wear them down. I mean, I know they're
Speaker 4: gonna have the energy when they go back to the Gardens.
Speaker 4: I get that, but the PACER's going to have some
Speaker 4: energy as well. I mean, this is a knockout game,
Speaker 4: and they feel like they can get this one at
Speaker 4: the Garden. They know they're done when they come back
Speaker 4: to Indiana. So I mean that's their I'm sure that's
Speaker 4: their mindset, and that's what I'm sure the message that
Speaker 4: Rick is going to tell these guys, like just winning
Speaker 4: one game, we win this game, they're done.
Speaker 2: They got it.
Speaker 1: They got to try to win game five because, as
Speaker 1: I said, there's there's a little bit of a rest
Speaker 1: break before game six. So I just feel like if
Speaker 1: New York pulls off this gritty Garden goes crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: bonkers game five and they win and they have momentum,
Speaker 1: and then it's a closeout game, and then there's you know,
Speaker 1: the opportunity to have some rest and then close the
Speaker 1: Pacers out in Indiana. I think New York has the
Speaker 1: potential to do that. That's why I don't feel like,
Speaker 1: oh man, this is Indiana series. Now there is a
Speaker 1: window here for New York to win still, even with
Speaker 1: the number of bodies they have, I just the Pacers have.
Speaker 1: The Pacers should win. They're so much healthier. They had
Speaker 1: fifty seven bench points in Game four. And we know
Speaker 1: that role players don't play as well on the road,
Speaker 1: but they're just so much deeper at this point, and
Speaker 1: they should win the series with the way the personnel
Speaker 1: is right now. Just strictly on that. Isaiah Hartenstein I
Speaker 1: think hurt his shoulder in Game four. Also, I mean
Speaker 1: there's just every guy on the next team is banged up.
Speaker 1: But I still I don't know. New York is so
Speaker 1: gritty and that building is it's been so electric.
Speaker 2: I don't know. So I can't say for sure on
Speaker 2: this series.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have a good feeling,
Speaker 1: but I can't say it's going to go right now.
Speaker 3: I do feel, I do feel with Og being you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: probably unquestionable addition to the team right now, that slams
Speaker 3: New York's chance of you know, winning this series. Oh
Speaker 3: G's a big part. Like if he's on the floor,
Speaker 3: I think they have a chance to pull it out
Speaker 3: without him, It's going to be really tough. You think, damnit,
Speaker 3: cheese gonna keep it up. No, you have twenty five.
Speaker 3: I mean that's not sustainable.
Speaker 1: No, no, and he ran out of guess you can
Speaker 1: see the magic start.
Speaker 3: To never twenty five in his life and that's and
Speaker 3: that's my dog. He's never averaged twenty five in his life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, bro, all right, let's talk about the Celtics. Gentlemen.
Speaker 1: For John Ronda, you are up because the Celtics all year,
Speaker 1: they've been doing this all year.
Speaker 2: We've seen it, right, we knew this was going to happen.
Speaker 2: Coming into the playoffs.
Speaker 1: They either win by a lot because they can be
Speaker 1: so overwhelming, or they sometimes look like they're getting bored.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to not give Cleveland credit because
Speaker 1: they're They're a game. Cleveland a lot of ingredients, Right,
Speaker 1: you got to give him credit. I'm sorry, you're getting
Speaker 1: your credit. This isn't just the Celtics couldn't be bothered.
Speaker 1: So Donovan Mitchell has shown again why he is a star.
Speaker 1: I just I'm really interested to see what happens with him,
Speaker 1: not just the summer, but over the course of the
Speaker 1: next few years. I think that there's some good young
Speaker 1: players on that Cavs team and the interior and all
Speaker 1: the advantages they have. But the Celtics should handle this
Speaker 1: series pretty easily, just if you look at the talent
Speaker 1: disparity here. Even with Kris STAPs, porzingis hurt and sometimes
Speaker 1: they don't look like they're focused.
Speaker 2: I don't know what do you think that.
Speaker 4: Is for Seon, it's easy to get complacent and you know,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say, overlook your opponent. But at the same time,
Speaker 4: it feel like you do have it on cruise control,
Speaker 4: being able to hit the button, turn it on and off.
Speaker 4: But same time, you're giving teams confidence and when you
Speaker 4: do that, you know you.
Speaker 3: Could be in a fight for a long time.
Speaker 4: Give even credit though, you know JB's done a hell
Speaker 4: of a job making these adjustments. Star players stepped up,
Speaker 4: role player stepped up for Cleveland Game two. So you know,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to put it all on the Celtics,
Speaker 4: just them overlooking or not respecting their opponent. They came out,
Speaker 4: you know, it's a mismake league. They shot pulling from
Speaker 4: the three and that's what they.
Speaker 1: Rely on themselves.
Speaker 4: And then they did they shot well, so but like
Speaker 4: I said, it's a missmake league. You know, they did
Speaker 4: shoot at thirty five threes and I think game two
Speaker 4: and lost. You know, I think eight for thirty five,
Speaker 4: but if they made six more threes, it might be
Speaker 4: a game, you know.
Speaker 3: So it's just it just depends.
Speaker 4: And defensively they may be taking a step back in
Speaker 4: game two, but again we saw what they how they
Speaker 4: responded on the road Game three in Cleveland, so I
Speaker 4: didn't expect to sweep. You know, even after game one lost,
Speaker 4: I didn't expect a swep from Cleveland. You know, those
Speaker 4: young guys are hungry, theydn't want to fight, and with
Speaker 4: a leader in Donny Bravo, Uh, he showed up and
Speaker 4: stepped out and showed out to in game two.
Speaker 3: So uh, it might be for one.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day that I still
Speaker 4: think Cleveland get another game. And if that happens, I
Speaker 4: don't think it is not to the Celtics. I mean,
Speaker 4: the year we won a championship, we played twenty six
Speaker 4: games to win and we went seven with we went
Speaker 4: seven with Atlanta, I think seven.
Speaker 2: With no I was on so many airplanes for you guys.
Speaker 1: I was like, really, you're going to make us travel
Speaker 1: to this other city just so you can win there,
Speaker 1: just win it home.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we couldn't win on the road our first
Speaker 3: couple series.
Speaker 4: So I said, we went seven both series and were
Speaker 4: still the winning So I think I see a lot
Speaker 4: of similarities and this team as well. I don't think,
Speaker 4: you know, people like expecting them the sweet for all,
Speaker 4: even though they said they're going to they're the favors
Speaker 4: to come out of the East. I mean, these guys did
Speaker 4: make the playoffs. They're well coached. Every team in the
Speaker 4: East and you have to you have to earn it.
Speaker 4: That's what it's about.
Speaker 1: So you hear the reports out of Cleveland. JB is
Speaker 1: fighting for his job. So it'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: if they do get another game here.
Speaker 3: You also job as a coach.
Speaker 1: God damn, it is league right now, I know it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, ask Frank Vocal about the money he got paid.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just in darvin Ham by the way, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's it's crazy. We'll get to
Speaker 1: the Sun's coaching later, but I just it is kind
Speaker 1: of unbelievable. I mean, Boggie, it's kind of crazy when
Speaker 1: you look at the Celtics that they have made the
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference, finals five of the last seven years. That's crazy, right,
Speaker 1: That's like the Detroit Pistons when they had their run
Speaker 1: making the Eastern Conference finals over and over. Like, I
Speaker 1: just think we don't quite give that enough credit because
Speaker 1: we talk about the fact that they haven't broken through
Speaker 1: the one the title so often, and look, of those
Speaker 1: five out of seven years, only one time did the
Speaker 1: advance to the finals. When they did, they were up
Speaker 1: to one and then just looks like they kind of
Speaker 1: let go of the rope. Golden State won a series
Speaker 1: that frankly, the Celtics should have been in more. But
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum said something interesting to me after Game two.
Speaker 1: He said, I know, he said some version of like,
Speaker 1: I know, if we're not perfect, everyone gets on us.
Speaker 1: But is that kind of how it feels if you're
Speaker 1: the Celtics right now that like you better win the
Speaker 1: finals otherwise it's not good.
Speaker 4: Let me speak to that real quick. Yeah, because I
Speaker 4: mean it is what it is. Nobody remembers number two.
Speaker 4: We don't hang conference banners, so it's like that's part
Speaker 4: of it. I'm not going to name any other organizations.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, like I said, it is
Speaker 4: a Celtics organization, and they only hang title banners. That's
Speaker 4: part of it. It comes with it. He's been there
Speaker 4: for a while. He understands that. So it's no point
Speaker 4: of saying, you know the thing that you said, and
Speaker 4: you're entitled to have an opin you want to say.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, this is what it is
Speaker 4: as a c like win or go home.
Speaker 3: Nobody remembers number two. He said it best. I have
Speaker 3: nothing to say. See, we don't give conference finals like
Speaker 3: there you go. Jon.
Speaker 1: I want to translate that for anybody watching right now,
Speaker 1: is that Rajehn is a a very good guy and
Speaker 1: be one a title with the Lakers. So he is
Speaker 1: not gonna say anything negative about that organization because he
Speaker 1: is a good person. And yet they hung a banner
Speaker 1: for a season mid season tournament and I know exactly
Speaker 1: Oh they did, Oh they did.
Speaker 3: I mean it's the first ever. I mean, it's the
Speaker 3: first ever.
Speaker 2: You see that.
Speaker 1: So he's down there, We're not.
Speaker 3: This is what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be we'll see.
Speaker 1: Already hear about Circle Dallas guys, because they have put
Speaker 1: their foot in on this series and and you know, look,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Kyrie. We're going to talk
Speaker 1: about Luca. Nothing runs without them. Uh but PJ. Washington,
Speaker 1: Daniel Gafford, Lively, they have elevated the MAVs on both ends. PJ. Washington,
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm I'm sorry. I know if you're
Speaker 1: okay See, you're giving a lot of defensive attention to
Speaker 1: Luca and Kyrie, but you're leaving PJ. Washington to do
Speaker 1: what he's doing and book. How dangerous is that with
Speaker 1: the trio of these big men.
Speaker 3: When they made this trade at the deadline, I thought
Speaker 3: it was the perfect trade. I thought PJ. Washington was
Speaker 3: perfect mixture players would go with Kyrie and Luca obviously
Speaker 3: a Kentucky guy, so I'm a bit biased, but I
Speaker 3: also know what the kid can do. But this is
Speaker 3: no knock to Dallas. I think they're doing everything they're
Speaker 3: supposed to do. I think the new additions are stepping up,
Speaker 3: playing the role, playing, you know, beyond expectations. Kudos to them,
Speaker 3: But for me, it's about okay See and their big
Speaker 3: man depth, the big man experiencing depth. It's just not there,
Speaker 3: and it's showing when it comes to Washington, Gadford and Lively. Lively,
Speaker 3: the youngest side of the group. But even he's you know,
Speaker 3: producing at a high rate. Great, Yeah, I just I
Speaker 3: think that's a lot of pressure for the young kid
Speaker 3: and okay Chet, I think it's a lot of pressure
Speaker 3: for him to have to you know, battle with these
Speaker 3: three guys on throughout the series. And also for the
Speaker 3: young kid Jalen Wims, they don't have the experience. They
Speaker 3: don't Yeah, the other Jalen Wims, they don't have the experience,
Speaker 3: they don't have the boat. The veteran presence isn't there,
Speaker 3: and it's not really you know, a big on that
Speaker 3: bench that they can go to and get advice. So
Speaker 3: I think it's starting to show Dallas Biggs are having
Speaker 3: their way, and I think that's also you know helping them,
Speaker 3: you know, control this series. The way they are so
Speaker 3: far outside of Luke and Kyrie playing out of their minds.
Speaker 3: I think this is the difference in the series. Just
Speaker 3: the big man activity Chat has a lot of pressure
Speaker 3: on him. He's still learning, he's still young. I think
Speaker 3: he's gonna have an incredible career. I think he's gonna
Speaker 3: have a great career, but to expect him to dominate
Speaker 3: these matchups, but this really been his first year in
Speaker 3: the league is just not realistic. So I think that's
Speaker 3: the difference in this series so far. I mean, kudos
Speaker 3: to Washington. I mean like this is the perfect fit
Speaker 3: for him.
Speaker 4: He came out of a toxic situation and he's somewhere
Speaker 4: where he's appreciated along with Kyrie. You know, we've seen
Speaker 4: his happiness the way he's been very vocal in the
Speaker 4: press conferences. You see him, you know, on the social media,
Speaker 4: laughing and shooting out the practice. You know, just the
Speaker 4: energy and the chemistry that Jason Kidd has built in
Speaker 4: the organization. Shout out some nego as well. But they're
Speaker 4: just their happy family, you know. And obviously when when
Speaker 4: you're winning, things are great, everyone's smiling. But even through
Speaker 4: adversity in the first round with Dallas, you know they'll
Speaker 4: be able to stick with it and just give those
Speaker 4: guys credit.
Speaker 3: Like I said, it starts at the top.
Speaker 4: With Jake Kidd, and I feel like they've given those
Speaker 4: young guys life and energy, and they've those young guys
Speaker 4: they're big in particular, i'malking about he's giving them energy
Speaker 4: and it's a different.
Speaker 3: Type of coverage that they've had to.
Speaker 4: Okay, he's Biggs having to change this three versus last
Speaker 4: year versus the Valentunas and different type of pigs against
Speaker 4: New Orla Pelicans. Now they're facing Luca and pick and roll,
Speaker 4: Kyrie and pick and roll versus trying to keep a
Speaker 4: big but you know, from rotating behind them, all eyes
Speaker 4: of presents on these two guys, these two dominant scoring guards,
Speaker 4: and that losing of their man with off his rebounds.
Speaker 4: They're letting their roller get behind them. So it's just
Speaker 4: a lot of different coverages that they're not used to
Speaker 4: accustomed to with this age, this lack of experience early
Speaker 4: on in this playoffs. So I think things what we're seeing,
Speaker 4: but again they'll go back home and make an adjustment
Speaker 4: and look forward to seeing what's going to happen next.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in this series clearly not over by any
Speaker 1: long shot either, and there's a lot.
Speaker 2: To play out here. But we do see the youth.
Speaker 1: We talked about it all going into this playoffs, so
Speaker 1: like at some point you pay for the fact that
Speaker 1: you haven't been there before. That's just the way the
Speaker 1: NBA works. Like it's it's a cliche, because it's true.
Speaker 1: The guys with experience know what to do in those
Speaker 1: key moments and side. We talked all season about the
Speaker 1: fact that the Thunder as great as they've been played
Speaker 1: as they were playing and obviously number one seed, the
Speaker 1: fact that they got that at the end of the
Speaker 1: year was amazing. But they don't have the size some
Speaker 1: of these other teams in the Western Conference have. And
Speaker 1: chet is tall, but he's not beefy, right, and that
Speaker 1: matters when you're talking about the stuff. You're talking about
Speaker 1: Boog and then I don't think you can have this
Speaker 1: conversation without talking about the way Kyrie Irving has elevated
Speaker 1: his defensive game. And we knew he had it in him.
Speaker 1: I covered him in Cleveland and he played very sharp
Speaker 1: team defense in Cleveland. It's not like he doesn't know
Speaker 1: how to be a dog out on the court, but circumstances,
Speaker 1: obviously had a difficult few years, was not contributing on
Speaker 1: that end the way you would want him to in Boston,
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, and then you look at what Jay Kidd
Speaker 1: has brought out of him in Dallas and the comfort
Speaker 1: level those two have with each other. I mean, do
Speaker 1: you know what it's like to be a guard who
Speaker 1: can defend that way? I want to give you another
Speaker 1: stat here, when defended by Kyrie, Irving opponents are shooting
Speaker 1: eleven percentage points worse than expected. That ranks fifth among
Speaker 1: any players playing any real time in the playoffs. Here,
Speaker 1: eleven percentage points worse than expected when defended by Kyrie.
Speaker 2: And one thing that you.
Speaker 1: Know they mentioned last night in the press conferences or
Speaker 1: the other day in the press conferences, was that he's
Speaker 1: so handsy, right, and those great hands that we see
Speaker 1: with the finishes around the rim, the steals that he's getting.
Speaker 1: He's averaging nearly four deflections a game though that the
Speaker 1: impact is so huge it's almost even hard to quantify.
Speaker 4: Right, absolutely, I mean he's one of the greatest players
Speaker 4: we've ever seen played the game.
Speaker 3: I mean we all be in all of this offensive
Speaker 3: skill set.
Speaker 4: But again, if he wants to click a button to
Speaker 4: play defense, which we've seen that he's doing, you know,
Speaker 4: he's taking pride in his defense. Obviously, him and a
Speaker 4: little bit as different as deficiency on the guard level
Speaker 4: on the defensive side of what they say, so they say,
Speaker 4: but they both taken pride, like I said, Luke, and
Speaker 4: last series against the Clippers. In this series and Kyrie
Speaker 4: in this entire playoffs. But again when giving a challenge
Speaker 4: the guys magidude how great he is. He's accepting it
Speaker 4: and excelling in his role.
Speaker 3: I don't think we're using a career turn when where
Speaker 3: we're you know, while we're speaking on Kyrie, I think
Speaker 3: I think the main thing that Kyrie has shown throughout
Speaker 3: this playoff is leadership and championship leadership. You know, that's
Speaker 3: not really a term that's attached to Kyrie's name because it's.
Speaker 1: So much dirt, and it should be.
Speaker 3: This is championship leadership. He's showing it on both sides
Speaker 3: of the ball. He's doing it through his play, it's
Speaker 3: not necessarily vocal, and he's also doing it within his role.
Speaker 3: He's allowing with Luca to be Luca and then at
Speaker 3: the same time he's being Kyrie on both ends of
Speaker 3: the ball. So I just want to, you know, give
Speaker 3: him Miss Flowers for showing the leadership, because you know,
Speaker 3: they're so quick to throw dirt on this kid's name.
Speaker 3: I'm happy for him to be in this happy place.
Speaker 3: We see him smiling, we see him you know, relax.
Speaker 3: We get to see the Kyrie that we were used
Speaker 3: to seeing and It's almost like, you know, being in
Speaker 3: a relationship, if if you want the best and your relationship,
Speaker 3: you got a cater to your girl. And I think
Speaker 3: the Dallas Mavericks a catering to Kyrie and making sure
Speaker 3: he's happy and in a good place. And with that
Speaker 3: being I return for them, right exactly, if you want
Speaker 3: the best out of your girl, you got to give
Speaker 3: it a knife. Tell me there you go, it's a
Speaker 3: happy year.
Speaker 1: Well look the respect between him and Jay Kid. You know,
Speaker 1: he went to Jason Kidds Hall of Fame induction just
Speaker 1: because he was such a big Jason Kidd fan. Right,
Speaker 1: they had a relationship. It's not like they have a relationship,
Speaker 1: but he had never played for him at that point.
Speaker 1: It was an unexpected sighting at Ja Kid's Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame induction was just sort of like, oh, Kyrie's here,
Speaker 1: and it was just because of the amount of respect
Speaker 1: and love that he had for j Kid. So I
Speaker 1: just think that tells you what's going on there. And
Speaker 1: Jason from the day Kyrie walked in there, has had
Speaker 1: that kind of respect for Kyrie, which, as you point out,
Speaker 1: not everyone around the league has had. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that they he knew what it would take to
Speaker 1: get the best out of him and vice versa.
Speaker 2: I think has been exceptional.
Speaker 1: And when you are knocking down an opponent's shooting percentage
Speaker 1: by more than ten percent, that is it's impressive.
Speaker 2: That is that is going to make a difference.
Speaker 3: So sing he showed up.
Speaker 4: To my fiance's fashion fashion show, Kyrie did, and we
Speaker 4: don't have a great relationship, So I just kind of
Speaker 4: what you said. It's a great human being, fair players
Speaker 4: to watch. I encourage Pierre to watch him all the time,
Speaker 4: like watching really yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And look, Jason, I think, by the way, is the
Speaker 1: other factor we haven't talked about as much when I'm
Speaker 1: talking about this series.
Speaker 2: Jason is a guy who has been through all the wars.
Speaker 1: He's done everything from the spill Coke to everything he
Speaker 1: did as a player, like all the stuff, everything in
Speaker 1: Dallas and Dirk, all the all the years. It makes
Speaker 1: a difference when you're in these moments and you know,
Speaker 1: obviously Matt Mark Dagno is Coach of the Year and
Speaker 1: has done an incredible job there. But it makes a
Speaker 1: difference when you have coaches that have been through a
Speaker 1: lot and Michael Malone we talked about it earlier in
Speaker 1: this show. He made some great adjustments going into this
Speaker 1: weekend in Minnesota, and Michael Malone has been very vocal
Speaker 1: about the fact that there were at least two inflection
Speaker 1: points where management in Denver ownership could have fired him,
Speaker 1: and they stuck with him, and they knew that he
Speaker 1: was a good coach who maybe had a down year,
Speaker 1: who had bad injuries or had other things going on,
Speaker 1: and they stuck with him. And it makes a difference.
Speaker 1: And here we see again another franchise rotating the door. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it feels dumbed to have to say that,
Speaker 1: like smart coaching and consistency make a difference, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be the standard in this league. I
Speaker 1: just told you that all of the reporting out of
Speaker 1: Cleveland is that JB is fighting for his job there
Speaker 1: and we had the Sons just hire Mike Budenholzer, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to get your guys take on it, especially
Speaker 1: you Boogie. You played for him in Milwaukee at five year,
Speaker 1: fifty five year, fifty million dollar plus deal and replacing
Speaker 1: and Vogel, they won titles. I think back to back
Speaker 1: Frank one and twenty and Bud one in twenty one,
Speaker 1: and it's just okay, here's the revolving door. What do
Speaker 1: you think on this hiring and for getting the job book.
Speaker 3: Well, my first thought on this is it's it's mady
Speaker 3: ironic how players are held to theirs, to these standards
Speaker 3: when it comes to you know, character flaws and you
Speaker 3: know what type of person they are on and off
Speaker 3: the court, and you know those things are held against them.
Speaker 2: I'm not going as well to say it.
Speaker 3: No, I don't have to say anything. I'd rather people
Speaker 3: read between the lines. But also when it comes to
Speaker 3: the signs, I feel like they're putting the band aid
Speaker 3: on a gunshot. No paroxide. They an't even clean the
Speaker 3: fucking one. It's no peroxide, no neilspon, no rubbing alcohol.
Speaker 3: They just slapped the bad on there and said it
Speaker 3: get better. This this doesn't really move to there. And
Speaker 3: at the same time, we're still in this this era
Speaker 3: of where we're just recycling the same coaches like Frank
Speaker 3: Vogel won the championship in twenty twenty, right, Bud won
Speaker 3: a championship twenty twenty one. What's the fucking difference. I
Speaker 3: don't understand, Like how this fix fixes your problems as
Speaker 3: a franchise, as a team.
Speaker 4: Or even that's the problem to me, you can't you
Speaker 4: can't particularly blame the coach if you if you're the
Speaker 4: higher you bringing a coach a championship call of coach,
Speaker 4: and then you fire a year later, Like what sense
Speaker 4: does that make? I feel like that's a player fire.
Speaker 4: But what I'm confused about is like before you hired
Speaker 4: this guy, you don't talk to the players, don't. I
Speaker 4: don't get why you would try to give make him
Speaker 4: a scapegoat when it's like you look at the problem,
Speaker 4: but actually the players on the court, like some they
Speaker 4: have to be held accountable at some point. You can't
Speaker 4: hire a coach and when you're expect him to win
Speaker 4: a championship, and on top of that, seeing what the
Speaker 4: team that they got swept by is doing to the
Speaker 4: defending champs right now. So it's like I thought they
Speaker 4: would give them a little bit more grace as far
Speaker 4: as like okay, cool, it's not just look like this
Speaker 4: team is legit, Like they would have lost fingers, lost
Speaker 4: them bidgets in the conference finals, like regards, they would
Speaker 4: have lost them regardless because they have dogs on the perimeter.
Speaker 4: That want that smoke. Yeah, they don't like I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't get why said I disagree with that.
Speaker 3: I'm upset.
Speaker 4: I don't have any problem, but Mike, it's not about him.
Speaker 4: It's about they said, the organization and how they just
Speaker 4: fired Frank and now they're expecting Mike to come and
Speaker 4: do something different if they don't change their roster, Like
Speaker 4: it has to be a roster change, and that's in
Speaker 4: general manager. Yeah, I mean the best player off the bench,
Speaker 4: and my dog is Eric Gordon come off the bench,
Speaker 4: Like you can't expect him to give you twenty five
Speaker 4: or you know he's not the six six man? Can
Speaker 4: they player the year anymore? Like he's not the same
Speaker 4: caliber player. He's old, a lot older now. So it's like,
Speaker 4: that's what you're offering, that's what the tools you're giving
Speaker 4: me to play with.
Speaker 3: You want me to go out here and win.
Speaker 2: Book? Do you see?
Speaker 1: I mean you know I said you were up close
Speaker 1: in that locker room with Bud and his coaching style,
Speaker 1: even if just talking x's and o's, Like, do you
Speaker 1: see him being able to do anything differently or what
Speaker 1: do you see him unlocking something we don't see? I
Speaker 1: mean I assume they're going to get a point gird,
Speaker 1: I assume they're going to get hold there.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's about his coaching style. I think
Speaker 3: it's more so about his personality and the personalities he
Speaker 3: wants to mess with. When it comes to coaching, it's
Speaker 3: not just about x's and o's. It's about managing egos.
Speaker 3: It's about managing different personalities, and as a coach, you
Speaker 3: can't you can't shortcut it by saying, oh, well, I
Speaker 3: just don't like this personality, so I don't want to
Speaker 3: coach like, well, that's a disaster waiting to happen. And
Speaker 3: that's part of the reason PJ. Tucker didn't go back
Speaker 3: to Milwaukee after winning the championship because he didn't like PJ,
Speaker 3: which is fucking mind blown.
Speaker 1: So everyone likes PJS.
Speaker 3: Right, So my thing is it's like, it's like I said,
Speaker 3: I just don't understand this recycling door. You know, coach
Speaker 3: goes here and then he's there for two years, then
Speaker 3: he's over to another team for another two years. And
Speaker 3: what happened the teams creating chemistry, the reason that that
Speaker 3: Denver is as good as they are, they've been together
Speaker 3: for years the same coach, the same core years. They
Speaker 3: went through losses, they went through wins, They've been through
Speaker 3: ups and downs together. That's how you figure out yourself
Speaker 3: as a team. This recycling door of coaches for you know,
Speaker 3: two years here, a year here, you'll never find success
Speaker 3: that way. Trying to trying to find a coach that's
Speaker 3: gonna win a championship in one year. That's a hard
Speaker 3: thing to do for any I don't care who.
Speaker 4: Even with the roster they had though, Like it's not
Speaker 4: even you got guys that don't sput a defense like
Speaker 4: it from anybody.
Speaker 3: Man, what are we doing? James Jones he gets to
Speaker 3: hide in the shadows after putting together this bullshit ass
Speaker 3: roster like he's not it's Frank Vogel's fault. But James
Speaker 3: Jones puts this bullshit ass roster together with no point guard.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's James Jones fault either, I
Speaker 1: really don't. I don't think it's either one of their fault.
Speaker 1: I think you had a new owner who came in
Speaker 1: who has every new I mean again so that before
Speaker 1: to be a great owner in this league. But they
Speaker 1: do it every time. It's like it's like clockwork.
Speaker 2: It's like one game is he not fire?
Speaker 3: They win one game, they lose for one is you know?
Speaker 2: I mean like yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 1: But you have a new owner who came in he
Speaker 1: knew better than everybody, just like they always do. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's work. Makes a huge trade for KD makes
Speaker 1: the other trade for badly Beale. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: James Jones fault. That was a directive from above. And
Speaker 1: then I have to assume this was too. And and again,
Speaker 1: the quick trigger and the organizations that behave this way
Speaker 1: are actually causing the coaches who do play for the
Speaker 1: right organization that guys like the Nuggets coach. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously Dallas, they're being patient all that stuff. Jay Kidd
Speaker 1: just got a contract extension that he can directly. I
Speaker 1: hope he sends a thank you note to Lebron James,
Speaker 1: because it is the threat of the Lakers wanting to
Speaker 1: take him away that got him that coaching extension in Dallas.
Speaker 1: And by the way, obviously because he deserved it. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that, but the timing of it was very specific, right,
Speaker 1: and tylu is going to get the same extension, by
Speaker 1: the way, and he deserves it also, and he was
Speaker 1: due for one, but I'm sorry. You can thank the
Speaker 1: Lakers for the size of the number that is going
Speaker 1: to come across there, right right.
Speaker 3: Agree, Tom is all about life, It's all about time.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: You can catch all episodes of bully Bombed Trackings Network,
Speaker 1: all the Smoke Productions YouTube channel. Please rate and review
Speaker 1: us wherever you get your podcast. We need those five
Speaker 1: star reviews. We will catch you next week.
Speaker 2: We're out, babe.
Speaker 3: Mhm.