1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to

5
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 1: the show. My name is Noel. Our colleague Matt is

6
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: on adventures, but we'll be returning soon. They called me Ben.

7
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Paul

8
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 1: Michion control decond. Most importantly, you are you, You are here,

9
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

10
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,200
Speaker 1: to know. It's the most wonderful time of the year.

11
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 1: We've made it, fellow conspiracy realists through trial and tribulation

12
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: to another October. As you know, Halloween's our favorite holiday,

13
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 1: so we thought what better way to celebrate than to

14
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: kick off this month with an episode on monsters. Not

15
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,000
Speaker 1: just one, but two episodes. Uh. This may not be

16
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,479
Speaker 1: the sort of exploration you were expecting, and it's taking

17
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 1: us across the planet from ancient times to the modern day.

18
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,400
Speaker 1: I never thought we'd have to say it. No old,

19
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: but this might be familiar, uh to some of our

20
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,479
Speaker 1: fellow listeners who play Fortnite at least part of it.

21
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, please don't don't rag on us too hard.

22
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 1: We did our best. We meta Versus a very interesting place,

23
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 1: rife with yeah kids that are mean to you, but

24
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,639
Speaker 1: now I was super fun. There's actually an expanded version

25
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,399
Speaker 1: of what we did there. We sort of just hit

26
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 1: the high points and the this episode is actually going

27
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 1: to be uh some extra stuff for even folks that

28
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 1: did managed to catch that that metaverse Um exclusive piece

29
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 1: of content. So, without further ado, here are the facts. Now,

30
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 1: this is something uh know that you and I have

31
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: talked about at times in another show. We do ridiculous history.

32
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 1: For a lot of human history, for the span of

33
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 1: human civilization, belief in what we would call monsters was

34
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,160
Speaker 1: not controversial, was an accepted part of existence. You know. Uh,

35
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 1: these days, things like vampires and you know, zombies or

36
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 1: evil spirits are consigned a myth and legend and rumor.

37
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 1: But once upon a time they were considered very real,

38
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,359
Speaker 1: genuine environmental threats, Like you were really warning people not

39
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 1: to go in the woods. That's true, and you know,

40
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 1: in certain um cultures and religions, they sort of take

41
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 1: on more of the feeling of allegory or myth or

42
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,640
Speaker 1: sort of cautionary tale, But you're absolutely right. There are

43
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: definitely cultures that still to this day to some degree,

44
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: treat them with the same urgency as you might, you know,

45
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,840
Speaker 1: like you said, been like a wild animal attack or

46
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 1: something like that, you know, or they're the idea of, uh,

47
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 1: some sort of dangerous human stalking the night. The power

48
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,359
Speaker 1: of belief remains very, very strong um in certain parts

49
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 1: of the world, and I think you could be you

50
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be too hard pressed to find a person

51
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:12,000
Speaker 1: in America that to some degree believes in supernatural forces,

52
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 1: whether they call them monsters or whether they call them,

53
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: you know, hauntings or or or specters of some kind.

54
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,919
Speaker 1: I think that belief still certainly exists. So in the

55
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: first part of this two part series, we're going to

56
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,639
Speaker 1: look at some examples of this, and we're gonna ask

57
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,639
Speaker 1: for your help at the end, because again there are

58
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 1: examples of plenty, so much so that we are making

59
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: this a two part episode. Look, when we're when we're

60
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,400
Speaker 1: exploring the lives of people in communities in the past,

61
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: we always want to take pains to say those beliefs

62
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 1: do not in any way indicate these people or the

63
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: communities in which they lived were foolish at all. Instead, again,

64
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 1: they were working with the information they had, so there

65
00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 1: would be diseases. You couldn't explain maladies straight being atmospheric phenomenon,

66
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: and so people would approach this through their own cultural framework.

67
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: And they were just as intelligent as people today, so

68
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 1: they wanted to explain things, to recognize patterns. A curse

69
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,600
Speaker 1: could also be another explanation. And these entities weren't always sinister.

70
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of helpful supernatural spirits

71
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 1: in folklore, and you're student of anthropology or folklore history,

72
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 1: none of this is particularly surprising. But there is one

73
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 1: thing that might startle a lot of us listening today

74
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 1: today October, all across the planet. They're not thousands, not

75
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands, but millions upon millions of people who

76
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 1: believe at least some of those monsters of old, those creatures, curses,

77
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 1: spirits and ghoules, anything that goes bump in the night,

78
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 1: some people still believe they're real. Here's where it gets crazy. So,

79
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: like you said, Nol, we've talked about gen when beliefs

80
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: in monsters and curses and even more modern legends that

81
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 1: a lot of the rest of the world might dismiss

82
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think always amazes Outsiders

83
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,880
Speaker 1: happens in Iceland and full disclosure or pal mission Control

84
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 1: has traveled to Iceland, I think not once, but twice.

85
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 1: And I had asked him off air a long time

86
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,840
Speaker 1: ago whether he encountered this. But believe it or not. Uh,

87
00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 1: there is a strong contention of people in Iceland who

88
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,919
Speaker 1: believe in something very much like Elves. Yeah, there's a

89
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 1: bunch of its. A movie that came out maybe last Halloween.

90
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 1: I think it's called Elves and it's basically like an

91
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,479
Speaker 1: Icelandic gremlin's movie. Um, they're mischievous little bastards in this,

92
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 1: and I think it's not no spoilers, it's not a

93
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: particularly great movie, but there is sort of like a

94
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 1: the precocious kids go out of the woods and discover

95
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 1: like a tiny cute elfling and then of course, by

96
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 1: the fact that they have taken ens you now into shelter,

97
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 1: the bigger, meaner, scarier Elves come after it. Um. But yeah,

98
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: I know it's very much true. And this is a

99
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 1: a belief also that kind of ties into I believe

100
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 1: it was icelandic we did this on ridiculous history too,

101
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 1: about like the Yule Lads. Remember the Yule Lads like

102
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 1: spoon liquor and candles, sniffer knee, slapper humper or whatever

103
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 1: they were. Is that isn't isn't that Icelandic as well?

104
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 1: The Yule Lads are sort of the Yeah, they occur

105
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 1: in Iceland, uh, and a couple of other countries there.

106
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 1: The belief is like the gritty, disturbing origin story of

107
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:49,479
Speaker 1: Santa's Helpers kind of. They they are the children of

108
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:57,839
Speaker 1: a demonic, monstrous figure. Uh. They are associated with mischief nowadays,

109
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 1: but back in the day they were associated with dangerous

110
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: things like stealing children. You know. Uh. I love they

111
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 1: bring up the old lads because they have a lot

112
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:12,040
Speaker 1: in common with the the alfar or the the elves,

113
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 1: the hidden folk in Iceland. But yeah, this was this

114
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: wasn't always just a story you told children to guide

115
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 1: their behavior. People did believe in this stuff and even

116
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: now you might. I was surprised to find in seventeen,

117
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 1: National Geographic did a piece on this belief, and they

118
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 1: found that more than fifty percent of people in Iceland

119
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,480
Speaker 1: claimed to have some degree of belief in elves. Uh.

120
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:47,080
Speaker 1: There not super evil uh and they're really closely associated

121
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 1: with the bizarre and unique environment of the country. I mean,

122
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: it's got lava fields. It it feels to me like

123
00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 1: if you're looking at Iceland from Afar, you immediately think, hey,

124
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm either freezing right down the wrong side of the

125
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 1: volcano and I'm burning. So like, how do you explain

126
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 1: if you're in early um, if you're a person living

127
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 1: early in early Icelandic history, how do you explain all

128
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: this weird stuff? It's interesting too, because I mean, Iceland

129
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 1: is does It's a good point that you make. It

130
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 1: does tend to be a land of cultural extremes. I mean,

131
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, you've got the most gorgeous kind of like

132
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: lilting um, you know, ambient music like by the likes

133
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,120
Speaker 1: of Seagar Roast and Bark and stuff like that. And

134
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 1: then you have this whole like Icelandic death metal movement

135
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,800
Speaker 1: that is just the absolute most extreme kind of harshest

136
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 1: of music you can imagine. And I think the land

137
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 1: and the landscape there and just the kind of isolation

138
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 1: tends to kind of create those kinds of responses and

139
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 1: and and folks that live there. Um, it's also very isolated,

140
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,319
Speaker 1: very expensive to live there just by virtue of how

141
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,079
Speaker 1: disconnected from everything is. I mean, it just must be

142
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 1: like people just getting an absolutely reamed with with import

143
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,959
Speaker 1: taxes and such. And you know, if you were to

144
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,680
Speaker 1: ask most people in Iceland this question, or many people,

145
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,880
Speaker 1: if you were to say do believe in elves, you'll

146
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 1: find that a lot of people sit on the fence.

147
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 1: Some people think it's a little bit childish, but you know,

148
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: they'll also say, hey, we've got a rich folklore here.

149
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,599
Speaker 1: This is a big part of our culture. So a

150
00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:30,439
Speaker 1: lot of people won't apparently won't feel completely comfortable dismissing

151
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 1: the idea out of hand. In general, it helps that

152
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 1: these creatures are not seen as super aggressive, so long

153
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 1: as you treat them with respect. They're one big sticking

154
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,679
Speaker 1: point is that they're very very territorial, and that that

155
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 1: means construction can be a problem. I love this idea

156
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 1: that you know, I mean, you know, they're keebler elves

157
00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,440
Speaker 1: of course that we know and love or whatever. Maybe

158
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,839
Speaker 1: we're terrified by when we were kids in America, the

159
00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 1: little spokes things of cookie fame. They live in trees,

160
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, with like doors in them, in like little

161
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: tree house as well apparently in Iceland, large boulders are

162
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: thought to be the homes of of the elven kind,

163
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 1: which could be a real problem if you're clearing out

164
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 1: you know, um fields of of of stone to make

165
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 1: room for new developments. Uh, this kind of disruption could

166
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 1: really rile up the the the elves. Um. And there

167
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,040
Speaker 1: are certainly folks who believe that elves have kind of

168
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,439
Speaker 1: you know, taken on sort of a Luddite role and

169
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:39,040
Speaker 1: uh in in smashing industrial equipment like bulldozers and and

170
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 1: making off with tools to slow down production. Yeah. And

171
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 1: elves also get blamed when machines break or just stop

172
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 1: operating with no apparent explanation. Gremlin type stuff. Really, I

173
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 1: mean the gremlins in America. They were I think commonly

174
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,679
Speaker 1: kind of thought of as as as um hijacking or

175
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 1: sabotaging planes, you know in the Wars. Yeah, and uh,

176
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,559
Speaker 1: this is sort of a elf sabotage operation here. It

177
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 1: also goes to personal injury, like a worker may sprain

178
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,199
Speaker 1: an ankle or break a leg, And at times the

179
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,959
Speaker 1: actions of elves were blamed rather than human error or

180
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, taking a misstep. In older stories, it gets

181
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 1: a little bit rougher you can see livestock being afflicted

182
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 1: with a disease or an infection, or even people falling

183
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: ill or dying unexpectedly. However, you find yourself on the

184
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 1: skeptic slash true believer spectrum, you will see that a

185
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 1: lot of people in Iceland still do seem to take

186
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 1: this seriously. Now, whether that's part of just respecting an

187
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 1: ancient culture, or whether that's genuine fear of harm, whatever

188
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,400
Speaker 1: the case may be, You'll see that it's not crazy

189
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 1: uncommon for people were in construction or building a road

190
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 1: to divert a road kind of in an arc around

191
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 1: a big boulder, instead of disturbing it or blasting through it.

192
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,719
Speaker 1: It's funny, man, And I think I think you have

193
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: played breadth of the wild to some degree right on

194
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: the switch. You know, those little corock guys that like

195
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 1: give you the seeds that allow you to expand your inventory.

196
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,839
Speaker 1: They always live underneath boulders and like tree stumps and

197
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,600
Speaker 1: things like that. And there's a little bit of elvishness

198
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,079
Speaker 1: about those guys too. Um. And also you know gremlin's

199
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,439
Speaker 1: by the way, um, you know, are very much kind

200
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 1: of an American creation during the World Wars and and

201
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,959
Speaker 1: seem to really jump off of a lot of this

202
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 1: folklore that you're talking about, and these ones, you know,

203
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 1: are specifically I don't even think you have to piss

204
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 1: them off. I think that they're they're they're just inherently

205
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,200
Speaker 1: kind of you know, chaos, magic wielders. Yeah, yeah, they're

206
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 1: just agency chaos. And in the case of elves in Iceland,

207
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 1: lest we be casting this version upon their reputation here

208
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 1: in the world of podcasting, supporting a note, they're not

209
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: all bad. As a matter of fact, I found one

210
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 1: former member of Icelandic parliament even swears that a family

211
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 1: of elves saved his life when he was in a

212
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,040
Speaker 1: car accident. Now is that just something you say during

213
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,880
Speaker 1: campaign or is that something he truly believes? Story for

214
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 1: another day. Also, I mean, I mean depending, I guess,

215
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,199
Speaker 1: I guess you're speaking to your base they're right. I

216
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,320
Speaker 1: mean the fact that someone would even be comfortable enough

217
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,760
Speaker 1: to even say that out loud with a level of

218
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,360
Speaker 1: belief that wouldn't go over super well with politicians in

219
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 1: the United States unless it's just like, you know, speaking

220
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 1: to evangelical Christian kind of beliefs. But the idea of

221
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,440
Speaker 1: being well, actually what am I talking about. There's plenty

222
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: of folks on that side of the aisle that would

223
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,120
Speaker 1: absolutely say they've spoken to angels or that they have,

224
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,200
Speaker 1: you know, had encounters you know, of the third kind

225
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 1: with things more out of scripture, Yeah, superstition or folklore. Yeah,

226
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 1: there's a there's a widespread belief system in the interventions

227
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,599
Speaker 1: of the divine and the infernal. It goes across I

228
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: would say, Eddie, almost any imaginable political spectrum, but this, yeah,

229
00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 1: it's true. Like if you if you were ever thinking, wow,

230
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 1: the people of some other country must be so silly

231
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 1: to believe in these things that I think are malarkey.

232
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 1: You gotta remember you're in a glasshouse as well, because

233
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people in your country have beliefs, uh,

234
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 1: have beliefs in things that would be considered supernatural. I mean,

235
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 1: in the case of Iceland, there's even an elf school

236
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 1: where you can take a day course that earns you

237
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 1: a diploma in I imagine Elfrey. But with that, we've

238
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,320
Speaker 1: we've shown you one, uh, one belief that is at

239
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: least partially genuinely practiced by people in a country. So

240
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: let's pause for a moment and will return with another

241
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: even more popular supernatural leaf. Okay, here's one. We won't

242
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,440
Speaker 1: spend too much time on this one because we did

243
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 1: an entire episode on it, The Jin when I love

244
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 1: your point earlier and all about the idea of many

245
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 1: people in the US believing in angels and demons. Uh.

246
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 1: Many many people, especially of the Islamic faith, but not

247
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: necessarily always Islamic, believe in the Jin. Uh. You know,

248
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: the idea that the Creator made angels, made human beings,

249
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 1: and made a third intelligent life form called the Jin,

250
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: crafted out of smokeless green fire. It's nuts because I

251
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 1: think I don't know growing up until I saw, until

252
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,000
Speaker 1: I started finding the right books in the library, was

253
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 1: about seven or eight. All I knew about the Jin

254
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: was is uh Western depictions, you know, Robin Williams in

255
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 1: a Latin or kause am slash m shout out no

256
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: one knows actually has a quick cursory Google search will

257
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 1: tell you that it was in fact kausam right, Yes,

258
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: it's kazam. Chasm with sindbad is another thing that is

259
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 1: apparently not. It only exists in like our collective unconscious

260
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,960
Speaker 1: for some reason. Right. Um, there's actually a speaking of

261
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 1: movies that do exist about Jin. There is a relative

262
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: a new movie from George Miller, who did the Mad

263
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 1: Max movies and of course like weirdly the Babe movies

264
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 1: and the Happy Face movies. It is called Three Thousand

265
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 1: Years of Longing Uh and it starts Tilda Swinton and

266
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 1: Interest Elba, and Interest Elba plays a gin uh and Um,

267
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 1: I have it's actually based on a short story called

268
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 1: The Jin in the Nightingales I by A s By It.

269
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: I have not seen it yet, but it looks pretty

270
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 1: interesting and uh and very elaborate and obviously kind of

271
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 1: got you know, a blank check to do whatever you

272
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 1: wanted after that Mad Max Fury Road just you know,

273
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 1: completely blew the doors off everything. So um, looking forward

274
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 1: to checking it out. Um, But yeah, ginn er interesting.

275
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,920
Speaker 1: There's really another good depiction or a fun silly depiction

276
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: in the show, which I think you're also a fan of,

277
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 1: been what We Do in the Shadows In the new season, Um,

278
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,359
Speaker 1: one of the vampires finds a genie lamp or a

279
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: gin lamp and rubs it and has this gin that

280
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 1: appears to him. But the kind of the characters portrayed

281
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,159
Speaker 1: as more of like an accountant kind of not a

282
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,879
Speaker 1: lot of like you know, fire and bluster and all

283
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,399
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff is just much more kind of

284
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: like procedural about it and very put upon by being

285
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 1: in this guy's service and trying desperately to trick him

286
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 1: into making dumb wishes or you know, to to lose

287
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, wishes. Yeah, what dungeons and dragons we call

288
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 1: lawful evil. Uh. Yeah, there's always there's always kind of

289
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 1: this associated monkeys Paul with the idea of wishes and

290
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,159
Speaker 1: gin in the western uh, in the western framework. But

291
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 1: if you delve into the actual folklore like pre Islamic

292
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: and Islamic beliefs, you'll see it goes much deeper than that.

293
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 1: And as much as I love Robin Williams riffing in Aladdin,

294
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 1: it is not a super accurate definition, So check out

295
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: our earlier episode on that. But before you check out

296
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 1: that episode, let's talk about a monster many people have

297
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: not have heard of. Oh and also side note, the

298
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:35,600
Speaker 1: Jin are not inherently monstrous or evil, They're just different. Uh.

299
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 1: We want to thank everybody who took the time to

300
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 1: write to us with their own Jin stories after hearing

301
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: that episode all those years ago. If if you have

302
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 1: a jin story yourself. We would love to hear it,

303
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,439
Speaker 1: so please contact us with it. We'll tell you how

304
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,920
Speaker 1: to get in touch with us at the end of

305
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,200
Speaker 1: the show. But let's travel to South Africa. Riddle me this, noal,

306
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,119
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of this one, the toko Loche? No,

307
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 1: I have not. Um it's fun to say, though I

308
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 1: can already tell you that right. This was unfamiliar to me,

309
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of the a lot of

310
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 1: things will find over these two episodes are going to

311
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 1: be unfamiliar to a lot of people in the West,

312
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 1: like you and myself. So the Tokoloshe, also known as

313
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,399
Speaker 1: the Tikoloh, is this diminutive, like really short, hairy South

314
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: African demon that apparently can function as a kind of

315
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 1: hit man. You contact a an evil practitioner the spiritual arts,

316
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 1: which might be called the witch doctor, and then they

317
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 1: will build this thing to take revenge on your enemies.

318
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,640
Speaker 1: It's like it's a water sprite. It's tough to catch

319
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 1: because it be can be invisible. It renders itself invisible

320
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 1: by drinking water or by swallowing a stone and h

321
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 1: we actually in our research found maybe more of a

322
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 1: mundane explanation for them that comes from banded to folklore

323
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 1: as a way of explaining why people seem to inexplicably

324
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 1: die while sleeping at night. Correct. Um, that's because traditionally

325
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: folks in this part of the world live in kind

326
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 1: of stone yurts, I guess like you might think of

327
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: in a state park for you know, glamping. Um. Traditionally,

328
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: folks there would sleep on the floor on these woven

329
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: grass mats that would circle a wooden fire pit in

330
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: the center of the of the yurt that would of

331
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 1: course warmed them during the very very very cold winter nights.

332
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 1: In this terrain, this just this part of the country,

333
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 1: you can get quite cold at night. Um. So for

334
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 1: a long time folks didn't realize that the fire was

335
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 1: in fact, um messing with the levels of oxygen and

336
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 1: causing carbon monoxide. Think of it as like running a

337
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: car in a in a garage, you know, or something

338
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: like that, or just what can happen if a fire

339
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: happens in your home. And that's why we have carbon

340
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: monoxide detectors, because it literally does replace the breathable oxygen

341
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 1: with carbon monoxide, and you can you can breathe that

342
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: and you won't really know the difference until you kind

343
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 1: of your body just shuts down. I mean, it's not

344
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 1: exactly the same as like suffocating or drowning, because I

345
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: think it's easier to not realize what's going on right then, Yeah, exactly,

346
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: because you are unconscious, so you may simply go to

347
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: sleep and not wake up. It's a very scary thing,

348
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: but it's also a very real thing. So again, people

349
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: wanted to explain what was happening. Eventually they realized that

350
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,360
Speaker 1: if you happen to fall asleep in an elevated position,

351
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be in danger from this curse or these

352
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: attacks because you know, as as we know, as you explained,

353
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 1: when you are prone on the ground, your your head

354
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: is in that that like layer of carbon monoxide. But

355
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: when you're sleeping in say a sitting position of some sort,

356
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: then you're still breathing oxygen. So this story came about

357
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: saying that there was a short supernatural entity about yea hi.

358
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we're an audio podcast right now, so just

359
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: picture me pointing to my hip about as high as

360
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: an average person's hip, and uh, it couldn't get you

361
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: if you're bed or you're sleeping. Area was elevated high enough.

362
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: There was, by the way, one silly, kind of silly,

363
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: not not safe for work detail that I had found,

364
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: which was some rumors said that the tokolo shape was

365
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: pretty well endowed for its size and one way it

366
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: would take revenge on people is targeting their wives and

367
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: h then the wife would become or the spouse or

368
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: significant other would become embroiled in a ah yeah, and

369
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: an adulterous relationship, and that that would be the biggest revenge.

370
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: But usually the idea was that the tokolosha would be

371
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: set upon someone to kill them. And we're not zulu

372
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: Jo speakers, so forgive our pronunciation here, but we found

373
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: some grizzly details about how these creatures are created or summoned. Yeah,

374
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 1: and I will also say that quick google of of tokoosha,

375
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: there are quite a few what appeared to be pretty

376
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: b or sea level movies about the toko. Well, there's

377
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: one from the sixties that's g rated and looks like

378
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: a kind of like more of like a like a

379
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,239
Speaker 1: children's film. Uh, it looks pretty key with this one

380
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: called Toko Loch the Calling, and just like you can

381
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: tell by the cover alone that it's absolute trash. And

382
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: then another one that's just called the Toko Loch and

383
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: the tagline is where she goes, it follows and then

384
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: it's got like a little girl in a hallway and

385
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: some spooky fingers reaching out. But it just looks like

386
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: the worst kind of c G I I've ever seen. Um,

387
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, the whole well endowed bit as

388
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: a interesting too. There's H'm sorry I keep going in

389
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: the pop cultural rabbit holes, but there's so I'm realizing

390
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 1: so much of this stuff is fodder for like science

391
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: fiction and like you know, fantasy horror as well. Of course,

392
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: there is a uh it's not I mean it's not Miyazaki,

393
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: but it's the Studio Ghibli movie called Pom Poco and

394
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: it's about these yeah, these yeah, they're these like um,

395
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: what do you call it? Shape shape shifting tanukis, And

396
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: they all have giant testicles that they do not shy

397
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: away from at all in the kids animated movie, and

398
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: I think they even use it as a superpower in

399
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: some parts to kind of generate like a net, or

400
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: they use it to catch the wind and they can

401
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: like wind surf on their giant testicles. Uh So, I

402
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: wonder if that's any you know, commonalities between these two

403
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 1: creatures and these these guys and these guys also we're

404
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,479
Speaker 1: actually now I'm getting caught back up in the elves.

405
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: But the tanuki in pomp Poco they also sabotaged construction

406
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: sites forest to protect their forests in their habitat um. Yes,

407
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: some of these details about the summoning or you know,

408
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: calling of the tokos are are a little a little chilling. Um,

409
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: we've got someone kind of contacting a witch doctor, and

410
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: then you know that is a loaded term. We of

411
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: course think of the Alvin and the Chipmunk song. You know,

412
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: I called the witch doctor and like you uh ting tang,

413
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: walla walla bing bang, all very broad, borderline offensive caricatures

414
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: of you know, island kind of folks and in this

415
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: sort of idea of this sort of form of Santa

416
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: Ria and all of that stuff and very you know,

417
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: cartoonishly rendered. So let's just the the term witch doctor

418
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: in and of itself. I'm sure there's a better name,

419
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: like in uh, I believe that like a breuja, this

420
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: is one name for them, Like yeahs a ton of

421
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: different ones. So witch doctor is in and of itself

422
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: a little weird. Um so what we are talking a

423
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: little bit in general terms. Um, So they are contacted,

424
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: they are hired. Also, this idea of them being like

425
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: inherently evil somehow plays into a lot of these these

426
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: depictions which I don't know. I don't want to hire

427
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: anybody evil. It's gonna be a monkey's pot on a scenario. Well, yes, sometimes,

428
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: and they're very much is one here. Like sometimes you know,

429
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: if you're thinking of a spiritual practitioner in this tradition,

430
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: there will be healers, right, people who banish evil spirits

431
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 1: and bad vibes, and then on the other side there

432
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: will be more of a left hand path they would

433
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: call it in some European magical belief systems, And that's

434
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: very much the sith lord stuff. So yeah, not all

435
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: these practitioners are the same by any means. But in

436
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: the stories, you reach out to this bad actor spiritual practitioner,

437
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: and you, as the clients are seeking revenge, you pay

438
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: them maybe with maybe with money, maybe with some other things, right,

439
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: some other things of value, But the main thing you

440
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: have to pay in the story is the promise of

441
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: the soul of a loved one with a very important caveat.

442
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: You do not get to choose which loved one will

443
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: be taken. The Tokoloche itself decides when and how it

444
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: will take that soul, and they decide who they're gonna get. Yeah,

445
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: these are all again like these are very devil's bargain

446
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: kind of situations where it's it's set up for you

447
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: to fail. You know, you go to one of these

448
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: things like as a last resort because maybe you heard

449
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: that they could like really do crazy stuff and they

450
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: could get you your revenge, and you're so blinded by

451
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: the need to to enact whatever this revenge or to

452
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: solve this problem might be, that you don't think about

453
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: the fact that this is ultimately going to come back

454
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: on you. I mean, it really is like the ultimate

455
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: kind of monkeys Pass situation, and it's pretty grizzly. The

456
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: creation process. According to the lore, this practitioner, once the

457
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: deal is made and you have your covenant, will procure

458
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: from somewhere a dead body, a dead human body, piercing

459
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: the eye sockets in the brain with a hot iron rod.

460
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: The logic here being this removes the ability of the

461
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: human spirit to think for itself. They'll then they'll sprinkle

462
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: the corpse with a magic powder that causes the thing

463
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: to shrink. The tokoloshe will then possess the body. It

464
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: will enact revenge against the target, and you will never

465
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: know when you're part of the bargain comes due. The

466
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: tokoloshi maybe take its payment a few weeks later, or

467
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: a few months later, or even years after the fact.

468
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: It will take the soul of a loved one. So

469
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: it's heavy stuff to mess with. I guess you really

470
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: have to want that revenge, but it is something that

471
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: is still reportedly believed in some communities in this part

472
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: of the world, although I should say again with with

473
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: many of these stories that we're talking about, a lot

474
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: of these beliefs are kind of on the decline, sort

475
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: of on their way out. Demographically. You'll see that a

476
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: lot of younger folks, um don't don't really buy into

477
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: these concepts, but a lot of older folks genuinely do

478
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: still believe in them. And um, I'm saying that to

479
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: set us up for for our next one, which we

480
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: talked about in our metaverse stuff which is not so

481
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: much an entity as it is in action and intention,

482
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: and the protection from that action or intention. It can

483
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: be a little confusing to people, but you've definitely heard

484
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: of it before. Nauseair the evil, that's right. It's interesting

485
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: because you know, if anyone's ever been to say, like

486
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: a Latin kind of market or um, you know, even

487
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: like an Asian Asian market, or like a bizarre like

488
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: in another country. If you're traveling UM, you are likely

489
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: to see trinkets or amulets or rings or you know,

490
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: pendants or whatever depicting this like blue kind of crystalline

491
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, flat circle with an eye drawn to the

492
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: middle of it. And in fact, it is now an emoji.

493
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: If you type in evil eye on your iPhone you

494
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: will get the exact image that I'm talking about. And

495
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: there's another one that comes a little more from I

496
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: believe Islam. That's sort of a hand with some fingers

497
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: folded and like the eye kind of in the center

498
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: of the hand. That one also comes up, and it

499
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: is this concept of protecting yourself against someone who is

500
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: looking upon you with a covetous nature, you know, maybe

501
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: not necessarily cursing you or wishing you death or misfortune,

502
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 1: but just the very act of like people if if

503
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: you're in a position of success or prominence. You can

504
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: elicit a lot of this kind of negative energy, and

505
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: the evil Eye or the nizarre Um is in fact

506
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: a a medallion or you know, a kind of an

507
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: item that protects against that. So even though you said

508
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: times are here, the thing itself, the image, the icon

509
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: referred to as the evil eye, it's actually a protective

510
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: artifact or a proprotective symbol. It is not the the

511
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: evil i itself. It's just sort of a term that's

512
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: sort of used to describe the thing by the thing

513
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: that it protects against. M Yeah, and what what you'll

514
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: see about this one. What I think is so fascinating

515
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: about the idea of this curse is that it is

516
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: so very widespread and very old. I believe the the

517
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 1: first documented evidence of the Evil Eye comes from ugarrit Uh,

518
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: an ancient city in modern day Syria. It was around

519
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: until it was destroyed in twelve fifty b c E

520
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: during the Bronze Age collapse. Check out our episode on that.

521
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: So we know that this is even older. You'll find

522
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: versions of it in Turkey and Greece and the Arab world,

523
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: even in Japan. It occurs in Uh. Some Jewish literature

524
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: it's an italy. It's it's nuts. What we can learn

525
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: from this is that people have been hating on each

526
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: other and concerned about haters since before people learn to

527
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: write things down. Yeah, I mean, it really is a

528
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: kind of part of the human condition is someone gets something,

529
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: inevitably another person is going to look at it and

530
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: want what that person has. Uh. And back in the day,

531
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, you might well get murdered for that thing,

532
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: you know, um, have it taken from you, um, you know,

533
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: right there on the street because it just wasn't there

534
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: weren't you know, systems in place to protect people from

535
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: from stuff like that. It really was kind of like

536
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: the survival of the fittest. This image, though specifically even

537
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: with the blue pigmentation, goes back to ancient Egypt. Uh.

538
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: The eye of Horace is a symbol that we we

539
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: all may be well familiar with. It's got this kind

540
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: of eye with like a really dope kind of like

541
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: brow thing protruding from the top. And then this like

542
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: awesome little kind of curly queue kind of goal and

543
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: ratio thing popping off the bottom, and that was buried

544
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: Pharaoh's to protect them um in the afterlife. And then

545
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: we even have. It's a really great article on BBC

546
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: dot com um about the history of this thing by

547
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: a guy named Quinn Hargetie, and he goes through kind

548
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: of the history of the thing, and the thing that's

549
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: a fascinating is it's just it's like parallel thinking across

550
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: these cultures that you're talking about. It's not like one

551
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: necessarily borrowed it from another, just sort of kind of

552
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: seemed to pop up, you know, separated by oceans. And

553
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, in the similar way that there are certain

554
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: gods in different pantheons that kind of mimic each other's

555
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: functions because you know, everyone needs to grow crops, everyone

556
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: needs to survive, everyone needs to be fertile or whatever.

557
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: So it makes sense that there would be a stand

558
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: in deity with similar abilities, you know, even if you know,

559
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: folks had never heard of Horace or or heard of

560
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, Zeus or Hephaestus. Yeah, I mean, and I

561
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: think that's understanding well, because people tend to have the

562
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: same concerns. The fancy word for what the evil Eye

563
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: as a protective sigil is is apotropaic magic. Protective magic,

564
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: the type of stuff that's meant to turn away harm

565
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: or evil influences. And it also makes sense that people

566
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: are speaking through their cultural framework to their uh you know,

567
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: really common experiences. Everybody has the same hardware. You communicate

568
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: a lot with your eyes, you know, so of course

569
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: people would be preoccupied with things like hands, things like eyes,

570
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There's way less emphasis on

571
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: things you don't think about as much like the elbow. Um. Also,

572
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: you know, of course known in scientific circles as the weakness,

573
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: super scientific term. No one's ever going to question that,

574
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: or has ever questioned it. Uh. The thing that's so

575
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: interesting too, is that if I had forgot about this.

576
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: The blue pigment or the blue color I think may

577
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: date back to the Greeks, um the idea that, um,

578
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: those with blue eyes were better at transmitting these uh curses. Yea,

579
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: it was a rarer i pigment at the time and

580
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: in that part of the world. Yeah. And blue eyes

581
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: in general, as we recognize them today, come from like

582
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: an ancient mutation in Estonia or something. It's it's fascinating.

583
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: I think green eyes were there too, but they were

584
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: sort of the pepsi to the coke. Blue eyes were

585
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: the way to go, And you know, you might you

586
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: shouldn't be surprised if you see stuff like this, like

587
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: you were describing all, if you see stuff like this

588
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: in the modern day. And I remember we're talking about

589
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: this previously. Uh. One of the folks were working with

590
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: was asking us how we would how we would rock

591
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: this charm. And my idea was that if I, if

592
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: I was convinced I needed uh some apotropeic magic and

593
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: I needed an evil eye. Knew it would be like

594
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: my first tattoo, one big evil eye on the chest,

595
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: and then my second tattoo another one on the back. Yeah,

596
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: cover the basis exactly. Uh. It really is is a

597
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: fascinating subject just because of a lot of the you know,

598
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: the way we see it kind of spreading throughout cultures. Plutarch,

599
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: who was a very you know, learned man and in

600
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: ancient Greek culture, was a philosopher and you know historian

601
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: as well, I mean too to a degree. Um. He

602
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: wrote the Symposiacs, in which he, you know, would espouse

603
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: kind of the best equivalent of science that they could

604
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: kind of muster at the time. And one of them

605
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: was the one that makes sense. We talked about this

606
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: at the at the thing that we did um the

607
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: idea that the eyes are such an important part of

608
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: of the of the human body, both functionally but also spiritually.

609
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: That you know, they say things like the eyes of

610
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: the windows of the soul, and if you can look

611
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: in a window, can't you also put stuff out of

612
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: a window? And the idea that the eyes are where

613
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: these evil kind of energies can be transmitted. Plutarch literally

614
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: believed that they were like invisible rays, like of energy

615
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: that could if if if made potent enough for harnessed,

616
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: harnessed correctly. Actually this is coming from this article in

617
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: BBC killed children or small animals. Yeah, yeah, Basically Plutarch

618
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: argued that some people are like Cyclops from the X

619
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: Men and they had laser eyes, are superman, you know

620
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's true we see and superpowers or

621
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: or or demons or you know, folks with kind of

622
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: other worldly abilities to be able to shoot fire lasers

623
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: out of your eyes, you know. And uh, the it's

624
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: important to say Plutarch was not alone in this, of course, Plato,

625
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: plenty of the Elder, many many people believed in this

626
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: and continued to do so today. So if you see

627
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: somebody doing that, uh, then don't give them a hard

628
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: time risk back their beliefs. And honestly, I'm always of

629
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: the mind that if someone is doing something that they

630
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: see as a protective measure and it's not hurting you

631
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: or impacting you in any way, then you know, don't

632
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: yuck there, yum, if it's important to them, be respectful.

633
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: I do think it's funny to have something like a

634
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: pentagram or a pentacle, you know, is meant to be

635
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: a protective sigil, but it's often incorrectly associated with like

636
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: devil worship, or it's seen as the opposite, as though

637
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: it's trying to cast a spell to hurt somebody or

638
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: represent the malice, the malicious kind of intent that the

639
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: evil I might um, But what it actually has been

640
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: to do is to protect you from these kind of negative,

641
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, energies. And of course there's the evil eye

642
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: hand sign. You'll have to check that out if we're

643
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: on YouTube for this part. Uh, you know, no, I

644
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: think at this point we've talked about some things that

645
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: could be genuinely frightening for people, and we've talked about

646
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: ancient practices in the modern day. But what if we

647
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: end today's episode by taking a taking a little break

648
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: to toss some evil eye protections up and looking into

649
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: a more modern thing that goes bump in the night,

650
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: and we have returned. Okay, So what if one thing

651
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: that went bump in the night wasn't a creature at all?

652
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: As strange as it may sound, for um, for a

653
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: pretty significant number of years, a lot of people in

654
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: parts of Asia were convinced that standing fans were a

655
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: one way ticket to an early grave. You might recognize

656
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: this urban legend as something called fan death. And the

657
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: idea is that if you leave of electric fan on

658
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: running in your home at night, or running in your room,

659
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: and you don't have a door open or a window cracked,

660
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: then you will die. And uh we talked about this previously,

661
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: actually checked off air to see if our power Mission

662
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: Control it her of it, and Paul you confirmed that

663
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: you had. What might surprise people is this belief was

664
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: prevalent in the early two thousands, which wasn't too long ago.

665
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, twenty years ago now, but not

666
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: too too long ago. It was really it really got

667
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot of attention in South Korea as well as

668
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: parts of Japan. And we talked a bit about why

669
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: people thought this would be dangerous. To be clear, they

670
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: didn't think it was demonic possession. They didn't think, you know,

671
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: it was some sort of curse. They thought there was

672
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: a scientific explanation for why leaving a fan on at

673
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: night would kill you. Yeah, it's weird, man. There's a couple. Ye.

674
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: What I think is uh my favorite one I think

675
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: is is slicing the molecules, chopping chopping them, chopping them

676
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: up like you know, too small to be functional. I guess,

677
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: I I don't know, but no, it is. I think

678
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: perhaps a combination of sort of like new technology, or

679
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: maybe not new technology, but like there's sort of like

680
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: a fear of change, um, you know in a part

681
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: of the country where things I think, or maybe we're

682
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: had been typically a little more analog in terms of

683
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. Although it is funny that you know,

684
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: you don't hear about this fear associated with ceiling fans

685
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: as much, specifically these like portable plug in standing fans.

686
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: And when you first brought this topic up and I

687
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: hear standing fans, I immediately thinking of, like, are those

688
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: like standing stones or these some sort of like weird

689
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: marker of druidic ritual or what are we talking here,

690
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: but now we're literally talking about like a tripod kind

691
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: of like caged fan. Yeah yeah, and I agree the

692
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: role of new technology had to play a sociological part here.

693
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: Let's talk through some of the other theories. One concern

694
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: was found in hypothermia. So, long story short, if you're

695
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: a human being, when you go to sleep, your metabolism

696
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: naturally slows down a bit. So people would argue that

697
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: because the air blowing on a sleeping person could ostensibly

698
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: cool them a little, that combined with a slower metabolism,

699
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: could lower your body temperature to the point that your

700
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: organs fail. Before we do a little myth busting with that,

701
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: when the next one is carbon dioxide poisoning, right, similar

702
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: to what was actually happening with with people in South Africa.

703
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: The idea here was that the fan admits uh these

704
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: chemicals while the motor runs in a closed room, and

705
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: it's the the carbon slowly asphyxiates anybody asleep there. So

706
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: those are the big explanations. I also think the one

707
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: about a fan mutilating oxygen molecules is the most interesting

708
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: because we live in a southern part of the United States,

709
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: where it gets very hot. And I've never had a

710
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: standing fan that that effective, you know, Uh this, so

711
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: if there was one, I would buy it, is what

712
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Uh, this urban legend, like it's strange. The

713
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: first reports date back to the nineteen twenties, but they

714
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: don't really take off till the seventies, and there may

715
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: have even been a little bit of a conspiracy of

716
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: foot which we'll get to at the end. But we

717
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: know that people are so concerned whether or not you

718
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: agree with this idea. People were so concerned that a

719
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: government agency, the Korean Consumer Protection Board, issued a safety

720
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: alert about it in two thousand and six, and they said,

721
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: if you're exposed to fans or air conditioners for too long,

722
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: you will lose water, you will begin to have hypothermia,

723
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: you could die from this carbon dioxide saturation. And it

724
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: claimed that from two thousand three to two thousand five,

725
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: at least twenty people died as a result of this.

726
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: But there's more to this story. I mean, we have

727
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: to we have to first off, say again, living in

728
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: the South, we know this all too well. An electric

729
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: fan doesn't really chill the air, just moves it around.

730
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: That's why if you've ever had a job in like

731
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: a hot kitchen or a warehouse, you've just been in

732
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: a place without a c you eventually noticed the fan

733
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: is just kind of making a breeze, But if the

734
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: air is still really hot, that breeze is gonna be

735
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: hot too. It doesn't do that much. Uh. Also hypothermia,

736
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: if you um, if you look at the temperature that's

737
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: required for oregon failure to come in, there's no way

738
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: that a fan is going to get your body to

739
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: that level. You have to drop your internal temperature, has

740
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: to drop it below eighty six degrees fahrenheit or thirty

741
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: degrees celsius. And I think the main thing, one thing

742
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: that's stuck with all of us, Matt as well, from

743
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: a production standpoint is most homes are not airtight like

744
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: across the world, They're not certainly not enough to cause suffocation.

745
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: Can you imagine how expensive it is to build just

746
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: one room like that, let alone an entire house. What

747
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: kind of doors do you have? Do you have to

748
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: have an airlock at that point? Right? I mean, we know,

749
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, I mean how difficult did it just from

750
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: like doing stuff in studios to you know, seal a room?

751
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: So that sound doesn't an escape and sound travels on air,

752
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: So in order for room to be completely like hermetically

753
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: sealed like that would not come with just like standard

754
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, construction, especially maybe in a part of the

755
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: country where things are even less tightly sealed to a degree,

756
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: like certain homes and maybe more rural parts of Asian

757
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: countries might have more traditional kind of like old school

758
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: um features like um, you know, would more would design

759
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: or like wood paneling or perhaps rice paper for for

760
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: windows and panels and things like that. Yeah, I mean,

761
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: I I don't know about you guys, but the only

762
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: fans that I've ever been really really concerned about have

763
00:45:54,640 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: been the um like old industrial style, uh, the old

764
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: blade fans if they don't have that wire cover and

765
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: then I'll be honest, you know, they have a paranoid

766
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: dude Jankee ceiling fans that like that's a pit in

767
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: the pendulum kind of thing. When as a matter of fact,

768
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: look and make sure minds off. You know, everybody's seen

769
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: those in the house, the ones that kind of swing

770
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: on their own little rhythm and vibe, and you have

771
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: to wonder how long it is before they decide to

772
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: take off for the ground. The good news is, uh,

773
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: nowadays most people don't believe this myth, but for some

774
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: it remains a better safe than sorry situation. You could say, look,

775
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: I'm not a crazy paranoid person, but just in case,

776
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: let me leave the door Ajar. And this is where

777
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: we get to the conspiracy, where I think we end

778
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: our episode today. We found in our research that there

779
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: are some pretty i won't say airtight ha ha. There's

780
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: some pretty campelling theories that the government of South Korea

781
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: at least may have helped spread the myth a little

782
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: bit as a way of combating skyrocketing energy use during

783
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: the very hot, humid summers in that country, in that

784
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: part of the world. So there we have it. There's

785
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: no proof of anyone actually experiencing fan death, but it's

786
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: easy to understand why some people decided to play it

787
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 1: safe and maybe to this day won't trust a fan

788
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: at night. And no, here, we have to here, we

789
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: have to call it a day. We'll be back in

790
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: just a few with part two of this, but we're

791
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: gonna have even more modern weird examples. We had one

792
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: that Matt's really into called the Ahul No spoilers. Yeah,

793
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: that's a fun one. Uh and uh the Night Dancers.

794
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: Of course we've got to go to the Philippines with

795
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: the as Swang and of course the White Lady. But

796
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: in the meantime, you know what I think we should do.

797
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: I think we should ask our fellow conspiracy realists if

798
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: there are any genuine beliefs in monsters in their neck

799
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: of the Obal Woods. Absolutely, I would love to hear

800
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: what some of the the myths and stories around where

801
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: you live might be, or if, in fact there are

802
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: ones that people genuinely steer clear of certain parts of

803
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: the woods to avoid because they think there's some truth

804
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: to them. Uh, let us know. You can reach out

805
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: to us via social media where we are conspiracy Stuff

806
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: on Twitter and YouTube, and Facebook, where we also have

807
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: a Facebook group called Here's where It Gets Crazy, or

808
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. And hey, while you're on

809
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: the internet, why don't you go and reserve yourself a

810
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: copy pre order a copy of our book stuff. They

811
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: don't want you to know. The book um available soon

812
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: October eleventh, In fact, any day now. It might be

813
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: out as this episode comes out as a matter of fact,

814
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: but either way, yes, get the to the your favorite

815
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: book store. Or platform of choice. We can't wait to

816
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts. You can also call us directly. We

817
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 1: have a phone number that's right. Say it with me

818
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K.

819
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: You'll hear a familiar voice. You will hear a beep

820
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: like so beep, and then you'll have three minutes there yours,

821
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: go nuts. Give yourself a cool nickname and appellation a

822
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: moniker an a k A. We love them. Tell us

823
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: what's on your mind, let us know if we can

824
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: use your name in or voice on the air, and

825
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: most importantly, don't edit yourself. If you have a story

826
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: that needs more than three minutes, we want to hear it.

827
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: We want those links, we want those photographs. We read

828
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: every single email we get. All you have to do

829
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: is drop us a line where we are conspiracy at

830
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you

831
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: to know is a production of I heart Radio. For

832
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart

833
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen your favorite shows.