WEBVTT - Introducing Brown Enough 0:00:14.036 --> 0:00:21.956 Push it. Hey, Ben, Hey, we are bringing our listeners 0:00:21.956 --> 0:00:25.236 something really special today. Do you remember earlier this year 0:00:25.276 --> 0:00:29.036 when we talked to Christopher vas about the real James 0:00:29.036 --> 0:00:33.916 Bond named Portfideo Rubiosa. Of course I remember that was amazing, 0:00:33.956 --> 0:00:37.516 What a great conversation episode. As well. Chris has his 0:00:37.596 --> 0:00:40.996 own podcast called brown Enough, where he breaks down what 0:00:41.076 --> 0:00:44.796 it means to be brown enough in America today. I've 0:00:44.836 --> 0:00:49.276 been listening to that podcast and he discusses identity, careers 0:00:49.636 --> 0:00:52.716 and being proud of who you are with other brown activists, 0:00:52.756 --> 0:00:55.956 creators and change makers. We think our listeners will really 0:00:55.996 --> 0:00:58.316 like it. So we're sharing right here one of our 0:00:58.356 --> 0:01:02.556 favorite episodes, and it's about that question what are you? Yeah? 0:01:02.636 --> 0:01:05.396 What are you? If you like? What are you? If 0:01:05.436 --> 0:01:07.596 you like what you're hearing? You can listen to brown 0:01:07.716 --> 0:01:11.556 Enough right now, Stitch or Apple Podcasts or wherever you 0:01:11.596 --> 0:01:17.396 listen to your podcasts. I am an artist and a 0:01:17.516 --> 0:01:21.396 writer and a cartoonist. This is Molica Garb. If her 0:01:21.476 --> 0:01:24.996 voice sounds familiar, that's probably because you've heard her on MPR, 0:01:25.196 --> 0:01:29.196 where she reports on things like the refugee crisis, gender equality, 0:01:29.236 --> 0:01:31.916 and women's health. And when she's not doing that she 0:01:32.036 --> 0:01:34.156 is drawing up a storm. It took me a long 0:01:34.196 --> 0:01:37.076 time to admit to myself that I was an artist. 0:01:37.236 --> 0:01:39.436 But I just felt like as a kind of person 0:01:39.476 --> 0:01:43.276 who needed to sort things out by writing or drawing, 0:01:43.916 --> 0:01:47.036 sort my emotions out. And I think that that is 0:01:47.116 --> 0:01:50.676 my true calling. And after spending years carrying a diary 0:01:50.676 --> 0:01:53.756 in her backpack where she wrote and doodled her feelings out, 0:01:54.396 --> 0:01:57.076 she finally answered her calling to become an artist. She 0:01:57.196 --> 0:02:00.356 just published a graphic memoir called It Won't Always Be 0:02:00.436 --> 0:02:02.996 Like This. It's sort of a follow up story to 0:02:03.036 --> 0:02:06.836 her first book, I Was There, American Dream And with 0:02:06.916 --> 0:02:08.996 a title like that, you know I needed to hear more. 0:02:12.276 --> 0:02:15.116 In this book, filled with red, white and blue colors, 0:02:15.676 --> 0:02:18.236 Molica shares her story about growing up as a first 0:02:18.236 --> 0:02:22.716 generation Filipino Egyptian American and trying to sort out her 0:02:22.756 --> 0:02:27.436 identity in the pre Internet world before tweets, selfies, TikTok videos, 0:02:27.436 --> 0:02:30.276 and Instagram posts were a thing. We're talking about a 0:02:30.316 --> 0:02:33.676 time when teens were heavenly influenced by pop culture. I'm 0:02:33.676 --> 0:02:36.556 talking about like when Sean Combs became p Diddy, or 0:02:36.556 --> 0:02:39.716 when Dawson from Dawson's Creek was every girl's illusion of 0:02:39.796 --> 0:02:42.876 love or when mean girls was a sort of actual 0:02:42.996 --> 0:02:45.916 reflection of what clicks and high schools were like. You know, 0:02:46.076 --> 0:02:49.596 the pop rockers, skaters, jocks, geeks. I wonder what new 0:02:49.596 --> 0:02:54.236 clicks they have these days. Anyway, Molica and I share 0:02:54.276 --> 0:02:58.036 the experience of having immigrant parents, and this graphic memoir 0:02:58.156 --> 0:03:00.716 is a tribute to families like ours who came to 0:03:00.756 --> 0:03:06.116 the US and tried to achieve this so called American dream. 0:03:06.236 --> 0:03:08.516 Today we are talking to Molica about her journey of 0:03:08.796 --> 0:03:13.116 own her artistry, navigating between three cultures and two religions, 0:03:13.396 --> 0:03:16.156 and that sticky, sticky question we have all heard before, 0:03:16.796 --> 0:03:22.316 what arguing I'm Christopher Reevas and this is brown enough 0:03:22.636 --> 0:03:45.476 stories between black and white? Here we go. I have 0:03:45.556 --> 0:03:48.716 this true admiration and love for artists, y'all. I think 0:03:48.756 --> 0:03:51.876 what we contribute to society gives us a better understanding 0:03:51.876 --> 0:03:54.316 of the world. And so I was surprised when I 0:03:54.316 --> 0:03:57.076 heard Molika say it took her some time to own 0:03:57.156 --> 0:04:00.716 that title of artists. Why did it take you so long? 0:04:00.876 --> 0:04:03.716 Because in my opinion, artists are like the most valuable 0:04:03.956 --> 0:04:06.676 parts of a society. You know, when a coup happens, 0:04:06.756 --> 0:04:08.756 they try and killed like the doctors of the lawyers 0:04:08.756 --> 0:04:11.276 in the art. So what took you so long to 0:04:11.356 --> 0:04:14.476 love that? I think I tried to fit the mold 0:04:14.516 --> 0:04:18.436 that my parents wanted me to sort of fit in, 0:04:18.556 --> 0:04:21.436 and that was, you need to do well in school, 0:04:21.596 --> 0:04:25.196 you need to graduate and do this big important thing 0:04:25.676 --> 0:04:29.516 working for a big important brand. And my aunt once 0:04:29.556 --> 0:04:33.596 told me about how in life everybody has a calling 0:04:33.636 --> 0:04:36.716 and it's not necessarily the work that you do on 0:04:36.756 --> 0:04:40.036 an everyday basis. It's about it's a thing that drives you. 0:04:40.076 --> 0:04:43.316 It's your emo, it's your modus operandi. I'd always been 0:04:43.316 --> 0:04:45.596 thinking about what that calling was for me, and it 0:04:45.676 --> 0:04:48.996 sort of clicked one day when I realized that I 0:04:49.196 --> 0:04:51.476 just kept a diary all the time, a notebook all 0:04:51.476 --> 0:04:55.076 the time in my bag in my twenties, and if 0:04:55.116 --> 0:04:57.916 anything that I saw that was happening to me, if 0:04:57.916 --> 0:05:00.316 I was angry, if I was sad, and I remember 0:05:00.316 --> 0:05:03.396 one day I drew a notebook doodle while I was 0:05:03.476 --> 0:05:05.836 riding the bus that said, gosh, I can't wait to 0:05:06.196 --> 0:05:08.276 write about this in my diary when I get home, 0:05:08.396 --> 0:05:11.396 because I had had bad day. And I realized that 0:05:10.996 --> 0:05:14.396 that's what artists do they mean they need to make 0:05:14.476 --> 0:05:18.276 things in order to understand the way the world works. 0:05:18.356 --> 0:05:20.916 And it was a really late realization for me. I 0:05:21.156 --> 0:05:23.676 only started cartooning in the past, you know, since I 0:05:23.716 --> 0:05:26.116 was thirty and I'm now thirty six, but had always 0:05:26.116 --> 0:05:29.276 been sort of a casual doodler. And once I realized 0:05:29.316 --> 0:05:31.556 that I was, like, it just clicked and things started 0:05:31.556 --> 0:05:37.436 moving for me professionally in my creative life. Molica turned 0:05:37.436 --> 0:05:40.556 her casual doodles in scribbles into cartoons with story arcs. 0:05:40.996 --> 0:05:43.516 Her comics have now been featured in places like The 0:05:43.556 --> 0:05:46.116 New York Times, the New Yorker, and you can also 0:05:46.156 --> 0:05:48.956 find them on MPR's website, like a recent one she 0:05:49.036 --> 0:05:51.476 did that I love called how to Stay Cool Without 0:05:51.516 --> 0:05:55.956 an Air Conditioner. They're really quite delightful and fun no 0:05:56.036 --> 0:05:59.316 matter who she's making comics for, though, Molicica is always 0:05:59.356 --> 0:06:02.676 taking inspiration from her own life. When she was growing up, 0:06:02.956 --> 0:06:05.796 that life was pretty unique thanks to her parents very 0:06:05.836 --> 0:06:15.636 diverse backgrounds. Your dad is from Egypt, your mom's from 0:06:15.636 --> 0:06:19.116 the Philippines. They both seemed very incredible in their own right. 0:06:19.436 --> 0:06:21.716 My mom this is before the me too area, obviously, 0:06:21.756 --> 0:06:24.796 but my mom was my dad's secretary. My dad was 0:06:24.836 --> 0:06:27.796 a general manager of a hotel in downtown La Or 0:06:27.796 --> 0:06:31.036 I think it was in Hollywood. My dad asked her 0:06:31.036 --> 0:06:33.676 out for a date and they went to go see 0:06:33.716 --> 0:06:36.876 like some Indiana Jones movie. That was it. They got 0:06:36.876 --> 0:06:40.756 married after six months, and they spoke English at home, obviously, 0:06:40.756 --> 0:06:43.396 because my dad is a native Arabic speaker and my 0:06:43.436 --> 0:06:46.156 mom's a native Tagalog speaker. And you know, the marriage 0:06:46.156 --> 0:06:49.436 didn't last. They obviously had a lot of cultural differences. 0:06:49.876 --> 0:06:53.116 And you know, I'm really glad that it didn't work out, 0:06:53.156 --> 0:06:57.636 because I got some really awesome siblings in their following marriages. 0:06:57.956 --> 0:07:00.676 But they're still really good friends. So they come from 0:07:00.756 --> 0:07:02.756 very different cultures, as you just said, and it didn't 0:07:02.796 --> 0:07:05.356 work out. But what did they have in common? That's 0:07:05.356 --> 0:07:10.876 a really, really good question that I've never considered before. Gosh, 0:07:10.956 --> 0:07:13.476 what do they have in common? I think they both 0:07:13.516 --> 0:07:15.756 really loved traveling. They had sort of set it up 0:07:15.796 --> 0:07:18.836 where my mom would be working for an airline and 0:07:18.916 --> 0:07:21.716 my dad worked for hotels, so for a while when 0:07:21.716 --> 0:07:24.316 they were married, they would travel around everywhere for free. 0:07:24.876 --> 0:07:27.876 So they both loved that. They're both very funny people. 0:07:28.236 --> 0:07:30.476 My dad has a great sense of humor, and my 0:07:30.516 --> 0:07:34.396 mom is hilarious. She's very sharp. They're both very smart. 0:07:35.236 --> 0:07:38.036 I think that they're both news junkies in a way. 0:07:38.196 --> 0:07:41.156 I think my mom corrects me on my own news knowledge, 0:07:41.476 --> 0:07:44.036 especially when it comes to celebrity news, and so does 0:07:44.076 --> 0:07:46.876 my dad, So they both liked to keep up on things. 0:07:47.596 --> 0:07:50.636 In twenty nineteen, you came out with your first graphic novel. 0:07:51.156 --> 0:07:55.596 I was their American dream. Who is they? They is 0:07:55.676 --> 0:07:59.956 my parents and my family who supported me and raised 0:07:59.956 --> 0:08:03.036 me as a young person and still do today. What 0:08:03.116 --> 0:08:06.196 do you think their dream was. I think their dream 0:08:06.276 --> 0:08:12.516 for me, like many immigrant parents of their generation who 0:08:12.556 --> 0:08:15.876 came to the United States, was that they wanted a 0:08:16.036 --> 0:08:20.196 child who could assimilate well into the United States, who 0:08:20.596 --> 0:08:23.716 would get the best education, go to the best colleges, 0:08:24.236 --> 0:08:28.316 have the best career opportunities, and sort of skip what 0:08:28.436 --> 0:08:31.196 they had to struggle with trying to adapt in America. 0:08:31.276 --> 0:08:35.556 Because I was naturally and perfectly American, I would just 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:39.516 slide right into perfection of the American dream of owning 0:08:39.516 --> 0:08:41.876 a home and everything. And I think one of the 0:08:41.916 --> 0:08:44.796 biggest things that my parents said, well, my dad said this, 0:08:44.916 --> 0:08:48.396 He said, I just didn't know that you had your 0:08:48.396 --> 0:08:52.676 own set of struggles being of, you know, second generation American. 0:08:52.956 --> 0:08:55.236 I thought that once we came here, like things would 0:08:55.276 --> 0:08:59.516 be perfect for you and great, And I was like, 0:09:00.716 --> 0:09:04.516 you didn't anticipate that I would have identity issues. He 0:09:04.556 --> 0:09:07.556 had always said to me, like, you have an American passport, 0:09:07.596 --> 0:09:10.356 you're American, and it's like you can say that all 0:09:10.356 --> 0:09:12.876 you want, but I don't really believe those words, like 0:09:13.036 --> 0:09:15.716 unless you I don't know. I felt like I had 0:09:15.756 --> 0:09:18.916 to do the work to actually believe those words, emotional work. 0:09:19.636 --> 0:09:24.116 If you could define assimilation in like a sentence, what 0:09:24.156 --> 0:09:27.676 would it be, well, I think in the olden days, 0:09:27.796 --> 0:09:33.756 when I was a kid in high school, assimilating meant 0:09:33.876 --> 0:09:39.796 shedding all aspects of my cultural identity, my Filipino noess 0:09:39.796 --> 0:09:42.836 and Egyptian noss and sort of and sort of taking 0:09:42.916 --> 0:09:47.076 on and being quote unquote white, which was what I 0:09:47.116 --> 0:09:52.596 equated with American. And once I could achieve passing as white, 0:09:53.156 --> 0:10:00.276 then I would be fully assimilated. And now I don't 0:10:00.396 --> 0:10:03.756 think that's true at all. Obviously. I think that's a 0:10:03.876 --> 0:10:07.276 very warped and horrible way of viewing what assimilation means. 0:10:07.476 --> 0:10:12.236 I think it's being really comfortable in your own cultural skin, 0:10:12.516 --> 0:10:15.996 like your own being really comfortable in who I am 0:10:16.036 --> 0:10:20.716 as a Filipino and Egyptian, and understanding the important role 0:10:20.876 --> 0:10:25.476 that my presence in America plays to this society, and 0:10:25.636 --> 0:10:30.196 feeling an immense sense of belonging in my own skin. 0:10:31.316 --> 0:10:33.316 And I think, in my today's definition, when I think 0:10:33.356 --> 0:10:36.516 about my own parents, I think about these are twenty 0:10:36.596 --> 0:10:41.396 year old kids, children with children who came from not 0:10:41.476 --> 0:10:45.356 much and decided to give their children something. And I 0:10:45.396 --> 0:10:49.116 believe that sometimes what we call assimilation is often just survival. 0:10:49.756 --> 0:10:53.876 Trying to give my child opportunity and trying to invest 0:10:53.956 --> 0:10:56.156 in the American dream, which is really just the story 0:10:56.156 --> 0:11:00.276 of mobility. And whatever I have to do to receive 0:11:00.316 --> 0:11:03.076 a check in order to make that happen, often from 0:11:03.076 --> 0:11:07.156 white employers, is what I am going to do or 0:11:07.276 --> 0:11:14.436 teach or facilitate. Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean I remember, 0:11:14.716 --> 0:11:16.676 I mean, I remember I was taught that, you know, 0:11:16.756 --> 0:11:19.836 from my parents and family. I mean, um, one of 0:11:19.876 --> 0:11:22.356 the biggest I mean, I wrote this about this in 0:11:22.396 --> 0:11:24.356 my book. I was their American Dream. But you know, 0:11:25.076 --> 0:11:30.316 my uncle Titomorrow Tito means uncle Intagalog. You know, he 0:11:30.396 --> 0:11:33.636 told me that I was so lucky for going to 0:11:33.716 --> 0:11:37.916 a white school, like predominantly white school like Syracuse, where 0:11:38.036 --> 0:11:40.236 I could really learn from the white people and I 0:11:40.236 --> 0:11:44.636 would get this first this first class, you know, look 0:11:44.796 --> 0:11:50.916 at an examination. I could at this first class front 0:11:51.036 --> 0:11:55.796 row seat into into white people and to really observe 0:11:56.036 --> 0:11:58.996 their manner of dress and how they ate with a 0:11:59.076 --> 0:12:02.956 fork and a knife, and how they introduced themselves. And 0:12:04.756 --> 0:12:07.636 you know, it just makes me sad thinking about it. 0:12:08.156 --> 0:12:11.196 That was telling me to carry myself with the confidence 0:12:11.236 --> 0:12:13.996 of a mediocre white man. Did you really say that 0:12:13.996 --> 0:12:15.996 to you? Yeah? Or me knowing as a child to 0:12:16.076 --> 0:12:19.516 be on the subway, like looking at the Wall Street boys, 0:12:19.556 --> 0:12:22.036 because I would take the sixth down to Wall Street. 0:12:22.036 --> 0:12:24.956 I had like a little job down there, and I 0:12:24.996 --> 0:12:27.116 would go from the Upper East Side to Wall Street 0:12:27.516 --> 0:12:33.396 and I would watch these these these men, often white men, 0:12:33.436 --> 0:12:36.556 who seem to not have a worry in the world, 0:12:37.076 --> 0:12:40.636 and I would study them, study that would study absolutely. 0:12:40.716 --> 0:12:44.316 I would absolutely study them too. And you know what 0:12:44.356 --> 0:12:47.476 I hate is that when I did graduate, you know, 0:12:47.996 --> 0:12:50.716 my family was right to some extent, right, there is 0:12:50.756 --> 0:12:54.756 a code, there's like some code that I didn't learn 0:12:54.836 --> 0:12:58.516 from them, But I learned from observing of how to 0:12:58.636 --> 0:13:01.956 be and how to act in a predominantly white space, 0:13:03.196 --> 0:13:06.716 A lot of confidence when you introduced yourself. You know, 0:13:06.756 --> 0:13:11.436 in Filipino culture you're very deferential and very very gentle 0:13:11.996 --> 0:13:15.396 when you enter a space. You don't want to make 0:13:15.396 --> 0:13:18.756 too much draw too much attention to yourself you have 0:13:18.876 --> 0:13:22.196 you don't in American culture. The early bird catches the worm. 0:13:22.276 --> 0:13:25.876 The loudest duck, you know, you know, makes moves, and 0:13:25.956 --> 0:13:31.076 that's not how how Filipinos exert or sort of show 0:13:32.036 --> 0:13:35.916 their power. So in reading your book, I was fascinated 0:13:35.956 --> 0:13:40.196 by what felt like heavy diversity in your high school. 0:13:40.196 --> 0:13:42.836 Can you tell me about city those, California. Yeah, it 0:13:42.916 --> 0:13:45.476 was such a great place to grow up. So Cerritos 0:13:45.596 --> 0:13:49.396 is south of la It was a predominantly Asian and 0:13:49.476 --> 0:13:55.116 Hispanic community. A lot of Filipinos, Koreans, Chinese people, a 0:13:55.116 --> 0:13:59.516 lot of Mexican people, a lot of Portuguese people, and 0:13:59.636 --> 0:14:02.916 there were a few black and white people, maybe almost equal, 0:14:03.156 --> 0:14:05.716 I would say. And a lot of the leadership in 0:14:05.836 --> 0:14:09.396 Cerritos were Asian, which was pretty cool. Our mayor have 0:14:09.476 --> 0:14:12.236 been Asian when I was growing up. People who worked 0:14:12.236 --> 0:14:14.476 at the library, you could see that they were Asian 0:14:14.876 --> 0:14:23.076 and Hispanic, like, it was very diverse all around. Yeah, all, 0:14:23.076 --> 0:14:26.356 I gotta say, said, ETOs reminds me of my own hometown, Queens, 0:14:26.436 --> 0:14:29.236 New York. I was very fortunate to grow up around 0:14:29.236 --> 0:14:33.316 so much diversity. Queens is the melting pot, y'all. If 0:14:33.316 --> 0:14:35.796 you take the seven train down Roosevelt Avenue, you will 0:14:35.836 --> 0:14:39.076 get a taste of just about everything. Warm Colombian pastry, 0:14:39.116 --> 0:14:44.516 spicy Indian curry, Mexican tacos, Italian pasta, Italian ICs. I 0:14:44.556 --> 0:14:46.716 could go on and make a menu, but we don't 0:14:46.716 --> 0:14:49.756 have time for that. Did you know that that was 0:14:49.796 --> 0:14:53.516 an amazing thing then? No? I mean now, looking back, like, 0:14:53.516 --> 0:14:55.996 I feel like it's freaking amazing. I wrote about this 0:14:56.116 --> 0:14:58.356 in the La Times and like a comic op ed 0:14:58.636 --> 0:15:02.716 about how I reminisced with my high school friends. Dude, 0:15:02.756 --> 0:15:05.036 why didn't we ever talk about how amazing it was 0:15:05.076 --> 0:15:06.836 to grow up in a place like Cerritos when we 0:15:06.836 --> 0:15:09.556 were in high school? And we talked about how conversation 0:15:09.596 --> 0:15:13.156 around race has changed so much in the past few decades, 0:15:13.956 --> 0:15:15.556 and we were able to sort of reflect on that 0:15:15.596 --> 0:15:17.636 a little bit in that piece. But one of the 0:15:17.676 --> 0:15:19.676 things that was really cool about it was that there 0:15:19.756 --> 0:15:24.916 was this like cultural exchange and this profound sensitivity around 0:15:24.956 --> 0:15:31.036 other people's cultures. Now, going back to Queens again, if 0:15:31.036 --> 0:15:35.236 you find yourself in Jackson Heights where you have Colombian, Dominican, Ecuadorian, 0:15:35.436 --> 0:15:39.756 or Mexican communities, there's an understanding between them and respect. 0:15:40.356 --> 0:15:45.076 The district embraces and celebrates each country with gratitude. So 0:15:45.156 --> 0:15:47.076 I was struck when I got to her chapter about 0:15:47.116 --> 0:15:50.396 the most important question in her high school what are you? 0:15:53.076 --> 0:15:54.916 What did it mean to you back then in high school? 0:15:55.076 --> 0:15:58.796 And how is it evolved? Okay, to be real, what 0:15:58.916 --> 0:16:04.156 are you? Question really almost was like social currency, right, 0:16:04.276 --> 0:16:07.636 Like there was a hierarchy of Asians, which I'm sure 0:16:07.676 --> 0:16:11.076 you've heard about the hierarchy of Asians. I've heard about it, 0:16:11.116 --> 0:16:14.716 but tell others have not, Okay, So, like the hierarchy 0:16:14.716 --> 0:16:17.796 of Asians was this horrible thing that I'd learned in 0:16:17.876 --> 0:16:19.636 high school. And I hope that others like, I mean, 0:16:19.676 --> 0:16:22.356 this is awful, And I just knew that Filipinos like 0:16:22.396 --> 0:16:24.356 myself or at the bottom of the hierarchy of Asians. 0:16:24.516 --> 0:16:27.676 But um, so it was like all the East Asians 0:16:27.676 --> 0:16:31.436 at the top, like the Japanese, then like Chinese and Korean, 0:16:31.636 --> 0:16:34.956 and then like all the brown Asians, like if you 0:16:34.956 --> 0:16:39.076 were Vietnamese or from Laos or Cambodia, you know, you 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:40.956 were sort of at the bottom. And I think that 0:16:40.956 --> 0:16:45.756 that was also like some weird people could be like, oh, okay, 0:16:45.956 --> 0:16:49.236 so you're Filipino. Okay. And it's also like a way 0:16:49.236 --> 0:16:52.196 of like a lot of people in school was still 0:16:52.196 --> 0:16:56.116 pretty segregated. So if you were Korean, you would be 0:16:56.156 --> 0:16:58.396 hanging out likely with a bunch of other Korean girls. 0:16:58.596 --> 0:17:01.876 If you were Mexican American into hot topic, like you 0:17:01.956 --> 0:17:04.716 had your own group. If you were Chinese and love 0:17:04.796 --> 0:17:08.196 like magic the gathering, like you were in your own subgroup. 0:17:08.636 --> 0:17:12.396 I I think that it was a understanding what your 0:17:12.596 --> 0:17:15.196 culture was because I think that there was a high 0:17:15.356 --> 0:17:20.436 level of sensitivity for that, but also be understanding where okay, 0:17:20.476 --> 0:17:23.596 so what's your social standing in the list of like 0:17:24.316 --> 0:17:27.796 cool races, which is also horrible. So for example, like 0:17:27.876 --> 0:17:31.876 Portuguese guys at Cerrito's high school were considered the quote 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:35.956 unquote whitest guys, and being like a white Portuguese guy 0:17:36.156 --> 0:17:38.756 was like better than being like a white Hispanic guy. 0:17:38.996 --> 0:17:42.356 This is look I'm only repeating things that are that 0:17:42.916 --> 0:17:45.196 was from high school. Please don't crucify me for this 0:17:45.276 --> 0:17:53.196 on Twitter. I'm just saying what we believe back then. Horrible. Seriously, y'all, 0:17:53.476 --> 0:17:57.476 don't crucify Milico on Twitter. She's sharing her high school experience, 0:17:57.956 --> 0:18:00.796 one that I can also relate to. I'm back home 0:18:00.796 --> 0:18:03.396 in New York. Dominicans and Puerto Ricans were at the 0:18:03.436 --> 0:18:06.316 top of the hierarchy, and maybe because we got the 0:18:06.316 --> 0:18:10.476 biggest parades, we earned some extra points. All right, y'all, 0:18:10.516 --> 0:18:12.676 We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, 0:18:13.036 --> 0:18:15.516 Molica is going to tell us how that what are 0:18:15.636 --> 0:18:36.436 you question changed when she went to college. Yo, we 0:18:36.476 --> 0:18:40.636 are back with journalist and cartoonist Malica Gharib. When you 0:18:40.676 --> 0:18:43.196 get to college, you realize no one's asking this question, 0:18:43.796 --> 0:18:46.596 and you sort of miss being asked it. Correct. Yeah, 0:18:46.636 --> 0:18:49.836 I did. I was around a lot of white people, 0:18:49.916 --> 0:18:52.956 a lot of white students and friends, and it just 0:18:52.956 --> 0:18:56.676 seemed like a very very awkward thing to broach. People 0:18:56.676 --> 0:19:00.676 didn't know how to talk about it. I found it 0:19:00.956 --> 0:19:03.636 a very crucial point for me to mention that I 0:19:03.716 --> 0:19:07.676 was Filipino and Egyptian. It seemed very important to share 0:19:07.996 --> 0:19:10.956 or disclose as part of If they really wanted to 0:19:10.996 --> 0:19:15.156 know who I was, then they should also understand these 0:19:15.196 --> 0:19:17.756 aspects of myself. But it felt like that time and 0:19:17.836 --> 0:19:22.036 the moment never really came up, and it was always 0:19:22.076 --> 0:19:24.836 like a little awkward because I think they just didn't 0:19:24.876 --> 0:19:26.676 want to address it at all, because they didn't know, 0:19:27.196 --> 0:19:29.916 they didn't want to say anything quote unquote racist. So 0:19:30.836 --> 0:19:34.476 only after my book came out, I was their American dream. 0:19:34.516 --> 0:19:36.356 I had a lot of college friends coming back to 0:19:36.396 --> 0:19:39.036 me and saying like, I'm so sorry. I never like 0:19:39.156 --> 0:19:42.436 asked you about like your culture or like things that 0:19:42.516 --> 0:19:45.196 you like doing at home with your family, or you know. 0:19:45.396 --> 0:19:47.396 I had a lot of like subtle racist things being 0:19:47.436 --> 0:19:50.836 told to me by friends. Had a roommate once who 0:19:51.236 --> 0:19:54.636 my mom shipped this plastic container of I think it 0:19:54.716 --> 0:19:58.556 was like caldaretta, which is like some beef stew, and 0:19:58.676 --> 0:20:01.036 she would always comment every day about how the fridge 0:20:01.036 --> 0:20:05.636 smelled so intense and anyway, I was like, I just 0:20:05.676 --> 0:20:08.476 wish that we could have had more open conversations about race, 0:20:08.516 --> 0:20:10.396 but nobody know how talk about it. Then. You know, 0:20:10.436 --> 0:20:13.876 that was like two thousand four. I mean people are 0:20:13.876 --> 0:20:16.916 still struggling to talk about it now. Yeah, please do 0:20:16.996 --> 0:20:20.076 some enlightening for us, because I think the world still 0:20:20.116 --> 0:20:23.036 struggles with this. What is another less rude way to say? 0:20:23.476 --> 0:20:26.436 What are you? Um? How do you identify? And I 0:20:26.436 --> 0:20:28.716 think that for a lot of people that that opens 0:20:28.796 --> 0:20:32.596 up a lot. Everyone could be asked that question. We 0:20:32.676 --> 0:20:35.636 have to ask that now at work for a diversity 0:20:35.716 --> 0:20:39.516 questionnaire with every source that we interview, and it's an 0:20:39.516 --> 0:20:42.356 open ended question and people could answer it in any 0:20:42.356 --> 0:20:45.836 way they like. It's a question for everybody. You mentioned 0:20:45.836 --> 0:20:47.916 your uncle Tito earlier, and in the book you talk 0:20:47.956 --> 0:20:50.916 about him a lot. He told you about the real world. 0:20:51.276 --> 0:20:53.596 He said there will be expectations on you as a 0:20:53.636 --> 0:20:56.796 brown woman and that you needed to learn them. Was 0:20:56.916 --> 0:21:00.836 your uncle Tito right? Yeah he was, And that's um 0:21:00.876 --> 0:21:05.116 tit tomorrow to you. That's right, my bad. He was 0:21:05.156 --> 0:21:09.236 absolutely right, it was. It was shockingly accurate. I think 0:21:09.236 --> 0:21:11.756 that one of the first places I worked was a 0:21:11.996 --> 0:21:19.116 corporate ad agency and I highly observed, you know, how 0:21:19.156 --> 0:21:22.836 other people dressed collared shirts. I came from like a 0:21:22.876 --> 0:21:26.916 punk style in la where people were very casual and 0:21:26.956 --> 0:21:29.396 laid back and had surfer style and that kind of thing, 0:21:29.876 --> 0:21:31.436 and I just had sort of had to adapt to 0:21:31.476 --> 0:21:35.996 that environment. I once was invited to a dinner with 0:21:36.076 --> 0:21:39.836 like a professor and another colleague of his and some students, 0:21:39.836 --> 0:21:41.596 and like we were eating at a fancy dinner table 0:21:41.596 --> 0:21:43.356 with like lots of forks and knives, and I had 0:21:43.396 --> 0:21:46.716 to like I literally had like a movie moment where 0:21:46.756 --> 0:21:50.156 I was like, um, I'll ordered the chicken extra rare, 0:21:50.396 --> 0:21:51.756 like you know what I mean. Like, I just like 0:21:51.796 --> 0:21:53.636 didn't know what to do, so I just like copied 0:21:53.676 --> 0:21:58.716 whatever my other white classmates were doing. But lots of 0:21:58.716 --> 0:22:01.356 little moments like that, learning how to pronounce things. I 0:22:01.476 --> 0:22:05.756 once said prove it proven instead of proven in a 0:22:05.836 --> 0:22:08.076 meeting and got laughed at and I was like, all right, 0:22:08.076 --> 0:22:10.476 there's like a way that I have to be, which sucks. 0:22:10.676 --> 0:22:13.596 But I had to put on my white voice. That 0:22:13.636 --> 0:22:15.316 was way back in the day. I just wanted to 0:22:15.316 --> 0:22:17.876 preface it with that that was a long time ago. 0:22:18.076 --> 0:22:19.956 I do not do that anymore. Do you have your 0:22:19.956 --> 0:22:23.556 book on you by chance? Yeah? Can you read us 0:22:23.556 --> 0:22:30.836 page forty seven? Yeah? Of course. I wish that I 0:22:30.836 --> 0:22:33.796 could have smushed them all together into one faith. So 0:22:34.076 --> 0:22:37.316 for most of my childhood I did dear God and 0:22:37.436 --> 0:22:40.516 the Virgin Mary, but sorry, not you Jesus. Please let 0:22:40.516 --> 0:22:42.596 me get the good grade on my quiz tomorrow, and 0:22:42.716 --> 0:22:45.276 don't let me get in trouble at math class. Please 0:22:45.316 --> 0:22:50.036 watch over Mom and Dad and mimminentti tomorrow and nanayantatai Amen, 0:22:50.196 --> 0:22:54.916 I mean a mean how Muslims say? Amen? Can you 0:22:54.956 --> 0:22:59.556 imagine being in these two worlds? Catholics have Jesus and 0:22:59.756 --> 0:23:03.836 Adam and Eve, Muslims have Mohammed. Catholics celebrate Christmas and 0:23:03.996 --> 0:23:07.236 Muslims do not. Catholics can eat just about everything, but 0:23:07.396 --> 0:23:11.396 Muslims can't eat pork. As complicated as it seemed, Monica 0:23:11.476 --> 0:23:14.196 always honored and respected what her parents taught her to 0:23:14.196 --> 0:23:20.756 believe in. Both my mom and dad were very religious. 0:23:20.796 --> 0:23:23.876 I mean not like fanatically religious, but they were certainly 0:23:23.956 --> 0:23:26.236 like you know, my mom had a statue of the 0:23:26.316 --> 0:23:29.716 Virgin Mary in her bedroom and believed in that one day, 0:23:30.116 --> 0:23:32.676 you know, the Virgin Mary had appeared to her. And 0:23:32.756 --> 0:23:35.636 my father did go to the mosque every Friday. So 0:23:35.716 --> 0:23:40.516 I understood from the jump that my parents religion was 0:23:40.676 --> 0:23:43.756 deeply important to them, and therefore I should respect that. 0:23:44.356 --> 0:23:46.716 And by respecting that, as a young person. You sort 0:23:46.756 --> 0:23:49.676 of are instilled with this code of conduct. And for 0:23:49.716 --> 0:23:52.796 me that was you know, if my mom asked me 0:23:52.836 --> 0:23:54.956 to go to church with her, I would go. If 0:23:54.956 --> 0:23:56.996 she wanted me to go to Catholic school, I was 0:23:57.036 --> 0:24:00.396 obedient and I said yes. I went through Confirmation and 0:24:00.476 --> 0:24:04.356 Communion and all of it, and with my dad. My 0:24:04.436 --> 0:24:07.236 dad really wanted me to memorize suras, which is like 0:24:07.276 --> 0:24:11.436 the prayers from the Koran, and one how to pray, 0:24:11.556 --> 0:24:14.596 you know, dress conservatively when I was around him, and 0:24:14.756 --> 0:24:18.156 just in Egypt in general, and you know, not eat 0:24:18.156 --> 0:24:20.516 pork and things like that. What are your favorite things 0:24:20.556 --> 0:24:22.956