WEBVTT - Jake Sullivan 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.200 One of the president's closest advisors is Jake Sullivan. He 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.840 was the nationals curity advisor and the second youngest person 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.800 to hold that job at the age of forty three. 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.200 I sat down with him recently here in the executive 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.200 office building to discuss a wide range of international issues 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.160 and national security issues affecting the president and our country. 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.639 So let me get right to the heart of Ukraine. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.239 If I could ask you, is there any chance of 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.160 a resolution in Ukraine matter anytime the foreseeable future? Any 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.600 possibility of a truce or some kind of agreement that 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.240 you think could end this war in the next few 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.400 months or so? You never say never. There's always a 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.360 chance and we've been clear from the beginning that we 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:43.159 would support a diplomatic solution that vindicated Ukraine's right to 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.519 sovereignty and territorial integrity. But the odds of it in 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:48.920 the next few months, I think, are quite low. On China, 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.320 the President United States has not met with G G 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.680 Ping for covid related reasons, but there isn't possibility they 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.120 might meet in the upcoming meeting. Do you have any 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:02.000 plans to have a UM agreement or any kind of 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.600 proposed settlements of any issues that are now ongoing between 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.560 the two countries, or is it just more more or 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.280 less and meet and greet with no advanced planning of 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.200 any great consequence? Well, right now there's no meeting planned but, 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.680 as you say, they will both be in Bali, Indonesia, 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.440 for the g twenty in November and it would afford 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:22.280 an opportunity for the two of them to sit down 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.200 in person. Actually, despite the fact that they've spent a 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.520 huge amount of time together when Joe Biden was vice president, 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.920 they've not met in person since President Biden became president, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.240 and that's because Si jimping has basically not left China 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.679 in two years due to covid nineteen. So this would 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.240 be their first real chance to sit face to face 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.840 and talk through the full range of issues in the relationship. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.520 I wouldn't expect major agreements to come out of that, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.080 but if they do actually sit and again that's hasn't 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.640 been decided Um, I would expect that we would see 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.480 some progress on some issues where the two countries interest 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.360 DU align. As we talk today, it's come out that 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.160 President Putin will be meeting with President Shei Jiping, most 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.919 likely somewhere in Europe not too long from now. was 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.880 that a surprise to you, and what do you think 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.480 they're going to be talking about? Well, it's not a surprise. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.560 President she and President Putin have met frequently over the 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.560 course of each of their tenure and in fact President 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.200 Putin went to Beijing earlier this year and met in 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.840 person with president she in February when they rolled out 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.720 this new partnership between the two countries. So I think 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.280 that they'll talk about the full range of issues in 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.000 their relationship. But I would note two things. First, before 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:41.000 president she goes to Uzbekistan to meet with President Uh 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.559 Putin on the sidelines of another summit, he's going to Kazakhstan, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.360 and Kazakhstan is a place where actually China and Russia 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.960 compete for influence. So it's an indication that this is 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.959 a relationship not without its complications. And then second, China 0:02:55.120 --> 0:03:00.320 has actually stood back from fully getting in the hind 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.520 the Russians when it comes to their war in Ukraine. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.760 We have not seen them provide large scale support in 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:10.840 terms of weapons or industrial scale efforts to undermine western sanctions. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.480 So from our perspective, this relationship is something that bears 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:18.400 close watching, but again, is not without its complications. As 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.120 we talk, if there's also reports that North Korea is 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.639 selling weapons to Russia, was that a surprise to the administration? Well, 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.600 what it indicates actually is that Russia doesn't have a 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.359 lot of options. It appears to be running short of 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.160 its own munitions. It looks around the world and doesn't 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.000 find a lot of countries willing to sell it munition, 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.720 so it has to look to states like Iran and 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:44.560 North Korea to get ammunition and other forms of weaponry 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.280 to be able to sustain its conflict in Ukraine. This 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.040 is not, in our view, a demonstration of strength by Russia. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:56.000 Now the negotiations with Iran to restore, if that's the 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.680 right verb, the nuclear agreement is ongoing. It's been going 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.280 going for quite some time. Do you see any resolution 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.600 of that in the near future, and not in the 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.600 coming days? Uh, the Iranians have come back with a 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.720 set of counter proposals which we are still taking a 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.720 look at, but it doesn't suggest that an agreement is 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.640 uh imminent right away. That being said, we do believe 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.440 that there still is a pathway to a compliance for 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.800 compliance returned to the J C P O a. We 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.760 will continue to work on that with our partners, particularly 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.600 our European partners, and if Iran is prepared to do 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.880 its part to get back into the J C P 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.159 O A, we stand ready to do so. And as 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.359 we talk, the new Prime Minister of UK has been announced. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.080 Previously involved in foreign policy. H Have you met her before? 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.440 I have met her before. I've met her here in 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.560 the White House, right down the hall from where we 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.279 are right now, when she was foreign secretary. She's transitioned 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.640 from being essentially their secretary of state to being their 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.000 prime minister and actually just yesterday President Biden had the 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.760 opportunity to have a long phone call with her just 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.159 hours after she had assumed her new position. And do 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.800 you expect any change in the UK US policy as 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.919 a result of her becoming prime minister? At a foundational level? No, uh, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.680 you know, this is a special relationship. The two of 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.800 them reaffirmed their commitment to the strength and vitality of 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.200 the U S UK alliance and I think on all 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.400 of the major issues, whether it's Russia or China or 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:29.240 iron you'll see the same kind of Um, deep consultation 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.880 and engagement between the two countries that you've seen before, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.120 regardless of whose president, regardless of whose prime minister. So 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.880 I don't expect that there will be any fundamental changes 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.920 in the relationship. But you know, there will be issues 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.200 that we have to work through, of course, as there 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.840 always are. Now, as we talk, the U N General 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.960 Assembly will be meeting not too long from now in 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.120 New York, as it does every year. Um, do you 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.000 think the U N has still a useful purpose in diplomacy, 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.560 because it doesn't seem to be able to solve any problems? 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.280 Ongoing war problems that we now see in us are 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.400 Ukraine or Russia. What do you think is the U 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.400 N's main purpose at this point? Well, the UN actually 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:10.320 has proved its continued effectiveness in actually being able to 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.360 bring about diplomatic agreements in very difficult circumstances. I'll give 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.040 you just two examples from the past few months. First, 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.279 on Russia Ukraine. It was the U N Secretary General, 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.719 Antonio Guterres, who played a central role in getting a 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.160 deal between Russia and Ukraine for the export of grain 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.799 from both Ukrainian ports and Russian ports in the Black Sea. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.320 That's helping the entire world with respect to lowering food 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:40.760 prices and expanding access to food stuffs at a critical moment. Second, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.440 it was a UN mediator, working with our US envoy, 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:50.320 the Saudis and marats and the Yemenis who helped produce, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.080 earlier this year, a ceasefire in the war and Yemen, 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.360 which had been the worst humanitarian catastrophe in the world. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.400 That ceasefire is now going on six months, the longest 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.880 period of peace in seven years in Yemen, and the 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.800 UN played a key role in that. So it is 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.800 not without its difficulties and complications. It is a big 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.720 bureaucracy in need of constant reform, but the UN is 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.800 still there on key issues, in diplomacy, in delivering on 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.320 global health, Global Food Security and other issues, and all 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:21.960 of that will be on display in New York in 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.400 two weeks now. Recently the president made a major speech 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.440 on democracy, and in it he talked about the values 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.640 of democracy, which is large part of our foreign policy, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.920 which is to promote democracy around the world. Our events 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:34.560 in the United States or the last year or so 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.560 making it more difficult for the US to stay to 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.840 other countries looking how wonderful our democracy has worked, and 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.040 therefore you should be following some of the things we 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.720 do well. It does require a degree of humility. I 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.560 mean the United States does need to acknowledge that we 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.240 have our own difficulties and challenges within our own democracy, 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.200 even as we tout and promote democratic institutions, rule of 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.000 law human rights around the world. But I think President 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.800 Biden is actually a very good messenger for that, someone 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.400 who can speak honestly and clearly to the American people 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.600 about the strains in our democracy and then someone who 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.440 can speak honestly and clearly to the world about how, 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:16.240 despite all of its imperfections, democracy remains the best form 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.480 of government for delivering for citizens and for promoting human dignity. 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.920 Let's talk a moment about your own background. You are 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.120 not generally out there promoting your background. It's quite impressive 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:27.640 and I just want to let people know about it 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.400 a bit. You grew up in Minnesota, that's right, and 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.280 I guess you were a superstar in elementary school, junior 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.400 high school, high school. You're a president of your class, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.000 President Student Government. Is there anything you failed to do 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.439 in high school that you wanted to do? Well, uh, 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.640 I didn't win all the cross country races that I 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.840 wanted to win. I guess. Yeah, but you went to Yale. Yeah, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.080 and Yale you must have done. Reasonaly, while you were 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.640 elected as a Rhodes scholar and from Oxford, you later 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.080 came back and went to Yale law school and you 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.240 were a top editor there and became a Supreme Court 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.040 clerk for Justice Brier. So did you, when you're having 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.040 this career, do you ever think that you could make 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.240 a mistake or your career could kind of go off 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.199 the deep end or something, because everything was working out 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.640 perfectly well? It's true that I have had these incredible opportunities, 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.080 but at every one of those stages I went through 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.800 the same fears and growing pains and slip ups and 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.920 stumbles that everybody did. And you know, that was true 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.960 with respect to academic work that was far from perfect. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.640 It was true with respect to relationships that didn't work out. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.040 You know, it's I I had what I think was, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:38.800 you know, an incredibly lucky childhood and upbringing, but one 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.480 that it was not too different from the way a 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.400 lot of other people who grew up in the Midwest 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.760 in the nineteen eighties and and then, you know, got 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:47.960 to have these chances. Your father and mother, what did 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.760 they do? So my father worked on the business side 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.080 of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which was the major newspaper 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.240 in Minneapolis. My mother was a teacher and a guidance 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.480 counselor in the Minneapolis public schools. And I'm one of five. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.080 I'm the second of five kids and we all went 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.080 to the Minneapolis public schools, graduated from Southwest High School. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.840 And your siblings do they say look, you're too good, 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:12.920 you're a Rhodes scholar, you're a Yett Law Journal and 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.319 everything are there's no sibling rivalries. I mean actually, I 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.880 would say my sister is probably the most impressive among us. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.280 She's a pediatrician. She was a two sports division one 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.640 athlete and Um, she's got five kids, uh, and is 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.720 currently working at the Department of Health and Human Services 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:36.280 on covid nineteen and other UM pandemic responses. So I'm 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.680 like kind of middle of the pack in terms of 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.440 my siblings. There was another person who was a Rhodes scholar, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.320 went the law school who became President United States, Bill Clinton. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.880 So have you ever thought of running for office yourself? 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.480 I used to think about it but honestly, over the 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.720 course of the years I think my skills are better 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.160 suited to public service in a not elected format Um 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.000 and I'd rather help other people who I think would 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.600 be better suited for actually running for office these talk 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.480 for a moment about what it's like to be the 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.080 nation security advisor. The NA security advisor office was set up, 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.439 I think, in the Eisenhower administration, more or less, though 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.480 President Truman had a Nashecurity advisor as well. Your job, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.000 as they get in early every day, make sure there's 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.080 no crisis or there is a crisis, tell the president. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.280 Are you seeing the president early in the morning and 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.160 briefing him? Is that what you do, as as many 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.720 have done before? Yes, so in the morning we have 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.840 something called the President's daily brief that takes place in 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:33.920 the Oval Office and it's myself, my two deputies and 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:38.040 then the director of national intelligence who are there every day, 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.959 and then we also bring in other cabinet members depending 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.520 on what the subjects are being briefed so that he 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.720 gets the president gets exposure to his full national security 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.800 team over the course of the week and we talked 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.480 to him about things that have developed overnight around the 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.840 world and we also talked to him about longer term 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.680 trends that he expresses interest in and wants to stay 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.160 on top of. So it's a mix of both the 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.160 immediate term and the long term and it gives him 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.360 a full picture of the challenges and Opportunities in the 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.719 world for American form. And then, during a typical day, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.679 do you see him a couple other times and do 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:14.640 you see him at the end of the day as well? Well, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.600 you know, just to take yesterday as an example, in 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.440 addition to the PDB UH Secretary B Lincoln and I 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.760 had the opportunity to just sit with him informally uh 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.560 for a little while before the cabinet meeting so we 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:29.760 could talk through a kind of tick list of issues 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.480 that had been building up over the course of the 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.360 last couple of weeks. And then later in the afternoon 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.720 we had this call with the British Prime Minister and 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.440 and that involved some amount of time to talk through 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.400 what he wanted to accomplish in that phone call, what 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.640 we expected she would say to him, and then I 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.520 sat there with him while he did the phone call. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.880 So that would be a typical day seeing the president 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.320 two three times and then spending time with the other 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.520 principles of the National Security Council the the cabinet secretary, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.079 Secretary of Defense, the secretary of the Treasury and the 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.720 Secretary of State and talking through the big decisions that 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.720 we would need to tee up for the president to 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.840 make on everything from global food security to Taiwan to 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.800 the chips act, you know, the new law that's been 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.160 passed to invest in advanced microchips here in the United States. 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.000 We cover the waterfront. So sometimes presidents I observe lose 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.920 their temper and they yell ums. President Biden a yeller 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.240 when he's not happy, or he just calmly just says 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.880 here's what I think. He's not a yeller. Uh. You know, 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:37.600 he's somebody who is disciplined and direct and holds us 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.360 to a high standard and he will challenge us to 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.760 make sure that we have nailed down the details of 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.400 everything we are presenting to him and if we haven't, 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.760 he'll tell us do better. But he does so in 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.840 a totally respectful, straightforward way, the same way that everybody 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.000 has seen him in public life. So when I work 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.320 in the White House under President Carter, there were frequent 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.840 disputes between the secretaries, Si Vance and the NASCUR advisor. 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.120 Is a big Braginsky, and it's a great tradition. It 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.640 seems in our government that the secretary of state the 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.199 NASCUR advisor are always sparring one where the other leaking 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.680 to the press. In this administration I haven't seen a 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.920 lot of leaks from your office or the secretary's Office 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.160 uh criticizing the other person's office. So how have you 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.480 avoided that problem? Well, a lot of it has to 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.360 do which is deep mutual respect and straight up friendship 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.600 between myself and the secretary state. Tony and I've known 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:32.120 each other for years. We're good friends. Are Families or friends? Um, 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.800 that doesn't mean that there aren't debates. We don't have 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.880 disputes because we have it an open operating style. I 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.520 think we both try to be nice people, but we 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.720 do have debates. We disagree on certain issues and the 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.600 thing that I take very seriously is my responsibility to 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:53.080 run a process that is open, humane, fair, transparent, H 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.600 and above board, and I try to do that so 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.720 that his perspective, the Secretary Defense is perspective, the Attorney 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.960 General Perspective, depending on the issue, are all teed up 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.000 to the president in a way in which they get 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.240 their say and then we work it out, and that has, 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.560 in my view, work quite effectively over the course of 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.520 the past nineteen months and I consider it one of 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:20.360 the central uh responsibilities of my position to ensure that 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.680 that process is fair and effective. What would you like 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.040 to see as your legacy, or what the ININTIATION's legacy 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.480 would be as a result of what you're doing? I 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.160 would say um to basic foundations to the legacy that 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.040 I would like to leave working, obviously on behalf of 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.760 the president. First is to leave our alliances with like 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.920 minded democracies at a high water mark in Europe, in 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.840 the end of Pacific and elsewhere around the world, because 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.760 those are the force multipliers for everything we do, whether 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.240 it's competition with China or trying to solve the challenge 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.360 of climate change. And the second is making sure that 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.600 our national security enterprise is investing in the sources of 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.960 American strength at home, and the chips act is a 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.480 great example of that. or a young person who might 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.840 like to have a career like yours, what would you recommend? 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.280 How can you prepare to be an abscured advisor or 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.240 to serve your government in some way? The biggest piece 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.240 of advice I try to give young people is um 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.400 to reject certitude. What I mean by that is that 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.320 no matter how good you think your argument is, or 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.120 your policy position or your proposed course of action, it 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.120 almost certainly has weaknesses or blind spots, and you should 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.440 acknowledge those. I think actually sometimes saying you know what, 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.560 I was wrong, you were right, is actually a more 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.800 powerful show of intellectual strength than just sticking firmly by 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.800 your position. Doesn't mean you should compromise your principles or 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:45.240 your values, but the easy decisions do not rise to 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.560 the White House. The hard decisions do, and those hard 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.840 decisions have two sides Um that are not a hundred zero. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.240 You see a lot of people in Washington saying I 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.800 was wrong. No, I think that's I think that's a 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.960 problem and I think the people who do people are 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.960 willing to change their minds, update their assumptions, alter their 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.399 perspective based on new information or new developments in the world. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.720 Those are the people that lead the best mark on 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:12.960 history and, even more importantly, those are the people who 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:14.920 are a pleasure to work with. Let's go around the 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.280 world for a couple of trouble spots. North Korea, Um, 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.840 and a progress so on getting them to give up 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.920 their nuclear testing or is that difficult to do? It's difficult, obviously. 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:29.000 Through multiple presidents, going back to the Clinton administration, the 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.480 North Koreans have continued to move forward with their nuclear 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.359 weapons program in the course of the past year they 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.040 have conducted a number of long range missile tests. We 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.360 have been warning about the possibility of a seventh nuclear 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.800 test testivate nuclear weapon, and we still think that that 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.560 is something that is likely to happen in the coming months. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.240 We have also indicated to the North Koreans that we 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.560 are prepared to sit down in a serious way to 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.480 conduct diplomacy to, on a step by step basis, work 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.720 towards the nuclearization of Korean Peninsula. So far, the North 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.720 grants have evince no interest in that. China and Taiwan, 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.720 there's been a lot of rhetoric from the U S side, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.560 a lot of rhetoric from the Chinese side, vision any 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.600 real problem occurring where the Chinese might actually invade Taiwan. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.520 I think it remains a distinct threat that there could 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:21.479 be a military contingency around Taiwan and the People's Republic 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.199 of China has actually stated as official policy that it 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.639 is not taking the invasion of Taiwan off the table, 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.960 that that remains one of the potential options for the 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.480 reunification of Taiwan. Their position has been changing over time 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.639 in terms of their disturbance of the status quo across 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.800 the Taiwan Strait actions that they are taking with their 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.600 military to undermine peace and stability. The American position has 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:51.040 remained steadfast and consistent. One China Policy Taiwan Relations Act, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.640 three joint communic caves that we agreed with China back 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.560 in the nineties, seventies and eighties that laid out that, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.040 from our perspective, there should be no unilateral changes to 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.560 the status quo across the Taiwan straight we continue to 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.760 believe that and we will continue to push back against 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.960 any effort to change the status quo by force. Now 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.080 there is legislation now moving forward through Congress to kind 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.680 of toughen up the existing support the US has for Taiwan. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.959 This administration adopted a position on that legislation yet. Well, 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.280 I'm actually gonna have the opportunity later today, literally later today, 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:25.800 to go up to the hill to talk to some 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.879 members about this legislation. I'd prefer to have the opportunity 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:30.639 to lay it out for them before I lay it 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.239 out on TV, but I will just say this. There 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.800 are elements of that legislation with respect to how we 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.160 can strengthen our security assistance for Taiwan that are quite 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.959 effective and robust that will improve Taiwan security. There are 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.240 other elements that give us some concern. Let's go back 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.439 to Ukraine for a moment. In hindsight, which was always 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.120 is there anything the administration could have done to prevent 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.879 Putin from invading or told the allies more forcefully that 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.000 the invasion was going to occur, to convince them, because 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:00.399 it seems as if they didn't really believe it was 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.760 going to happen? What would you have done, or would 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:04.720 you think you should have done in hindsight, if anything, 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.840 differently than you did? Given that we're still in the 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.520 middle of this unfolding crisis, it's hard to get the 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.040 kind of level of perspective to look back and say, Hey, 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.800 maybe we could have done this instead of that. There's 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.200 always something you could improve upon. I would never say 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:21.080 no, no no, no, we did everything absolutely perfectly, but six 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.520 months into this invasion I'm fairly well convinced that Putin 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.080 was going to do this no matter what, that he 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.440 considered this central to his legacy as president of Russia 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.960 and he was not going to be knocked off course. 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.480 The only thing that was going to stop him was 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.920 the physical might of the Ukrainian forces, holding back his 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.760 ability to take Kiev and take other major cities, backed 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.800 by the weapons that we provided them. That was the 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.080 strategy we executed. I think we executed it well and 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.480 I think Ukraine is in a position now today to 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.040 ensure that they will remain a strong, sovereign, viable independent state, 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.120 even as they continue to try to resist Russian aggression 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.959 on a portion of their territory. In terms of the Allies, Um, 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:07.440 you know, we took unprecedented measures, quite novel measures, to 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:12.240