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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: This is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas, and we

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Speaker 1: are in the week of Valentine's right now. We're just

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Speaker 1: completely amished in the Valentine's um season, with red and

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Speaker 1: pink everywhere, hideous flowers in hideously priced flowers popping up

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Speaker 1: everywhere in fact the podcast. But this is full of balloons,

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Speaker 1: red balloons. Yes, it's really annoying. Who left these here?

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Speaker 1: Tex stuff? Probably love birds. So that's the thing about Valentine's.

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Speaker 1: It brings varying connotations. Uh, you know, it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are really positive about it. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: a bright, happy, fun time full of love. Other people

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Speaker 1: may legitimately hate it, and uh, it's it's and so.

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Speaker 1: And then of course you have the saying about how

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Speaker 1: there's a thin line between love and hate, right, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and uh and then while I've also seen people that

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Speaker 1: get on the defensive about that, and it's like there's

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Speaker 1: no thin line, there's the enormous canyon between love and hate.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know, but what do we have

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Speaker 1: some information for you. So today we're we're gonna serve

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Speaker 1: up a little bit of love, a little bit of hate,

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Speaker 1: and some robots. Yeah yeah, so if the lover hate

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Speaker 1: didn't have you, you know, stick around for the robots

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Speaker 1: or come for the love and the hate, stay for

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Speaker 1: the robot. That's right, That's what I say. That's your motto.

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Speaker 1: So there's something called lammerence. Have you heard about this before?

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Speaker 1: I actually had not heard of about this. I've I'm

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Speaker 1: not really a you know, even when Valentine's is around,

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Speaker 1: I'm not super you know, into it. So I have

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Speaker 1: to I hadn't really like read a lot about the

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Speaker 1: science of love well, and I didn't realize that that

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Speaker 1: there's a term for when you are literally love sick. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like this is the moment, Like, you know, picture any

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Speaker 1: any movie, any romantic comedy or whatever. John Cuzak that

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Speaker 1: the boom box. Yeah, well, I'm thinking specifically, if you

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Speaker 1: know where the guy looks up and he sees the

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Speaker 1: woman of his dreams and then the music starts playing.

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Speaker 1: That works. Yeah, it's like, but what's happening is limerits right, right,

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Speaker 1: that person is connecting with a sort of near obsessive

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Speaker 1: romantic love in his or her head, and there's all

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Speaker 1: sorts of dopamine and uh VA's oppressing and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of good like oxytocin the field. Good hormones are raging. Yes,

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Speaker 1: because and and then and there the judgment part of

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Speaker 1: their brain is kind of shutting down a little bit. Right.

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Speaker 1: But but okay, so how do we know this? Well,

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Speaker 1: we can hook love birds up to an m r I, Right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what else should we do but hook love

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Speaker 1: birds up what's going on in that love sick head

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Speaker 1: of their all? Right, So you know that the cool

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Speaker 1: thing about the fm R I is that it can

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Speaker 1: measure basically the blood flow to certain regions of the brain. Right.

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Speaker 1: And when we look at at the images off and

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Speaker 1: you'll see like bright colors and all. And that's just

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Speaker 1: marking where where blood is moving around and where neural

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Speaker 1: activity is taking place. Right. So, someone, so if someone's

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Speaker 1: eating chocolate, or they're playing pac Man, or they just

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Speaker 1: they want a lot of money, or they're in love,

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Speaker 1: we see the reward center of their brains start to

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Speaker 1: light up like a pinball machine. Yeah, So that's how

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Speaker 1: we know when you're in limerince that do doesn't sound sexy.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't I'm in Limerince Happy Limrince day. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work. So the thing I thought was really interesting

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Speaker 1: about this too is that um, according to an author

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Speaker 1: of Anatomy of Love, Dr Helen Fisher, that when you

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Speaker 1: are going through these changes, the reason I would yeah

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Speaker 1: the love doctor, the limerence doctor, Dr Helen Fisher. Um.

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Speaker 1: She basically says that when you're heartbroken, hormones hormones can

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Speaker 1: change again and you get another dopamine boasts boost. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: so you know when you first fall in love and

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Speaker 1: you get that dopamine boost, um, do you sometimes you know,

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Speaker 1: for some people who have experienced this sport, do you

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Speaker 1: sometimes have a hard time eating? You're not really hungry.

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Speaker 1: That's the hormones changing. So the same thing occurs when

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Speaker 1: you have a breakup or heartache, that that dopamine boost

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Speaker 1: is happening again and you don't feel like eating. So

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Speaker 1: you could have like one person would be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm so in love, I forgot to eat lunch today,

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Speaker 1: and the other person's like, like, my girlfriend just broke

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Speaker 1: up with me, I forgot to eat lunch to day. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the same thing going on, right right, in the

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Speaker 1: break room right now. So you had talked about the

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Speaker 1: thin line between love and hate. Yeah, there's an interesting

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Speaker 1: study from the University College London where they actually you

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Speaker 1: actually had this one researcher, I believe his name was.

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Speaker 1: It is Sameer Zeki, smeer Zeki. So Zeke has has

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Speaker 1: co workers, colleagues, and he's pretty sure that one of

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Speaker 1: them hates him. Right, Yeah, He's like, this dude just

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Speaker 1: hates me. What's going on? He seems to just hate me?

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Speaker 1: And then he starts looking into a little moment. He's like, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think we've all had this with

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Speaker 1: with various people. We like, I think this guy hates everybody. Right,

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Speaker 1: he realizes it's not just him, Like, this guy's irrational,

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Speaker 1: this guy is miserable, and he's done everything he Kenny's

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Speaker 1: tried to befriend, this guy has been nice to him,

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Speaker 1: he's whatever, and this this guy still has hatred toward him.

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Speaker 1: But being a scientist, the the answer is, let's scan it.

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Speaker 1: Let's figure out what's going on. Yes, let's nail this down.

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Speaker 1: Let's figure out this hate thing. And the interesting thing

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Speaker 1: about this is that um sameer Ziki and Andrea's Bartol's

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Speaker 1: they conducted a previous study about love UM and they

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Speaker 1: used f M R I of course, and they scanned

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Speaker 1: the brains the seventeen volunteers who described themselves as truly

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Speaker 1: and madly in love. And so during the scans, each

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Speaker 1: of them was shown pictures of their loved ones and

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Speaker 1: then other pictures of neutral people. And so that's how

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Speaker 1: they could figure out that this part of the brain

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Speaker 1: lights up when someone is in love, right, So that

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Speaker 1: is that that was sort of the the impetus for

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Speaker 1: Zeki saying, okay, we know where love is, let's find

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Speaker 1: out about this hate and why my colleague hates. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they they they ended up doing the same thing

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Speaker 1: with with with some other test subjects where they they

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Speaker 1: showed them pictures of people they hate it right, And

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Speaker 1: what they found was that the all right, when when

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Speaker 1: someone when you're doing the love experiment, like people would

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Speaker 1: see someone they love and the love circuit with one

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Speaker 1: light up the terminology and um that they were using

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Speaker 1: the circuit. And then but then in this other experiment,

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Speaker 1: people would see someone they hate, the hate circuit would

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Speaker 1: would light up. But the hate circuit in the love

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Speaker 1: circuit the same area, right, so the same neural circuit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'm on one level there you go. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's the love and hate are are sharing some of

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Speaker 1: the same neural architecture, right, And it turns out that

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Speaker 1: these are two specific brain regions, right, it's the putaman

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Speaker 1: and the insular cortex. Yeah. The putaman is used to

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Speaker 1: prepare the body for movements. So to put it in

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Speaker 1: like real caveman terms, it would be like, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: a pretty girl, I'll go get her, and then the

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Speaker 1: other one is there's my enemy, I will go clube.

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Speaker 1: I guess you might have the caveman would stare typically

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Speaker 1: club either, right, he would just there would be more

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Speaker 1: bludgeoning involved with the enemy and more of a loving

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Speaker 1: a love tap with the cudgel on the head of

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Speaker 1: the intended naming right exactly hopefully, and then the and

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Speaker 1: then of course you could also say that this is

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Speaker 1: also like oh you would you would run to the

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Speaker 1: pudman is saying, who I love that person, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to run to help them and keep them from falling

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Speaker 1: off that cliff, whereas with the enemy would be like

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Speaker 1: like always totally teetering on the edge of that Cliff,

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Speaker 1: I better give him a good kick. So that's the pudman.

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Speaker 1: And then there's again the insula, which is associated with

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Speaker 1: feelings of distress and jealousy. Right again, that would for

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Speaker 1: both situations, right right, Yeah, it's like, oh that dude

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Speaker 1: so successful, I hate him? Or uh you know, or

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Speaker 1: yeah I'm jealous. Yeah, do you love pac Man more

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Speaker 1: than me? Why are you playing it so much? You know?

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Speaker 1: The thing I think is really interesting about the study

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Speaker 1: is that Zeke was kind of disappointing because he thought

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Speaker 1: that the that the prefrontal cortex, where the seat of

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Speaker 1: judgment is and reasoning, he thought that that was going

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Speaker 1: to be deactivated a bit like it is with love

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Speaker 1: and hate. And his idea was that, you know, if

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Speaker 1: it's an irrational hatred, therefore you know someone's uh faculties

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Speaker 1: should be a little bit dimmed. Right, But it's the reverse,

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Speaker 1: I mean, were not the reverse. But it's more a

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Speaker 1: situation where when you're when you're in love, the judgment

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Speaker 1: falls off. But love is love is blind right when

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Speaker 1: you're in love, right, because you're you're reasoning dems. But

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Speaker 1: right when when you're hating, apparently you still have the

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Speaker 1: ability to think analytically, and of course his idea is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well that means that maybe because the pudamin is also

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Speaker 1: um in action here, that the two would would allow

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Speaker 1: someone to attack another person. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like if you see, if there's somebody

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Speaker 1: like or even love and they have kind of goofy hair,

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Speaker 1: you're probably gonna let it go or not think about it, right,

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Speaker 1: but if you red flag, Yeah, I mean, goofy hair

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Speaker 1: is fun. But if you hate somebody and they have

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Speaker 1: goofy hair, you'd be like, you look at his hair

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Speaker 1: con Brian every night. So I don't hate him. I

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Speaker 1: actually like him quite a bit. Um So Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: that that's kind of covers that whole like thin line

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Speaker 1: between love and hate. Definitely got the same circuits going

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Speaker 1: on there. And then there's this other question that's recently

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Speaker 1: cropped up, and it's that can you really fall in

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Speaker 1: love and a fifth of a second love at first sight?

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Speaker 1: Right right staring out in the crowd, seeing the woman

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Speaker 1: or man of your dreams standing over there, and just

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Speaker 1: and then you know, the music off string quartet rises.

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Speaker 1: There's a study by Syracuse University professor Sephanie ortigue, and

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Speaker 1: she determined that falling in love has the same eufork

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Speaker 1: feeling as using cocaine, but also that affects intellectual areas

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Speaker 1: of the brain, which is interesting. It is essentially running

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Speaker 1: more blood to those areas dealing with mental representations, metaphors,

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Speaker 1: and body image, and that it can also take less

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Speaker 1: than a fifth of a second love. Now, let let

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Speaker 1: me break down the cocaine thing for a second. For

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Speaker 1: anyone to get down, I will break it down. And

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Speaker 1: I got that. I grabbed this data from from our

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Speaker 1: excellent article by Stephanie Watson on how stuff works called

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Speaker 1: how crack Cocaine works. All right, crack cocaine you smoke,

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Speaker 1: so it gives the brain much faster than inhaled powder cocaine.

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Speaker 1: All right, So crack cocaine gets the brain and creates

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Speaker 1: a high within ten to fifteen seconds. Normal cocaine is

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Speaker 1: ten to fifteen minutes um. And then the effects can

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Speaker 1: last anywhere from five to fifteen minutes. And then you

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Speaker 1: have to do more cocaine because it you know, it

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Speaker 1: kind of sucks. So don't do drugs. Do more love, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because love is We're gonna explore, like you fall in

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Speaker 1: love like that stuff's gonna last fifteen months at least,

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Speaker 1: you know, cocaine fifteen minutes and then you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just that's exactly right. That's that's the whole limbrance is

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Speaker 1: what the shelf life is fifteen months for limrance kind

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Speaker 1: of love. Yeah, love in one hand cocaine and the

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Speaker 1: other one you're just going to do you for for

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Speaker 1: several months either you're just gonna be keeping doing cocaine

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Speaker 1: over and over again. So I think love is the

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Speaker 1: obvious winner here. Yeah, they really need to rethink their

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Speaker 1: p s a s for for anti drug commercial saying

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Speaker 1: like they need to rethink the cocaine ad campaign that

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Speaker 1: they're not really getting it out. Yeah, those cocaine marketing

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Speaker 1: people are really asleep at the wheel. Um. But that

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Speaker 1: study is interesting because it really does sort of indicate

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Speaker 1: that it's the that the sort of passionate love is

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Speaker 1: is again it's centered in the reward center, whereas like

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Speaker 1: an eternal love for more long term love is found

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Speaker 1: in the middle brain and supposedly like a mother for

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Speaker 1: a child or or you know, or a child for

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Speaker 1: a parent, right, yeah, or a copy I love to us,

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of like a hasn't there's a different

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Speaker 1: types of love that's like a like a church thing,

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Speaker 1: right where I've seen I've seen church programs that are Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some there. I think there are some that use

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Speaker 1: that term. But I think it's one of like five

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Speaker 1: different kinds of groovy loves you can have. Anytime I

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Speaker 1: year a gup a love or at likes used to

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Speaker 1: I would I would think of Guppy's in love, you know,

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Speaker 1: so I think a little a little like you know,

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Speaker 1: Salamander has creatures falling in love, guffies in love. All right,

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Speaker 1: This presentation is brought to you by Intel Sponsors of Tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: But supposedly they're supposed to have a follow up study

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Speaker 1: about the fifth of a second thing because that's sort

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Speaker 1: of interesting, like you know, fifth of a second you

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Speaker 1: can uh, you know, how do how do they know?

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Speaker 1: Because that's the specifics weren't necessarily available. Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: you'd have to hook machinery up to like the kind

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Speaker 1: of person who just falls in and out of love

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Speaker 1: a lot, like you know, kind of like a Don

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Speaker 1: Draper for Madman type, you know. Yeah, okay, so they

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Speaker 1: had to have like a high limbrance yeah quality well

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Speaker 1: or or at least I'm not sure how it would

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Speaker 1: be the kind of person who would can suitably fall

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Speaker 1: in love and fall in love because because if you

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Speaker 1: have high limeriance, aren't you more inclined to fall in

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Speaker 1: love like once and stay in love? For saying DeAndre

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Speaker 1: for shouldn't we just say lust? Yeah? Okay, he's become

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Speaker 1: the icon of stupid man lust yeah yeah yeah, And

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Speaker 1: you know a couple of ladies have I think perhaps

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Speaker 1: listed after him. Um. But then that brings me to

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Speaker 1: the question about whether or not we could actually have

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Speaker 1: like a true love, true love, true love like no, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, like a completely um unmitigated love.

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Speaker 1: Could you have that limbrince your entire life? Right if

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Speaker 1: it weren't a lust limerence, if it was a pure love.

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Speaker 1: So previous research has laid out the fracture points in

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Speaker 1: a relationship to be twelve to fifteen months, So BEINGO,

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Speaker 1: there's there's your you're saying like love can in many

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Speaker 1: studies last fifteen months, right, and then you've got three

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Speaker 1: is another sort of breaking point. And then the seven

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Speaker 1: year itch that we've all heard about. And I think

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Speaker 1: one thing that or at least my take on this

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Speaker 1: is that when when you're saying love ends after fifteen months,

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Speaker 1: we're not saying like, oh what am I doing here?

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Speaker 1: It's like waking up for a dream and realizing you're

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Speaker 1: you're in this life you want. You know, it's this

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Speaker 1: this chemical thing that maybe it definitely becomes something else.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, yeah, you're the chemical sort of calibrate

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Speaker 1: and they'd have to write, I suppose, yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: it's like, it's pretty obvious. This is we're kind of

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Speaker 1: stating an obvious fact here, But love really powerful. Oh

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Speaker 1: I just fell in love that that tends to calm

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Speaker 1: down and become something more mature over time, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine having that horrible, obsessive teenager e kind

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Speaker 1: of love applied in your adult relationships? Because because general,

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Speaker 1: you know, love is great, and I love it when

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Speaker 1: my friends are in love. But but man, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of tough to be around them if they're they've only

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Speaker 1: like if they're you know, they've only been in love

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Speaker 1: with somebody for like, you know, a month or so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, wow, you guys really are not over

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Speaker 1: this yet. Just like take it down a notch. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you really drove past the house like fifty times again

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Speaker 1: this evening making out of my living room. What's going on? Stop? Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Um So, researchers from Stony Brook, you in New York,

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Speaker 1: compared the longtime couple's brains a group of longtime couple

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Speaker 1: springs to newly minted in love couples, and they found

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Speaker 1: that one in ten of the long time couples there

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Speaker 1: were twenty of them exhibited the same chemical reactions when

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Speaker 1: shown photographs of their loved ones as people commonly do

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Speaker 1: in the early stages of relationship. This limitans that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. They're kind of super lovers. They call them

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Speaker 1: swans because they meet for life. Right. Yeah, So it's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because, um again you've got that the fading

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Speaker 1: point fifteen months um in the testosterone levels actually fade

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Speaker 1: as the Hornburger limit. I think, no kidding, my goodness,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, I just blushed and I have no idea why. Um,

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Speaker 1: but their testotering levels are fading back to normal, right,

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Speaker 1: and they still have like those shots of oxytocin um

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Speaker 1: to create a feeling of attachment, because that's that's really

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Speaker 1: what this spoils down to. But they don't have the

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Speaker 1: wild love. So the feelings of obsession in theory, they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't survive, right, they shouldn't be these couples shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: having the same sort of reaction, chemical reaction as he's

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Speaker 1: untually minted. It's kind of like if you're going to

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Speaker 1: perform surgery on somebody you want, you know, you may

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Speaker 1: numb them up or not surgery. Let's say a dental procedure.

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Speaker 1: You may numb them up to perform this quick, fairly,

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Speaker 1: you know, simple procedure. But then you want that numbness

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Speaker 1: to wear off so they can feeling again and actually

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Speaker 1: use their mouth like a normal person. But uh, but

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Speaker 1: it's but it's like the when the love lingers, when

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Speaker 1: the limericks remain so intense for so long, it's like,

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Speaker 1: to a certain extence, kind of outlived its usefulness. Like

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Speaker 1: it's more about like, let's let's get this, uh, let's

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Speaker 1: get this relationship started. Let's go let's get everything sealed

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Speaker 1: up and ready. It's like, you know, let's hire a

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Speaker 1: hundred guys to start building this this this house, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll split the work crew down to fifty to

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Speaker 1: get the real work done, right, right, So, but then

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Speaker 1: the researchers were kind of like, well, so, what why

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Speaker 1: is it that they have this chemical reaction? And and

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Speaker 1: they're not like sitting here like frenching on the waiting

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Speaker 1: room couch as we're doing this study, Like why are they?

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Speaker 1: You know, they they seem to be these longtime couples

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Speaker 1: and love with each other, but they're not like this

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Speaker 1: other group that's they're all french ing on the couch.

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Speaker 1: But I just made all that up. But you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, they're trying to figure out why why

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Speaker 1: their brains are reacting this way. So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like it's the difference between saying like a really old

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Speaker 1: couple and that they're still in love and going ah,

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Speaker 1: and then a really old couple that was still in

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Speaker 1: love and going yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. And so they

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Speaker 1: said in there, in sort of I think clinical terms,

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Speaker 1: they said that that sort of romantic love was able

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Speaker 1: to mature into intensive companionship and sexual liveliness. So the

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Speaker 1: Swans they could control themselves. I suppose that's that's the

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Speaker 1: mature part of it. Yeah, I hope. Yeah, they're not

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Speaker 1: just completely out of control out there. Okay, I'm imagining

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Speaker 1: that they're not their brains are still letting up because

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Speaker 1: they truly and madly still love each other. The the

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Speaker 1: key here, I'm guessing is that Swans need to find Swans,

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Speaker 1: and and that would seem to like, how do you

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Speaker 1: do You can't really like put put that out there

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Speaker 1: and be like, I'm a person that will you know,

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Speaker 1: fall in love with you and stay in love with

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Speaker 1: you forever. I just need somebody else who's exactly the

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Speaker 1: same as me, because it seems like you're going to

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Speaker 1: get a lot of people who are just just like,

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Speaker 1: oh that sounds who doesn't want to fall in love

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Speaker 1: with somebody who's gonna love you back forever and be

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Speaker 1: like powerfully in love with you, you you know? Is this

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Speaker 1: your your dating website idea? Yeah, Like if the Swans

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Speaker 1: had their own dating site, is that I feel like

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Speaker 1: people would abuse that. Yeah, they would. They would claim

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Speaker 1: to be a Swan and not be a Swan unless

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Speaker 1: the thing is that you had mandatory like brain scans,

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Speaker 1: because I believe that actually, to go back to the

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Speaker 1: hate Circuit researcher, that was one of the possible uses

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Speaker 1: they were talking about. It's like being able to have

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Speaker 1: the the evidence admissible in court so that it's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I think so and so murdered. Uh, um, Dave here

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Speaker 1: because uh he hates him. Let's test him and cev

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Speaker 1: he hates and show him a picture. Oh red light

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Speaker 1: lit up. That means he hates it and that he

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Speaker 1: totally hates him. I like this idea. It's like a

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Speaker 1: like a photo booth for love, right, except for you're

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Speaker 1: getting your brain scanned. Yeah, well, kind of like they

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Speaker 1: all like they have those uh those old contraptions where

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Speaker 1: you like the love tester where you like squeeze a

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Speaker 1: joystick and then it lights up to show how how

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Speaker 1: much you love. It would be kind of having like

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Speaker 1: having a scientifically accurate one of those. And then every

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Speaker 1: little like you're getting people getting a fight with their

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Speaker 1: spouse or something and they're like, do you still love me?

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Speaker 1: And it was like, yeah, of course, prove it. We're

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Speaker 1: going down to these shownees where they have that love

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Speaker 1: love tester up and we're gonna we're gonna test this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and think about I mean, Larry King could have really

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Speaker 1: you've been helped out by this. I think, Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: not up enough of my Larry King lore. Oh he's

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Speaker 1: he's sort of like the Elizabeth Taylor of the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he just keeps getting married and married over again. But

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Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't Maybe he's not really he doesn't care

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Speaker 1: about that that reward center lighting up in his partner's brain. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you thinking it would have this technology would have

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Speaker 1: helped Larry King find merited out a true mate for him?

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Speaker 1: Or is it? Or is the reverse? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know enough about him. Is it a situation where

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world needed this device to protect

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Speaker 1: them from Larry King? That may very well be actually

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Speaker 1: the answer right there. Um. Yeah, so I like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm liking this idea of the sort of photo booth

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Speaker 1: scan that couples can just duck into and then they

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Speaker 1: can show their children later on, like here's this little

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Speaker 1: film strip of us in love our brains look at it. Well.

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Speaker 1: That was another thing they brought up, is that by

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Speaker 1: under the more we understand love and and ultimately hate

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Speaker 1: and and heartbreak, that the more that we can we

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Speaker 1: can sort of rationalize it like that was that was

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Speaker 1: one of the arguments that did we understand what's happening

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Speaker 1: chemically in our brains when when we're feeling heartsick, then

405
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Speaker 1: then we can we can understand it and and and

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Speaker 1: make sense a bit more, deal with it better. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I I never I never had. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I had the scientific info when I was going

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Speaker 1: through heartbreaking situations. No, I didn't need that. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if I'm ready now. I hope I don't. I'm

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Speaker 1: not put to the test, but I'm saying I'm ready. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, for now, until I forget everything we researched.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so it needs to happen in the next

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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes because then I flush all this data. All right,

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Speaker 1: I'm turning my phone off. In that case, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about robots sex. Yeah, as long as we're talking about

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Speaker 1: machines and love, then maybe, you know, maybe we don't

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Speaker 1: need a machine to quantify love between two humans. How

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Speaker 1: about just love between a human and his or her

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Speaker 1: sex spot. Okay, So, I mean we've seen some some

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Speaker 1: of this in the media, right, Like two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: David Levi wrote the book Love and Sex with Robots,

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Speaker 1: and so he posits that in the very near automated

424
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 1: future that will undoubtedly, undoubtably having sex with robots, and

425
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: we'll have to developed like robot prostitute sex spots. Yeah.

426
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 1: Well and to a certain extent, we you know, we

427
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: definitely already have this technology it comes to fruition. Do

428
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: not do an image search on any of this. But

429
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: but there there are these things called real dolls, which

430
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: are basically dolls. They're human looking things, tactile like, they

431
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: feel like human flush and one can can can conceivably

432
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: um engage with said there are anatomically correct and uh.

433
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: And then there this wasn't just in the last year,

434
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: but the company A true companion LLC unveiled a prototype

435
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: of something called Roxy with three X is. Of course,

436
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: at Las Vegas is two thousand ten adults Entertainment expo,

437
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 1: and it basically looks like an inanimate sex doll. And

438
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: uh but it allegedly boast enough artificial intelligence and prerecorded

439
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: phrases to engage in pillow talk. So yeah, literally creepy.

440
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: Do not do an image search for that one either,

441
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,959
Speaker 1: because even like the press images for that, I had

442
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: to look it up for an article and uh, it's

443
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: into my mind creepy. Yeah, and apparently too, you know,

444
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: she could be programmed. Um and if you this is

445
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: this isn't from an article that I read it says

446
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: that she may even per metallic sounding that gets me

447
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: hot after you introduce a topic like soccer, so you

448
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: know who wants that? I don't know. It's like I'm

449
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: just saying, I'm just in terms of why do you

450
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: want your robotic partner getting aroused at that that soccer talk?

451
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's keep that out of the weird situation.

452
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: I know, I know. And we're talking nine thousand clams here,

453
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: So I mean you know that do you want your

454
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: car or do you want your sex spot? Yeah? I

455
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: mean I get it. You know, it's it's that sort

456
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: of easy way out in relationships. But and this is

457
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: where it gets interesting. Um, there is a woman named

458
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: Sherry Turkle, and she's a psych professor M I. T.

459
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: And she's been studying robots and human interactions since the seventies.

460
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: And it turns out that one day she found herself

461
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: smitten with their office robot, cogg is his name, hoping

462
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: that he would turn his head her way when she spoke,

463
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 1: and was wishing to be around him more than her

464
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: actual coworkers. Now, what did cog do? What was his function?

465
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: He wasn't like a room by or anything was, I mean,

466
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: not anything wrong. I don't want to get all class

467
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: sensitive about who in which robot you can follow up.

468
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: You're judging the robot that she falls in love. Um,

469
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: I think that his I think this was maybe in

470
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: the earlier part of UM A I M I T

471
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: and so his main function I think was to turn

472
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: around and to engage with a human. So if if

473
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: I were to be talking, he would turn around the

474
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: neck like he was listening to me, and then I

475
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: would think, oh, he's he he's listening to me, understands me.

476
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: So UM, she's been that Turkle has been a huge

477
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: proponent of social social technology. Um. But she now was

478
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: kind of looking at the last forty years of her

479
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: career and her studies, and she's weaving a cautionary tale

480
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: from her field research, which is filled with hundreds of

481
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: interviews with children and teenagers and adults and the elderly

482
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: and countering tech gadgets and over and over she would

483
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: see how even the most basic robotic dog or baby doll,

484
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: or even just a shell of a robot could spark

485
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: a deep emotional response. Yeah, I think there's no question

486
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: that we're good at Like I don't question for a

487
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: second that a human could fall in love with a robot.

488
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: I mean we can, we can fall in love with

489
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: non robotic machine and things, you know, like to be

490
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: there's a the had a real doll or like a

491
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: stuffed animal. I mean they're even Uh, there's one particularly

492
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: delusional misidentification syndrome called syndrome of delusional companions, where you

493
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: end up looking to things like maybe it's something that's

494
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: some sort of item that you have an association with.

495
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: And this was a typical typically seen in like Alzheimer's patients.

496
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: But they begin getting they have these comforting associations with

497
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: the toy, and then they start experiencing the toy is

498
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: a singent thing and they keep then they're triggered associated

499
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: behavior so well. And see that's interesting because what Turkle

500
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: is basically saying is that that's that's where it becomes

501
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: an ethics question um between ai UM developers and the

502
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: community at large, because if you're going to keep using

503
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: robots in society and eventually they come to you know,

504
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: we already have ones that can spend baith elderly person,

505
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: right um, and you program them so that they're so

506
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: nuanced that they really do have all these different ways

507
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: of communicating with human then what, you know, what are

508
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: we what sort of what sort of society are we

509
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: setting up? And what are we doing with our human

510
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: emotions when you're projecting love onto something that can't love back.

511
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: And then that brings me to the other question is

512
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: is love just a mirage in the first place? Are

513
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: we doing that with humans anyway? So it's my concept

514
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: of love for one person, is that even my idea

515
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: of that person and that love is that even realistic

516
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: or concrete? Yeah, it's kind of I think there's a

517
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: line in Terry pratchett hog Father where some wizards have

518
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: created a computer and and one of the wizards asked

519
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: about whether it's, uh, you know, it's actually thinking, and

520
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: it's like, no, it just appears to be thinking. And

521
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, it's just like everybody else. Then, you know. So,

522
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: I mean, there there comes a point where when when

523
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: you when you look at the possibility of robots faking

524
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: things that are human, you have to also look inward

525
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: at us and say, well, what, how many things, how

526
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: many aspects of the human experience are to some extent

527
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: or the other of fate. You know, everything from consciousness

528
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: to to love to hate. If you get down and

529
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: you analyze it enough and you break down, like even

530
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: things like free will, um, it gets down, you can

531
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: you can. You can break it down to the point

532
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 1: where it where the magic disappears. It's uh, I think

533
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: are the way our Scott Baker put it um when

534
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: in talking about his book Neuropath, was that things like

535
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: consciousness um that they're like, um, it's it's all part

536
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: of like a like a coin trick, a magic trick,

537
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: and we are the magic. And so if you if

538
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: if you explain away the trick, like we're the magic

539
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: that disappears. Okay, so love could just be another construct

540
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: of the mind. Yeah. So eventually we create machines that

541
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: can that are just as good at creating this kind

542
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: of magic, and we either buy into it or we

543
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: don't buy into it. It's kind of like I feel like,

544
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: you know, every day you can sort of make a

545
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: choice whether to buy into the magic of life or not.

546
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: You know, you're going to see the person next to

547
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: you as a as this uh, this spongy organ setting

548
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: in a skull and you know, flooded with different chemicals

549
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: and you know, plodding through its day thinking it's conscious

550
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: or um or do you look at them as something better?

551
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, I mean when the technological similarity comes,

552
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: will we even have a choice? Yeah? Maybe not? Yeah,

553
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: I think you will have to love robots. Yeah, but

554
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: maybe maybe the maybe the robots will be worth loving.

555
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: That's my my hope. I know, I know, I love

556
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: that you're optimistic about that. Yeah, not I mean loving

557
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: in a not in a sex spot fashion. But who knows,

558
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, a few generations from now that may make

559
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: total sense and they'll look back at me and but whoa.

560
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: That guy was really out of line when he said

561
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: a human should not marry machines that have the name

562
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: like Roxy with three xes. Yeah, are right? I mean,

563
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: like how Judge metal. So I think that's a pretty

564
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: good Valentine note to end to everybody. If you, if you,

565
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: if you have somebody in your life, great, If not,

566
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: just wait for robots. Um, it'll it'll be around eventually.

567
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: But or save up for Roxy. Yeah. But anyway, you know,

568
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: some some some different ways to think about love and

569
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: hate and what they have to do with each other

570
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: and what they have to do with whatever you're going

571
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: through right now. So, hey, I have some lister mail.

572
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: Oh bring them all right, some fairly short ones here,

573
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: Gabriel writes in he says, and he's responding to our

574
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: Life on the Floor episode. We seem to be pretty

575
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: popular with folks. Uh, says Julian Robert. I don't know

576
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: who would write a feature Romeo and Juliet in which

577
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: the characters live in ancient skyscrapers, but I can tell

578
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: you that the skybridge fight scenes would be awesome. A

579
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: curse on both your ancient skyscrapers needs work. Have a

580
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: better one, Gabriel. So there it is and it works. Yeah,

581
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: it's it's taking form. Keep keep thinking of those ideas

582
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: of people. Um. Then also Ryan writes in, hey, Robert

583
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: and Julie, I was listening to the High Animals podcast,

584
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: the one about Junkie's animal kingdom, and I thought you

585
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: ought to know that you can't get nicotine lotion. But

586
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: I have seen caffeinated body so apparently if you use

587
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: it in your morning shower, it will help you wake

588
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: up in the morning as a substitute or in addition

589
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: to coffee. All Right, I need all the help I

590
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: can get. I'll try it out. Uh. Then we also

591
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: heard from well another Um, oh it's the same Ryan. Well, well,

592
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: we'll save that one for later. Um. But then Joel

593
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: writes in, and Joel says, Hey, guys, I'm an avid listener.

594
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: I've been meaning to send this reference in for some time,

595
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: but I only just got around to it. I was

596
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: reminded when you talked about it again at the end

597
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 1: of the Life Aquatic podcast. There's a great book by

598
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: an author which tackles exactly the problem of living in

599
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: a giant building interconnected with all the amended. In J. G.

600
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: Ballard's novel high Rise, a massive building is being filled

601
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: with people rich at the top, less well to do

602
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: on the bottom, including shopping malls and swimming pools. The

603
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: novel takes a creepy turn when floors based on socioeconomic

604
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: standing began fighting with each other, even killing people stopped

605
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: leaving the building, sabotage elevators, booby trap hallways, and formed

606
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: tribal groups. Even cannibalism and the rate begin. Certain figures

607
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: become kinglike and rule over different areas of the high rise,

608
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: warring with each other. In the end not to totally

609
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: wreck it. If you survive the chaos, definitely a great read.

610
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: You can watch organized society breakdown within this one massive building. Um,

611
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: so that's uh, that's cool. J. G. Ballard is an

612
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: author that I have been meaning to read for some time,

613
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: and I have I have friends who keep telling me,

614
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta read this, you gotta, you gotta

615
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: read his short stories so supposedly really awesome, and that

616
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: this is the second time someone's mentioned Skycrite was great

617
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: for to me, but I didn't. I didn't even think

618
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: about it lining up with everything that I was requesting

619
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: at the end of that podcast. Huh, what, I'm gonna

620
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: check into it as well. It's cool. So if you

621
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: have any anything you want to add to this, uh,

622
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: feel free to interact with us on Facebook and Twitter.

623
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: We are blow the Mind on both of those. We

624
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: update that pretty regularly with neat links to stuff at

625
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: how stuff works and elsewhere on the web. And if

626
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: you've got any comments about love hate robots, please do

627
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: drop us a line at Blow the Mind at how

628
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands

629
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. To

630
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon

631
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: in the upper right corner of our homepage, The How

632
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today

633
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: on iTunes