Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: It's a famous podcast. We are here with the breakdown
Speaker 2: of the finale episode from Gen season of The Bachelorette. Ashley,
Speaker 2: before we dive into the finale episode, specifically outside of
Speaker 2: the ending, because we're going to talk about the ending
Speaker 2: now and our opinions on the ending and how we
Speaker 2: felt about the ending for a long time. So instead
Speaker 2: of just starting out with maybe our thoughts and feels,
Speaker 2: I want to hear what you think of the season
Speaker 2: in general, like up to the take take the ending
Speaker 2: out of it, takes the last episode out of it
Speaker 2: if you can. How did you feel about Gen's time
Speaker 2: as the Bachelorette? How did you do as the Bachelorette?
Speaker 2: What was your enjoyment watching the show? The contestants, you know,
Speaker 2: and all the guys. Because what we do, and I
Speaker 2: know I'm long winded here, but what we end up
Speaker 2: doing is we break it down at the beginning and
Speaker 2: we give our opinions on all these guys from their pictures.
Speaker 2: We have no clue who they are, what they're doing,
Speaker 2: and then we watch this season and I don't I
Speaker 2: don't know if you've ever been more right about a
Speaker 2: cast of characters, and we were this season based on
Speaker 2: our assumptions with the pictures, and I want to hear
Speaker 2: your thoughts in the season.
Speaker 3: I really like the season. I find myself really liking
Speaker 3: pretty much every season once we get down to the finale,
Speaker 3: once we get down to like the top ten, I
Speaker 3: think that every season. Now there's a pattern for me.
Speaker 3: It's just those first couple episodes. You got to get
Speaker 3: through them, and then once I get attached to the
Speaker 3: lead and to the characters, I'm so excited to get
Speaker 3: the episode in our inbox every week. Really like Jenn
Speaker 3: as the lead. I think she did a great job,
Speaker 3: and I felt that I like this cast of men
Speaker 3: I felt more tied to then I have the past
Speaker 3: few seasons, Like I went and I followed a few
Speaker 3: of them and I was like, oh, I'm like interested
Speaker 3: in their lives. And then I followed one last night.
Speaker 2: Im sure you did, I'm sure you did?
Speaker 3: What about Yeah?
Speaker 2: What about you?
Speaker 3: Ben?
Speaker 2: Uh? You know, I might come at it from a
Speaker 2: different angle. Honestly, I thought I was into the season.
Speaker 2: I thought Jen did do a great job as the bachelorette.
Speaker 2: It makes sense to us now why she was chosen
Speaker 2: as the bachelorette for multiple reasons. I thought she coming
Speaker 2: off of last season now was the clear choice, you know.
Speaker 2: I think the only other person I would throw into
Speaker 2: that mix was Daisy, who is obviously in a relationship
Speaker 2: so she could not be the bachelorette and as she said,
Speaker 2: it didn't fit her. I think the other person talked
Speaker 2: about was Maria. Well, you know, things haven't you know,
Speaker 2: gone where Maria has come out and been this huge
Speaker 2: character from the show, like we kind of expected her
Speaker 2: to be. I do think it shows that Jen coming
Speaker 2: off last season, was the clear best choice for bachelorette,
Speaker 2: and I think she did really well at it. I would, yeah,
Speaker 2: I would also though just add I know there may
Speaker 2: be is one or two then I'm that I would
Speaker 2: con sitter following or being invested into. I do think
Speaker 2: this cast of men had very little marriage potential. Now.
Speaker 2: I'm not even talking about the finale episode. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about now, like I look back on even some of
Speaker 2: the men that were eliminated with six people left, and
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I don't think any of these dudes were
Speaker 2: marriage potential, like they did. The cast need a really
Speaker 2: bad job at finding men who were one ready, too
Speaker 2: humble enough to not just want the fame of it
Speaker 2: all but want the love from it, and then that
Speaker 2: match Jin. And maybe that is because they didn't know
Speaker 2: Jen was going to be the bachelor till the very end.
Speaker 2: But I did not think this cast of men had
Speaker 2: a lot of marriage winners in it.
Speaker 3: I would say, yes, Ben, I completely agree with you
Speaker 3: with these guys obviously were so not ready for marriage
Speaker 3: and I, oh, gosh, it's so awful to say, but
Speaker 3: I think a lot of them were there for Maria.
Speaker 3: Don't you think.
Speaker 2: It felt? It does feel like the kind of the
Speaker 2: personalities of these men matched more of like the the
Speaker 2: Maria type Jevin does. Yeah, definitely does. There are some
Speaker 2: guys from Charity season that we did forget. Braiden obviously, Braiden.
Speaker 3: Bowers, Bryden Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Branden obviously is a name that we probably should remember.
Speaker 2: So you know. There was John Henry, uh from.
Speaker 3: John Henry was cute but like and he played a
Speaker 3: big role in Paradise. Yeah, but I don't like associate
Speaker 3: him with the season.
Speaker 2: But that's real. I mean, we're not wrong in saying
Speaker 2: that this. You know, this cast I think will remember
Speaker 2: a few more names from uh. I just think cher.
Speaker 2: I think Jen did a really good job at helping
Speaker 2: us know this cast. I think she asked really good questions.
Speaker 2: I think she was very engaging, and I think she
Speaker 2: spoke her mind, which allowed for really fun conversations to
Speaker 2: watch about this season. So, with all that being said,
Speaker 2: up to the final final episode, this was an enjoyable
Speaker 2: season to watch. I was invested going into last Night
Speaker 2: and incredibly curious about how last Night would go because
Speaker 2: you and I did stay, which hasn't happened. I did
Speaker 2: not stay completely unspoiled for Joey's season.
Speaker 3: Well that's because you became friends with Joey. I was
Speaker 3: pretty unspoiled for Joey's season and last night, well, let
Speaker 3: me tell you this, I was pretty unspoiled up until
Speaker 3: within the past week. I heard from a really good
Speaker 3: friend who said that Devin had slid into her DMS,
Speaker 3: and that sort of spoiled things for me a little bit.
Speaker 3: I didn't know exactly how it was going to end,
Speaker 3: but I knew that they weren't together.
Speaker 2: Is this a good friend from the show, No, so
Speaker 2: some random friend.
Speaker 3: That you have exactly which makes it worse.
Speaker 2: You're telling me that Devin is so hungry and active
Speaker 2: that this comment, and we're going to get into it
Speaker 2: a lot more later. But this comment from Jin that
Speaker 2: he was following Maria, which I felt like, had more
Speaker 2: to it than what was just being said on television,
Speaker 2: because with all that happened, I don't think she wanted
Speaker 2: to absolutely destroy him on national television, and I definitely
Speaker 2: don't think he wanted to try to protect himself because
Speaker 2: it would made him look terrible. But you're telling me
Speaker 2: that comment from Jin where she says you followed Maria
Speaker 2: obviously had more weight to it because he didn't just
Speaker 2: follow Maria before the freaking finale could even come out.
Speaker 2: He was messaging random humans, not for the show.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure she said that she was like girls,
Speaker 3: including Maria most notably. Yeah, it's just a guess. This
Speaker 3: girl followed him just because she's been a fan of
Speaker 3: him from the show, like this personality. And then yeah,
Speaker 3: then he DMed.
Speaker 2: Her so much to get into there. We're going to
Speaker 2: cover that and so we're back, good friend, We're gonna
Speaker 2: follow Uh, We're gonna talk about that and so much
Speaker 2: more as we continue. But Let's start with the breakdown
Speaker 2: of the episode. Let's start at the beginning. We see
Speaker 2: the date and the time with Marcus. Marcus has always
Speaker 2: been a front runner since night one. Obviously, Marcus and
Speaker 2: Jen have had this connection, but the storyline going through
Speaker 2: this season has been Marcus just can't get there. I
Speaker 2: do think that this has been a secondary storyline to most.
Speaker 2: It was a secondary storyline to the sam m sam
Speaker 2: in and also to kind of even Jonathan going home unexpectedly.
Speaker 2: But this week we really get to focus on Marcus
Speaker 2: and where his feelings lie. His feelings as he communicates,
Speaker 2: just aren't there with Jen. It surprises me that they
Speaker 2: couldn't get there. I know, and there are rumors upon
Speaker 2: rumors on Reddit about a lot of these contestants. Those
Speaker 2: are things that have not yet been proven true. So
Speaker 2: I have to look through the filter of what I
Speaker 2: know from the show to make any type of assumption
Speaker 2: or comment on this. So taking any of the stuff
Speaker 2: that's going on in the outside of the show into perspective,
Speaker 2: I appreciated Marcus's honesty. I do appreciate the fact that
Speaker 2: he wasn't pulling a Devin and saying the right thing,
Speaker 2: so that he ends up at the end and then
Speaker 2: ultimately breaking her heart or her breaking his heart after
Speaker 2: the fact. And so I think within the vacuum of
Speaker 2: the show, Marcus's way of communicating with Jin and how
Speaker 2: they say goodbye to each other was probably the most
Speaker 2: respectful way you could do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, except for like he kind of wanted to stick around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just kind of like seeing how long
Speaker 2: he could last until Yeah, he had to get down
Speaker 2: on me.
Speaker 3: He like was down to go on the date. She
Speaker 3: made the right move and being like, no, we're not
Speaker 3: going to do this. And you know what's interesting is that,
Speaker 3: like she says that her feelings for Devin were stronger,
Speaker 3: and we read that different the entire season. Do you
Speaker 3: think that we were wrong or do you think that
Speaker 3: there's like an edit in her head.
Speaker 2: That her Are you asking me if I think her
Speaker 2: feelings for Marcus or for Devin we're stronger than Marcus.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that that is a little bit of a
Speaker 2: revisionist history that she's telling herself. Yeah, she's looking back
Speaker 2: and at the end going, you know what, it's always
Speaker 2: been devon, which is a fair thought to have, especially
Speaker 2: as you're sitting across from somebody kind of having this breakup.
Speaker 2: You're like, it's fine because I have the person I've
Speaker 2: always been more into. I don't think, and the show
Speaker 2: makes it. It doesn't really come off on television. It's
Speaker 2: really hard to have a clear favorite. I think it
Speaker 2: has happened in some seasons, and I think that is
Speaker 2: true love, and we've seen that true love last I
Speaker 2: think it's really hard to have a clear favorite for
Speaker 2: much longer than the last few days because you're so
Speaker 2: you're compartmentalizing so much, and your brain has kind of
Speaker 2: trained itself to have all these separate relationships. It's hard
Speaker 2: to kind of compare and contrast until it really gets
Speaker 2: down to two and you see where those two lie.
Speaker 3: Okay, very interesting, I do think.
Speaker 2: I do think there's some exceptions. I think the Jojo
Speaker 2: Jordan things an exception. I think Dotten and Charity are
Speaker 2: an exception. I'm assuming with Zach shell Cross the season
Speaker 2: and Katie, I think that's an exception. I think there
Speaker 2: are some exceptions. No, No, I don't think I put
Speaker 2: Caitlin and Sean in that category.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, do you want to talk about the
Speaker 3: family meet and greets real quick? Because just like overall,
Speaker 3: the family didn't seem to be down with either. Dude,
Speaker 3: I don't know that anybody would have gotten their approval though.
Speaker 3: They just are not for this process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely not for the process now, I'm assuming
Speaker 2: after last night, but the family and I also know
Speaker 2: the producer's influence on the family in those moments, and
Speaker 2: so for Jin, she's been produced for about six months
Speaker 2: of her life at this point. Right she was on
Speaker 2: the Bachelorette or on the Bachelor. Now she's on the Bachelorette.
Speaker 2: She kind of understands the game. That's an important thing
Speaker 2: to know. She's understands the language they're using and how
Speaker 2: they're trying to kind of like manipulate the situation or
Speaker 2: manipulate her or speak into her. She's gotten it. She's
Speaker 2: become a pro and she listens when she wants to listen,
Speaker 2: and she doesn't when she doesn't want to. For a family,
Speaker 2: it's a little different. You walk in blind, you're here
Speaker 2: for a few hours, and you have four producers being
Speaker 2: so nice to you and making sure that they're so
Speaker 2: hospitable to you and that they are your best friend,
Speaker 2: and they tell you how great your sister or daughter
Speaker 2: is and how wonderful she's doing. And then they get
Speaker 2: into the truth and they're like, but gosh, the guys are
Speaker 2: just terrible. You know.
Speaker 3: This is why I love that you were at that
Speaker 3: part of the process multiple you know, and I wasn't.
Speaker 3: So it's hilarious to hear this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can. But you've been around long enough
Speaker 2: to know this is not an untrue statement that this
Speaker 2: could be Definitely, this is definitely how it goes down.
Speaker 2: And they start to just use these subtle the subtle
Speaker 2: language that they believe is subtle. I think it's very
Speaker 2: clear to see through it once you're in it long
Speaker 2: enough to kind of distract from their actual own personal opinions.
Speaker 2: So they come in and the show knows that Jenn's
Speaker 2: family is going to have a hard time with this process.
Speaker 2: They know they're going to be hesitant to give anybody
Speaker 2: their approval, and so the show starts to play into
Speaker 2: that and starts to really start to stab at that
Speaker 2: and open up this feeling for them to being like, no,
Speaker 2: I got to protect my sister, No, I got to
Speaker 2: protect my daughter because these guys aren't ready for her.
Speaker 3: But don't they make it seem like one person's better
Speaker 3: than the.
Speaker 2: Other most seasons. I think on this season they knew exactly.
Speaker 2: I think this show had a really good idea of
Speaker 2: how this is going to play out. I think they
Speaker 2: they knew Devin, and they knew how he was probably
Speaker 2: going to respond to the fame and to the attention
Speaker 2: and to it. And the show knows, Yes, the show
Speaker 2: knows these contestants really well. With Marcus at this point,
Speaker 2: they already knew he was doubting, and they're like, this
Speaker 2: is not a guy that has ever been that into Jen,
Speaker 2: and so as a result, let's play that up. And
Speaker 2: the show loves a new ending. I think that's something
Speaker 2: we want to talk about later. The show loves a
Speaker 2: new ending. They love something that's shocking that they can
Speaker 2: market as something that's never happened before. The show loves it.
Speaker 2: They always have and so I think in their mind
Speaker 2: they had this idea that we know how this show
Speaker 2: is now going to end. We know this new end,
Speaker 2: and so this is what we can do to help
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 3: But you know what's really weird is when the teasers happened,
Speaker 3: the beginning of the season was happening, and we were
Speaker 3: talking about it here and calling, you know, our prediction
Speaker 3: for the ending the first week of July, second of July.
Speaker 3: They weren't. They weren't broken up, they were together, and
Speaker 3: then why did all of us It's almost as if
Speaker 3: it was like a self fulfilling prophecy, or that's probably
Speaker 3: not the right term something.
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is.
Speaker 3: It's just like the whole tease was that she was
Speaker 3: going to end up alone, right, and then she ends
Speaker 3: up alone. But when we were all predicting that she
Speaker 3: was going to end up alone, she actually wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what you're saying it it is that the
Speaker 2: marketing has always pointed to the fact that Jin wasn't
Speaker 2: going to be happy at the end, or that she
Speaker 2: didn't find anybody at the end, and yet at that
Speaker 2: time when the first show first started, she was with somebody,
Speaker 2: So she was happy, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's certainly going through it.
Speaker 2: My point to what I just said before was the
Speaker 2: show knows these contestants well exactly. I think they always
Speaker 2: knew that Devin wasn't going to make it through this one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they knew this attention, They knew that he was seeking,
Speaker 2: you know, this approval from the audience and as soon
Speaker 2: as this became really exciting, and maybe his dms did
Speaker 2: start to fill up with people being inquisitive, like, hey,
Speaker 2: if you're not with Jen, I'm I'm here, He's they
Speaker 2: the show knew that he would jump on it, because,
Speaker 2: to be honest, the show and it's it's creepy. I
Speaker 2: have many stories and I can't share him here. I
Speaker 2: have many stories about how the show before you know,
Speaker 2: when I'm even off of it, have said something about
Speaker 2: somebody and it's ended up being true maybe a year later,
Speaker 2: maybe two years later. The show knows these contestants so well.
Speaker 2: It's creepy you.
Speaker 3: Think that they had any hand in changing Devin's mind,
Speaker 3: or that they just knew his personality well enough, because like, seriously,
Speaker 3: they are just they're like psyched, They're like Joe like psychiatrists.
Speaker 3: They know the brands so well.
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I don't think the show has I
Speaker 2: don't think their best outcome for this season was that
Speaker 2: the two of them end up together. And so you know,
Speaker 2: Devin has a producer that he's become really close with.
Speaker 2: So how this works is when you get to the
Speaker 2: end of the show, whoever whatever producer has connected most
Speaker 2: with you throughout this season, ends up being kind of
Speaker 2: your one on one producer for the last few weeks
Speaker 2: of the show. So when you get down to the
Speaker 2: final four, each four, each contestant ends up getting a
Speaker 2: one producer for them. Instead of like five different producers
Speaker 2: speaking into him, it's one uh, And so that producer
Speaker 2: ends up becoming a really good friend. End up trusting
Speaker 2: this producer, You end up caring about this producer, And
Speaker 2: quite frankly, I do believe for the most part, the
Speaker 2: producers care about you as well at some level, you know,
Speaker 2: because their job and because if they didn't, it's a
Speaker 2: really hard couple months of their life. And then this
Speaker 2: producer kind of stays with you post show, especially if
Speaker 2: you're devon. They're going to talk to you every day.
Speaker 2: They're sending you a text, they're checking in on you,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Not in like a manipulative way, guys, in like a
Speaker 3: we're informing you aby like how your life is going
Speaker 3: to be over the next few weeks, Like this is
Speaker 3: going to happen in the next episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they check in with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you you're gonna have to come for this,
Speaker 3: and yeah, you hear from them a lot.
Speaker 2: But as Devin starts, as the producer starts to think
Speaker 2: that Devin is looking outward to other things outside of Gin.
Speaker 2: I don't think that producer was necessarily trying to uh
Speaker 2: support him in coming back to Jen. I think they
Speaker 2: would probably like, tell me more, Oh that makes sense, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what. It's hard. Of course, you were doubting
Speaker 2: your feelings going through this process. Remember when we talked
Speaker 2: about it in Tahiti, how you were doubting your feelings. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what. We probably should have been more honest
Speaker 2: at that point. And then all of a sudden, he
Speaker 2: has this person on their side, sent you know, coaching
Speaker 2: them up. They ended up breaking up, and then that
Speaker 2: producer calls the executive producers within the next five minutes
Speaker 2: being like, hey, Devin and Jen, they're not together anymore.
Speaker 2: And Devin's you know, out there messaging girls on Instagram,
Speaker 2: and then the whole new storyline began. So that's a
Speaker 2: long winded way of saying that I don't think the
Speaker 2: show pushed them apart. I don't think the show also
Speaker 2: tried to bring them back together, based on my experience,
Speaker 2: because I know, in my experience as soon as somebody
Speaker 2: in my relationship started doubting, the producers were very much
Speaker 2: in favor of supporting that doubt.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, can we just skip to it the doubt
Speaker 3: the after the final rowse because I need to know.
Speaker 2: About your brother was great. Can we just say that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think he deserves a mention on this show.
Speaker 2: I think he deserves a mention on the podcast. I mean,
Speaker 2: very protective, very intuitive, you know obviously for how the
Speaker 2: ending worked. Big star, which we've seen multiple times. You know,
Speaker 2: as these seasons have progressed that somebody in the family
Speaker 2: really becomes a big star, he becomes a big star.
Speaker 2: Last night he was all over social media. Uh and
Speaker 2: uh and just I thought he was a really good
Speaker 2: big brother in this process.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally was.
Speaker 2: Let's jump into it, Ashley. I'll let you take it away.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's talk about you just said that. You know,
Speaker 3: there were doubts. I don't even believe that their word
Speaker 3: outs for Devna during the show, like, not at all. Actually, why,
Speaker 3: I don't think he's that good of like you think
Speaker 3: that he's that good of an actor.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's acting. I don't I think acting
Speaker 2: would be the word I would.
Speaker 3: Say, you think that he was festering doubts in his
Speaker 3: head before the proposal moment.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess I don't know. I want
Speaker 2: to hear why you don't think he was. I think
Speaker 2: there is.
Speaker 3: Call me swindled, you guy, you know that, That's how
Speaker 3: I always just fall for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think what we saw from Devin
Speaker 2: was this passion and this fight. We kind of saw
Speaker 2: it all season. I think it was easy to believe
Speaker 2: that he was head over heels for Jin based on
Speaker 2: the words he was saying and the actions he was giving.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me. I don't think. Actually, I don't
Speaker 2: think Devin truly believed he had doubts until the attention
Speaker 2: started to come. I think that from in my opinion,
Speaker 2: the tipping point for him existed when the attention from
Speaker 2: the outside world became so strong that he started to go.
Speaker 2: But there's this girl that looks great on Instagram. I'm
Speaker 2: not that into Gin anymore, you know what. I've never
Speaker 2: been that into Gin. I had all these questions about Jin.
Speaker 2: I do think though, he can look back on moments
Speaker 2: during the season where his interaction with Jim made him
Speaker 2: go huh, maybe this isn't what I thought it was. However,
Speaker 2: I do think at that proposal, and I do think
Speaker 2: through the last couple of weeks he had zero doubts.
Speaker 2: I do believe that that's what I mean. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: creating this story. I mean because it would it's mind
Speaker 2: boggling to me. I guess, knowing this world and being
Speaker 2: in this world and being the Bachelor at one point
Speaker 2: in my life, it's mind boggling to me to think
Speaker 2: that you could be getting down on one knee and asking,
Speaker 2: you know, for this engagement if you had all these
Speaker 2: doubts swirling in your head. It just feels so much easier.
Speaker 2: And like we said, I would respect it so much
Speaker 2: more if some of these contestants would just go, you
Speaker 2: know what, like let's date afterwards. Because this whole thing
Speaker 2: has too many questions to me right now, I'm not
Speaker 2: making sense of it all. It's moving too fast. There's
Speaker 2: been another person involved up until the very end. That
Speaker 2: feels weird to me. That would be I would respect
Speaker 2: that decision, and I would not be mad about watching
Speaker 2: a season that ended that way.
Speaker 3: Same.
Speaker 2: I think, however, I do think that there is this
Speaker 2: pressure and I'm not trying to give Devin out here
Speaker 2: because I have a lot of things to say about Devon,
Speaker 2: But I do think in this specific situation, there is
Speaker 2: this pressure that exists when you're on the show to
Speaker 2: end in a proposal, and sometimes that pressure can become
Speaker 2: so much that it clouds rational thinking.
Speaker 3: Do you think that he when he was gonna leave
Speaker 3: last week because the pressure of like not being chosen
Speaker 3: was getting to be too much and he just didn't
Speaker 3: want to like not be chosen. Do you think that
Speaker 3: was him trying to get out?
Speaker 2: It could be.
Speaker 3: In hindsight, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I still think so.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of playing Devil's advocate here. I don't think
Speaker 3: that was the situation, but it's interesting to think of it.
Speaker 2: It could be. I do think it showed his lack
Speaker 2: of desire to fight for this relationship.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: I think that was definitely proven.
Speaker 3: I just can't believe him. I can't believe I've been
Speaker 3: I woke up in the middle of the night like
Speaker 3: thinking that it was like a dream. I was like,
Speaker 3: he did that. I can't believe he did that. I
Speaker 3: feel as swindled by him as she she well, obviously
Speaker 3: she feels more. But I feel like we all feel
Speaker 3: like he pulled the wole over his eyes, pulled the
Speaker 3: wole over our eyes because at the beginning of the season,
Speaker 3: even from his bio, we were like suspect of this guy,
Speaker 3: and then he made us love him and now and
Speaker 3: now he just proves to be the guy that we
Speaker 3: should have always been skeptical of.
Speaker 2: See, it's intra for me because, as I said earlier,
Speaker 2: none of these guys ever really did it for me
Speaker 2: in terms of, Oh, I see them with her at
Speaker 2: the end, and I'm really like supportive of Even if
Speaker 2: they would have got engaged I and like stayed together,
Speaker 2: I think I've already I would always been like yeah,
Speaker 2: but like it's he's not that tight like he he
Speaker 2: had a He had a really weird storyline this season.
Speaker 2: The reason he was around long, like for as long
Speaker 2: as he was was because at first he was like
Speaker 2: very intent on spending time with Jin and making sure
Speaker 2: she knew he was into her. It's shocking to me
Speaker 2: that he even made it past the fourth week because
Speaker 2: it felt like to me, he was one of those
Speaker 2: characters that we was gonna like try so hard and
Speaker 2: be so thankful for being there. And kind of cause
Speaker 2: this weird controversy inside the house and then she was
Speaker 2: gonna let him go. It's it. I never expected him
Speaker 2: to be there past the fourth fifth week.
Speaker 3: That's why I thought it was kind of cool. Then
Speaker 3: it was kind of cool to me to just see somebody,
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I can't Yes, it was the ultimate
Speaker 3: underdog story. When he was like looking for the rings, yeah,
Speaker 3: for all the one down, I was like, this is
Speaker 3: so cool, Like who would have ever thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it could be the underdog story. I do
Speaker 2: think it was ultimately an underdog story, and I think
Speaker 2: with that in perspective, it gives me my opinion on
Speaker 2: Devin at this point was he is the underdog. I
Speaker 2: remember this scene early in the season that made Nick
Speaker 2: that was so relatable where all the guys I think
Speaker 2: it was during the strip tease date and he said,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not like all these guys. They're all
Speaker 2: like super strong and buff, and like I'm not and
Speaker 2: I have hair and all this stuff, and it was like,
Speaker 2: that's a like, that's actually a really cool moment and
Speaker 2: a really funny fun thing for you to say, and
Speaker 2: it's a relatable thing for you to say. I think
Speaker 2: for up to that point, it was still his mindset
Speaker 2: was I'm just lucky to be here. Jen is so amazing,
Speaker 2: I'm so lucky to have her in my life. I'm
Speaker 2: so interested in what is to come. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's used to a lot of attention. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's used to a lot of people being like Devin
Speaker 2: hit me up. Yeah, And as soon as that started
Speaker 2: to happen, his mindset changed. His ego got in the
Speaker 2: way of the truth or of who he is as
Speaker 2: a person. Do I hope he comes back to that someday.
Speaker 2: I do. I hope that he comes back to this,
Speaker 2: not like, hey, I'm so I'm down on myself all
Speaker 2: the time type of person. But I do think he
Speaker 2: comes back to the to some reality where he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm you know what, I'm lucky to be here, still
Speaker 2: like I'm fortunate to have a spot on this whole show.
Speaker 2: And it changed as soon as attentionion started to come
Speaker 2: to him. It's obvious, right, It's why he started to
Speaker 2: reach out. It's why probably the clubbing existed, It's why
Speaker 2: Jen was so upset about the club being because you
Speaker 2: know what happens Ashley happens every season no matter who
Speaker 2: it is. The contestants get together if you're with the
Speaker 2: person or not, and people who have been eliminated from
Speaker 2: the show still have most of the time, some like
Speaker 2: anger towards the lead who eliminated them for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: or they're just like they've moved on, and in their
Speaker 2: mind they tell themselves this story that you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm so much better off without him or her because
Speaker 2: now I'm going clubbing and I get all this attention,
Speaker 2: I get this bottle service, and I get like hit
Speaker 2: up all the time, and like life's so much better
Speaker 2: that I didn't end up with that person on the show.
Speaker 2: And they honestly kind of just talk smack amongst each other.
Speaker 2: That group chat talk smack against the lead. It's their
Speaker 2: common enemy. It's the common thing that brings them together
Speaker 2: where they're just you know, they laugh and make fun
Speaker 2: of the lead. So Devin goes clubbing with other contestants
Speaker 2: from the show. What do you think is happening That
Speaker 2: Jen knows is happening. She knows she's not stupid by
Speaker 2: any means, She's not stupid. She knows that Devin goes
Speaker 2: clubbing with Jeremy and yes it's for climbing whatever. I
Speaker 2: don't care. That part doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 3: The club part was for client meaning, and.
Speaker 2: She knows that Devin is getting infiltrated with kind of
Speaker 2: not hate speech, but just this anger towards Jen. And
Speaker 2: these guys are probably rallying around being like, Devin, look
Speaker 2: at our life like kind of sucks you with gin right, like,
Speaker 2: look at what we get to do?
Speaker 3: Yo. I'm not in a man's brain, but I don't
Speaker 3: understand why you'd want anything or anyone besides Jen in
Speaker 3: that relationship.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that he should have, I think at
Speaker 2: some point in his life to look back and be like, gosh, dang,
Speaker 2: I made the mistake. Like I had an amazing person
Speaker 2: with me, that was committed to me, that wanted me,
Speaker 2: that wanted to grow old with me, and I couldn't
Speaker 2: get out of my own way to think, Hey, could
Speaker 2: I settle down. I'm not saying set a lean. I'm
Speaker 2: saying set down to take that life of the clubbing
Speaker 2: and the friends and the attention out of it, totally
Speaker 2: separate myself from it because I have this person that
Speaker 2: I've dreamed of and that I've wanted I think when
Speaker 2: Devin started this show, he dreamed of and wanted and
Speaker 2: believed he wanted one person. I think the attention caused
Speaker 2: him to think, goodness, gracious, life is so much better.
Speaker 2: On the other.
Speaker 3: Side, there's so many guys in bachelorette past that like
Speaker 3: just look at them as examples as to like, this
Speaker 3: plan that you have now or that you had the
Speaker 3: before last night is just not going to pan out
Speaker 3: the way that you think it's going to. People want
Speaker 3: girls find it. Girls like we want you to be
Speaker 3: with the lead. We want you to have a happy,
Speaker 3: you know ending, and there's nothing attractive about what you did.
Speaker 3: These girls are not going to want to be with you.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: You might get a few dms that want to, but like,
Speaker 3: you've just disgusted ninety nine percent of these girls, and
Speaker 3: now you're gonna have You're gonna be walking around with
Speaker 3: a big red flag. You have a that scarlet letter
Speaker 3: on you now because of what you did to Jen.
Speaker 2: Let's yeah, the truth is this, and we would tell
Speaker 2: any contestant, And you're right, there's great examples of this
Speaker 2: in the past. You can talk to people who've gone
Speaker 2: through that season of life and came out of that
Speaker 2: season of life and have gone goodness gracious, like that
Speaker 2: was not a fun season. I hit my ultimate low
Speaker 2: and now I had to rebuild and reheal and try
Speaker 2: to figure out how to build something different for myself.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of it.
Speaker 3: You're never going to get away with it, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like, you're gonna get caught.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get caught.
Speaker 3: Hence me saying I have a friend who's DMS. You
Speaker 3: already slid into.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a it's not a healthy path. It's
Speaker 2: it's if I don't I'm not want to give advice,
Speaker 2: but I would say this is a very clear, by
Speaker 2: if history tells us anything, very clear path that does
Speaker 2: not lead to joy fulfillment, love and hope. It leads
Speaker 2: to a lot of like really lonely times. And that
Speaker 2: comes from you know, experience, and so this is this
Speaker 2: is a decision that feels best in the moment. It's
Speaker 2: a decision made without understanding what this looks like in
Speaker 2: two three years. I'm sure they'll get a lot of attention.
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll see on Instagram for the next four
Speaker 2: or five months, these guys going to the clubs, going
Speaker 2: to the bars, going to different events together, posting pictures
Speaker 2: of each other, and I'm sure it's going to look
Speaker 2: like the best time ever, But that time fades, and
Speaker 2: what happens when it fades? You're left at the end
Speaker 2: going could have done it so much better? So you
Speaker 2: know what? To summarize all of this about Devin specifically,
Speaker 2: I think if I was to talk to him on
Speaker 2: this show show or talk to him on the phone,
Speaker 2: I would say, I think you made a really bad
Speaker 2: decision based on what felt best in the moment and
Speaker 2: not based on what you've always dreamed, desired and cared about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm just saying appearance wise, if you were
Speaker 3: caught like I don't think, I don't condone this idea.
Speaker 3: But if you really were caught up with your ego
Speaker 3: and wanting all the girls that were falling go on Instagram,
Speaker 3: and you wanted to go clubbing in New York, and
Speaker 3: you wanted to have all that like female attention, and
Speaker 3: you wanted to play this right, you would stick with
Speaker 3: Jen for quite some time, make everything look wonderful and romantic,
Speaker 3: and then you guys could break up later.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean give him credit for the authenticity least
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't any long dumb moves.
Speaker 3: Lots of lots of dumb moves. But I'm sorry to
Speaker 3: even say that out loud, but like all the moves
Speaker 3: that he made were awful, and he deserves the consequences
Speaker 3: of the move that he did make.
Speaker 2: I actually felt like last night he didn't come off
Speaker 2: as bad as what they potentially could have. I thought
Speaker 2: Jin was respectful to not air all the dirty laundry
Speaker 2: because I think she has enough receipts to probably like
Speaker 2: make him look pretty bad right now. And I think
Speaker 2: she held a lot in for the sake of, you know,
Speaker 2: respect at any level. Yet Yeah, and it felt like
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff she was saying was not
Speaker 2: exactly digging into the details of the situation because she
Speaker 2: knew the details were really ugly. And I think he
Speaker 2: kept bringing up like excuses, and I think every time
Speaker 2: she looked at him, like do you really want to
Speaker 2: make use that excuse? Because I have more information, you know,
Speaker 2: that I could share, and you know I do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of kept his mouth shut a little
Speaker 3: bit because he just kept saying I'm sorry, like I'm well,
Speaker 3: like you know, I'm sorry. He never like was like
Speaker 3: Jen but this you did this, It was not that
Speaker 3: he did keep saying like it was my bad, it
Speaker 3: was my bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't say much. He knew he
Speaker 2: didn't have much. He didn't have.
Speaker 3: I watched it again, honestly because I was like, did
Speaker 3: he explain why?
Speaker 2: He is no explanation. His explanation would make him look
Speaker 2: so much worse than what last night did. His explanation
Speaker 2: has to be Yeah, I started getting these dms, I
Speaker 2: got a lot of attention and yeah, you know what,
Speaker 2: like I moved on and it would make him look worse.
Speaker 2: So he didn't have He knows he didn't have any
Speaker 2: way out of this, and I honestly think this night
Speaker 2: last night was haunting him for a long time. I
Speaker 2: like how he says he didn't have to be there.
Speaker 2: Of course he does. It's contractual. There's no way he
Speaker 2: wasn't showing up to that thing. Yeah, either le he
Speaker 2: loses his entire net worth or he shows up to
Speaker 2: a live event. So I love that he's like, I
Speaker 2: didn't have to I just want to check in and
Speaker 2: make sure you're okay. That's bs, we all know it.
Speaker 3: But he's going to make sure you're Okay, so I
Speaker 3: decided to do it right here live on stage.
Speaker 2: He's been dreading this moment for a long time. I
Speaker 2: think for him, he thinks he just had to get
Speaker 2: through last night and then this all calms down.
Speaker 3: She was very nice on her Instagram saying like, don't
Speaker 3: spread hate it, like don't go to his profile and
Speaker 3: say many things like you know, that's just not good
Speaker 3: energy to put out there in the world.
Speaker 2: Now, the truth is, Jen is gonna shine. She's going
Speaker 2: to come off of this thing. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: about some of the stuff that's already been announced for her,
Speaker 2: and then in the upcoming feature, She's gonna shine. She's
Speaker 2: going to be a star. She's going to get all
Speaker 2: the attention that all these guys have always wanted. And
Speaker 2: they're going to slowly fade often too the distance and
Speaker 2: go back to the normal lives, which is a great thing.
Speaker 2: But I hope when they go back to their normal lives,
Speaker 2: they can actually go back to a normal life and
Speaker 2: not walk down the street like we know some have
Speaker 2: that has a shirt that says, yes, I was on
Speaker 2: the Bachelorette, you know, and make sure that everybody knows.
Speaker 2: But at one point in my life. I was on
Speaker 2: this random television show with thirty other people and chosen
Speaker 2: and so you should give me a lot of attention
Speaker 2: for it. I hope none of them do that. It's
Speaker 2: a really bad way. It ends up not ending well.
Speaker 3: But Ben, we have to talk about the proposal, her
Speaker 3: decision to propose, and then their decision to error the
Speaker 3: way that they did.
Speaker 2: No, one hundred percent, let's talk about the the worst
Speaker 2: treatment of a lead that's ever been done on the show.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, wasn't there one other moment that we
Speaker 3: felt was very similar a couple of seasons ago.
Speaker 2: We've had many moments where the show has kind of
Speaker 2: exploited the pains of the lead for their you know, gain,
Speaker 2: or for the social media part. Night was in my opinion,
Speaker 2: at least to my memory. My note was, this has
Speaker 2: to be the worst treatment of a lead of all time.
Speaker 2: It felt unnecessary. One like unnecessary. That's like some of
Speaker 2: the times when the lead has had to sit through
Speaker 2: some awkward moments on national television. We can make an
Speaker 2: argument for why it was necessary. Either it cleans up
Speaker 2: a story, it solves a story, It fills some gaps,
Speaker 2: it speaks to maybe some hate that they've been receiving,
Speaker 2: and the general public maybe doesn't know why this last
Speaker 2: night was unnecessary at every level. It could have been
Speaker 2: done in a thousand I could come up right now
Speaker 2: as somebody doesn't get paid to produce, nor should I
Speaker 2: ever get paid to produce a thousand different ways that
Speaker 2: still creates a story, that still creates buzz, but doesn't
Speaker 2: put her through something completely cruel and unnecessary, because that's
Speaker 2: all it was. The whole time.
Speaker 3: This watching this, it felt like I was watching unreal.
Speaker 3: Remember the Lifetime show that was like basically the you know,
Speaker 3: the behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: The dramatization of the Bachelor was what that was.
Speaker 3: Yes, it felt like a parody of the Bachelor. And
Speaker 3: then I was like, oh, it was actually unreal, Like
Speaker 3: you could almost hear the producers in the back room
Speaker 3: feeding lines to Jesse because Jesse also to me and
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Jesse, it sounded like he was reading for
Speaker 3: a script.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we both like Jesse. We both feel
Speaker 2: like he's done as well as he can filling in
Speaker 2: and now kind of having the show as his There's
Speaker 2: no issue with Jesse here. What I said last night
Speaker 2: and my very uneducated opinion is Jesse's very busy right now.
Speaker 2: It's college football season. Jesse is flying in and out
Speaker 2: and mostly focusing on college football because that's now his
Speaker 2: job for the next few months. It's always been his
Speaker 2: j It felt like last night Joey or Jesse showed
Speaker 2: up to the Live show to go through rehearsals, and
Speaker 2: he heard about this thing happening, and he wasn't on
Speaker 2: top of it enough to put a foot in the
Speaker 2: ground and be like, I'm not doing it, because he
Speaker 2: does have that ability he does. Instead, it felt like
Speaker 2: he was just like, Okay, I gotta do that. Fine,
Speaker 2: let's do it. Goes through the whole thing, everything happens,
Speaker 2: and then he gets in that moment and he's like, crap,
Speaker 2: I'm unprepared for this. I don't know what to say
Speaker 2: during this moment. So I'm just gonna say the same
Speaker 2: thing a couple times over to try to make it
Speaker 2: seem like we care or that I care.
Speaker 3: But like the caring seems so insincere from him. It
Speaker 3: felt like he was getting words from the earpiece. Well
Speaker 3: it maybe gets you think he was Basically I think
Speaker 3: he was.
Speaker 2: I think he was unprepared. I don't think he had
Speaker 2: been involved in the last few months enough in this
Speaker 2: show to know exactly the tone, or to know exactly
Speaker 2: what was happening, or to hear how the updates were,
Speaker 2: or to actually listen to how Jen was feeling. Jen
Speaker 2: was sitting up there saying, I am crushed, like I
Speaker 2: am like right now, I'm at my lowest point. I'm
Speaker 2: bawling on national television. Jesse, do you ever think I
Speaker 2: wanted to do this? Do you ever think I wanted
Speaker 2: to wear this nice dress, put this makeup on, have
Speaker 2: this incredible season, go through all this experience and sit
Speaker 2: up here and cry for twenty minutes with you? No,
Speaker 2: So please, please, Jesse, as a lead, as somebody had
Speaker 2: sat with you and had dinner, as a friend of yours,
Speaker 2: is somebody who's trusted you, because in this whole experience,
Speaker 2: there's very little people to trust. Please, Jesse, don't put
Speaker 2: me through this. I'm already sad, I'm already crushed. I
Speaker 2: have nothing else to give you. And if Jesse wanted to,
Speaker 2: as I said, if he was prepared for this, he
Speaker 2: would have said, you know what, Jin, I don't care
Speaker 2: what the show thinks. You walk off the stage here,
Speaker 2: you go backstage. We're gonna watch a finale, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna make Devon sit out here and watch it with us.
Speaker 2: We're gonna make Devon sit on this couch alone, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a camera on the whole freaking time.
Speaker 2: And Jen, you go back and you heal and maybe
Speaker 2: if you're okay after the finale, come back out when
Speaker 2: Devon's not here, and just like, say your last five
Speaker 2: minutes to the audience of what this experience meant to you?
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, Yeah, his transition from you are a strong woman,
Speaker 3: and you made your choices and you grew from this
Speaker 3: and we are all in, all of you. Now it's
Speaker 3: time to watch your oposal. Do you want to watch
Speaker 3: your proposal? To prove to yourself how strong you are
Speaker 3: and how you know what a what a woman you are?
Speaker 3: Oh that I know I didn't have all the right
Speaker 3: words there in remembering what he said, but it was
Speaker 3: something like that, and just the transition from like, you
Speaker 3: are so powerful, are you ready for us to play
Speaker 3: this thing that like you never want to see? And
Speaker 3: then I love the fact that she said, do I
Speaker 3: really have a choice in this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love the respect and the build up for
Speaker 2: you've made strong choices, you were powerful, you've done it
Speaker 2: your way. And then for that moment, for heard be like,
Speaker 2: I see this, you've said all these things about me.
Speaker 2: And I think she laughed because I think in the
Speaker 2: background she's like, I've I was prepared for this, I've
Speaker 2: heard this was happening. I said I didn't want to
Speaker 2: do it. I said I wouldn't come out here even
Speaker 2: if you were going to do this. And now I
Speaker 2: sit here on live television, live TV. Yeah, and I'm
Speaker 2: going to tell you right now, I don't have a choice.
Speaker 2: So you've respected my choices, you've praised me for making
Speaker 2: good choices or making my choices, and now, in the
Speaker 2: moment that matters the most, you're not giving me a choice.
Speaker 3: It was subtle in the fact that like, I don't
Speaker 3: know that, Like a lot of people thought it was
Speaker 3: as big of a deal that she said that as
Speaker 3: it was for us to hear. But it was a
Speaker 3: big deal because there's moments where you get like caught
Speaker 3: and you're just like I don't want to do this
Speaker 3: and I can't believe this is about to happen. But
Speaker 3: here we go, like this is the nail on the coffin,
Speaker 3: and yeah, it would have been like why there are
Speaker 3: so many things. First off, they should have just aired
Speaker 3: the proposal the way that they normally would have aired
Speaker 3: the proposal, right after, you know, they picked out the rings,
Speaker 3: and then they could have sat down and it just
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been nearly as cruel. They did this weird
Speaker 3: thing where they were gonna where he was like, you know,
Speaker 3: we can't air this until after we talked to her.
Speaker 3: Was all it was, was like, we're just going to
Speaker 3: be extra cruel. Nobody in the audience saw that was
Speaker 3: a good move or that was a move that was
Speaker 3: going to make them feel more. We don't need to
Speaker 3: feel more. We don't need to feel more devastated for her.
Speaker 3: She doesn't need to feel more devastated for herself or embarrassed.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely the weirdest. I don't know what was going
Speaker 3: through their mind when they decided to do it like that.
Speaker 3: It would have been fine and very typical honestly to
Speaker 3: show a proposal and then to show the couple nots
Speaker 3: together and the live portion.
Speaker 2: One thing I think this moment does show us is
Speaker 2: the realness of the show, and I think the audience members,
Speaker 2: the people that view it need to understand and we
Speaker 2: need to understand that there is a realness to this show,
Speaker 2: that these are real people. They're not actors who are
Speaker 2: experiencing real emotions. For Jin, in this moment, this was
Speaker 2: a very real moment. She thought she had found her
Speaker 2: forever love. She thought she had found a guy who
Speaker 2: was going to stay with her and fight for her
Speaker 2: and stick beside her through all of this mess. We're
Speaker 2: seeing her emotion come out, and we're seeing her breakdown
Speaker 2: and really have to relive a breakup that she still
Speaker 2: sounded like she still has a lot of questions about.
Speaker 2: And that was very short and so I think it
Speaker 2: does show for us the realness of the show. For
Speaker 2: some people, I don't think this show is ever real.
Speaker 2: For Devin, I think it was made for a few weeks,
Speaker 2: I guess, But I don't think since the proposal and
Speaker 2: since you know, he got distracted and he started to
Speaker 2: believe this story that wasn't you know, reality, and that
Speaker 2: is not long lasting and that is not sustainable. I
Speaker 2: think for the last few months, this show has been
Speaker 2: a stepping stone for him to go to whatever he
Speaker 2: thinks he's going to. For Jen, She's at her stepping stone.
Speaker 2: She is a star, she was a lead, she made
Speaker 2: it through it, she navigated the process, she stayed with
Speaker 2: it the whole time, and now she sits there at
Speaker 2: the end of this broken and I think for her
Speaker 2: this has always been very real, and so I think
Speaker 2: as a viewer we need to understand that her emotions
Speaker 2: that we saw on that stage are her real emotions
Speaker 2: that she felt through this process. I also think Jen
Speaker 2: was probably told to keep ABC happy by doing this
Speaker 2: rewatch of the proposal, because you know she's announced with
Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3: Is that this morning? Did that happen this morning?
Speaker 2: I believe so. I've been in those situations before, right,
Speaker 2: I was told I can't do Dancing with the Stars
Speaker 2: because I wasn't doing everything to keep everybody happy. I
Speaker 2: know that she is now, probably and she should be.
Speaker 2: She's looking what's next, because this whole thing sucked. This
Speaker 2: whole thing then it ended like I wanted to. I've
Speaker 2: now bought on national television, which I don't think anybody's
Speaker 2: judging her for or criticizing her for. But she's now saying, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm moved on, and if I want something good to
Speaker 2: come from this. Maybe it's Dancing with the Stars. They've
Speaker 2: offered it to me. I know All'll have to do
Speaker 2: is sit through this thing. Then I as much as
Speaker 2: that sucks, and so I'm going to do it. So
Speaker 2: I don't really have a choice, is what she's saying.
Speaker 2: I want to transition though, because I do think this
Speaker 2: was unnecessary and cruel, and I do think there was
Speaker 2: a thousand other ways they could have done it. I
Speaker 2: do think that last night's finale, the whole time I
Speaker 2: watched this, it was unrecognizable to me. The show has
Speaker 2: made a lot of mistakes. The show has done a
Speaker 2: lot of things that have turned people off. Leads have
Speaker 2: said things that have made people critical. Contestants have done
Speaker 2: things that have made people upset. I think last night
Speaker 2: and the way that they made their lead, their person
Speaker 2: who has devoted so much time. And I know people
Speaker 2: think that she made a million bucks from this thing.
Speaker 2: She didn't. I can tell you the amount of money
Speaker 2: that you make being the lead, at least in my day,
Speaker 2: isn't really even an annual salary for most people. So
Speaker 2: she's not getting paid fat cash to do this thing.
Speaker 2: So don't ever think that's a part of the equation
Speaker 2: last night was so like, it was so clear of
Speaker 2: what the show wanted to get out of that moment,
Speaker 2: and it felt so intentionally cruel to me and so
Speaker 2: intentionally vindictive, almost towards Gin that it was unrecognizable to
Speaker 2: me in all of my years of being a part
Speaker 2: of the show.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm saying it felt like unreal because it's unreal.
Speaker 3: Was basically like everybody would say to me, is that
Speaker 3: the show for real? Is that show for real? And
Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh no, it is like it is
Speaker 3: like The Bachelor, but like on crack, Like it is
Speaker 3: like the most over the top version that they come
Speaker 3: up with it. It is like it is a parody
Speaker 3: of it. Yeah, that's why last night it was wild
Speaker 3: to see something that seemed as if like it was
Speaker 3: a It just seemed to be so over the top.
Speaker 3: I just don't know why they would ever think that
Speaker 3: was a good move, because no one is asking for
Speaker 3: that drama. Nobody is asking to watch somebody be ruined.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't understand. I really don't understand what
Speaker 3: was going through their heads.
Speaker 2: Let's dive into the unrecognizable part as we close out
Speaker 2: this thought, you're confused on what's going on in their heads.
Speaker 2: The producers heads. I think for them, they knew this
Speaker 2: would be talked about. They knew we'd get on the
Speaker 2: show today though almost famous podcast and talk about this moment.
Speaker 2: They knew social media would keep this thing, you know,
Speaker 2: trending and going because of last night's moment. There is
Speaker 2: a level that I think is beneficial to the show,
Speaker 2: even if it's bad press, because it gets people talking,
Speaker 2: it keeps the brand in their minds, it keeps them
Speaker 2: angry and upset. And I do think they think, I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's true or not, that people will
Speaker 2: tune in to the next season and to the next
Speaker 2: thing because they heard about it last season. So I
Speaker 2: do too. I'm not agreeing with that thought process. I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of other ways they could have
Speaker 2: done this, and I think they already had their storyline,
Speaker 2: and I think people were already going to talk about
Speaker 2: it with or without that moment. This whole thing goes
Speaker 2: down a lot better if they don't have that moment
Speaker 2: on camera.
Speaker 3: Because then it makes it seem like it's a show
Speaker 3: like you've been not you and I've been saying it
Speaker 3: just seems to me to be like Transparent, in which
Speaker 3: like there's so much tampering with the storyline and there's
Speaker 3: so much manipulation going on behind the scenes that people
Speaker 3: are just gonna be like, Oh, this show's fake. Anyway,
Speaker 3: this show is that it's a fake show, and this
Speaker 3: has made it seem like it was more of a
Speaker 3: fake show because their puppet strings showed so much.
Speaker 2: We know only one executive producer still left on the
Speaker 2: show from our.
Speaker 3: Time are personally, yeah, we personally.
Speaker 2: We personally only know one executive producer. I am going
Speaker 2: to be shocked and he listens to this show. This
Speaker 2: did not come from him, There's no way. And if
Speaker 2: it did, like I would be so confused because this
Speaker 2: is not This is not who he is. I know,
Speaker 2: it's not who he wants to be, and it's not
Speaker 2: what drives him to continue to produce this show.
Speaker 3: This is the least him.
Speaker 2: This had to come up from somewhere else. In fact,
Speaker 2: it had to come from somebody that, like, we don't
Speaker 2: know because in all the people that we know, and hey,
Speaker 2: I will never tell you that producing The Bachelor is
Speaker 2: like the most value based job that their morals and
Speaker 2: their character are intact the whole time. I will tell
Speaker 2: you that manipulation happens, that there is always the storyline
Speaker 2: that's being created. I will tell you that the people
Speaker 2: that produce the show aren't terrible people. I like them
Speaker 2: most of them, some of them, But being a producer
Speaker 2: on the show is not the like, not the most
Speaker 2: fulfilling job. However, the show has always had empathy, It's
Speaker 2: always had a line it doesn't cross. It's always respected
Speaker 2: and treated the lead with the utmost respect and tried
Speaker 2: to protect them if they could, and they have to
Speaker 2: take away from the story being created. Last night was
Speaker 2: unrecognizable to me because there's no way that anybody that
Speaker 2: I know that worked on that show said, yes, this
Speaker 2: is the good idea, Yes this is what the show
Speaker 2: is about. Yes this is what our audience wants. It
Speaker 2: feels like they just took twenty steps back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and where was the new We'll say this, there
Speaker 3: was a new staff, a new like t number, a
Speaker 3: number of new like head haun Jos came in about
Speaker 3: a year or so ago, and it left a lot
Speaker 3: of the people that Ben and I were close to
Speaker 3: during our time in the show either like it drove
Speaker 3: them to want to not be there anymore. And I
Speaker 3: feel like this moment is going to kind of like
Speaker 3: clear out everybody else that you and I were friends with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had people out, you know, come off the
Speaker 2: show as producers now and spoken you know, publicly about
Speaker 2: why they left the show and what you know reason
Speaker 2: they gave to leave the show, and all those reasonings
Speaker 2: make sense. These people do have a line they don't cross.
Speaker 2: They're not like these evil geniuses sitting in a room
Speaker 2: being like, how are you going to destroy this person?
Speaker 2: This person, this person. It's not what they They have
Speaker 2: families like they're they have families, they're married, they have friendships.
Speaker 2: They don't like love pain, and last night this moment,
Speaker 2: the only thing that came out of it was pain
Speaker 2: for gin and I think pain for the viewers to
Speaker 2: be like, how in the world am I gonna waste
Speaker 2: this much of my time watching somebody just hurt and
Speaker 2: suffer And then we're gonna make them suffer a little more.
Speaker 2: We're just gonna make it. We're gonna watch them in
Speaker 2: one of the most like brutal moments of their life
Speaker 2: to their memory, We're gonna make sure we focus in
Speaker 2: on it. There was no reason for it, completely unnecessary,
Speaker 2: something that I am very much against personally. I watched
Speaker 2: Gin last night as our first Asian bachelorette have the
Speaker 2: courage to say yes to this role and step out
Speaker 2: into that role and to do this role. I also
Speaker 2: saw her get incredibly taken Itajeo on her last five
Speaker 2: minutes of television, really for this show, and you know
Speaker 2: what they did for me. You know what they did
Speaker 2: for me in my last five minutes of television. What
Speaker 2: they gave me the stage and they said, Ben, say
Speaker 2: what you want to say. They gave me that space.
Speaker 2: So I got to stand up there and say, hey,
Speaker 2: I know this is my fifteen minutes of fame. I
Speaker 2: just appreciate the time and the you know, the courtesy
Speaker 2: of watching me and supporting me and doing this thing
Speaker 2: with me. You know how different that is than what
Speaker 2: they did the GIN so unnecessary. They could have done
Speaker 2: it so much better.
Speaker 3: World apart that again, not just keep bringing it back
Speaker 3: to the show unreal that hasn't been on the air
Speaker 3: for real, like at least five years. But the characters
Speaker 3: that show, they made it feel like the producers were
Speaker 3: truly soulless, like they had absolutely no character that they
Speaker 3: were evil people that wanted to make people destroy it
Speaker 3: and cry. And that's what it felt like last night.
Speaker 3: And that's just not who the people that the few
Speaker 3: people that we were that we know that remain there,
Speaker 3: just it doesn't feel a character for them. And I
Speaker 3: just know it wasn't wasn't them, No, it wasn't them.
Speaker 2: It's very very hard ending to a really great season.
Speaker 2: Jen did a great job as a bachelorette. It was
Speaker 2: an enjoyable season to watch for the most part.
Speaker 3: How absolutely weird was it also that they were like, well,
Speaker 3: as this girl cries on the couch next us, we're
Speaker 3: going to bring in the Golden Bachelorette. It just like,
Speaker 3: can we just like end the show, like, let's not
Speaker 3: change the tone now. It was so weird.
Speaker 2: It's very weird. Well, social media is talking about it
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like many people that we that I follow
Speaker 2: are didn't. They didn't enjoy last night. I assuming the
Speaker 2: this is a brand new conflict the show's opened up
Speaker 2: for them, so themselves. They did to themselves. There is
Speaker 2: no other excuse other than the fact that they said
Speaker 2: yes to a decision last night that will ultimately I
Speaker 2: think hurts the show not only to its current viewers
Speaker 2: but potential viewers in the future. But I will say
Speaker 2: the same sentiments that Jesse said, Jin as our bachelor
Speaker 2: at you did great, Thanks for letting us watch you
Speaker 2: from almost from his podcast, whatever's next for you? We
Speaker 2: hope it's a lot better than what last night was.
Speaker 2: And we know and believe, just based on who you are,
Speaker 2: that the future is very bright. It's only up from
Speaker 2: here because the show made sure last night it only
Speaker 2: went down. So Jin, best of luck, continue to be you.
Speaker 2: That's been another season of The Bachelorette that we've broken down. Obviously,
Speaker 2: our thoughts are our own, they're not anybody else's, but
Speaker 2: they feel like they're the mast majority of viewership. So
Speaker 2: if you disagree with us, let us know. If you
Speaker 2: loved watching Jen cry on national television last night as
Speaker 2: she had to reminisce and remember her proposal moment, let
Speaker 2: us know that too. I'd love to hear why you
Speaker 2: think that. But until next time, as we enter into
Speaker 2: a short off season, until we get into The Golden Bachelorette,
Speaker 2: which we watched a little preview four last night.
Speaker 3: I've been Ben, I've been Ashley back guys.
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.