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Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast

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Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: It's a famous podcast. We are here with the breakdown

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Speaker 2: of the finale episode from Gen season of The Bachelorette. Ashley,

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Speaker 2: before we dive into the finale episode, specifically outside of

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Speaker 2: the ending, because we're going to talk about the ending

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Speaker 2: now and our opinions on the ending and how we

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Speaker 2: felt about the ending for a long time. So instead

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Speaker 2: of just starting out with maybe our thoughts and feels,

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Speaker 2: I want to hear what you think of the season

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Speaker 2: in general, like up to the take take the ending

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Speaker 2: out of it, takes the last episode out of it

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Speaker 2: if you can. How did you feel about Gen's time

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Speaker 2: as the Bachelorette? How did you do as the Bachelorette?

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Speaker 2: What was your enjoyment watching the show? The contestants, you know,

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Speaker 2: and all the guys. Because what we do, and I

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Speaker 2: know I'm long winded here, but what we end up

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Speaker 2: doing is we break it down at the beginning and

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Speaker 2: we give our opinions on all these guys from their pictures.

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Speaker 2: We have no clue who they are, what they're doing,

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Speaker 2: and then we watch this season and I don't I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you've ever been more right about a

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Speaker 2: cast of characters, and we were this season based on

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Speaker 2: our assumptions with the pictures, and I want to hear

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Speaker 2: your thoughts in the season.

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Speaker 3: I really like the season. I find myself really liking

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Speaker 3: pretty much every season once we get down to the finale,

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Speaker 3: once we get down to like the top ten, I

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Speaker 3: think that every season. Now there's a pattern for me.

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Speaker 3: It's just those first couple episodes. You got to get

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Speaker 3: through them, and then once I get attached to the

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Speaker 3: lead and to the characters, I'm so excited to get

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Speaker 3: the episode in our inbox every week. Really like Jenn

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Speaker 3: as the lead. I think she did a great job,

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Speaker 3: and I felt that I like this cast of men

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Speaker 3: I felt more tied to then I have the past

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Speaker 3: few seasons, Like I went and I followed a few

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Speaker 3: of them and I was like, oh, I'm like interested

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Speaker 3: in their lives. And then I followed one last night.

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Speaker 2: Im sure you did, I'm sure you did?

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Speaker 3: What about Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What about you?

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Speaker 3: Ben?

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Speaker 2: Uh? You know, I might come at it from a

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Speaker 2: different angle. Honestly, I thought I was into the season.

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Speaker 2: I thought Jen did do a great job as the bachelorette.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense to us now why she was chosen

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Speaker 2: as the bachelorette for multiple reasons. I thought she coming

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Speaker 2: off of last season now was the clear choice, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think the only other person I would throw into

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Speaker 2: that mix was Daisy, who is obviously in a relationship

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Speaker 2: so she could not be the bachelorette and as she said,

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Speaker 2: it didn't fit her. I think the other person talked

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Speaker 2: about was Maria. Well, you know, things haven't you know,

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Speaker 2: gone where Maria has come out and been this huge

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Speaker 2: character from the show, like we kind of expected her

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Speaker 2: to be. I do think it shows that Jen coming

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Speaker 2: off last season, was the clear best choice for bachelorette,

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Speaker 2: and I think she did really well at it. I would, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I would also though just add I know there may

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Speaker 2: be is one or two then I'm that I would

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Speaker 2: con sitter following or being invested into. I do think

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Speaker 2: this cast of men had very little marriage potential. Now.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even talking about the finale episode. I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about now, like I look back on even some of

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Speaker 2: the men that were eliminated with six people left, and

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I don't think any of these dudes were

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Speaker 2: marriage potential, like they did. The cast need a really

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Speaker 2: bad job at finding men who were one ready, too

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Speaker 2: humble enough to not just want the fame of it

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Speaker 2: all but want the love from it, and then that

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Speaker 2: match Jin. And maybe that is because they didn't know

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Speaker 2: Jen was going to be the bachelor till the very end.

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Speaker 2: But I did not think this cast of men had

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Speaker 2: a lot of marriage winners in it.

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Speaker 3: I would say, yes, Ben, I completely agree with you

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Speaker 3: with these guys obviously were so not ready for marriage

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Speaker 3: and I, oh, gosh, it's so awful to say, but

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of them were there for Maria.

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Speaker 3: Don't you think.

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Speaker 2: It felt? It does feel like the kind of the

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Speaker 2: personalities of these men matched more of like the the

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Speaker 2: Maria type Jevin does. Yeah, definitely does. There are some

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Speaker 2: guys from Charity season that we did forget. Braiden obviously, Braiden.

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Speaker 3: Bowers, Bryden Okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: Branden obviously is a name that we probably should remember.

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Speaker 2: So you know. There was John Henry, uh from.

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Speaker 3: John Henry was cute but like and he played a

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Speaker 3: big role in Paradise. Yeah, but I don't like associate

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Speaker 3: him with the season.

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Speaker 2: But that's real. I mean, we're not wrong in saying

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Speaker 2: that this. You know, this cast I think will remember

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Speaker 2: a few more names from uh. I just think cher.

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Speaker 2: I think Jen did a really good job at helping

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Speaker 2: us know this cast. I think she asked really good questions.

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Speaker 2: I think she was very engaging, and I think she

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Speaker 2: spoke her mind, which allowed for really fun conversations to

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Speaker 2: watch about this season. So, with all that being said,

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Speaker 2: up to the final final episode, this was an enjoyable

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Speaker 2: season to watch. I was invested going into last Night

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Speaker 2: and incredibly curious about how last Night would go because

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Speaker 2: you and I did stay, which hasn't happened. I did

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Speaker 2: not stay completely unspoiled for Joey's season.

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Speaker 3: Well that's because you became friends with Joey. I was

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Speaker 3: pretty unspoiled for Joey's season and last night, well, let

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Speaker 3: me tell you this, I was pretty unspoiled up until

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Speaker 3: within the past week. I heard from a really good

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Speaker 3: friend who said that Devin had slid into her DMS,

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Speaker 3: and that sort of spoiled things for me a little bit.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know exactly how it was going to end,

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Speaker 3: but I knew that they weren't together.

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Speaker 2: Is this a good friend from the show, No, so

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Speaker 2: some random friend.

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Speaker 3: That you have exactly which makes it worse.

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Speaker 2: You're telling me that Devin is so hungry and active

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Speaker 2: that this comment, and we're going to get into it

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Speaker 2: a lot more later. But this comment from Jin that

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Speaker 2: he was following Maria, which I felt like, had more

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Speaker 2: to it than what was just being said on television,

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Speaker 2: because with all that happened, I don't think she wanted

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Speaker 2: to absolutely destroy him on national television, and I definitely

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Speaker 2: don't think he wanted to try to protect himself because

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Speaker 2: it would made him look terrible. But you're telling me

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Speaker 2: that comment from Jin where she says you followed Maria

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Speaker 2: obviously had more weight to it because he didn't just

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Speaker 2: follow Maria before the freaking finale could even come out.

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Speaker 2: He was messaging random humans, not for the show.

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure she said that she was like girls,

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Speaker 3: including Maria most notably. Yeah, it's just a guess. This

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Speaker 3: girl followed him just because she's been a fan of

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Speaker 3: him from the show, like this personality. And then yeah,

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Speaker 3: then he DMed.

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Speaker 2: Her so much to get into there. We're going to

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Speaker 2: cover that and so we're back, good friend, We're gonna

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Speaker 2: follow Uh, We're gonna talk about that and so much

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Speaker 2: more as we continue. But Let's start with the breakdown

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Speaker 2: of the episode. Let's start at the beginning. We see

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Speaker 2: the date and the time with Marcus. Marcus has always

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Speaker 2: been a front runner since night one. Obviously, Marcus and

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Speaker 2: Jen have had this connection, but the storyline going through

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Speaker 2: this season has been Marcus just can't get there. I

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Speaker 2: do think that this has been a secondary storyline to most.

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Speaker 2: It was a secondary storyline to the sam m sam

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Speaker 2: in and also to kind of even Jonathan going home unexpectedly.

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Speaker 2: But this week we really get to focus on Marcus

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Speaker 2: and where his feelings lie. His feelings as he communicates,

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Speaker 2: just aren't there with Jen. It surprises me that they

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Speaker 2: couldn't get there. I know, and there are rumors upon

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Speaker 2: rumors on Reddit about a lot of these contestants. Those

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Speaker 2: are things that have not yet been proven true. So

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Speaker 2: I have to look through the filter of what I

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Speaker 2: know from the show to make any type of assumption

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Speaker 2: or comment on this. So taking any of the stuff

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Speaker 2: that's going on in the outside of the show into perspective,

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Speaker 2: I appreciated Marcus's honesty. I do appreciate the fact that

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Speaker 2: he wasn't pulling a Devin and saying the right thing,

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Speaker 2: so that he ends up at the end and then

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Speaker 2: ultimately breaking her heart or her breaking his heart after

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Speaker 2: the fact. And so I think within the vacuum of

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Speaker 2: the show, Marcus's way of communicating with Jin and how

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Speaker 2: they say goodbye to each other was probably the most

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Speaker 2: respectful way you could do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, except for like he kind of wanted to stick around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just kind of like seeing how long

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Speaker 2: he could last until Yeah, he had to get down

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Speaker 2: on me.

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Speaker 3: He like was down to go on the date. She

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Speaker 3: made the right move and being like, no, we're not

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Speaker 3: going to do this. And you know what's interesting is that,

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Speaker 3: like she says that her feelings for Devin were stronger,

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Speaker 3: and we read that different the entire season. Do you

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Speaker 3: think that we were wrong or do you think that

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Speaker 3: there's like an edit in her head.

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Speaker 2: That her Are you asking me if I think her

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Speaker 2: feelings for Marcus or for Devin we're stronger than Marcus.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming that that is a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: revisionist history that she's telling herself. Yeah, she's looking back

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Speaker 2: and at the end going, you know what, it's always

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Speaker 2: been devon, which is a fair thought to have, especially

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Speaker 2: as you're sitting across from somebody kind of having this breakup.

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Speaker 2: You're like, it's fine because I have the person I've

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Speaker 2: always been more into. I don't think, and the show

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Speaker 2: makes it. It doesn't really come off on television. It's

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Speaker 2: really hard to have a clear favorite. I think it

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Speaker 2: has happened in some seasons, and I think that is

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Speaker 2: true love, and we've seen that true love last I

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Speaker 2: think it's really hard to have a clear favorite for

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Speaker 2: much longer than the last few days because you're so

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Speaker 2: you're compartmentalizing so much, and your brain has kind of

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Speaker 2: trained itself to have all these separate relationships. It's hard

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Speaker 2: to kind of compare and contrast until it really gets

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Speaker 2: down to two and you see where those two lie.

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Speaker 3: Okay, very interesting, I do think.

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Speaker 2: I do think there's some exceptions. I think the Jojo

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Speaker 2: Jordan things an exception. I think Dotten and Charity are

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Speaker 2: an exception. I'm assuming with Zach shell Cross the season

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Speaker 2: and Katie, I think that's an exception. I think there

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Speaker 2: are some exceptions. No, No, I don't think I put

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Speaker 2: Caitlin and Sean in that category.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, do you want to talk about the

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Speaker 3: family meet and greets real quick? Because just like overall,

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Speaker 3: the family didn't seem to be down with either. Dude,

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Speaker 3: I don't know that anybody would have gotten their approval though.

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Speaker 3: They just are not for this process.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely not for the process now, I'm assuming

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Speaker 2: after last night, but the family and I also know

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Speaker 2: the producer's influence on the family in those moments, and

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Speaker 2: so for Jin, she's been produced for about six months

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Speaker 2: of her life at this point. Right she was on

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Speaker 2: the Bachelorette or on the Bachelor. Now she's on the Bachelorette.

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Speaker 2: She kind of understands the game. That's an important thing

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Speaker 2: to know. She's understands the language they're using and how

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Speaker 2: they're trying to kind of like manipulate the situation or

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Speaker 2: manipulate her or speak into her. She's gotten it. She's

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Speaker 2: become a pro and she listens when she wants to listen,

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Speaker 2: and she doesn't when she doesn't want to. For a family,

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Speaker 2: it's a little different. You walk in blind, you're here

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Speaker 2: for a few hours, and you have four producers being

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Speaker 2: so nice to you and making sure that they're so

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Speaker 2: hospitable to you and that they are your best friend,

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Speaker 2: and they tell you how great your sister or daughter

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Speaker 2: is and how wonderful she's doing. And then they get

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Speaker 2: into the truth and they're like, but gosh, the guys are

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Speaker 2: just terrible. You know.

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Speaker 3: This is why I love that you were at that

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Speaker 3: part of the process multiple you know, and I wasn't.

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Speaker 3: So it's hilarious to hear this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can. But you've been around long enough

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Speaker 2: to know this is not an untrue statement that this

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Speaker 2: could be Definitely, this is definitely how it goes down.

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Speaker 2: And they start to just use these subtle the subtle

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Speaker 2: language that they believe is subtle. I think it's very

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Speaker 2: clear to see through it once you're in it long

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Speaker 2: enough to kind of distract from their actual own personal opinions.

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Speaker 2: So they come in and the show knows that Jenn's

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Speaker 2: family is going to have a hard time with this process.

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Speaker 2: They know they're going to be hesitant to give anybody

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Speaker 2: their approval, and so the show starts to play into

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Speaker 2: that and starts to really start to stab at that

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Speaker 2: and open up this feeling for them to being like, no,

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Speaker 2: I got to protect my sister, No, I got to

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Speaker 2: protect my daughter because these guys aren't ready for her.

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Speaker 3: But don't they make it seem like one person's better

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Speaker 3: than the.

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Speaker 2: Other most seasons. I think on this season they knew exactly.

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Speaker 2: I think this show had a really good idea of

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Speaker 2: how this is going to play out. I think they

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Speaker 2: they knew Devin, and they knew how he was probably

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Speaker 2: going to respond to the fame and to the attention

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Speaker 2: and to it. And the show knows, Yes, the show

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Speaker 2: knows these contestants really well. With Marcus at this point,

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Speaker 2: they already knew he was doubting, and they're like, this

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Speaker 2: is not a guy that has ever been that into Jen,

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Speaker 2: and so as a result, let's play that up. And

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Speaker 2: the show loves a new ending. I think that's something

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Speaker 2: we want to talk about later. The show loves a

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Speaker 2: new ending. They love something that's shocking that they can

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Speaker 2: market as something that's never happened before. The show loves it.

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Speaker 2: They always have and so I think in their mind

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Speaker 2: they had this idea that we know how this show

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Speaker 2: is now going to end. We know this new end,

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Speaker 2: and so this is what we can do to help

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Speaker 2: it out.

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Speaker 3: But you know what's really weird is when the teasers happened,

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Speaker 3: the beginning of the season was happening, and we were

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Speaker 3: talking about it here and calling, you know, our prediction

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Speaker 3: for the ending the first week of July, second of July.

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Speaker 3: They weren't. They weren't broken up, they were together, and

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Speaker 3: then why did all of us It's almost as if

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Speaker 3: it was like a self fulfilling prophecy, or that's probably

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Speaker 3: not the right term something.

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Speaker 2: So what you're saying is.

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Speaker 3: It's just like the whole tease was that she was

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Speaker 3: going to end up alone, right, and then she ends

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Speaker 3: up alone. But when we were all predicting that she

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Speaker 3: was going to end up alone, she actually wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what you're saying it it is that the

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Speaker 2: marketing has always pointed to the fact that Jin wasn't

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Speaker 2: going to be happy at the end, or that she

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Speaker 2: didn't find anybody at the end, and yet at that

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Speaker 2: time when the first show first started, she was with somebody,

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Speaker 2: So she was happy, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's certainly going through it.

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Speaker 2: My point to what I just said before was the

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Speaker 2: show knows these contestants well exactly. I think they always

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Speaker 2: knew that Devin wasn't going to make it through this one. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they knew this attention, They knew that he was seeking,

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Speaker 2: you know, this approval from the audience and as soon

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Speaker 2: as this became really exciting, and maybe his dms did

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Speaker 2: start to fill up with people being inquisitive, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: if you're not with Jen, I'm I'm here, He's they

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Speaker 2: the show knew that he would jump on it, because,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, the show and it's it's creepy. I

294
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Speaker 2: have many stories and I can't share him here. I

295
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: have many stories about how the show before you know,

296
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Speaker 2: when I'm even off of it, have said something about

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Speaker 2: somebody and it's ended up being true maybe a year later,

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Speaker 2: maybe two years later. The show knows these contestants so well.

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Speaker 2: It's creepy you.

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Speaker 3: Think that they had any hand in changing Devin's mind,

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Speaker 3: or that they just knew his personality well enough, because like, seriously,

302
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Speaker 3: they are just they're like psyched, They're like Joe like psychiatrists.

303
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Speaker 3: They know the brands so well.

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Speaker 2: I'll say this, I don't think the show has I

305
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 2: don't think their best outcome for this season was that

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Speaker 2: the two of them end up together. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: Devin has a producer that he's become really close with.

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Speaker 2: So how this works is when you get to the

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Speaker 2: end of the show, whoever whatever producer has connected most

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Speaker 2: with you throughout this season, ends up being kind of

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Speaker 2: your one on one producer for the last few weeks

312
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Speaker 2: of the show. So when you get down to the

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Speaker 2: final four, each four, each contestant ends up getting a

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Speaker 2: one producer for them. Instead of like five different producers

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Speaker 2: speaking into him, it's one uh, And so that producer

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Speaker 2: ends up becoming a really good friend. End up trusting

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Speaker 2: this producer, You end up caring about this producer, And

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Speaker 2: quite frankly, I do believe for the most part, the

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Speaker 2: producers care about you as well at some level, you know,

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Speaker 2: because their job and because if they didn't, it's a

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Speaker 2: really hard couple months of their life. And then this

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Speaker 2: producer kind of stays with you post show, especially if

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Speaker 2: you're devon. They're going to talk to you every day.

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Speaker 2: They're sending you a text, they're checking in on you,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Not in like a manipulative way, guys, in like a

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Speaker 3: we're informing you aby like how your life is going

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Speaker 3: to be over the next few weeks, Like this is

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Speaker 3: going to happen in the next episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they check in with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like you you're gonna have to come for this,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, you hear from them a lot.

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Speaker 2: But as Devin starts, as the producer starts to think

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Speaker 2: that Devin is looking outward to other things outside of Gin.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that producer was necessarily trying to uh

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Speaker 2: support him in coming back to Jen. I think they

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Speaker 2: would probably like, tell me more, Oh that makes sense, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know what. It's hard. Of course, you were doubting

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00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 2: your feelings going through this process. Remember when we talked

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Speaker 2: about it in Tahiti, how you were doubting your feelings. Yeah,

341
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Speaker 2: you know what. We probably should have been more honest

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Speaker 2: at that point. And then all of a sudden, he

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Speaker 2: has this person on their side, sent you know, coaching

344
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Speaker 2: them up. They ended up breaking up, and then that

345
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Speaker 2: producer calls the executive producers within the next five minutes

346
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Speaker 2: being like, hey, Devin and Jen, they're not together anymore.

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Speaker 2: And Devin's you know, out there messaging girls on Instagram,

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Speaker 2: and then the whole new storyline began. So that's a

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Speaker 2: long winded way of saying that I don't think the

350
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Speaker 2: show pushed them apart. I don't think the show also

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Speaker 2: tried to bring them back together, based on my experience,

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Speaker 2: because I know, in my experience as soon as somebody

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Speaker 2: in my relationship started doubting, the producers were very much

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Speaker 2: in favor of supporting that doubt.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, can we just skip to it the doubt

356
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Speaker 3: the after the final rowse because I need to know.

357
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Speaker 2: About your brother was great. Can we just say that.

358
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Speaker 2: I mean, I think he deserves a mention on this show.

359
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 2: I think he deserves a mention on the podcast. I mean,

360
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,439
Speaker 2: very protective, very intuitive, you know obviously for how the

361
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 2: ending worked. Big star, which we've seen multiple times. You know,

362
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Speaker 2: as these seasons have progressed that somebody in the family

363
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Speaker 2: really becomes a big star, he becomes a big star.

364
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 2: Last night he was all over social media. Uh and

365
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 2: uh and just I thought he was a really good

366
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Speaker 2: big brother in this process.

367
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally was.

368
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Speaker 2: Let's jump into it, Ashley. I'll let you take it away.

369
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Speaker 3: Okay, let's talk about you just said that. You know,

370
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Speaker 3: there were doubts. I don't even believe that their word

371
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Speaker 3: outs for Devna during the show, like, not at all. Actually, why,

372
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Speaker 3: I don't think he's that good of like you think

373
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Speaker 3: that he's that good of an actor.

374
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Speaker 2: I don't think he's acting. I don't I think acting

375
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 2: would be the word I would.

376
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 3: Say, you think that he was festering doubts in his

377
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 3: head before the proposal moment.

378
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess I don't know. I want

379
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 2: to hear why you don't think he was. I think

380
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: there is.

381
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,239
Speaker 3: Call me swindled, you guy, you know that, That's how

382
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 3: I always just fall for it.

383
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think what we saw from Devin

384
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,360
Speaker 2: was this passion and this fight. We kind of saw

385
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 2: it all season. I think it was easy to believe

386
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 2: that he was head over heels for Jin based on

387
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 2: the words he was saying and the actions he was giving.

388
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: It's hard for me. I don't think. Actually, I don't

389
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 2: think Devin truly believed he had doubts until the attention

390
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: started to come. I think that from in my opinion,

391
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Speaker 2: the tipping point for him existed when the attention from

392
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 2: the outside world became so strong that he started to go.

393
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Speaker 2: But there's this girl that looks great on Instagram. I'm

394
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 2: not that into Gin anymore, you know what. I've never

395
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 2: been that into Gin. I had all these questions about Jin.

396
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 2: I do think though, he can look back on moments

397
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 2: during the season where his interaction with Jim made him

398
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 2: go huh, maybe this isn't what I thought it was. However,

399
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: I do think at that proposal, and I do think

400
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 2: through the last couple of weeks he had zero doubts.

401
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: I do believe that that's what I mean. Yeah, he's

402
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 2: creating this story. I mean because it would it's mind

403
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: boggling to me. I guess, knowing this world and being

404
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 2: in this world and being the Bachelor at one point

405
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 2: in my life, it's mind boggling to me to think

406
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 2: that you could be getting down on one knee and asking,

407
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: you know, for this engagement if you had all these

408
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: doubts swirling in your head. It just feels so much easier.

409
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: And like we said, I would respect it so much

410
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 2: more if some of these contestants would just go, you

411
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 2: know what, like let's date afterwards. Because this whole thing

412
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: has too many questions to me right now, I'm not

413
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: making sense of it all. It's moving too fast. There's

414
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 2: been another person involved up until the very end. That

415
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 2: feels weird to me. That would be I would respect

416
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 2: that decision, and I would not be mad about watching

417
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 2: a season that ended that way.

418
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Speaker 3: Same.

419
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 2: I think, however, I do think that there is this

420
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: pressure and I'm not trying to give Devin out here

421
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: because I have a lot of things to say about Devon,

422
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: But I do think in this specific situation, there is

423
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: this pressure that exists when you're on the show to

424
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: end in a proposal, and sometimes that pressure can become

425
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: so much that it clouds rational thinking.

426
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Speaker 3: Do you think that he when he was gonna leave

427
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 3: last week because the pressure of like not being chosen

428
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 3: was getting to be too much and he just didn't

429
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 3: want to like not be chosen. Do you think that

430
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: was him trying to get out?

431
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: It could be.

432
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: In hindsight, I don't know.

433
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: I still think so.

434
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,719
Speaker 3: I'm kind of playing Devil's advocate here. I don't think

435
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: that was the situation, but it's interesting to think of it.

436
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: It could be. I do think it showed his lack

437
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: of desire to fight for this relationship.

438
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 3: I know.

439
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: I think that was definitely proven.

440
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 3: I just can't believe him. I can't believe I've been

441
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 3: I woke up in the middle of the night like

442
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: thinking that it was like a dream. I was like,

443
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: he did that. I can't believe he did that. I

444
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: feel as swindled by him as she she well, obviously

445
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 3: she feels more. But I feel like we all feel

446
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: like he pulled the wole over his eyes, pulled the

447
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 3: wole over our eyes because at the beginning of the season,

448
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 3: even from his bio, we were like suspect of this guy,

449
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 3: and then he made us love him and now and

450
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: now he just proves to be the guy that we

451
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: should have always been skeptical of.

452
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: See, it's intra for me because, as I said earlier,

453
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: none of these guys ever really did it for me

454
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 2: in terms of, Oh, I see them with her at

455
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: the end, and I'm really like supportive of Even if

456
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: they would have got engaged I and like stayed together,

457
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 2: I think I've already I would always been like yeah,

458
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: but like it's he's not that tight like he he

459
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 2: had a He had a really weird storyline this season.

460
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: The reason he was around long, like for as long

461
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,719
Speaker 2: as he was was because at first he was like

462
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: very intent on spending time with Jin and making sure

463
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: she knew he was into her. It's shocking to me

464
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 2: that he even made it past the fourth week because

465
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 2: it felt like to me, he was one of those

466
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: characters that we was gonna like try so hard and

467
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: be so thankful for being there. And kind of cause

468
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: this weird controversy inside the house and then she was

469
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: gonna let him go. It's it. I never expected him

470
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: to be there past the fourth fifth week.

471
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 3: That's why I thought it was kind of cool. Then

472
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 3: it was kind of cool to me to just see somebody,

473
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I can't Yes, it was the ultimate

474
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 3: underdog story. When he was like looking for the rings, yeah,

475
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,239
Speaker 3: for all the one down, I was like, this is

476
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 3: so cool, Like who would have ever thought.

477
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it could be the underdog story. I do

478
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 2: think it was ultimately an underdog story, and I think

479
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: with that in perspective, it gives me my opinion on

480
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: Devin at this point was he is the underdog. I

481
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: remember this scene early in the season that made Nick

482
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: that was so relatable where all the guys I think

483
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: it was during the strip tease date and he said,

484
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not like all these guys. They're all

485
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: like super strong and buff, and like I'm not and

486
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: I have hair and all this stuff, and it was like,

487
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: that's a like, that's actually a really cool moment and

488
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: a really funny fun thing for you to say, and

489
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: it's a relatable thing for you to say. I think

490
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: for up to that point, it was still his mindset

491
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: was I'm just lucky to be here. Jen is so amazing,

492
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 2: I'm so lucky to have her in my life. I'm

493
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: so interested in what is to come. I don't think

494
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: he's used to a lot of attention. I don't think

495
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: he's used to a lot of people being like Devin

496
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: hit me up. Yeah, And as soon as that started

497
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: to happen, his mindset changed. His ego got in the

498
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: way of the truth or of who he is as

499
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: a person. Do I hope he comes back to that someday.

500
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 2: I do. I hope that he comes back to this,

501
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: not like, hey, I'm so I'm down on myself all

502
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: the time type of person. But I do think he

503
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: comes back to the to some reality where he's like,

504
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: I'm you know what, I'm lucky to be here, still

505
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: like I'm fortunate to have a spot on this whole show.

506
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: And it changed as soon as attentionion started to come

507
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: to him. It's obvious, right, It's why he started to

508
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: reach out. It's why probably the clubbing existed, It's why

509
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: Jen was so upset about the club being because you

510
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: know what happens Ashley happens every season no matter who

511
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: it is. The contestants get together if you're with the

512
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: person or not, and people who have been eliminated from

513
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: the show still have most of the time, some like

514
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: anger towards the lead who eliminated them for whatever reason,

515
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 2: or they're just like they've moved on, and in their

516
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: mind they tell themselves this story that you know what,

517
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: I'm so much better off without him or her because

518
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: now I'm going clubbing and I get all this attention,

519
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: I get this bottle service, and I get like hit

520
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: up all the time, and like life's so much better

521
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: that I didn't end up with that person on the show.

522
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: And they honestly kind of just talk smack amongst each other.

523
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: That group chat talk smack against the lead. It's their

524
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: common enemy. It's the common thing that brings them together

525
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: where they're just you know, they laugh and make fun

526
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: of the lead. So Devin goes clubbing with other contestants

527
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: from the show. What do you think is happening That

528
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 2: Jen knows is happening. She knows she's not stupid by

529
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: any means, She's not stupid. She knows that Devin goes

530
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: clubbing with Jeremy and yes it's for climbing whatever. I

531
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: don't care. That part doesn't matter to me.

532
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 3: The club part was for client meaning, and.

533
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 2: She knows that Devin is getting infiltrated with kind of

534
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 2: not hate speech, but just this anger towards Jen. And

535
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: these guys are probably rallying around being like, Devin, look

536
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: at our life like kind of sucks you with gin right, like,

537
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: look at what we get to do?

538
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: Yo. I'm not in a man's brain, but I don't

539
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: understand why you'd want anything or anyone besides Jen in

540
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: that relationship.

541
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that he should have, I think at

542
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: some point in his life to look back and be like, gosh, dang,

543
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: I made the mistake. Like I had an amazing person

544
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: with me, that was committed to me, that wanted me,

545
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: that wanted to grow old with me, and I couldn't

546
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: get out of my own way to think, Hey, could

547
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: I settle down. I'm not saying set a lean. I'm

548
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: saying set down to take that life of the clubbing

549
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: and the friends and the attention out of it, totally

550
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: separate myself from it because I have this person that

551
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: I've dreamed of and that I've wanted I think when

552
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: Devin started this show, he dreamed of and wanted and

553
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: believed he wanted one person. I think the attention caused

554
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: him to think, goodness, gracious, life is so much better.

555
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: On the other.

556
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: Side, there's so many guys in bachelorette past that like

557
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: just look at them as examples as to like, this

558
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: plan that you have now or that you had the

559
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: before last night is just not going to pan out

560
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: the way that you think it's going to. People want

561
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: girls find it. Girls like we want you to be

562
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: with the lead. We want you to have a happy,

563
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: you know ending, and there's nothing attractive about what you did.

564
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: These girls are not going to want to be with you.

565
00:29:59,320 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: Now.

566
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 3: You might get a few dms that want to, but like,

567
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 3: you've just disgusted ninety nine percent of these girls, and

568
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: now you're gonna have You're gonna be walking around with

569
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: a big red flag. You have a that scarlet letter

570
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: on you now because of what you did to Jen.

571
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: Let's yeah, the truth is this, and we would tell

572
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: any contestant, And you're right, there's great examples of this

573
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: in the past. You can talk to people who've gone

574
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: through that season of life and came out of that

575
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: season of life and have gone goodness gracious, like that

576
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: was not a fun season. I hit my ultimate low

577
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: and now I had to rebuild and reheal and try

578
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: to figure out how to build something different for myself.

579
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: There's a lot of it.

580
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: You're never going to get away with it, you know

581
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like, you're gonna get caught.

582
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: You're gonna get caught.

583
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: Hence me saying I have a friend who's DMS. You

584
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 3: already slid into.

585
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a it's not a healthy path. It's

586
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: it's if I don't I'm not want to give advice,

587
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: but I would say this is a very clear, by

588
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: if history tells us anything, very clear path that does

589
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: not lead to joy fulfillment, love and hope. It leads

590
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: to a lot of like really lonely times. And that

591
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: comes from you know, experience, and so this is this

592
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: is a decision that feels best in the moment. It's

593
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: a decision made without understanding what this looks like in

594
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: two three years. I'm sure they'll get a lot of attention.

595
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll see on Instagram for the next four

596
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: or five months, these guys going to the clubs, going

597
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: to the bars, going to different events together, posting pictures

598
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: of each other, and I'm sure it's going to look

599
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: like the best time ever, But that time fades, and

600
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: what happens when it fades? You're left at the end

601
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: going could have done it so much better? So you

602
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: know what? To summarize all of this about Devin specifically,

603
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: I think if I was to talk to him on

604
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: this show show or talk to him on the phone,

605
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: I would say, I think you made a really bad

606
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: decision based on what felt best in the moment and

607
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: not based on what you've always dreamed, desired and cared about.

608
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm just saying appearance wise, if you were

609
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 3: caught like I don't think, I don't condone this idea.

610
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 3: But if you really were caught up with your ego

611
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: and wanting all the girls that were falling go on Instagram,

612
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: and you wanted to go clubbing in New York, and

613
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: you wanted to have all that like female attention, and

614
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: you wanted to play this right, you would stick with

615
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: Jen for quite some time, make everything look wonderful and romantic,

616
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: and then you guys could break up later.

617
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: Well, I mean give him credit for the authenticity least

618
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't any long dumb moves.

619
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: Lots of lots of dumb moves. But I'm sorry to

620
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: even say that out loud, but like all the moves

621
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: that he made were awful, and he deserves the consequences

622
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: of the move that he did make.

623
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: I actually felt like last night he didn't come off

624
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: as bad as what they potentially could have. I thought

625
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: Jin was respectful to not air all the dirty laundry

626
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: because I think she has enough receipts to probably like

627
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: make him look pretty bad right now. And I think

628
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: she held a lot in for the sake of, you know,

629
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: respect at any level. Yet Yeah, and it felt like

630
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff she was saying was not

631
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: exactly digging into the details of the situation because she

632
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: knew the details were really ugly. And I think he

633
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: kept bringing up like excuses, and I think every time

634
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: she looked at him, like do you really want to

635
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: make use that excuse? Because I have more information, you know,

636
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: that I could share, and you know I do.

637
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of kept his mouth shut a little

638
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 3: bit because he just kept saying I'm sorry, like I'm well,

639
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: like you know, I'm sorry. He never like was like

640
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: Jen but this you did this, It was not that

641
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: he did keep saying like it was my bad, it

642
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: was my bad.

643
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't say much. He knew he

644
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: didn't have much. He didn't have.

645
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 3: I watched it again, honestly because I was like, did

646
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 3: he explain why?

647
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: He is no explanation. His explanation would make him look

648
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: so much worse than what last night did. His explanation

649
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: has to be Yeah, I started getting these dms, I

650
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: got a lot of attention and yeah, you know what,

651
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: like I moved on and it would make him look worse.

652
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 2: So he didn't have He knows he didn't have any

653
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: way out of this, and I honestly think this night

654
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: last night was haunting him for a long time. I

655
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 2: like how he says he didn't have to be there.

656
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: Of course he does. It's contractual. There's no way he

657
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: wasn't showing up to that thing. Yeah, either le he

658
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: loses his entire net worth or he shows up to

659
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: a live event. So I love that he's like, I

660
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: didn't have to I just want to check in and

661
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: make sure you're okay. That's bs, we all know it.

662
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 3: But he's going to make sure you're Okay, so I

663
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 3: decided to do it right here live on stage.

664
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: He's been dreading this moment for a long time. I

665
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: think for him, he thinks he just had to get

666
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: through last night and then this all calms down.

667
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 3: She was very nice on her Instagram saying like, don't

668
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: spread hate it, like don't go to his profile and

669
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: say many things like you know, that's just not good

670
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 3: energy to put out there in the world.

671
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: Now, the truth is, Jen is gonna shine. She's going

672
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 2: to come off of this thing. We're going to talk

673
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,959
Speaker 2: about some of the stuff that's already been announced for her,

674
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: and then in the upcoming feature, She's gonna shine. She's

675
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: going to be a star. She's going to get all

676
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: the attention that all these guys have always wanted. And

677
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: they're going to slowly fade often too the distance and

678
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: go back to the normal lives, which is a great thing.

679
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 2: But I hope when they go back to their normal lives,

680
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: they can actually go back to a normal life and

681
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: not walk down the street like we know some have

682
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: that has a shirt that says, yes, I was on

683
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: the Bachelorette, you know, and make sure that everybody knows.

684
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: But at one point in my life. I was on

685
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: this random television show with thirty other people and chosen

686
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: and so you should give me a lot of attention

687
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: for it. I hope none of them do that. It's

688
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: a really bad way. It ends up not ending well.

689
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 3: But Ben, we have to talk about the proposal, her

690
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 3: decision to propose, and then their decision to error the

691
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 3: way that they did.

692
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 2: No, one hundred percent, let's talk about the the worst

693
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: treatment of a lead that's ever been done on the show.

694
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: In my opinion, wasn't there one other moment that we

695
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 3: felt was very similar a couple of seasons ago.

696
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: We've had many moments where the show has kind of

697
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 2: exploited the pains of the lead for their you know, gain,

698
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: or for the social media part. Night was in my opinion,

699
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: at least to my memory. My note was, this has

700
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,959
Speaker 2: to be the worst treatment of a lead of all time.

701
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: It felt unnecessary. One like unnecessary. That's like some of

702
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: the times when the lead has had to sit through

703
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: some awkward moments on national television. We can make an

704
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: argument for why it was necessary. Either it cleans up

705
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: a story, it solves a story, It fills some gaps,

706
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: it speaks to maybe some hate that they've been receiving,

707
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: and the general public maybe doesn't know why this last

708
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: night was unnecessary at every level. It could have been

709
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: done in a thousand I could come up right now

710
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: as somebody doesn't get paid to produce, nor should I

711
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: ever get paid to produce a thousand different ways that

712
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: still creates a story, that still creates buzz, but doesn't

713
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: put her through something completely cruel and unnecessary, because that's

714
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: all it was. The whole time.

715
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 3: This watching this, it felt like I was watching unreal.

716
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: Remember the Lifetime show that was like basically the you know,

717
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 3: the behind the scenes.

718
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: The dramatization of the Bachelor was what that was.

719
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 3: Yes, it felt like a parody of the Bachelor. And

720
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: then I was like, oh, it was actually unreal, Like

721
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: you could almost hear the producers in the back room

722
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 3: feeding lines to Jesse because Jesse also to me and

723
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Jesse, it sounded like he was reading for

724
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: a script.

725
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think we both like Jesse. We both feel

726
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 2: like he's done as well as he can filling in

727
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: and now kind of having the show as his There's

728
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 2: no issue with Jesse here. What I said last night

729
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: and my very uneducated opinion is Jesse's very busy right now.

730
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: It's college football season. Jesse is flying in and out

731
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: and mostly focusing on college football because that's now his

732
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: job for the next few months. It's always been his

733
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 2: j It felt like last night Joey or Jesse showed

734
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: up to the Live show to go through rehearsals, and

735
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: he heard about this thing happening, and he wasn't on

736
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: top of it enough to put a foot in the

737
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: ground and be like, I'm not doing it, because he

738
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: does have that ability he does. Instead, it felt like

739
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 2: he was just like, Okay, I gotta do that. Fine,

740
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 2: let's do it. Goes through the whole thing, everything happens,

741
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: and then he gets in that moment and he's like, crap,

742
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 2: I'm unprepared for this. I don't know what to say

743
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: during this moment. So I'm just gonna say the same

744
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: thing a couple times over to try to make it

745
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: seem like we care or that I care.

746
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: But like the caring seems so insincere from him. It

747
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: felt like he was getting words from the earpiece. Well

748
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: it maybe gets you think he was Basically I think

749
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: he was.

750
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: I think he was unprepared. I don't think he had

751
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: been involved in the last few months enough in this

752
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: show to know exactly the tone, or to know exactly

753
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: what was happening, or to hear how the updates were,

754
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: or to actually listen to how Jen was feeling. Jen

755
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: was sitting up there saying, I am crushed, like I

756
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 2: am like right now, I'm at my lowest point. I'm

757
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: bawling on national television. Jesse, do you ever think I

758
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 2: wanted to do this? Do you ever think I wanted

759
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: to wear this nice dress, put this makeup on, have

760
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: this incredible season, go through all this experience and sit

761
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 2: up here and cry for twenty minutes with you? No,

762
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: So please, please, Jesse, as a lead, as somebody had

763
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: sat with you and had dinner, as a friend of yours,

764
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 2: is somebody who's trusted you, because in this whole experience,

765
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: there's very little people to trust. Please, Jesse, don't put

766
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: me through this. I'm already sad, I'm already crushed. I

767
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: have nothing else to give you. And if Jesse wanted to,

768
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: as I said, if he was prepared for this, he

769
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: would have said, you know what, Jin, I don't care

770
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: what the show thinks. You walk off the stage here,

771
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: you go backstage. We're gonna watch a finale, and we're

772
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: gonna make Devon sit out here and watch it with us.

773
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: We're gonna make Devon sit on this couch alone, and

774
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a camera on the whole freaking time.

775
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: And Jen, you go back and you heal and maybe

776
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: if you're okay after the finale, come back out when

777
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: Devon's not here, and just like, say your last five

778
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: minutes to the audience of what this experience meant to you?

779
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, Yeah, his transition from you are a strong woman,

780
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: and you made your choices and you grew from this

781
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 3: and we are all in, all of you. Now it's

782
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: time to watch your oposal. Do you want to watch

783
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 3: your proposal? To prove to yourself how strong you are

784
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 3: and how you know what a what a woman you are?

785
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: Oh that I know I didn't have all the right

786
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 3: words there in remembering what he said, but it was

787
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: something like that, and just the transition from like, you

788
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 3: are so powerful, are you ready for us to play

789
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: this thing that like you never want to see? And

790
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 3: then I love the fact that she said, do I

791
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: really have a choice in this?

792
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love the respect and the build up for

793
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: you've made strong choices, you were powerful, you've done it

794
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: your way. And then for that moment, for heard be like,

795
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: I see this, you've said all these things about me.

796
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: And I think she laughed because I think in the

797
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: background she's like, I've I was prepared for this, I've

798
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: heard this was happening. I said I didn't want to

799
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: do it. I said I wouldn't come out here even

800
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: if you were going to do this. And now I

801
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: sit here on live television, live TV. Yeah, and I'm

802
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: going to tell you right now, I don't have a choice.

803
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: So you've respected my choices, you've praised me for making

804
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: good choices or making my choices, and now, in the

805
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 2: moment that matters the most, you're not giving me a choice.

806
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: It was subtle in the fact that like, I don't

807
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: know that, Like a lot of people thought it was

808
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 3: as big of a deal that she said that as

809
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 3: it was for us to hear. But it was a

810
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 3: big deal because there's moments where you get like caught

811
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 3: and you're just like I don't want to do this

812
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: and I can't believe this is about to happen. But

813
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: here we go, like this is the nail on the coffin,

814
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: and yeah, it would have been like why there are

815
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 3: so many things. First off, they should have just aired

816
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: the proposal the way that they normally would have aired

817
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: the proposal, right after, you know, they picked out the rings,

818
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 3: and then they could have sat down and it just

819
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been nearly as cruel. They did this weird

820
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: thing where they were gonna where he was like, you know,

821
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 3: we can't air this until after we talked to her.

822
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: Was all it was, was like, we're just going to

823
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 3: be extra cruel. Nobody in the audience saw that was

824
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 3: a good move or that was a move that was

825
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 3: going to make them feel more. We don't need to

826
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 3: feel more. We don't need to feel more devastated for her.

827
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: She doesn't need to feel more devastated for herself or embarrassed.

828
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: It's absolutely the weirdest. I don't know what was going

829
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 3: through their mind when they decided to do it like that.

830
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 3: It would have been fine and very typical honestly to

831
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 3: show a proposal and then to show the couple nots

832
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: together and the live portion.

833
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: One thing I think this moment does show us is

834
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 2: the realness of the show, and I think the audience members,

835
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: the people that view it need to understand and we

836
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: need to understand that there is a realness to this show,

837
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: that these are real people. They're not actors who are

838
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: experiencing real emotions. For Jin, in this moment, this was

839
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: a very real moment. She thought she had found her

840
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 2: forever love. She thought she had found a guy who

841
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 2: was going to stay with her and fight for her

842
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 2: and stick beside her through all of this mess. We're

843
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 2: seeing her emotion come out, and we're seeing her breakdown

844
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 2: and really have to relive a breakup that she still

845
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 2: sounded like she still has a lot of questions about.

846
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: And that was very short and so I think it

847
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 2: does show for us the realness of the show. For

848
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: some people, I don't think this show is ever real.

849
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: For Devin, I think it was made for a few weeks,

850
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 2: I guess, But I don't think since the proposal and

851
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: since you know, he got distracted and he started to

852
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: believe this story that wasn't you know, reality, and that

853
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: is not long lasting and that is not sustainable. I

854
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: think for the last few months, this show has been

855
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: a stepping stone for him to go to whatever he

856
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: thinks he's going to. For Jen, She's at her stepping stone.

857
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: She is a star, she was a lead, she made

858
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: it through it, she navigated the process, she stayed with

859
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: it the whole time, and now she sits there at

860
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 2: the end of this broken and I think for her

861
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: this has always been very real, and so I think

862
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: as a viewer we need to understand that her emotions

863
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: that we saw on that stage are her real emotions

864
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 2: that she felt through this process. I also think Jen

865
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: was probably told to keep ABC happy by doing this

866
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: rewatch of the proposal, because you know she's announced with

867
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars.

868
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: Is that this morning? Did that happen this morning?

869
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: I believe so. I've been in those situations before, right,

870
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: I was told I can't do Dancing with the Stars

871
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: because I wasn't doing everything to keep everybody happy. I

872
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 2: know that she is now, probably and she should be.

873
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 2: She's looking what's next, because this whole thing sucked. This

874
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,919
Speaker 2: whole thing then it ended like I wanted to. I've

875
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: now bought on national television, which I don't think anybody's

876
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,479
Speaker 2: judging her for or criticizing her for. But she's now saying, hey,

877
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: I'm moved on, and if I want something good to

878
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 2: come from this. Maybe it's Dancing with the Stars. They've

879
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: offered it to me. I know All'll have to do

880
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: is sit through this thing. Then I as much as

881
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: that sucks, and so I'm going to do it. So

882
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: I don't really have a choice, is what she's saying.

883
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 2: I want to transition though, because I do think this

884
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: was unnecessary and cruel, and I do think there was

885
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: a thousand other ways they could have done it. I

886
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 2: do think that last night's finale, the whole time I

887
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: watched this, it was unrecognizable to me. The show has

888
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: made a lot of mistakes. The show has done a

889
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: lot of things that have turned people off. Leads have

890
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: said things that have made people critical. Contestants have done

891
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: things that have made people upset. I think last night

892
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 2: and the way that they made their lead, their person

893
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: who has devoted so much time. And I know people

894
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: think that she made a million bucks from this thing.

895
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: She didn't. I can tell you the amount of money

896
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: that you make being the lead, at least in my day,

897
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: isn't really even an annual salary for most people. So

898
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: she's not getting paid fat cash to do this thing.

899
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 2: So don't ever think that's a part of the equation

900
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: last night was so like, it was so clear of

901
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: what the show wanted to get out of that moment,

902
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 2: and it felt so intentionally cruel to me and so

903
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: intentionally vindictive, almost towards Gin that it was unrecognizable to

904
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: me in all of my years of being a part

905
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 2: of the show.

906
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 3: That's why I'm saying it felt like unreal because it's unreal.

907
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: Was basically like everybody would say to me, is that

908
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 3: the show for real? Is that show for real? And

909
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh no, it is like it is

910
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: like The Bachelor, but like on crack, Like it is

911
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: like the most over the top version that they come

912
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 3: up with it. It is like it is a parody

913
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: of it. Yeah, that's why last night it was wild

914
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: to see something that seemed as if like it was

915
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 3: a It just seemed to be so over the top.

916
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: I just don't know why they would ever think that

917
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: was a good move, because no one is asking for

918
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 3: that drama. Nobody is asking to watch somebody be ruined.

919
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 3: I don't I don't understand. I really don't understand what

920
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 3: was going through their heads.

921
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 2: Let's dive into the unrecognizable part as we close out

922
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 2: this thought, you're confused on what's going on in their heads.

923
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: The producers heads. I think for them, they knew this

924
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: would be talked about. They knew we'd get on the

925
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 2: show today though almost famous podcast and talk about this moment.

926
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 2: They knew social media would keep this thing, you know,

927
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 2: trending and going because of last night's moment. There is

928
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: a level that I think is beneficial to the show,

929
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: even if it's bad press, because it gets people talking,

930
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 2: it keeps the brand in their minds, it keeps them

931
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: angry and upset. And I do think they think, I

932
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: don't know if it's true or not, that people will

933
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: tune in to the next season and to the next

934
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: thing because they heard about it last season. So I

935
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: do too. I'm not agreeing with that thought process. I

936
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of other ways they could have

937
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: done this, and I think they already had their storyline,

938
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: and I think people were already going to talk about

939
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 2: it with or without that moment. This whole thing goes

940
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: down a lot better if they don't have that moment

941
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: on camera.

942
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 3: Because then it makes it seem like it's a show

943
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 3: like you've been not you and I've been saying it

944
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 3: just seems to me to be like Transparent, in which

945
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: like there's so much tampering with the storyline and there's

946
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 3: so much manipulation going on behind the scenes that people

947
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 3: are just gonna be like, Oh, this show's fake. Anyway,

948
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 3: this show is that it's a fake show, and this

949
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: has made it seem like it was more of a

950
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 3: fake show because their puppet strings showed so much.

951
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: We know only one executive producer still left on the

952
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 2: show from our.

953
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 3: Time are personally, yeah, we personally.

954
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,959
Speaker 2: We personally only know one executive producer. I am going

955
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: to be shocked and he listens to this show. This

956
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: did not come from him, There's no way. And if

957
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: it did, like I would be so confused because this

958
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: is not This is not who he is. I know,

959
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 2: it's not who he wants to be, and it's not

960
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: what drives him to continue to produce this show.

961
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: This is the least him.

962
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 2: This had to come up from somewhere else. In fact,

963
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: it had to come from somebody that, like, we don't

964
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,919
Speaker 2: know because in all the people that we know, and hey,

965
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: I will never tell you that producing The Bachelor is

966
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: like the most value based job that their morals and

967
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: their character are intact the whole time. I will tell

968
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: you that manipulation happens, that there is always the storyline

969
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: that's being created. I will tell you that the people

970
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 2: that produce the show aren't terrible people. I like them

971
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 2: most of them, some of them, But being a producer

972
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 2: on the show is not the like, not the most

973
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 2: fulfilling job. However, the show has always had empathy, It's

974
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: always had a line it doesn't cross. It's always respected

975
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,959
Speaker 2: and treated the lead with the utmost respect and tried

976
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 2: to protect them if they could, and they have to

977
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: take away from the story being created. Last night was

978
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: unrecognizable to me because there's no way that anybody that

979
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: I know that worked on that show said, yes, this

980
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,919
Speaker 2: is the good idea, Yes this is what the show

981
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: is about. Yes this is what our audience wants. It

982
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 2: feels like they just took twenty steps back.

983
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and where was the new We'll say this, there

984
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 3: was a new staff, a new like t number, a

985
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 3: number of new like head haun Jos came in about

986
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 3: a year or so ago, and it left a lot

987
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 3: of the people that Ben and I were close to

988
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: during our time in the show either like it drove

989
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 3: them to want to not be there anymore. And I

990
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: feel like this moment is going to kind of like

991
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 3: clear out everybody else that you and I were friends with.

992
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had people out, you know, come off the

993
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: show as producers now and spoken you know, publicly about

994
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 2: why they left the show and what you know reason

995
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: they gave to leave the show, and all those reasonings

996
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 2: make sense. These people do have a line they don't cross.

997
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 2: They're not like these evil geniuses sitting in a room

998
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 2: being like, how are you going to destroy this person?

999
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: This person, this person. It's not what they They have

1000
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 2: families like they're they have families, they're married, they have friendships.

1001
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 2: They don't like love pain, and last night this moment,

1002
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: the only thing that came out of it was pain

1003
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: for gin and I think pain for the viewers to

1004
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: be like, how in the world am I gonna waste

1005
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: this much of my time watching somebody just hurt and

1006
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: suffer And then we're gonna make them suffer a little more.

1007
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 2: We're just gonna make it. We're gonna watch them in

1008
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: one of the most like brutal moments of their life

1009
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: to their memory, We're gonna make sure we focus in

1010
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: on it. There was no reason for it, completely unnecessary,

1011
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 2: something that I am very much against personally. I watched

1012
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: Gin last night as our first Asian bachelorette have the

1013
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: courage to say yes to this role and step out

1014
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: into that role and to do this role. I also

1015
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 2: saw her get incredibly taken Itajeo on her last five

1016
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: minutes of television, really for this show, and you know

1017
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: what they did for me. You know what they did

1018
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 2: for me in my last five minutes of television. What

1019
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: they gave me the stage and they said, Ben, say

1020
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: what you want to say. They gave me that space.

1021
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: So I got to stand up there and say, hey,

1022
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 2: I know this is my fifteen minutes of fame. I

1023
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 2: just appreciate the time and the you know, the courtesy

1024
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: of watching me and supporting me and doing this thing

1025
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 2: with me. You know how different that is than what

1026
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: they did the GIN so unnecessary. They could have done

1027
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 2: it so much better.

1028
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 3: World apart that again, not just keep bringing it back

1029
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: to the show unreal that hasn't been on the air

1030
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 3: for real, like at least five years. But the characters

1031
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: that show, they made it feel like the producers were

1032
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 3: truly soulless, like they had absolutely no character that they

1033
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: were evil people that wanted to make people destroy it

1034
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 3: and cry. And that's what it felt like last night.

1035
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 3: And that's just not who the people that the few

1036
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 3: people that we were that we know that remain there,

1037
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 3: just it doesn't feel a character for them. And I

1038
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 3: just know it wasn't wasn't them, No, it wasn't them.

1039
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: It's very very hard ending to a really great season.

1040
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 2: Jen did a great job as a bachelorette. It was

1041
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: an enjoyable season to watch for the most part.

1042
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 3: How absolutely weird was it also that they were like, well,

1043
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: as this girl cries on the couch next us, we're

1044
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 3: going to bring in the Golden Bachelorette. It just like,

1045
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 3: can we just like end the show, like, let's not

1046
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 3: change the tone now. It was so weird.

1047
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: It's very weird. Well, social media is talking about it

1048
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like many people that we that I follow

1049
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 2: are didn't. They didn't enjoy last night. I assuming the

1050
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 2: this is a brand new conflict the show's opened up

1051
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: for them, so themselves. They did to themselves. There is

1052
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 2: no other excuse other than the fact that they said

1053
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 2: yes to a decision last night that will ultimately I

1054
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: think hurts the show not only to its current viewers

1055
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 2: but potential viewers in the future. But I will say

1056
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: the same sentiments that Jesse said, Jin as our bachelor

1057
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 2: at you did great, Thanks for letting us watch you

1058
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 2: from almost from his podcast, whatever's next for you? We

1059
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: hope it's a lot better than what last night was.

1060
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: And we know and believe, just based on who you are,

1061
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 2: that the future is very bright. It's only up from

1062
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 2: here because the show made sure last night it only

1063
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: went down. So Jin, best of luck, continue to be you.

1064
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 2: That's been another season of The Bachelorette that we've broken down. Obviously,

1065
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 2: our thoughts are our own, they're not anybody else's, but

1066
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: they feel like they're the mast majority of viewership. So

1067
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 2: if you disagree with us, let us know. If you

1068
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: loved watching Jen cry on national television last night as

1069
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 2: she had to reminisce and remember her proposal moment, let

1070
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: us know that too. I'd love to hear why you

1071
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: think that. But until next time, as we enter into

1072
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: a short off season, until we get into The Golden Bachelorette,

1073
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: which we watched a little preview four last night.

1074
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 3: I've been Ben, I've been Ashley back guys.

1075
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio,

1076
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.