1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: Oh boy, it could happen here. That's the name of 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: the podcast, and I'm Robert Evans, the guy hosting the podcast. 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Who else is with me? Is it? Is it? Garrison? Hello, 4 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: Good morning, afternoon evening. Garrison Davis. Not yet a doctor 5 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Garrison Davis, not yet, soon soon to be Dr Garrison Davis. 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're going to pass the exam 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: that I know you're gonna have to pass in order 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: to get through this class. But yeah, a little teaser 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: for the future. Speaking of the future, this is a 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: podcast about the ways in which the future is going 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: to be real fucked up and ways in which maybe 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: we could try to make it less sucked up. Um. 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: And today we have on a guest, Mr Calvin Norman, 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: who posted a thread on our sub breddit with the 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: very simple, very unsettling title the woods are bad um 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: and Calvin, you want to enter you yourself, your credentials 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: and what you were trying to get across on that 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: threat because I found it very affecting. Yeah, thanks for ever. 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: So my name is, like you said, Calvin Norman, I 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: work in forestry. I've worked in forestry for a while now. 21 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: I used to be an industrial forester in the Great 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: Lakes region, so like Wisconsin, Michigan. Then I worked in 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: the Southeast. I did my masters down there, and now 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm in the mid Atlantic. So I've I've kind of 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: been around the eastern United States. I haven't gotten that 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: west yet, but and I'm a certified forest or candidate 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: certified forest I got a year left on that, so 28 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: I been around. I also do wildlife stuff. It's pretty fun. 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: And yeah, your your thread. What I found interesting that 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: I have a good friend who is in forestry or 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: was in't forestry at least and got their degree and that, 32 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: and we were we were at hunting in the Cascades 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: a little earlier or a little later last year. Um, 34 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: and there's this wonderful moment. We've been following a game 35 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: trail up like this Steve hill side and it was 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: kind of a clearing where we were a clear cut, 37 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: but there's deep brush all around. And we get to 38 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: the top of this thing, we look out and we 39 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: just see, you know, these these rolling mountain of the Cascades, 40 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: all covered in this the most this lush, beautiful greenery, 41 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: all these these pine trees and everything. And my friend 42 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: says to me, it's going to be totally different in 43 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: twenty years. Um, it's already a different forest than the 44 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: one I grew up with. And and that that is, 45 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: that is kind of the cliffs notes of what what 46 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: you're You're getting into a lot of detail here, and 47 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could just kind of like, yeah, 48 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: start on that, explain kind of what's actually happening in 49 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: our woods, or at least the woods that that you're 50 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: comfortable talking about here. It's a big yeah, yeah, this 51 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: is a big condent. And you have a pretty good 52 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: international base. And I can't speak for the Europeans or 53 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: the Canadians. There's a whole different ball game over there. 54 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: And tropical stuff is just white, yeah, really cool about 55 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: wild stuff. So mainly talked about the US, mainly Eastern 56 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: United States. So if you look at the eastern United States, 57 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: this is a forest that has never existed before in 58 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: the history of the United States. UM previews, you know, 59 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: prior to like nineteen twenty are forest was like depending 60 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: on the source of read, between twenty and chestnut with 61 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: other species mixed in there. And now we have a 62 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: mainly oak dominated forest and we lost all of our 63 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: chest into the chestnut blight. Um out Western You've got 64 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: a couple of other things going on, but fire suppression 65 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: is just changed the forest there. Uh, same here in 66 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: the East coast and into the Midwest. You know you 67 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: used to see a lot more fires going through. I mean, 68 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: so that was lightning strikes, but no doubt a lot 69 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: of it was you know, intentionally set by the first 70 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: nations and people before the people that we think of 71 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: as the first nations. And um, you know that has 72 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: mainly disappeared except for the southeast where fire has never 73 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: really stopped being at the ground, which is really cool. 74 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: But even their species, which is composition, has changed dramatically. Um. 75 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: A lot of what we're seeing as you know, changes 76 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: in human management. But there's also a number of invasive 77 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: species that have changed things. You know, like chestnut blight, 78 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: emerald ashbour asia, longhorn beetle is coming in. You know, 79 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: those are just the past the understory. And you know, 80 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: plants is a whole different ballgame. Um, it's it's it's 81 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: all not great. It's all not great. I was talking 82 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: with some colleagues at an agricultural show before I posted that, 83 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: and we were talking about how the woods were bad 84 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: and we very easily laid out a scenario where we 85 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: lost the most of our remaining dominantory species. It was 86 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: not at all hard to do. It took about two minutes. 87 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: So not great. Uh. And then the West coast things 88 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: aren't great either. And when you're talking about when you're 89 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: talking about losing these species and stuff like the chestnut light, 90 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: where is that coming from? How much of that is 91 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: sort of as a result of climate change? Like we're 92 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: having a lot of tree species have trouble here in 93 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: the West because of how much hotter the summers are 94 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: and how much drier things have gotten. So how much 95 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: how much of what you're saying where you are is 96 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: because there's been changes to the climate, And how much 97 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: of it is you know, I guess kind of like globalism, 98 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: like people bringing in pests and bringing in blights and 99 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: stuff from other areas and it spreads like wildfire. Well, 100 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: I think that we're just starting to see the beginning 101 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: of climate change, like driving species you know, up the mountain, 102 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: off the mountain out west and here you know, out 103 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: of certain regions, you know, as things are getting hotter 104 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: and drier or is you know, climbates are becoming more extreme. 105 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: You know, here in the Atlantic we had one of 106 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: the wettest years on record, I think it was like 107 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: five or seven, whereas in the Midwest they had droughts. 108 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: But before that we had two years of drought. So 109 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's more extreme, and that's that's just 110 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: starting to take part. But the extinctions and near extinctions 111 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: have been mainly due to non native pest um. And 112 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: that's just most of it right there. Um, just because 113 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: we haven't really seen the start of climate change, yeah, 114 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: impacting diseases. So like out west with the mountain pinebealle 115 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: you're seeing more generations of mountain pinebele comes through. I 116 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: was just doing a presentation for some folks in South 117 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: Dakota and something like a third of their total force 118 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: was impacted by mountain pine beetle. Jeez, And and what 119 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: is that like when you actually talk about this, these 120 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: beetles coming in. That's the kind of thing that even 121 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: as we've gotten more comfortable talking about sort of of 122 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: of the different kind of collapses spawned climate change, I 123 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: think that they we tend to imagine more spectacular things. 124 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: These giants, sweeping fires that burned through huge chunks of 125 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: states and these huge like environmental calamities. What is this, Like, 126 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 1: what happens when one of these beetles hits a forest? 127 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: One of these beetles species obviously not like a singular beetle, Like, 128 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: what is actually like how quick is the effect and 129 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: what kind of comes after that? Like, I I know, 130 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: there's sort of a shock wave. It's kind of like 131 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: a bomb going off. I'm interested in kind of tracing 132 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: the root of that explosion, if that makes sense. Yeah, 133 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 1: So it depends species. It species. Chestnut plate was really 134 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: fast and it just seems to have torn through the 135 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: chest instative range. So chest that went from Florida to 136 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: Maine and out west like Tennessee kind of area there um, 137 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 1: and it just you know, in like something like fifteen years, 138 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: the entire species gone. Emerald ash board has taken a 139 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: little bit longer. Got here in the eighties, started kind 140 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: of going off in the mid two thousands, and it's 141 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: killed a couple of billion trees. So when that hits 142 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: a small forest, you know, if it's a if it's 143 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: a pretty you know, beetle kills pretty fast. Like eyl dashboard, 144 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: it gets into your trees. It starts with one or 145 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: two and then within four or five years, it's it's 146 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: in most of them in the forest. And then with 147 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: emoral ashboard they're dead and five hemlock William delG it 148 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: is pretty similar. It'll just show up one day in 149 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a stand and then the hemlocks are dead within five 150 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: seven years. Uh. And you know, sometimes you know what's 151 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: going on, you know, because emil lashboard is very clear signs, 152 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: and other times you don't know what's going on because 153 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: the tree can't be so tall as all of a sudden, 154 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: trees are getting thinner and thinner and then they're dead, 155 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: or you have pests like um oak well and that 156 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: in that trees are dead, you know, in two months, 157 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: and then it spreads out like a circle. You know 158 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: it kind of exactly when you see like a bacteria 159 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: like growth medium with the bacteria spreading out, that's oak 160 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: spreads and it's just like trees are dead, you know, 161 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: two months and they spread out and out and out 162 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: and scary. Sometimes is there anything that can be I 163 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: mean it sounds like with with most of these cases, 164 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: like with what's happened with kind of like the chestnuts, 165 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: and it's it's too late for a lot of that 166 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: is there anything that can actually be done to stop this, 167 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: Like I know we have all these structures in place 168 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: to try to stop the spread of invasive species, but 169 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: like once they're in there, it kind of seems like 170 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: usually we're fucked. Yeah, ye that okay, Yeah. Once you 171 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: get past there's what's called the invasive species establishment curve, 172 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: so it's an escar, and once you get like right, 173 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: like once it starts taking up, it's like, oh, well, 174 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: we're done here, so let's let's start thinking about the future. 175 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: And as you lose more species, like what are we 176 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: doing here? Or if you're like you know, in the 177 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: case of the case of action, it's like this ash 178 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: is going into a swamp. I have nothing else that's 179 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: going to grow here, so now I just have an 180 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: open wetland, like I can grow any naive trees here. 181 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: Were done. So the biggest thing is preventioned like don't 182 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: don't bring invasive species in or non native species in. 183 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: I was talking to a lady a couple of weeks ago, 184 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: and she hasn't rolled or not. She has hemlock William 185 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: delj in a property, and she brought in a bio 186 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: control or she assumed was a bio control from Japan. 187 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: It's a beatle and yeah, in this case, it was 188 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: one that had been tested and failed because it doesn't 189 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: make it through the winter. But you know, stuff like 190 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: that's like just just don't do that, you know, I 191 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: cheat the thought there, but don't with some of these 192 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: species we have, you know, you know, like hem luckily adult, 193 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: we have pesticides that worked really well and that you 194 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: apply the order the tree and so it's like, all right, 195 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: I treated this tree. This tree is good for seven years. 196 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: Some of them, like Emerald, last boar, You're done. There's 197 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: just nothing you can do. So yeah, it's a prevention, prevention, 198 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: and then then you can quarantine. But then you know, 199 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: it's like where this county is done, so we're gonna 200 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: just try to make sure that only this county dies. Jeez, 201 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: you mentioned a bit earlier like thinking about the future, 202 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: what does that actually look like when when we hit 203 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: a situation as we have with a lot of these species, 204 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: were like, all right, well this ship's we ain't we 205 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: ain't stopping this. What is what like, what do people 206 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: like you do next? Like what is the next kind 207 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: of step for the forests or is it just sort 208 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: of a smoke them ale you got them kind of thing. Uh, 209 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: sometimes it's smoke them while you got them. So like 210 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: beach park disease is going through just roasting beach in 211 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the East Coast, it's going it's going to the Midwest 212 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: and so there it's kind of like, well, you know, 213 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: if it's in there and your beach or diet, take 214 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: them out and if they're not, don't. There's it's nine 215 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: percent fatal, but there's one percent that can make it. 216 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: So you know, like maybe we find that one percent 217 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: and lash nine fatal. But I've seen, you know, in 218 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: the past couple of years, I've seen two that made it. 219 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: So like if we don't cut them all, maybe someone surlive. 220 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: Theoretically we could then like clone or breed or whatever 221 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: the trees that live and and a few generations have 222 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: more of them. Um, if other ship doesn't happen. Yeah, 223 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: the chest that product has been going on for the 224 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: last hundred years, and it looks like I'm taking about 225 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: forty more. It's that's a controversial opinion. Some people say 226 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: it's a baschet of forty but you know years Oh 227 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: the chest that foundation really it's a really neat thing. 228 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: So there were some chestnuts that were found resistant in 229 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: some planet outside the range of chestnut blight, and so 230 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: the ideas where they slowly started back breeding. So they 231 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: crossed in Chinese chestnut, which is resistant to the blight, 232 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: which is native to China and East Asia, and so 233 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: they crossed them in with the remaining chestnut with the 234 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: hopes of you know, kind of eventually breeding out the 235 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: Chinese but just maintaining the American chestnut and just getting 236 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: that gene in there. And so they started that back 237 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: in like the thirties and forties when they realized what 238 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: was happening. Well, you know, today is two and we 239 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: are still without American chestnut in the forest. There are 240 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: some backbread versions that are more resistant, but they will 241 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: still get infected. I've been to a couple of chestnut 242 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: nurseries where they're doing experiments and it's it's sad because 243 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: they'll they'll get up and then they'll die. They'll get 244 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: up and they'll die, and it's like, oh, there's two. 245 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: There are two over there in the corner that made it, 246 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: and those get you onto the next one. But there 247 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: is some work out of New York, Suny in New 248 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: York where they altered a chestnut and they put in um. 249 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: They just they just changed the genes. So the version 250 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: of the genus makes chestnut blight resistant is in that 251 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: and that's getting approved by the E p A, F 252 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: d A and U S d A. Hopefully that gets approved. 253 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: If that gets approved, we get real, We get real 254 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: further along because the resistant trees are not the same 255 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: as the American chestnut. The resistant trees are more they're 256 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: shorter and more shrubby, and they don't fulfill the overstory 257 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: cannot be rolled in chestnut used to playing um. That's 258 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: that's best case scenario. Worst case scenarios. You're like um butternut, 259 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: which was driven to functional ex things at the same time, 260 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: and we're just nowhere on that produce, working on some stuff, 261 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: but it's nowhere. They're not in the woods now. How 262 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: how much of like because I tend to roll my 263 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: eyes pretty hard when we're talking in particular climate change 264 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: and people are like, well, I think that science is 265 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: going to save our asses from this one. We're gonna 266 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna develop some like miraculous carbon capture method like 267 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: at the last minute, we'll we'll we'll be able to 268 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: reverse everything and it'll be fine. I tend to roll 269 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: my eyes at that. But this and maybe I'm not 270 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: obviously I don't understand this that nearly the level you 271 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: do is this kind of a thing where if there's 272 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: hope for a lot of these species and a lot 273 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: of these biomas, it's going to be and stuff like 274 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: we figure out how to hack these trees to keep 275 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: them alive, and and like is that really kind of 276 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: where we are? I know some very good tree genesis 277 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: and tree breaders, but I don't think that they have 278 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: the capabilities of, you know, coming up with trees that 279 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: are resistant to all of the various fungi and bugs 280 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: that are out there. And even if they do, it's 281 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: you know, you have to get them out into the woods. 282 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: You have to plant million acres of forest. You've got 283 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: to get them out into the woods. You have to 284 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: have the nurseries to get them out. There's you know, 285 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: even if you were able to create trees that resistance 286 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: to all these pests, it would be impossible. So no, 287 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: the only the only answer is, uh, don't don't do 288 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: climate change. And to the carbon captured perspective, um, the 289 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: only machine that's going to capture of the amount of 290 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: carbon we need our trees. I do, I do forest 291 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: carbon stuff, which is a whole different episode. I want to. 292 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm there. I'm extremely interested in that because obviously, 293 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: like we've we've been supported by a couple of companies who, like, 294 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: one of the things they do to try to be 295 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: nice is they'll they'll plant trees and stuff, which is 296 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: not useless. But also a lot of people think that 297 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: that's what rebuilding a forest is, and like, no, forests 298 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: are a huge part of the problem with why the 299 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: West is so flammable. As we chopped down all these 300 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: trees and we grew back just the trees um to 301 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: chop them down again, and that turns out to not 302 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: be resilient at all to anything, because trees do not 303 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: live on their own ever. Yeah, that's why it's a forest. 304 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: It's not just exactly right, Yeah, no, it's yeah, that's 305 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: that's a planting. There's not the infrastructure to plant. Our 306 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: way of climate change is not the land. It's just impossible. 307 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: And so even even if even if there were the 308 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: infrastructure in the lane, that we don't have the time, 309 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: because you know, trees take time to grow, they work 310 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: at a different time scale than humans do, even your 311 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: your shortest lived trees sixty eight years. Yeah, and it 312 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: is one of those things where I mean, we we 313 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: have this is what we taught. We kind of started 314 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: this new season which is forever with which is that 315 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: like there's no there's nothing we can do that will 316 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: stop us from continuing to face worse and worse because 317 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: because like consequences of climate change, because the carbon is 318 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: already been admitted, right, you can't just pull it out 319 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: warming as even if we were to like make very 320 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: revolutionary changes tomorrow, there's still some degree to which it's 321 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: going to get worse. Um. But when it comes to 322 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: like within your field, what like carbon capture using trees 323 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: and stuff, can you talk to us about like what 324 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: that actually looks like as opposed to sort of the 325 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: will plant a tree for every dollar you spend kind 326 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: of thing. Um? So yeah, I actually I actually can. 327 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: It's I do a lot of my work about forest 328 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: carbon stuff. So yeah, Basically the idea is to make 329 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: sure you have the best way to get carbon c 330 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: equestration of the force is to have a healthy, functioning forest. 331 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: And that's you know, kind of where these pests and 332 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: climate change are interfering with that. And so you know, 333 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: to maintain a healthy functioning force on the East Coast. 334 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: You know, some of these you need to have fire, 335 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: some of them not. Some of them are too wet 336 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: to burn. Uh. And then you know, harvesting needs to 337 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: take place in some of these. Some of these don't 338 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: need to be harvested. Again, we're talking, you know, millions 339 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: of acres of forest here, so we're gonna be incredibly 340 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: broad and we've got to keep invasives out. You need 341 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: to keep force pest to a minimum, and then make 342 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: sure that you're managing the forest, you know, as best 343 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: as it can be managed. And I say managed, this 344 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: is not something new. Humans have been on the East 345 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: Coast since you know, it depends on the artifacts you 346 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: want to look at and what archaeologists you want to trust. 347 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: But like twenty five to twenty thousand years ago, and 348 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: the last glaciers left the East Coast eighteen thousand years ago, 349 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: so we had people here before the glaciers were gone. 350 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: So these forests have never not had humans hands on 351 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: them and never not been touched to manage by humans. Um, 352 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: And you know, we gotta make sure we're doing the 353 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: best we can you know some of that means that 354 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 1: we're managing force with what's best for the you know, 355 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: that means managing force for what's best with the force 356 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: in mind, not with best what's best for the end 357 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: of the quarter, what's best for your bank account. That's 358 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: hard to do because force are getting more and more 359 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: expensive to manage and to you know, manage to say 360 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: able here in the East Coast, we gotta do a 361 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: lot of fencing. We gotta keep deer out of force 362 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: because their populations are so high, it's just ridiculously high, 363 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: and they've never got to come back down. You know, 364 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: we have to spray invasive species, we have to pull 365 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: invasive species. You gotta go through and you've gotta make sure, 366 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, you're you're preventing all those kinds of stuff. 367 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: And so we can take you know, you can if 368 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: you do a good shelter, would you can like make 369 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: four dollars out of it and then you could put 370 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: all that money back into growing your next generation of force. 371 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: So forces is really going from a profit making venture 372 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: on a lot of cases to like you're barely making 373 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: money or you're you're like breaking even or losing money. 374 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: It's it's no longer you know, if you really want 375 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: to do it, great, You're not always making money, which 376 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: is hard for people to get their head around. Yeah. 377 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: I mean it's the kind of thing that in a 378 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: reasonable world, huge amounts of money would be diverted to 379 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: from other things. Like I don't know, Um, I feel 380 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: like you guys could do a lot with one f 381 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: thirty five worth of cash. I feel like that would 382 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: solve almost all of our problems. Yeah, because the problems 383 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: that you see in force, we don't cost a lot 384 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: to fix, but it it costs a lot for a 385 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: forced owner, be that you know, an agency or person, 386 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: it costs a lot. Yeah. It's like all of the 387 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: issues around climate change kind of all circle around, like 388 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: growth based economics and a lot of the like nothing 389 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: has a shared cause, but they all have this similar 390 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: aspect to them where yeah, every every part of them 391 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: gets worse by the extreme focus on economic growth at 392 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: all costs and that suffers that that that makes everything 393 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: and everyone suffer. So, you know, it would be nice 394 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: if since we have a government, it would be nice 395 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: if they do, you know, give more funding towards uh, 396 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: stuff like this type of fourth management, which I know 397 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: they do some, but you know, a fraction of it 398 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: compared to what they give to like the Pentagon or 399 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I mean even big you know, 400 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: forestries technically agriculture, but even like you know, like corn 401 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: and like grow agriculture, it's a lot. Yeah, they have 402 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: they corners massive subsidies compared to compared to everything else. Yeah, 403 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: like the NRCS, the Natural Resources Conservation Service, they do 404 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: a lot with you know, farm agriculture, and you know, 405 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: they it's very difficult for forest ollers to get that 406 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: kind of money into forests. If we could get you know, 407 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: that money, it would be a game changer. But we're 408 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: not there. Uh, there is some change being made in 409 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: the administration. But yeah, that's like stuff and that doesn't help, 410 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: doesn't help today. It doesn't still unpassed today. Yeah, you 411 00:19:51,680 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: can't unkill trees. Yeah, I guess is there anything that 412 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: you're optimistic about within your field right now? If you 413 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: I think that would be handy both in terms of 414 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: like is there any sort of is there a light 415 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel um, Because I'll admit, like, 416 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: when I think about not having the forests that's pretty 417 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: much the most black pilling thing I can imagine, like 418 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: for myself, Like, that's the that's the thing that I 419 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: have trouble coping with emotionally more than anything else. There's 420 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: lots of horrible things about what's coming, but that's the 421 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: one that like really scares me the most. Yeah, I 422 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna lose forests as a thing. They're 423 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: just where to become. You know, if without things we've done, 424 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: then become less, they're gonna be fewer of them, and 425 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: they're gonna become much less diversive functioning. You know for 426 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: a lot of these you know, invasive species, be they plants, 427 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: you know, especially invasive plants. We have a lot of 428 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: we don't they control them. I was just writing a 429 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: thing about controlling wavy basket wavy leaf basket grass. It's 430 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: a new invasive species to my area. It's highly controllable 431 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: and we know how to do it. It's just again 432 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: a question of people, you know, getting out there and 433 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: money to do it. You know, if we have the 434 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: people of the money, we can solve that problem. Oh 435 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: also we stop you know bringing that in their bat 436 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: even better, we you know, actually took you know I 437 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: PM right now, IPM. But quarantine and pest management seriously, 438 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: and you know, people like stopped throwing you know they 439 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: look like plant out of the park just because like 440 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: I don't want to kill it, Like let's let it 441 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: be free. Don't do that. Goldfish, don't don't throw them 442 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: in the lake. That's why you have huge gold fish 443 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: coming out of like Florida. Don't. Don't just cut pets 444 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: loose and stuff like that. And if we can get 445 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: a lot of that under control, would be in a 446 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: lot better place. Again, I don't think they're forced to 447 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: disappearing in the future unmanaged. I think they just become 448 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: fewer and less diverse and less funky, and then you 449 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: lose spaces species based on them, like birds, you know, wildlife, 450 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And also I mean one 451 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: of the things that also they have to become less accessible, 452 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: both because there will be less of the man um 453 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: as things get more fragile, Like how else do you 454 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: keep some of these invasive species out but keeping people out, 455 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: which is I think a bad move for a lot 456 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: of reasons. But I don't know. I also don't know, 457 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: like is it possible to have a global society where 458 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: there is not just trade but the movement of people 459 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: on a wide scale and not have this kind of 460 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: ship crossing. Right. Like, that's when I think about as 461 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: as someone who's more or less an anarchist. When I 462 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: think about the only things that a border should exist 463 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: to do, it's it's keep stuff like that out. But 464 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: I just I don't know how possible that is, Like 465 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff is I mean, is this 466 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that's just spread by carelessness because 467 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: it kind of seems like it can be spread to 468 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: by people who think they're taking care Yeah, and both 469 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: is the answer. There's some very good research out there 470 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: about the relatedness between global trade and you know, invasive species. 471 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: But that also you look at like colonialism and colonial societies. 472 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: There were these things called introductory societies who loung get 473 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: the name wrong, but basically they are clubs. It's like, 474 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: all right, I would like clubs of people like I 475 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: would like to see this new place that I live 476 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: in like the old place. Like the European starling was 477 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: introduced in New York because you know, one guy wanted 478 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: to see all of the birds of Shakespeare in America. 479 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: Christ Oh, I get even better for one for you. 480 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: The moth formerly known as gypsy moth as se as, 481 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that word um is now found in 482 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: America because of this one guy. I'll put the name 483 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: in the chat for you so you can say it, 484 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: because I know how much you love saying French names 485 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: of the most. Here comes the wave of comb it's 486 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: a better anti French racism. Oh no, no, yeah, oh, 487 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't matter. We still get Okay, 488 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: well this nobody does about my Italian accent. It's just 489 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: the French. It's once again the Italians deserve it as well. 490 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: They tell us about at end. Yeah. So so this guy, 491 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: he was a French scientist who he left France. He 492 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: came to the US for a little while. He had 493 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: got Massachusetts. He was also also an amateur entomologist, and 494 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: he was like, oh, you know what I think American 495 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: needs is I think they need a silk industry. Now 496 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: they have a negative silk moth. It doesn't produce good silk, 497 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't breed fast. So he brought in the matric. 498 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: I gotta do the scientific name because we changed the 499 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: name on it because the common name is a slur. 500 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: So we're not doing so la matria disparo. So he 501 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: brought this this moth in from Europe. Uh, and he 502 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: started trying to breathe these two moths, which are not 503 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: related at all. It didn't work, obviously, and then he 504 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, he went he went off 505 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: to be an astronomer, and he just let these moths 506 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: go in his backyard and he didn't tell anyone they 507 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: were there. And then all of a sudden these things 508 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: escape and now they're killing trees, you know, across the 509 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: eastern United States, and they're in Washington, Oregon. I think 510 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: they're in DC a little bit too great. So, yeah, 511 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's such a good parable, like a 512 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: parallel to the invasive species that is French people. That 513 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: really does just tie up all all aspects of that amazing. 514 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: It makes me think a lot everything you're saying about 515 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,479 Speaker 1: kut Zoo, which which is in the I've heard some 516 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: people say they're getting a handle on it. I don't 517 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: know how to evaluate that at the moment, but when 518 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 1: I was last living down there, it was just like 519 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: devouring the entire southeast. Yeah, you can handle it again 520 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: if you want to spray it. You can. You can 521 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: get what's called chew groove, so a bunch of goats 522 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: you can get a handle on it. But again that's 523 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: money and effort. So it's just a question. So you 524 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: do get delicious, delicious goat made? Oh my gosh, I 525 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: tell you what. The people who do go invasive management 526 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: they haven't made. Would they dont goats out to people? 527 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: They get paid for the goats and they also get 528 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: their goats fence, or would they slaughter them? They even 529 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: pay that, you know, that's a good business model as 530 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: someone with a couple of goats. That does sound like 531 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: the dream. Um yeah, God, they don't work on all 532 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: the invasive species I do as they probably don't eat 533 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: those beetles huh No. No, they also like plants with 534 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: thorns on them either, and it's very few goats can 535 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: handle an entire French person either. So yeah, we can't. 536 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: We can't trust the goats to solve all these problems 537 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: for us. It is nice that they're helping. Um, I 538 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: don't know, so I I try to. Are there things 539 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: either in terms of like it acts people can take 540 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: or probably more more realistically, organizations people could support that 541 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: you think are actually helping try to stop as much 542 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: of the woods from going bad as fast or reverse 543 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: the some of the stuff we've been talking about today, 544 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: like how can we try to have some some room 545 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: for people to do something if if there is anything 546 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: people can do other than check your fucking shoes for 547 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: beetles when you come back from wherever, burn all of 548 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: your clothing anytime you leave the state. Okay, that's that's 549 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: a good start. That's a really good start. Not even 550 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,239 Speaker 1: to say sometimes it's the county stop. When you go 551 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: on a road trip, you stop your car at the 552 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: county line and you roll it off of a cliff 553 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: with tanner righte and just let it burn. But don't 554 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: don't push out of the woods. We've seen that. Not 555 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: into the woods. No, into the ocean where everything's fine. Yeah, 556 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: they say, that's what they say about the ocean. Great. 557 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: I tell I tell people I work between the farm 558 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: field and the stream. I don't do stream or water 559 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: stuff because there's chemistry in there, so I don't know 560 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: what happens over there. That's fine. I assume everything is 561 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: great there. It does seem to be going fine. Um. 562 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: I think the best thing that you could do is 563 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: in individuals is don't cut random stuff loose. Learn the 564 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: plants of your area. Yeah, learn what's around you and 565 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: what should be there. And like when you see something 566 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: that shouldn't be there and you know it's in invasive, 567 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: remove it. We're legally possible, obviously, don't go like someone's 568 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: like arboretum and it's like like pulled plants out. That'd 569 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: be real bad, burned down small farms wherever you find. Yeah, 570 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: oh man, the egg people will not be happy about that. 571 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I'm not gonna say anything. Um 572 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: So I think you know, learned plants trees is neat um. 573 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: And then if you um, you know, think of if 574 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: you're thinking about like, you know, how can you help 575 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: manage force? You know, if you lots of people either 576 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: own forests or people who owned forest and you know, 577 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: encourage them to get a force management plan or land 578 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: management plan and get that. And then also if you 579 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: got a lawn, rip your lawn out again where possible 580 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: and use native plants. I do. I do some you know, 581 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: some lawn change stuff. And it's just frustrating the amount 582 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: of lawns out there. It's like, you know, one of 583 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: these people, one of these reasons we're losing so many 584 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, birds, and we have fewer birds and bird 585 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: species because like they can't eat grass. These things eat 586 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: fruits and insects and seeds which you don't get in grass. 587 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: So you know, if you don't own a forest, that's fine, 588 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: and I'm i I'm a huge advocate of that. I 589 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: try to be on the show and people, again, we 590 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: always get this thing where there are people who will 591 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: critique when we talk about some of these small scale solutions. 592 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: Is like, oh, you know, turning your turning your lawn 593 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: into a a permac culture garden with local species isn't 594 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: going to like produce enough food to feed your families. Like, no, 595 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: it's not about that. If you could get a couple 596 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: of thousand people to do it, and they convince another 597 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: couple and like so on and so on and so on, 598 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: then suddenly, if you're increasing significantly the amount of carbon 599 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: sequestered by that lawn and you're also making a better 600 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: habitat for birds and whatnot, that that scales. It is 601 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: a thing that scales. If we got a significant number 602 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: of people with lawns to replace them with something like 603 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about kill kill, that grass that almost certainly 604 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: isn't fucking native to your area. Plant stuff that is, 605 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: and and and try to reintegrate at least your lawn 606 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: back into the local ecology. If you got a million 607 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: Americans to do a version of that, you that's not 608 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 1: an insignificant thing. Um. Yeah, And it is something that 609 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: you can do in a lot of states. There's programs 610 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: to support it. In my state, there's a program specifically 611 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: for like changing lawns over and that program is backed up. 612 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: They are out of money until they spent it all already. 613 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: There's definitely interest there. Let you sell it to whoever, whoever. 614 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: Anyone gets it if they want it, it just goes 615 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: up on Craigslist, all right, Yeah, put it on Craigslist, 616 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: give it to the highest bidder. Um. The other thing 617 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: you can do is go outside, like support your local 618 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: land management agency. Most of these, like forest Service and 619 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: park Service, they depend on money spent by users to 620 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: go spend money at the forest. The only thing people 621 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: can do your fucking boots first though, Oh yeah, definitely that. 622 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: And don't don't bring shit in. Don't don't bring your 623 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: like weird thing in, like your weird plan, because you 624 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: don't want to kill it your entirely seed based diet. Yeah, 625 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: if you don't, If you hunt, great, that supports conservation. 626 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: If you don't want to hunt, you can still buy 627 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: duck stamps and these other things. That's support wildlife management. 628 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: In the US, wildlife is funded by the users, So 629 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: those people who buy guns and AMMO, buy arch your equipment, 630 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: and who buy hunting licenses. So if you want to 631 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: support wildlife, the best thing you can do is buy 632 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: a hunting license, even if you don't hunt. That's it's 633 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: kind of counterintuitive, but it's the core of the North 634 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: American mode of wildlife. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point, 635 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: and it is one of the It's also one of 636 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: those areas when we talk about ways in which theoretically 637 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: there's room to build in roads between left and right 638 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: in this country, conservation and hunting should be one right, 639 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: and there are hunters on the right who are actually 640 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: talking a pretty good, like reasonably about conservation, Like it 641 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: is an area of shared interest. Everybody likes wild places, 642 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: so just quote unquote wild We just talked about how 643 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: none of them are actually wild. They've all existed with 644 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: human beings for forever. But like, yeah, we like we 645 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: like the outdoors, Yes, the outdoors. Yeah. Well and what 646 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, people ask me like, so I hunt? I 647 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: have Micross clothes right over there. Who sweet crossbow? Yeah yeah, 648 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to get a gun. I have been 649 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: wanted to get a crossbow pilled for a while now. 650 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I wouldn't mind getting crossbow killed myself. Yeah, 651 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: shoulder holster for a crossbow. There we go. Oh yeah 652 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: that's great. Yeah. No, this is not a super expensive one, 653 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: but it's pretty much a rifle. Yeah, I mean ballistically 654 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: at the ranges who use them, there's not any meaningful 655 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: difference really. Yeah. And if you're a person who you 656 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: know doesn't like guns, it doesn't trust yourself around him. Uh, 657 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: they're very safe. So yeah, get get you one of 658 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: those if you want. It's a fun time cross I 659 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: also like it a lot more than my uh my 660 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: guns because it doesn't yet coil. But that's enough about that. 661 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: Well that's great. Um, is there anything else you wanted 662 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: to get into Calvin before we kind of roll out today? Uh? 663 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: You touched on forest carbon stuff that's a whole man. Yeah, 664 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff on that that's a whole other world. 665 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: I am interested in talking more about that, but perhaps 666 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: we should do have a dedicated entire thing. I mean, 667 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: we should definitely dedicate an entire thing that. It's an 668 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: incredibly important subject UM and I think there's a lot 669 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: to say about how different um indigenous groups have been. 670 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: Like up in the Northwest in particular, we have a 671 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: lot of um kind of tribal efforts at stuff like 672 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: not just with the with the forest, but also with 673 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: like the coastline and whatnot in rebuilding certain populations along 674 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: the coast in the Midwest. When i'mer does a great 675 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: job with forest management, I'm actually doing a webinar thing 676 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: about one of our forest pesting we're having then come 677 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: talk about their management. Well, we invited them. I'm not 678 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: actually sure if they're going to do it yet, but 679 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: the practice we use is based on what they use 680 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: it there. So yeah, it's it's really cool what various 681 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: first nations do. Yeah, I just want to plug trees. Yeah, 682 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: my favorite type of tree probably the redwood. Used to 683 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: live in Arcade to go running in them every day. Um, 684 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 1: I know that's kind of a cliche answer, what's your 685 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: what's your favorite tree? This is one behind me here, 686 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: No one can see my background. It's white oak. You 687 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: can't make white oaks. So yeah, yeah, that is an 688 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: important tree. Forest products are like one of the only 689 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,439 Speaker 1: things that supports supports forest management. So it supports forest 690 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: so you don't be afraid to use, you know, sustainably 691 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: managed wood and wood products. Find capitalism and drink a 692 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: shipload of bourbon. Always a good call. Really, Um? Alright, well, 693 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: Calvin Norman, any any less pluggable to plug um plants? 694 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: If you want to learn plants, that's great. You want 695 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: to learn about what's going on your native you know 696 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: your areas around you. There's lots of groups that do that. 697 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: Your local extension service helps you out with a lot 698 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: that most of their stuff is free. So plug that. Yeah, 699 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: go outside and plug that. I don't do twitter good. Yeah, alright, 700 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: well go outside, hugg a tree. Calvin Norman, thank you 701 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: again so much for coming on. Um. If you want 702 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: to see Calvin's original thread, just type in the woods 703 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: are bad, uh and it could happen here, read it, 704 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: or just go to the it could happen here, read 705 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: it and scroll down a bit you'll find it. Um. 706 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for us today until tomorrow. Go 707 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: out into the woods. Who go out into the woods, 708 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: but wash your fucking boots first. It could Happen Here 709 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 710 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media 711 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart 712 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 713 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 714 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks 715 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: for listening.