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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Evan Nobi Williams and I'm Michael Barr, and

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Speaker 1: this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: explored the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: Scott is off for Columbus Day, so we aren't going

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Speaker 1: to run through today's top stories without him. To missues, Scott.

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Speaker 1: They really do the beginning with a look at the

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Speaker 1: x f L. Evan, the season kicks off in February,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like tickets are affordable. We can get

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Speaker 1: in this thing and get some goal line seats, and

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Speaker 1: so are the players salaries along with that. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: two kind of pretty big pieces of news that came

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Speaker 1: out of the XFL last last week, one of which being,

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Speaker 1: as you said, all the eight teams announced their season

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Speaker 1: ticket packages and they are clearly trying to go with

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Speaker 1: an affordable model. I think every team has a base

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Speaker 1: cheapest season tickets. These are five five home games. Every

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Speaker 1: team is one. That's a total of a hundred dollars,

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Speaker 1: except for the New York team, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a d But either way, you're looking at per game

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Speaker 1: for your season ticket package. That is a far cross

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Speaker 1: from what the NFL is right now. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: looking at some of the names of the eight XFL teams.

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Speaker 1: How can you not like some of these The Houston Roughnecks.

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Speaker 1: The Roughnecks have a great logo, too good. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you know they're trying to take, you know, the XFL

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Speaker 1: a very different approach than the a F. You know,

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Speaker 1: the football league that folded earlier this year after just

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks of games. Uh. The a a

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Speaker 1: F was in a number of cities Memphis, Birmingham that

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Speaker 1: don't have NFL franchises. The XFL, as Oliver Luck you know,

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Speaker 1: explained to us last year, they're taking the opposite approach.

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Speaker 1: All eight of these cities minus I think St. Louis,

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Speaker 1: which just lost its NFL team, has an NFL team.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them are playing in NFL venues already. Um, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking a cheaper ticket approach, I think is

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Speaker 1: a way to maybe try to draw in a number

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Speaker 1: of fans early on. Who think you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's no other football going on right now. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's February, it's March. Uh, and I can take my

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Speaker 1: family to this game pretty cheaply. Maybe we give it

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Speaker 1: a shot and see how it is This is a

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Speaker 1: lot like if you take it and no en sold

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Speaker 1: to the XFL. But this is a lot like if

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Speaker 1: you take your family to see a minor league baseball game.

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Speaker 1: You can go and you can have a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm seriously, the fifty yard line seats are

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars is I mean, how can you not

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Speaker 1: go wrong with that? Yeah, And it's it's a good

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Speaker 1: point to mention minor league baseball because we've talked a

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Speaker 1: bit about how major league baseball attendance is going down

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Speaker 1: kind of precipitously, right, it's kind of a big problem

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Speaker 1: for the league. Minor league baseball attendance skyrocketing, right, And

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that's happening is because you know that it's becoming kind

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Speaker 1: of cost prohibitive to go to a lot of major

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Speaker 1: sporting events. But minor sporting events and the XFL, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they would be that offended to think of

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Speaker 1: themselves as kind of in that tier. Uh, those are

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Speaker 1: at a much better proposition. I was thinking about the

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Speaker 1: people that are playing in the XFL and the salaries involved.

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Speaker 1: What is it like about Yeah, so this is This

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Speaker 1: is a much lower number than than I was expecting.

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Speaker 1: I do wonder if the fact that the a F

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Speaker 1: is no longer active means that, you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: less competition than I think maybe Vince McMahon and ww

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Speaker 1: E expected to have when they launched this league, which

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Speaker 1: you know, essentially means that you can you can you

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Speaker 1: can price things a little bit lower dollars for for

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Speaker 1: the season. That's the average player is going to be paid,

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Speaker 1: and that includes you know, your base salary if you're

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Speaker 1: on the team throughout the entire year, your bonuses for winning,

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Speaker 1: and your bonuses for staying on the roster. Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: not that's not a lot of money, right. The the

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Speaker 1: NFL base is four right, so obviously we're talking you know,

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Speaker 1: apples and oranges. There the a F when they signed players,

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Speaker 1: that was a three year, two contract, right, so you

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Speaker 1: know they're coming in way below what the a F was.

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Speaker 1: And obviously the a F had a lot of financial problems, right,

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Speaker 1: So so maybe they're being a bit smarter with their money. Um,

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Speaker 1: but my big question is that's the average Obviously players

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Speaker 1: are gonna be paid more than that. What are they

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Speaker 1: gonna do to sweeten the pot for the couple quote

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Speaker 1: unquote stars or big names that they need to get. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see kind of what the top

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Speaker 1: end of salary looks like and not just the average. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When we were talking with Oliver luck who is one

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Speaker 1: of they had hot shows of the XFL several months

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Speaker 1: ago about what you need to do to make viewers

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Speaker 1: watch this league, one of the things that he mentioned

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Speaker 1: is that maybe you have some helmet cams in there,

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Speaker 1: and I would like to see that. Yeah, So, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're right, the the XFL is yet to kind of

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Speaker 1: really lay out what is going to be so different

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Speaker 1: about its brand of football than the NFL's, right or colleges. Um,

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Speaker 1: And you're right, there's gonna be I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of kind of new innovative media, you know, microphones, maybe

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Speaker 1: helmet cams, things like that. I think they're going to

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Speaker 1: try to present the football in a different way. And

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Speaker 1: and and it makes sense, right the the XFL is

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Speaker 1: a much smaller organization than the NFL. You know, they've

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Speaker 1: got less to risk if they do things that don't work.

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Speaker 1: You know that they can be a bit more nimble,

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Speaker 1: uh than the NFL can. For sure, U up. Next,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about Nike in it's Oregon Project, which supported

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Speaker 1: elite track athletes, but the company is closing up shop

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Speaker 1: on the project after a top coach was banned for

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Speaker 1: violating anti doping rule. Yeah, kudos to Scott who broke

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Speaker 1: this story last week. Um, the night Nike has had

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Speaker 1: for you know, almost twenty years back since back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand one, they launched the Oregon Project, which was

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Speaker 1: a team of elite runners. People who follow track know

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Speaker 1: them very well, right, It's it's kind of the cream

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Speaker 1: of the crop. Uh And Alberto Salazar, you know, who

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Speaker 1: was a longtime marathon champion, was the coach of the

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Speaker 1: Oregon Project, the co founder. As we discussed two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: you know, he just was given a pretty hefty a

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Speaker 1: four year ban from track and field by the U

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Speaker 1: S Anti Doping Agency UH for for violations of their

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Speaker 1: anti doping code. And the big question after that happened

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Speaker 1: was what happens with this elite Nike running team, Right,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of a new idea when it happened.

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Speaker 1: It is still or was still because it's no longer

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Speaker 1: in existence, but was this kind of unique partnership between

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Speaker 1: sporting goods company and elite running team. Right that it

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Speaker 1: was based out of Nike's Beaverton headquarters. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: they had a very tight relationship obviously with the apparel

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Speaker 1: maker in terms of you know, they had their own

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Speaker 1: logo and selling all that. Um. But you know, in

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Speaker 1: the aftermath, Mark Parker, the CEO of Nike, decided, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can't we can't really have this team in this

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Speaker 1: in this form anymore. Well, what what is sad about

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Speaker 1: this is that there are a lot of innocent people

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Speaker 1: involved in this that are going belly up and they

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Speaker 1: had nothing to do with any of the doping controversy. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's worth noting that, you know, despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that the coach was given you know, a pretty

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Speaker 1: hefty band from from the sport, none of the actual

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Speaker 1: athletes were were said to be involved in in what

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Speaker 1: he was doing. There was no evidence that he gave

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Speaker 1: banned substances to any of them. Um. And you're right,

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Speaker 1: this is a this is again, it's an elite stable

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Speaker 1: of athletes. Cefon Hassan, if I'm pronouncing her name right,

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Speaker 1: is a Dutch runner. She's one of the top young

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Speaker 1: runners in track and field. Right, now, Donovan Brazier just

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Speaker 1: set the US record in at the World Championships. All

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Speaker 1: these people, Galen Rupp, you know who's been with a

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Speaker 1: Nike Oregon project, perhaps even their most famous athlete for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. Um, all these guys need and

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Speaker 1: women need to find new coaches. And you know we're

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Speaker 1: not that far away from Olympic Trials and the Olympics, right,

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Speaker 1: We're less than a year out from from Tokyo, so

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Speaker 1: that the timing is is kind of tough. UM. Nike

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Speaker 1: obviously doesn't make a decision like this lightly, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it does make you wonder how much, if at all,

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Speaker 1: this may change Nike's kind of dominant position as a

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Speaker 1: sponsor and track and field. And finally, Ivan, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about this story and a story that you are totally

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Speaker 1: connected with with sources telling you that the NFL could

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Speaker 1: boost the amount of money perspective NFL owners could be

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Speaker 1: allowed to borrow. If it happens, it looks like this

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Speaker 1: could open up ownership to a much larger pool of investors.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the way I could compare this is

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Speaker 1: when you're going out and you're buying a car, and

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Speaker 1: you go out and you're trying to get a loan

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Speaker 1: and when the dealership ask you, well, how much are

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Speaker 1: you gonna put down? And you say this amount, and

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Speaker 1: you know we've got to put at least twenty down,

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Speaker 1: this that whatever. Well this is along the same line. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And the NFL has always been, you know,

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Speaker 1: they they've always been pretty stingy in terms of how

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Speaker 1: much a perspective owner is allowed to uh to finance

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Speaker 1: in debt. I mean, your example is exactly right. I mean, oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: if you buy a car, you're putting down, right, and

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Speaker 1: you're financing the other with a loan, right, same with

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Speaker 1: you know, a mortgage on a house, etcetera. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: NFL has been almost the exact opposite, right traditionally, as

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Speaker 1: it is right now, you're only allowed three million dollars

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Speaker 1: of debt if you're going to finance buying a team, right,

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Speaker 1: and if you're buying a team at the three billion

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Speaker 1: dollar valuation, which is like roughly the league average, that's

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Speaker 1: only twelve percent in debt. Right. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: all of these teams and NBA is going through the

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Speaker 1: same thing, the fact that valuations are getting oh big,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of limiting the pool of people who can

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Speaker 1: afford to buy these things. Right, When when NFL teams

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Speaker 1: were maybe a billion dollars, maybe a couple hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: you know, there were a lot of people out there

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Speaker 1: who could afford to bid on one. Now that you

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Speaker 1: know the average team is worth around three billion, there's

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Speaker 1: just not that many. Uh. And the NFL, in addition

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Speaker 1: to this debt has you know, a requirement that it

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Speaker 1: has to be in cash upfront, which again is kind

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Speaker 1: of limiting for people. So I think NFL owners are

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Speaker 1: sitting there as NBA owners are doing and saying, listen,

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Speaker 1: you know we want bidding wars for our teams. Right,

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Speaker 1: it helps all of us the moment we want to sell, Um,

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Speaker 1: we we'd like to have a wider perspective pool of

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Speaker 1: rich people who want to own these things. And how

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Speaker 1: do we go about doing that? Right? So the NFL

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Speaker 1: right now, according to sources, they're they're considering expanding from

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Speaker 1: three fifty fifty million to a billion, right, which is

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Speaker 1: a huge jump. It's almost three times um and that

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Speaker 1: will dramatically change the amount of people who are willing

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Speaker 1: to able to buy and also probably get get some

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Speaker 1: bidding wars the next time one of these teams is

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Speaker 1: up for sale. Well, that brings up another point too.

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Speaker 1: I think it opens up a market to the person

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Speaker 1: or the organization doing the loaning. I mean, if you're

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Speaker 1: you're going to loan a billion dollars or somebody, I

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Speaker 1: want to know who's in the market to do that loan.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point. And I'm sure the sports bankers

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Speaker 1: out there that that that we talked with a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know, and some of whom have been on the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they look at this and they, you know,

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Speaker 1: their eyes widen a little bit. Right the The last

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Speaker 1: NFL team to sell, the Carolina Panthers, you know, which

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Speaker 1: people were kind of pegging around the three billion dollar

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Speaker 1: range for a while, ended up selling for two point two. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There was kind of some struggle about people getting there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of interest, but people who had enough

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Speaker 1: money and getting the group together to do it. It It

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Speaker 1: didn't actually end up being that kind of vibrant a process.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is exactly the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that that NFL owners are looking at right now and saying, look,

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Speaker 1: if I have to be the next one to sell

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason or if my family has to be

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Speaker 1: the next one to sell forever, whatever reason, we'd like

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Speaker 1: to have a different process than the way this one

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Speaker 1: turned out. This has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm MICHAELA. Barre along with Evan Nolvi. William Scott will

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Speaker 1: be back with us on Wednesday. We are here each

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Speaker 1: and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of

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Speaker 1: money in sports, and you can join us again at

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Speaker 1: the end of the week when we speak with the

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Speaker 1: biggest and brightest in the sports business world. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the

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Speaker 1: world and online wherever you get to your podets