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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser. Every day

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Speaker 1: we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of

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Speaker 1: business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on

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Speaker 1: in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing

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Speaker 1: the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you

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Speaker 1: can download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com. If you can also listen to a radio

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Speaker 1: show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be

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Speaker 1: sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Global News. There is a lot going on talk about

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Speaker 1: a self testing kit for home that happening in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Over in Europe, though, you did see a

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Speaker 1: protest over Germany strategy to quell the virus turning violent.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's really rough out there and this is

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Speaker 1: a place environment we all know far too well. Back

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Speaker 1: with us to see what she is seeing and concerned

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Speaker 1: about is a Lissa rap CEO of the healthcare solutions

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Speaker 1: company Surgical Solutions. She is with us on the phone

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Speaker 1: from Deerfield, Illinois. Um, Alissa, good to have you here.

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Speaker 1: How are you And when you see these headlines, uh,

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Speaker 1: you're out there in the Midwest. I mean, that's really

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Speaker 1: been a tough spot. It has, Caroline, thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me back being a rise and surge across the country. Candidly,

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Speaker 1: are incidences of exposure or even positivity in our own

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Speaker 1: company amongst our tuner and fifty employees across nine states

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Speaker 1: and thirty five hospitals is pretty much even. We've seen

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Speaker 1: additional you know, exposure or positivity in New York, Kinnesseed, Texas, Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: and it is obviously back. I'm not an epidemiologist, as

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Speaker 1: you know, so I know that the viral load of

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Speaker 1: the virus changes over time and it makes it easier

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Speaker 1: to transmit. So hopefully people who are getting this version

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Speaker 1: of this horrible COVID nineteen flu are not gonna be

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Speaker 1: as sick if they're healthy and young. But it is

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Speaker 1: still it is back that the numbers are real. We're

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Speaker 1: seeing it across the country well, and it's interesting. We

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Speaker 1: just talked a story. We just talked about a story

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Speaker 1: Charlie Pellet and I about how COVID is really, you know,

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Speaker 1: ravaging those long term care centers and we know that's

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Speaker 1: where the elderly population is. We understand those numbers, but

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Speaker 1: I've just talking to it individual here at Bloomberg and

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Speaker 1: uh talked about her nephew succumbing to the virus. So

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Speaker 1: we do understand that as much as we know some

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Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen is predictable, we also know that there

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Speaker 1: are outliers and we don't know still a lot about

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Speaker 1: this virus. Having said that, the vaccine and the developments

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Speaker 1: we've had over the last week and a half from

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Speaker 1: Fiser and from Maderna, what's your takeaway there? I find

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Speaker 1: it incredibly encouraging. I think the vaccines are going to

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Speaker 1: be game changers, needless to say. And the only real

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Speaker 1: question of my mind as a health care service provider

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Speaker 1: is a question around distributions. They need to be stored

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Speaker 1: between UH fifty and hundred blow fahrenheit. Then obviously we

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Speaker 1: need the military and FedEx and UPS working together on

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Speaker 1: a on a combined distribution strategy that leverages single sites

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Speaker 1: that have these massive freezers as well as mobile sites.

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Speaker 1: And I think creativity and real genius in terms of

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Speaker 1: logistics and planning is going to be what needs to

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Speaker 1: happen between now and say April May June, when we

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Speaker 1: get to true general pop relation roll out of the virus.

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Speaker 1: But for frontline healthcare workers, I'm still pretty bullish and

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Speaker 1: optimistic because if those vaccines can start happening in our

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Speaker 1: major metropolis and major sites in December, the second shot

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Speaker 1: in January, whether it's the Visor Maderna or any other vaccine,

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Speaker 1: that means that if we can get first responders and

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Speaker 1: frontline healthcare workers vaccinated, then the most at risk, then

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Speaker 1: the then the rollout further. There should be an abatement

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Speaker 1: of the spread and it should meet it provides some

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Speaker 1: relief to our healthcare system. Well, and you've got to

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Speaker 1: be thinking unless about your workers specifically, right and making

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Speaker 1: sure that they are frontline workers. Uh, and they need

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Speaker 1: to have access to this vaccine. Um. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: curious how you're approaching it. Would you make sure that

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Speaker 1: they are among the first to get it? Are your

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Speaker 1: workers comfortable getting it? And are you concerned about having

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Speaker 1: access ultimately to the vaccine as we kind of try

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Speaker 1: and figure out the distribution and logistics problems of getting

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Speaker 1: the vaccine out a great Those are all great questions.

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Speaker 1: I feel confident in our frontline healthcare workers ability to

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Speaker 1: get access to the vaccine because we follow each hospital's

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Speaker 1: protocol for all things clinical. When we work with our

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Speaker 1: hospital partners, and if their frontline teams are going to

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Speaker 1: be asked to vaccinate, ours will too. And so if

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Speaker 1: it's being provided to hospitals across the country for their

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Speaker 1: frontline workers, I am hopeful and confident we will get

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Speaker 1: that access. And I think that the first twenty million

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Speaker 1: UH doses of the vaccine seemed pretty locked and loaded

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Speaker 1: for December. So again, if we can make sure that

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Speaker 1: that happens and nothing stops it, I think the frontline

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Speaker 1: and first responder should be in good, good shape. It's

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Speaker 1: really that next wave of rollout, Carol, that I personally

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Speaker 1: am curious about. Once our frontline healthcare workers are taken

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Speaker 1: care of, and the countries, after the prioritization for the

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Speaker 1: for the elderly and the most at risk, how then

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Speaker 1: do we ensure that mass distribution happens. I'm confident by

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Speaker 1: the spring will have mass production of vaccine. Mass distribution

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Speaker 1: becomes a bigger challenge. Yeah, listen, I think about that too,

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Speaker 1: in terms of it getting out, and you know, we've

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Speaker 1: been done a lot of reporting about that's kind of

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Speaker 1: our next big headache. And because you know, countries have

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Speaker 1: relationships and deals with various UM drug makers and so

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Speaker 1: so you really do wonder, you know, what kind of

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Speaker 1: horse trading might ultimately be going, you know, going on.

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Speaker 1: And that kind of terrifies me, especially when I think

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Speaker 1: about people who really need it. When I think about

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Speaker 1: developing markets, I mean, it's really going to be, I think,

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Speaker 1: a logistics nightmare. Globally, it's going to be challenging. And remember,

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Speaker 1: the regular food vaccine can be stored at thirty seven

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Speaker 1: degrees terrified and below, and and even that sometimes poses challenges,

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Speaker 1: and this hundred degree below is a real thing. But

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Speaker 1: I know that the biggest sites of points of distribution

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Speaker 1: are already shoring up for those capabilities. I'm confident that

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Speaker 1: in our country specifically, the ingenuity around distributional logistics means

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Speaker 1: that we should be able to come up with a

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Speaker 1: mobile UM mechanism for distributing even this very unusually cold vaccine.

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Speaker 1: So I'm hopeful. I think that we'll see a lot

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Speaker 1: of opening up come next summer. So listen, I know

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Speaker 1: we've talked about schools. I know last time around we

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Speaker 1: talked about UM and I think you you said that

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Speaker 1: you don't think children are super spreaders. Because we were

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Speaker 1: talking about schools reopening. I have to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting, I'm getting a lot of emails from around

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Speaker 1: the newsroom about city looks New York City schools are closing.

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Speaker 1: I actually think cities are being smart that as soon

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Speaker 1: as they start to see numbers go up, UH in

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Speaker 1: certainly just around the country. As soon as they start

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Speaker 1: to see those numbers go up, I mean, New York

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Speaker 1: remembers how bad it was, and I think they quickly

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Speaker 1: moved to say we gotta we gotta pull back, and

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Speaker 1: that's how we hopefully can maybe prevent this from becoming

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Speaker 1: New York City back in March, April and May. Yeah. There.

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Speaker 1: You know, there are two different questions, right Carol. One

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Speaker 1: is our children super spreaders, and there's an abundance of data,

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Speaker 1: and you've had many people on your show that have

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Speaker 1: talked about how they may or may not be and right,

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Speaker 1: we aren't. But there are other stakeholders. And stakeholders are

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Speaker 1: teachers and the elderly family members of UH children in

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Speaker 1: schools who are living in multigenerational, generational households. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's the answer to whether to keep them open

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Speaker 1: or closes is a function from whose stakeholders eyes you're looking,

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Speaker 1: And I think that it's likely, um and probable that

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Speaker 1: many public schools will end up closing post Thanksgiving, pre

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Speaker 1: winter break quote unquote, or even right after winter break, because,

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Speaker 1: as we discussed earlier, this vaccine access is likely going

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Speaker 1: to be healthcare workers and first responders first, and then

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Speaker 1: hopefully in the second wave as soon as January, even

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Speaker 1: teachers and others who we consider a central workers. So

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Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that once teachers are have access more broadly

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Speaker 1: to the vaccine, then they'll be even greater comfort with

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Speaker 1: keeping the schools open. But I think it's likely that

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Speaker 1: to continue to quote flatten the curve. You can agree

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Speaker 1: or disagree, but I think it's likely that schools will

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Speaker 1: close for some portion of winter. Yeah, And I guess

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Speaker 1: what I was kind of saying is right. I think

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Speaker 1: I agree with you because just my own experience with

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Speaker 1: my daughter in school, like the schools have been. I feel,

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Speaker 1: like knock on wood, we're not necesarily talking about colleges

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Speaker 1: and universities. They have had their own strug as um,

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Speaker 1: but I think at large things have actually gone gone

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Speaker 1: fairly well. And I guess what I'm is interesting, is

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Speaker 1: that you're seeing, whether it's the West coast, whether it's here,

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Speaker 1: major cities who saw it so badly in the springtime,

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Speaker 1: Like we remember this, It wasn't that long ago, right,

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Speaker 1: and we don't want to go back to it, so

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Speaker 1: that you start to as soon as you start to

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Speaker 1: see those numbers go up, you kind of rain things

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Speaker 1: in just as hopefully slow it down and more importantly

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Speaker 1: hopefully to stop it from spiking once again into that

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Speaker 1: kind of out of control area. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: that it's also a function of how things have been managed. Right,

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Speaker 1: If we're in a hybrid learning environment in our public

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Speaker 1: school district here in the suburbs of Chicago, and you know,

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Speaker 1: all the children have plexiglass shields, everyone's mass or classrooms

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Speaker 1: eight students or less. We we certainly may end up

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Speaker 1: in a virtual learning mode for a portion of winter,

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Speaker 1: just like most public schools. But none of the transmission

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Speaker 1: in our our suburban school district has happened within the schools.

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Speaker 1: It's happened from people bringing it in from the outside.

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Speaker 1: So that is I think many parents great comfort at

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Speaker 1: schools are safe, kids are safe in schools. It's the

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Speaker 1: community spread is going to be what it is. But

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Speaker 1: again I stand by my earlier claim that I don't

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Speaker 1: personally believe from the data i've read that children under

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Speaker 1: ten are super spreaders by and large themselves. But I

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Speaker 1: understand when taking into account multiple stakeholder groups why schools

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Speaker 1: may choose and districts public districts may choose to close

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Speaker 1: for a portion of winter until these vaccines are more

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Speaker 1: widely disseminated. Right, Well said, hey, listen, Um, I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to something you said to listen because

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important and we've only got about

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Speaker 1: a minute or so left here about you said, logistically,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna need military and partnership with fed X. People

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Speaker 1: have been saying since March April that we are at war,

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Speaker 1: it's a health war, and we need kind of a

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Speaker 1: military you know, a military aspect and reaction to it,

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Speaker 1: if you will, and we really kind of haven't gotten that.

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Speaker 1: Do you think a new administration will move in that direction?

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Speaker 1: I think that it's likely that a new administration would

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Speaker 1: be willing to leverage all tools at its disposal, including

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Speaker 1: the US military, to ensure the broadest dissemination of this

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Speaker 1: vaccine as quickly as possible. And I also believe that

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Speaker 1: our US military is probably uniquely qualified to provide support

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Speaker 1: to commercial parties like that X and ups in that way.

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Speaker 1: So I really hope for a public private partnership in

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Speaker 1: terms of distribution of the vaccine. I think it gives

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Speaker 1: us the greatest probability of the greatest dissemination the fast.

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Speaker 1: If we don't get that, what what what what? Then?

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Speaker 1: Just quickly, I'm not thinking about again. I'm thinking positively, Carol,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get it down so we can have more

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Speaker 1: normal lives by next time. Uh hallelujah. I'm off I'm

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Speaker 1: an optimist too, and I'd like to get back to

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Speaker 1: a more normal life. Um, Alyssa, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for finding time once again for us. Alissa rap she

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Speaker 1: is chief executive officer of Surgical Solutions, joining us on

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Speaker 1: the phone from Deerfield, Illinois, and again uh, watching those

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Speaker 1: virus headlines, but optimistic about the vaccine and ultimately, if

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Speaker 1: we do it right in terms of how we get

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Speaker 1: it out logistically and the distribution, we can move much

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Speaker 1: closer and much uh faster to a more normal life.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we're kind of all hoping for this

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week and the cover story

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Speaker 1: this week, And I gotta say, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I can say this, Jill Weber. Can I just say

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Speaker 1: I got a peek at the cover art you did

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Speaker 1: last night. I have to say it truly encapsulates the

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Speaker 1: essence of this story. Yeah, it's a fun one. Um.

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Speaker 1: And this is one that, um, I think we were

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Speaker 1: we we've been interested in for a while because looks

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Speaker 1: like the staff of Business Week has a lot of

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Speaker 1: cats and dogs at home. Um, And there have been

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Speaker 1: acquisitions that were made during the pandemic. And if you

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Speaker 1: have a dog and go to a dog park like

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Speaker 1: I do, you also recognize that there were many, many,

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Speaker 1: many more dogs in this neighborhood than there were before

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. And one of the big beneficiar areas of

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Speaker 1: this has been Chewy, the online pet retailer that does

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Speaker 1: pet deliveries. And that's what our stories about, all right.

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Speaker 1: So of course, Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber, sorry

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Speaker 1: I jumped the gun there, but I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: you in because I love the cover. Uh, and let's

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Speaker 1: also bring in Bloomberg News Wealth for Porto, Andrew's mail

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Speaker 1: in reporting for Business Week and on the phone from Orlando, Florida,

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Speaker 1: Joel on the phone from the remote access from Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: it is and I gotta say, Joel, it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things in the shutdown that as I would walk

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Speaker 1: my dog Scout around the very quiet neighborhood, I would

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Speaker 1: see boxes of things and I often saw Chewy boxes

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Speaker 1: on the curb. Yeah, and you know they're coming to

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Speaker 1: our house. To um. It's actually in one of our

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Speaker 1: story meetings that turns out that you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of co op apartments in New York City that

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Speaker 1: aren't supposed to have pets, and Chewy Boxes are outing

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Speaker 1: them because it's like, oh, look delivery exactly. UM. So

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Speaker 1: the story of Chewi though, I think it's it's one

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Speaker 1: of these amazing ones because you know, the company has

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Speaker 1: been around for for nine years. UH started basically by

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Speaker 1: a couple of guys who just realized they were going

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Speaker 1: to get into the jewelry business and then realized, wait

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Speaker 1: a second, there could be a bigger opportunity and pets,

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Speaker 1: and they basically scrapped it out for nine years and

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Speaker 1: in the process of that sort of faded from the

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Speaker 1: company and the company now has a has a new CEO.

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Speaker 1: And the story sort of starts with Andrews crunching some

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Speaker 1: numbers and realizing that he's actually incredibly highly compensated. How

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Speaker 1: how highly compensated is Andres about a hundred eight million team.

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Speaker 1: That's what brought me onto to this story. I am,

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Speaker 1: we ran our highest paid CEOs list this summer and

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Speaker 1: sume it's sing. Made a d eight million last year.

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Speaker 1: And I turned to my editor and said, who in

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Speaker 1: the world assume it'sing? And it turns out to see

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Chewy And that's yeah, that's where it

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Speaker 1: all started, right, And it's kind of like, what is

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Speaker 1: to I have to say. We have a market guest

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Speaker 1: who comes on and every time she's like, by Chewy,

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Speaker 1: by Chewy, by Chewi. I mean, this is a business,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you put it in the story and

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Speaker 1: there's that it's very much kind of akin to Amazon

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Speaker 1: in its early days. Yeah, it really is. It's it's

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Speaker 1: what sets it apart from Amazon. Amazon was a model

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Speaker 1: for much of the the quickness, the ease, and the pricing,

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Speaker 1: but will really sets to a part is the fact

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Speaker 1: that you actually have a customer service number to call,

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Speaker 1: and if you call it, there's a person that responds

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Speaker 1: to you within six seconds and it's willing to talk

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Speaker 1: to you four hours. If that's what you feel like

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Speaker 1: about your pet, about pet food, about the fact that

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Speaker 1: you know anything, I've heard stories of customer service agains.

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Speaker 1: You have literally been on the phone for several hours

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Speaker 1: with with pet owners that call in. One of the things, Carol,

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Speaker 1: that I think is really interesting about the businesses. You know,

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Speaker 1: Amazon when it started, it had that one area of

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Speaker 1: expertise that it just nailed, which was books. It's like,

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Speaker 1: how do we bring as many books as we possibly

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Speaker 1: can online and do um e commerce as a as

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Speaker 1: a bookstore right right? And I think we actually kind

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Speaker 1: of like it's almost like they surveyed the landscape and said,

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Speaker 1: what's the thing that we could have recurring payments with

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Speaker 1: that Amazon hasn't thought to do yet, and how do

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Speaker 1: we figure out what that is and then do it

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Speaker 1: at warp speed effectively? And they recognize that pets, So

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Speaker 1: this thing, it's the number in the story, nine billion

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Speaker 1: dollars a year being spent by Americans on pets. If

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Speaker 1: you could get one slice of that, it's a great business.

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Speaker 1: And what they figured out was that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that you can do that are recurring payments,

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Speaker 1: whether it's dog food deliveries or medications, and all of

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Speaker 1: those things are just cruise controlled. That's a subscription revenue model,

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Speaker 1: and it has just allowed them to go sort of

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Speaker 1: warp speed. And they were on a pretty good trajectory

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Speaker 1: before the pandemic, and then the pandemic really played to it.

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Speaker 1: And so Andrews tell us about what they how how

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Speaker 1: they've really capital capitalized on everything this year. Yeah, they've

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Speaker 1: already in the first two quarters they added more customers

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Speaker 1: than in all of the prior fiscal years, and they're

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Speaker 1: on track to finally turned EBIT down positive this year.

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Speaker 1: And they are also on track to hit roughly seven

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Speaker 1: billion dollars of revenue from if I don't misremember, around

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Speaker 1: four point nine. So it's it's really super charged them

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Speaker 1: this year. And they were sort of kind of like Peloton,

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Speaker 1: just perfectly in position to take advantage of the coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: We've been buying our scout, she's a little Irish terrier man.

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Speaker 1: She's been getting toys, you know, and we we've got

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Speaker 1: a subscription thing that we do every month too, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, yep, we just we don't even think twice

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Speaker 1: about it. We're like, it's essential. It's kind of crazy.

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Speaker 1: So wait a minute, though, we said they were like

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Speaker 1: kind of Amazon right in many ways, and it sounds

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Speaker 1: like there are two also like Amazon for a long time.

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Speaker 1: They're not profitable, not yet. And you know, that's a

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Speaker 1: story that is not too unfamiliar these days, that you

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Speaker 1: set assign profitability and instead focus on growing very quickly.

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Speaker 1: And that's what they did, and founder Ryan Cohen and

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Speaker 1: his team they actually ripped the page out of Amazon's

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Speaker 1: playbook and said, we're going to plow every dollar or

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Speaker 1: free cash flow that we get into marketing and customer acquisition.

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Speaker 1: And but he points out in the story that at

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Speaker 1: any point they could have turned off that marketings pigots,

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Speaker 1: and the company would have been profitable even back in

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Speaker 1: So it's really about you know, running and getting scale

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Speaker 1: um as long as you can, as long as your

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Speaker 1: careful ways allows you to do that. And that's what

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Speaker 1: they that's what they've done, and that's why they're so

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Speaker 1: big today. And and actually I love it because the

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Speaker 1: CEO brought this up when when you guys kind of

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Speaker 1: put it to him, is this this fly wheel? Um,

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Speaker 1: this this idea that it's a vaunted when that Amazon's

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Speaker 1: really excelled is sort of like, once you can start

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Speaker 1: spinning off cash, it feeds all the other aspirations that

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Speaker 1: you that you have. What did he have to say

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Speaker 1: about his flywheel, Well, they essentially saying that it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a very surty model. As long as you have

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Speaker 1: as long as you're not burning too much cash, then

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Speaker 1: then that's something that you can keep up. And as

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Speaker 1: long as you keep acquiring customers at a fast enough clip,

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Speaker 1: then then that fly will keeps up. And thanks to shoot,

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Speaker 1: Chewi's focused on autoship and the fact that people have

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Speaker 1: to return to them every once in a while to

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Speaker 1: buy cat litter and food and and so on, and

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Speaker 1: and you can put that on automation. Um, that really

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Speaker 1: helps to underwrite this whole model and it works anders

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Speaker 1: really quickly. So Smit saying, the CEO of chewies up

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Speaker 1: there with Elon Musk Apples, Tim Cook, some other well

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Speaker 1: known CEOs as among the highest paid. Does he deserve

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Speaker 1: to be there considering what he's done at the company

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Speaker 1: and just got about thirty seconds. Well, I think if

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Speaker 1: you're if you bought you right after the I p oh,

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Speaker 1: and you still hold it now, I'm sure you're very

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Speaker 1: happy regardless of how much he got paid. Um. We

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Speaker 1: spoke to some former employees who pointed out that the

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Speaker 1: company with an excellent shape already when he took over.

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Speaker 1: Interesting kind of feel kind of feel bummed out for

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Speaker 1: the two founders though. Man Um, it's a great, great read,

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Speaker 1: And I told you you've got to check out the

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Speaker 1: cover because I think I'm gonna go home and frame

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Speaker 1: it because it's just adorable. You're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so

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Speaker 1: this story definitely caught my attention. I was reading in

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Speaker 1: pretty early this morning on my way into one Lexington

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Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg headquarters. It's a top story in my

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Speaker 1: view at this hour, since as we watch closely COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteens impact on our economy and its recovery, which has

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Speaker 1: been so well described I think by Peter atwater over

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Speaker 1: at William Mary as the K shaped recovery, which illustrates

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Speaker 1: some Americans, they have been largely untouched by the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: For others, the lower leg of the k it has

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Speaker 1: been catastrophic. And maybe there's some folks in between that

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Speaker 1: as some of the relief efforts start to come undone

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Speaker 1: and stop, they're going to be in a tough way.

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Speaker 1: This story is among the most read on the Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: It is about the year end fis school clifs that

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Speaker 1: are approaching for millions of Americans. Let's get into a

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Speaker 1: three picker. She's US economy reporter at Bloomberg and she

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Speaker 1: is joining us on the phone in New York City. Read. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is an important story. I really do think everybody

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Speaker 1: has to stop listen because if we're worried about kind

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Speaker 1: of where we are because of COVID, if we're worried

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Speaker 1: about what's going to happen in the economy, especially with

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Speaker 1: a lack of stimulus, you really lay it out what's

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Speaker 1: at risk. So first of all, give us the big picture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course, and thank you for so much for having

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Speaker 1: me on to talk about this story. Sure, um, so

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Speaker 1: I guess the big The big picture of this is

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Speaker 1: that there is a wide range of programs that are

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Speaker 1: scheduled to expire at the end of the year, and

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Speaker 1: they range everything from UM to federal Unemployment Insurance Plan programs,

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Speaker 1: to a national addiction moratorium to a freeze on student loans.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as you were talking about this case

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Speaker 1: shaped recovery, that the people that are really going to

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Speaker 1: feel the brunt of the pain from these acts rations

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Speaker 1: are really those who are currently still out of work.

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Speaker 1: And UM these programs, you know, they have a wide

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Speaker 1: range of youth, but I would say the biggest impact

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Speaker 1: is definitely going to be from the expiration of those

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Speaker 1: two unemployment insurance programs. Twelve million people, you say, right,

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Speaker 1: we'd roughly twelve million, yes. So the Century Foundation UM

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Speaker 1: put out a report this morning where they estimated it

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Speaker 1: would be about twelve million people that would be cut

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Speaker 1: off from their unemployment insurance on December twenty six. And

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Speaker 1: for these people, this has been an extraordinary lifeline during

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. And it's it's two parts. There's the folks

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Speaker 1: that you know, prior to now wouldn't typically be eligible

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Speaker 1: for PEN for jobless benefits, and those are the people

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Speaker 1: who are on a program called Pandemic Unemployment Assistant PUA,

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Speaker 1: so that's your gig workers, your self employed workers. UM.

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Speaker 1: And and they have gotten these programs at these you know,

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Speaker 1: a check each week that has helped support them during

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Speaker 1: this this time where you know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: aren't taking ubers and a lot of these jobs don't

429
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: have the same kind of demand UM that they normally

430
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: would UM. And then the other program is very similar

431
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: to what we've seen in past recessions. UM. It's called

432
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 1: p e u C for short, but essentially it's an

433
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: extension of jobless benefits for those who have exhausted their

434
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: regular state benefits. So we saw this in the two

435
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: thousand and seven to two thousand and nine recession as well. UM.

436
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: But whether people have used up the full number of

437
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: weeks that they have or not, unless Congress acts it's

438
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: it's set to expire at the end of December as well.

439
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: Read and I want to go to some of the

440
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: other UM. You know, specific programs that you say you

441
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: know will come to an end and that really put

442
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans at risk. But the one thing

443
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: I like about your story is, Yep, you go through

444
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: these you lay at the numbers, you lay at the research,

445
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: but you also talked to America and what it means. Like,

446
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: tell me about Larry Long of Willow Grow, Pennsylvania. Yeah,

447
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: of course, And and I'd like to say that there

448
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: were more people that UM first space purposes me couldn't

449
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: fit them into the story, but Larry was someone that

450
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: really stuck out to me. UM. I I tried with him,

451
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: and he's one of UM. He's receiving the t U

452
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: A that UM that unemployment assistance for for those aren't

453
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: who aren't typically eligible. But UM he is a sixty

454
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: three year old black man UM in a town that's

455
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: a little bit outside of Philadelphia. And before the pandemic

456
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: he made his income by basically hoping to plan charity

457
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: events and UM corporate parties. And as you can imagine,

458
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: as soon as pan as the pandemic hit, he said

459
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: that for a couple of weeks he was just receiving

460
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: cancelation email after cancelation email and UM, so since then

461
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: he has been getting these pandemic unemployment assistance payments. And

462
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: for the summer it worked out okay because UM the

463
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: Cares Act, which was the main fiscal relief bill that

464
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: was passed back in March, UM provided this extra six

465
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: dollars a week and unemployment assistance, and when he had

466
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: that extra six hundred dollars, he was able to make

467
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: it work. Um. But as soon as those six hundred

468
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: dollar payments ended and expired at the end of July,

469
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: the bills have just been piling up. Um. So when

470
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: I was talking to him about what I mean, what

471
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: day to day looks like him for right now, he

472
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, said that with the amount that he's getting,

473
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: he's really just trying to put food on the table. Um.

474
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: And he's has negotiated with his his landlord to try

475
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: to make an agreement payment. But um, he's he's really

476
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: nervous about this, the culmination of running out of anyway,

477
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: but also of the eviction more national eviction moratorium expiring

478
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: at the end of the year as well. Right, you said,

479
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: he's he's worried about losing his home and he's also

480
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: worried he's you know, as you write in your story,

481
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: he's an older black man with a touch of diabetes.

482
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: So he's scared to death just about survival. Hey just

483
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: quickly just got about thirty or forty seconds here on

484
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: the tenant evictions. What do we need to know about that? Yes,

485
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: so on the evictions front UM. This is basically it

486
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: has been a national um, a national policy to keep

487
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 1: people in their homes and prevent landlords from evicting their

488
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: tenants when they couldn't fully pay UM. And that has

489
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: been a saving grace for a lot of people. UM.

490
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: But the problem now now, of course, is that eviction

491
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: moratorium is UM set to expire at the end of

492
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: the year. So people are heading into January, perhaps with

493
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: several months behind of of not having fully paid their

494
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: rent or not have paid their rent at all UM

495
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: and could very much base eviction because the fact that yeah,

496
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: their bills to pay as well. Yeah. Yeah, We've talked

497
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: about that with a lot of folks in the real

498
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: estate industry. The problem is, you know, you know, I

499
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: think about December thirty one, right, people are often like, oh,

500
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: a new year, you know, thinking about what's to come promising,

501
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: and then for many that's a deadline that could be

502
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: really really tough. UM. I'm gonna put your story out

503
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: on Twitter because you go into all the programs and

504
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: all the specifics. So thank you so much. Read really

505
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: appreciate you bringing it to us. Read pick it. She's

506
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: US Economy reporter Epploomberg News on the phone from New

507
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: York broad mac Journal. But you let me drive, no, no, no,

508
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: d please l I want to drive. Strive the questions,

509
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 1: yeahs the drive of the globes well dry us down radios.

510
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: It is time for the drive to the close back

511
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: with us as Craig Hodges, CEO and portfolio manager of

512
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: the Hodges Funds one point five billion dollars in assets

513
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: under management, based in Dallas, and joining us on the

514
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: phone from there on a day Wednesday where we've got

515
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: stocks pretty much hovering out their loads of the sessions

516
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: who are down about, as Charlie mentioned, down about nine

517
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: tens of a percent on the Dow Jones Industrial Average

518
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: down two hundred seventy nine points, SMP five also down

519
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: almost nine tenths of a percent at thirty five seventy eight,

520
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: and the NASAC just down about half percent, down sixty

521
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: five points. So, Craig Hodges, nice to have you here.

522
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: How are you doing? I know there's been some rough

523
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: COVID numbers out in Dallas. I've got a bunch of

524
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: family out in Texas. How are you doing? Yeah? Doing well.

525
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: We we know we've been pretty fortunate not to get

526
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: hit too hard, and I think I think it's you know,

527
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: fairly under control here. But but the numbers you see

528
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: do scare you. So you you have to continue to

529
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: take to take heed if you will, Yeah, exactly, Well

530
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: how do you have to What does it mean for

531
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: investors or they have to take heed as well? You know,

532
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: I think that they do. Um, we've we've had an

533
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: interesting situation. You know, we manage money, and we had

534
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: a lot of individual accounts, probably over six hundred and

535
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: I think throughout the industry what you saw around the

536
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: election time, starting at about uh September, as people raise

537
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: a pretty good cash position in their accounts, not to

538
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: predict what would happen, but just because of the volatility

539
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: and the uncertainty. Other well, there wasn't hardly any volatility,

540
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: and the market has continued to move up. So I

541
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: believe what's happened since the election, even though it's even

542
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: though it's uh, you know, hasn't been finalized, although everyone

543
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: knows what will happen, um, is that people are putting

544
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: that money back to work. So I think that's what's

545
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: driven the market here in the last you know, month

546
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: or so. That being said, I think it's probably a

547
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: little ahead of itself. Um. I did a I did

548
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: a conference call with a bunch of great money managers

549
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: last night, and the optimism was flowing. And anytime you

550
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: see that makes me want to run for the exactly exactly,

551
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: So I don't look for anything, you know, terrible, but

552
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: I think the market could be a little ahead of itself.

553
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: Why are money managers so enthusiastic? What were they saying

554
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: on that call? Well, there's been so much disruption in

555
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: there in the marketplace, and there's been the stocks that

556
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: have done fantastic this last year and a half, and

557
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: there's been stocks that have done horribly, and you're starting

558
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: to see the wall. Yeah, and and the and the

559
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: ones that have lagged that still have good, good business

560
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: opportunities are really starting to perform. So I think, and

561
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: and and that's what a lot of these people, and

562
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: not everyone is in the you know, the fang and

563
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: the top you know six stocks that have driven everything. Um,

564
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: there's another market out there that's kind of been the

565
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: have knots if you will, and so um, and that's

566
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: what that's what we're doing here at Hodes Funds and

567
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: Hodges Capital because there's a just a bevy of stocks

568
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: that have not participated that you're starting to see all

569
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden get some breath and start to move.

570
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: How frustrated though, are you guys to be in the

571
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: small cap space and I know they're starting to have

572
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 1: their day a little bit, but I'm looking at your

573
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: Hodges small cap. Fine, you're up about three and a

574
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: half percent. Uh, it's been a struggle. It has been

575
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: a struggle for you know, going on three years. And

576
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: although I will say this, um I noticed that the

577
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: small cap performance the Russell two thousand, one of their

578
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: of the stocks in the Russell two thousand are above

579
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: their two day moving average on the chart and being

580
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: very technically you know, a positive. That's the most since

581
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen. So it really looks like things

582
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: are starting to turn. And you know, these things go

583
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: in cycles, and it's very it's very understandable why the

584
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: large cap you know, stocks have moved so well. It's

585
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: been basically the E T F craze that's driven a

586
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: lot of that. But there will be a time and

587
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: place for small caps and we really and and they've

588
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: had really nice help performance for i'd say about the

589
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: past two months or so. All right, interesting, um, so

590
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: talk to us about some of the names, because my

591
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: underest in is among the major themes that you are

592
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: interested in. It's kind of de urbanization and business is

593
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: related to that. What specifically are you talking about. You're

594
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: talking about the exodus from from cities. Yeah, you're seeing

595
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: because you believe that's really gonna stick. Oh my gosh, Well,

596
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: you saw this in the seventies happen and it lasted

597
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: for for you know, anywhere from five day years depending

598
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: on the dad. But it was miserable in the cities.

599
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: There was economic there was crises, and so and so forth.

600
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean, well, there's it's not just the the unrest

601
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: and the COVID that's driving people out. It's the fact

602
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: that all of a sudden, you don't have to have

603
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: an hour and a half commute to get to work.

604
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: You can work from home, or you can you can

605
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: live two states away and live wherever you want and

606
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: still work at whatever firm. I've seen where thirty percent

607
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: of the companies out there are saying they'll never bring

608
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: these people back into the office, they'll let them work remotely.

609
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: So that's going to drive people to the suburbs. And

610
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: you add on the fact that you have historically low

611
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: interest rates. The millennials, which is the biggest demographic in

612
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: the history of the world. You know, there's there now

613
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: at that age they're they're you know now at that

614
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: age where they're moving out, they're getting married, they're buying homes.

615
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: And it's also economic and that it's better, it's much

616
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: much better financially to own than to rent, especially with

617
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: these low rates. And then we've got this shortage of housing.

618
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: So it's not just the housing stocks that we like,

619
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: it's everything related to those. And you're talking about your

620
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: retailers like home Depot and Lows and and you know

621
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: companies that that do lawn and guarding and remodeling and

622
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, things like that. Even like the home gym

623
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: business is a phenomenal thing that's happened. Pet pets and

624
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: pets supplies and and all these things. The mattress business

625
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: is really booming right now. Um. And so there's many

626
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: ways to play this thing. And like I said, I

627
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: think this, I think this will last for years and

628
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: not just not just be a you know, a flash

629
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: in the pand if you will, all right, so if

630
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: you had to commit new money. One of the new

631
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: names or one of the names you like is Taylor Morrison.

632
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: You would be committing to money there, Yes, we would.

633
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: They're in great markets. Um. They it's one of the

634
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: least expensive trading a right around book value. And you've

635
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: seen most of these homeowners have made tremendous moves, and

636
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: it's made a good move. It's so far this year

637
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: we've seen. You're right, the homebuilders have really been on

638
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: a rise. Low mortgage rate and as you said, some

639
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: of the trends of people uh moving out, and also

640
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: the supply has been down. Yeah, and and historically these

641
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: things are feast or famine, But like I said, I

642
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: think there's because of the shortage and because of about

643
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: three months supply of housing. I think this is a

644
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: trend that's gonna last for for a considerable time. So,

645
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: and they're still very inexpensive. These stocks are some of

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00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: the most inexpensive the entire market. Yeah. Teller Morrison's got

647
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: a forward looking peve about not quite eleven, just under

648
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: it in a current peve about six point six um interesting, interesting,

649
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: just quickly thirty seconds. Rocket Mortgage, same story. Yeah, we

650
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: believe Rocket will will be the dominant you know brand

651
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: in mortgage and refinancing, and they have laevable scale opportunities

652
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: in that company. And um, you know they're not just

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00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: a refinance firm. They're actually because of young people being

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00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: more comfortable with different thing on their phones, there's more

655
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: and more people going this route they think they're Their

656
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: market share will go from ten where it is now

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00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: by two thousand thirty, and that will be a juggernaut

658
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: of a company. Forty two billion dollar market cap company.

659
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: That's pretty remarkable. I'm gonna leave it there. UM, really

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00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Craig Hodges, CEO, portfolio manager of the Hodges Phones,

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00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: on the phone from Dallas. Thanks so much for listening

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00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,

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00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,719
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00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: out our daily radio show at two pm Eastern on

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00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,600
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00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,080
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