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Speaker 1: Buddy Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I've thought about in

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Speaker 1: the past when I go out onto crime scenes and

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Speaker 1: I see the homes of individuals, and you see them

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Speaker 1: in all various conditions. You walk in and you'll see

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Speaker 1: places that are absolutely impeccable, and not just style but

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Speaker 1: also in how they are kept. But those seem to

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Speaker 1: be the exception and not the norm, at least in

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Speaker 1: my experience. I've had those where I've gone into, you know,

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Speaker 1: homes that I guess I would regard in my status

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Speaker 1: as mansions. But many times you walk into places and

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Speaker 1: there's been a total disregard for those things that have

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Speaker 1: been I don't know, a crue through a life. You've

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Speaker 1: spent money on them, but yet they kind of lie

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Speaker 1: about in trash heaps, things broken, torn, what would to

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Speaker 1: most people seem to be rubbish, just kind of piled

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Speaker 1: off on the sides, and you often wonder what brought

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Speaker 1: this person to this state to in dwell this type

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Speaker 1: of environment. But you know, sometimes you find things hidden

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Speaker 1: beneath those piles and secreted away in locations that you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't normally think you would find things that would draw

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Speaker 1: you to I don't know, discomfort, maybe even horror on

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Speaker 1: body backs. Today we're going to talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about a rather gruesome discovery, a gruesome discovery that has

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Speaker 1: been made in far western Colorado in Mason County. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this his body bags. Dave you

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Speaker 1: ever been much of a yard sale of tender I

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Speaker 1: have been.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked. Actually, you know what, Wait, you

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Speaker 2: haven't won this weekend. Every day's a party, every meal's

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Speaker 2: a feast is just like Marty Grau without the beads

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Speaker 2: when you're at at somebody's yard sail. You've got a

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Speaker 2: home that has been recently sold, and the people that

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Speaker 2: bought the home are flippers. House flippers fairly common practice.

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Speaker 2: Oftentimes they'll come into an area and they'll buy a

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Speaker 2: home that's undervalued for various reasons. It could be damaged,

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Speaker 2: it could need some repairs, or things like that. In

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Speaker 2: this particular case, according to a neighbor, the people who

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Speaker 2: had lived in the home before might have been hoarders.

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Speaker 2: There are varying degrees of hoarders. It's guilty pleasure of

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Speaker 2: mine is watching the TV show Arder.

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Speaker 1: I actually worked a death involving the former spouse who

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Speaker 1: the the lady that died was had been previously married

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Speaker 1: to a well known radio celebrity from the forties and

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Speaker 1: the fifties. And if anyone's ever heard of the show Skyking,

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Speaker 1: which was a show that was on the radio and

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Speaker 1: then it it kind of jumped over to television. And

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Speaker 1: she died in this home. And Dave, I swear you

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Speaker 1: walked through her home and she had stacks and stacks

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Speaker 1: and newspapers, and there were paths that were cut all

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Speaker 1: the way through the newspapers in order to get to

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Speaker 1: her various living areas. It made it kind of made

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Speaker 1: me hyperventilated environment. I couldn't I couldn't function. Yeah, she was.

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Speaker 1: And this is when people kept news. All I could

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Speaker 1: think of is if you smoked, if you if you

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Speaker 1: tip your cigarette anywhere in there, this whole place is

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Speaker 1: going up. And it was an apartment. Oh even worse.

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Speaker 2: Well, in this case, we have a people that they

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Speaker 2: sold the home. And what I've had to do with

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Speaker 2: some research on this because to start right where we are, okay,

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Speaker 2: new owner. The new owners come in and they're cleaning

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Speaker 2: the house up, they're preparing to flip the home, and

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Speaker 2: so they run an ad social media on Facebook, Craigslist,

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Speaker 2: what have you hate? We got stuff in this house.

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Speaker 2: Come by and get what you want. It's all free.

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Speaker 2: They just need it toed it off, and people did.

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Speaker 2: One of the items was a freezer, and you know,

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Speaker 2: as they were getting the freezer out to take it

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Speaker 2: off site, they wanted to unload it because it's too

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Speaker 2: heavy to move. And it was a working freezer. That

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Speaker 2: was the catch. Hey, it's a working freezer, come get it. Well,

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Speaker 2: what do you have inside of working freezer? Frozen stuff?

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Speaker 2: And there are bags of frozen meat. Don't know exactly

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Speaker 2: what kind because it's been in there for a long time,

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Speaker 2: but there's a bag, a black bag. It's wrapped up,

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Speaker 2: and they get it out and it starts to kind

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Speaker 2: of unrapl and fish fillets fall out, and so they

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Speaker 2: kind of assume, well, this's just old food. And they

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Speaker 2: get the bag up to the tail of a pickup

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Speaker 2: truck that they're going to try to put the freezer in,

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Speaker 2: and as they're unwrapping it more because it's coming apart,

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Speaker 2: a head falls out. A human head falls out of

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Speaker 2: the bag. Now you just had you know, Uncle Ben's

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Speaker 2: fishvallets fall out. The next thing. You're not expecting a

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Speaker 2: You're never expecting a human head. They immediately stop everything

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Speaker 2: and call the police. Mark your calendar's friends. If you

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Speaker 2: find a frozen head and a freezer, your life now

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Speaker 2: becomes the time before you found the frozen head and

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Speaker 2: the time after, because you will never forget this moment

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Speaker 2: in time.

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Speaker 1: No, and I can. I can tell you most assuredly

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Speaker 1: that anybody that discovers a human remain, it does it

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Speaker 1: marks you at that moment in time. And I actually

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Speaker 1: had this happen to me. I remember one one case

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Speaker 1: famously for me, where I was the person that discovered

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Speaker 1: a set of human remains. Remember when you work for

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Speaker 1: the medical exam, you're called out as a result of

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Speaker 1: human remains that have been found. Okay, now, it could

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Speaker 1: be a homicide, it could be a natural, it could

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Speaker 1: be skeletal remains, and we would always come in the aftermath.

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Speaker 1: But there had been a multiple death in this residence.

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Speaker 1: And I was searching through some of the remainder of

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Speaker 1: the home and opened a closet and there in the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the closet were pots and pans, but they

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Speaker 1: were stacked on top of a rug, and when I

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Speaker 1: went to pull the rug up, there was blood. And

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Speaker 1: then I pulled it up even more and I saw

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Speaker 1: the backside of a female that was in a fetal position,

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Speaker 1: and she had been killed and stuffed in the closet,

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Speaker 1: and it, hey, brother, it got my attention. I'll have

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Speaker 1: to tell you that I'll never forget that moment. And

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Speaker 1: one thing that always stood out it was I believe

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Speaker 1: it was her son that had killed her. He had

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Speaker 1: had taken a rendering from when he was a small

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Speaker 1: child of a Valentine that he had cut out, you know,

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Speaker 1: kids will do this on construction paper, and it said

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Speaker 1: I love you, mom, And that was resting on top

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Speaker 1: of the pots and pans that were stuffed on top

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Speaker 1: of the carpet which contained her body. So yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: even as an old death investigator, I remember finding bodies.

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Speaker 1: I cannot even begin to fathom this idea that you are,

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Speaker 1: John Q. Citizen. Yeah. I mean, everybody's encountered rotten food

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Speaker 1: and a refrigerator and you go digging about and you

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Speaker 1: don't know what you're gonna find, and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden you take out the black bag and the thing

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Speaker 1: begins to give way. You see fish, then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, rolling onto the ground at your feet is

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Speaker 1: a human head. Yeah, my head's still kind of reeling

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Speaker 1: right now, Dave, No pun intended in my head is

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Speaker 1: I cannot imagine the price that is paid by this

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Speaker 1: individual that saw this happen literally right before them, as

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Speaker 1: this bag gives way and this head comes rolling out.

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Speaker 1: If I am correct, I don't think that the head

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Speaker 1: was the only human anatomical element that was found at

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Speaker 1: the scene, which again even makes this more chilling. If

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Speaker 1: it could possibly be more chilling.

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Speaker 2: How worse can it? I mean, this is the old

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Speaker 2: joke of you know, but then you know, and so

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Speaker 2: you've got the head and that makes them stop everything

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Speaker 2: they're doing. Again, You've got to remember when you set

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Speaker 2: this scene, this is a home that has been bought,

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Speaker 2: not by somebody who's moving in to start a new life.

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Speaker 2: This is built, but bought by somebody who they're going

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Speaker 2: to clear it out, fix it up, and resell it,

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Speaker 2: that's all. And so people are there to get whatever

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Speaker 2: free stuff they can. They think they got a great

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Speaker 2: deal free frozen freezer that is working, and here comes

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Speaker 2: the head. Well, you call the police immediately and they

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Speaker 2: come out.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: My question is this Joe, Because when the police get

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Speaker 2: that call, are they thinking, Okay, they think it's a

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Speaker 2: frozen they think it's a frozen head in the freezer.

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Speaker 2: But it could be and they started thinking fake head.

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Speaker 2: It could be a joke, It could be any number

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Speaker 2: of it could be a Halloween thing. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: when they get there, Now do they pick up the

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Speaker 2: phone and call you, you know somebody and say can you

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Speaker 2: meet us over there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And anytime you have any question about and I'm

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Speaker 1: saying you referring to the police, anytime they have a question.

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Speaker 1: And this happens more than I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people realize you have a question about h some type

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Speaker 1: of a bit of anatomy I like to say anatomical element,

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Speaker 1: because you never know what that's going to be. If

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Speaker 1: there is any kind of question whatsoever, you call the

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Speaker 1: corner mme and they'll come out and they'll take a

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Speaker 1: look and they'll they'll confirm it.

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Speaker 2: So you'll see it in the state that the police

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Speaker 2: see it.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, exactly, and hopefully you know, and here's

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Speaker 1: the rub, we don't know what the people actually did

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Speaker 1: with this item once it you know, gravity took over

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Speaker 1: to the earth.

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Speaker 2: What we have in the story are first hand accounts

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Speaker 2: of people that were there, and that's why I'm I

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Speaker 2: was looking at all the different accounts of what people

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Speaker 2: claimed on social media and other places, and there happens

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Speaker 2: to be a person who did take pictures of the

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Speaker 2: police going in and out. And that's what I wanted

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Speaker 2: to ask you, because other than the head, again, it

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Speaker 2: was wrapped in a plastic there was a plastic bag.

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Speaker 2: Inside the plastic bag. This head had been wrapped several

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Speaker 2: times apparently, and they were unwrapping it because they obviously

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Speaker 2: have felt different. The bag felt different. But the head

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Speaker 2: fell out and there were hands in there as well. Now,

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Speaker 2: because the police were called as soon as they head

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Speaker 2: hit and nobody touched it after that, apparently, that's I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing it was. If it's somebody like me, after I

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Speaker 2: stopped screaming and crying, I would and somebody called nine

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Speaker 2: one one. You know, I wouldn't touch it, and you

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Speaker 2: tell anybody else don't touch that. It's evidence.

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Speaker 1: Now, No, I could have sworn it. They got hands,

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Speaker 1: you found they found they got.

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Speaker 2: Hands, yes, But the thing is, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it was the people that found the hands, or if

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Speaker 2: it was the police.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, because I got to tell you

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Speaker 1: if if even at the stage, after everything I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and just as a civilian as I am now, if

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Speaker 1: this is laying at my feet, I'm backing off, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell everybody else to back off. Don't touch

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Speaker 1: this any longer. I don't know what Look, if somebody

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Speaker 1: is of a mind to put a head in a freezer,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what else they'll put in there, right

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Speaker 1: because I want the police to come out and secure it,

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Speaker 1: and I want there to be accountability. First off, I

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Speaker 1: don't want them to think I had anything to do

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Speaker 1: with it, and so that's that's an important piece to it.

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Speaker 2: The thing is, I was looking over this and the

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Speaker 2: people that came to get the freezer, like I said,

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Speaker 2: they're there to pick up a working freezer, and there

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Speaker 2: was stuff in the working freezer, and they saw other meat,

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Speaker 2: and they had decided they were going to donate the

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Speaker 2: freezer food to an animal shelter, which I think it's

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Speaker 2: all well and good, but you don't know what it is.

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Speaker 2: You don't know how long it's been there. I don't

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Speaker 2: think this is I'm not suggesting you do that at all.

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Speaker 2: I hate throwing stuff away, but you don't give away

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Speaker 2: something you don't know its origins. You just don't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be able to verify it, even if

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Speaker 1: it's got, you know, some kind of meat stamp on it,

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Speaker 1: you know where I just I don't know about giving

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Speaker 1: this away to an animal shelter. They and they even

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Speaker 1: admitted that this collection of meat, and we're not talking

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Speaker 1: about the head at this point, just the meat that

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Speaker 1: it was in fact freezer burned. So maybe it was

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Speaker 1: just completely on I mean, I don't know about you.

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Speaker 1: Particularly back in my bachelor days, I would buy stuff

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Speaker 1: and stick at my freezer and inevitably I'd never use

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Speaker 1: it. It would wind up being freezer burned. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that happens. So would the animals actually consume this, and.

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Speaker 2: Would don't do that? That's the tip, you know what

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Speaker 2: your tip of today on body bags. If you've got

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Speaker 2: meat in your freezer and you can't tell what it is,

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Speaker 2: don't give it animals.

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Speaker 1: Rules rules to live by, yeah, absolutely, And and but

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Speaker 1: you know, the police are faced with a heck of

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Speaker 1: a conundrum here because they're coming into this thing cold.

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Speaker 1: Literally no no pun intended. Yeah, they're coming in here

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Speaker 1: cold where.

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Speaker 2: Give me a heads up next time you're going to

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Speaker 2: do something, I will.

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Speaker 1: I will. And when you have when you have remains

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Speaker 1: like this and you're trying to understand it and trying

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Speaker 1: to understand the origin of this, uh, this becomes highly

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Speaker 1: complex because that signals. That signals for us from a

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Speaker 1: forensics perspective, that the rest of the house, the rest

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Speaker 1: of that structured Dave is the potential for a crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Because we've talked and we even did a remember we

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Speaker 1: did a special at Crime con about dismemberments, remember yah,

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Speaker 1: and people. I think we blew a lot of people's

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Speaker 1: minds relative to this because you and I had encountered

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Speaker 1: these cases and here we are, we're back at it again.

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Speaker 2: And oh man, I forgot about us doing that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you kid look at us weird after that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well they did. But that's okay. I'm used to it.

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Speaker 2: But let me ask you this, because the police always

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Speaker 2: act like, you know, it's a homicide investigation. Well, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna be honest with you. Is there any other way

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Speaker 2: you could look at finding a frozen head and hands.

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Speaker 2: You're not finding a whole body that's frozen. You're finding

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Speaker 2: parts of a human being. You're finding the head and

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Speaker 2: hands where we don't hear anything about finding any other part.

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Speaker 2: Just head in hand. Now, I'm asking you, how can

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Speaker 2: you look at that and say, Okay, do we actually

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Speaker 2: have like a table in coffee where we debate how

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Speaker 2: a person's head and hands could end up in the

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Speaker 2: freezer and it not be a homicide?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? The only reasonable explanation I could think of, and

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how reasonable it is if this

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Speaker 1: was an anatomical donation that they had stolen or that

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Speaker 1: someone had taken away from a medical school or a

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Speaker 1: dental school. Dental schools in the past have been known

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Speaker 1: to use human heads what merely yeah, to work on

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Speaker 1: teeth and really yeah, I don't know if that still

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Speaker 1: occurs to this day or not, but used to years

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Speaker 1: and years ago, and there are specimens like that that

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Speaker 1: have been dissected out. But you know, how do you

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Speaker 1: explain the hands as well? And here's the thing we've got.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm going back to this term element. We've

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Speaker 1: got three elements, okay, And just because we're looking at

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Speaker 1: this through the lens of science at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: you cannot assume anything. So this is what the police

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Speaker 1: are faced with relative to these three elements. They are

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Speaker 1: faced with a prospect that these three anatomical elements, two

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Speaker 1: hands and a head don't necessarily have to have the

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Speaker 1: same point of origin. Okay, doesn't mean that they came

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Speaker 1: from the same body. I know people are probably listening

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Speaker 1: and rolling their eyes and say, come on, Morgan, be realistic.

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Speaker 1: I am being realistic. You cannot assume anything, right because,

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Speaker 1: for I mean, how many times do we talk Dave

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Speaker 1: or do our coll Well, you and I haven't covered

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Speaker 1: a lot of serial cases on here, but how many

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Speaker 1: times have we sat through lectures or listened to something

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Speaker 1: on television? And you'll have people that will say, well,

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Speaker 1: serial killers love to take trophies. You know, they love

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Speaker 1: to take trophies. I don't know, maybe that's the case.

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Speaker 1: But you cannot just simply blow it off. It cannot

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Speaker 1: just simply dismiss it.

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Speaker 2: You said the whole house now as a crime scene. No, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we did hear a neighbor referred to the house as

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Speaker 2: the house of hoarders, and.

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Speaker 1: Well in the backyard as well, any of the yard

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Speaker 1: space as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry goeh, no, no, and that's why the new owners. Okay,

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Speaker 2: when the house was sold. A week before the house

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Speaker 2: was sold, the a neighbor reported that the family had

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Speaker 2: a U haul truck. Now, I want to back up

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Speaker 2: and tell you a little bit about the family that

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Speaker 2: was there. Can I do that real quick?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, you had the Imer family there. I am

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Speaker 2: I am Er, I am Eer, Bradley, David Iimer and

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Speaker 2: lee Ann Iimer. And I looked him up. I followed

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Speaker 2: the tree on Facebook because David Iimer he died. It

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Speaker 2: was COVID related. He went in in June twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: one and never came out and died on July seventh

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one. They did a fundraiser online. His

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Speaker 2: wife did just said, Bradley Iimer came down with COVID

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Speaker 2: last month and was admitted icy U June twenty seventh.

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Speaker 2: He passed away July seventh. Our family's trying to raise

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Speaker 2: money to pay for his burial and medical And she

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Speaker 2: goes on to list this is what she says. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is in twenty twenty one. We're talking about this

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Speaker 2: head being found in the working freezer in January of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. We're talking last month. In July of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, this is what Leanne Aimer wrote. We

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Speaker 2: had a flood in our home a couple of months

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Speaker 2: ago and have been living in a hotel since May third.

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Speaker 2: All right, they've been in a hotel since May third.

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Speaker 2: Her husband gets sick in June, dies in July. All

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, she said, they're trying to work

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Speaker 2: it out with the homeowners or insurance and contractors to

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Speaker 2: complete the repairs needed. Our daughter is starting her senior

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Speaker 2: year in a couple of weeks, and her father's passing

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Speaker 2: has just devastated her. They were the best of friends.

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Speaker 1: You know, as an investigator you have to have, particularly

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at a case where you've got all

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Speaker 1: of this familial unit. That is, you know that this

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00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 1: event is concentric, so it's like right in the center.

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Speaker 1: It's the bull's eye when you begin to think about

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Speaker 1: where the head is found, the hands are found, and

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Speaker 1: so everything else that extends out from there, all the

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Speaker 1: family connections, the immediate people that were occupying that dwelling.

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Speaker 1: There's I think more than just the brother and the

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Speaker 1: sister and the mother. There's probably a couple of other people.

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Speaker 1: At least there's an indication of that. Where are all

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Speaker 1: of these people? And right now the police to this

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Speaker 1: date have not released who these remains belonged to.

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Speaker 2: Is it possible, Joe, if I die and you don't

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Speaker 2: have and my family can't bury me, they can't. They've

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Speaker 2: tried to raise ten thousand dollars to bury mister Aymer,

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Speaker 2: and they raised about fifteen hundred. I think, yeah, okay,

354
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Speaker 2: if they don't raise enough money to bury you, does

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Speaker 2: the family ever get the body back? Can I go

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Speaker 2: and just claim the body and say, can you put

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Speaker 2: it in my van? I'm gonna take him home for

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Speaker 2: a little while. It all depends on state statue. Really,

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Speaker 2: I was making a joke. That's actually really that you can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. We you know, famously, we had a case in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta where we had family members that lived up in

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Speaker 1: the mountains in North Georgia. I'll never forget this tonight

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Speaker 1: that had happened in Georgia, and you know, Atlanta is

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Speaker 1: not in the Blue Ridge Mountains. These people lived up

365
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Speaker 1: in the Blue Ridge Mountains in North Georgia, and they

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Speaker 1: came and they picked up their loved one in the

367
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Speaker 1: back of a pickup truck and covered him with a tarp.

368
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Speaker 1: They had a burial certificate and all of them, and

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Speaker 1: we had the death certificate, and they weren't going across

370
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Speaker 1: state lines with him, so we released the body to

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Speaker 1: them and they had a family plot where the family

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Speaker 1: all pitched in and dug the grave. So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is a possibility, but most of the time there is

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Speaker 1: In most counties there's an indigent burial fund. And so

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Speaker 1: if the family does not have means in order to

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Speaker 1: bury the body, and you know who the person is

377
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Speaker 1: that is the deceased, you can go and beg if

378
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Speaker 1: you will the county look, please aid us, and they

379
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Speaker 1: will bury the body for you, But you're not going

380
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: to get the body back immediately. If that's what is

381
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: going to happen either way, I hope because in this

382
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Speaker 1: particular case, that we're going to be able to find

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Speaker 1: the rest of the body, because right now all were

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Speaker 1: left with are a pair of hands and a head.

385
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Speaker 1: So in Mason County, Colorado, the authorities are faced with

386
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Speaker 1: several problems. First off, I think the biggest thing is

387
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Speaker 1: who is this? You think about the head, the hands,

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Speaker 1: We've got ways to identify the body if we have

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Speaker 1: a head in the hands, and then they have to determine, well,

390
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: is it possible to understand what may have been the

391
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: cause of the mechanism of death. Well, if you're limited

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Speaker 1: to only hands in a head, it's going to be

393
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Speaker 1: a tough, uphill battle. Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you this too, because there was

395
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Speaker 2: a report that these might have been hoarders in their

396
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: varying degrees of hoarding. We know that the yard was

397
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Speaker 2: a mess. We know there was a lot of stuff

398
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: in there that was toted off, and that's why the

399
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: flippers wanted somebody people to come and get stuff. But

400
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 2: one of the things that was described a neighborhood taken

401
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 2: pictures of the Soon after they got police got there

402
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 2: determined what they really did have. They pretty much shut

403
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 2: down the area and people showed up and has matt

404
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: suits and then white truck with a camper shell without

405
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 2: windows showed up that was identified as belonging to the

406
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: Mason County Coroner's office. Neighbors decided the coroner's presence meant

407
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 2: there was human remains, because at first it was you know,

408
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: it was a doll. It was a Halloween thing, you know,

409
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: But then they see the corner and it's like, oh

410
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: my gosh, that was human. People wearing corner jackets are

411
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: starting to show up. And then the night after this

412
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: is on a Friday afternoon, on Saturday night, they're working

413
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: all day Saturday, Saturday night, law enforcement returns to the

414
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 2: house and went through with black lights. The neighbors were

415
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 2: watching them go from room to room with the black lights.

416
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: That glow is different than what you would normally see.

417
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: What were they looking for with black lights?

418
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: Joe, blood deposition. This is messy business. Yeah, when anytime

419
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: you get anytime you have a dismemberment, particularly when you're

420
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: talking about the head. Even okay, we're going to say

421
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: this from this perspective, even if the person is dead,

422
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: the head is so vascular, the neck is so vascular,

423
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: you're going to have some level of seepage that's going

424
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: to come out of the body. So let's just say,

425
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: for instance, in an example, you shoot body dead, okay.

426
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: Or.

427
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 1: You're left with this idea, well, what do you do

428
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: in order to take apart this body? So that is

429
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: going to leave behind the least amount of mess. Well,

430
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: if they're shot, you're going to have blood that comes

431
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 1: forth from any kind of defect in the body. If

432
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: they're choked out, if they're suffocated, you're not going to

433
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: have that manifestation. But what you will have is is

434
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: the deposition of blood from the process of dismemberment. And

435
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: this blood is not going to be as It's not

436
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: going to be dynamic like we've talked about high velocity

437
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: blood spatter. It's not going to be like that with

438
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound or even medium velocity. It'll be more low.

439
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: It might be passive dripping, and that's going to give

440
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: you an indication of the orientation of where the body

441
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: was and the activities of the end of vials that

442
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: did this, perhaps maybe even the type of tool that

443
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: was utilized to facilitate this. That's another thing that's very

444
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: important here because if these people were hoarders, I'd like

445
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: to know, first off, what walked out the door before

446
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: these folks got to the freezer. Were there tools in

447
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: the house. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would

448
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: be for the cops to have to go out and

449
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: try to track down everybody that had been in that house. Hey,

450
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: did you happen to claim an old handsaw you saw

451
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: laying around? Did you grab an old chainsaw, Was there

452
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: a limb saw? Was there? Or did you have a

453
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: limb shears? Because those have been used in cases I've

454
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: been involved in. Knives? Was there a collection of knives?

455
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: So anything with an edge to it like that that

456
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: could facilitate a dismemberment. You got to go collect that

457
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: stuff and track it down. That's what makes this case

458
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: nightmarish for whoever is involved in it. And I guess

459
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: one of the big questions also, Dave, is where's the

460
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: rest of these remains? We still got upper and lower

461
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: Torso now I don't know that they're necessarily intact, but

462
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: why would you go to the trouble of saving a

463
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: head and hands and then get rid of the rest

464
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: of the body. Where is that body? Did you take

465
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: it and bury it in the backyard? Did you cart

466
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: it off? And you look at that and you think, well,

467
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: what type of vehicles have the people own that have

468
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: lived in that house? That makes those cars potentially potentially

469
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: a secondary crime scene or tertiary crime scene. Holy, So yeah,

470
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: it's so it was endless. It is endless, and you

471
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: could go nuts thinking about it if you're an investigator.

472
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: I was pitching about it purely from the standpoint, and

473
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: they said, there's all this extra meat that they were

474
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: going to take to and I thought, well, what is that?

475
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: Hey, no, no, no, you're You're absolutely right. I want

476
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: to know how that meat is wrapped. And even if

477
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: it is wrapped, I'm not going to believe my line

478
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: in eyes, as as my granny used to say, I'm

479
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: gonna have to confirm it for myself that anything that's

480
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: packaged in there. You know, they use the term animal meat.

481
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: Now I don't know if that means that, you know,

482
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: somebody had been l hunting or deer hunting or killing antelope.

483
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: You're out in western Colorado and they had it, they

484
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: had it butchered at a you know what we call

485
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: down here in the South, a deer cooler, where you

486
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: had somebody that could butcher the meat for you, or

487
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: is this something else, if you know what I mean.

488
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: And the head and the hands were just secondary to that.

489
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: It's also fascinating to me too that you've got fish

490
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: in the bag with the head. And I had thought

491
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: about that, and I'm thinking, well, what significance do fish have? Well,

492
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: if it we all know what rotting fish smells like.

493
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: There is nothing that quite stinks as bad as fish,

494
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if that was used in an attempt

495
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: to mask the smell of decomposing human remains.

496
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. Six months before he died, I'm

497
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: looking at a picture of Bradley Eimer holding up a

498
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: big fish. He says, fishing. He's got a big old

499
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: cigar in his mouth. He's holding up a big fish.

500
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if that was the trophy.

501
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it could have been, but I think

502
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: it was. It could have been one of the trophies.

503
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a I think it said. I think

504
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: it said plural like fish fell out of the bag

505
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: and they apparently were on the surrounding the head, which

506
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: was contained wrapped in another piece of plastic. That's yeah.

507
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: It was like the you know when you're wrapping up

508
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: something to go in the freezer. And the way it

509
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: sounded to me that because there was meat that was

510
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: wrapped in there, and I know, we can wonder what

511
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: it was. I do think because of the way it

512
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: was wrapped, in the way it was identified, in the

513
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: way it was wrapped, that that was meat that was

514
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: wrapped differently than the head was wrapped. That the head

515
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: had been wrapped multiple times, and that it was inside

516
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: of another bag, and inside of this other bag there

517
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: was you know that the fish fell out first because

518
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: the bag was ripping, had been there for a while.

519
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know people talk about about serial killers holding

520
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: onto trophies. I've got another perspective on this, and and

521
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: this has nothing to do with with a serial killer

522
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: necessarily being involved. However, when you have individuals that commit

523
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: a homicide, it's always amazing to me how many of

524
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: these people hold onto the remains that they don't take

525
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: them away in order to dispose of them in such

526
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: a manner that is not going to connect them back

527
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: to it. If you're keeping a human remain within your

528
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: domicile automatically, you know the police are going to come

529
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: looking for you if this, if this is discovered, and

530
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: why would you not create separation. I think it has

531
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: a lot to do with people wanting to have possession

532
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: and control over these damning items that they want to

533
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: have accountability. Because if you go and you bury that

534
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: head out somewhere in the high desert out in western

535
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: Colorado or wherever you know they might have taken it to,

536
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: you no longer have control over that item, it's thrown

537
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: to the winds of chance at that moment. Tom, maybe

538
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: you don't do a good enough job. Maybe you think

539
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: you can keep it better secure there in your home.

540
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: It's interesting because if you do let it out of

541
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: your possession, it could be found by somebody else. But

542
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: let me ask you this, Joe, because we are only

543
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: dealing with the head and hands scientifically. Yeah, first things first,

544
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: what do you do? Because they said there was an

545
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: autopsy done, and okay, I get that. I think of autopsy,

546
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: body laying out and we got the work. But now,

547
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: I mean, you have the head and hands and that's it.

548
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: Where do you start and what kind of information are

549
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: you going to be able to get from the hands

550
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: and the head.

551
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: I think that since those two areas are targeted, obviously,

552
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: at least that we know of, they have been taken

553
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: away from from the body, first place I'm going to

554
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: start is doing thorough X rays. I wonder if, first off,

555
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: with the head in particular, if there is any indication

556
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: of fatal trauma, and that can come in any number

557
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: of ways, dependent upon how soon they got that head

558
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: into a frozen state. Dave, if that person was struck

559
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: in the head, you're still going to have evidence of, say,

560
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: hemorrhage contained inside of the head. Also the skull itself.

561
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: If they were struck with some kind of blunt object,

562
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: you're going to have evidence perhaps of a hairline fracture

563
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: or even a depressed skull fracture. You might even be

564
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: able to appreciate if the person had raccoon eyes. Maybe

565
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: they had been so traumatized in the head that these

566
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: the civil ridges right through here and going back into

567
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: the floor of the skull that's been fractured, we see that.

568
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: And if depended upon here's really really something to consider

569
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: as well, how much of the neck was left attached

570
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: to the head, because if you can go into the

571
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: neck and do a limited dissection, because it's going to

572
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: be self limiting because of the lack of anatomy that

573
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: you have, when you reflect back that tissue, are you

574
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: going to be able to see hemorrhage in the soft

575
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: tissue of the neck in the muscle it's a hyoid intact.

576
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: There's that word again. You know, all those sorts of

577
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: things you want to see if their teeth have been

578
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: knocked out, and you know, and the same thing with hands.

579
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: But the head is going to be very key here

580
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: when it comes to X raying the body. If they've

581
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: been tortured, you can look at the hands to see

582
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: if you've got any fractures, and are those fractures related

583
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: to an anti mortal event, which means before death, like

584
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: where they torture, where they hit in the head, in

585
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: the hands with a hammer, where they sliced in any

586
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: way with a sharp object. Did this person try to

587
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: defend themselves. There'd be evidence of that on the hands.

588
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: So there's a lot you can do with the post

589
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: wartem examination. After you do the X ray, then you're

590
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: going to go in and you're actually going to do

591
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: a dissection, and you know, you're going to dissect that head.

592
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: You're going to open the scalp, you're going to open

593
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: the skull, you're going to take out the brain, you're

594
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: going to weigh it. You're going to look at the eyes.

595
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: It would not surprise me if the eyes had been

596
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: removed as well by the physician to retain them. You're

597
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: not You want to be able to have these specimens

598
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: so that you can go back and if you can't

599
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: find anything in the immediate you can get get a

600
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: consult with someone else. In a case like this, I

601
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: would certainly reach out to a neuropathologist and have them

602
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: look at the skull and look at the brain and

603
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: render their opinion, because sometimes the stuff doesn't appear necessarily

604
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: with the unaided eye. You might have to take micro

605
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: scopic slides and look at it. And again, there's so

606
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: many unanswered questions here. You're going to retain as much

607
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: as you possibly can in case like this day.

608
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: You can get DNA and all that, right, and you

609
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 2: test the DNA against every family member and yeah.

610
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's certainly something and you would probably

611
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: request those those living in this home, they're gonna go

612
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: get a buckle mu coastal swab from each and every

613
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: one of these people. That's gonna be valuable nuclear DNA

614
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: that they're going to retrieve from each one of these people,

615
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: as far as you know, harvesting DNA sample from the head,

616
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and from the hands, and there's other things too.

617
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember regarding the head, unless

618
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: they've all been extracted, you're gonna have teeth, and do

619
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: the teeth do they have all of their teeth? Do

620
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: they have what's referred to as carryou s dentition, which

621
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: means that it is they have rotten teeth, They've never

622
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: been under dental care. Do they have restorations, do they

623
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: have caps, do they have fillings, do they have dental implants?

624
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: Are they wearing a partial? So the teeth are going

625
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: to tell a lot about the person, the lifestyle. And

626
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: then from an anthropomorphic standpoint, if the skull or the

627
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: head is not completely intact, I mean with soft tissue,

628
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: they could do a facial reconstruction on the skull. Because

629
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: it's going to be important to determine the race of

630
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: the individual. Does this individual the race of the head,

631
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: does it fit with the other racial characteristics of the

632
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: individuals that live in this home?

633
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: Will the head continue to decompose after you put it

634
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 2: in the freezer.

635
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: It's going to be greatly slowed. What happens is is that,

636
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about freezer burn a little while ago.

637
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: What happens is is that we use the term desiccation.

638
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: You hear that with fruit and that sort of thing,

639
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: like desiccated dates or something like that. Essentially, all that

640
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: means is that it's drying out. So over a period

641
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: of time, you can have a frozen item like this,

642
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: and it will literally begin to contract, kind of shrivel

643
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: the bone want but all of the tissues so it

644
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: might not be recognizable, but you could still appreciate hair length,

645
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: hair color, Do they have eyebrows, had they plucked their eyebrows?

646
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: If it's a male perhaps, do they have facial hair?

647
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: And you can even you can even appreciate this far

648
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: down range, even if the head has been frozen. You

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00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: can appreciate things like beard's double have they shaved recently

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00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: prior to death? If they do have a beard, how

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00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: long is the beard? All of those little little nuances

652
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: in a case like this are going to be pivotal

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00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: when they're trying to determine what exactly happened. But I

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00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: do know this. To date, the police have not released

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00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: any information, given us any indication as to first off,

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00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: who this person is. They've also not released what the

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00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: cause of death is. But we do have a manner

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00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: the police and the corner have decided that this is

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00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: a homicide. We're going to need to follow up on

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Speaker 1: this case. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body

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Speaker 1: Backs