WEBVTT - Behind the Guilty Pleas in College Admissions Scandal 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.560 You're listening to bloom Bird Law with June Grosso. After 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.720 a year long legal battle and insistence on their innocence, 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.200 Full House star Lourie Lacklan and her husband, fashion designer 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:15.000 Massima Giannui gave up and pleaded guilty to paying half 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.840 a million dollars in bribes to get their two daughters 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:21.280 into the University of Southern California as Fate Crew stars, 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.599 even as prosecutors announced that a twenty fifth parent would 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.360 admit guilt in the sprawling case. Under their proposed deals, 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.880 Laughlin will spend two months in prison and pay a 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.560 one hundred fifty thousand dollar fine, and Giannuly will spend 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.200 five months in prison and pay a two hundred fifty 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.200 thousand dollar fine. Joining me is former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz, 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.960 a partner mcarter and English. They put on such a 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:50.480 fierce defense, challenging the prosecution again and again. Why throw 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.680 in the towel at this point? Lori Laughlin and her 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.480 husband Massima genuinely have bought this tooth and nail from 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.280 the moment that they were charged, and now after almost 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.480 a year, they decided to change their minds and enter 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.160 a guilty plate. They fought the government by challenging whether 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.920 the prosecution should have been brought in Massachusetts rather than 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.080 in California, where they're located. They also challenged the government 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.400 that had named dozens of other parents in the same 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.800 charging document along with them. The only thing that tied 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.120 all these parents together was the fact that they all 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.720 had been involved with Mr. Singer, who was the mastermind, 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.880 who ultimately cooperated with the government. But the last did 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.280 that these defendants raised was they challenge the government over 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.399 what they called out regious government misconduct, which was some 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.160 discovery that the government was late in turning over. When 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.840 that was denied, they changed their minds and decided to 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.319 plead guilty. They were facing trial in October, and the 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:52.560 prosecutors had recorded conversations and emails. Did they see that 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.080 there was too much evidence to explain away? The evidence 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.200 against Lochlan E. G anuinely did appear to be overwhelming. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.000 The problems the defendants faced in this case is that 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.920 they had some very damaging emails that they had sent 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.400 to various people. For example, Gia Newley had forwarded the 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:14.160 two hundred thousand dollar invoice from Mr Singer, the scammed 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.080 mastermind to his financial advisor and included a note saying, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.640 good news, my daughter is in SC. Bad is I 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.280 had to work the system. There also was an email 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.160 from Lori Loughlin to her daughter saying she shouldn't discuss 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.959 the way she got into USC with her college guidance counselor. 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.200 And so it appeared that there was some damaging evidence 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.520 which showed consciousness of guilt on the airport, and ultimately 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.280 there was even a photograph of one of their daughters 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.400 looking like she was on a rowing machine since she 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.679 was being admitted to the school as a rower, when 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.800 in fact she was not rowing at all. Ultimately, this 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.000 is going to be very damaging evidence and likely difficult 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.440 to overcome a trial. The strategy here with the defense 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.040 was to try to see whether there was some way 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.480 to knock this case out prior to trial. They brought 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.360 these charges against the government saying that there was government 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.840 mis conduct. They tried to knock the case out in 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.639 other ways by arguing that they shouldn't have been charged 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.320 along with dozens of other parents. But ultimately, when all 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.640 those legal strategies did not pan out, I think that's 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.720 why they changed their mind and decided to enter the plague, Bob, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.000 we often talked about Felicity Hoffman being a parent that 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:25.520 right away said I'm guilty, I'm sorry, and took her medicine. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.960 Are they still getting a sweetheart deal, a good deal 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.480 even though they fought the system for a year twoth 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.120 and nail as you say, well, there have been thirty 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.520 seven parents charged in this overarching scheme, and to date, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.920 twenty four of them have pleaded guilty. As you mentioned, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.480 Felicity Huffman received two weeks in jail, was one of 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.720 the first to step up and immediately acknowledge her guilt. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.240 The longest sentence so far that's been handed down was 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.920 nine months for former pimcos CEO Douglas Hides. So the 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.520 range in terms of sentencing has really been from two 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.560 weeks to nine months. This sentence here, which is two 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.200 months for Lorie Laughlin and five months for a husband, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.560 kind of falls in the middle. But they did fight 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.200 this charge for over a year. They did battle the 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.320 government by filing multiple motions to try to get these 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.159 charges dismissed or altered, and ultimately seen that they got 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.000 the same type of deal that most of these parents 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.359 have been offered so far in this case. Doesn't that 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.800 send the wrong message from prosecutors. Doesn't that send a 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.640 message that you can keep fighting us every which way 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.960 over and over again, but we'll still give you a 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.360 good deal, rather than the message that you might expect, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.560 which is lead early and you'll get a good deal. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.479 Often the rule is that if you're going to get 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.560 the best deal in a criminal case, that comes early on. 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.280 And if you put the government to its test, if 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.599 you make them respond to motions, and if you fight 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.240 them right up until the day of trial, usually the 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.279 deal is not so attractive. And prosecutors do that because 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.599 they try to get people to enter into these three 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.480 deals early on. If everybody makes them do all the 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.080 work to try to prepare for trial, it becomes an 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.840 overwhelming task for them. And they try to encourage people 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:11.920 to come in early, and they try to encourage people 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.719 to cooperate when cooperation is something that's on the table 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.000 for them. Here though, they do have many, many parents 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.480 who are charged in this case, and ultimately I think 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.800 they're looking forward please that send people to jail. That 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.120 send the signal that even though most of these parents 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.520 were very wealthy, most of these parents paid an awful 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.400 lot of money to try to get their children to school. 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.440 But they're not above the law that they have to 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.680 pay fines in connection with these guilty please, and they 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.359 ultimately have to serve time and jail. The amount of 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.160 time and jail, you could argue is somewhat less than 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.120 maybe perhaps another defendant in a similar case might have received. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.440 But here the government I think is looking at the 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:53.040 overall charges, looking at the number of cases they have here, 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.719 and trying to come up with some fair resolution that 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.520 includes jail time for each of these defendants. And so 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.960 far that's what they've achieved. Why is j newly getting 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.760 a much different sentence when they were obviously in this together. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.800 In entering their guilty, please, Lori Lock would admitted to 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.120 a single kind of conspiracy to commit wire and mail fraud, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.240 while her husband, Mr Giannuly agreed to plead guilty not 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.680 only to wire and mail fraud but also a charge 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.960 of conspiracy to commit on its services fraud. That accounts 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.719 for her sentence of two months and his agreed sentence 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.240 of five months. Ultimately, the government here believed that Mr 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.360 Giannuly was more involved in these payments than his wife, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.719 and that's why we see this disparity in terms of 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.440 the recommended sentences. But remember also that these are agreed 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.760 upon sentences only between the defendants and the government. It's 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.240 ultimately up to the judge as to what sentence will 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.599 be handed down. In this case, the judge is reading 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.400 the pre sentence reports. Do you think you will stick 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.120 to the plea deal in this case? Is there any 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.279 way of telling with this judge? Well, with all cases, 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.039 when a plea is entered, a judge makes clear that 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.559 whatever deal that defendants have with the government, it's something 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:02.880 that does not find the court of that the judge 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.599 will not make up its mind until it reads the 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.000 pre sentence report. But the judge is also mindful of 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.520 the fact that in order to get these plea deals, 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.840 it's important that defendants be able to rely upon the 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.920 government's recommendation with some degree of certainty. So here I 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.800 think we can expect that the judge to ultimately follow 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:25.560 the government's recommendation to sentence these defendants to the terms 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.960 that were agreed upon by the government. What's one of 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.720 the things that is unusual here is that typically the 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.920 government will agree to a range of sentencing. In other words, 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.960 the federal sentencing guidelines has ranges of months that apply 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.840 to a particular sentence based upon various factors. In this case, 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.360 in order to entice these defendants to take this plea, 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.160 the government is taking this somewhat unusual step of recommending 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.720 a particular sentence of two months and five months as 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.560 opposed to a range of sentencing. The government is also 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:59.240 leaving open the defendant's ability to advance claims of ineffective 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:05.440 assistance of council and prosecutorial misconduct. Is that unusual, Yes, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.040 that is unusual. Usually the way plea deals read is 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.320 that you enter your plea and you give up your 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.920 right to challenge the sentence unless it's outside the agreed 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.400 upon range that you have agreed to the government with. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.320 But in this case they've thrown that in. I think 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.800 it really is more window dressing than it is any 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.680 real right for the defendants. The likelihood that there will 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.280 be an ultimate finding of any kind of prosecutorial misconduct 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:33.960 is remote, and it's even more remote that there could 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.560 be some finding of ineffective assistance of counsel given the 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.520 lawyers who were involved in the case. So it really 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.200 is something that the defendants are holding out there in 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.840 case something might come up later in the case that 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.160 shows that prosecutors acted in some way that was inappropriate, 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.160 but it's unlikely, ultimately tat to have any real effect 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.160 on the outcome of this case or the amount of 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.400 time that these two defendant servant jail. Is it possible 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.720 that they will serve less time because of COVID nineteen, 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.160 while it's possible that they could serve less time due 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.960 to COVID nineteen, And it's possible that the judge could 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.400 sentence them to something less than what they've agreed to 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.439 with the government. In this case, given the high degree 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.160 of publicity and the fact that this had been fought 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.720 out between the government and the defense for over a year, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.440 these are sentences that are, in the eyes of some people, 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.520 on the low end of where these cases should have 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.400 ended up. I think it's more likely than the judge 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.160 will sentence them to exactly the amount of time that 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.840 they've agreed to with the government and that they will 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.880 serve the full amount of that time. The COVID nineteen 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.600 issue is obviously something that the parties are aware of 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.400 going into this deal. So for the defense to then 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.720 argue that because of COVID nineteen they should serve less time. 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.800 Seems to be somewhat disingenuous, and I think it's unlikely 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.280 just to weigh the court. As we get closer and 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.680 closer to two trials that are scheduled for October and January, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.400 is it likely that we'll see more plea deals. Well, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.960 that's certainly what the government is hoping for us here. 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.080 Usually you see a bit of a domino effect as 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.080 you see defendants begin to plead guilty. But each of 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.719 these cases is somewhat different. Factually, the charges stem from 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.880 paying off the mastermind of this case in order to 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.600 get their children into school, some of them posing as athletes, 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.400 some of them just making large contributions to this foundation 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.480 that were really disguised brides to Mr Singer. So each 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.120 case is factually different. But on the other hand, there's 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.160 certainly gonna be some defendants who are sitting out there 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.800 looking at what's going on and saying, if Lori Laughlin 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.520 and her husband are deciding to plead guilty, given all 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.960 the money that they have, and given the high price 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.040 legal talent that was representing them, maybe they should consider 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.920 doing the same, you know, Bob. Also, what might make 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.880 some defendants want to plead is that they're going to 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:57.240 be tried in groups, and that is a disadvantage for 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.120 the defendants. Yeah, that is one of the key motions 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.440 that was made early on in this case by all 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.800 the defendants, the fact that they were indicted in groups 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.760 and going to be tried with dozens of other parents 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.960 that they had absolutely no contact with whatsoever. The government 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:19.200 theory behind that case was because the common mastermind, William Singer, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.760 was the one who brought them all together, that they 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.640 could use him as a cooperating witness in one trial 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.520 against all of the parents. The prosecution here was trying 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.160 to avoid having Mr Singer testify over and over again 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.880 in repeated trial. During each trial, he would likely give 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.720 testimony that was slightly different from the trial before, and 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.400 that would be of defense lawyers ammunition to try to 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.080 attack his credibility. So they were indicted in groups, and 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.560 there's two large groups who are still set to go 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.559 to trial in this case. That does place the defendants 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.400 in a bit of a disadvantage because there's something to 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.120 argue that because one parent might be guilty, then they 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.120 all might be guilty. That's called prejudice will spill over something. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.640 Defense lawyers try to argue against all the time. Usually, 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.520 if there's a reason for the judge to uphold the 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.040 way the government has charged the case, he'll go along 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.520 with prosecutors and allow these parents to be tried in groups. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.959 If that continues to be the case, if the judge 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.240 does not agree to separate these trials out into individual cases, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.559 that makes it more likely that the parents will ultimately 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.679 plead guilty. Why do you think the prosecutors never indicted 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.360 any of the students here? I mean, in some of 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.240 these cases, the students had to have known that they 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:36.080 don't row, and they're applying to school as rowing stars. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.679 Why aren't the kids being indicted as well? Well, that's 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.800 a good question. A lot of people who looked at 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.080 this case have asked the question why none of the 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.720 students were charged, or frankly, why none of the schools 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.280 were charged. I think what went on here on the 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.440 side of the prosecutors was that they made a discretionary 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.920 call that, even though there might have been evidence to 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.679 charge the students, that ultimately these were kids who were 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.160 being guided by their and their parents were the ones 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.320 who were paying the money. The parents were the ones 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.240 who were having the conversations with Miter Singer and with 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.160 others and who were guiding their children, and they just 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.880 made the discretionary call that they were just going to 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.040 charge their parents and not charge the students. They also 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:16.920 have to know that if they charge the students, it 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.880 was going to be increasingly difficult to get people to 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.040 plead guilty. In these cases, the parents would likely fall 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:24.720 on the sword in order to protect their kids. Then 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.800 that's exactly what we're seeing happening here. Thanks Bob. That's 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.760 Robert Mints, a partner of Carter in English Virus, close 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.200 to a turning point in its legal battle over the 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.839 weed killer round up. According to Bloomberg sources, Buyer has 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.319 reached verbal agreements to resolve a substantial portion of an 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:46.120 estimated one thousand cancer lawsuits over use of its roundup. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.199 The company denies that roundup or glipa state causes cancer, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.719 a position backed by the Environmental Protection Agency, but altogether, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.840 juries from three trials ordered the company to pay a 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.920 combined two point four billion dollars and damages. Judges later 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:06.040 slashed those awards to one million. The deals which have 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.000 yet to be signed, to cover and estimated fifty thousand 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.080 to eighty five thousand suits. They're part of a ten 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.800 billion dollar plan to end the costly legal battle. Joining 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.120 me is Eric Gordon, a professor at the Raw School 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.560 of Business at the University of Michigan. Eric, why settle 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.200 now after battling this for two years? Well, buyer would 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.240 like to settle and get it behind it because it's 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.320 been a big weight on the stock price of buyer. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.160 Buyer stock price has gone down something like one third 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.800 since they bought Monsanto, So the CEO, who was the 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.320 person who actually did them on Santo o'deal probably wishes 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.120 he didn't would like to just put it behind him, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.120 move on, get the uncertainty off the back of the 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:54.520 stock price. How much certainty is there when this covers 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.000 reportedly an estimated fifty thousand to eighty five thousand cases 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.520 out of a total of hundred and twenty five thousand, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.760 So it seems like there's still a lot of uncertainty there. Yeah, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:06.760 I think the settle that they're going to have to 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.320 do something about most of the rest of the cases. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:14.240 Although if they knock out the big cases, meaning the 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.720 cases that are being handled by the big gun plaintiffs 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.800 lawyers um and all, they have left is the cases 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.360 that are being run by the lesser known, lesser sort 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:30.760 plaintiffs lawyers. It'll be easier to settle those those remaining 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.600 cases because those are countries just don't have the resources, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.680 and I think they will jump on trying to get 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.920 their cases settled too. So there are a handful of 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.320 lawyers that are holding out. Do lawyers who hold out 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.400 fair better or worse? You know, the lawyers who hold 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.560 out not going to do any better than the rest 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.440 of the lawyers because any settlement is going to include 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.320 all of them. Belayers made it clear that it's motivations 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.360 for settling is to get this behind them. They're the 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.120 ones who hold out. Might at most get a better 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.400 deal for everybody, um, but what they might get is 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:13.240 just a delay. And given the uncertainty about COVID, the 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.840 delay might mean a worse deal for all of the plaintiffs. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.600 So let's talk a little bit about COVID before we 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.880 go on. Buyer backed out of some of the deals 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.560 due to COVID nineteen. How did that play in. Well, 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.400 that's put a little bit of fear into some of 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.160 the plaintiffs, bar not all of them, but the COVID 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:38.600 UH COVID has changed everything. Now the prospect is paying 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:43.480 out the reported eight billion dollars of cash is less 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.479 and less attractive to buyer. I mean, there's no companies 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.800 have been scrambling within CBM or Boeing companies and scrambling 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.720 to get their hands on cash. So the value of 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.200 getting the cases behind them versus having to shovel out 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.040 eight billions dollars starting to look less attractive to buyer. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:07.600 So there's some pressure on both sides to get this settle. Reportedly, 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:13.080 Buyer used the threat of bankruptcy in settlement talks. Is 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.600 that something that companies often do. Yes, companies often do 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.680 it in the in these mass sport things. Um, we 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.360 saw it in a story you and I have talked 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:29.600 about a bunch the New Farmer case involving the opioid crisis. Um. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:34.480 If if you go into bankruptcy, uh, then all of 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.400 these claims are unsecured claims, which in a human's language 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.040 means they get paid at the at the back of 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.879 the line with all of the other trade vendors and 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.960 everybody else, and there might not be much for them. 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:52.120 So it's a pretty it's a pretty scary threat. Although 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:57.040 I'm not sure anybody really thinks Buyer would put Monsanto 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.800 into bankruptcy, But if they did, it changes everything. The 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.160 range of settlements is so wide, from a few million 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.359 to a few thousand. How do the settlements get worked 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.840 out moments? Is it whose lawyer is better, or is 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.560 it whose claim is better? It's a little of each. Unfortunately, 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.080 part of it doesn't depend on how feared your lawyer is. 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:23.760 So some members of the plaintiff's bar are are intensely feared. Uh, 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.679 they probably get a little bit more for their clients. 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.480 But they also will be looking at the individual cases. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:35.040 And we're looking at two things, the severity of the 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.639 injury suffered by the plaintiffs, and to how strong is 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:44.720 the evidence that the plaintiffs injury was substantially caused by 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.040 round up. So in some cases you have a groundskeeper 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.879 who hangs in using roundup for thirty years, Well, that 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.040 case seems a little stronger, assuming you buy the idea 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.119 that round up is timeful. Case of somebody using it 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.520 for thirty years seems stronger than somebody who puts it 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.040 in their backyard, you know, once a year for the 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:13.159 last five years. Let's talk a little bit about Ken Feinberg, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.760 who is a renowned mediator. What was his role in this? 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:24.320 So Ken plays the role of an honest broker. When 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.639 you're trying to settle a case, each side poses and 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.720 postures and rattles sabers, and the other side discounts half 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:38.399 of what they say. Having a neutral mediator who is 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:43.160 well respected, nobody who's better respected at this than Ken Feinberg, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.880 who can say things to both sides and and they 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.960 will listen and they will believe it is very valuable. 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.879 Think of the things he's been in June, you know, 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.400 most recently the Boeing seven seven MAX, the Penn States 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.280 and Dusky Sex and O v W g M with 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.200 the ignition switched all the way back to the BP 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.600 deep Water. So he knows how to deal with cases 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:15.200 that are very complicated, cases that involve a lot of emotion. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:20.280 So he's the right guy. I'm also curious about the 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.960 transparency here. The estimate is that there are at least 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.440 a hundred and twenty five thousand claims. That's more than 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:32.600 twice the amount of cases Buyer has previously disclosed. So 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:38.159 why this lack of disclosure of all these cases? Well, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.240 the fifty two thousand number, which appeared to I think 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.119 in the April April of this year quarterly statement that 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:48.399 buyer files, Um, what are the cases, according to buyer 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.440 are cases that have actually been filed in US courts. 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.080 How you get from fifty two thousand to two or 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.520 two and a half times that number is by making 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.520 an s in that of all of the cases that 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.760 have not been filed but that could be filed or 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.800 will be filed at some point in the future. Some 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.560 buyer's point of view as well, we don't really know 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.200 how to estimate that number. That's a guess. Uh sure 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.560 it's going to be more than fifty two thousands. But 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:21.600 the number we know for sure is is the number 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.200 that has actually been filed. In the Bloomberg story, did 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:30.439 it refer to some lawyers not filing cases under an 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.680 agreement with buyer? Yeah, Timlow had a good story, Jeffiel, 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.760 We had a good story that I saw in the terminal. 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.160 So apparently there is an agreement, and this is not uncommon, 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:45.720 an agreement that while settlement is going on, everybody who 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.119 had not everybody, but you know, the people who agree 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:52.520 to this, don't just keep wasting your money and our 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.199 money filing lawsuits. If there's a settlement, you will be 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.840 included in it, but you don't have to go to 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:03.240 the expensive filing the lawsuit. We don't have to go 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.320 to the expense of answering it. That will need to 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.560 actually more money on the table for settlement. So it's 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.040 not a bad IDEA Buyer is still going forward with 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.639 appeals of early cases. It lost. Is that usual in 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:23.080 a settlement like this, Well, they can't abandon their appeals. Um. 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.920 They have to show the other side that if there 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.399 is no settlement, um, we are going to put you 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.280 through the appeals process every time you win a case. 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:37.639 So that's part of buyer showing its strength uh to 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.360 the plaintiff's attorneys. So that's part of the everybody kind 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:45.479 of posturing to show the other side the consequences of 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.639 not reaching a settlement. So Buyer has set aside reportedly 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.240 ten billion dollars for this altogether eight billion for these 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:56.760