1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: In this podcast, we're going to talk frankly but sensitively 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: about issues some people might find disturbing, including rape and suicide. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: If you or someone you know is suicidal in the 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: US down nine to eighty eight, check out this podcast 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: notes page for information on LGBT plus mental health resources 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: in your community. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: During the pandemic, I began this tradition of going on 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: long walks, and going on the walk is one of 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: the few things that will actually lower your blood pressure, 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: and I definitely need to do that and clear my 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: head and prepare for well, what we're about to do here. 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: You see, I live near the famous Sunset Strip. Actually, 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: let's walk down the strip. 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 3: Now. 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: If you walk rather than drive, you get a whole 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: different point of view. You see all these beautiful cars, 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: pretty people. There's palm trees, glitz, and a lot of dogs. 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: I'm walking past a bunch of billboards. Sunset Boulevard is 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 2: one of the most expensive places to put a billboard. 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: And actually where this mall is, there's a gym where 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: all the porn stars work out. And before it was 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: a mall, it was Schwabs where Lana Turner was discovered. 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: Now just up the street is Laurel Canyon, where Joni Mitchell, 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: Buffalo Springfield, the Mamas and the papas live their best life. 25 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: And I'm walking near the Chateau Marmont, which is on 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: the opposite side of the street. On this side of 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: the street, there's just a hole in the ground. It 28 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: used to be the Garden of Alla, where everyone from 29 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: f Scott Fitzgerald to Frank Sinatra got their freak on 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: the chateau, though across the street is where Lindsay Lohan 31 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: racked up a forty six thousand dollars tab and where 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: John Belushi and Helmet Newton died. And if you walk 33 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: down the hill, all things just get more ordinary. One 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: hundred year old California bungalow, it's got to love them. 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: And they are these boxy apartment buildings that they call 36 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: dingbats here mixed with new buildings that don't actually fit in. 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: It's all, you know, typical Los Angeles, old and new, 38 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: high and low. Well, I have finally reached my destination. 39 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: This could be any apartment building in West Hollywood. There 40 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: are actually fifteen thousand rent controled apartments in the city. 41 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 2: But upstairs is that one apartment this street, this building, 42 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: all of it unremarkable in almost every way, well unless 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: you know what happened here. I'm standing in front of 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: one two three four North Laurel Avenue. It is a 45 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: pretty street by West Hollywood standards, But this is Hollywood. Actually, 46 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 2: this is West Hollywood. That distinction is super important because 47 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: this is a city all of its own. It's actually 48 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: the largest gay city per capita in the US. Hollywood 49 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: or West Hollywood, in Tinseltown, nothing is exactly as it appears. 50 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: When you step behind the velvet rope and turn off 51 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: the cleeg lights, you'll uncover a world that is definitely 52 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: much darker. It was harrowing. 53 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 4: It was the most disturbing facts I can remember reading 54 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 4: in my life. I was speechless. The accounts of the 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 4: victims were just truly shocking. I had never seen anything 56 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 4: quite like this, and I don't think I ever will again. 57 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: The woman you just heard, she's a federal prosecutor, And 58 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: I got to tell you when a federal prosecutor shocked, 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: you know, it's a real story. Now, what happened here 60 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: at one two three four North Laurel Avenue, on this 61 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: pretty West Hollywood street is more than just the story. 62 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: It's as dark as you can get in a city 63 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: that has a pretty dark history. But if you're gay 64 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: and black like me, this is not a news story. 65 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: There's been John Wayne Gacy. There was also Jeffrey Dahmer, 66 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: but in West Hollywood, we've had our own version. On 67 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: the streets, they called him doctor Kravorkian. His real name 68 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: is ed Buck. 69 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 5: He seemed to have no remorse for what he was doing. 70 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 5: He was putting people's lives in danger on a regular basis, 71 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 5: and not just people, but specifically vulnerable communities, and just 72 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 5: really what he was doing was pretty horrific. 73 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: He would get angry, he would get nasty, he would 74 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: get the violin. 75 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 6: So this was a part of his personality. 76 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 4: He didn't think that those were people who would be 77 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 4: trusted and believed over him, who held himself out as 78 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 4: this political donor and this powerful person who hung photos 79 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 4: of himself with powerful people in his apartment where he 80 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 4: was victimizing these people, I mean they were political figures, 81 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 4: quite literally, lording over his victims. 82 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: Those are two of the prosecutors and one of the 83 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: reporters who covered the case. This story changed many of 84 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: the lives of the people involved in it, but what's crazy, 85 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: And to be honest, what's fucked up is just how 86 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: ordinary the story of ed Buck feels. Now, what's not 87 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: ordinary is how the community responded. What's not ordinary is 88 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: this podcast. I'm Sinari Glinton. I'm going to be your host, 89 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: me and my team of journalists, researchers and producers. We're 90 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: going to walk you through a story that says Hollywood 91 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: as Marilyn Monroe, John Belushi, Bill Cosby or the Sunset struggle, 92 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: you see for every young starlet or celebrity or influence 93 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 2: or a singer who comes here to make a living, 94 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,559 Speaker 2: there is another darker, shadowy side of this city. 95 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 6: They said that Buck is quote a predator with no 96 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 6: regard for human life, who gave the victims dangerously large 97 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 6: doses of narcotics. 98 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 2: We're going to take you inside the apartment of ed Buck. 99 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: Some people have called it the gates of Hell, and 100 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,119 Speaker 2: we're going to try to tell the stories of why 101 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: these particular black lives, the lives of Jamel Moore and 102 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: Timothy Ding, why they matter. And here's the key. We're 103 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: going to try to make sense of why it took 104 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 2: so damn long to bring ed Buck to justice. Let's 105 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: listen to a candlelight vigil held here on August eighteen, 106 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, for one of the victims, James Goodford. 107 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 7: To cover this family, it just shouldn't have happened. My 108 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 7: son found police reports, his be cried out to so 109 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 7: many people in It's crazy how the whole entire situation 110 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 7: was handled. My son's dead, and five days later the 111 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 7: case is closed. I just want justice. That's it. 112 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 4: Now. 113 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: The producers and I have asked ourselves a question, what 114 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: does justice look like? How do you tell a story 115 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: that needs to be told without causing more pain to 116 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: the victims or sensationalizing the trauma of gay black men 117 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: like myself. This is supposed to be a true crime podcast, 118 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: but to be honest, as a black man and as 119 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: a veteran of public radio, I hate true crime. And 120 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: it's important that we tell you what happened. You know facts, 121 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: but we're not looking to wallow and gore. And if 122 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: you want to hear laughing that human tragedy, well this show, 123 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: ain't it. I've spent a lifetime telling stories, mainly public 124 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: radio ones. One of our favorite course products. 125 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: In your Scenarios and Pierre Scenario, Glinton is in Japlin 126 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: in Pira. Scenari Glinton reports from the Capital, and PR 127 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: Scenario Clinton reports from Detroit. 128 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: Sabrina Fulton and Tracy Martin are the parents of Trayvon Martin. 129 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 8: Even if Scenari is the only one who's doing it 130 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 8: like that impulse of just like I'm just gonna go 131 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 8: for it. I'm going to say something that's ridiculous and 132 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 8: just see if it works. I mean, you know, in 133 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 8: the movies, that's what gets the girl in the movies, 134 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 8: that's what makes you a hero. 135 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: That last voice you heard was Ira Glass. He's the 136 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: voice everyone tried to emulate when podcasts where brand spanking new, 137 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: and his influence is definitely all over my work. But 138 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: what's happening to black folks or gay or trans people 139 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: in America and the globe? I really needed to do 140 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: journalism differently. The last thing we need in this age 141 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: is another polite, fucking public radio report. This is shattering 142 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: the system. As Oursie Lord said, the Master's tools will 143 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: never dismantle the Master's house. So we're going to do 144 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: something different. The only way that I know to shatter 145 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 2: the system is to shine a light, do the work, 146 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted, give voice to 147 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: the voiceless. We're going to look at crimes that tell 148 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 2: a larger story, help connect the dots, give you context, 149 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: and maybe together we can learn how to shatter the system. 150 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: But first, how West Hollywood is really just like your 151 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: hometown but not that's after a break. One of the 152 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: most powerful testimonials you'll hear in this story is first 153 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: person from the first victim, Jamel Moore. His diary, in 154 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 2: many ways, is the reason this story could be told. Now. 155 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: We want to bring his words to you in an 156 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: audio form, so we hired an actor. Let's take a lesson. 157 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 9: Ed Buck is the one to think. He gave me 158 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 9: my first injection of crystal men. It was painful, but 159 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 9: after all the troubles, I became addicted to the pain 160 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 9: and the fantasy. 161 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: It's that diary and those words that launched an investigation. 162 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 2: That's what made us want to do shattering the system. 163 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: Jamel Moore predicted his own death at the hands of 164 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: a man who lived at this address one two three 165 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 2: four North Laurel. Jamel's name, though, isn't as widely known 166 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: as ay Avon Martin or George Floyd let's listen to 167 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 2: a visual for Jamel Moore that took place near where 168 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: I'm standing. 169 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 9: Allowed them to know that God and God is still 170 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:12,479 Speaker 9: in control. 171 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 7: You fight for the ones you love and I will 172 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 7: not stop until I get justice. Ed Buck needs to 173 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 7: be held to accountability for all the things that he's done. 174 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: It would take the death of another black gay man, 175 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: Timothy Dean, and an unlikely group of women to get justice. 176 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: And as we tell that story, there's also a story 177 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: here about how local government works and doesn't, how the 178 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: sex apps have changed the nature of gay life, media representation, 179 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: what happens or does not happen when a black person 180 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: goes missing, the opioid epidemic, and so much more. Jameel 181 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: Moore went to ed hooks of Turban on Rural Avenue 182 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 2: and ed injected into it's been killed. It was really horrific. 183 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 10: Yeah, a young man whose friends who I've talked to 184 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 10: say there was so much more to Jamel Moore. 185 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: That's Hank Scott. He is a pioneer in local journalism 186 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: and for years he's one of the few people who 187 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 2: took West Hollywood seriously. He's one of the dozens of 188 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: people that we're going to interview for this series. Now, 189 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: if we're going to make sense of one of the 190 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: most bizarre stories in Hollywood history, we're going to have 191 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: to give you context history. So we talked to a 192 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: roommate of one of the victims who made us think 193 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 2: not just about life in a neighborhood, but life in 194 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: America itself. 195 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 11: I don't want to offend anybody, but you know, in the 196 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 11: American society it does feel there is only one god, 197 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 11: and the only god that there is money. You know, 198 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 11: everybody is so attached to money, and you know, especially 199 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 11: in la you can see a lot of behavior that 200 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 11: you know, it's like you want to hang out with 201 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 11: people that can progress your career, that can open doors 202 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 11: for you, that can get you to the right party. 203 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: There are so many bizarre twists and connections to making 204 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: the season. For example, let's listen to part of the 205 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 2: interview that I did with Ludlow b. Query. He's a 206 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: former NAACP intern. He's now a defense attorney for Ed 207 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: Buck and he's the co counsul to Christopher Darden. You 208 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: may remember Darden because he prosecuted O. J. Simpson for 209 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: the murders of Ron Goldman. And Nicole Brown Simpson. He 210 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: lost that case. I have to ask the question that 211 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: I feel like the average black Angelino might say, which 212 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: would probably be something like, look, Chris Darden on the 213 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 2: wrong side yet again. I mean that is that's definitely 214 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 2: tell me that I'm wrong there. 215 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 3: If you look at it outside of the criminal justice 216 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 3: sphere or the criminal justice space, then I can understand 217 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 3: why people would say that. Yes, I mean ed Buck 218 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: is ay he was doing horrible things that resulted in 219 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 3: the deaths of two black men. He's accused of exploiting 220 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 3: black men in particular. 221 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: Exploiting black men in particular queer men. The death of 222 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: these men so close to my demographic, so close to 223 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: my actual home, and this all requires something different. You know. 224 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: A fan wrote to me that it never occurred to 225 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 2: him that I was gay, or for that matter, black. 226 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: That idea has genuinely come to horrify me. It occurred 227 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: to me that so many gay journalists sanitize gay life. 228 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: I know I avoided doing gay stories, and part of 229 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: this season is to tell the part of the story 230 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: that we gay men leave out. I've never been into 231 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: ed Buck's apartment, but I've been in apartments that are 232 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: not too far off. Later in the season, we'll talk 233 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: to a prosecutor who is using new tools to find 234 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: the next head buck. 235 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 12: I think it's really important not to accidentally do any 236 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 12: blame shifting or even sound like we're doing any blame shifting. 237 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 12: It is a great thing that we've reached a place 238 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 12: where gay people can be crowd and can be meeting 239 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 12: easily and online and non in secret. That is fantastic. 240 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 12: The problem is that there are bad people out there 241 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 12: exploiting it. 242 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: The point is to expose the way that people use 243 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: or abuse the system, not to select shame or blame 244 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: the victims or turn anyone into a boogeyman. But we've 245 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: got to spill the tea and show the part of 246 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 2: gay life, gay black life that isn't RuPaul's drag race. 247 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: There's another side to gay life that isn't singing Padam Padam. 248 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 4: On the way to pilates, he would dangle a disition 249 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: payments for people to take more drugs than they were 250 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 4: used to, or to slam or inject drugs when they 251 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 4: would otherwise have chosen only to smoke them. He would 252 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 4: put them in underwear and have them pose with very 253 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 4: specific lighting that he orchestrated in the background and take 254 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 4: photos of them, hundreds thousands of photos of them that 255 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 4: we found on his hard drives. It was just very specific, 256 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 4: and if you heard it only from one person, it 257 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 4: would be almost impossible to believe. But after the number 258 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 4: of accounts that I heard, I could practically finish the 259 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 4: victim's sentences because I was so attuned to this ritual. 260 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: We tell the story of what it takes to bring 261 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: down a wealthy, gay, white political donor, and how can 262 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: black queer men find justice in Boycetown. That and a 263 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 2: whole lot After a break, Welcome to Shattering the System. 264 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Scenari Glinton. For years, I've walked past 265 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: one two three FOURD North Laurel Avenue, our neighborhood polling 266 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 2: place was actually across the street from this address. Apartment seventeen, though, 267 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 2: was the home of Ed Buck. Actually, you know what 268 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: names tell you a lot. Edward Bernard Peter Buck Melter. 269 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 2: He lived here for decades, essentially from the very beginning 270 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: of West Hollywood when it became a city. So what 271 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: we're going to have to do for this show is 272 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: kind of start at the end, because in twenty twenty one, 273 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 2: ed Buck was convicted of two counts of distribution of 274 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 2: methan fetamine resulting in death, four counts of distribution of 275 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: methan fetamine, one count of maintaining a drug involved premises, 276 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: and two counts of enticement to travel in interstate commerce 277 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 2: for prostitution. He was sentenced to thirty years in a 278 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 2: federal prison. In April of twenty twenty two, he was 279 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 2: convicted of giving fatal doses of meth amphetamine to two 280 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: gay black men. Two gay black men died in ed 281 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: Buck's apartment after he injected them with meth That's the 282 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: end of the story. But this podcast is about uncovering 283 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 2: hidden systems, remembering the forgotten and the forgotten heart. And 284 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: it's often too easy for the media to run with 285 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 2: just one version of who a victim is, to forget 286 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 2: that these people were deeply complex individuals. Let's listen to Octavia. 287 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: He was Timothy Dean's roommate. Timothy died at the hands 288 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: of ed Buck, but before that terrible night, he lived 289 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: in an incredibly rich life. 290 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 11: You know, I want to contribute to leaving the right 291 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 11: memory about him, and I want to say a good 292 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 11: memory the right memory about him. I think that this 293 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 11: is the story of a fifty year old man that 294 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 11: went through hell, purgatory and heaven, experienced life to the fullest, 295 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 11: made a lot of mistakes and a lot of right choices, 296 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 11: but always got back on his feet and try to 297 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 11: change his future for the better. 298 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: Why did it take so long for ed Buck to 299 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: be arrested or tried. I'll tell you what. I'll give 300 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: you a quick answer. Black bodies, actually, black queer bodies 301 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: do not matter until they do. In the queer world. 302 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 2: Black bodies are curiosities, commodities, toys, objects of hate. Did 303 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: I say black bodies, I mean our bodies, my body. 304 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: I am not surprised that this wasn't what the network's 305 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 2: call breaking news. If these men were any other color, 306 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have to make a case for the national 307 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 2: or international implications of these lives that were lost. But 308 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 2: we will, and in the process, we'll show you the 309 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 2: systems that fail us, all the systems that make this 310 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 2: tragedy possible, Systems like the one run by the former 311 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: LA County District Attorney Jackie Lacy. Now these are protesters 312 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: demanding her ouster after she failed to prosecute at Buck. 313 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: You may not have thought much about West Hollywood. After all, 314 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: it's a relatively new city, carved out of the vastness 315 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 2: of La County in nineteen eighty four by an unlikely 316 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: coalition of gays, Lesbians, Russian immigrants, and rent control advocates. 317 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: I've lived here for ten years. Maybe you haven't thought 318 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: about it, but West Hollywood is where if you've ever 319 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: thought about moving to Hollywood, the image you have in 320 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: your mind, that's of West Hollywood, The Sunset Strip, the 321 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 2: Chateau Marmont, the whiskey of Go Go. That's all considered 322 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 2: what we lovingly call wee hoo ed Buck, or at 323 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: least his story is widely known here in West Hollywood, 324 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 2: and I just want to stop and talk to a 325 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: couple of neighbors to get some impressions. Hey, do you 326 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: mind if I asked your question or two? I'm a reporter. 327 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: How long have you lived in West Hollywood? Twenty five years? 328 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 2: You know, how would you describe West Hollywood to someone 329 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: who has never been to Hollywood. 330 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 10: It's very vivid, it's a lot of different it's very diversified. 331 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 10: A lot of different people live here. Also, young people 332 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 10: that are some what some are gay, and they used 333 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 10: to be more gay percentage than now. Now it's very mixed. 334 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 10: I would say it's a quiet, safe neighborhood. It's convenient. 335 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: The walkability is what you're like. 336 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 10: Yeah, oh yes, everything's walking distance. 337 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 2: This is likely where your favorite star lived before they 338 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: were famous, or lives now, or in some cases, where 339 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: they were found dead. The difference between West Hollywood and 340 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 2: the idea of West Hollywood is the dream of the 341 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: thing and its reality. You know, like, literally less than 342 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: one hundred yards away from here, I saw Keanu Reeves 343 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: driving looking exactly like Keanu Reeves in his Porsche. My 344 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 2: favorite one is seeing Paul McCartney driving down Fountain in 345 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: an Anti Corvette, singing to himself, this is the dream 346 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: of Hollywood. Tell you what. I've never reported on Hollywood, 347 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 2: but I've always wondered what would happen if we say, 348 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: took the rigor that we turned on Chicago politics and 349 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: put in on Hollywood. Hollywood is this crazy thing, y'all 350 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 2: that distracts people. The desire to be in Hollywood is 351 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: what Hollywood is really about. For every Hollywood story, there's 352 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: often a world that is so much darker here's ed 353 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: Buck's defense attorney Ludlow query again, the La is a jungle. 354 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: You got to be careful. 355 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: You know, this city is very deceptive because it's beautiful, 356 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 3: the weather's beautiful, the people are beautiful. But there is 357 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 3: so much darkness in this city. And it's always been there. 358 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 3: It's always been there. You got to be careful. 359 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 2: That's what we're going to try to unpack here this season. 360 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: And after a career of being polite and following the 361 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: rules of journalism, we've gathered an amazing team to help 362 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 2: me look beyond the obvious. I've always thought the way 363 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: that Barack Obama must say he felt about Trayvon Martin, 364 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: well that's the way I feel about these men whose 365 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: lives ended in that Bucks apartment. I feel a responsibility. 366 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: And most news organizations don't want to talk about sex 367 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 2: or black men, or gay men, or about sex workers. 368 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: Let's listen to the former La County District Attorney Jackie Lacy. 369 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 6: We can't file a criminal case based on who has 370 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 6: the loudest voice and we. 371 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 2: Go out there and arrest him. 372 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 6: Now, the clock starts ticking, and it wouldn't be ethical 373 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 6: right now to arrest him until we really had the evidence. 374 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 5: And there were thousands of videos on his computer. 375 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: Ed Buck used the system because no one was supposed 376 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: to believe gay black men. He counted on a lack 377 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 2: of outrage. So what is this show? How are you 378 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: going to go about this? Well, specifically, this is a 379 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: story about homelessness, power, drugs, money, sex, race, sexual consent, HIV, stigma, 380 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: and all of those things that came to a head 381 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 2: in ed Buck's apartment one two three four North Laurel Avenue. 382 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 2: Just like there's a dark underbelly of Hollywood. This is 383 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: a story about two men who died tragically, but it's 384 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: also a story about strength and resilience, and that's why 385 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: we want to tell it. But let's be clear. The 386 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: only reason we are here today, and the only reason 387 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 2: ed Buck is finally in jail, is because one of 388 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: his victims predicted his own death and wrote about it. 389 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 2: Jamelle Moore died on a cold mattress with no one 390 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: there to comfort him, and nothing I can say in 391 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: this show will bring him back. However, he left the 392 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: diary to tell us his story. You see, Matthew Shepherd 393 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: was killed twenty five years ago this October, and the 394 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: murder of a gay white man in Wyoming was covered 395 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: wall the wall. They even did an HBO movie about 396 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: his life in this park where I've made my way 397 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,959 Speaker 2: to and these bagpipes that you hear are in tribute 398 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: to his memory. In many ways, Jamel Moore's words are 399 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 2: his memorial. So in our next episode, we hear from 400 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: a victim in his own words, the power of Jamel 401 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 2: Moore's diary. That's next Week. Shattering the System is a 402 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 2: production of Macro Studios and iHeart Podcasts. I'm Your Host 403 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: Scenari Englinton. Follow me at s O N A R 404 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: I one on Instagram. Our series executive producers are Charles King, 405 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: Asha Corpus, Win, Royo Reccio, Jonathan Hunger, Lindsay Hoffman, and 406 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 2: Scenari Lynton. That's Me. Our show is co written and 407 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 2: produced by Ralph Cooper, The Iird and ben Corey Jones. 408 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: Erica Rodriguez is our associate producer. Dana Conway is our 409 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: archival producer, Chris Mann is our audio engineer, and Lisa 410 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 2: Pollock is our consulting editor. Sound design and music provided 411 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: by Chris Mann with pod Shaper Special thanks to Karen 412 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 2: Griggsby Bates and Porsa, Mikas Robertson clips provided by TYT Network, 413 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,479 Speaker 2: The Young Turks, additional clips from Joville and Spectrum News. 414 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: We'll be back next week with they told him to 415 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 2: go away. That's on the next shatter in the system. 416 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.