1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: I'm George Severis and I'm Julia Clair, and this is 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: with the Kennedy Dynasty. Every week we go into one 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: aspect of the Kennedy story, and today, after two pretty 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: serious episodes, we thought it might be good to give 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: everyone a break with something light, which is why we 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: are talking about the nineteen ninety seven cult classic dark 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: comedy The House of Yes. 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: The film is starring a who's who of late nineties 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: young stars, including Parker Posey, Freddy Prince, Junior, Tory Spelling, 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: and even a bizarre cameo from Rachel Lee Cook. 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: Shout out to Rachel Lee Cook, we love you on 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: this podcast, We love You. It is directed by Mark Waters, who, 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: if you don't recognize the name, he went on to 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: direct such true classics of our youth as Mean Girls 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: and Freaky Friday, but this was his directorial debut. So 17 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: this was a classic late nineties sun dance movie. It 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: is a pitch black comedy about two twins with a 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: dark secret. 20 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: Have you ever seen the film? You probably won't be 21 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: surprised to learn that it was a box office bomb 22 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: and got mixed reviews, but Parker Posey won a Special 23 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: Recognition for Acting Award at Sundance. Unfortunately, Tory Spelling did 24 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: receive a Razzie nomination for her performance. 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: And listen, I obviously do write to the Risies every 26 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: year trying to contest their decision, but they haven't gotten 27 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: back to me yet. I will say she got that 28 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: Rosie nomination despite the fact that her father reportedly financed 29 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: the whole film. So nepotism can only get you so far, 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about 31 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: the Kennedy shout out to Jack Shlasberg's congressional run. Yes, So, 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: a review in Entertainment Weekly that we found says, the 33 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: House of Yes is knowingly overripe, a kitch melodrama that 34 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: dares to make incest sexy. And I just want to 35 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: say it is about. 36 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: It's about damn time. 37 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: It's about time an American film director to make incest sexy. 38 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: So that's the House of Yes. And before we get 39 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: into it, you might be wondering hearing us gab about 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: this Parker Posey film. We're talking Tory spellings, Rozzie, We're 41 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: talking incest, We're talking twins. You might be wondering what 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: does any of this have to do with the Kennedys. 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: Well, we'll tell you. The film opens and closes with 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: real archival footage of Jacqueline Kennedy giving her tour at 45 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: the White House, and it's interspliced with a young Rachel 46 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: Lee Cook spinning around in the very famous pink pillbox 47 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: hat Chanelle suit, and you're like, where is this going? 48 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Right, So archival footage of Jackiet I have to say 49 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: at this point, having done this podcast for so many months, 50 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: I've seen that footage so many times, and each time 51 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: I'm again blown away by the sheer physics of her hair. Yes, 52 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: it really looks like a plastic paper mache hat. I 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: would say that was placed on top overhead, and that's. 54 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: Why the ozone layer became so big. That's right, every 55 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: woman in America. Their hair didn't move. 56 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, people say the Kennedys are so influential. They're 57 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: also the cause of climate change, that's right, which RFK 58 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: then tried to stop, but he got distracted by vaccine. 59 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: And so there are pluses and minuses. There are highs 60 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: and lows of this family. 61 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: It's a who's who of major world problems, that's right, 62 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 2: exactly incest climate change. 63 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: Well, climate change is in fact made literal in the 64 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: film because it takes place during this big storm, a hurricane. 65 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: So the movie opens with archival footage of Jackie giving 66 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: the famous White House tour and a young Rachel Lee 67 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: Cook who plays in the film, a young Parker Posey. 68 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: And the character's name is Jackie Oh. 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: And that is what everyone calls her, and we learn 70 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: pretty early on that it's because she went to a party. 71 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: What kind of party did she go to? 72 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: And IDEs of March party, Yes, thank you, I mean 73 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: I think it's just our party on March fourteen. 74 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: Got it, okay? And so she went to an IDEs 75 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: of March party dressed as Jackie O specifically post assassination 76 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: aka she had like blood and brains on her, which 77 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: I just want to quickly shout out, you know my 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: dear friend who I've never met, Julia Fox, who had 79 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: that exact same costume for this year as Halloween. 80 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: Right, and Julia, your email is out from the pod. 81 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 2: We want you to come on. 82 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: I would absolutely you know, Julia Fox has actually been 83 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: mentioned before on this podcast about Greg Gardens, the documentary 84 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: and Julia Fox actually introduced the fiftieth anniversary screening of 85 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: Greg Gardens and talked about how influential it was to 86 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: her incredible comedic sensibility. So I think she is just 87 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: like a big fan of the Kennedys more Broccoli, so 88 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: she's always welcome on the pod. But yeah, So basically, 89 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: Jackie O went to this IDEs of March party as 90 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: a teen, just as actual Jackie O in this pink 91 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: chanel suit. And she clearly has some attachment to the 92 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: JACKIEO iconography and the jfk assassination iconography that will be 93 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: export further in the film, right. 94 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: And it's I clear very early in the film that 95 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: Jackie O the character is deeply mentally ill and is 96 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: on various pills and lives in this grand mansion in 97 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: Virginia with her cold and distant mother and her weird 98 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: younger brother, played expertly by Freddy Prince Junior. 99 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: That's straight and one of his first roles. One of 100 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: the things that the Wikipedia says, you know, not to 101 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: out myself as having done Wikipedia research, is that Freddy 102 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: Prince Junior shot in quick succession this film and I 103 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 1: know what you did last summer. 104 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: Wow. 105 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: And then I know what you did last summer was 106 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: of course his big breakout, so then his rising fame. 107 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, I was about to say help this movie, 108 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: but in fact it didn't because this movie ended up 109 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: bombing in the box office. 110 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, if you've seen this movie, you 111 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: gotta wonder why why would this movie play? 112 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: But I know why did a dark comedy about incest 113 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: and twin sest starring a bunch of up and coming 114 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: Hollywood stars bomb at the box despite everyone's best efforts. 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: I have to say this is a great Perker Posy performance, 116 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: which we will get in incredible So, yes, mental illness 117 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: in this film is treated in the way only a 118 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven comedy it can treat it. 119 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 2: I would call it a running gag. 120 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, the famous running gag of this Woman's 121 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: on pills. It was a real classic in the late nineties. 122 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: And this one's just a little extra crazy. 123 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: Yes. The undercurrent of the movie, of course, is that 124 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: all women are mentally ill. Jackie O, play by Perker Posey, 125 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: her brother played by Freddy Prince Junior, and their mother 126 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: are waiting for Jackie O's twin brother. There's three kids 127 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: in the family to come visit for Thanksgiving. 128 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: Yes, And if you've heard our descriptions so far, I 129 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: know what you're thinking. A classic Thanksgiving. 130 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: Film is this the family Stone? Is this? 131 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: Pieces of April, plainstrants and automobiles come. 132 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: This is a fun one to watch with the whole family, 133 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: maybe your parents. You have your Thanksgiving leftovers, you have 134 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: your stuffing in turkey sandwich or saying God, I'm in 135 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: the mood for something cozy. 136 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: And it takes place during a storm. There's candle, It's 137 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: exactly is cozy. 138 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: No, it is cozy. So then what happens Julia? The 139 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: brother arrives. 140 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 2: The brother arrives and he has a quote unquote friend 141 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: in tow and it turns out to be his fiance, 142 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: played by Tory Spelling, the. 143 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: One and only Tory Spelling. I said, hello, queen, it 144 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: is so good to see you. 145 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: Missed you girl. 146 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: So okay, Tory Spelling is playing this like there's a 147 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: real kind of Madonna horror thing happening with Tory Spelling 148 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: on the one side, and you know Nympho maniac twin 149 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: cest enthusiast Parker Posey on the other side. So that's right, Tory, 150 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: Tory Spelling is playing this like innocent blonde, you know, 151 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: grew up working class and now works at a donut 152 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: shop and just wants to get. 153 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: Married and lead a middle Pennsylvania. 154 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: She's from Pennsylvania, which Pennsylvania in this movie is used 155 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: as a slur. You'll say it. It's literally like like 156 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: you're from Pennsylvania. Oh sorry, sweetie? Are you okay? 157 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah? 158 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? 159 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: What's the line that's like, Pennsylvania is a place that's 160 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: just in your way when you're trying to get somewhere else. 161 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and then Barker Posey is like, I've never 162 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: met anyone who's been from Pennsylvania. So okay. I think 163 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: Tory Spelling is doing a passable job here, Julia, something 164 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: tells you like this movie less than I did. What 165 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: did you think of Tory Spelling's performance? 166 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: I mean, this whole movie is front to back insane 167 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: kook City, USA. There were parts of it that were 168 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: really fun. There was some really fun lines. All the 169 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: most fun lines are delivered by Parker Posy, who is 170 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: It's impossible for her to give a bad performance. She's 171 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: so funny. This is a role she was born to play. 172 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: It sort of invented Parker Posy. She's been another stuff before, 173 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: and this was probably like four or five years into 174 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: her career as a buzzy young actress. But there's something 175 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,239 Speaker 1: about this performance that to me defines a Parker Posy performance, 176 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: like the combination of complete pitch black delivery, the campiness, 177 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: the fact that she doesn't care what anyone else is doing. 178 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: She is there to deliver the line yes, and she's 179 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: like basically in a different movie than everyone else. 180 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: Yes, in a better movie. 181 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: Yes. 182 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, She's amazing. I love. There were again a number 183 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 2: of lines that really made me laugh that she delivered, like, oh, 184 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 2: if we're all going to start telling the truth, I'm 185 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: going to bed. 186 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean yes. It's one of the most incredible lines 187 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: in the movie, and that is when she is accused 188 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: of being spoiled, Like she she says something and then 189 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: Tory Spelling is like, well, I just think you're spoiled, 190 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: and you think this is going to be some big fight, 191 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: Inches goes, if people are gonna start telling the truth, 192 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to bed. 193 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: I mean yeah. When Freddy Prince Junior is accusingly probing 194 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: her about having an incestuous relationship with her twin brother. 195 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: She goes, don't be so bourgeois. 196 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: This is based on a play, we should say, and 197 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: it's sort of like. 198 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: Doubt, which I can't believe. 199 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: It almost did make more sense to me somehow, because 200 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yes, I could see like off off 201 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: Broadway audiences being like, well that was a gas yeah, 202 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: like an incest movie about the Kennedys, And there is 203 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: something very intentionally claustrophobic about it. I mean, they're in 204 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: this house the whole time. It's very quippy and dialogue heavy. 205 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean there's one sequence where it goes, are you 206 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: being wise? And then Jackie O goes, one day I 207 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: woke up wise, and he goes, one day I woke 208 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: up stupid, and she goes, what did you do? He goes, 209 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: I went back to bed. She goes, that was wise. 210 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: Like it's so it's so like quippy and almost sitcom 211 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: meets off Broadway play. 212 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, meets classic Hollywood comedy. We'll be back with more 213 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: United States of Kennedy after this break, and we're back 214 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: with more United States of Kennedy. 215 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: So, okay, the brother arrives with the girlfriend. It is 216 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: immediately announced that they are engaged, and you can tell 217 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: that from the moment that is revealed Jackie O is. 218 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: Pissed because she lets out a scream. 219 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: Yes, another like incredible Parker Posimoe or you know, all 220 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: the script said was like haha, and she's like got it. 221 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: I'm gonna like scream at the top of my lungs, 222 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: turn it into laughter and then like ad lib the next. 223 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: Line and it's gonna last for three minutes. 224 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: Yes. Over the course of this night, the tensions are rising. 225 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: It slowly revealed that the twins have this prior romantic relationship. 226 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: A very long lasting romantic sexual relationship. 227 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: Trumendic sexual relationship. 228 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: Part of the reason we find out that Parker Posey 229 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: was institutionalized and why she's on all these crazy meds. 230 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: She was institutionalized. Meanwhile, he's hoofs to New York. He's 231 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: totally fine. He's dating a donut chuck girl. 232 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it smells like powdered sugar. 233 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, but you can't marry a girl who smells 234 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: like powdered sugar. Another amazing line. And then, by the way, 235 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: this relationship started from the womb because as the most 236 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: oh my God informs us, they were born with Jackie 237 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: O holding Marty's penis, said it had never been received before. 238 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: They're in a bunch of medical textbooks. 239 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: So, Julia, would you like to explain to our listeners 240 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: what the twins relationship to the Kennedy assassination is. 241 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: No, I would not. 242 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: So basically, this movie is set in the eighties, so 243 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be like twenty or so years after 244 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: the assassination. 245 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 2: Supposed to be exactly twenty years from the assassination. 246 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: Twenty years from the assassination. And she obviously is obsessed 247 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: with Jackie. Oh, she's like doing this almost like Jackie 248 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: o drag with the preppy dress and the pearls, the outfit, 249 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: the hair, the hair, even though she talks sometimes becomes 250 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: sort of like mid Atlantic in this kind of funny way. 251 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: And basically, what we come to realize is that as 252 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out 253 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: the Kennedy assassination. And so she would have a gun 254 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: loaded with blanks, pretend to shoot him, and then as 255 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: Jackie would like, take him into her arms and kind of, 256 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: you know, hide his head in her bosom as the 257 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: same way Jackie did in her memory when the assassination happened. 258 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: And then the fireworks would start. 259 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: That's right, you know, I didn't want to give it 260 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: all away, but yes, it was, as I said afore 261 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: before a player. So obviously a bunch of other stuff happens, 262 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: you know. The Tory Spelling slowly finds out what she's 263 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: gotten herself into. She's obviously ver freaked out about it, 264 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: because she is normal, not the stigmatized twin sest. The 265 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: mom is, in her own weird way, both obviously disapproving 266 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: of the twin seest but also encouraging it because she 267 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: thinks that his sister is the only woman that is 268 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: good enough for him, that is good enough for him. Then, 269 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: through a series of machinations, Freddy Prince Junior, who plays 270 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: the kind of awkward young brother, ends up seducing Tory Spelling, 271 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: and she and her kind of chaotic confusion. In the 272 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: midst of finding out this dark secret about her fiance 273 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: sleeps with his brother. Then that is used to blackmail 274 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: her and turn Marty against her, and pretty much it. 275 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 2: Looks like maybe because Marty and JACKIEO have rekindled their romance. 276 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: That's right, Marty is their brother. He played by Josh Hamilton. 277 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've rekindled their romance, so JACKIEO thinks he'll stay 278 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: this time, he won't leave, And then there's a big 279 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: climactic scene. 280 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: And basically the final dilemma that Marty, who is the 281 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: brother that is choosing between his girlfriend and his sister, 282 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: the final dilemma that he has is is he going 283 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: to go back to New York with Tory Spelling and 284 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: continue their wonderful life of living in the West village 285 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: and reading the newspaper every day and taking baths together, 286 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: or is he going to stay home and in the 287 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: words of Tory Spelling, have children with webbed feet that 288 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: they can bury in the backyard. Another really wonderful image 289 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: from this field. And so he sort of is about 290 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: to leave with Tory Spelling, and then Jackie Oh says, 291 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: can we do it one last time? Meaning do the 292 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: reenactment of the assassination one last time? And he says yes, 293 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: And then we are led to believe that the gun 294 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: is in fact loaded this time, aka she kills him. 295 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: And then in the final scenes we see Tory Spelling 296 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: running out of the house. I can't remember she's covered 297 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: in blood or no, she's not. She's leaving the house, 298 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: like freaked out because her fiance was just murdered in 299 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: front of her by his sister slash X. And then 300 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: the final scenes we go back to the sort of 301 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: flashbacks where Rachel Lee Cook is playing young Jackie and 302 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: it just shows their first encounters. So, folks, that's the 303 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: plot of the House of Yes. 304 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: And as we said, it's a movie for the whole family. 305 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: You know, obviously it's not for the faint of heart. 306 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: But if you've gotten this far listening to a podcast 307 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: about the Kennedys, you know, I hate to say, we've 308 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: discussed much worse things than you know, safely contained twin 309 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: sest in a Virginia suburb. 310 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: It is really no worse than what the Kennedys themselves 311 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 2: have done. 312 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why I was like, okay, we need 313 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: a light episode after it two. I mean, we've talked 314 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: about a brutal murder. We've talked about botched military operation 315 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: that killed hundreds of people. We've talked about just horrible 316 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: trials and miscarriagters of justice. We've talked about RFK Junior 317 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: making sure all of us get measles and bumps. But 318 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: first of all, I would love to know your thoughts 319 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: about this movie. Did you have any history with it? 320 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: Did you know anything about it going in? 321 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about it. I realized that I 322 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 2: had seen the movie poster before. I had definitely seen it. 323 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if it was I'm sure that it 324 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: was in the Parker Posi collection on Criterion or something 325 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: like that. And I had definitely seen the movie poster, 326 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: but I had no conception of what it was. I 327 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: watched the trailer and I said, well, this movie looks insane, 328 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: and I'm glad I watched the trailer because I think 329 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: I would have been in for a rude awakening if 330 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: I had really gone in totally cold. But there were 331 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: definitely some really funny, stupid parts. But it felt long. 332 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: It's like an hour and twenty minutes, and it felt long. 333 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, just waiting for the finale to happen in the 334 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: entire time, and it's funny. I actually I had watched 335 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: it four months ago, and when I suggested doing it 336 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: for this episode, I had the dilemma of like, do 337 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: I rewatch or do I just read the Wikipedia and 338 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: remember what I watched four months ago. I'm glad I 339 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: rewatched it because I had honestly forgotten a lot of 340 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: the different plot points, but there was a part of 341 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: me that was like, is this the movie I want 342 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: to watch twice in four months? That said, I have 343 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: to say, I weirdly enjoyed it more the second time. 344 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: I think, because when you know what it is, it's 345 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: almost like taking the first sip of wine and it's 346 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: like bursting in your mouth, and then with the second 347 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: step you get all the nuances. I feel like with 348 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: my first watch, I was like, Wow, okay, so this 349 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: is really just about incest. And then with the second watch, 350 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: knowing that going in, I was able to appreciate the 351 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: performances more and appreciate the writing more. And I totally 352 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: see what you're saying about it being like a long 353 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: hour and twenty minutes, but there's something about the quippiness 354 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: of it and it was contained. It also really just 355 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: made me nostalgic for a different era of a mar 356 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: and indie film, Like just the fact that this movie 357 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: was at sun Dance. It had the stunt casting with 358 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: Tory Spelling. It was kind of banking on these like 359 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: semi unknown stars. Then it was a hit with like 360 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: the kooky people that would go to Sundance in nineteen 361 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: ninety seven, so then it got picked up by the 362 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: way produced by Miramax. So thank you, Harvey Wyan. 363 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 2: Thank you hard as always amazing contribution. I know we 364 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: say it every episode, but thank you, thank you Harvey. 365 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Have you ever seen The Day Trippers. 366 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 2: I was just going to say, you know, Parker Posey 367 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 2: had this run in the nineties of like Party Girl, 368 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: the Day Trippers, all these great I mean, even Dazed 369 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: and Confused was not like a big budget film at all, 370 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: and they just aren't making movies like that anymore. 371 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just something about this sort of like low budget. 372 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: It's almost like, you know, theater troupe putting up something 373 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: in like a black box theater or something. And so 374 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: it really did make me nostalgic for that era and 375 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: the big swings of it. I was kind of gloving 376 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: the second time around. I do want to talk about 377 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: the post a little bit because literally the poster for 378 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: me was such a clear memory seeing it a blockbust 379 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 1: check and being like, I think it might have been 380 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: the first time I ever saw a depiction of Jackie 381 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: Kennedy in that dress, Like, I think that was my 382 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: first reference, that's fine, and the same way that like, 383 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: I bet you. For some people that was like March 384 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: Simpson in the suit, and they were like who you know, Like, 385 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: because I hadn't seen you know. Again, not to age myself, 386 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: but nineteen eighty seven, I was very young. I had 387 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: not seen archival footage of and so I think I 388 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: was like, so, what is this pink suit? 389 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? 390 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: And then you know, you sort of start seeing it 391 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: around to pop culture, and obviously you connect the dots, 392 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: but there was something about it that was so appealing 393 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: to me, the cover of her holding the gun behind 394 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: her back and also smiling to Camra. It's the same 395 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: way I felt the first time I like became aware 396 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: of John Waters. I was like, oh, this is a 397 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: sensibility I'm interested in, Like whatever is happening here. There 398 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: is this twisted sense of humor and it's happening with 399 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: a wink, and it's kind of like written by and 400 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: for like smart gay people and like god, like I 401 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 1: want to be part of of that club like that. 402 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: And I really remember having thought like I'm not old 403 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can't 404 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: wait until I am. 405 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 2: Oh that's so sweet and then. 406 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: It's a very childlike memory. 407 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: No it is. It's such a visceral kind of memory. 408 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 2: But yeah, I was gonna say too. I think it's 409 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 2: a very John Waters esque movie. 410 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: It feels almost like have you ever seen Ceial Mom? No, 411 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: Cerial Mom was like his first foray and to try 412 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: to be a little more mainstream, and it's Kathleen Turner 413 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: plays a mom who starts murdering people. So she's like 414 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: a serial killer mom. And it's this halfway point between 415 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: true like trash B movie and like mainstream Hollywood movie. 416 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: So you know, you get Kathleen Turner. She's obviously a big, 417 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: bankable star. It is, you know, a broad comedy, but 418 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: she's also murdering people and that's kind of what this 419 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: is like. It's no coincidence that it became over the 420 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: year as a cult classic because it's sort of like 421 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: it's built to be that. It's not going to actually 422 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: be the movie that like makes Freddy Prince Junior famous, Right. 423 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: I could see this being really fun to put on 424 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: at or something exactly. And just for some context, the 425 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 2: siko's on Letterbox love this movie. They love it. I 426 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: can see why. Honestly, it is fun and I think 427 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 2: that part of the reason why my viewing experience was 428 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: maybe like less fun than I wanted it to be, 429 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 2: it is just because I was watching it by myself, 430 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: and part of that is you just want somebody to 431 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 2: be able to turn to and be like, what, yeah, are. 432 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: Watching those folks. We're going to take a short break, 433 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: stay with us. 434 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: And we're back with more United States of Kennedy. 435 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: So we are ostensibly supposed to be talking about the Kennedy's. 436 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: I want to get into what the Kennedy reference could 437 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: possibly mean, because this is another thing I found myself 438 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: thinking way more in my second viewing. This is an 439 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: interesting common and terry about the traumatic nature of big 440 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: media events. Yeah, I'm thinking in terms of like for 441 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,719 Speaker 1: our generation, the equivalent would have been obviously watching nine 442 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: to eleven footage on TV. 443 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: Which we don't remember because we're so young, But. 444 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: It is, you know, the effect that a huge media 445 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: event that happens when you are like between the ages 446 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: of you know, six and fifteen, what that does to 447 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: you psychologically. 448 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: I mean that they mention it in the film, they 449 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: say everyone remembers where they were, and that's what my 450 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 2: parents say about it as well. 451 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like the fact that for them it's 452 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: it also becomes perverse and sexual. Is this other sort 453 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: of fascinating thing Like it reminded me of David Kronerberg's Crash, 454 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: where people are like their kink as car crashes. I 455 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: see the intelligent commentary hidden under you know, a Tory 456 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: Spelling movie, where I'm like, wow, this is kind of 457 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: like a very provocative thing to be saying that, like 458 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: these nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid 459 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: fervor actually hide something darker in us. That's like a 460 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: desire for something so perverted and forbidden or something. It's 461 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it is like the perverted human instinct to 462 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: like look back at a car crash, the thing like, 463 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: if you pass a car crash, you're going to look 464 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: back at it. 465 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 2: I actually think there's really something to that analysis, because 466 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: how many times do we watch, I mean, even those 467 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: of us who were not born, how many times have 468 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: we all watched throughout the years the footage from Dallas. 469 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's true. 470 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 2: We do have a morbid cultural fascination with it, and 471 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: we do keep returning to the source material in a 472 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 2: way that I don't know. 473 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: No, I think there was some other movie that is 474 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: alluding to the Zubruder tape the entire time, and then 475 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: at some point actually shows it. And it's honestly the 476 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: same kind of sense. You get what there's like an 477 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: especially pornographic seat in a movie and you're like, oh 478 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: my god, I'm not supposed to be looking at this. Yeah, 479 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: obviously the reaction is different, but the valence is similar, 480 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: of this weird excitement at seeing something that is supposed 481 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: to be forbidden. 482 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: Well, the most recent example of that was the Charlie 483 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 2: Kirk footage, which it was getting passed around like crazy, 484 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 2: and when I saw the footage, I audibly gasped. I 485 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: don't know how you wouldn't. 486 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: I remember the first round of people being like, oh god, 487 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: I saw it, Oh God, I saw it. And I 488 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: was like, okay, well I'm going to avoid it. I'm 489 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: not going to seek it out. And of course, within 490 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: thirty seconds, sure when I was on Twitter or something, 491 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: wasn't getting censored. And this is the case with all 492 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: these things. There's the initial shock of seeing something so awful, 493 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: reaction to seeing it fifteen more times. Yeah, first you 494 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: get the shock and then you are almost surprised with 495 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: how much you slowly get used to it. 496 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the desensitizing. 497 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, the desensitizing. I think it was clearly a very 498 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: provocative thing to place at the center of such a movie. 499 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: But I did find it to be kind of a 500 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: fascinating portrait of an American family and fall or something. 501 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: It's almost like this act of violence took away the 502 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: innocence of the American household. 503 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then at the end it's kind of obliquely 504 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: revealed that the mom killed their dad and buried him 505 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: in the backyard and that's where all the children with 506 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: the webbed feet are going to go. 507 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, the more structural violence around us is kind 508 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: of reflected in each household in this rich Virginia suburb. 509 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. What a kooky movie. 510 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: It's really something. 511 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 2: But I do think that in terms of someone for 512 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: a mentally ill rich woman to emulate or be obsessed with, 513 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: it was of course it was Jackie. 514 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: Oh well, that's the other thing. Yes, And thank you 515 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: for bringing that up, because another kind of element of 516 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: the Kennedy thing is this was one of the first 517 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: instances of someone in politics becoming a celebrity in the 518 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: way that we think of now, when you think of 519 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: how Michelle Obama is treated when she goes on a 520 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: big book tour, she might as well be Lady Gaga 521 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: or Beyonce or Borrow Street or something like. She really 522 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: is like a celebrity. She's putting out a whole book 523 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: right now. That's about her style. It's not about you know, 524 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: politics or what she hopes for America, although I guess 525 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: she does hope everyone looks fabulous. So I do think 526 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: that that is also kind of an interesting element of it. 527 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: Like you think of a young woman being obsessed with 528 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: Madonna or being obsessed with an actress or something. 529 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, if this was nineteen eighty three, it's just a 530 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: little odd. Yes, totally, she would be so obsessed with 531 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 2: this very recent I. 532 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: Know, I'm trying to think what the equivalent is, like 533 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, What was the tragedy that 534 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: happened that someone would be Well, maybe let's not let's 535 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: not look too much into that. But I actually think 536 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: that's part of it. She is weird when she shows 537 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: up to that party dress as Jackie. That's not normal. 538 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 1: That means, you know, it's kind of like nerdy kid 539 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: being into comic books. When all the other kids are 540 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: into race cars or whatever. It's her version of being 541 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: a weird girl who takes photos of dead birds. 542 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's an interesting little character study of this 543 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: very mentally a woman who has, among other things, delusions 544 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: of grandeur. Even though she is o sensibly very wealthy. 545 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: It seems like all the money is gone and like 546 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: there's something a little gray gardens about it. 547 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, that's another Kennedy parallel. I feel, honestly even 548 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: just you know, we're obviously now talking in broad archetypes, 549 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: but the archetype of the sort of distant but controlling mother. 550 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: The fact that, yes, as you say, in this giant house, the. 551 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: Furniture is nice, but the kitchen's a mess, and the 552 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: maid is gone and are there sheets on the bed? 553 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 1: Right? And of course there's this I mean, I keep 554 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 1: wanting to say, waspyo. But of course the Kennedy's are 555 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: Catholic famously, but thank you. Yes, but there's this very 556 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: proper speak. Even when talking about extremely dark issues, everything 557 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: has to be couched in politeness. Yeah, I find the 558 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: It's funny you mentioned the kitchen. One of the big 559 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: plot points is that because of the hurricane the power 560 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: goes out, so the oven doesn't work, so they can't 561 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: make things dinner. And I feel like that's also very 562 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: obvious nod to there is no coziness in this family, 563 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: Like they can't even cook dinner. They're there for Thanksgiving 564 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: on all they have to eat is so it's cold. Yes, exactly. 565 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: I mean I'm just looking at some of these quotes. 566 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: Troy Spelling goes, boy, it's been a long day, and 567 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: then Jaggie o goes not as long as yesterday. Yesterday 568 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: it was twenty four whole hours. 569 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: If you love Parker Posey, you should watch this movie. 570 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: It's really full of because it is. It's kind of 571 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: a showcase for her to be as stranged. 572 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: She's taping the windows to prepare for the rain because 573 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: she saw it somewhere and she saw it on the news. 574 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: But it'll leave goo on the windows. 575 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: But goo on the windows. Goo is what tape is 576 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: all about. Who is what makes a tape instead of paper? 577 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: She's right. 578 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: I have to say, you know, would I recommend this film? 579 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: I would say yes. I say, get a group of 580 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: friends together, yeah, have a bottle of chardonnay, put out 581 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: some orders, make sure the oven is working. 582 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's crackers something not not super pretentious, maybe not 583 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: a great chardin Ney, yes. 584 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: Yes, and just don't have a ball. I mean this 585 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: quote love is for people with tiny lives. I mean 586 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: there's some real poetry. 587 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: And isn't the second part of that in tiny Little 588 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 2: heads or something? 589 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? So anyway, I think this gets an enthusiastic one 590 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: thumb up and one thumb down, but we're not sure 591 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: whose thumb is witch. 592 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: Go see it for yourself, Yes, go see it for yourself. 593 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: There's so much cultural detritus that references the Kennedy's that 594 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: is completely you know, seatier in certain in terms of 595 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: the type of stuff we talk about. But it is 596 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: fun to see, aside from the super popular depictions of 597 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: the Kennedy's, how this stuff gets watered down and passed 598 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: down and then reappropriated in these weird kookie ways. It 599 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: just is in the DNA of American pop culture so 600 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: much that someone can write an off Broadway play that 601 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: then gets adapted into a film that then is like 602 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: reclaimed as a cult classic that is about twins that 603 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: have an ancestral relationship in which they fetishize the Kennedy assassination. 604 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 2: And honestly, I do really mean this is that over 605 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 2: the course of this podcast, obviously you and I at 606 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: this point have watched quite a few movies that, as 607 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: you say, are just so Oscar Baby and trying so 608 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: hard to be taken seriously that they end up becoming 609 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: essentially like lifetime movies. And this goes in the other direction. 610 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 2: And I do prefer this. 611 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I completely agree. I prefer this. I think 612 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: it's a very funny double feature with you know, Pabl 613 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: Lourian's Jackie starting Natalie Portman, because both of them are 614 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: such campy, cooky performances in just opposite ways. I mean, 615 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: Perker Posey is not trying to win an Oscar, She's 616 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: trying to win, of course, an audience award at Sun Dance. 617 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: That's right, but it is it's funny. It's funny the 618 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: way that this cultural iconography gets remixed and reappropriated for 619 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: each different age and for each different audience. And as 620 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: we said, with Julia Fox wearing this exact costume basically 621 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: just this year, it's not stopping anytime soon. I mean, 622 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: we're about to see a Jack Schlassberg congressional run. RFK 623 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: is as ever in the news for reasons both political 624 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: and personal. 625 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: The Kennedy legacy is violent and upsetting in a lot. 626 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: I have to mark myself safe from it every morning 627 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: when I wake up. 628 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 2: So yeah, I actually think the Julia Fox Halloween costume, 629 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: the fact that it happened this Halloween and she had 630 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: the suit covered in blood, I think we're never going 631 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 2: to shake this cultural morbid fascination with one of the 632 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 2: most gruesome public murders in modern American history. 633 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: And not to mention Ryan Murphy working on the JFK 634 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: Junior Show, There's about to be an onslaught of Kennedy content, 635 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: So listeners of this podcast will be the only ones 636 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: prepared in America. 637 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: You heard it here first. That's it for this week's episode. 638 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: Next week we will be going back to talking about 639 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: the actual Kennedy family and not just the fictional portrayal 640 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: of Kennedy related kinks. So subscribe and follow United States 641 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: of Kennedy for all Things Kennedy every week. 642 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: United States of Kennedy is hosted by Me, Julia Clair, 643 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: and George Saveres. 644 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: Original music by Joshua Chopolski. 645 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: Editing by Graham Gibson. 646 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: Mixing and mastering by Doug Bame. 647 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: Research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson. 648 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: Our producer is Carmen Laurent. 649 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Jenna Cagele. 650 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: Created by Lyra Smith. 651 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart Podcasts.