WEBVTT - Weapons Review and It’s Never Over, Jeff Buckley 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.360 This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.840 the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.600 Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.719 time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.960 your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.120 goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.479 and go. 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Why just her classroom? Why 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.880 only hurt a children? 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.000 We have a lot of emotional parents here. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:56.160 I think his best. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.600 If you keep some that's from this place, I'll tell 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.280 you who didn't keep their distance, Josh. Moviegoers. Zach Kraiger's 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.040 horror mystery Weapons was number one at the box office 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:06.760 last weekend. 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.440 Josh Brolin and Julia Garner starring that one. We've got 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.919 a review, plus the new doc It's Never Over Jeff Buckley, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:14.880 that and more. 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.239 This is where the story really starts. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:26.400 Ahead on film Spotting, Welcome to film Spotting. I know 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.280 you're very happy, Josh that Weapons was released in August. 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.280 You have plenty of time to get your Halloween costume ready. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:34.320 You're all set. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.520 There's one very obvious direction you could go with Weapons, Adam, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.079 and I'll be curious to see if that happens when 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:43.760 Halloween rolls around for a lot of people. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.320 Yeah, we've got a review of Weapons coming up. Plus 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.799 I'll have some thoughts on the new doc It's Never 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.880 Over Jeff Buckley, and we'll play Massacre theater. 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.160 But first Weapons. Late one night in the suburban town 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.400 of Maybrook, Pennsylvania, every kid from a singer classroom disappeared 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.720 at the exact same time, and that, as the opening 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.080 narration tells us, is where the story starts. Here's Josh Brolin, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.920 the father of one of the missing children, confronting Julia Garner, 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:14.400 the Missing Kids teacher. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.440 Hey, I want to talk to you. 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.960 I don't think we have anything to say to each other. 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.000 I think you have a lot to say you and. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.480 Every other person in the city. 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.119 Believe me, the message is a loud and clear I'm 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:27.240 the problem, got it? 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:28.040 You know what? I think. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.320 That's the first honest thing I've heard you say you 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:31.079 are the problem? 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:32.400 What you want to get in my face? 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:33.359 You want to threaten me? 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:35.400 Nobody's threatening you right now. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:36.240 That's the wrong tree. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.440 Aren't you have this whole victim persona that you're taking on? 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:40.520 It might have to be. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.960 Maybe it was always obvious. The Weapons trailer features imagery 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.240 of a tense town hall meeting with angry parents demanding answers, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.480 snapshots of departed children, and a candlelight, flower filled memorial 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.520 outside an elementary school adorned with a sign that says, 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.440 may Brook strong And have I mentioned that the movie 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.480 is called Weapons? If you didn't go into Zach Craiger's 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.119 sophomore feature already assuming the writer director intended an allegory 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:11.080 of American school shootings, you almost certainly walked out considering 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.960 the strong possibility during a dream sequence in which Brolin's 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.880 grieving father, Archer HMM, a weapon iSER, chases after his 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:24.039 missing son Matthew. A large assault rifle appears floating above 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.440 one of the neighborhood houses. Craiger also introduces and underscores 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.760 how bullying regularly occurs amongst this group of students. Since 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.440 many studies have connected bullying to school shootings, it's reasonable 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.200 to assume that he expects us to make the same connection. 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.560 We like to pose deeply flawed questions here on film 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.520 spotting Josh, So pardon me if this one follows suit. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:51.120 Craiger's invoking of school shootings is a entirely intentional and 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.520 powerful offering, a meaningful added layer to unpack while unraveling 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:00.680 the chilling mystery of Maybrook's lost children. B entire lif intentional, 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.800 but also entirely hollow and as a result, possibly even 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:10.480 distasteful or see. I don't know whether it's intentional or unintentional, 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.560 and I'm not convinced Craiger himself knows, but I don't 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.280 care because I was having too much dreadful fun. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:19.080 Boy. 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.520 This is gonna be an addition of how dnse is Josh, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:27.080 because I'm gonna take you Adam through the timeline of 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.880 my wrestling with this very question. Uh and and I'll, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.640 you know, get to the end right now and say, see, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.279 I loved weapons. I think it's I think it's incredible, 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.880 but I will allow, not only allow, but give way 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.320 to anyone who feels be that was the unethical choice, 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:48.839 right that this that you posited. Essentially, it's interesting. You know, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.880 this is the week of Cinema interrupt Us and a 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.159 listener came up to me just yesterday after we had 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.600 screamed Robert Altman's the Player, and I thought, you know, 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.120 we're we're gonna talk a little bit about what we 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:06.160 just saw, and she wanted to talk about weapons. And 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.200 if you want to follow this listener on letterbox, she's there. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:15.560 She posted about weapons. Kurt Runs is her handle crt Runs, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.400 and she was quite distraught about what she called the 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.400 ethical choices made by the filmmakers. Now, I should say 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.120 we didn't end up getting into it too much, so 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.440 I am not certain that she's talking specifically about the 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.160 school shooting's connection. It seemed to be perhaps more generally 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.400 about children and the use of children in the film. 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.000 So it's just an example that I want to use 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.400 to put out there is anyone who does have those 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.160 concerns I think are legitimate. I mercifully have not been 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.159 personally touched by what has become all too common in 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.080 American society school shootings, and if I had, I might 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.720 have a totally different perspective on this. I did end 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.279 up in that place where I found this to be 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:06.760 a potent allegory, a cathartic allegory from the vantage point 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.800 of a person who witnesses this from afar but still 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:15.920 feels an impotent rage about it. But to the denseness question, Adam, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.600 I'm telling you, I'm in that group where not only 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.920 was it not walking out of the theater, it was 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.920 looking over my notes and trying to piece things together, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:30.520 where I was suddenly like, oh, that's it, Like this 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.960 is absolutely it, And maybe that moves me more towards 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.840 the intentional category on the part of Craiger and his collaborators. 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.040 You know where I started right away, though, Adam was 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.760 with the Tale of the Pie Piper, and as soon 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.880 as I knew the premise going in, But as soon 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.160 as we get it anew in the opening segment of 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.480 Weapons and Craiger pretty much gets it out of the 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.640 way before the title, I think, even with these haunting 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.360 images of the children fleeing at night, you know, I 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.200 was thinking about that legend of the Pied Piper, the 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:08.160 rat catcher, who the town refuses to pay for his services, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.600 and so he leads the town's children away and they disappear. 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.480 And I'm thinking as I'm watching, what was that legend 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:20.000 about and why does it persist? And you know, read 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.120 up some more when I got home and realize that 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.480 some people suggest, well, this was a way for medieval 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.480 communities to deal with mass deaths of children, maybe to 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.600 natural disasters, maybe to disease, and a story like that 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.199 was helpful in processing it. So I thought, Okay, how 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.960 might weapons which is very much about children being lost 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:50.360 to inexplicable evil, right, just something that you can't rationalize, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.320 like a natural disaster, how might weapons be working in 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.800 the same way or is it hollow or is it 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.679 you know, not really serving the purpose? Is it ecsploiding this? 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.920 And that's when I usually go to the text. You know, 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.200 during the movie, I was thinking, is this like a 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.920 Gaza situation? We've been inundated with images of starving children 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.920 in Gaza. Obviously that couldn't have been intentional, But is 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:14.880 that a way to go with this where there's a 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.120 potent metaphor or allegory here. I thought of a couple 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:23.479 of other directions, and then, yes, you mentioned it in 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:28.480 the setup there, Adam, this image of a gun over 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.600 a house. In the moment, I didn't make the connection, 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.520 but I did think about other things in the text, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.240 and you counted them off right, this empty classroom, the 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:46.079 memorial candles and flowers, and I'm realizing these are bitterly familiar. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.520 And I do think that this movie works as a 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.160 modern pied piper tale. And we can't really at this 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:00.560 point get into why I found it. So in the 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.600 end there is a Bonker's climax. Let's just say that 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.840 is darkly funny, insanely sustained on the level of filmmaking. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:16.160 But also I found myself, Adam like, feeling disturbingly cathartic 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:21.319 emotions from that, because subconsciously, I think I had been 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:29.480 connecting it to this recurring, recurring crisis in America that 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.400 fits a few things. We hear Archer, the Josh Brolin character, 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.360 saying I see something that doesn't make any sense at all, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.880 and later accusing the teacher. You're either negligent or complicit. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.000 We are both negligent and complicit as a society when 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.120 it comes to sacrificing kids at the idle of firearms. 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:53.559 And I personally found weapons to be entirely effective as 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.600 an allegory for that, even if it took me a 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.480 while being dense and not usually watching movies as puzzle 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.079 pieces while I'm in the moment, it took me a 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:03.920 while to get there, but I got there, and I 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.040 think I like where the movie landed, or at least 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:08.079 where I landed with it. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.040 We'll see where the conversation goes if you feel like 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:15.760 we need to get into that sustained bonkers ending, and 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.360 I agree. We can certainly make some room for some 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:23.280 spoiler talk here, and we will provide plenty of advanced 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.520 warning if we do decide to do that. You talk 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:31.680 about some of these other references potentially, I don't think 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.000 this movie has anything in common with the other movie 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.480 I'm going to mention, or the book I'm going to mention. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.880 But when you talk about losing children and how we 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.800 process that, does it have to be losing children to 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:49.280 something evil? It can just be nonsensical, unfathomable. The Sweet 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.200 hereafter that am Agoyan film The Russell Banks novel is 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.080 something I thought about as I. 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.200 Have you been talking to Scott's bias. 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:58.240 No, I haven't. 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.880 Actually, our friend critic and Next Picture Show hosts he 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.600 was at the screen and I was at and afterwards 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.480 he's like, I'm going to try to sell the group. 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.319 I'm pairing it with the Sweet look after which I think, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.880 I think you're exactly right. I think that's great. That 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.320 would be a brilliant YEP. That would be a brilliant pairent. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:15.079 I hope they do that. 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:21.520 And you mention things that people viewers could potentially get 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.520 upset about, like the person who came up to you 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.920 after Cinema interrupt us. There's even another potential aspect, and 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.400 I know some people have, and that's regarding who and what? 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.280 Maybe what is the better way to phrase it, what 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.400 the villain is? That again, we would have to leave 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.240 to some spoiler talk in terms of my answer to 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.120 the question. And I like this movie too. I don't 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.040 like the movie quite as much as you do, but 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.679 I do like the movie. I maybe tempted to say 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.360 d all of the above or or can I go 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.720 with other in that I think it's it's maybe a 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.040 bit of a red herring. You certainly can't ignore it 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.680 for all the reasons I outlined and you discussed. I 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.880 don't necessarily think that Craiger is trying to make an 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.280 overt political statement, nor do I think he's saying something 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.840 particularly profound about how we as a country or society 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:17.439 process collective trauma. And if you were inclined, I'll go 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.680 back to this notion of maybe getting a little bit 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.640 upset about the film, If you were inclined to be 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.960 annoyed that the movie is exploiting these tragedies, another strike 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.360 against it could be This just occurred to me today 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.480 as I was prepping for this conversation Josh, the narrator 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.800 tells us this little girl's voice. We never find out 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.560 exactly who she is as far as I know, right, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.160 but we have this girl's voice narrating the story at 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.800 the beginning and comes back at the end, and she 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.800 tells us that the powers that be in the town 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.079 are going to cover up what really happened to the kids. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.840 Sod unresolved. I have unresolved questions about the narrator and 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.680 the logic behind that. I don't think that's a strength 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.640 of the film and even really necessary. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.400 Well, yeah, I bring that up only because now now 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.120 Craiger is potentially harnessing the language of conspiracy theories, which 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.079 I don't know that we necessarily want to bring up 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.840 when it comes to conversations about tragedies involving school shootings. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.000 But for me, I suppose it it speaks to the 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.960 challenge and the limitations of these types of allegorical interpretations. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.320 And I've maybe talked about this a little bit before. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.640 We've talked about Mickey seventeen this year, We've talked about 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.560 Tarkovsky during our Tarkovsky Marathon, So there's been a lot 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:38.040 of allegorical talk. But it doesn't necessarily expand my understanding 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.040 or appreciation of a work to read what happens in 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.760 a movie as representative of something else. I'm more interested 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.600 in what the text itself is giving me or not 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.680 giving me, and what I grasped onto here, And I 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.520 don't mean grasped onto to try to decipher some deeper meaning. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.600 I mean just keeping me engaged in the story and 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.760 feeling like you've got a filmmaker actually wrestling with something. 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.640 Maybe even something personal and not just trying to usher 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:15.440 us forward toward a bloody resolution. Within this pulp fiction 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.600 esque or magnolia esque nonlinear structure that we have, and 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.720 that is what we have. We have chapters divided by characters, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.480 character names, and it overlaps. We get repeating moments from 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.280 different points of view, different perspectives of these individual characters. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.040 It's not just that each one of them, Josh, each 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.840 one of these characters is dealing with individual pain and 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.320 trying to forge ahead. There are lots of movies about 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.640 characters who are suffering. Here we have very lonely, isolated, 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:56.040 hurt characters who consistently and I would say arguably always 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:01.920 unintentionally hurt other people. Not only are none of them bad, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:07.560 We're usually sympathetic to their circumstances, we understand, but their 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:12.600 pain leads to choices and a spiraling that causes other pain. 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.640 I'll give you just two examples. The first two characters 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:20.560 we meet Justine the teacher, Julia Garner's character. She is 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.880 certainly a victim here. She is not someone to blame 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.400 for anything that has happened. She's not to blame for 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:32.200 this tragedy, despite how some people feel or think have 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.880 to believe. They're clinging to this notion that she must 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.360 be to blame because they need they need someone to blame. 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:42.080 She's not a witch, but she chooses to self medicate 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.880 excessively with alcohol. It's an issue that we learned she 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:51.520 had before this tragedy, and selfishly, again understandably but selfishly, 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.840 she brings another character down with her, and that character 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.840 makes their own choices. I'm not discounting that, but it's 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:03.800 a cycle. And what do his choices lead to another 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:08.879 person's unintended pain and disappointment? Think about Josh all that 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.159 ensues in this film, all the dominoes that fall that 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.639 you can trace back to Justine at the bar, and 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.040 of course before that, the tragedy. But Justine at the 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:25.160 bar insisting just have one drink with me, Please drink Yeah. 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.800 And then we go to Archer. The pain of losing 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.280 his son not only causes him to lash out at Justine, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.480 amplifying her pain, which leads to her going to the 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.400 bar and meeting with that person and wanting to have 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.040 just one real drink. But Kraiger shows us one interaction 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.480 one interaction with Archer's wife, her saying goodbye to go 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.240 to work. He's sleeping, he's waking up in his son's bed. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.760 It's clear from that one terse interaction that their marriage 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.720 is completely on the ropes since Matthew's disappearance. Rather than 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.640 turning to each other, rather than relying on each other, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:06.920 Archer anyway has completely turned intword. He is understandably here 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:12.000 again but selfishly let the pain completely consume him, and 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.720 he's completely detached from his marriage. And I think there's 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:19.440 a corollary with every other main character, certainly every other 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.120 character who gets to chapter save one. And I won't 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.160 get into that because of spoilers. And it even connects 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.840 back to the character who we shall not speak about, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.000 because then we're really getting into spoilers that villain character 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.359 as I'm identifying them. But that connection to Josh even 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:39.400 confirms further from me that Krager explores the way pain 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:45.000 consumes and controls us, how it can be weaponized, and 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:46.600 the collateral damage it causes. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.159 I think you're onto something that I was trying to 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.880 piece together, and this is helpful in that vein about 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.440 the notion of parasites in a way and feeding off 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.840 others and these characters, it really is. Yeah, it's a motif. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.400 There are characters watching a nature documentary and we see 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.280 a good thirty seconds of it, and it's about a 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.800 form of parasites. And it's not that the characters you're 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.600 describing are necessarily meaning to feed off others. But I 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.720 like how you're talking about the recurring, the transferring of pain, 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.840 and I think that fits. Yeah. The structure I think 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.280 is is very intricate and smart and clever and effective. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.480 I want to return to it, but first I want 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.919 to say that I like what you were talking about 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.520 in terms of appreciating the experience that you're given, not 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.919 necessarily putting all your eggs in the basket of the allegory. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.280 And I wanted to return to that because I'm not, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.400 despite what I said at the top, I'm not as 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:47.280 enthusiastic about weapons because it does function for me as 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.840 an allegory for school shootings. I mostly appreciated this as 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:59.840 an expertly constructed, terrifying, like heart thumping horror movie. And 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.120 and then if I can afterwards, when I'm going home 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.879 trying to catch my breath and I missed my stop 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:08.919 on the train, can I point out because I was 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.840 so discombobulated by this movie. I wouldn't one stop too far. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.680 If after that great experience, I can then have that. 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.920 Oh but it could also mean this, then it's a bonus. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.280 So just wanted to kind of like agree with you. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:24.240 It's kind of prioritizing that. 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:25.040 And real quick. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.119 My version of that was seeing it late afternoon and 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.640 coming home and sitting at dinner and I was being 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.199 a bad husband and father, where Sarah looked across the 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.240 table at one point and said, you seem to have 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.679 something on your mind, and I had to be honest 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.200 and say, I just kind of can't shake the movie. 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.800 I just saw I have a few things on my mind. Yeah, yes, 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.000 and I'm never going into the basement again. Oh right, 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.320 so I already you're there right now, I believe. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:52.960 Yeah. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:54.120 So we were, Oh the structure. 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.000 I wanted to ask you so a question I had 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.879 in my notes, and I think this might have already 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.480 come up on the film spotting Family discord a listener 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.159 who had seen the movie. I think that's where I 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.000 saw it, and they were talking about the chapters and 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.720 what that might have added, and I did actually have 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:16.159 that in my note. Did the structure add anything? And 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.240 where I landed after thinking about it some more. Yes, 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.480 the things you talked about absolutely allowing us to make 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.320 these connections, I think what it does it also kind 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:30.040 of excruciatingly but inventively doles out the pieces of this 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:36.080 increasingly terrifying puzzle. I think it's effective that way. But also, 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:40.119 you know, I do think that it allows us to 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.960 get a fuller sense of this traumatized community. I found 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:49.000 myself forming more intimate connections with each character and learning 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.359 about their foibles to your point, in a way I 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:54.679 probably would not have if this was all focused on 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.040 Justine Say or all focused on Archer, those others would 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.520 have been more supporting character. And by making everyone a 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.879 supporting character, I felt like I knew this, this place, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.240 this town better than I would have otherwise, and so 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.439 I appreciated that. And I also think, you know, it 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.720 allows the actors to really dig in and get not scenes, 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.439 not even just one scene where they get to be 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.280 the main focus, but an entire section. And I think 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:26.040 Brolin is excellent and Garner is incredible as this exasperated 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.479 basket case you described her well, you know, she is 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.840 not the villain, but boy, she's making almost every wrong 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.359 choice you could given the situation she's in. And I 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:39.000 think Garner is incredible in the role. 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.880 Yeah, she's very good because she is making all those 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:44.760 wrong choices, but we see her as flawed, we see 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:46.920 her as human, and I think we understand, at least 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:51.479 I understood that she was thinking about her students, that 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.280 she was making us choices that weren't here. Again, she 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:59.160 wasn't making choices that were driven by selfishness, but her 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.720 pain was eating her to make what often were very 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:07.920