WEBVTT - Architect Norman Foster on Why the West Struggles to Build Big 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:15.760 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.920 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Thoughts Podcast. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 I'm Tracy Alloway and I'm Joe. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:23.920 Why isn't Joe? 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.160 You know? I spend a lot of my time doing 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.200 interior design. Yes, I've bored you, I'm sure, with a 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.320 lot of thoughts on this topic. But then it struck 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.640 me recently that actually what I'm doing is not really 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.519 interior design. It's actually just interior decorating because I'm not 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.600 really changing the structure of a particular house. I don't 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:45.839 like doing that, in part because I'm lazy and I 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.080 hate construction mess, but also because it's a lot harder 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.919 to change the particular design of a house than it 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.120 is to just get new fabric for the windows or 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.640 a new paint color. There are more real world constraints. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:02.920 Yeah, I can confirm having looked over from time to time, 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:04.440 you know, when they sit next to each other. I 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.800 can confirm having you looked at you, say, like looking 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.920 out wallpaper and vintage wallpaper that you might be acquiring. 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:12.880 But no, I have not heard of you sort of 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.160 talk about, you know, knocking down big walls or whatever 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.560 inside your home. Although I certainly. You know in New 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.360 York City, you know people who do that and they 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.240 hire an architect as part of They'll buy two condos 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:24.959 or something like that and can join them and hire 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.720 an architect and so forth. That's a different level. It's 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:29.800 a different level of constraints and obligations. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.000 Well, this is the other thing I've been thinking. Am 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.080 I a product of my time? Because so much of 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.880 the cultural emphasis nowadays seems to be on interior design 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.480 and what the inside of a building looks like versus 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.480 the exterior. And I think if I had been do 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.760 you know, thinking about these things in like the nineties 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.040 or the eighties, I would be much more into architecture. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.120 It's really interesting thought. And I hadn't really thought of 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.240 it that way, But that makes a lot of sense. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.920 And you know, my uninformed gut is like, oh, does 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.240 social media make it? Other people are just much more 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.680 obsessed with the interior design of a building, the specific 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.560 esthetic choices that are made. But of course, on the 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.120 other hand, we work at Bloomberg. We have a big 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:12.960 office in. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.440 London, many beautiful buildings. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:20.720 Many beautiful buildings, lots of glass New London HQ, absolutely 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.760 gorgeous building et cetera. And so we do live surrounded 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.600 in this world that the world we live in is 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.400 one that was built by architects or designed by architects. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.320 Absolutely, And this was the other thing I was thinking 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:36.720 about architecture in relation to economics is when it's done well, 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.800 a beautiful building ends up being a public good. Right. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.960 It can boost an entire neighborhood, it can revive a 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.600 particular city, it can improve the flow of traffic, improve 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.200 energy efficiency, do all these things. But so many buildings 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.000 are still designed by private developers, and I'm not sure 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.360 they're always incentivized to do beautiful design in that way. Like, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.120 how do you incentivize a private develop to do something 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:02.760 that ends up being a public good. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.080 It's a fascinating question. I hadn't really thought of it 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.280 framed in that. But like, for example, again, like the 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.120 new JP Morgan building in New York City. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:10.560 I like it. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.480 I don't I don't work there, but I think it's 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:14.800 like a cool addition the skyline, it blinks, et cetera. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:16.840 There's a lot of cool things, But how do you 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.280 design how do you incentivize the public good as a 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:20.040 good way to frame it? 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.640 Well, since you mentioned the JP Morgan building that is 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.600 a bit perfect, Yes, a huge clue. So we do, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.919 in fact have the perfect guest for today's show. We 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.640 are going to be speaking to a very famous architect, 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.360 Lord Norman Foster. He is of course the founder of 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.520 Foster and Partners, and we are here with him in Madrid. 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:40.240 In uh in his studio and his foundation. 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.520 Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.720 you so How much of architecture is about dealing with 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.440 real world constraints because I always think there's not just 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.960 physics and finance, but you're also dealing with things like 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.120 zoning and I guess in the UK you're also dealing 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.000 with listing requirements and things like that. How much does 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.000 that constrain you. 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:07.160 It's totally rooted in the process of design, so you 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:13.240 cannot separate. Design is really a response to constraints and 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:18.080 whether those constraints come from the codes, whether they come 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:23.359 from the requirements for the building. Because a building is 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:27.800 a response to a need, it then takes on more layers. Yes, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:33.440 it's in the public domain, but it's shaped by constraints, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:38.240 by needs. It's a response. So if you don't have 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:43.359 those constraints, if you don't have those demands if you 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:49.240 don't have to meet certain requirements performance. Some of those 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:54.200 are tangible, you can measure them. Some are less obvious, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:59.800 more subconscious, perhaps below the surface, but nonetheless. So it's 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.640 a design is a response to needs. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.880 We're in this gorgeous building of yours, and we were 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.839 just looking that you know, over there on the show 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.160 of Dirt for a series of wood samples, for example, 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.159 different types of wood from different ustry. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.320 Wood plumb would at. 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.000 The highest levels of architecture to do a great building. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.400 How much do you does the architect really need to know? 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.839 I guess maybe material science, or at least the true 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:27.680 nature of specific materials. 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:32.640 I think the more that you know about the issues 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:38.039 around any assignment, the more you're empowered as a designer. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:45.480 So that has led me over decades to promote a 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:51.960 particular way of designing, which is counterintuitive. It's against everything 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.880 that we're taught in a school of architecture or engineering, 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.880 and that is you bring all the disciplines to get 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:06.279 around a table and you work from the outset together. Now, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.320 a critic of that will say that sounds like a 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:14.440 committee architecture. It's not. I mean, basically, the team is 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.120 going to be involved in that project. So if the 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.080 architect designs and then hands it over to the engineer 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.360 to make it stand up, to make it hot when 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.560 it's cold outside, and the reverse, you lose the opportunity 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.280 of the feedback. If you get that at the outset, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:39.279 the designers are more empowered and the designers are really 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:45.719 a wider team. But that needs a process of re education. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.919 Because engineers have been taught show me what you want, 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:55.200 I'll make it work. Architects have been taught that they 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:00.240 should design in isolation. It goes further. Architects are taught 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:05.039 about doing a building in isolation. A city outside is 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:09.120 a street. You could argue the street is the essence 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.880 of the traditional city. Architects and urbanists are not talked 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:19.000 about designing streets. So planners are taught in terms of zoning, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.640 in terms of the legalities, architects have talked about individual buildings. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.360 So in a way, we have to reassess how we 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:33.400 educate and in our terms we re educate whether it's 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.680 here in a foundation preparing civic leaders for the future, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:43.600 enabling them to be able to tell the difference between fashion, prejudice, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:49.239 style and data and evidence and the same is true 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.480 in terms of a building or a city plan. 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.680 Joe brought up the wood samples. I can't help but 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.320 notice that the majority of items in this room are 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:06.840 related to transportations, so cars and jets and trains as well. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:11.880 I also read the city and the city, but I 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.480 also read in an older interview, I think someone asked 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.680 you your favorite building and you replied a jumbo jet. 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.200 Do you have an interest in engineering? Should you have 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:22.920 been an engineer instead of an architect? 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:28.440 I love flight, I love automobiles, and I think that 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:34.640 as designers we get our inspirations from many different directions. 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.360 I was deliberately being tongue in cheek in terms of 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.839 the jumper jet, but what I really wanted to do 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:47.880 was to get the audience thinking in a different way 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.560 about a jumper because when you think about it, it's 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.800 a restaurant, it's a cinema, it's a hotel, and all 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.840 the while it's moving from one place to the other. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:06.560 And also to start to think about the miracle flight. 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:12.200 I mean, there's still an extraordinary magic that these machines, 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:17.880 which are weighing tons, can somehow, by lumbering along the runway, 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:23.959 suddenly levitate and then transports vast distances. And I think 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.600 there are also a lot of lessons in terms of 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.360 the built world, in other words, how can we use 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:37.160 harness technology to improve the quality of life. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.320 I'm really fascinated by this idea of Okay, so one 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.880 might think that an architect is someone who draws clients 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.640 draws sketches on a piece of paper, and then maybe 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.960 there is an engineering firm, and then there's a construction firm, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.000 and then so forth. I'm fascinated by this idea, and 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.080 it rings true with other discussions we have. You know, 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.480 we talk to traders, for example, and there's obviously a 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.920 difference between thinking in your head and a good trade 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.560 versus what it actually takes. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:05.439 Time. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.240 Literally, this morning, I was sitting around a table with 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.800 a group of us as architects here in the foundation 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.960 on a project, alongside the individual who would be going 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.640 to build that building, and we're saying, well, the next 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.320 stage is to do this, we really have to have 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.720 the environmental engineer, we have to have this structural engineer, 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.160 and that will be the next meeting. So that was 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.840 the first meeting. Now we were able to go so far, 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.640 but only so far, and we recognize the need to 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.400 have those other skills on board. Now we could have 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.240 and it would have been absolutely traditional. We could adjust 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.920 collectively designed that building and then just passed it on, 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.520 But there would be so many lost opportunities because if 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.680 you think of a building as an integration of systems, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.400 I mean if I I tried to bring this back 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:06.439 to the world of automotive design, and I found myself 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:12.720 trying to communicate that this principle to a group of 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.439 automotive engineers, not just the engineers, but those who were 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.120 making the cars. And the example that I took was 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.400 a point in time in the nineteen thirties went pretty well. 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:32.120 All of the cars, any production car followed a certain pattern. 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:37.480 It was a chassis and then a body on top 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.600 of that, which was a shell to enclose and protect 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.480 the occupants from the rain, the elements from nature. And 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:51.520 then at one point a car emerged it was the 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:56.920 Chrysler Airflow, and the body became not just a shell, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:03.120 it became an integral part of the structure. So the 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.280 car was lighter and the car was immensely stronger. The 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.480 promotional video of that time they pushed the car off 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.240 the top of the mountain, and it kind of rolled 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.360 and rolled and landed four square. Somebody comes out of 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.719 the bushes, demonstrates that the opens the door, gets in 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.120 and drives away. The point is then that the two 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:33.360 separate systems of the shell and the chassis have merged 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.480 into one element, which is doing both jobs better. So 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.680 it's doing more with less. Now imagine that we're talking 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.360 about the exterior of a building, heating and cooling it. 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.800 If you think of integrated design, then you're going to 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.800 end up if all those skills are working together, you 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.680 can really do a system approach to design. You can 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:04.040 start to get things doing duty, performing more less components, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:11.280 higher performance, more quality, and better quality of life. Whether 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.240 that principle, whether it's in a city or a building, 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.240 is all of that is to a social end. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.880 How do you think about the social end of buildings 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.320 when you're given a particular project. So I know that 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.960 you often do public buildings, and I imagine that you 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.880 are in dialogue with cities and states around the world 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.240 when you're doing those. But when you're given a private 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.800 assignment such as a JP Morgan building or a Bloomberg office, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.120 how do you think about the public good aspect? 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:05.160 Of design, thinking simultaneously of how that building works from 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:10.439 the inside out, and you're also thinking simultaneously from the 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:16.200 outside inn because arguably there are two completely separate groups 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:20.880 of people private inside public outside, but the building is 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.200 in the public domain. So if I took the headquarters 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:33.000 of Bloomberg, then an early decision was to intersect the 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.600 building with Wattling Street. Watling Street was the old Roman 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:43.800 road opposite. If you acknowledged that, and you continued that 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:48.040 and it became an arcade through the building and you 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:54.520 had connectivity over that arcade, then simultaneously you were breaking 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.400 down the scale of the building. It was then more 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:02.560 human and the public spaces bringing in an artist to 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:08.440 create water benches. That was also double duty the system's 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:13.400 approach providing security, but it wasn't an ugly bollard you 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:18.120 didn't notice providing security. It was also bringing people together. 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:23.440 Then the arcade is an opportunity to introduce shops and 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.000 stuff that is working with the Bloomberg philosophy of encouraging 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:35.840 the neighborhood to benefit from this private entity coming into 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.960 the community, rather than it being an island and killing 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.280 off the traders. It's encouraging local traders. Now, everything I've 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:49.440 described then is working to the benefit of the interior 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.640 of the building, and the facades are starting to be 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.280 able to breathe and pour lots of fresh air into 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.000 the building. So it's making the building a healthier building. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.800 But it's also on the exterior, not another glass box. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.400 It's a combination of bronze and the local stone, local stone, 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:15.400 the stone of the adjoining buildings. So it's working environmentally 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.480 in terms of sustainability, it's reducing energy, it's creating a 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.320 healthier building for the occupants. And then because it's deep 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:28.280 and low, it's not pushing into the sky, so it 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:33.320 is reverential to the historic buildings around it of the 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.880 same mass. But at the same time it's creating horizontality, 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:43.600 and horizontality is good for communication, and Bloomberg is about communication. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:49.200 Now I could describe another kind of building for a 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:55.040 completely different kind of how can I say, client body 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.560 also in the high tech business, so if I go 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:06.200 to Beijing, if I talk about a building there, the 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:11.760 company ethos is totally different. It's about competition between groups, 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.560 so it's the poll opposite, and I could describe that. Indeed, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.640 the point that I'm making is that as I take 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:25.720 you through these decisions, the way that they overlap and interact, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:30.280 you start to realize that the process of design is 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.320 about balancing, it's about reconciling. It's about creating something which 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:40.720 is simultaneously working in the public domain, working for a visitor, 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.560 working for those inside when they come outside. 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.720 Well, since you alluded to it, and now I'm particularly 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.439 particularly curious about it, I imagine that in the decades ahead, 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.040 you know, there will still be new JP Morgan headquarters, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.600 new Bloomberg headquarters, et cetera, but there is probably going 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.600 to be a lot more megaprojects still coming out of 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.119 Asia or Beijing or China specifically. And so when you 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.600 describe that environment is different, what should the architects of 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.000 the future know about working in these markets? 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.119 First of all, I mean I took the example of 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:24.360 the building in China. That same need could be anywhere, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.200 it just happened to be in China. So you could 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:33.480 have in China exactly the same requirements as a building 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:39.160 like JP Morgan or Bloomberg, although of course no two 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.920 buildings are like. I mean, each is specific to its 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:50.720 own organization. The values of those organizations, the aspirations of 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.520 those who've created them, whether they're an individual like Mike 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.240 Bloomberg in Bloomberg, whether it's Steve Jobs with Apple, or 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:04.200 whether it's much more corporate, more anonymous, But nonetheless there 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:09.800 are those values. I would say that common to any 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.480 building anywhere is how do you anticipate the future? So 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:19.560 if I go back to an early building which recently 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.320 celebrated its half century, and that was the Willis Faber 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:29.560 Building in Ipswich and insurance headquarters. And in the life 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:36.080 of that building, that building had a high degree of flexibility, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:41.800 and nobody in their wildest dreams anticipated that that flexibility 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.280 would be used. But in no time at all after 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.399 it opened, it opened with typewriters, and in no time 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.679 that building, and it was the only building in the 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:57.280 insurance industry which was as a headquarters able to adapt. 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.159 It adapted to the digital revelu to screens. And the 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.560 same was true of the Hong Kong Bank, the Hong 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:09.120 Kong Bank, which I also recently went to their fortieth 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:13.120 anniversary as opposed to Willis Favor and their fiftieth anniversary, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.640 so literally a few weeks ago, I was there at 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:21.120 that celebration and the same thing there. That building, quite 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.400 radical at the time and still in many ways radical. 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:29.960 Took the traditional central core of a tower, which contained 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:34.440 the structure, the vertical circulation, the bathroom's mechanical plant, took 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:39.320 all that fragmented it put it at the sides of big, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:44.879 open loft things. Nobody anticipated that in the life of 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.359 that building, in the early life, there would be something 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.879 known as a trading floor, where you need clear line 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:55.120 of sight. That wasn't a need in the nineteen late 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.520 nineteen seventies when the competition for that building, but it 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:03.399 was able to absorb. So I think that the whole 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:09.520 thing about the future is that by design you can, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.959 if I say that, you create a building for the 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.800 needs of today with an awareness of the past, but 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.560 to as far as you're able to anticipate the future, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:27.520 which is largely unknown. But the perhaps in terms of 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:34.479 infrastructure having been backwards and forwards to Asia, and if 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:39.119 I say China more specifically over the last thirty years, 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.560 I mean the changes that I've seen, which interestingly I 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:48.560 was communicating earlier this week to the Bloomberg event audience 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:53.040 here and sharing that experience with them and showing them 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:58.240 the China when I first went there and it's foggy, 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:04.879 it's misty, you can't see the cities now unbelievable, I 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:12.480 mean clean air, ninety percent of the vehicles electric, and 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:17.720 an extraordinary amount of green. I mean Shanghai is fifty percent, 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:24.440 Beijing fifty percent green. That's happened over the last few decades. 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:32.280 And in terms of connectivity, just over fifty four thousand 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:37.400 kilometers of high speed train two hundred and twenty miles 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:41.800 an hour, three hundred and fifty kilometers an hour connecting. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:49.000 By this, ninety seven percent of Chinese cities on a 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:57.120 pig day, thirteen million travelers achieved in sixteen years. And 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:04.160 in the UK they gave up on the London to Manchester. 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.040 It goes as far as Birmingham. Short term ism. They 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.880 have a department for leveling up. The ultimate leveling up 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:15.680 is connectivity. They just didn't get it. And that fifty 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.239 four thousand kilometers is more than the rest of the 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.320 world put together by a huge margin. 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.879 Why do you think certain countries And you brought up 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:27.359 the UK there, but you could possibly say the same 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:29.040 for the US as well. Why do you think certain 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:30.320 countries big? 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:36.920 Because at every stage in the emergence, the emergence of 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:44.359 a nation, whether that is the United Kingdom in its 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.920 empire days, the Industrial Revolution. It led the world. We're 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:52.639 still trading right now on that. I mean, the Thames 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:59.399 Embankment was a response to cholera. It created, if you like, 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:05.600 systems thinking and doing more with less. It also introduced 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:10.520 below ground high speed public transport. It cleaned up the Thames. 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:17.240 So that period you had the expression of that civic 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:22.760 pride I started. I started work at the age of 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:28.240 sixteen in Manchester Town Hall, which was the ultimate statement 0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:32.120 of civic pride. And it was a competition and Waterhouse 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:36.160 won that competition. That was my first experience of architecture. 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:39.960 It took me a little longer to eventually discover that 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.119 I could study architecture. So I was a late starter 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:45.920 at the age of twenty one. But I can remember 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:50.160 vividly right now details of that building. I mean, that 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.359 really lifted my spirit. So that whether it was the 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:58.080 great train stations, and of course today it's the great airports. 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:00.320 So if you really want to see that the most 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:03.560 advanced airports in the world, where do you go? I mean, 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.080 it's obvious we know where you go. 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:08.399 Right there's a mockup. 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:14.440 There's a huge model immediately behind us here. The Basing 0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:19.359 Airport was built in five years now. At the same 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.199 time I drew a parallel with Terminal five, which I 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:24.840 think took twenty years and was the fraction of the 0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:27.560 size and is really a sort of band aid on 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:31.440 top of Heathrow, which is still embedded in the heart 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:37.960 of you overfly metropolis together. So there are a lot 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:44.199 of messages perhaps mixed up in these analogies and comparisons. 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.879 No, it makes sense, and I didn't necessarily expect the 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.520 interview to go in dis direction. But I'm actually just 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:52.959 going to press you further on this specific point, which is, 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:56.640 what is your diagnosis of why certain countries do seem 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:58.439 to have given up? Was there a moment when you 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.639 felt it, for example, in the UK, was there a 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:04.800 moment where you felt the ambition is not the same 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:05.680 as it once worth. 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:12.680 It's interesting. I'm working on a project right now, and 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:19.719 so I'm with a team of relatively young architects, and 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:25.560 so I'm saying, well, in terms of domes, of course, 0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:29.960 it would be interesting to make a comparison with a 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.480 particular dome in the Festival of Britain nineteen fifty one, 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:38.600 and everybody looked at me quizzically and I said, but 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:41.920 you've never heard of it, because nobody ever heard of it. 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:46.200 So I said, well, check it out and the next 0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:50.680 meeting will talk about it. The next meeting they came 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:53.920 back and said, why didn't we know about that? This 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:57.959 was nineteen fifty one. It was the biggest dome in 0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:02.520 the world. It was demolih for political reasons. Interestingly, so 0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:07.120 they were in awe and the images, I mean no extraordinary. 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.760 So nineteen fifty one was it more or less hard 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:15.359 on the heels of World War II, and Brittain was 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:19.520 in true austerity mode. You still had rationing, so you 0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:22.080 had a little book and when you went to buy 0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:26.840 food or clothes then you could only buy depending on 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:31.159 the number of coupons like postage stamps that you'd got left. 0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:36.560 But that period was the first nuclear power station, was 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:41.320 the first commercial jet. It was the de Havelan Comet 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:48.080 was in terms of cars created the R type Bentley 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.960 one hundred and twenty miles an hour hour on hour. 0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:57.359 It costs twice two houses at that time, the semi detached, 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:02.520 So this was an extraordinary era. Now since then for 0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:06.880 a whole variety of reasons, many of them political. It's 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:13.840 no longer the leading at that level of innovation, manufacturing 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:18.879