1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: I know many of you out there are hungry for 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: more paranormal content these days. What if I told you 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: there is about to be a community just for fans 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: of ghosts and hauntings like us. For months, I've been 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: working on something incredible and I am so thrilled to 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: be releasing it into the wild. I'd like to be 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: the first to welcome you to the Paranormal Circle. Imagine 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: a place where you can access weekly live chats and 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: roundtable discussions about all things supernatural. Watch twenty four to 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: seven webcams positioned inside some of your favorite haunted locations. 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: In addition to that, you'll be able to watch and 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: assist during live streaming investigations with me and some of 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: my friends who you may recognize. You'll also be granted 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: access to an archive of evidence from these investigations, and 18 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: you can upload your own evidence for all of us 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: to weigh in on. Even more, you will be on 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: the list for private in person meetups plus dedicated Paranormal 21 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: Circle meetups at your favorite paranormal conventions. Strange escapes, retreats, 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: and comic cons. We've also worked with many of these 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: events and your favorite paranormal retailers to offer Paranormal Circle 24 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: only discounts. All of this, plus dedicated merchandise and swag 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: giveaways amounts to one really cool space for all of 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: us to enjoy together. If this sounds right up your 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: dark alley, then I'd like to personally invite you to 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: be one of the first to join the Paranormal Circle. 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: If you'd like to join the waiting list to be 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: one of the founding members of the Circle, head to 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: Amybrunie dot com and get on the list asap. We'll 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: be opening up membership this spring, and those on the 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: waiting list get first access. Again, all of this is 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: only accessible to Paranormal Circle members, so head to Amy 35 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: Bruney dot com and join the waiting list today. 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: Hello everyone, Hello, I'm not Amy Bruney. By the way, 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this because I'm not 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: drinking wine. That's the only defining factor right there. So Amy, 39 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: being the MC for this entire event, gets to introduce 40 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: all these different great sessions, but this one is her session, 41 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: and so it felt kind of appropriate for me to 42 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 3: get up here and say a couple of things. So 43 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 3: I loved this morning's talk from Amanda talking about how 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 3: important it was to understand sort of the history behind 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: the stories that we hear, because it's really helpful in 46 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 3: bringing those stories to life. 47 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: Right. 48 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: I talked about this with a lot of people yesterday 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 3: that when you if you just say there's the ghost 50 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 3: of a woman who gets seen in this room, always 51 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: walking through, it's spooky, but it's not the full story. 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: If you are first told, oh, by the way, the 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: wife of the guy who built the used to walk 54 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: through here all the time, or she had dinner in 55 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: here all the time, and this is the room that 56 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 3: she died in. I'm just making this up, by the way. 57 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: Then when you hear that there's always a woman seeing 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 3: in period clothing, it starts to come to life. 59 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: Right. 60 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 3: So that was the conversation that Amy and I were 61 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: having years ago, and we were talking about what kind 62 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 3: of a show could she have as a podcast? And 63 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: what I felt was this unbalanced history of lots and 64 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 3: lots of ghost hunting reporting, which is amazing and fine, 65 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: but it was like half of the story was going 66 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: into a place and having an experience with nothing in 67 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: history to anchor it to. And I said, you have 68 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: a much more emotional approach to these stories, and you're 69 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: connected to them more deeply. Wouldn't it be great if 70 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: there was a show where the first half of it 71 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: was basically teaching you the history of this location, the 72 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: people that were there, the lives that lived and loved 73 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: and were lost in all of that, and then shift 74 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: over to now, let's talk to somebody who's been there, 75 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: and you start to see the connections in those conversations. 76 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 3: So that's where Haunted Road was born. And so today 77 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: you get the joy of watching one of those live 78 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: Haunted Road shows that people talk about with Amy and Richard. 79 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: So let's bring Amy on up. 80 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: Thank you, Aaron, full circle. I love this. Welcome everyone. Now, 81 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: just a quick warning. We are recording, so you know 82 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: you're going to be recorded in infamy if you yell 83 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: out anything inappropriate. That's not common on the champagne that's 84 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: sitting in front of me. Thank you, ladies. But I 85 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: do want to give a content warning because today's case 86 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: this is pretty heavy. So I just want to let 87 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: you know we're dealing with serial killers, murder, really, really 88 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: awful stuff. So, without further ado, let's get started. In 89 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties, a news story ran on a 90 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: local affiliate in Indiana. A gentleman had brought to light 91 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: something he felt was unjust and unfair, and he wanted 92 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: the world to know. You see, he and his son 93 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: had watched a truck belonging to the Indiana State Highway 94 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: Department striping the side of the road with yellow lines. 95 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: To his apparent horror, there was a roadkill on the 96 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: side of the road, a hapless raccoon, and what do 97 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, that truck striped right over it. The man 98 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: happened to have a polaroid camera with him, so he 99 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: took photos of the raccoon that was now apparently one 100 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: with the roadway. Then he proceeded to contact the Highway 101 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: Department and the local news on camera. During a beautiful 102 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: sunny day, this man stood in front of his property, 103 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: telling the local reporter that the raccoon deserved better. How 104 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 1: dare that little fella end up with such a fate? 105 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: In turn, the Highway Department was interviewed, acknowledging their terrible 106 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: mistake and saying it was an icelated incident. The irony here, however, 107 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: is strong. The man in the interview, his name was 108 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: Herb Baumeister, and behind him on that property at the 109 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: very moment he lamented the fate of that poor raccoon, 110 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: where the rotting remains of at least eleven men he 111 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: had killed, dismembered and tried to hide. This is the 112 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: story of fox Hollow Farm. I'm Amy Bruney, and this 113 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:38,799 Speaker 1: is Haunted Road. The main house at fox Hollow Farm 114 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: looks like anything but a farmhouse. The stately Tudor style manner, 115 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: with white walls and brown trim, is surrounded on every 116 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: side by trees. Visitors can book tours or rent it 117 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: as a wedding venue for an elegant country affair. Although 118 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: developers are building new houses nearby, the home fields secluded 119 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: thanks to its long driveway and fences. Inside, the wood 120 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: walls and ceilings are warm and inviting. Brightly colored rugs 121 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: carry guests past plush furniture. Up the stairs, visitors can 122 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: find the library, stained glass lined study, and master bedroom. 123 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: Sunlight streams in through the big windows, which hold a 124 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: view of the woods out back. Thanks to the new 125 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: construction projects, you can see the neighboring houses peeking through 126 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: the trees, but a few decades ago it would have 127 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: been easy to feel like the house was alone in 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: a dense forest. The bottom floor has a pool surrounded 129 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: by even more windows. Guests can enjoy a drink from 130 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,559 Speaker 1: the wet bar while admiring the view of the tree 131 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: filled backyard. The idyllic Fox Hollow Farm is nestled in Westfield, Indiana, 132 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: which is just about a half hour north of Indianapolis. Honestly, 133 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: this small city sounds a bit like Paradise. For most 134 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: of its existence, it was a rural farming community, but 135 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties the population exploded thanks to its 136 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: great reputation. In a history of Westfield, Indiana, author Tom 137 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: Rumor notes that Westfield was known for its great career opportunities, 138 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: athletic facilities, and a generally high quality of life. Around 139 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: the same time, nearby Indianapolis was a hub for gay 140 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: culture in the Midwest. Residents and visitors could find safety 141 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: and support in the twelve gay bars that got at 142 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: the city, but homophobia was still very common in the 143 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, even in gay friendly communities like Indianapolis. So 144 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: when numerous gay men disappeared in rapid succession, the police 145 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: barely paid any attention. Sarah Murrell noted in The Hunter 146 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: of Fox Hollow that at least ten gay men were 147 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: reported missing between nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four. 148 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: They all were adults who were thirty five or younger, 149 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 1: were last seen in bars, and had what she called 150 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: a clean cut, preppy look. Then, Roger Allan Goodlett and 151 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: Alan Wayne Brossard went missing in the summer of nineteen 152 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: ninety four. Their families weren't content to wait around for 153 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: the police to take the case seriously. They hired a 154 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: private detective, Virgil Vandergriff to dig into the mystery. Later 155 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: that year, Virgil found a major clue that the police 156 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: had missed a survivor with a harrowing story that hinted 157 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: at what might have become of the missing men. The 158 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: witness's name was Mark Goodyear, and he told Virgil he 159 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: went home with a man calling himself Brian Smart after 160 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: meeting him at a bar. According to Vic Reichhardt's reporting 161 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: on WRTV, Mark State took him to a nice home 162 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: in the suburbs that had its own swimming pool. The 163 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: pair sat by the pool, enjoying drinks from the wet bar, 164 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: but Mark was stricken by the strange decor choices. Sarah Murels, 165 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: the hunter at Fox Hollow, notes that Mark told the 166 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: PI the house was filled with boxes and the pool 167 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: was surrounded by clothed Mannikins, but this was far from 168 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: the eerious detail from his date. After Mark and Brian 169 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: did some drugs, Brian suggested the experiment with erotic asphyxiation. However, 170 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: once he wrapped a swimming pool hose around Mark's neck, 171 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: the play grew too rough for Mark. Brian refused to 172 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: let go of the hose until Mark pretended to pass 173 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: out from a lack of oxygen. Later, when Mark opened 174 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: his eyes and acted like he was just waking up, 175 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: he noticed that Brian seemed nervous and uncomfortable. Somehow, he 176 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: convinced Brian to take him back home, which was very lucky. 177 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: Mark may not have realized it then, but his partner 178 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: had a history of strangling other dates to death. This 179 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: wasn't Mark's only bout of good luck. A year later, 180 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, he spotted Brian at a bar. 181 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: He immediately recognized his old attacker and figured out which 182 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: car he'd driven there, except when detectives ran the license 183 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: plate number, they found the vehicle didn't belong to Brian Smart. 184 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: The man had given Mark a fake name. His real 185 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: identity was Herbert Baumer, and he and his wife lived 186 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: in a large suburban house outside of town on an 187 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: acreage known as Fox Hollow Farm. It was a perfect 188 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: match for the residence Mark had described to Virgil Vandergriff. 189 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: When police confronted Herbert and asked to search his property, 190 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: he flat out refused to let them in. Once it 191 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: was clear he wouldn't cooperate, the police had tried to 192 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: convince Herbert's wife, Julie, to let them search her house instead. 193 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: Initially Julie was resistant, but eventually she agreed to cooperate. 194 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: This was likely because her marriage to Herbert was crumbling. 195 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: Their sex life was nonexistent. Courtney Hardwick's article within magazine 196 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: notes that Julie and Herbert had only had sex a 197 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: handful of times in their twenty five years of marriage. 198 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: As the pair navigated their split, Herbert moved out of 199 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: the main house but continued living in a small apartment 200 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: over the garage. Julie secured full custody of their three children, 201 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: and took out a restraining order against her husband, perhaps 202 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: because of his history of violent faith of anger. She 203 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: also knew Herbert had mental health struggles, as he'd spent 204 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: more than a month committed to a psychiatric facilities soon 205 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: after their wedding. Throughout their marriage, Herbert had bounced from 206 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: job to job. His erratic tendencies made coworkers uneasy and 207 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: often got him in trouble. According to a J. Wiseman 208 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: writing for crime Beat, at some point he was diagnosed 209 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: with schizophrenia and a personality disorder, but it doesn't seem 210 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: that this led to a viable treatment or any significant 211 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: improvement in his behavior. Still, Julie had never imagined Herbert 212 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: would cheat on her with men, let alone kill his 213 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: extramarital partners. Even when their son had found a human 214 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: skull behind their home and Herbert told the bizarre story 215 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: to explain its presence, she hadn't suspected anything now, though 216 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: she realized he had ample opportunity to kill, as she 217 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: and the children often took lengthy trips in the summer, 218 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: leaving Herbert alone at home, and when she learned of 219 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: all the evidence the homicide detectives had against her husband, 220 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: Julie was willing to cooperate with her permission. Police searched 221 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farm on June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety six. 222 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: They found the setup was exactly like what Mark Goodyear 223 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: had described to the Private Eye. The house was filled 224 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: with boxes, while clothed mannequins stood around the indoor swimming 225 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: pool with a wet bar nearby. And in the yard 226 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: and the woods that surrounded the house, they uncovered roughly 227 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: ten thousand human bone fragments. That's not counting the impact 228 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: bones they unearthed as well. Some appear to be burnt. 229 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: In WRTV Vick Reichert's report, he says Herbert disposed of 230 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: his victims by immolating their bodies, then smashing their bones 231 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: and scattering all that remained across the farm. He also 232 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: may have incorporated bits of broken bone into the gravel 233 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: he used to landscape the yard. But the horrific scene 234 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: at Fox Hollow Farm it may not have been all 235 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: Herbert's handiwork. Richard Estepp and Robert Graves wrote in the 236 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm, Unraveling the History and Hauntings 237 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: of a serial killer's home, that wild animals may have 238 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: also been to blame in some cases. After he killed 239 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: his victims, Herbert would hide their bodies in an outdoor 240 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: pile of mulch. Then scavengers from the nearby woodlands would 241 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: tear apart the decomposing corpses. Investigators found eleven different left thumbbones, 242 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: so we know Herbert had at least that many victims 243 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: in his yard. Most estimates put the kill count closer 244 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: to twenty five, though it's hard to be too specific 245 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: as many of the skeleton's police were covered were incomplete. 246 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety nine, the officials managed to identify eight 247 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: of Herbert's victims, all had gone missing between nineteen ninety 248 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: three and nineteen ninety five. He's also a top suspect 249 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: in numerous other missing person cases and unsolved murders, including 250 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: of nine individuals who were killed before Herbert moved to 251 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: wa ust Field, but people are still finding evidence on 252 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: the property today. A new bone was recently discovered in 253 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: December twenty twenty two, and another victim was confirmed just 254 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: this past October. As for Herbert Baumeister, he fled the 255 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: country as soon as he learned about the detective's successful search. 256 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: He was never arrested or brought to formal justice, but 257 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: Herbert did not remain free for long. On July third, 258 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, a week and a half after the 259 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: remains were discovered, he killed himself in Canada. Before his death, 260 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: a witness saw Herbert in his car with a box 261 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: of VHS tapes, tapes that have gone missing since his suicide. 262 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: It's impossible to say what footage they contained, but police 263 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: believe he filmed some of his murders. It's thought he 264 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: destroyed the tapes before taking his own life. When his 265 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: body was found, he laid near an altar made of sand, 266 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: which was decorated with dead birds. According to private investigator 267 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: Virgil Vandergriff, Herbert left a suicide note that closed by 268 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: saying I AM going to eat a peanut butter sandwich 269 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: and go to sleep. However, if rumors are to be believed, 270 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: he did not rest in peace afterward. It said Herbert 271 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: still haunts the Fox Hollow Farm. His spirit, as well 272 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: as a shadow figure, had been spotted peering out the 273 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: upstairs bathroom window or lurking near the pool pump room, 274 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: and many visitors get an uneasy feeling or perceive a 275 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: presence with them in the pool room and the master bedroom. 276 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: It's been said that when Herbert lived at Fox Hollow Farm, 277 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: he often locked himself out and knocked on the door 278 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: late at night so his wife or children would hear 279 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: and open it for him. Since his death, at least 280 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: one resident, Joe LeBlanc, reported he often heard knocking on 281 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: the door, always at one forty five in the morning, 282 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: and always seven knocks in short succession. Joe also describes 283 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: one unnerving incident where he stepped into the kitchen only 284 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: to find all his knives had been pulled out and 285 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: set on the counter. Afterward, he found new cut marks 286 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: on the walls. Another time, Joe felt hands clasped his 287 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: neck while he was swimming in the pool. It's understandable 288 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: that the pool would be a hotbed for spiritual activity. 289 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: This is where Herbert attacked Mark Goodyear according to his 290 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: testimony to the PI, and police believe Herbert strangled numerous 291 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: other victims there too, so it's understandable that their restless 292 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: spirits still remain near its waters. When visitors take a dip, 293 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: they may hear someone knocking on the door, but when 294 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: they answer, there's no one there, and a recent homeowner 295 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: was trying to vacuum in the pool room, only for 296 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: the plug to keep yanking out of the outlet, even 297 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: though the cord was loose and she wasn't tugging on it. Additionally, 298 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: a man in a red t shirt has been spotted 299 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: on the farm numerous times. He often walks into the woods, 300 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: only visible from the waist up. Joe LeBlanc said on 301 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: one occasion, his dog chased the man in red deeper 302 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: into the forest, only for the figure to vanish then 303 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: reappear in a new location. There are also reports of 304 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: a frightened man running for his life through the apartment. 305 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: When Joe LeBlanc looked at a photo of one of 306 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: Herbert's victims, he was stricken by how similar the picture 307 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: was to that fleeing spirit. Besides these apparitions, paranormal investigators 308 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: at Fox Hollow Farm pick up EVPs and hear voices, 309 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: footsteps and bangs. Electrical equipment tends to die quickly on 310 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: the property, and lights flicker while doors open and close 311 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: on their own. But some of these incidents may have 312 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: nothing to do with Herbert Baumeister and his murders. Many 313 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: guests have described a figure in the woods, darting from 314 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: tree to tree that's believed to be an inhuman spirit. 315 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: In their book The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm, Richard 316 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: Estep and Robert Graves described this entity as blacker than black, 317 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: and on multiple occasions psychic said they'd made contact with 318 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: an anonymous figure. This being, whoever or whatever it is, 319 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: reportedly pretends to be the ghost of Herbert Baumeister, but 320 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: according to these mediums, his actual spirit isn't anywhere near 321 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: Fox Hollow Farm. In light of this, it's safe to 322 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: say there's far more to this property than meets the eye. Today, 323 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: I just happened to have the perfect guest to speak 324 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: on this case. We are joined by my good friend 325 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: Richard Estep, who has investigated and studied fox Hellow Farm 326 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: for quite some time and actually has a book on 327 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: it which I've quoted a couple of times. Mister Estep, welcome, 328 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: come on down. Hello, Hi, there is this on, Yes 329 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: it is. I'm so excited to have you here. I 330 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: don't normally, sorry, like I don't normally get to have 331 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: someone who's actually written a book on the location on 332 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: haunted Roads. I'm very excited. I am horrified that I 333 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: did not really know about this case before people started 334 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: talking about investigating there, Like, why do you I mean, obviously, 335 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: I think the obvious is why that happened, But like, 336 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: how do you think that affects the activity there overall? 337 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: How do I think the activity is affected by the 338 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: fact that it's not very well known. It's surprising, right 339 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: because if you log onto Netflix or any of the 340 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 2: streaming services, you know, it seems so many serial killers 341 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: have their TV series, their many series, their stories are told. 342 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: Fox Hollow seems to have flown under the radar for 343 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: so long. 344 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: It's wild to me. And like I was when so 345 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 1: you showed me that YouTube video of this gentleman of 346 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: Herbert like on the news, and he has this almost grin, 347 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: like he knows he's doing something, he knows what he's doing, 348 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: Like what do you think was going on in his 349 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: head at that moment. 350 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 2: Having interviewed people that knew her about mystet and were 351 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: close to him, gave me some insight into his state 352 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: of mind, and someone who knew him very well said, 353 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: he is absolutely getting his jollies on the fact that 354 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: look at my left hand. Here, look at this pay 355 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 2: attention to this board deadon and slyly enjoying the fact 356 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: that right behind him in those trees that you can 357 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 2: see just out of camera shop are the remains of 358 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 2: these poor men that he's murdered. He's the only one 359 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: that knows this, and the rest of us are all 360 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 2: fools for paying attention to the raccoon. 361 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it is. If you get a chance, 362 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: people listening, look up that video, because it's absolutely haunting 363 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: knowing what this man did and how he's really playing 364 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: to like this poor raccoon. It's bizarre. But on that note, 365 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: just kind of the activity that happens there. What is 366 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: going on there now? Like I know there's a development 367 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: going in. What are people like, what's happening on that property? 368 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: Well, Foxhlo had after I left and finished the book, 369 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 2: Foxhollow quietened down. I was really happy to hear that 370 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: because the idea of these poor men, these poor souls. 371 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 2: I could care less about Herbert Baumeister, but those poor men, 372 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: you know, not getting a traditional burial really disturbed me. 373 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 2: And so the idea that the activity was starting to 374 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 2: wind down I thought was one of the you know, 375 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 2: maybe some pieces at last coming to that location. And 376 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: then the land or a portion of the land was 377 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: sold for development. So now property development is happening on 378 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 2: Fox Hollow Farmer. As we all know, that can be 379 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 2: a catalyst for paranormal activity to ramp up again. 380 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: So what kind of activity are people experiencing there? I 381 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: touched on it a little bit, but just kind of 382 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: can you go into more detail of what happens there 383 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: and how often? 384 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely so, the house sat vacant after Herb Baumeister's family 385 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: moved out. The only occupants, ironically were raccoons in the attic. 386 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: Oh gosh. And so a couple called Rob and Vicki 387 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 2: brook Graves and their children bought the house. They had 388 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: to be okay with the fact that all those murders 389 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: had happened there, and they were the very rational people. 390 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: Rob is a coroner to give you an idea, and 391 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: Vicky also works in the medical field as a scientist. 392 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 2: And Vicki was actually the first person to see the 393 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 2: young man in the red shirt disappear into the woods 394 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: and later identified him from news real footage as one 395 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 2: of the victims, and the same victim Jola Blank had 396 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 2: seen in the woods also, so we had corroboration there. 397 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: So that's how things started. Jola Blank, the lodger when 398 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 2: he moved in, was of the same age as many 399 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: of Baumeister's preferred victims, and so that is a great 400 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 2: catalyst for the haunting to kick off and to high gear. 401 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: Joe has since moved out, and that may be a 402 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: factor in why things have in fact calmed down at Foxhollow. 403 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 2: But the whole gamut of paranormal activity, from the phantom footsteps, 404 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 2: the voices, apparitions, anything in the Paranormal Investigators playbook has 405 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: happened at that farm at some point since the death 406 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: of Herb Baumeister. 407 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: Now are they allowing investigations or is this just kind 408 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: of like a special thing that you were allowed in there, 409 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: Like it's I imagine it's not like a commercial endeavor 410 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: of theirs. 411 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: I mean no, no, it's you can't rent Fox Hollow 412 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: Farm and investigate there. There was a time when it 413 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 2: was opened to paranormal investigators. There were some objections on 414 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 2: the part of the local government, the city, and I 415 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: totally understand why most serial killer locations where the murders 416 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: took place, you know, thinking about like Dama's apartment or 417 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: wherever they are quite rightly pulled down and demolished because 418 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: who wants them to be a shrine to something ghoulish? 419 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 2: But Fox Hollow is still a working family residence. It's beautiful, 420 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: and I rather like the idea that a family can 421 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: take this horrible, negative energy and replace it with good, 422 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: you know. 423 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've talked about that in the past. 424 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: How kind of unfairly sometimes locations become defined by terrible 425 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: things that happened there. We're talking about homes, hotels, you know, 426 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: national landmarks. You know, something terrible happens and it kind of, 427 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: in our minds anyway, negates every bit of good that 428 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: ever happened there. So I do like the idea of it, 429 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: you know, becoming something else and that energy overtaking what 430 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: happened there over the years. 431 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. We just saw this at your Strange Escapes Bendngettysburg, 432 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: which was awesome by the way, with the orphanage, which 433 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 2: you know, there are stories of terrible mistreatment of children there, 434 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: but that's a small percentage of that building's history. You 435 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 2: have many years of people being happy there at being 436 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: a museum. Fox Hollow now is a family home and 437 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 2: although there is I believe still paranormal activity taking place. 438 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 2: The Graves family and their children bring all this kind 439 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: of love and light and joy. I hope that stain 440 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: can be erased. 441 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: Now it's fairly recent. I mean, this is a pretty 442 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: recent case. How do you think that the relatives of 443 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: the victims feel about this potentially being a place where 444 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: there's paranormal activity. 445 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: This is probably the book I've agonized most about writing 446 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: and came closest never to writing, simply because I was 447 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: concerned with these murders taking place in the eighties and 448 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 2: the nineties. The interstate murders Bameister did were in the eighties, 449 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: and I really agonized over it, and I came to 450 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: the conclusion that these poor men, many of them are unnamed. 451 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: We have some of the names only because these are 452 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 2: gay men that disappeared from Indianapolis bars around that time, 453 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: and we're never seen again, and so their stories were 454 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: always going to be untold. They were always they were 455 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 2: going to be allowed to be forgotten, and sadly some 456 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: of them are. And some of these men are sitting 457 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: in boxes in storage as opposed to being buried. So 458 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: the activity would not have gone away had I not 459 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: written the book. The last thing I wanted to do 460 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: was upset any of the family members of those victims, 461 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: but I felt the story needed to be told, if 462 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 2: only so that we can keep an eye out for 463 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 2: the next Herb Baumeister and maybe see some of the 464 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: warning signs. 465 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very fair. Actually I didn't because you know, 466 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: many times when we're investigating a location, kind of the 467 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: solution for spirits is acknowledgment or you know, resolution in 468 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: some way figuring out what happened or why they're there, 469 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: or who they are. And so I guess there is 470 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: something to be said for that that, you know, acknowledging 471 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: them in this book and really getting that story out 472 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: there could over time help the level panormal activity there. Now, 473 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: what do you think about these new houses? What do 474 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: you think is going to happen there? I'm very curious. 475 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 2: I am too, to tell you the truth, because as 476 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 2: you pointed out, you know, the bones were spread far 477 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: and wide. This is kind of an odd thing to say, 478 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 2: but in December, I'm having a dental procedure done. A 479 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: piece of cadaver bone is being implanted into my gum, 480 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 2: which was great until I move in the same circles 481 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: as you guys. Right. So one of my friends to 482 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: call of three seconds to say you're going to have 483 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: a haunted mouth, you know, And I thought about it 484 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 2: for a second, and I'm like, that's awful, but it 485 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: makes me wonder because the remains were spread so far 486 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: and wide by the nocturnal critters of Fox Hollow, I 487 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 2: would be surprised if that disturbance didn't cause some effect. 488 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: That being said, though the land has been has been blessed, 489 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: you know, there are people that have gone out there 490 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: to try and mitigate the activity as best as possible. 491 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: We're just going to have to wait and see. 492 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: I know, I'm very curious. And also, how did you 493 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: get a cadaver out? Like? Pig bone in my jaw? 494 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: So I'm haunted by a pig? 495 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: I can request the change? 496 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: Yes, well I'm vegetarians. I was very conflicted. But anyways, 497 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: ex I know that's it. I'm done, okay now. Because 498 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: many of these victims remain nameless, I do worry and 499 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: wonder if over time they are going to become more 500 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: kind of especially like you know, now that they know 501 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: that they can be heard. I wonder if over time 502 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: that activity is going to ramp up in any way 503 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: you know, in addition obviously to building things like, what 504 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: else do you think could trigger this to kind of 505 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: ramp up again, or you know, kind of put these 506 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: people in these new houses or in the farm at 507 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: risk of experiencing more extreme activity. 508 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 2: It's a great question, and one thing is attention. So 509 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: for example, a case I worked in the UK, the 510 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: Black Monk of Pontifract case, was a Poltic guiz case 511 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: dating back to the sixties, which was national news. All 512 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: died down in the twenty tens. They made a movie 513 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 2: about it called When the Lights Went Out. Interest in 514 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 2: the House exploded. It is now the most requested paranormal 515 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: rental venue in the United Kingdom. And that's sixty years 516 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: after the initial Poltergeist outbreak, right, And. 517 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's just it. People come in, 518 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: they start talking about it and bringing it up, and 519 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: I feel like that wakes up something, you know, Like 520 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: I kind of drawing on another case, I think of Maplecroft, 521 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: which is what you know, Elizabeth Lizzie Borden bought that 522 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: house and now a family lives there and supposely it's 523 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: not haunted at all. But when we were all investigating it, 524 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: Elizabeth was very much like, hey, let's talk, you know. 525 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder like if people start paying 526 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: more attention to this, if it's going to draw out 527 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: some type of activity, well. 528 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: And it also may not be what it appears to be, because, 529 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: as you know, being a very seasoned investigator, egre goals 530 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: are a thing, thought forms are a thing, and sometimes 531 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: these stories take on a life of their own. I 532 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: think for any paranormal investigator, there is a danger in 533 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: assuming that what we're being told is in fact the 534 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 2: truth the techniques we use, no matter how how you 535 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: attempt spirit communication with EVPs or whatever it may be. 536 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: It's the equivalent of a nineteen nineties Yahoo Internet chat room. Right, 537 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 2: you only have their word that they are who they 538 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: say they are. There's no verification method. 539 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: That is very fair. Now, do you think there is 540 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: at some point a chance that some of these unidentified 541 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: victims might be identified through paranormal evidence or investigation. 542 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 2: I know that there are people out there that flatly 543 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: refuse to accept that that can happen if we can 544 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: get names. That's something I don't like the idea that 545 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 2: these men are nameless, so many of them, and we 546 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 2: don't have an accurate number, and we can't have an 547 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 2: accurate number. We only have a minimum count because of 548 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: the number of unique thumb bones that were discovered at 549 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: Fox the number could be grossly higher. So if we 550 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: can just get names that can be validated, that would 551 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: be a huge start. 552 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I'm hoping that with DNA and everything 553 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: that they can start really gets into these bones and 554 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: figuring out who these poor people are. You actually investigated there, correct, Now, 555 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: what would you say was the most kind of disturbing 556 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: type of activity or more at most, I don't want 557 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: to say disturbing, but like the most kind of thought 558 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: provoking bit of paranormal activity you experienced while there. 559 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: There were several things. Actually, one of the more memorable 560 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: is the pool. Now, the ball at Fox Hollow Farm 561 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 2: is freezing. As I tell you about it, I can 562 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 2: I'm getting the shivers, not the fact that so many 563 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: men died in it, but of how cold it was. 564 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 2: Because I was there in November, I believe it was. 565 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 2: And the owner of the farm, Rob said he liked you, Richard. 566 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 2: I like you, but it cost me hundreds of dollars 567 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 2: to heat this pool, and it takes a few weeks, 568 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: and I don't like you that much, so you can 569 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: go in and I will roll back the pool cover. 570 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: But the bull's going to be cold. And so I 571 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: got into the pool. It was freezing cold. My teeth 572 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 2: were chattering. We recorded the sound of a growl in 573 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 2: the pool area, and more concerningly was a whispered EVP 574 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: one word. And I should tell you that as we 575 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 2: were in there, I'd been told by someone who knew 576 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: her very well his favorite song was Blue by You 577 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: by Linda Ronstack. So we played that song and I 578 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 2: was swimming in the pool feeling very self conscious, and 579 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 2: played back the audio afterwards, and just a single whispered word, 580 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 2: and that word was Laura, which is my wife's name. 581 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: And there is no Laura connected with Fox Hollow. There 582 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: was no Laura present at the time. My wife's far 583 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 2: too smart to go swim in haunted pools. And so 584 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: that felt very personal to me, almost as if hey, 585 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: I know things about your nearest and dearest. 586 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's the beginning of a horror movie 587 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: right there. To be honest, you know, you swimming in 588 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: this freezing cold, haunted pool and the ghost is telling 589 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: you the name of your wife's back at home. So 590 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: that makes me wonder, do you think that's Herb or 591 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: do you think that that's I mean, who is that? 592 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: Who? That's a great question, isn't it. And I think 593 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: it would be an assumption to say that it was Herb. 594 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: I do not know who it was one of the 595 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: other aspects. Because the ball and the kind of woods 596 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: outside are the ground zero for the haunting, it makes 597 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 2: sense that's where most of the lives were taken. I'd 598 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: heard that Rob had brought a friend home from work 599 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: one day, and he had a young son, and so, 600 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 2: you know, it was just showing him around the place. Now, 601 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 2: you don't tell young children we're going to the place 602 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: where all the men were murdered, right, you don't. So 603 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: they were wandering around the pool and this young kid 604 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: is like, it's a cool, it's a bool, it's cool. 605 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 2: And there is a pump room. And I happened to 606 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: know that Herb had used that room to lay out 607 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 2: the bodies of his victims once they were dead, before 608 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 2: he disposed of them. And so Rob and his friend 609 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 2: were walking around the pool. They passed the open pump 610 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 2: room door and the little boy just said, sh the 611 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: man's sleeping in there. So Rob's colleague was like, we're 612 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 2: leaving and thanks and goodbye. Wow, off they go. So 613 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 2: I go to instigate the pump room with some of 614 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 2: my friends. We sit in there. It's noisy, you know, 615 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 2: as you would imagine with all this machinery. I'm wearing 616 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 2: a T shirt because I've gone back and it's now summer, 617 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 2: and I can feel it now as we're talking, Amy, 618 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: I felt fingertips just stroke my bear tricep in a 619 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 2: very a caressing kind of way that just turns my stomach. 620 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 2: I know what I felt absolutely wasn't a spider or 621 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 2: a cobweb or anything of that nature. I don't know 622 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: what it was, but it felt very much like fingertips 623 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 2: a caress. 624 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: Okay, now, okay, Jens, is the house does it look 625 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: like it looked then? Have they changed anything? 626 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 2: Almost nothing? It's almost identical, identical to how it was. 627 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 2: Then Herb's desk is there, his library is there. Herb 628 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 2: was a landrover, a ficionado. So there are land rover 629 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 2: owner's manuals, Haynes manuals with handwritten notes by Herb in 630 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: that library. You know, Rob the uses Herb's bathroom sleeps 631 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: in herb's bed, like it's almost a. 632 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: Time whin it's an actual bed. 633 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 2: I do believe so. Yeah, the hose, the pullhose that's 634 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 2: hanging in the pump room is the original one, which 635 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: means that was actually the murder weapon in a number 636 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 2: of cases, was never taken into evidence. It's still there. 637 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: I find that alarming, you know, I feel like I 638 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: would want to I wouldn't want to share anything with 639 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: this person, like, and he's not the first person to 640 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: do that either, right, Like it's changed hands a couple 641 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: of times. Why do you think that is that? I'm 642 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: not I mean no disrespect of this person. I'm sure 643 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: they're lovely, But why is my question? 644 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 2: Why keep things the way that they are? Yeah? 645 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: Why keep his belongings or keep like why have any 646 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: evidence of this horrible thing that happened there? And I 647 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: feel like that might even, you know, affect the haunting 648 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: in some way. 649 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 2: You know, Rubs an interesting man, and I definitely count 650 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: him as a friend. I had wanted to ask him, 651 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 2: how do you live? Him? Man? How do you live 652 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 2: in this house? I slept down in that but I couldn't. 653 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 2: I could not live there. As beautiful as it is. 654 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: I would be at the foot of the stairs by 655 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: the pool, looking up to the kitchen, and I would 656 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 2: just think how many men came down these stairs and 657 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: never came back up. I couldn't get past that. Rob 658 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: has his own little bubble, and to this day, at 659 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 2: least the last time I spoke to him, does not 660 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 2: believe in ghosts. His wife totally convinced. She's the lady 661 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 2: who had the vacuum flex pulled out multiple times, you know. 662 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 2: So I asked him, Rob, how do you live here? 663 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 2: And he said, ah, you know, I kind of mind 664 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 2: my own business, and I see things out of the 665 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: corner of my eyes sometimes. His wife, on the other hand, 666 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: is like, oh no, I see young men with no 667 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 2: legs in the woods. I'm sold. I believe wow. And 668 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 2: he's that's just his view on the world and it 669 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 2: doesn't bother him. And maybe it's the fact that, you know, 670 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: Rob does work in the coroner's field and has callouses 671 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 2: that some people just don't. I don't mean that in 672 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: a bad way, No, that's fair. 673 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I just feel like I would not 674 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: have a problem living in a house like that, but 675 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: I would want to change things. I would not want 676 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: to look at an area and think this was the 677 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: last thing a number of people saw, you know, and 678 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: I would probably obsess a little too much about what 679 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: happened there. And so maybe that's why the activity isn't so, 680 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: you know, kind of off the charts. It's because there 681 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: is someone living there who is not kind of dwelling 682 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: on it and not you know, hashing it out all 683 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: the time. 684 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: And I hope that it brings some stability. I mean, 685 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 2: talk about brave people for a moment. When the Graves 686 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 2: go on vacation, they have a house sitter. I don't 687 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 2: know how much they pay her, but I don't think 688 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 2: it's enough. 689 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: Probably not. I mean, does everyone know what happened? Everyone 690 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: local has to know. 691 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 2: In fact, locally there was some resentment that the house 692 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: still stands, and I understand this. There was some hope 693 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 2: that they could put money together and in fact just 694 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 2: demolish the house. They see it as a stain on 695 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: the area, and I get that one hundred percent. I 696 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 2: really really do. People sometimes come to that area just 697 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 2: for to come by the gate of Fox Hollow, the 698 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 2: wooden sign that was there doing the Baumeister ownership Fox 699 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: Olive Farm. It's now iconic is still there, and so 700 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 2: people will stop, they'll pose with pictures, all those kind 701 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: of things. You can't go down the drive, nor should 702 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 2: you try. You should not trespass there. But this is 703 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 2: an area of interest for so many people, and I 704 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 2: don't think that's ever going to go away, and I 705 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 2: do understand why. 706 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 1: People don't like it, right right, Okay, well, very fair, 707 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: Well Richard, I want to thank you. Now tell me 708 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: we'll tell everybody, like, how can people find you? I'm 709 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: very familiar with your work, but please tell tell the 710 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: world what you do and where to find mister Estep. 711 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 2: Absolutely thanks for listening everyone. You can find me online 712 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 2: at Richard Estep dot net, Facebook, Richard Deestep, author, Twitter, 713 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: Stepa and I like to find cases like this, investigate 714 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 2: them and try and tell their stories, and I hope 715 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 2: some of you will choose to join me on that journey. 716 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, Richard is a writing machine. His books are amazing, 717 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: and I think you are bringing some very important stories 718 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: to light. So I really enjoy you and I want 719 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: to thank you for coming, so thank you so much. 720 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: The story of Herbert Baumeister is a tragedy, not only 721 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: because of the lives he took, but also because he 722 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: got away with it for so long. Who knows how 723 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: many people would have been saved if the police had 724 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: taken the pattern of missing persons. More seriously, we can 725 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: never give the victims their lives back or restore the 726 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: years they lost at Herb's hands, but by telling their 727 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: story now, we hope to honor their loss and show 728 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: our respect to their spirits. I'm Amy Bruney and this 729 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: was Haunted Road. Thank you, guys. Haunted Road is hosted 730 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 1: and written by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by 731 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: Cassandra de Alba. This show is edited and produced by 732 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: Rima Alkali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers 733 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: Aaron Menke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is 734 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaronmanke. 735 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: Learn more about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, 736 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 737 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.