Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: What do presidents know about UFOs? What are they told?
Speaker 2: If anything? Do the Intel agencies and Pentagon hold back
Speaker 2: the truth even from their boss? Grant Cameron has probably
Speaker 2: dug into presidents and UFOs more than anyone on the planet.
Speaker 2: He became involved in ufology back in nineteen seventy five
Speaker 2: with a personal sighting of an object which became known
Speaker 2: as Charlie Redstar. Those sightings occurred in Manitoba. In the
Speaker 2: past few years, he's turned his research interest to the
Speaker 2: involvement and actions of the president on the UFO problem.
Speaker 2: He's made twenty plus trips to the National Archives to
Speaker 2: dig up information and documents. His latest book, or should
Speaker 2: I say books plural, Jimmy Carter Paranormal and UFO Tales,
Speaker 2: just out now. Grant, so glad to have you back
Speaker 2: on the program. It's been a while, George, thank you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: No joke.
Speaker 4: You've done more research into presidents and UFOs than I
Speaker 4: think anyone in the world. And it's a central question,
Speaker 4: what did they know? When did they learn it? Do
Speaker 4: presidents get a UFO briefing? You know, we've heard more
Speaker 4: in the last few years from presidents and ex presidents
Speaker 4: than I remember ever hearing. I mean Obama, Bush, Trump, Clinton,
Speaker 4: Missus Clinton who ran for president. They're all interested in
Speaker 4: the subject. All of them asked questions, I guess when
Speaker 4: they could. So we'll dive into the question of briefings
Speaker 4: in a bit, but let's start with you when you
Speaker 4: started to focus on presidents and why.
Speaker 3: Well, it goes back to my sightings in nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 3: where the first one I saw, it was almost like
Speaker 3: they wanted to make sure that there was no question
Speaker 3: as to what I was looking at. So I never
Speaker 3: really went down the path of sightings. I knew exactly
Speaker 3: what I had seen. Second night, I think flew right
Speaker 3: at me. But as it was flying away the second night,
Speaker 3: it came at me and then it made sort of
Speaker 3: turn and it sort of flew off, and there was
Speaker 3: a bunch of people there and a guy with a
Speaker 3: camera and people yelling and screaming. It was like a pandemonium.
Speaker 3: And I remember this flying away. I thought, ah could
Speaker 3: be extra trestraw. I thought like, wow, it's like being
Speaker 3: in the Bible here, and it's like some miracle you
Speaker 3: just saw. And then I'm thinking, like, what's it doing?
Speaker 3: Like why is it in Carmen, Manitoba. There's nothing there?
Speaker 3: And I'm thinking then, So for years it sort of
Speaker 3: bothered me. And I got all the sightings together of
Speaker 3: this town and half the people in town, over half
Speaker 3: the people in town had seen this thing. Nobody wanted
Speaker 3: to talk about it, but I eventually would track down
Speaker 3: people and they would tell me what they'd seen. So
Speaker 3: I put it together in the manuscript, and the local publisher,
Speaker 3: who should have published it because this was a big story,
Speaker 3: said mister Cameron, you may believe in this kind of stuff,
Speaker 3: count me among the unbelievers. And I was shocked. I
Speaker 3: just couldn't believe that that, you know, they wouldn't run
Speaker 3: with this big story. I thought, this is the biggest
Speaker 3: story in the world. That would you know, make million
Speaker 3: dollars from this and all this stuff? And it went nowhere.
Speaker 3: And so it was that question, like what are you
Speaker 3: doing in Carmen, Manitoba. And then it was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm just a small guy in Canada and I saw
Speaker 3: this thing, and all I want to know is what
Speaker 3: was that thing I saw? I know, for a fact
Speaker 3: it was. It was like just out of this world.
Speaker 3: But the thing was somebody's got to know. So then
Speaker 3: I started this proceed So there was a synchronicity event.
Speaker 3: My father was a pilot for the Canaane government and
Speaker 3: somebody in his office wanted to talk to me at
Speaker 3: a UFO siting was a radar tech and he said,
Speaker 3: you know, if you really want to know what's going
Speaker 3: on with the UFOs, you should see what the Canadan
Speaker 3: government was doing back in the nineteen fifties. And I
Speaker 3: said really, He said yeah, I worked for the program
Speaker 3: And I go, you work for the programmer like that?
Speaker 3: I'man fifteen hundred miles away from the capitol and I go,
Speaker 3: you worked for the program and said yeah. And he
Speaker 3: started telling me the story of Wilbert Brockhouse Smith, who
Speaker 3: ran the Canadian government UFO program, and he said he
Speaker 3: was the most brilliant engineer of hi met but he's
Speaker 3: totally crazy. He was talking to aliens and they were
Speaker 3: landing in the backyard and I go, what are you
Speaker 3: talking about it? And that's the pursuit started. So I
Speaker 3: went after the Canadian government. What did the Canadian government know?
Speaker 3: And there was a lot of very interesting stuff. I
Speaker 3: picked and I wrote a book on the Canadan government thing.
Speaker 3: But we ended up trying to figure out where the
Speaker 3: Canadians got the information, because there's the famous top secret memo,
Speaker 3: which is one of the only top secret memos ever
Speaker 3: written about UFOs, where Wilbert Smith says, I to the
Speaker 3: Americans and I wanted to see if there was some smoke.
Speaker 3: There was a fire. There was smoke, and I was
Speaker 3: told by American officials number one flying saucers exist. It's
Speaker 3: the most highly classized subject in the United States. There's a
Speaker 3: small group headed back doctor van var Bush, and it's
Speaker 3: a tremendous significance to the Americans. And then this famous
Speaker 3: line that I've used in the last couple of years.
Speaker 3: We're also told by American officials that other things might
Speaker 3: be associated with the flying sauces, such as mental phenomenon.
Speaker 3: So the pursuit was then I'd gotten mostly what Wilbur had,
Speaker 3: I'd recovered his files. I talked to his wife. She
Speaker 3: told me all these stories and his son and where
Speaker 3: the files were and all that sort of stuff. And
Speaker 3: then I'm thinking, well, who told Wilbur this thing about
Speaker 3: the flying saucers. Exist. It's the most highly classified subject.
Speaker 3: And that turned out to be a guy by the
Speaker 3: name of doctor Robert Starbacher. And this is in the Canade.
Speaker 3: There's some documents where the Canadians are talking in the
Speaker 3: Canadian Embassy in Washington and they this Robert Starbacher comes
Speaker 3: into the Canayan embassy and interview. Who's Wilbert Smith and
Speaker 3: that's he's the guy gave most of that material and
Speaker 3: so we went after him. And then he said, well,
Speaker 3: I really wasn't involved. I was busy. I was working
Speaker 3: on the radar for the Russians and you know, in
Speaker 3: ther in Canada to pick up Russian missiles and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. The guy you should talk to her He
Speaker 3: was a guy in Pennsylvania and that turned out to
Speaker 3: be doctor Eric Walker, who was former president of penn
Speaker 3: State University, chairman of the board of the Institute for
Speaker 3: Defense Analysis military think tank. And I was with a
Speaker 3: bunch of researchers and I was sort of instructing them,
Speaker 3: and they were giving them names and his number and stuff,
Speaker 3: and people are trying to get this guy to talk
Speaker 3: and he was basically talking, and he was basically talking
Speaker 3: in rhymes and riddles about you know, it's been forty years.
Speaker 3: We haven't blow from the world. Leave it alone and
Speaker 3: you know, go do something else, and he had. I
Speaker 3: was trying to find his files, so I went to
Speaker 3: Penn State. I looked at all his files and there
Speaker 3: was nothing there, and he had he had died in
Speaker 3: I think ninety four. And I found out that his
Speaker 3: files when he was a Pentagon and he was the
Speaker 3: assistant to the head of weapon research for the Pentagon,
Speaker 3: and there was this one year period that he was there,
Speaker 3: and he talked that he was going to give the
Speaker 3: stuff to the Truman Library. So I went to the
Speaker 3: Truman Library, not even thinking about presidents or anything. I
Speaker 3: just wanted to get Walker's files and hope that this
Speaker 3: material because he basically said he was confronted. We understand
Speaker 3: from doctor Starbucker that you attended a set of briefings
Speaker 3: at right Patterson Air Force Base in nineteen fifty and
Speaker 3: he said, yeah, I was there, So what And I
Speaker 3: went and the guy that was interviewing, SOI, what do
Speaker 3: you mean? So right, it was the most important subject.
Speaker 3: And this is how this discussion started. That he confirmed
Speaker 3: that he had been at these briefings. So we thought
Speaker 3: that the briefing material might be in these records that
Speaker 3: he left with the Truman Library. So I went to
Speaker 3: the Truman Library in Independence, Missouri, and I asked for them,
Speaker 3: and there was a couple of files on Walker and
Speaker 3: there was really nothing important or whatever. And then I thought, hey, well,
Speaker 3: you know, the president is the most important guy in
Speaker 3: the world. He's a powerful guy. He's got to know
Speaker 3: what's going on. And that's my my question, Like, somebody's
Speaker 3: got to know what's going on here. So that's when
Speaker 3: I asked the Truman Library. I said, well, what you
Speaker 3: got on UFOs And they said, well, they talked about
Speaker 3: the overflight nineteen fifty two where the shootdown order was given,
Speaker 3: and there's a week between the first sightings and second sightings,
Speaker 3: and all these telegrams started to come in to the
Speaker 3: White House and they had all these telegrams. So I
Speaker 3: was looking through all these telegrams and people were saying, please,
Speaker 3: mister President, don't shoot them down, leave them alone, all
Speaker 3: this sort of stuff. And then I said, well what
Speaker 3: else they got, and they go, well, that's it, that's
Speaker 3: all we got to call it. That's all you got.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the most you figured it's the
Speaker 3: most important subject, like why would the president not have anything?
Speaker 3: So then I figured, well, the Eisenhoewer Library is just
Speaker 3: down the road. It's maybe two hours down the road
Speaker 3: in Kansas. I'll go to the Eisenhower Library and I'll
Speaker 3: find out what they're doing. And they had five documents
Speaker 3: and one was the famous Top Secret or the CIA
Speaker 3: Robertson Panel report, which had been doone on a Truman
Speaker 3: but it appeared in the it was right at the
Speaker 3: end of administration, sort of end up in the Eisenhour Library.
Speaker 3: So that's when I said to the archives, because there
Speaker 3: you have to you know, everyone's got a suit on
Speaker 3: and it's all very formal, and they you got to
Speaker 3: do a review and be interviewed before you can research there.
Speaker 3: And I said, you know, you've got five documents and
Speaker 3: one was a telegram from one of the contactes and stuff.
Speaker 3: And then I said, how many pages as he documents
Speaker 3: you got and he said twenty eight million pages. Anyway,
Speaker 3: you got five on UFO. And that's when I've got
Speaker 3: something's wrong here like is. And then I determined to
Speaker 3: go to all of the presidents and find out what
Speaker 3: the presidents had known and basically it would be a
Speaker 3: very you know, slow day because you take four days
Speaker 3: to go to the Eisnar Library, And within about two
Speaker 3: and a half hours I was finished all the UFO documents.
Speaker 3: And then for the rest of the week, I was
Speaker 3: just sitting there reading oral histories from different people and
Speaker 3: and you know, trying to find something to interest myself
Speaker 3: because there's really no documents. And that's when sort of
Speaker 3: puzzled me, like why are there no documents in the
Speaker 3: the the libraries. And I guess it all comes summed
Speaker 3: up by there's an oral history interview that was done
Speaker 3: by General Landry, who was Air advisor to Truman. It
Speaker 3: was in the Truman Library, and he talks about the
Speaker 3: briefing that when he came in in nineteen forty eight,
Speaker 3: he had been told by Truman, I want you to
Speaker 3: brief me on UFO was every three months, I want
Speaker 3: you to go to the CIA, get all the material
Speaker 3: and brief me. So we figured there was about fifteen
Speaker 3: or sixteen briefings that was given to the president, but
Speaker 3: they were all done orally, so in nineteen forty eight
Speaker 3: they already knew don't put it on paper. It was
Speaker 3: all done early and That's what I believe is if
Speaker 3: this subject is handled by the president, is not handled
Speaker 3: on paper, and it's I guess what Bill Clinton would
Speaker 3: call this is story. Whitley Strieber tells that he said
Speaker 3: he talked to Rockefeller, Lawrence Rockefeller, who had gone to
Speaker 3: the Clintons, and he got the Clintons at his ranch
Speaker 3: in Wyoming, and Bill didn't come down for the briefing,
Speaker 3: and so just Hillary was there. And so then they're
Speaker 3: going for a walk and that's when Bill Clinton says
Speaker 3: to Rockefeller, said, the UFO issue, it's, you know, the
Speaker 3: story of the Arkansas atar baby and Rockefellers. So yeah,
Speaker 3: he said, this is the Arkansas tar baby. You don't
Speaker 3: touch it. He said, you touch it, you're going to
Speaker 3: get stuck to it. And this is the story about
Speaker 3: the Arkansas tar baby where the catch bar rabbit. He
Speaker 3: sees this tar baby and the tar baby doesn't talk back.
Speaker 3: It's sitting on the side of the road, set up
Speaker 3: by the fox. And he gets mad and he punches
Speaker 3: the tar baby and he gets stuck with his hand,
Speaker 3: and then he puts the other hand and gets stuck,
Speaker 3: and then his feeter gets stuck. And that's what Clinton says,
Speaker 3: this is the subject the president cannot touch. This is
Speaker 3: a tar baby story, and you don't touch it. So
Speaker 3: I think that's what it is. So when I went
Speaker 3: after the Carter material, I basically my end conclusion was
Speaker 3: that he had made this promise to the National Choir.
Speaker 3: There was a scrum of reporters in nineteen seventy six
Speaker 3: when he was running and he was asked by the
Speaker 3: National Choir, you know you saw UFO, and would you
Speaker 3: release the UFO files. And that's when he made this
Speaker 3: famous claim that if I get in, I will release
Speaker 3: all the UFO files to the people, except for unless
Speaker 3: it has to do with military secrecy. And that was
Speaker 3: the big catch. So he made this promise, and then
Speaker 3: when he got in, he didn't say anything. He never
Speaker 3: used the word UFO, the same as Gerald Ford before
Speaker 3: he was running for when he was running for president,
Speaker 3: he was saying, or when he was a congressman, he said,
Speaker 3: not only do I want this thing opened up, I
Speaker 3: want to get the military people put the mind our
Speaker 3: oath and forced them to testify to tell us what's
Speaker 3: going on. And when he got the White House, he
Speaker 3: never used the word UFO either, Like Jimmy Carter used
Speaker 3: it before and after president, but he never used the
Speaker 3: word when he was in there. And what I came
Speaker 3: to conclusion was he made this promise and he did
Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff, but it was all done without
Speaker 3: his fingerprints. So he had other people doing things for him.
Speaker 3: He had, for example, Jody Powell. Jody Powell was the
Speaker 3: guy that forced the documents out of the FBI. He
Speaker 3: said the FBI was under big pressure. And then you know,
Speaker 3: McCabe wrote the book. I think it was fifteen hundred
Speaker 3: pages released under Jimmy Carter, and he had the CIA.
Speaker 3: There was a story that ciad fourteen thousand pages. There
Speaker 3: was an FOIA. It was big at the time. Fois
Speaker 3: Jimmy Carter talked about open government and the Sunshine Law
Speaker 3: and all this kind of stuff and getting openness, and
Speaker 3: there was there was a strumored story. There was a
Speaker 3: girl that was working on behalf of the White House,
Speaker 3: a lawyer at the CIA, and they were hiding the
Speaker 3: documents and there was supposed to fourteen thousand and that
Speaker 3: turn was only one thousand, and she was crying because
Speaker 3: they were they were playing these games and she got
Speaker 3: so frustrated with what was going on.
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