1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: If you're a man and you're listening to this episode, 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: don't stop, because utopia for women is really a utopia 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: for men to This episode is brought to you by 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: nat X, the Binary Options Exchange. Binary Options let you 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: limit your risk and trade stock in dissees, commodities for 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: x and more from a single account. Nat X is 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: a CFTC regulated exchange with transparency, free market data, and 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: fairness guaranteed. The future of trading is here now at 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: n A d e x dot com, futures, options and spots. 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Trading involves risk and may not be appropriate for all industors. Hi, 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: and welcome back to Bloomberg Benchmark, a podcast about the 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: global economy. It is Thursday, February eleventh. I'm Tori Stillwell, 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: an economics reporter with Bloomberg News in DC, and I 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: am joined by my co host Akiedo in Tokyo or 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: she's the temporary bureau chief. Hello, Hey, Tory, how's it 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: going pretty good? How are things out in Japan? It's 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: been really frantic. It's good to hear your voice again. 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: What's been the most frantic? What's been the craziest thing 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: that we should tell all our listeners about. Oh, my gosh. Well, 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: we had quite a frantic moment in the office just 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: yesterday when the yield on ten year Japanese government bonds 22 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: slid past zero for the very first time. Uh And 23 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: since then, over the last two days, they've been kind 24 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: of hovering back and forth between a slightly positive number 25 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: and a slightly negative number. Sounds kind of our cane 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: and kind of nerdy, but yeah, in our world of finance, 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: it's such a big deal. Yeah, it's crazy to imagine 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: borrowing money for ten years and not having to pay 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: any interest on that. If only you had the credit 30 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: worthiness of the Japanese government plus a central bank that 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: was buying tons of your debt, right right exactly? They 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: so nice? Yeah, yeah, well, you know a girl can dream, yes, right, Well, 33 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, onto our main topic for today. I've been 34 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: really excited to do this episode for a while since tour. 35 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: You and I are both women, yes we are, and 36 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: and we are both women with careers. And when I 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: moved to the US four years ago from Japan, I 38 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: really felt like the US was just so far ahead 39 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: of Japan when it came to gender equality and conditions 40 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: for women in the workplace, and it was just such 41 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: a fresh breath of air for me to be able 42 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: to work in uh an environment like that. But the 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: funny thing is that the I guess not that funny. 44 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: It's kind of sad, but the US is actually much 45 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: farther behind when you compare it against some advanced economies 46 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: like Scandinavia. Um, it's just gender equality here still has 47 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: some work ahead of it, that's right. And so I 48 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: was kind of thinking, what is it like to work 49 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: in Scandinavia as a woman, you know, in this kind 50 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: of like utopian heaven. And lucky for us, we have 51 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: an amazing reporter in Oslo who also happens to be 52 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: a woman. And since Dan's traveling in London this week, 53 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: it's going to be a conversation this week amongst the 54 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: three of us young women. And let me interject here 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: and say, if you're a man and you're listening to 56 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: this episode, don't stop because utopia for women is really 57 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: a utopia for men too, and we'll talk about that 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: a little bit more later. Let's introduce our guests for today. 59 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: Selea Molson's on the line with us all the way 60 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: from Norway. Hey, Seleia, how's it going good? How are 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 1: you lucky? Good? Thanks, I'm so glad you were able 62 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: to join us today. Yeah. Great, really cleared to join you. 63 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: We I feel like we always talk about the weather, 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: but I've never been to Norway. So what's the weather 65 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: like in Norway? Right? Yes, it's um not as cold 66 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: as it was last month. That was probably the coldest 67 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: winter or January that I've had in Norway since I 68 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: moved here four years ago. How cold are we talking here? Um? 69 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: It was like minus seven or eight for two weeks straight. Yeah. Well, 70 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about you, Sally. How 71 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: where are you born? Where'd you grow up? Where all 72 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: have you lived? Yeah? I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio, born and 73 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: raised in the wonderful Midwest, which is where I went 74 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: to college. It's where I landed my first job, which 75 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: was at a reasonable business paper in Columbus. I ended 76 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: up in London in two thousand and eight, just months 77 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: before the financial crisis hit, which is an interesting time 78 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: to be in a financial capital. Yeah. I did my 79 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: master's there, I had my my son there and UM. 80 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eleven, my family and I escaped 81 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: from that UM and came to Norway, where the country 82 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: these massive oil riches have helped the Norway avoid the 83 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: same financial calamities that the rest of the world experienced 84 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: in two dozen, ten and eleven UM. And I've been 85 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg's Oblive euro for almost three years now, so 86 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: together we represent the US, Japan, Norway, the UK Tory. 87 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: Have you lived anywhere than the South I think cats 88 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: is like its country. Well, that's a lot of countries there, um, 89 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: you know, so they coincidentally you live in the world's 90 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: best country for working women. That's according to the World 91 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: Economic Forms Gender Gap Report, where Norway ranked number one 92 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: in economic participation and opportunity. And that's out of forty 93 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: five countries. So that's pretty amazing. And for some context here, 94 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: the US ranked number six in this sub end index, 95 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: which is pretty good. I don't know where the southwood 96 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: rank there, but you know what average America's number six. 97 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: Japan was was one hundred and six, which was worse 98 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: than a lot of a lot of developing countries. That's 99 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: really really surprising. I had no idea it was that bad. Yeah, yeah, 100 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: I was not surprised. Pretty horrible. And the UK was 101 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: forty three, which was a lot worse than I had expected. 102 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: To so cele Yeah, what are some things that popped 103 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: out at you when you moved to Norway? Because you know, 104 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: this episode is all about what it's like to be 105 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: in the world's best country for working women, So what 106 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: are some things that illustrate that for you? Just how 107 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: great women have it there? You know, I'd actually say 108 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: that what stood up to me most was seeing men 109 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: pushing strollers. If you pick any weekday afternoon, walked down 110 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: the street, you'll see loads of fathers that are out 111 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: and about with their small kids. When I moved here, 112 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: my son was fifty months old, and as I was 113 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: getting to know people, know how things work, um, we 114 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: would show up to these different play groups around Oslo 115 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: and there were always a couple of fathers in the room, 116 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: which I found really fascinating. You know, you talked to 117 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: them and say, yeah, I've taken three or four months 118 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: off for paternity leave, um, and the kid would be 119 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: six seven months old. And to me, what that meant 120 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: was that for each dad that's out there with their 121 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: small kid, there is a mom who was able to 122 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: go back to work a little sooner continue to climb 123 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: up the career ladder rather than take a few years 124 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: off to have one or two kids and then end 125 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: up falling behind as your male peers race ahead of you. Well, 126 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: we were brainstorming for this episode. So you called it 127 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: a men's liberation movement. Tell us what you mean. Well, 128 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: in the early nineties, Norway introduced a daddy quota for 129 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: parental benefits. So the total leave that you get is 130 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: between fifty and sixty weeks off that can be split 131 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: pretty much any which way between the parents. I mean, 132 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: obviously the beginning is reserved for the mother, and then 133 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: there are ten weeks that are called the daddy quota, 134 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: which if the father does not take that time off, 135 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: those ten weeks are lost. So it's basically money that 136 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: you're losing. On top of that, the government makes up 137 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: your salary, so you take time off after having a baby, um, 138 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: the government will pay about sixty two thousand a year. 139 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: If you earn more than that, then it's not uncommon 140 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: for a Norwegian firm to make up the difference and 141 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: not right there. Having that rule means that there's a 142 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: working culture where it is acceptable for men and women 143 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: to be away for six months to a year because 144 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: they've just had a baby. But then after the first 145 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: year year to have it's gone by. It could be 146 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: the father or the mother who takes time off when 147 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: schools are closed or your kid is sick. It's kind 148 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: of built into the working environments that you know, you 149 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: take time off for your kids, and there's no role 150 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: of the eye, there's no sign dying. Oh god, they're 151 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: gone again. I have two kids. Right. It sounds like 152 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: the entrance and exit ramps for both men and women 153 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: are just really smooth in Norway and really make it 154 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: possible to sort of take back up where you left off. Yeah, 155 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: and it also makes you feel as a woman that 156 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: you won't necessarily get passed over for being a woman, 157 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: because hiring a man could also mean six months eight 158 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: months of parental leave. Yeah, you said that you were 159 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: hired as a because you were taking over for someone 160 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: who is on maternity leave. Right. Yeah. I was brought 161 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: in as a contract worker full time to take over 162 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: when my predecessor UM took a year off when she 163 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: had her baby, and um it was kind of dangled 164 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: to me that you know, will hire you if you're 165 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: good this kind of thing, and to me, I just thought, 166 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: one year at Boomberg will not hurt so even if 167 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: they can't hire me, at least I've got one year 168 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: under my belt. Um, and I was very, very lucky 169 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: where they were able to keep me on board. Yeah, 170 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: it sounds like it worked out really well, which is 171 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: a way for a lot of people. It's how they 172 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: get their their first bit of work experience, they get 173 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: their foot in the door. You've never had, I guess 174 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: a situation where you've been a working mom in the US. 175 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: Then No. I had my son after I left in London. Wow, 176 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: So what I mean, how different do you think your 177 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: life would be if that weren't the case? You know, 178 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I would have spent more 179 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: time at home and not gone back to work as 180 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: soon as I did. I still took more time off 181 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: in the average the region. I went back to work 182 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: when my son was around three, simply because we moved, 183 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, ye countries in between. But I guess I'll 184 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: find out what it's like to be a working mom 185 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: pretty soon. I'll be moving to the DC Bureau for 186 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg hang out with me. Yeah. Yeah, So you know, 187 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: earlier we talked about how when men take time off, 188 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: it becomes a lot easier for women to come back 189 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: into the workforce too. For a little bit more context, here, 190 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: in Norway, sevent of women and eight percent of men 191 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: participate in the workforce, So women are very close to 192 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: being as equally involved in the labor market as our men. Uh. 193 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: In Japan, only sixty six percent of women work compared 194 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: with eighty five for men. So that's a pretty big 195 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: gap there. I think the US is somewhere in between. 196 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: And I think another way to think about this is 197 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: although Japan's population is shrinking and companies are scrambling to 198 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: find workers for all kinds of jobs, there's this huge 199 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: pool of underutilized workers that really does make for a 200 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: real economic case for governments to create better working environments 201 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: for women. Yeah. I know, a couple of different groups 202 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: have all talked about this is a way to combat 203 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: that productivity problem that we have talked about on the 204 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: show so many times. Um. You know, as we get 205 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: economies that are aging and that are maturing, um, one 206 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: untapped pool for them really is women and drawing more 207 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 1: women into the workforce. Uh. It's just this vast opportunity 208 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: that many countries have and they aren't making full use 209 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: of it yet. Yeah. You know, in terms of economic benefit. 210 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: What I can say is that the participation of women 211 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: in the workforce of Norway has gone up from about 212 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: fifty in the seventies to sev seventy five percent today. UM. 213 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: And I think that Norway, at least according to the 214 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: O E C. D UM, Nordic countries in general have 215 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: some of the smallest gender gaps in the world, and 216 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: Norway is a star even amongst the Nordics, having made 217 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: very steady progress closing the gap between men and women 218 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: by about five percent over the last ten years. It 219 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: kind of sounds like one of those cases where you know, 220 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: a government in blements a very progressive policy and it 221 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: takes a while for the effects to seep through the culture. 222 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: But at this point it sounds like it's just so 223 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: normal too for men to take leave, it's so normal 224 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: for a wife and a husband to equally share the 225 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: burden of raising a kid, that you don't think twice 226 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: about it anymore. Yeah, that's true. But in Norway there 227 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: actually still is some room for improvement. I mean, you 228 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: can say, like there are more women in the public 229 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: sector than the private sector. So you look at parliament 230 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: or even um the leading politicians in the country the 231 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, of the Finance minister, Defense minister. They're all women. 232 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: The heads of the Business Confederation Labor Union are also women. UM. 233 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: The interesting thing is that this is not a big deal. 234 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: No one's talking about it how great it is or 235 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: it's not great. It just is. But when you look 236 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: at it, yeah, but when you look at the central 237 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: bank UM or non elected officials, it's mostly men. UM. 238 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: All through central bankers that we have our men. There 239 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: are thirteen executives that oversee the nation's serve and Wealth Fund, 240 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: which is the biggest in the world, and just two 241 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: of those are women. And those were added very very 242 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: recently in the last two years. UM. And even if 243 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: you look at the biggest companies on the also stock exchange, 244 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: men dominate the executive suites in those companies. 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Trading involves risk and may not be appropriate 259 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: for all investors. So there's this really interesting story that 260 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: we ran out of the Tokyo Bureau just a couple 261 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: of days ago, UM about this lawmaker who asked for 262 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: time off from parliament to take care of his newborn baby, 263 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: and he came under intense fire as a result, really 264 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: intense criticism all these relatively older lawmakers within his political 265 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: party where like, oh my gosh, like you can't do that, 266 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: Like you're a lawmaker, you you can't miss all these 267 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: very important votes. Um. And so I think as of 268 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: now he's still not allowed to take paternity leave. It 269 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: sounds like a pretty different situation from Nora. Way. Well, 270 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: i'd be nice if if in the US wallmakers didn't 271 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: want to miss vote. That would be great. So how 272 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: do you balance the responsibility of taking care of your 273 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: child with your husband. I'd think it's pretty split fifty fifty. Um. 274 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: If he gets sick or needs a day off from kindergarten, 275 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: whichever one of us has a lighter and more flexible workloads, 276 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: the day willn't be the one to stay home and 277 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: your your child is five years old, is that right? Yeah, 278 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: he's five. I have to say that my husband, he's 279 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: always been interested in being an involved father. But when 280 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: we were living in the UK, the difference was that 281 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: in London, circumstances kind of pushed us into the classic 282 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: nine family. He was working long hours. I had very 283 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: little time to look for work. You know, I was 284 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: cooking and cleaning and taking care of our son while 285 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: he was out bringing home the bacon. But in Norway, 286 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: but we both have time to be focus at work 287 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: and at home. Oh that's great. Do you think moving 288 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: to Norway has changed him in any way, like changed 289 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: his attitude towards family or or your career. I mean, 290 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: like I said, he was always part of my career 291 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: and interest in being involved father. But when it comes 292 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: to things like the thought of taking an accepted paternity leave. 293 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: I remember when we first moved here, he thought, oh, 294 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: I could never stay at home for three or four 295 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: or five months. But how I think he really wishes 296 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: that when we had our son back in London, he 297 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: could have stayed home a little bit longer than he did. Well, 298 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: it's nice. I mean, it's so great when money isn't 299 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: really an issue and you're trying to fix these really 300 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: big social problems like gender equality. And it sounds like 301 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: Norway has come very close to doing that, not totally 302 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: fixing it, but it's on the right path. And like 303 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: we've talked about, they have this gigantic sovereign well fund 304 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: that's funded by oil. But oil, as most people probably know, 305 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: hasn't been doing too great lately. So I'm wondering ing. Um, 306 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: I guess I have like two questions in mind. One 307 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: is how, if if any if any way, that will 308 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: impact Norway's implementation and ways that it tries to fix 309 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: social problems by just really bankrolling everything and having the 310 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: ability to do that and be, uh, you know what 311 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: other countries can do that don't have just this these 312 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: massive amounts of cash to throw around. Is there no 313 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: hope for them? Yeah, that's a really big questions. Sorry, no, 314 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 1: no big deal. I can definitely answer the first. Um. 315 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it's a massive fund eight D ten 316 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: billion dollars saved away in foreign markets. UM, so that 317 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: the economy domestically isn't overheated is nothing to to laugh at, 318 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: and no one else has. It's the biggest serve and 319 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: wealth fund in the world. Um. But to start with, 320 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: they use the money widely, the implementing the daddy quota 321 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: and these kinds of parental benefits where money is not 322 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: a problem. You're on paternity leave, prontal leave, and you're 323 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: still earning. That started in the early nineties, so it 324 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: seems like Norway and even Scandinavia kind of cottoned on 325 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: to the importance UM and the economic benefits of keeping 326 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: women in the workforce pretty early. But when it comes 327 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: to what the effects are of the oil price dropping, 328 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: Norway is not like countries like Saudi Arabia or even 329 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: Nigeria where the fiscal budget is very, very dependent on 330 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: the oil fund. They have so much of it and 331 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: so much oil revenue that they are now starting to 332 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: dip into the fund this year to plug budget holes. 333 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: But it is five billion coroner of seven trillion coroner 334 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: so far UM, so oil prices won't really affect the 335 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: benefits in that respect, but there is talk that on 336 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: the longer term Norway in to be a little less 337 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: reliance on oil and that could be an adjustment and 338 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: welfare benefits. What do you think? What do you think 339 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: you know a country like the U. S should do 340 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: if you can't tap into this gigantic wealth fund that's 341 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: funded by oil, which seems pretty likely given given the 342 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: state of politics here and and sort of the gridlock 343 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: that we always see in Washington and the inability to 344 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: get anything done. Yeah, definitely politics everywhere. I think there's 345 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: still that near in Norway, but across Scandinavia, I mean, 346 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: scanny of you and the Nordics all rank very, very 347 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: high when it comes to these gender gap indexes UM 348 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: and Sweden, Denmark, Finland isems they don't have a massive 349 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: serve and wealth fund to turn to, but they're still 350 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: doing pretty well and they I wonder if it's just 351 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: that they decided earlier that this is important, but also 352 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: that labor unions have a pretty big voice in these countries, 353 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: so workers are better able to get what they want. Yeah, 354 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,719 Speaker 1: and here in the US, the presence of labor unions 355 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: has been on just a pretty rapid decline over the 356 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: last few years. You know. So, do you think by 357 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: that time your five year old son maybe gets married 358 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: and has his own kids, Norway will be a completely 359 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: equal country, or maybe women will have taken over. Hopefully 360 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: by the time my son is is grown up with 361 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: his own family and kids. I hope that the gender 362 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: gap is obviously much nearrower in the US. In Norway, 363 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: I think it seems like from what I hear in 364 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: the private sector is women are behind. It might not 365 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,239 Speaker 1: necessarily be because there is a ceiling. It might just 366 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: be because women choose to go into the public sector. 367 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: So it kind of is up to women now I 368 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: think makes stride and do what's left. Yeah, because there's 369 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: you said that there's um uh. Women work in the 370 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: public sector in much higher ratios than men, and people 371 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: typically in the public sector get paid a little bit less, right, Yeah, yeah, 372 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: they do, but they probably get a little bit more 373 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: flexibility when it comes to benefit. I guess we should 374 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: end on that really optimistic note. It's up to Norway's 375 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: women to lead the world in this brave new world. 376 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, thank you, and thanks to all 377 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: of you for listening to Bloomberg Benchmark. We'll be back 378 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: next week and until then, you can find us on 379 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal and Bloomberg dot com, as well as iTunes, 380 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: pocket Cast, Stitcher, Google Play and everywhere else. Basically, and 381 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: while you're there to take a minute to rate and 382 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: review the show, some more listeners can find us and 383 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: let us know what you thought of the show. You 384 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: can talk to us and follow us on Twitter at 385 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: aki Eto seven at Tori Stillwell and our guest Selea 386 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: is at Selea moson Wilson's Spelled Living h in the Middle. 387 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: See you next week. 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