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Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast

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Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Almost Simois podcast. We're recapping

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Speaker 2: Men Tell All. We're not gonna complain about it, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're also.

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Speaker 3: Wonderful we had it was wonderful.

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Speaker 2: So I was gonna say there was there was so

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Speaker 2: much that we can talk about that had nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with the actual tell all part, because there were

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Speaker 2: two moments that were like in the first twenty minutes

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Speaker 2: in which we resume back in Hawaii.

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Speaker 4: I would like to say two things because huh, the

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Speaker 4: tell all part, you know, isn't I don't think I'm

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Speaker 4: with you. It's not the most important part of this episode.

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Speaker 4: But there are two topics that I would love to

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Speaker 4: get your opinion on.

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Speaker 5: Well, sure, what.

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Speaker 4: Did you think about the gin and the men's reaction

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Speaker 4: to Sam M? And then at the same time, I'd

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Speaker 4: be actually curious to hear, like, what your take was

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Speaker 4: on Sam in leaving this episode?

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Speaker 5: Sam n Okay?

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Speaker 2: Is this because we talked about how Sam and seemed

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Speaker 2: I said he seems self aware on his Instagram? Yes, uh, well,

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Speaker 2: I think my biggest takeaway from the Sam M thing

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Speaker 2: during the tell all was just like, I think it's

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Speaker 2: still weird that the guys are holding it against him

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Speaker 2: so much that he's never been in a relationship or

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Speaker 2: never been in love, Like he's twenty five. I don't

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Speaker 2: think that's that weird these days. Yeah, it is odd,

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Speaker 2: He's like it is odd. It's not like I'm sure

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Speaker 2: most people have had those feelings by that age, and

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Speaker 2: I don't think that there's just like, I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's like a red flag at twenty five. If you

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Speaker 2: were telling me that the guy was thirty five and

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Speaker 2: was feeling like this, I would be like, oh, Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's weird.

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Speaker 4: But do you think they're doing it because his lack

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Speaker 4: of relationship and it felt like his like kind of

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Speaker 4: lack of ability to navigate this process. They're blaming on

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Speaker 4: his immaturity. They're saying, hey, you were doing this thing

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Speaker 4: all weird and like we we can't blame I mean,

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Speaker 4: I would like somebody to be like, we can't blame

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Speaker 4: you for it, man, you don't have a lot of.

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Speaker 5: Experience, right.

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Speaker 2: I think that would have been the better way of

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Speaker 2: saying it, just saying like, you don't have a lot

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Speaker 2: of experience, you're a little immature, about it, but to

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Speaker 2: like make it seem like he was weird for having

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Speaker 2: not been in those situations.

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Speaker 4: I was, just like, you guys, a small piece of this,

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Speaker 4: though obviously the sam M moments were a little bit

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Speaker 4: more controversial or talked about.

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Speaker 5: I mean, watching this, I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: The funniest thing that I've seen about sam M over

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Speaker 2: the since the airing was this Instagram meme where he

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Speaker 2: was looking at himself on like the projector that they have,

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Speaker 2: and the way he was looking at himself as if

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Speaker 2: he was in awe and it was like Sam M

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Speaker 2: really just in love with sam M. And that was

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Speaker 2: the perfect way of describing everything. And Jen's reaction towards Sam,

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Speaker 2: like the way she stood up for herself when she

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Speaker 2: got to the stage was perfect, and she was like

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Speaker 2: and she said that I want this to be you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to really bring you down. I just

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Speaker 2: want this to be a learning lesson for you. And

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that he just said I accept that. I

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Speaker 2: was surprised, and I really wonder if there was more

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Speaker 2: that didn't make the cut. And I think she went

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Speaker 2: after him so hard, not just because watching it back,

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Speaker 2: he you know, prioritized himself. It was always me, me

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Speaker 2: and me, But it was really probably so bothersome that

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Speaker 2: he got his entire family and like friend group to

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Speaker 2: insinuate that there was like more to the story and

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Speaker 2: that she actually sucked.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that did not help his cause. I do think

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Speaker 4: that like hurt his cause. All Right, final part of

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Speaker 4: the tell All that was interesting. Noah was there, Noah's brother.

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Speaker 5: This This was my most memorable part of the time.

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Speaker 3: Okay, tell us, tell us why.

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Speaker 5: Because the book that they gave him was a fake

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Speaker 5: book completely.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Like the producers created this book and then they

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Speaker 5: continued with the storyline that it was real on the

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Speaker 5: tell All.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of odd, right, it's super odd because that

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Speaker 2: information is out there. And then they had his brother, Noah,

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Speaker 2: who we know, well, try to talk about the book

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Speaker 2: situation because he had a book situation in which Bennett

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Speaker 2: back on Tasha's season, gave him a book about what

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Speaker 2: was that being emotionally intelligent? And they're like, oh, isn't

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Speaker 2: it funny that you guys both had book moments. It's like, well,

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Speaker 2: you guys, you're telling us that you really don't think

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Speaker 2: that you were trying to mimic a situation that you

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Speaker 2: had years ago. Yes, we all know that this was

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Speaker 2: a production thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it goes back to what we talked about

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Speaker 4: last year. I think they expect the viewers to be like,

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Speaker 4: really dumb. Yeah, and it also helps. And I don't

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Speaker 4: know why they do it, because there's other ways they

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Speaker 4: could have gone about this that would have made it

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Speaker 4: interesting and something to talk about. But it almost feels

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Speaker 4: one like they don't expect the viewers to kind of

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Speaker 4: understand this, and it continues to lose trust with the

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Speaker 4: viewers because this is a very easy moment where the

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Speaker 4: viewers go, this is being very produced.

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Speaker 5: Ben good point.

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Speaker 2: And there was another moment in the bloopers where I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, holy Crappoli. They're being very obvious that sometimes

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Speaker 2: we're being told to say certain things. See normally I

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Speaker 2: tell you, and I feel like we're very trustworthy when

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Speaker 2: we say I hope that you guys believe us when

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Speaker 2: we say that the show really isn't scripted, because that's

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Speaker 2: like the number one question that we get is it's scripted,

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Speaker 2: and we're like no. And in comparison to other reality

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Speaker 2: TV programs that Ben and I have been part of

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Speaker 2: since this experience, we always say that this is like

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Speaker 2: the most authentic at least scripted. But then in the

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Speaker 2: bloopers they have Jen narrating something and she keeps stumbling

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Speaker 2: over the right way of saying it, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this makes it seem like she does have a script

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Speaker 2: she's reading off of.

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Speaker 5: But I just want you guys, things have changed too.

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Speaker 4: We have to admit that maybe we aren't in the

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Speaker 4: know anymore on how things are operated behind the scenes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the lead is going to like narrate situations the

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Speaker 2: way they want them to, and sometimes they'll sit you

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Speaker 2: down and be like, we have a lot of pickups

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Speaker 2: to do, we have a lot of narration, not so

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Speaker 2: much so we have two sort of interviews when we

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Speaker 2: go into the interview room. Some of them are in

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Speaker 2: the moment interviews, which are usually the most emotional, like

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Speaker 2: they're actually interviews with how we're feeling. And then sometimes,

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Speaker 2: like on Rose Ceremony days, we go into the interview

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Speaker 2: room and it's kind of us narrating the week. So

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Speaker 2: when you saw Jen stumble a couple times, that was

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Speaker 2: her trying to narrate the week properly.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't really a script.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know why they're kind of doing this though.

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Speaker 4: It's it's going to lose trust with the viewers, and

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Speaker 4: I think it's slowly but surely going to continue.

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Speaker 3: Now we've kind of gone through it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, is there anything else that you really sit

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Speaker 4: out to you during the mentell all part that you

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Speaker 4: thinks chat we're the.

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Speaker 5: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: I'm just glad that Noah did make fun of his

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Speaker 2: brother because like Noah, it's like, oh, you know, we kind.

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Speaker 5: Of went about things. It was a little different.

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Speaker 2: I can't really stand behind he said in the nicest

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Speaker 2: possible way, but I can't really stand behind like my

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Speaker 2: brother's behavior. That guy is yo, Like they couldn't be

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Speaker 2: more different. He makes you feel super weird.

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Speaker 6: Aaron.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And then he's like, I've been divorced.

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Speaker 2: So I know these things like I'm experienced relationships and

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Speaker 2: la la lah. I'm like, okay, you're divorced for a reason,

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Speaker 2: I feel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think a divorce would be the like

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Speaker 4: the marker for ye. Yeah, I know how to do relationships.

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Speaker 4: I mean, hey, but I don't think that's what I'll

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Speaker 4: be using as as the the nugget of Hey, look

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Speaker 4: at me. I know how to go through this. Now

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Speaker 4: we do get into the juicy part of this episode,

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Speaker 4: we did. I think we do have to mention that

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Speaker 4: Grant Ellis was there.

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Speaker 5: But he wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like obviously not going to be taught,

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Speaker 2: like arguing with the guys up there that was they

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Speaker 2: were never going to put him in the midst of that.

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Speaker 4: No, he's way above and beyond this. Now, still excited

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Speaker 4: for that season, but we still have gen season to

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Speaker 4: talk about.

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Speaker 2: Still excited about that season, but really really confused by

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Speaker 2: the pick of a Grant you are.

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Speaker 5: Wait, yeah, what that was my two things?

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Speaker 2: I started the podcast saying that there was two shocking

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Speaker 2: things that happened the first couple of twenty minutes.

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Speaker 3: So you think it was Jonathan.

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Speaker 5: Why in the world, Why in the world was it

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Speaker 5: not Jonathan.

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Speaker 2: I even got a message because I sat on Instagram story.

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Speaker 2: I was like, you guys, this is so weird. Why

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Speaker 2: it's not Jonathan. We know Jonathan, We like all love Jonathan.

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Speaker 2: He's super endearing. He got that far, he got emotionally intelligent,

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Speaker 2: he got to the top three, which is like the

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Speaker 2: sweet spot for Bachelor, and they didn't pick him, and

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Speaker 2: then I got a DM one of many DM most Oh,

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Speaker 2: I got so many dms about like agreeing with me.

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Speaker 2: People think it's very weird he wasn't chosen. I got

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Speaker 2: one that was like I heard that there's problematic things

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Speaker 2: about the top three. I'm like, okay, well that was

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Speaker 2: the case, then they wouldn't have announced him as being

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Speaker 2: part of Bachelor and Paradise, so scratch that as the reasoning.

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Speaker 4: Okay, it's interesting. I do think Jonathan would have made

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Speaker 4: a lot of sins. But at the same time, they're

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Speaker 4: still kind of hiding Grant, so we don't know Grant yet,

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Speaker 4: Like there were not even getting moments, Like even during this,

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Speaker 4: we're like, we get to know him so much better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we see the little clip in the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the episode where he talks to his mom, but like

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Speaker 2: that was that's been out there.

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Speaker 5: We floated that clip around. Who've seen it for a

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Speaker 5: few weeks.

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Speaker 2: Jonathan and the way that he left and he explained himself,

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Speaker 2: he just.

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Speaker 5: Had like the Bachelor departure, and it just feels super weird.

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Speaker 2: It just feels like another miss for us, unless they

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Speaker 2: want to use him because they need to repromote Paradise,

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Speaker 2: as you keep insane, I knew itting that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: going to happen. We have two people going to Paradise,

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Speaker 2: him and hikem being officially members of that cast, and

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Speaker 2: so maybe they just feel like they need a superstar

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Speaker 2: on that beach.

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Speaker 5: And that's theirs.

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Speaker 4: Let's start at the beginning. Devin has big moments during

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Speaker 4: this episode. Devin obviously has the cliffhanger coming off of

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Speaker 4: last episode. We think and we fully believe he was

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Speaker 4: going home. But if I do remember right, I did

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Speaker 4: say I feel like Devin stays because that last clip

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Speaker 4: at the end in the white suit where you can

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Speaker 4: only see her looking at somebody's shoulder had to be

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Speaker 4: Devon based on his height. We didn't know how it

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Speaker 4: was going to get there.

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Speaker 3: We thought he still.

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Speaker 4: Left and maybe came back. Ashley, what did you think

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Speaker 4: of what really happened?

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Speaker 5: Well? I texted you and I said, Ben, do you

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Speaker 5: know spoilers or something?

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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't this season, I don't know and.

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Speaker 2: He says he does not, I know nothing, And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: how did you think that that was? How did you

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Speaker 2: called it being? You called Devon being at that altar?

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Speaker 3: Because he's the tallest one I know.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know. There could have been, Like I said,

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Speaker 2: we could have worked some way around that. I could

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Speaker 2: have been a producer who knows. They don't show a

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Speaker 2: lot of the body. Yeah, but Ben was right, Devin

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Speaker 2: is somehow at the finale, he's in the top two.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad he's in the top two. One of my

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Speaker 2: favorite moments of Bachelor, of Resa Bachelor history now is

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Speaker 2: Jen saying, like, I love you freaking idiot. Like, how

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Speaker 2: cute was that? That was such a cute way of

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Speaker 2: dropping the I love you in a relationship, like the

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Speaker 2: way that they have.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, I know there's some explanation going on,

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Speaker 4: but why do you think this wasn't said before?

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Speaker 2: I want to think she was trying to sort of

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Speaker 2: keep her eye love you secret. Okay, But then again

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Speaker 2: I say that and she kind of told Marcus that

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Speaker 2: she loved him. I think she reserves the I love

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Speaker 2: you for like the moment of like I need to

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Speaker 2: prove my feelings to this person.

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Speaker 3: Are we like.

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Speaker 4: Sixteen of sixteen season since I was the Bachelor, where

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Speaker 4: somebody has told two people they love them.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Ben, everybody has said that I'm in love with

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Speaker 2: the final two people. Since you did it, it's just

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Speaker 2: you really just said a precedent. You've made everybody feel

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Speaker 2: comfortable in loving two people at the same time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I ruined the show.

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Speaker 4: So Devin obviously has told he you know that she

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Speaker 4: loves him. His reactions beautiful. It's kind of shocking to me, though,

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Speaker 4: Like it is shocking that that was the reaction she had.

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Speaker 4: I didn't expect it or see it coming.

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Speaker 5: Neither did I.

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Speaker 2: And even when he was telling her, I don't know

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Speaker 2: whe there's the music and it was throwing me off

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Speaker 2: or what. But they got me. They got me. I

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Speaker 2: was like, she's gonna she's gonna tell it.

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Speaker 5: She'll let them gently down now.

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Speaker 2: And then and there it was the I love you

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Speaker 2: freaking idiot and it was the cutest things. And now

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Speaker 2: it makes me sad that we still think that she

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Speaker 2: ends up alone and she doesn't end up with Devan,

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Speaker 2: because man, I'm rooting for them.

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Speaker 4: It is shocking, That's what I was gonna say. It's

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Speaker 4: shocking that we still have this theory that she ends

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Speaker 4: up alone. I might be changing that theory because I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't know how this goes wrong in one week. Now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm going to say that what the thing

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Speaker 2: that seems most plausible for what goes wrong is that

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Speaker 2: she ends up thinking that she ends up wanting it

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Speaker 2: to be Marcus in the end, and then Marcus is

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Speaker 2: like no, and then she says, okay, well, then I

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Speaker 2: can't just fall back on fall back on Devin. Sure,

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Speaker 2: and then Devin tries to propose, and that's when she says,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to stop you. Or it could be just

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Speaker 2: very typical. It could be super typical. Devin's the first

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Speaker 2: one up there. She doesn't want him to get down

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Speaker 2: on one knee because that's just a moment that we

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Speaker 2: all hope a personally does once in their life and

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Speaker 2: doesn't waste it on a TV moment.

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Speaker 3: You except for some people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So then she stops him, and then who knows,

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Speaker 2: then Marcus comes down the aisle and then they live

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Speaker 2: happily ever after. Could go down like that too, and

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Speaker 2: we would have actually been thrown off by all the

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Speaker 2: good teasers.

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Speaker 4: It's been a while since you and I've been drastically

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Speaker 4: thrown off, and I'm ready for it if it needs

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Speaker 4: to happen that way. The Marcus jin situation you feel

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Speaker 4: strongly about it still.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he doesn't love her enough. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to get there. And I

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Speaker 2: still think it's very weird that it was like I'm trying,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little late to keep trying.

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Speaker 4: Like we said last week, we kind of gave or yesterday,

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Speaker 4: I guess we gave our synopsis on what we think

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Speaker 4: it feels like to fall in love with your forever

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Speaker 4: partner and definitely what you want to feel. Is it

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Speaker 4: interesting to you now at all? I mean, I know

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Speaker 4: you've always been a Jonathan's supporter since day one, that

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Speaker 4: knowing where Marcus was at that Jen said goodbye to

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Speaker 4: Jonathan and not Marcus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good point, Ben, I was thinking that, and yes,

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Speaker 2: Jonathan had me even from the Mummy rap, and you

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Speaker 2: did not get it.

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Speaker 5: I did you thought that you thought that he was

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Speaker 5: going to get eliminated so early? Because of that?

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Speaker 4: I think he's a great dude. I just I thought

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Speaker 4: the Mummy rap was wild, but I mean he did it.

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Speaker 4: He's crushed it. But yeah, I think he's stole in

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Speaker 4: the hearts of a lot of people, and you concluded, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I think she just ran a big risk by

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Speaker 2: taking on Marcus over Jonathan. But what it proved to

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Speaker 2: me was that Jonathan was never going to be it

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Speaker 2: because she's willing to take the risk with Marcus by

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Speaker 2: letting Jonathan go.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think to close out this episode, I think

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Speaker 4: you do have to give you your guests on how

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Speaker 4: this does play out, like.

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Speaker 5: If you were between my two theories.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like, give us what how you think this actually

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Speaker 4: goes down during the.

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Speaker 2: Finale, because they say it is different than any other

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Speaker 2: Bachelor at ending. I'm gonna go with the theory that

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Speaker 2: Marcus is gonna leave, Devin will be the second place choice,

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Speaker 2: and she knows that she can't accept a proposal from

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Speaker 2: a second place and she does leave alone.

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Speaker 3: How does that?

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Speaker 4: How do you feel about that after watching a full

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Speaker 4: season and that's how it ends?

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Speaker 2: No, Like you said in our previous episode about episode eight,

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Speaker 2: I feel like that is the fair and authentic thing

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Speaker 2: to do, except it makes me sad because it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make me sad as a viewer for a law of

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Speaker 2: being like, eh, I invest in my time in this,

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Speaker 2: It's fine.

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Speaker 5: I invest in my time.

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Speaker 2: As it because like every episode is entertaining, and like

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Speaker 2: I care about these people. You know, it makes me

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Speaker 2: sad because I care about these people at this point,

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Speaker 2: but like I'm not sad about wasting time. That's like

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Speaker 2: absolutely ridiculous. I'm sad because I say I'm sad, but

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Speaker 2: like I don't know what's gonna happen. I would be

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Speaker 2: sad because I just, I just I have grown to

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Speaker 2: really have feelings for Devon. Really, yeah, I really just

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Speaker 2: find him to be a very rootable, emotional character. And

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Speaker 2: I would also obviously feel sad for Jen, and that's

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Speaker 2: so obvious because you get the role of bachelorette and

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Speaker 2: then it doesn't work out for you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the gen's part messes with me the most.

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Speaker 4: I think Devon's gonna be crushed. We saw him during

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Speaker 4: the last episode so conflicted when he didn't think Jen

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Speaker 4: loved him. Now he believes that Jen loves him. I

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Speaker 4: think he fully believes this is his right.

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Speaker 5: What's gonna make it so much worse?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it could have been better for him if she

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Speaker 4: just would have said, yeah, you know what, you should

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Speaker 4: go home. I think he right now he is invested,

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Speaker 4: which makes a really wild life show. I think it's

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Speaker 4: going to be really hard for him to sit beside her,

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Speaker 4: to see her, to have this conversation. And I feel

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Speaker 4: bad for Jin because I think she did a great

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Speaker 4: job this season. I just don't think she connected with

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Speaker 4: any of these guys at the level that we've seen

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Speaker 4: other seasons. I don't know why we weren't there.

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Speaker 2: Just wasn't there, Like the guy could have just not

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Speaker 2: been there. But maybe we should just save this conversation for.

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Speaker 5: When we know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't know, because we don't know.

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Speaker 2: But there is one more thing I do want to mention.

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Speaker 2: I cannot believe they made poor Jaquim or other Bachelor

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Speaker 2: in Paradise Spider star. This man is going to be

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Speaker 2: a Paradise Star. His facial expressions are amazing.

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Speaker 6: And I just I don't know how he's he's been

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Speaker 6: such a trooper with these spiders. I was thinking about

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Speaker 6: like the things that I know, like the things that

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Speaker 6: I would sacrifice in life, said like not touch a spider,

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Speaker 6: not touch these spiders.

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Speaker 5: That he's had to hold Angela's. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm just like there's so many things that I'd be like, no,

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Speaker 2: do this to me before that, do that to brand me.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, just don't let me touch that eything with

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Speaker 4: a leg. It's gonna be a wild last episode, Ashley,

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Speaker 4: you've given your ideas on how this ends.

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Speaker 5: Ben, your last guest.

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Speaker 4: I do think she still leaves alone, and I think

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Speaker 4: though I have this wild theory I'm gonna throw out there.

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Speaker 4: I think she leaves alone and we go to the

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Speaker 4: live show and her and Devin have rekindled.

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Speaker 1: The r.

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Speaker 5: Oh. That could be cute, I thought. Okay, quote me

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Speaker 5: on it.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well you are on record, all right, guys,

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Speaker 2: Well we'll see you next week after Labor Day.

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Speaker 5: Don't forget.

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Speaker 2: As Jesse said, the episode airs on Tuesday nights, and

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Speaker 2: we will have our recap on Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Until now, next time, i'ven't been, I've.

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Speaker 5: Been, Ashley. See you love you bye.

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Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts