Speaker 1: Hey, this is Brian Alvarez and this is today's edition
Speaker 1: of the Wrestling Observer Daily podcast on the eight Side Network.
Speaker 1: Ready are you ready? Let's get it all. How's it going, everybody?
Speaker 1: Brian Alvarez here on or Wrestling over Live. We are
Speaker 1: here every day Monday through Friday Neo Cevy three Eastern Sunday,
Speaker 1: three Pacific, sixth Eastern. Well, it is a Monday here
Speaker 1: on this program. You know that means last night was
Speaker 1: a w New Japan Forbidden Door. What do you think about? That? Show?
Speaker 1: Turned out to me exactly as I was told the
Speaker 1: day of the show was announced. A lot of people
Speaker 1: upset didn't get dream matches. My god, what an awesome show.
Speaker 1: It ended up being in the ring, one great match
Speaker 1: after another. There was nothing on the show that you
Speaker 1: could even remotely call a bad match. There were certainly
Speaker 1: matches better than others, but holy smokes, what a show.
Speaker 1: Talk about that. Here on the program today, we've got
Speaker 1: all of the matches. I've got updates on John Moxley
Speaker 1: and Adam Cole, one of whom was injured and one
Speaker 1: of whom was not. So that's part of the update
Speaker 1: right there. We have also got an update on Vince
Speaker 1: McMahon long form New York Magazine article written by the
Speaker 1: author of the upcoming Vince McMahon unauthorized biography. In a
Speaker 1: long form interview, a former w w E wrestler corroborated
Speaker 1: female referee Rita Chatterton's sexual assault accusations against Vince McMahon.
Speaker 1: We'll tell you about that here today on the show.
Speaker 1: We have also got Raw tonight, the twenty year anniversary
Speaker 1: of John Cena and w w E, which is funny
Speaker 1: because man time flies. At the same time, it's only
Speaker 1: been twenty years, Jimminy Christmas feels like it's been well,
Speaker 1: I guess it has been decades now, hasn't it. We've
Speaker 1: also got SmackDown, We've got Rampage a w is on
Speaker 1: Wednesday with Blood and Guts. N x T is tomorrow
Speaker 1: and we will take your feedback as well. Four to
Speaker 1: five seven eight zero seven five six six is the
Speaker 1: phone number. That is four to five seven eight zero
Speaker 1: seven s six Brian at Wrestling Observer dot com at
Speaker 1: Brian elba is on Twitter and if you want more
Speaker 1: on Forbidden Door Wrestling Observer dot com. If you're a subscriber,
Speaker 1: did our and fifteen minutes with Anny Hour and fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes with Dave last night. So we'll love to get
Speaker 1: into back at a moment Observer Live back in the show.
Speaker 1: Brian Alvarez here, Wrestling Observer Alive. Mike Number Bed also
Speaker 1: Wrestling Observer dot Com. We're gonna try and get separate
Speaker 1: BBS video up here one way or the other at
Speaker 1: some point here on the program today. Well, last night
Speaker 1: was a w Forbidden Door and I want to start
Speaker 1: with an update, although we don't really have much of
Speaker 1: an update on Adam Cole if he didn't see the
Speaker 1: show last night. Adam Cole suffered was believed to be
Speaker 1: a concussion during his match for the i w U
Speaker 1: g P World Heavyweight title. It was j White, Hangman
Speaker 1: Ocada and Adam Cole and I don't know the move.
Speaker 1: I don't know when I was given the impression. It
Speaker 1: was actually somewhat early in the match, and then he
Speaker 1: worked the entire rest of the match with a concussion
Speaker 1: and uh, for whatever reason, it wasn't until the very
Speaker 1: end of the match that he was in there with Okada.
Speaker 1: Okada went for the Rainmaker. Cole is supposed to duck,
Speaker 1: which he did, but then he just stayed down and Uh, Adam,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. J White chimped in the ring, tossed Ocatta
Speaker 1: out of the ring, rolled over Cole, held him down
Speaker 1: and uh and pinned him. And then afterwards they had
Speaker 1: the doctor hit the ring to check on Adam Cole,
Speaker 1: and uh, he did leave under his own power. I
Speaker 1: was told that, you know, when they got him backstage
Speaker 1: to examine him, he was feeling all right, was what
Speaker 1: I was told, but he was clearly there was an injury.
Speaker 1: And this is you know, he's been working with a
Speaker 1: shoulder injury if you watched the show, I mean his
Speaker 1: shoulders all taped up, and he had had another injury
Speaker 1: in the Samoa Joe match, which I believe was also
Speaker 1: a concussion. So he had to two concussions in the
Speaker 1: span of a month, and he needs time off to
Speaker 1: get better. And hopefully he gets a lot of time
Speaker 1: off to get better, because you know that's two matches
Speaker 1: where not only did he suffer concussion, but he still
Speaker 1: managed to work an excellent match with a concussion. So
Speaker 1: a healthy Adam Cole is what we need. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's never good to suffer two head injuries in the
Speaker 1: span of one month, so wishing all the best to
Speaker 1: him and hopefully gets checked out and everything is all right,
Speaker 1: and that's the update on him. There was also a
Speaker 1: main event with John Moxley in Hiroshitanahashi and John Moxley's
Speaker 1: doing the match and he rolls outside and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden he comes back to the ring and he
Speaker 1: is gushing blood and uh, I immediately because it's John Moxley,
Speaker 1: just thought, well he uh he bladed why, I don't
Speaker 1: know it's all he had hit with a pipe or
Speaker 1: anything like that. He just came up and he's he's
Speaker 1: bleeding everywhere. So I'm doing the show with the vinny
Speaker 1: and uh and I think it was a vinny, or
Speaker 1: maybe it was the announcers and Vinny, but you know,
Speaker 1: everyone starts talking about how I think they clonked heads
Speaker 1: on the on the sling blade and it was it
Speaker 1: was hard way, and I never thought that it would
Speaker 1: be hard way because I don't know if John Moxley
Speaker 1: actually travels town to town with blades, but I do
Speaker 1: know that this brother's got a lot of blades. And uh,
Speaker 1: I think in the the Filthy Tom Lawler Fred Rosser match,
Speaker 1: I think that they got the actual blade for that
Speaker 1: match from John Moxley, so he may actually have like
Speaker 1: a doctor's kit full of blades. But anyway, so once
Speaker 1: everybody was asking about it, I I sent a message
Speaker 1: asking if it was a uh, if it was hard Way,
Speaker 1: and I did not mention the word blade. I I
Speaker 1: simply asked hard Way and the answer was yes. So
Speaker 1: it's possible that the person that I sent this message
Speaker 1: to was confused and when they read it, they thought
Speaker 1: I was asking if it was a blade job and
Speaker 1: they said yes. But I was told that it was
Speaker 1: it was hard Way. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: that aspect doesn't matter. It was a Moxley match, Edie's
Speaker 1: bleeding everywhere. Now what does matter is uh. Then during
Speaker 1: the Observer radio show, Dave mentioned that during the post
Speaker 1: show press conference, and I don't know if this was
Speaker 1: during the press conference or if it was like you know,
Speaker 1: jibber jabber after the press conference, because those things happened,
Speaker 1: but he mentioned that Moxley had stated that he might
Speaker 1: have a concussion, and what I was told was that
Speaker 1: Moxley does not have a concussion. And if you've ever
Speaker 1: watched a like a Moxley interview and Actually, I think
Speaker 1: that he did this exact same interview after the Filthy
Speaker 1: Tom match at to five. Whenever he has a bloody match,
Speaker 1: he goes, uh, you know, I may have blood loss.
Speaker 1: I might be concussed. Uh, it's part of his his
Speaker 1: in character stick. So anyway, he does not have a concussion.
Speaker 1: So John Moxley is fine. He may or may not
Speaker 1: have bladed, but he did bleed everywhere, and he did
Speaker 1: beat Hiroshi Tanahashi to win the a W Interim Championship,
Speaker 1: and so at some point he will face uh, he
Speaker 1: will face see him Punk. When see him Punk is
Speaker 1: ready to return from his quote lower leg injury. But
Speaker 1: we got a lot to talk about on this show.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll start with just the main event. Mike,
Speaker 1: what did you think, as you are represented here by
Speaker 1: g Raff, of the main event of this program, I thought,
Speaker 1: other than the finish of the four way when he
Speaker 1: came to the title matches, you know, the obvious wonkiness
Speaker 1: there for the reasons that you explained, I thought that
Speaker 1: was a really great match, and you know, I was
Speaker 1: thinking about it when I was watching that. When he
Speaker 1: comes to Hangman page, there's probably some people and in fact,
Speaker 1: I know there are on the outside of a w
Speaker 1: that look at him and go, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: see what they see. The booking is this, The booking
Speaker 1: is that. But you know what, he's kind of like,
Speaker 1: He's gonna end up being like a w sting because
Speaker 1: no matter what, he's going to rise to the occasion
Speaker 1: and no matter what you've said about the build into
Speaker 1: that match, and a lot of people had a lot
Speaker 1: of opinions, especially on that one, he's great and he's
Speaker 1: going to be such a future star for them, and
Speaker 1: he for all of the talk going into that match
Speaker 1: and how wonky it was, he really rose above and
Speaker 1: I thought that was great, and I thought j White
Speaker 1: was great with that in that match too, with Tanahashi
Speaker 1: and Moxley. Tanahashi is just the greatest. You know, I've
Speaker 1: been a long time fan of his. I've been able
Speaker 1: to watch him for a long time. And he's an
Speaker 1: older guy who has taken a beating and you could
Speaker 1: see sometimes where he is moving a little bit mechanically,
Speaker 1: but hey, he can still turn it on and he's
Speaker 1: still one of the best in the world when he does.
Speaker 1: And a perfect dance partner with with John Moxley in
Speaker 1: the aspect of we've seen Tanahashi against everybody. We've seen
Speaker 1: him in the pure garbage match against Kento, which was
Speaker 1: a reference during the match. We've seen him in all
Speaker 1: sorts of these different such wations. But with John Moxley,
Speaker 1: who you can slow it down a little bit. For Tanahashi,
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about Nato or a bushy
Speaker 1: matches where he feels like he's got to keep up.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit slower with Moxley. And with Moxley
Speaker 1: it brings him up a little bit because sometimes with
Speaker 1: the punching kick and he's got a certain style of
Speaker 1: match and you know there's gonna be plunder at some point,
Speaker 1: he's probably gonna bleed, which he did, but it brings
Speaker 1: him up a level two to work with Hanahashi. And
Speaker 1: I thought it was a great cap or on what
Speaker 1: was a great A pretty great night. Now it's is
Speaker 1: Was it one of the all time great shows? I'll
Speaker 1: leave that for other people to discuss. I don't really
Speaker 1: think it was, but I don't really care. You know,
Speaker 1: this was for me a step one of these two
Speaker 1: companies working together for the first time. I understand that
Speaker 1: there were politics involved. I understand that there were injuries,
Speaker 1: and I tried to block out as much as the
Speaker 1: of the banter and stuff on social media last week
Speaker 1: because there was so much that at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, it was just like, you know, when everything's
Speaker 1: gonna be said on come Sunday night, Monday morning, people
Speaker 1: are going to be satisfied with what they saw. And
Speaker 1: for the most part, from what I've seen, and again
Speaker 1: maybe my timeline is a little bit too clean or
Speaker 1: a lot cleaner than other people's, everybody seems to be
Speaker 1: in agreement that it was a really good show. The
Speaker 1: surprises some expected like Cesarro, it deliberate as expected. Some
Speaker 1: surprises like Shabbata coming out there, I mean, with his
Speaker 1: music hitting the entire place, going ballistic. Incredible moments happened.
Speaker 1: So we can we can nitpick it to death. We
Speaker 1: can talk about some of the things pick this show.
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? If you're gonna nitpick this show,
Speaker 1: get off the chat today and go away, you nerds.
Speaker 1: This was an all timer. You know, it's funny about
Speaker 1: this being an All timers people. People are gonna talk
Speaker 1: about this for a year the way they talk about
Speaker 1: that first All in. It's just this, this classic show,
Speaker 1: top to bottom. There was not anything resembling a bad
Speaker 1: match on this show. Like the closest you could come
Speaker 1: to to say that there was like a bad match
Speaker 1: in the show was like the thunder rosa Tony Storm match,
Speaker 1: and that was not a bad match. So the point
Speaker 1: of this is there's so much talent in a w
Speaker 1: and there's so much talent in New Japan that for
Speaker 1: one year people are gonna talk about this is being
Speaker 1: an all time great show. But then next year there's
Speaker 1: this door too, and then all of a sudden, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be even better than this one. He'll question me, Mike,
Speaker 1: you'll find out this show today. No, it's not. Thank god,
Speaker 1: there's a break. Go fix your camera, Observer Live. I
Speaker 1: got the show. Bran Albert is here Wrestling Observer Live. Yes,
Speaker 1: we got Mike's video back just in time for me
Speaker 1: to go over the entire show. And I'll let him
Speaker 1: say a word for a second. This great show, this
Speaker 1: forbidden door of greatness. We had Chris Jericho, Minor Suzuki,
Speaker 1: Sammy Cavara beating Eddie Kingston Wheeler. You didn't showed a
Speaker 1: Umino eighteen minutes fifty seven seconds, great great opening match.
Speaker 1: They had a lot of star making performances on this show,
Speaker 1: and the one in this match was old Show Domino.
Speaker 1: God darned, this guy just was out of this world
Speaker 1: and the place went crazy for this guy, and Jericho
Speaker 1: sold like crazy for him before finally hitting him with
Speaker 1: the uh whatever they call it the back elbow and
Speaker 1: pinning him in the middle of the ring to uh
Speaker 1: get a big win to set up the Blood and
Speaker 1: Guts show which is coming up on Wednesday and uh.
Speaker 1: Then later in the show, they were interviewing show Amino
Speaker 1: and Jericho showed up and burned him with a fireball
Speaker 1: because he's a wizard. So one of these days, one
Speaker 1: of these days show Domino's beating Chris Jericho. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be for a while, but that day
Speaker 1: is gonna come. And this was a great opener. Then
Speaker 1: we had another great match FTR beat United Empire and
Speaker 1: Rapungi Vice. They did an angle where Dax Harwood. They
Speaker 1: they there's no secret that this show was pretty much cursed,
Speaker 1: and so they decided to do a spot where someone
Speaker 1: got injured on the show, and unfortunately, uh, someone actually
Speaker 1: got injured on the show later, which totally sucked, but
Speaker 1: this was at least a worked injury. Dax went down,
Speaker 1: sold his shoulder, walked to the back, and then later
Speaker 1: he comes back out with his shoulder taped up. It's
Speaker 1: only about like three or four minutes, so it wasn't like,
Speaker 1: you know, he missed the entire match and then won
Speaker 1: the titles. So he comes back, the place goes crazy
Speaker 1: because he's back. He makes his giant come back. They
Speaker 1: go back and forth, and finally at the end they
Speaker 1: hit the Big Shatter Machine on Rocky Romero, the former
Speaker 1: Shatter Machine now the Big Rig and they win the titles.
Speaker 1: There now the i w d g P Ring of
Speaker 1: Honor and Triple A Tag Team Champions, which one would
Speaker 1: think sets up a match with the Young Bucks to
Speaker 1: unify all four titles. So we'll see if that happens.
Speaker 1: Uh maybe that they could hold that off until uh
Speaker 1: till all out. But this was a great match. Fans
Speaker 1: went nuts. This was good stuff. Pac won the four Way.
Speaker 1: How did you guys see that that show I did
Speaker 1: with Denise where he did predictions? Yeah, who predicted Pac? Oh?
Speaker 1: That would be me. I predicted him and he won
Speaker 1: beat Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors. Clark Connors was
Speaker 1: the guy that got the star making performance here, and
Speaker 1: they set it up great because the first half of
Speaker 1: this match they treated this guy like, oh, he's the
Speaker 1: fourth wheel in this match. We got the three big stars.
Speaker 1: It was supposed to be a sheet, but he got hurt. Oh,
Speaker 1: Clark's gonna get in the match, the guy that lost
Speaker 1: in the qualifying match, and man, they just beat him
Speaker 1: down and they beat him down and he'd try and
Speaker 1: do something on Miro and Miro which is no sell
Speaker 1: at look at him and then beat him down. But
Speaker 1: then Miro goes for a spear and he goes through
Speaker 1: this table and Clark gets to ring and this dude
Speaker 1: made the greatest comeback, and these fans are losing their minds,
Speaker 1: are channing, let's go Clark and he would get cut
Speaker 1: off and they started booing like Malachi Black or whoever
Speaker 1: because they wanted to see more Clark. And then finally, uh,
Speaker 1: we get the return of Mero. He puts the game
Speaker 1: over on Pac. Uh broken up. Uh, there's the black
Speaker 1: mist right in the face, which I guess because it's
Speaker 1: a four way is not at e Q and then
Speaker 1: finally pockets the Black Arrow immediately into the Brutalizer, he
Speaker 1: submits Clark Honnors and Pock is the first ever a
Speaker 1: w All Atlantic Mid Pacific Champion. And this was another
Speaker 1: great match. Then we had Sting, Darby and Shingo versus
Speaker 1: the Young Bucks and l Phantasmo. Everybody in this match
Speaker 1: decided we're gonna make Sting into a super star because
Speaker 1: you know, like Stings not a superstar. So he's the
Speaker 1: young talent that got elevated in this match. Dude, they
Speaker 1: did everything. He's no selling this and dad, he's beaten.
Speaker 1: Dudes up. He was awesome in this match. And you
Speaker 1: mentioned like Hiroshi Tanaha, she's gonna be the new japan
Speaker 1: version of Sting. There's a big difference at this point,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how. I don't know how. What
Speaker 1: about Hangman Page, I said Hangman Page was going to
Speaker 1: be a W's version where no matter what the outside thinks,
Speaker 1: no matter how he is booked, the fans are going
Speaker 1: to take Hayman Page and go he's ours. He was
Speaker 1: here from day one and he always lives up to
Speaker 1: when he should in the ring, and Sting was go ahead,
Speaker 1: Sting was what was always always that way for w
Speaker 1: CW fans. I see, well, I'm looking at it a
Speaker 1: different way. I'm looking at this stings the old They
Speaker 1: can go until he's sixty. Oh Man, dom Dom, you
Speaker 1: better get on this guy. You texted me, Um, you
Speaker 1: weren't even at the studio on Friday and you had
Speaker 1: to bury me over text message. Now look at this
Speaker 1: guy here, we finally get his video and now he's
Speaker 1: gonna got a violation here. You should be ashamed of yourself, Mike,
Speaker 1: I'm disgusted. But anyway, young young hero Sting the biggest
Speaker 1: superstar in this match, and uh, he was just awesome.
Speaker 1: And then finally at the end, Shingo had made in
Speaker 1: Japan on Fantasmo got the pin. I thought this match
Speaker 1: was great, and we're not even going to Mike's opinion
Speaker 1: at this point. He's censored. Then we had thunder Rosa
Speaker 1: Tony Storm tail of two matches. First five minutes technical wrestling, grappling.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. Second second five minutes. It was all right.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was great, but it was all right.
Speaker 1: It wasn't bad, I'll tell you that much. Tony did
Speaker 1: the uh, the most brutal finisher at all of a
Speaker 1: w which somehow isn't a finisher. The flying hip attack
Speaker 1: to the face of thunder Rosa and then hit her
Speaker 1: with the thunder Rose hit the final reckoning. Dustin's finish
Speaker 1: got the p and I thought, this, uh, it was good.
Speaker 1: It was not a great match. When this is the
Speaker 1: weakest match on the show. You had a great show,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, everybody, all of you that
Speaker 1: are allowed to speak. And we had will Osprey versus
Speaker 1: Orange Cassidy. Oh man, what a match. It started out.
Speaker 1: It started out just fine, like the first five seven minutes.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's all right, the sure ain't no
Speaker 1: will Osprey Nick Wayne match. But then the second half
Speaker 1: of this match, they turned it up and they just
Speaker 1: they had a banger, as they called it. They had
Speaker 1: a banger, and uh, will Osprey end up getting to
Speaker 1: win as everybody would expect. But this was actually very
Speaker 1: much like the Nick Wayne match in the sense that
Speaker 1: nobody believed that Nick Wayne was gonna beat will Osprey,
Speaker 1: and nobody believed that Orange Cassidy was gonna beat will Osprey.
Speaker 1: But they had a couple of near near falls there
Speaker 1: at the end where the fans forgot that they knew
Speaker 1: the guy couldn't win and they went nuts for him.
Speaker 1: But very good match. Then afterwards we had a big
Speaker 1: schmaz and who should come down to make the save?
Speaker 1: But of all people, not Kenny Omega but Shabbada Shabata's
Speaker 1: music hit. The place goes crazy. He comes down, he
Speaker 1: beats up Assie open, he uh, he lays out will
Speaker 1: a spray and then Orange Cassidy awards him with the
Speaker 1: aviators and a great moment. I don't think it's actually
Speaker 1: leading to anything after Shabata, you know, did what he
Speaker 1: did at the Tokyo Dome. But man, the fans here
Speaker 1: in this building, they loved it. Claudio Cassannoli and Zach
Speaker 1: Saber Jr. When eighteen minutes it was a very very
Speaker 1: good match. I did not think it was an excellent match,
Speaker 1: but I thought it was very good. Cloudio did a
Speaker 1: superior job selling, like to the point where people are
Speaker 1: asking after if he's injured, but he wasn't. He's just great.
Speaker 1: And Zach Saber Jr. Didn't do is as many counters
Speaker 1: as he does in your your typical Zach Saber junior
Speaker 1: nuch pan style match. This would have been like, uh,
Speaker 1: when Zack Saber Jr. Was in n x T for
Speaker 1: the was that tournament that he was in? What was
Speaker 1: the tournament he was in with n x T. You
Speaker 1: can speak for a second. Just watch your language. The
Speaker 1: the Cruise roy Title, the Cruise the Weight Classic Classic,
Speaker 1: Cruise the Way Classic. This would have been like one
Speaker 1: of those matches where he's in there. It's a very
Speaker 1: good match, but it's like a uh, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a cloud EO w w E style match and it
Speaker 1: was great, like it would have been the best match
Speaker 1: on most w w E pay per views. But in
Speaker 1: the end, Uh, Claudio did hit the uppercut, he hit
Speaker 1: the arm trap, power bomb, he got the win heading
Speaker 1: into blood and guts. It was his debut. It doesn't
Speaker 1: take anything away from the Bryan Danielson dream match was
Speaker 1: Zach Saber Jr. The right man went over and it
Speaker 1: was a very good match. Uh. The j White Hangman
Speaker 1: Adam cole Olcada match. We talked about this. It was
Speaker 1: a really really good match until the finish. It was sad.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what else to say about it,
Speaker 1: but you know, it started slow. All of these guys
Speaker 1: would have had a better singles match, but they did
Speaker 1: some great four away spots there at the end until
Speaker 1: the wheels fell off the wagon and uh and J
Speaker 1: White retained. That led to Moxley Tanahashi made event, which
Speaker 1: we talked about, and Uh, I didn't think Moxley slowed
Speaker 1: it down at all for Tona Hashi. I actually thought
Speaker 1: the opposite. I thought he went in there and it
Speaker 1: was like, we're gonna drag a twenty Tonahashi match out
Speaker 1: of you. You're you're putting words in my mouth there.
Speaker 1: I didn't say that anybody was going to be dragged
Speaker 1: down or anything, not to say dragged down. You said
Speaker 1: he went slower for him, did you not? Well, I
Speaker 1: mean in comparison, I was talking about when he comes
Speaker 1: to Tonahashi, in there with Niato and in there with
Speaker 1: a Bush, in there with those expectations, the Shingo and
Speaker 1: what he has expectations for himself. The fact that he
Speaker 1: can wrestle guys like Moxley, like Jericho, be able to
Speaker 1: do some things more in an American style. Again, it
Speaker 1: just to me, it elongates his career and it chose
Speaker 1: another diverse side of him that again we've seen it
Speaker 1: all with Tanahashi. I'm not saying anything that's like brand
Speaker 1: new or anything like that, but when you always see
Speaker 1: him in Japan and then you see him against foreigners
Speaker 1: like Moxley who's got a distinct style, it's a nice balance.
Speaker 1: And they tended they worked with each other. I thought
Speaker 1: incredibly well. Well, they did work incredibly well. But man,
Speaker 1: this Moxley was he was just going balls to the
Speaker 1: wall in this match right here, and and tana Hashi
Speaker 1: was gonna stay with him or die. And you know
Speaker 1: what he did. He stayed with him. Boy, this guy
Speaker 1: got put through the ringer in this match right here.
Speaker 1: Moxley hit him with the death Writer, which in fact
Speaker 1: they called the death Writer, and he pinned him to
Speaker 1: win the title. And then I know everyone hated the
Speaker 1: post match, but they did a big brawl to set
Speaker 1: up the blood Guts and in fact Claudio went out
Speaker 1: there and did a twenty reper giant swing out old Matt.
Speaker 1: It was great. Back in a moment with more Observer Live,
Speaker 1: Hey hey, look, if you didn't like that post show brawl,
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna argue it. I tweeted my idea which
Speaker 1: was after the match should have had them do their
Speaker 1: respect thing and then seeham Punk's music hits. He comes
Speaker 1: out on crutches, He presents the interim title to the winner,
Speaker 1: and then they do the stare down because that's the
Speaker 1: one that's coming up. It's Chicago, dude. You could add
Speaker 1: se him Punk come out crutches, but they didn't. They
Speaker 1: did a big brawl to set up the blood and
Speaker 1: Guts show this coming Wednesday, which should be bloody be
Speaker 1: my guess a little take a prediction, dude, They're better
Speaker 1: enough be guts. This place has got enough problems. If
Speaker 1: someone's guts come out on Wednesday, I mean it's time
Speaker 1: to just like wrap it up. That's true. On national TV,
Speaker 1: they may have to after that, they may be told
Speaker 1: that the yeah, they shouldn't do that, but they might
Speaker 1: get a violation. You know, everybody that wants it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be ranked, whether it's a great pay per
Speaker 1: viewer or not. It was a great first step, and
Speaker 1: as was mentioned, there were a lot of people that
Speaker 1: got to be seen for the first time by a
Speaker 1: new audience. For anybody, anything anybody says about how tuned
Speaker 1: in that a W fan base is the new Japan,
Speaker 1: Not everybody is going to be it's impossible for tap
Speaker 1: and so to see Desperado for the first time, to
Speaker 1: see Clark Connors for the first time, to see some
Speaker 1: of these people, and then to see some of these
Speaker 1: other people that other people know, you know, the pop
Speaker 1: that Shabbata God for somebody who doesn't know really what
Speaker 1: he actually means to New Japan and one of the
Speaker 1: Three Musketeers and then generation with Tanahashi and Nakamura and
Speaker 1: they don't know how you know, he's training the guy
Speaker 1: Clarke Connors who had that comeback in the Ring, Well,
Speaker 1: Shabbatah helped teach that because those fundamentals, you know, will
Speaker 1: never die. And you see have great of a white
Speaker 1: meat baby face he gets to be right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: you want to see more of those guys. Phantasmo obviously
Speaker 1: what Pantasmo does. If you don't like the young Bucks,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna like Phantasmo. In fact, you're gonna probably
Speaker 1: hate him even more. Oh well, he's incredibly talented. He's great.
Speaker 1: And when he turns some of that stuff down, because
Speaker 1: sometimes I believe it's too much too especially when you
Speaker 1: watch him New Japan, he's great and he's physically impressive
Speaker 1: and he's fantastic. And Osprey, you can bitch and moan
Speaker 1: and wind and complaining about Orange Cassidy and him being
Speaker 1: the choice for that match. Fine, whatever, they had the match,
Speaker 1: and there could not have been a better opponent to
Speaker 1: make Orange Cassidy look so good, then somebody as good
Speaker 1: as well Osprey, somebody is physically impressive as well Osprey.
Speaker 1: And I just again, there was a lot that took
Speaker 1: place with a lot of the complaints leading into this
Speaker 1: show that hopefully have evaporated away. Apparently not because I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that the post match got such a you know,
Speaker 1: it was annoyed people so much. I mean, I thought,
Speaker 1: honestly the giant swing would have alleviated any you know,
Speaker 1: complaints that anybody would have about the thing, but I
Speaker 1: guess not. But bottom line is, it was a really
Speaker 1: good show. And again this was a great step one.
Speaker 1: This isn't even as good as they could do you
Speaker 1: know tomorrow, let alone a year from now when things
Speaker 1: are figured out better, when they'll probably do another one
Speaker 1: of these. And you know it also, even though there's
Speaker 1: nobody in the g one, if you're a new japan fan,
Speaker 1: it makes you think about the Dome show, and it
Speaker 1: makes you think about some of the possibilities over those
Speaker 1: three days that New Japan is going to want to
Speaker 1: do everything to make sure that they can sell as
Speaker 1: many tickets as possible to and get as many eyeballs on.
Speaker 1: You know, if there are good things coming from this,
Speaker 1: and that was the whole point of this show. Proson
Speaker 1: here says, this is my first time watching a lot
Speaker 1: of the New Chepan wrestlers wrestle, so I had a
Speaker 1: blast not going to lie. I knew Orange Cassidy was
Speaker 1: not going to win, but that near fall after the
Speaker 1: beach break got me. This person here says, why is
Speaker 1: it impossible for crowds to I don't know why they
Speaker 1: can't count the giant swings close enough? Might make your issues.
Speaker 1: I said twenty and David to correct me to nineteam,
Speaker 1: and let's give that crowd credit. You know, odds are
Speaker 1: anybody that was watching the buy in probably already had
Speaker 1: their mindset on buying this show. If you're going to
Speaker 1: do something else, then you were going to do something else.
Speaker 1: But when you if there was somebody that lingered on
Speaker 1: when you're watching those matches that are essentially they're thrown
Speaker 1: together Nick Camarado and Lance Archer. But you hear that
Speaker 1: crowd and you feel that atmosphe fear. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was a big night. It was a big That's the
Speaker 1: one thing a W's got going for it's still right
Speaker 1: now when he comes to those pay per views, is
Speaker 1: those crowds are electric, and they want to be seen,
Speaker 1: they want to be part of the show, and they
Speaker 1: want to make sure that they try to amplify things.
Speaker 1: So that's the one thing they really have going for them.
Speaker 1: I have had multiple people talk about how awesome it
Speaker 1: was to be able to watch a giant swing with
Speaker 1: twenty revolutions that did not have forty cuts, which I
Speaker 1: had one thousand percent agree with. It was infuriating, you know.
Speaker 1: It's one thing like you know people complain about, oh,
Speaker 1: you know they he had swung twenty times with the
Speaker 1: crowd can of three or whatever. Well, you know, at
Speaker 1: least you can try and count, you know, hard it
Speaker 1: is to count revolutions when they're cutting the camera every
Speaker 1: half revolution. Forty camera cuts for twenty Why do you
Speaker 1: have to cut the camera for a giant swing? Just
Speaker 1: let me look at it. Look at the state that
Speaker 1: this country is in. Are you prize that there are
Speaker 1: people here that can't count for all the complaining and
Speaker 1: negativity this person says, hey into the show, as well
Speaker 1: as all the injuries and card changes for Bin Door
Speaker 1: ended up being exactly like some of us said. It
Speaker 1: would be a great pro wrestling show with some awesome matches,
Speaker 1: and easily one of the top three shows of the
Speaker 1: year so far. By the way, speaking of injuries, UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh, maybe something changed this morning, but
Speaker 1: as of last night, with the exception of Adam Cole,
Speaker 1: it appears nobody else got hurt on the show, so
Speaker 1: thank god for that. Dare I ask you this question,
Speaker 1: which I will How long has Adam, called, to your knowledge,
Speaker 1: been the shoulder been really hurt for I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it's been a while. That's what I was before
Speaker 1: the Samoa Joe match. It seems like I wonder how
Speaker 1: if there's been something lingering even a lot longer than that,
Speaker 1: you know. I I do wonder that now again, he's
Speaker 1: so good, He's so good, you know, and I just
Speaker 1: hopefully he's better again that the concussions, you know, Thinking
Speaker 1: about him when you were saying it during the opening,
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about the concussions and the time
Speaker 1: that he had him you know, it is close together
Speaker 1: and everything, and it's just, yeah, he's just another one
Speaker 1: of those guys that it's there's injuries that happen all
Speaker 1: the time for the big names for this to be
Speaker 1: this many big names at the top of their company,
Speaker 1: and frankly in w W as well. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: the timing of all of this is horrific, but it's
Speaker 1: amazing how the the industry will survive. Forbidden Door is
Speaker 1: reminding me of how awesome crossover shows can be. Leads
Speaker 1: me to want the ultimate crossover show. Well, you ain't
Speaker 1: gonna get w W E versus a W brother unless
Speaker 1: one of them is going out of business, which I
Speaker 1: do not see happening anytime soon. And we saw how
Speaker 1: that went and I don't want to see a a
Speaker 1: redo of that again either. This person here says, do
Speaker 1: you think a W will introduce new japan wrestlers better
Speaker 1: before Forbidden Door to, Well, they already have, like they
Speaker 1: already have. Now we're we're further along now then we
Speaker 1: were a month ago. So, as I mentioned countless times,
Speaker 1: you're going to see more of these new Japan guys
Speaker 1: make appearances in a W because New Japan has New
Speaker 1: Japan Strong, and they're gonna be running shows all year long,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have guys that come over here and
Speaker 1: they come over there, and by the time next June
Speaker 1: rolls around, if you're a regular viewer of a W,
Speaker 1: there will be far fewer instances of you going I
Speaker 1: have no idea who that is. If you've never watched
Speaker 1: New Japan show, you're gonna see and if you bought
Speaker 1: the show, you've already seen virtually everybody except Nito, especially
Speaker 1: if you watched the uh um pre show. So yes,
Speaker 1: we're already in a way better place now than we
Speaker 1: were a month ago. For the next Forbidden Door. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder if r O age you can get off
Speaker 1: to a really good start with that pay per view
Speaker 1: that they've announced coming up. Let's say they're able to
Speaker 1: get a good jump on things and they feel like
Speaker 1: they're in a good place. To me, that can only
Speaker 1: help New Japan Strong and having that crossover. There's so
Speaker 1: many people on the a W roster that are gonna
Speaker 1: need seasoning and and need seasoning and just want to
Speaker 1: travel that could again migrate their way to Japan learn things.
Speaker 1: You know, if you got a guy again, why would
Speaker 1: you not want to have a good relationship with Shabbata
Speaker 1: and have some guys trained under there if you think
Speaker 1: that they are mentally that's the route they want to take,
Speaker 1: you know, So I there's gonna be a lot and
Speaker 1: again that also builds names, you know, it also builds up,
Speaker 1: you know, some familiarity with some of these guys coming over.
Speaker 1: Like again, all showed Amino needed to do was be
Speaker 1: touched by John Moxley and you see where things went
Speaker 1: from there with with with Moxley and his relationship and
Speaker 1: how big of a story he came home with since
Speaker 1: instantaneously because of that. So they did make mistakes here,
Speaker 1: but everything wasn't really jumbled leading into this thing again.
Speaker 1: Step one, they'll learn from our mistakes and just by
Speaker 1: this show happening, people have a lot better idea and
Speaker 1: handle on who some of these other new Japan athletes are.
Speaker 1: First and one, no, if a Ring of Honors should
Speaker 1: run house shows, I feel like they could sell smaller
Speaker 1: venues out and be profitable. No chance, no chance, Ring
Speaker 1: of Honors should be running house shows right now. What
Speaker 1: they should be doing is they have to run TV tapings.
Speaker 1: But you have to have TV before you can run
Speaker 1: TV tapings. Once you've got TV, then you can run
Speaker 1: some TV tapings. A W is barely running house shows
Speaker 1: for crying out loud. Ring of Honor is not going
Speaker 1: to do well doing house now what you could do,
Speaker 1: what you could do is Dark in Elevation. What's the
Speaker 1: difference between Dark and Elevation? Besides the name, I mean
Speaker 1: you could I mean there's two things you do. Dark
Speaker 1: could be a W and Elevation could be a Ring
Speaker 1: of Honor. Or you just keep Dark in Elevation the
Speaker 1: way they are, but called them a W slash ro
Speaker 1: o h Dark in Elevation, and you have Ring of
Speaker 1: Honor matches, and you have a W matches on Dark
Speaker 1: in Elevation. Get those guys some time in the ring.
Speaker 1: If people want to see some Ring of Honor, they
Speaker 1: can watch it on Dark and Elevation. If they don't,
Speaker 1: they don't have to, but like that will give them
Speaker 1: something to do where you're already running the event anyway,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna risk losing money. And then once you
Speaker 1: know you can do house shows and out shows make
Speaker 1: financial sense. They don't even make financial sense for a
Speaker 1: W right now. So no, no, no ring of honor,
Speaker 1: house shows, no. I mean they'd be better off doing
Speaker 1: things like sending people to the Monster Factory, you know,
Speaker 1: or or training centers around where those guys can get
Speaker 1: work and also have seminars on that weekend and do
Speaker 1: things that way to get them more ring time, or
Speaker 1: to do this that in the third I mean to
Speaker 1: work with somebody else, I mean, otherwise that that's it's
Speaker 1: insanity to run house shows you have who know, he
Speaker 1: hasn't made any local sponsor. I mean there's a lot
Speaker 1: that goes into trying to get this thing off the
Speaker 1: ground and running house shows, you know, and just being
Speaker 1: big and being able to say I can rent that building.
Speaker 1: You know, you can you that, But you know there's
Speaker 1: more to it than that. What's gonna be also interesting
Speaker 1: is a lot of people talked about and I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was gonna matter because again, the people I
Speaker 1: thought were going to order this pay per view will
Speaker 1: But next month, you know, with a a R O
Speaker 1: H pay per view, you know, are people going to
Speaker 1: want to spend fourty or fifty bucks on that? How's
Speaker 1: that going to be priced? Because I don't know if
Speaker 1: they've already advertised that or anything, but again, you know,
Speaker 1: can you get eyes back on Ring of Honor and
Speaker 1: make it something where people want to spend money and
Speaker 1: spend the time in an area that's so crowded. And
Speaker 1: it is noted here that they have had pure title
Speaker 1: defenses on Dark. They've had Mercedes Martinez and the women's
Speaker 1: title on Dark. So they are doing it. Uh, these
Speaker 1: are I mean they have somewhat of a roster, so
Speaker 1: I think that they have storylines. You know, obviously the
Speaker 1: Sottenham Singh Samoa Joe deal being you know the top
Speaker 1: of that heap. So and you know Brian Cage is
Speaker 1: Brian Cage. You know, he's technically still signed. He's over there.
Speaker 1: They have people that are tabbed that they want to use.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how Tony has got the time
Speaker 1: to come up with plans. I don't know. Maybe again,
Speaker 1: maybe that's it. And I don't know Samoa Joe and
Speaker 1: Jay Leeth. Well, there's so many great brains that are there,
Speaker 1: Sanjay Dutt, it will be interesting with the Chris Daniels.
Speaker 1: There's so many guys. Again, we talked about the experience
Speaker 1: level w W there's not enough guys being built up
Speaker 1: to be in these positions. This is a great chance
Speaker 1: for guys to learn corporate positions and how to learn
Speaker 1: and run a wrestling company. Because Tony Khan you don't
Speaker 1: have the time to do it. Delegated out and get
Speaker 1: other wrestling people to do this. Let them learn from
Speaker 1: their mistakes. Let it go back in a moment or
Speaker 1: Wrestling Observer Alive back on the show. Brian Albert is
Speaker 1: here Wrestling Observer Live mixumburviv. Also Wrestling Observer dot Com
Speaker 1: if you're a subscriber, or Wrestling Observer dot Com. Brian
Speaker 1: Vinny show last night, Wrestling Observer Radio all talking about
Speaker 1: Forbidden Door. I'll be back tonight with Dave talking about
Speaker 1: the New York Magazine article with Vince McMahon. Will get
Speaker 1: the history of that on the Observer Radio show tonight
Speaker 1: and also talk about fallout from Forbidden Door and Raw,
Speaker 1: which is the return of John Cena to celebrated is
Speaker 1: twenty year anniversary with w w E, which I presume
Speaker 1: is going to lead to a John Cina match at Ummerslam,
Speaker 1: likely against theory. You've got the money in the bank,
Speaker 1: Go home show. Kevin Owens versus Elias or Ezekiel or
Speaker 1: Edwin or whatever the last name he was. And I
Speaker 1: think the winner of that is in money in the
Speaker 1: bank or something like that. There's some sort of step
Speaker 1: and uh yeah. So that's that's rob for tonight everybody,
Speaker 1: And then tomorrow we'll have a land storm on nearly
Speaker 1: at ten thirty a m. Pacific one thirty Eastern, so
Speaker 1: an earlier start time tomorrow, and then Old Mike is
Speaker 1: going to be solo on Wednesday, giving you two days notice.
Speaker 1: Mike solo on Wednesday, because I know you love talking
Speaker 1: about n x T two point oh here on this program.
Speaker 1: Is that my punishment for cursing? Well, Dom did ask
Speaker 1: me if I could go home Wednesday so that you
Speaker 1: could do that report, but I wouldn't call it a punishment.
Speaker 1: Dom's not even gonna be here Wednesday, tom Are you
Speaker 1: where's day going to be in? Mm hmm? Yeah? Are
Speaker 1: you going to be in on Wednesday? Yeah, he says,
Speaker 1: I'm here. Okay, good. I'm going to make sure that
Speaker 1: the lines are open to make you have to work harder.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Well, no, wonder you're
Speaker 1: punished regularly. Hey 'r out a time. Everybody want to think.
Speaker 1: Mike has always called us and listeners, everybody, the studio,
Speaker 1: the FCC dom, Darren a Little, good friends of Byline,
Speaker 1: Twitch homies, Top Tears. We'll talk to you next time,
Speaker 1: Wrestling Observer Live. You have been listening to the Wrestling
Speaker 1: Observer Daily podcast on the eight Side Network