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Speaker 1: How does a beautiful and brilliant young mom end up bludgeoned, dead,

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Speaker 1: dragged in the basement for her final hours, languishing there

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Speaker 1: for days on and before anybody figures out mommy's missing.

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Speaker 1: Mommy's not just missing, mommy is dead. I wish you

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Speaker 1: could see this woman. She's just beautiful, so full of life.

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Speaker 1: Why did this woman end up dead? Bludgeoned, dying in

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Speaker 1: the basement, left there for days on end. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this. If you listen to Mary Susan Barrett's friends,

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Speaker 1: they'll tell you about a woman who can turn her

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Speaker 1: hand at almost anything. Barrett born in Liville, Kentucky, but

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Speaker 1: raised in Indiana. Barrett has an associate degree in pastry

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Speaker 1: chef and a master's degree in business administration. She's also

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Speaker 1: a mom. Barrett rounds out her resume with service in

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Speaker 1: the US Air Force, including three tours of duty in

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Speaker 1: a Rock and Afghanistan. According to her Facebook profile, Mary

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Speaker 1: Mary's Daniel Barrett in May the couple buzz and historical

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Speaker 1: colonial home, which Mary Barrett has been restoring during the

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Speaker 1: COVID crisis. Outside the home, Barrett works as a secretary

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Speaker 1: for her hometown community Plymouth Borough. Wow, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: to take in. You're hearing from our friends at crime

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Speaker 1: online dot com. Let me understand this. A pastry chef,

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Speaker 1: an MBA, a veteran like on HGTV, she restores homes,

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Speaker 1: works as a secretary for the community, and top it

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Speaker 1: all off, she's a mom. It almost sounds too good

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Speaker 1: to be true. ME an all star panel to break

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Speaker 1: it down and put it back together again. First of all.

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Speaker 1: Bob Kalinowski, reporter with the Citizen's Voice in wilkes Berry,

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Speaker 1: Luzerne County. There in Pennsylvania, and you can find him

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Speaker 1: at Bob Underscore Cow or Twitter at cv Bob Cow.

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Speaker 1: Also with me, the Chief of Family Violence Unit, Cameron

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Speaker 1: County District Attorney's Office in Texas. Jason Compo joining us.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state

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Speaker 1: of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed dot com.

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensic expert, Lecturer, University Florida and host Of've

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Speaker 1: Shattered Souls podcast. Doctor W. Joffe ellis licensed psychologist, mental

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Speaker 1: health counselor at Junct Professor Columbia and author of Rational

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Speaker 1: Emotive Behavior Therapy Now and in second edition special guests

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Speaker 1: Joining me Angela Sparaz, a lead prosecutor, the chief of

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Speaker 1: the Major Crimes Division there in Lazerne County. You know,

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Speaker 1: this case is almost too much to take in. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever wonder to you, Angela, who it's actually working

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Speaker 1: this case? And understand there are going to be questions

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Speaker 1: I put to Angela that she may not be able

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Speaker 1: to answer to preserve the integrity of this ongoing investigation. Angela,

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Speaker 1: do you ever wonder when you're looking at your caselow,

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Speaker 1: because I sure did, Why is it so often it's

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Speaker 1: the great people they get murdered and violence befalls in Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: this is one of, as you said, many cases when

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Speaker 1: we look at domestic violence cases, it really highlights to

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Speaker 1: us the vulnerability that everyday citizens have. You know, you

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Speaker 1: talk about people who deal drugs and we all kind

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Speaker 1: of think there's an inherent danger there. But Mary Barrett

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Speaker 1: was in her home, she was with someone that she trusted,

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Speaker 1: and it definitely shakes a prosecutor to say, there's things

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Speaker 1: that you can't give anyone a list, don't go here,

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Speaker 1: don't go there. She was living her life in her home.

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Speaker 1: You know, did Jason Compo, Chief of the Family Violence

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Speaker 1: Unit joining us out of Texas. You actually present at

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Speaker 1: the Crimes Against Women's conference. You know, I'm just looking

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Speaker 1: at this woman's let me just say her resume. Pastry

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Speaker 1: chef an MBA, a veteran, a war veteran. Did you

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Speaker 1: see how many tours of duty this woman did? She

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Speaker 1: went to Afghanistan? He wrought three tours for Pete's sake.

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Speaker 1: She's restoring a historic colonial home. Like on you ever

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Speaker 1: seen HGTV. That thing is always running in my mom's room.

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Speaker 1: They're always restoring something, and she's a mom for Pete's sake?

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Speaker 1: Why is it? Have you noticed all these wonderful women

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Speaker 1: have violence befall them? Why is always the good people?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely correct? Unfortunately, violence can strike anybody at any place.

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Speaker 1: We've learned in many of the cases that I've worked,

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Speaker 1: it's been teachers and just everyday citizens and sometimes professionals.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to talk about what's happening or what's

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Speaker 1: going on behind closed doors, maybe to keep it hidden

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Speaker 1: a little bit more than the people that we see

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Speaker 1: on our regular day to day cases. Yeah, that's really interesting,

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Speaker 1: And Bob Kalanowski, I'll be with you in just one second.

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Speaker 1: But this is quite a phenomena because straight to you,

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Speaker 1: doctor Debbie Joffe ellis joining me Edguhn Professor Columbia. I

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Speaker 1: spoke with a mom many times about the murder off

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Speaker 1: her little boy, Chucky Mark, and she has said that

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Speaker 1: people actually act like she's a bad mom, that somehow

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Speaker 1: there's a stigma attached to murder victims and murder victims families.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, I think it's true. Well, it

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Speaker 1: can't be true, and it's a great pity. It's really

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Speaker 1: distorted thinking because the fact of the matter is, when

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Speaker 1: there are such a pulling crimes, it's got everything to

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Speaker 1: do with the dysfunctionality or psychopathy of the perpetrator and

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Speaker 1: much less to do with the victim. Guys, we are

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Speaker 1: talking about a gorgeous young mom and she's like I

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Speaker 1: guess Mary Poppins and somebody at HGTV and Martha Stewart

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Speaker 1: all rolled in together to make this sparkling personality her

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Speaker 1: life cut short. You just heard from our friends at

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Speaker 1: crime online dot com. Nowison to this, A neighbor who

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Speaker 1: is not comfortable speaking with Newswatch sixteen on camera tells

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Speaker 1: us that Mary had a background in the military, and

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Speaker 1: kept to a certain schedule. Every morning when he would

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Speaker 1: walk to get his coffee, he'd pass by this window

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Speaker 1: and see her drawing back the curtains to expose the

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Speaker 1: stained glass into the home. He thought something was wrong

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Speaker 1: when that didn't happen, And over the weekend, Core Paper

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Speaker 1: says she was also as a fourteen year old child

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Speaker 1: from a previous marriage. So how does this awesome mom

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Speaker 1: end up dead in the basement? Big question. You were

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Speaker 1: just hearing our friend Chelsea shrub at WNEP, ABC sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and we're learning more and more and more and what

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Speaker 1: you just heard, and let me go to special Guests

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Speaker 1: joining us Angela sparraza lead prosecutor in Lazorne County. That's

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Speaker 1: what is called routine evidence, and it's anything but routine.

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Speaker 1: What it really is is evidence of someone's habits. And

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Speaker 1: you will find very often people do not deviate from habits.

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Speaker 1: For instance, this guy, the neighbor, says something was wrong

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Speaker 1: because she has these beautiful stained glass windows and every

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Speaker 1: morning she would open them up to let the light

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Speaker 1: come in through the stained glass windows. And when this

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Speaker 1: guy walks by with his dog, he says, wow, that's weird.

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Speaker 1: She don't only has her curtains open by this time.

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Speaker 1: It's like clot work, and you can actually introduce that

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Speaker 1: at trial. For instance, here's an example. Remember in the J.

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Speaker 1: Simpson double murder case, neighbors heard, as they said, as

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Speaker 1: they said, a plaintive, well, a plaintive howl from the

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Speaker 1: dog at a certain time, and they had never heard

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Speaker 1: that from the dog. I think the dog's name was Akita.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe I remember that, and that prosecutors believe

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Speaker 1: started a timeline of a double murder. Now, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't think you can set a clot by

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Speaker 1: a dog howling or windows being opened at a certain

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Speaker 1: time every morning. But you know what, Angela, you can

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Speaker 1: absolutely and we look to, like you said, neighbors, people

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Speaker 1: that interact with people on a regular basis some times,

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Speaker 1: you know, as a prosecutor, we're going back and recreating

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Speaker 1: habits and finding those habits and then looking to see

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Speaker 1: where they fall off or where they deviate. And we

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Speaker 1: rely on the people that are in someone's everyday life

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Speaker 1: to help us create those habits. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the death, brutal bludgeoning death, and

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Speaker 1: I believe stabbing as well of a gorgeous young mom.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I had the twins and they were

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Speaker 1: a little bitty babies, I thought, they need me so much,

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Speaker 1: They're so defenseless. Then they got to be toddlers and

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Speaker 1: I was forever making sure they didn't hurt themselves or

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Speaker 1: fall down the stairs or get kidnapped at a park.

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Speaker 1: Then they got to school, which is a whole another

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Speaker 1: mindfield for them to walk through. I felt like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: they need me so much. I've got to be there

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Speaker 1: for them. Now. They just turned thirteen, and let me

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Speaker 1: tell you, I feel like they need parents now more

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Speaker 1: than ever. Is there ever really a time in your

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Speaker 1: child's life that they don't need you, even after they

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Speaker 1: grow up? Just thinking about this fourteen year old child

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Speaker 1: left behind when Mary Susan Barrett is bludgeoned dead. And

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Speaker 1: I'm also curious how you have a fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: daughter and the daughter doesn't notice Mommy's not there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when I wait the children up in the morning, that's

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Speaker 1: the first thing they see is mommy. Then I start blaring,

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Speaker 1: oh what a beautiful morning on Alexa, and that pretty

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Speaker 1: much wakes up the old one with Gordon McRae from Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: They'll probably be hearing that in their heads from years

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Speaker 1: to come. But how does this woman just drop off

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Speaker 1: the map for days on end with me? What an

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Speaker 1: all star panel door Debbie Joffe, Elis, Karen Smith, doctor

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Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, Jason Compo, Bob Kalanowski. But to you, Angela Sparazo,

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Speaker 1: Chief and the Major Crime's Division in Luzerne County, where's

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Speaker 1: the daughter? Where's the fourteen year old girl? When mommy's

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Speaker 1: bleeding out in the basement. When we talk about before

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Speaker 1: we talked about routines, we in our investigation find out

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Speaker 1: that a text message is sent to the daughter's father

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Speaker 1: saying that there's issues with the dog. He's sick, and

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Speaker 1: that changes the drop off date. Okay, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: I'm learning about a whole knee wrinkle in this investigation.

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Speaker 1: So there's the daughter is from a previous relationship and

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Speaker 1: the first thing we all know is to rule out

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Speaker 1: the man in your life. So is that a previous

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Speaker 1: husband or boyfriend? Angela, that's a previous husband and that

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Speaker 1: is the father of her daughter. Hold on to you,

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Speaker 1: Jason Compo, Chief of the Family Violence Unit, Cameron only

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Speaker 1: DA's office in Texas. When I start analyzing a case,

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Speaker 1: I'm always accused of being a man hater. That's not true.

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Speaker 1: I love my husband very much and have a wonderful son.

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Speaker 1: I don't hate them. I love them. But it's just

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Speaker 1: pure statistics. You have to look at the men in

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Speaker 1: a woman's life first. Why is that? That's absolutely correct?

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Speaker 1: The people who are closest to the victim are generally

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Speaker 1: the ones who are the most They have the most

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Speaker 1: time to be with the victim or to keep the

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Speaker 1: victim away from other people, and they're the ones who

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Speaker 1: can cover up the tracks when they go missing, so

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Speaker 1: they're always the prime candidate in the beginning of the investigation.

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Speaker 1: To doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire

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Speaker 1: state of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, I don't know if you've ever been asked this,

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Speaker 1: but about how many autopsies have you performed in your career? Well?

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Speaker 1: I don't keep count of them exactly, but it's probably

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of five thousand or maybe six thousand,

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Speaker 1: somewhere in that rain. I know what you mean when

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Speaker 1: people ask me how many cases have you handled? I

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Speaker 1: have to go back and figure out. Well, the grand

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Speaker 1: jury in Fulton County, inner City Atlanta and died about

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty cases a week, divided by say

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Speaker 1: ten courts, each prosecutor running a courtroom. We get their

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Speaker 1: share by the next week, in the next week than

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Speaker 1: the next week. I mean, that's a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: a month times twelve times ten years. That's thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of cases you had to resolve one way or

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Speaker 1: the other. It's hard to but five thousand cases, Okay, anecdotally,

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Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. Don't get all bobbed down. How you haven't

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Speaker 1: kept a record and you don't really know. Do you

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Speaker 1: see more dead women or more dead men? Well, it

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Speaker 1: depends on the situation, but generally in my practice is

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Speaker 1: more dead men because they're violent. Sorry, man, I had

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Speaker 1: to put it out there like that, but it's true. Statistically, Well,

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Speaker 1: they also take a lot of a lot more risk

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Speaker 1: taking behaviors, higher risk taking behaviors, and that includes chemicals

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Speaker 1: and drugs and things like that, you know, so driving fast, etc. That.

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Speaker 1: So it's a very big dent in their population. Pulling

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Speaker 1: the triggers on guns, stabbing each other, getting into fights

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Speaker 1: and hitting each other with blunt objects. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: include that too, Gallagher. This is not about meeting down

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Speaker 1: Park Avenue in Manhattan. This is about violent crime. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They do take a lot of risk taking behaviors and

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Speaker 1: they do violently. On risk taking, they kill each other. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a risk of being caught and then you go

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Speaker 1: to jail for a long time. We know that you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go down with a ship, aren't you. Okay? You

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Speaker 1: know what? I respect that to you. Karen Smith for expert.

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Speaker 1: Can we just put it out there there may be

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Speaker 1: more men that actually are ending up on the autopsy

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Speaker 1: table because of violence. But when you look at statistics,

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Speaker 1: I remember a stunning statistic that the number one cause

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Speaker 1: of death and like pregnant women, I couldn't believe it

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Speaker 1: until I found out its New England Journal Medicine is homicide.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that when that statistic came out. It's true.

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Speaker 1: I believe it. I do. I've been there, I've seen it,

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Speaker 1: and you know, when you have statistics like that, I

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Speaker 1: think once you have somebody down at the medical Examiner's office,

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Speaker 1: it's a matter of looking at you know, what was

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Speaker 1: the cause and manner of death? Between each person. You know,

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Speaker 1: there may be an overdose versus a gunshot. And it

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Speaker 1: does seem it did in my career, seem like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the more heavy violence, the gunshots especially were

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Speaker 1: men where women. There was lunforced trauma, there were stabbing,

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Speaker 1: there was strangulation especially, That's my experience. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about this woman and I've gotten totally down the

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Speaker 1: arden path on this. You know who went off out

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Speaker 1: in the weeds. Oh it was me. Let me circle

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Speaker 1: back to Angela Sparazzo, lead prosecutor. A text sent coincidentally

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Speaker 1: that weekend when there's supposed to be a trade off

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Speaker 1: of the fourteen year old teen girl. Yes, that text

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Speaker 1: was sent to her ex husband. So whoever killed Mary

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Speaker 1: Barrett knew, or I would argue, knew that the daughter

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Speaker 1: was going to be gone for a period of days.

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Speaker 1: Is that true? Yes, and knew those routines we had

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Speaker 1: talked about before, those routines that prosecutors look for. This

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Speaker 1: is a person that absolutely knew Mary Barrett's routines, anew

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Speaker 1: her routines and think about it, knew how to access

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Speaker 1: her phone. I would argue and send a fake text message,

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Speaker 1: you know, to Bob Kalanowski, reporter with a Citizens Voice

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Speaker 1: in Wilkes Barry Dan in Pennsylvania. Where was the daughter

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Speaker 1: As far as geographically when the mom was murdered, the

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Speaker 1: daughter was in I believe in a town about twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five minutes away, at her at her father's house,

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Speaker 1: So it's about twenty twenty five minutes away. And were

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Speaker 1: rural area then where Mary lives, So between the daughter

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Speaker 1: and the bio dad and they would be able to

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Speaker 1: eliby each other, you would think as police try to

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Speaker 1: figure out what happened to Mary Barrett, at first nobody

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Speaker 1: even realizes she's gone. This text message seemingly explaining her

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Speaker 1: absence to Angela Sparaza, lead prosecutor there in Lauzerne County

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Speaker 1: District Attorney's office. Did the daughter not talk to mom

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Speaker 1: every day or when she went to go visit bio dad.

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Speaker 1: She didn't talk to mom. When we talk about when

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Speaker 1: the crime occurred to when it's found out, it's a

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Speaker 1: period of time where she was with dad, and this

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Speaker 1: text message seemed to explain that they were dealing with

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Speaker 1: a sick dog, So it didn't seem out of the

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Speaker 1: ordinary that she didn't have contact on that day. Oh,

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Speaker 1: what was supposed to be wrong with the dog? May

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Speaker 1: I ask? Just old? It would preclude the daughter from

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Speaker 1: coming home. Just that the dog was old and they

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Speaker 1: thought he might pass away and they didn't want the

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Speaker 1: daughter to be there for that. And again this message

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Speaker 1: came from Mary Barrett's phone, So I think it could

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Speaker 1: be argued that the daughter thought she did have contact

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Speaker 1: with mom. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, how does

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Speaker 1: a gorgeous young mom, a pastry chef with an NBA

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Speaker 1: who did three tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: end up dead, bleeding out in the basement. As cops

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Speaker 1: start looking for answer, they get a bomb. Shall take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friend, Chelsea Strubb wnp ABC sixteen.

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Speaker 1: A bouquet of red roses have been placed outside this

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Speaker 1: home on Gaylord Avenue in Plymouth. The roses are for

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Speaker 1: Mary Barrett, the woman police found dead inside the home

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Speaker 1: on Monday night after her husband, forty year old Daniel Barrett,

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Speaker 1: went to police and confessed that he killed his wife.

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Speaker 1: On Saturday went to police and confessed that he killed

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Speaker 1: his wife straight out to investigative reporter of Bob Kalanowski

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Speaker 1: with a citizen's voice in Wilkes, Barry, Bob Kalanowski, that's

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Speaker 1: something you don't normally see for so much of waltz

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Speaker 1: into the police station and announced they killed their wife.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, every veteran detective I've talked to you said,

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Speaker 1: that's very extremely rareant and it doesn't happen. And obviously

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Speaker 1: he was in a huge surprise to the Plymouth Borough

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Speaker 1: police station where the man just walks in and so

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Speaker 1: he killed his wife. She's dead in the basement at home.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've heard reports Bob Kalanowski that he was

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Speaker 1: actually excited when he told his story. Almost gleeful. Is

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Speaker 1: that true. That's the words used in the affidavit. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know the context of that, but it's it

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Speaker 1: seemed like excited, nervous, a little bit of a little

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Speaker 1: bit of both. I think to your daughter, Debbie Juffy

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Speaker 1: Ellis psychologist and professor Columbia, I know you just heard

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Speaker 1: Bob Kalanowski with a citizen's voice, And what's Barry, What

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Speaker 1: could explain an almost giddy demeanor when the dad, the

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Speaker 1: husband comes in and says, yes, she's dead and I

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Speaker 1: did it him? Well, if we rule being under the

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Speaker 1: influence of anything out of the question. It could be

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Speaker 1: a kind of dissociation from reality, from the severity of

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Speaker 1: what he had done or what had just happened. Some

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Speaker 1: people might hypothesize. I don't necessarily agree that there could

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Speaker 1: be remorse. I'm not sure about that. Maybe he thought

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Speaker 1: handing himself in might have less detrimental outcome than hiding,

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Speaker 1: being chased, etc. So he chose the path of fewer

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Speaker 1: complications for him. It's hard to know, but there's some

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Speaker 1: possibilities to Karen Smith, forensic expert, lecturer or University of Florida, Karen,

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Speaker 1: I don't recall ever seeing a definite giddy when they confessed. Now,

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Speaker 1: giddy is a that's a really strong word. I have

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Speaker 1: been them eventually remorseful. I have been them very quiet,

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Speaker 1: very sullen. They know what's coming, and most of the time,

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Speaker 1: at least the ones that I've seen, they threatened to

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Speaker 1: commit suicide and never carried through with it because they're cowards.

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Speaker 1: But that's been my experiences that they're not giddy, they're

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Speaker 1: sullen and they know what's coming to him. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if it was because he was proud that he murdered her,

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Speaker 1: that he took the place of the judge, the jury,

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Speaker 1: and the executioner somehow, that she deserved it. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to Chelsea's shoved at any PABC sixteen. Barrett told

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Speaker 1: police in Plymouth that it all started with an argument

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Speaker 1: where Barrett accused his wife of cheating on him after

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Speaker 1: she admitted to spending time with another man. Barrett said

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Speaker 1: he punched her and knocked her to the ground near

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Speaker 1: the fireplace in the home. Then, Barrett told police he

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Speaker 1: blacked out. When he came to, he was holding fireplace

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Speaker 1: tongs over his head and was beating her with them.

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Speaker 1: Barrett said he continued to beat her with those tongs

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Speaker 1: and a fire poker before getting a knife and stab

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Speaker 1: her in the back. Then he dragged her body into

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Speaker 1: the basement, blacked out, Wow, that was convenient that he

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Speaker 1: remembers accusing her of cheating, punching her in the face.

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Speaker 1: Then he blacks out and wakes up with a weapon

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Speaker 1: raised over his head. But after he comes to, he

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Speaker 1: continues beating her until she's dead, is dragging her down

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Speaker 1: to the basement to die or post a mortem. Blacked

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Speaker 1: out at the moment of truth, Bob Kalanowski reporter with

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Speaker 1: Citizens Voice Walkes Barry. Is that correct? Does he conveniently

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Speaker 1: black out at the moment of the killing and then

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Speaker 1: come to Oh, that's what he told the investigators, that

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Speaker 1: he blacked out, And I don't know if that's he's

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Speaker 1: already started trying to make his defense for trial, including

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Speaker 1: using the alleged cheating excuse as well. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if he immediately started planning his defense at trial. But

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Speaker 1: that's what he said, blacked out, but then he confesses

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Speaker 1: to continuing the assault afterwards to finish the job allegedly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the blackout defense is not going to really work if

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Speaker 1: once you come to, you continue the murder. I got

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Speaker 1: a question about the timing to Bob Kalanowski's Citizen's Voice.

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Speaker 1: When was it. Do we know or think we know

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Speaker 1: when the fake text was sent to the daughter as

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Speaker 1: it relates to the murder, So it looks like the

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Speaker 1: fake the prime I believe happened on a Friday, and

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Speaker 1: the fake text happened on a Saturday morning, or the

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Speaker 1: fake text happen on a Saturday morning and then he

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Speaker 1: confessed on a Monday, according to the police. Okay, according

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Speaker 1: to police Angelo Sparrazza, lead prosecutor. The murder happens on Friday,

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Speaker 1: the text is on Saturday, and the confession is later,

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Speaker 1: possibly on Monday. Do I have that timing correct? We're

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Speaker 1: one day off, guys. It's Saturday that the crime happens,

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Speaker 1: it's Sunday morning that the text happens, and that it's

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Speaker 1: Monday around five o'clock that he comes to the police station.

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Speaker 1: Either way to Jason Campo joining us from Cameron County, Texas.

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Speaker 1: Either way, the States can have a field day with

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Speaker 1: that because either he said the text before the murder,

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Speaker 1: which means he was planning it and there's all your

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Speaker 1: mentrea mal intent, or he commits the murder then he

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Speaker 1: does the text to cover his tracks, indicating he knew

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Speaker 1: what he did was wrong, which destroys an insanity defense

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Speaker 1: the l McNaughton rule. Did you know right for wrong

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Speaker 1: at the time of the incident? Agree or disagree? Jason Campo,

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Speaker 1: That's absolutely correct. He definitely, in my opinion, knew right

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Speaker 1: from wrong. He was covering his tracks with the text message,

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Speaker 1: and I believe that when he confessed to the police,

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Speaker 1: he knew that he was out of options and he

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to manipulate this situation anymore.

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Speaker 1: And so what he would do is go turn himself

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Speaker 1: in manipulate to the police the confession so that he

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Speaker 1: can make sure that he can say, oh, well, she

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Speaker 1: was cheating on me. That's what the argument was about,

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Speaker 1: because that's what these types of defendants do. They try

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Speaker 1: to manipulate the entire situation from beginning to end. You know,

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Speaker 1: speaking of the allegic confession to Angela Sparaza, lead prosecutor

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Speaker 1: or there in Lazerne County, I'm curious about his demeanor.

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Speaker 1: Back to the giddy aspect according to the police, which

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Speaker 1: a juri is going to see this in affidavit form,

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Speaker 1: And what's the place an officer takes a stand. Was

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Speaker 1: he crime? Did he exhibit remorse? There were no reports,

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Speaker 1: nor do we have any reports from police that this

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Speaker 1: isn't a man who comes in crying, begging for help

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Speaker 1: or calling for aid. He comes in and reports what

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Speaker 1: he did. At no point is he in sollible or

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Speaker 1: is he crying? You won't see that in any affidavit

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Speaker 1: or police report. Was there ever a nine on one

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Speaker 1: call or any attempt to help her? We talked about

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Speaker 1: him being the one in control for two days, he

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Speaker 1: decided what would happen. And there's no nine one one

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Speaker 1: call from Daniel Barrett, just the neighbor going behind saying

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Speaker 1: that the curtains were closed. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Mary Susan Barrett is dead, leaving behind a fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old girl without a mommy, just as she faces some

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Speaker 1: of the rockiest roads she will have in her life,

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Speaker 1: going through peaberty in high school and start forging a

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Speaker 1: life without her mother. Take a listen to this. The

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Speaker 1: criminal complaint goes on saying heard noises coming from Mary

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Speaker 1: after washing his face, so he allegedly dragged her to

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Speaker 1: the basement where she later died. My neighborhood, it's a

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Speaker 1: nice neighborhood. We never have any problems here. According to

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Speaker 1: court documents, Daniel Barrett had researched attorneys and ways to

425
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: commit suicide prior to making contact with police. I'm just

426
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: very shocked by the whole thing. Researched attorneys and had

427
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: to commit suicide, but didn't do it before calling police,

428
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, Karen Smith, forensic expert, host of Shattered Souls podcasts.

429
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: That's just what you said earlier. They threatened suicide but

430
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: instead end up killing their wife. That's right exactly, because

431
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: they're coward. They don't have the mental capacity to do

432
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: it themselves, so they turned themselves into the police and

433
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: then fabricate the story of Oi blacked out. I don't

434
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: buy it. I didn't buy it when I was on

435
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: the street. I don't buy it now. He's a coward.

436
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: That's the end of the file. You know, you were

437
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at Fox fifty six, Jack Rhinhart.

438
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: But there's another there's another wrinkle to this story, as

439
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: far as it fits goes. Did you hear this, doctor

440
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: Debbie Joffe ellis that he says he confronted her about

441
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: cheating and that she admitted she spent time with another man.

442
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if he has now decided he's going to

443
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: try to argue heat of passion to reduce this down

444
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: to a manslaughter if he's doing research. I wonder if

445
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: he researched that too, that he found out his wife

446
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: was cheating. I don't know if that's true or not,

447
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: then in his anger killed her to lesson intent. Get it, Yeah,

448
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: I get it. Though it sounds like a thing that

449
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: he could contemplate saying, I mean, it seems to me

450
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: that at the core of his action certainly was rage

451
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: and whether there's a difference between right and wrong and

452
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: legal and illegal. Whilst he probably knew what he did

453
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: was a crime that could get him imprisoned, he possibly

454
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: thought that he was that's defied, coming from this dysfunctional

455
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: state of rage, that she did what a woman shouldn't

456
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: do and betrayed him. And on one level, he probably thought,

457
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: in his idea of what a man should do, that

458
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: you did the right thing to this evil, cheating woman,

459
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: you know the way you said that. I could see

460
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: his mind working that way. Of course, this state is

461
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: never required to prove the motive, but as a priactical matter,

462
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: the jury wants to hear the motive so the crime

463
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: makes sense to them, although no murder ever makes sense.

464
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: But take a listen to Nicole Rodgers w b r

465
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: E eyewitness News like no way, like not Mary. And

466
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: it's crazy because I was just thinking about her over

467
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: the weekend, Like I send her a Christmas card this year. Right,

468
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: Jim Byers was a friend of Mary's. He put flowers

469
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: on her doorstep, remembering their fond memories is very sweet.

470
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: The way that she would talk and just very caring

471
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: and like she would like checking out. Like I said

472
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: with my on pass, she would check in on me,

473
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: see I was doing, to ask if you wanted to

474
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: go off for coffee or something like that. So she

475
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: was always looking to make people smile. Police say Daniel

476
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: went to the Plymouth Borough Police Department and told them

477
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: he killed his wife. The criminal report says he was

478
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: quote emotional and excited end quote. Just before eight Monday night,

479
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: officers executed a search warrant and found Mary at the

480
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: end of a bloody trail. The autopsy performed today determined

481
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: Mary's cause of death to be from blunt force trauma

482
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: and the manner of death was homicide. Is this a

483
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: trump up allegation that she cheated? Is he hoping that

484
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: will lessen the offantas he hoping one jarr might agree

485
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: she deserved to be murdered. Take a listen to our

486
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: seven our friends at Fox fifty six. According to the

487
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: police criminal complaint, Daniel Barrett appeared emotional when he walked

488
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: into police headquarters, Barrett allegedly admitting he accused his wife

489
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: of cheating on him. Police say Barrett claimed his wife

490
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: then said she time with another man. That's when investigators

491
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: say he told them he punched her in the face,

492
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: knocking her down near a fireplace. Court papers say he

493
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: then told police he repeatedly beat her with fire tongues

494
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: and a fire poker before eventually stabbing her multiple times

495
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: with a knife. I don't think she's a type of

496
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: person that was going out and approaching men, you know,

497
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: behind her husband's back. You know, this just strikes me

498
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,959
Speaker 1: as so wrong to Angelo's bizarre. A lead prosecutor there

499
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: in Lazerne County that this woman in death, this mother

500
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: is really being tried as to whether or not she

501
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: had an affair. So what I mean, I'm not the

502
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: church Lady's none of my business. That is a moral

503
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: is she? Why is it that so many people are focused, well,

504
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: did she have an affair? Doesn't matter. You've done a

505
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: great job of outlining what an amazing woman Mary was,

506
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: and her family even mentioned to us that Mary was

507
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: even as far as to be an organ donor. She

508
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: was worried about how she can give back to the

509
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: world even when she wasn't here. So the fact that

510
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: mister Barrett comes in with this very general allegation that

511
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: the information is a man, that's the information he gives.

512
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: That sounds pretty vague to me. I don't know that

513
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: it's even true. I think that's a big question on

514
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: everyone's mind. But it's interesting how she's going to get

515
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 1: tried reputation wise as to whether she had an affair

516
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: when the issue is him killing her. So let's make

517
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: that the issue to doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner

518
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: for the entire state of Florida. You can find it

519
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: at pathcaremad dot com. Let's talk about the mode of murder.

520
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: I hear stabbing, I hear beating with a fire poker,

521
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: I hear beating with a fire tongue, punching, dragging. How

522
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: do you make sense of the succession of the murder

523
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: when you do this autopsy? Well, typically, you know, we

524
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: find that if a person is killed by a stranger

525
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: or somebody unfamiliar to them, there's usually one mode of assault.

526
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: It's usually a stabbing only, or it's usually a shooting only.

527
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: You know, to have a stabbing and bludgeoning and different

528
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: modes of attack is quite unusual, and in my experience,

529
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: it often leads to the person of those two people

530
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: being very familiar with each other, and the person who

531
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: is doing the assaulting is using objects that are convenient

532
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: to him that just happen to be nearby. How do

533
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: you figure out or can you the succession? Was she

534
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: punched first? Was she then stabbed with a knife? Then

535
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: the poker? Then the tongs? Oh? Can you tell that?

536
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: And can you fit the object be at poker or

537
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: tongs or fist or knife? Can you match it back

538
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: to the wounds on the body? And how? Oh? Absolutely

539
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: if the person, if the person who is being attacked

540
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: is alive and they are saying punched, then underneath that

541
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: injury there would be heavy bleeding because the heart is

542
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: still pumping and it's pumping blood into that area. We

543
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: could also look at the wound and match it up

544
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: to knuckles or fingers, you know that would have been

545
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: used in the assault. The same with the other objects.

546
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: For instance, a fire poker would definitely leave an impression,

547
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: a very unique impression on the body. And if it

548
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: is used in the attack and there is bleeding and

549
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: hemorrhage underneath that wound, then we could assume that the

550
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: person was alive or they had a heartbeat when that

551
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: wound occurred if there is no bleeding under it, if

552
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: it's just a stab wound with no bleeding around it,

553
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: there is no heartbeat present in the victim, and that

554
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: would indicate to us that the person was already deceased.

555
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: This is a post mortem type wound, and there was

556
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: no heartbeat used to pump blood into the injured area,

557
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: So it's very easy to determine what type of weapon

558
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: was used and if the person was alive or deceased

559
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: when they were which leads me to another point. To

560
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: Angelo sparraza lead prosecutor or there in Lazerne County, I'm

561
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: wondering did he leave her to die in the basement,

562
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: just leaving her down there over a period of time,

563
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: or did she die right there near the fireplace? Based

564
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: on what Gallagher or doctor Tim Gallagher has just said,

565
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: her heart would not have been pumping blood, so there

566
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: may not have been an extensive blood trail from the

567
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: fireplace to the basement if her heart was no longer beating.

568
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: And I think it's going to matter at trial whether

569
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 1: he left her down there to die over a period

570
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: of days. And I also think it's going to matter

571
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 1: at trial that she didn't have an affair, and he's

572
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: cooked this whole thing up in order to get something.

573
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: What I can tell you is her injuries were extensive,

574
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: and at no point did he offer her aid in

575
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: that period of time. From and again, this is his narrative,

576
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: his narrative that there was a man, his narrative of

577
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: how everything went down. But even in his own narrative,

578
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 1: he never talks about rendering her aid in any way,

579
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: even if it would have been futile to Jason Compo,

580
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: chief of the Family Violence Unit, joining us out of

581
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: Cameron County, Texas way in, I definitely believe that the

582
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: heat of passion defense won't be applicable here because you

583
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: can see that he's trying to cover up his steps afterwards.

584
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 1: That's not usually the behavior of somebody who has heat

585
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 1: of passion. They usually either called nine to one one.

586
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: He went upstairs and washed his face and then heard

587
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: noises and then dragged her down to the basement. That

588
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: starts from the very beginning that he's trying to cover

589
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: it up. Not only has Mommy been murdered, now, mind's

590
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: being dragged as a mud. I've an alleged affair. Karen Smith,

591
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: You know, well, this never happens with man. When I

592
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: said male homicide victim, you don't hear this. And it's

593
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: a woman. Oh, you know, it's her fault. She's a

594
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: sex mania. She needed to die. You know, I see

595
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: it so many times. It's very disheartening, it really is,

596
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: and it's true. And you know what, Nancy, I'm so

597
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: tired of hearing it. I'm so sick of hearing these

598
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: stories about, oh, she was having an affair, she had

599
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: a boyfriend on the side. You know what, it doesn't matter.

600
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: She did not deserve this. Nobody deserved this. And frankly,

601
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to hear from the prosecutor in this

602
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: case because I cannot wait until that judication is finished

603
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: and he's put away from that. So speaking off to

604
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: Bob Kalanowski reporter, citizen's voice, and well it's Barry Bob.

605
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: What's next? Well, Nancy, first of all, I do want

606
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: to say one thing about the affair issue. And I

607
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: made a bunch of phone calls the last couple of

608
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: days because I wanted to put my credibility on line

609
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: and I asked a lot of people to know her

610
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: intimately and know this case intimately, and people that worked

611
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: with her in the community and all the community things

612
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: she did, and all the organizations she was with about

613
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: a possible affair, and everyone has told me there's that's

614
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: not her and there's no evidence of an affair. Bob.

615
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: I just if I could reach through this camera and

616
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: hug you and kiss you right now, I would, because

617
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: I just hey, isn't enough. The woman is dead and

618
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: her daughter's gonna live a life without her mother. Do

619
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: we have to have her dract through the mud too? Well?

620
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but I think she deserved that I got.

621
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: When you do do crime stories, you often get and

622
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: as a prosecutor, Angel probably would agree, you really only

623
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: a lot of times get to meet these and know

624
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: these victims only after after the crime happens to them

625
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: and after they die. So I mean I got to

626
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: know Mary Barrett only after she died, and I'm glad

627
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: I did, and I think it was it was just

628
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: a she deserved to, you know, get her name cleared

629
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: if her name needed to be cleared, and I put

630
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: my you know, I did some research to the best

631
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: I could. I am so grateful that you you told

632
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: me that, Um, what is this thing going to trial? Bob?

633
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: What do we know. I think Angela knows best, but

634
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: he recently had his preliminary hearing just on Friday, and

635
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: in the preliminary hearing here in Pennsylvania, it's basically the

636
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: local court step, the local magistrate step, and he actually

637
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: waved the hearing. So I don't know if he did

638
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: it on you know, on purpose to save the family

639
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Speaker 1: any grief. But I know some of the prosecutors and

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Speaker 1: police were thankful that they did not have to go

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Speaker 1: through a preliminary trial before against the county court level.

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Speaker 1: So now it's now it has moved to the county

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Speaker 1: court level, and Angela and her team of prosecutors, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're going to prepare the case to see if it

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Speaker 1: does go to trial. So, Bob Klenowski, do you guys

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Speaker 1: have the death penalty in Pennsylvania. We we do have

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Speaker 1: the death penalty in Pennsylvania. There's a moratorium, but there's

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Speaker 1: a moratorium. Yes, Governor Wolf has a moratorium on it.

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Speaker 1: So basically, you can kill as many people as you

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Speaker 1: want to. Prosecutors could still pursue it, but it won't

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Speaker 1: be carried out at least as now. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know that this district attorney and Angela's team would obviously

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Speaker 1: have to file motions to see if they were going

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Speaker 1: to do that. Yep, I'm intentionally not going to ask

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Speaker 1: her because I know she won't comment. We wait as

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Speaker 1: justice unfalls and prayers to this girl, this teen girl

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Speaker 1: facing life without mommy. Nancy Grace Club Stories, signing off

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Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,