1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and twenty one, 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: which is airing in early November of twenty twenty one. 12 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: We are to be talking about how to take a 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: layered approach to childcare. One of the most common questions 14 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: we get at Best of both Worlds is, you know 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: what sort of childcare should I have? You know what 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: do I do for backup? You know what would make 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: sense for my work situation, which is somehow a typical 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: and so we want to just talk a little bit 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: about our philosophy of making that work. Now. Sarah has 20 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: something of a layered approach right now, even though her 21 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: children are all in what apparently you know, we could 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: be considered full time school because, as she has discovered, 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: full time school is not actually full time childcare. Take 24 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: it from that, and you mentioned getting a question of 25 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: like what to do for childcare? I do get the 26 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: question fairly often, like, oh, now that your kids are 27 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: in school, aren't you going to do something different with 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: your childcare? You know, there are times when I admit 29 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: I get a little bit tempted, because it is quite 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: an investment. But every time I even start to think 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: about it, which quite honestly, I haven't really gotten to 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: the point of thinking seriously about it. But when I 33 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: start to meander into thinking about it, then a kid 34 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: gets runny nose, or a kid has an emergency dental incident, 35 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: or there's a holiday that week that the school has 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: off that I don't have off, or there's a teacher 37 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: work day, which we have this week. In fact, this 38 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: week we had like three of these. Yeah, we had 39 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: a dental appointment that I couldn't get to, we had 40 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: a kid with a running nose, and we have a 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: teacher work day. So like, I don't think this week 42 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: is unique. I think these types of weeks come up 43 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: so often. That it's almost like I would be constantly 44 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: cobbling things together. And often when you're cobbling, that can 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: make things even more pricey because you're sort of working 46 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: in an emergency tide market. Plus I would lose I 47 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: would just lose the peace of mind that I number 48 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: one always have childcare and number two currently have my 49 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: childcare help with some other things since there is on 50 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: some days time to do so. So yes, agree, Have 51 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: you had any normal weeks of school so well? I 52 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: mean the kids have been in school, but there's just 53 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: always something, you know, whether a kid gets sick or 54 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, we've had a few days that our nanny 55 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: has needed to take off for various things, and so 56 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: then we have to have back up for Henry for instance, 57 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: unless you know, we're able to cover it. And I'm 58 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: covering Henry tomorrow for some of the day, but we 59 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: had a backup situation for him today, and so that's 60 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: just you know, what you have to do, I mean 61 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: basically with childcare and so well, these are the things 62 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: nobody tells you when you're going into the market for 63 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: it originally, is that every single approach is going to 64 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: have days when it is not available, like every approach 65 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: is not going to cover all the hours that you 66 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: might need coverage, even if that's not regular coverage, it's 67 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: just that you might need it some additional hours sometime. 68 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: So if you are a two career family or you 69 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: are a single parent who is working for pay, you 70 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,839 Speaker 1: are going to need a layered approach until the kids 71 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: are old enough to care for themselves, and the layers 72 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: need to be more robust as things become more complex, 73 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: so as you add in travel for one or both 74 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: of you, as you add in any unexpected late nights 75 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: or we can and shifts for both of you. If 76 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: parents have to absolutely work on site, right if there's 77 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: no option for remote work, that means the layers need 78 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: to be more robust if you have multiple young kids, 79 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,559 Speaker 1: because then that limits how many hours somebody can work 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: without burning out. Basically, so you know all of these 81 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: are going to require more layers, and so people are 82 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: always like, oh, well, what form of childcare should I choose? 83 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, not one, not one. You need 84 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: more than one and figuring out what you know the 85 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: first primary option is, but then also what your secondary 86 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: option is and how often you need it, and you 87 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: know on what level of you know, availability it's going 88 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: to have is a complicated question for many people. So 89 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: you know, we we thought we'd talk about a few 90 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: ideas of how this could work for different families, and 91 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, brainstorming, like these are hype esthetical families, but 92 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: they kind of match up with what we have gotten 93 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: in letters from people in the past. So let's do 94 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: our caveat. Sarah, you want to give our caveat. I 95 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: like your caveat. Well, okay, I had a couple. I 96 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: also want to add one other thing, which is that 97 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: sometimes you want to tell yourself the story that like, oh, 98 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, if my kid get sick, like it'll be fine, Like, 99 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: you know, most days aren't that important that I be 100 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: at work. I get tempted into that line of thinking 101 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: sometimes when I'm thinking about nebulous time in the future, 102 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: and yet when the day approaches and it's like, oh 103 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: my god, I have fifteen patients scheduled and it would 104 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: mean canceling on fifteen patients, or I have like a 105 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: meeting with the CMO of our health system that like 106 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: would be mortifying. Like there's all like I think I've 107 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: run on a blog post, like it's either a bad 108 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: time or a worse time, like to lose your childcare 109 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: like it's never You're never going to be like, oh well, 110 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: it's okay, Like I mean maybe not never se to 111 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: not have child. I was hoping to just curl up 112 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,239 Speaker 1: and you know, watch movies with my runny nose tilder 113 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: all day. I mean it does not sound terrible, but 114 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: like there's always going to be stuff going on. So 115 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: I think that you do have to be very realistic. 116 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean, if you and your partner both have extremely 117 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: flexible careers and you can work out a thing where 118 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: like each parent is fully on call and you like 119 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: have a schedule and like you really truly, but I 120 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: don't think there's that many careers that are like that, 121 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: and certainly not that many families where both people are 122 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: that flexible where it wouldn't be. Yeah, it also depends 123 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: on the age of the kids too. So if all 124 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: of your kids are like sort of in school aids, 125 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: like over six years old and so could be reliably 126 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: distracted during an important call with minecraft for an hour, 127 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: like chances are that they would not actually interrupt you 128 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: for it, then you potentially could have the layers be 129 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, some primary system for the kids. But then 130 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: the secondary is the two of you could work from 131 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: home and could alternate, you know, like Monday and Tuesday 132 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: is always one parent, Wednesday and Thursday is always the 133 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: other parents. So if something comes up, you know, and 134 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: you can see how this would lead to occasional promptsuse 135 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: what if party A is traveling on Wednesday or Thursday 136 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: or something like that. So you know, you would have 137 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: to rework it as time goes on. But theoretically it 138 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: could in fact work. But again, as you have younger 139 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: kids than that becomes harder to do because you know, 140 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: there's very little you can do with a two year 141 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: old to reliably keep them away from you while you're 142 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: trying to do a call, even if you are in 143 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: fact working from home. And I would just add here 144 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: that if you have very long hours, I've had conversations 145 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: with people and they're like, why do I keep losing 146 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: my childcare? My nannies keep quitting, And it's like, well, 147 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: they're expecting them to work sixty hours a week with 148 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: like an infant in a three year old, and it's 149 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: like they have no break. I mean, they're on constantly, 150 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: and so that's why people are quitting, and so if 151 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: you are in that situation you need significantly more than 152 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: forty hours, You probably need more than one person. So 153 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: that's your layer as well, all right. So our caveat 154 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: as I go on, is that all of these families 155 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: are probably not normal families in the sense that when 156 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: you have any options for childcare, that puts you in 157 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: a rather privileged place. I know a great many people 158 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: do not have many options at all, and so we 159 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that. But on the other hand, we 160 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: are trying to be of service to the core of 161 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: our listeners, which, as we see from the letters we get, 162 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: tend to be people who do have options and are 163 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: trying to figure out which option would best support both 164 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: them and their partner as they try to build their 165 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: careers while raising a young family. And I would also 166 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: like to stress that again, as we said, some people 167 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: think that if you have option what are let's say, 168 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,119 Speaker 1: a full time nanny, that you have no problems ever whatsoever. 169 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: But you know, you can have very reliable childcare. But 170 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: if somebody is a mortal human being, like stuff happens 171 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: that people get sick, they have family emergencies, or car 172 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: breaks down, whatever it is, and so you might still 173 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: need another option in the back of your mind, even 174 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: if you don't need it all that often. All right, 175 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: So Sarah, Yeah, I mean I can speak for that 176 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: personally because our Nanni is extremely, extremely reliable. She has 177 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: worked for our family, been employed by us for over 178 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: eight years now, and we've still run into issues where 179 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: by no fault of anyone, we just need something else 180 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: as well, because there's just you know, someone gets very sick, 181 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: or there's a funeral, or something big happens in somebody's life, 182 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: and you can't control every single variable. Plus, people do 183 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: need to take vacations, and that's very important, and I 184 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: think making sure that people can get appropriate time off 185 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: is probably the key to making sure your relationship can 186 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: be healthy for eight years or more. All Right. So, 187 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: couple one somewhat similar to one of our hosts here 188 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: to the physicians two preschool aged kids, let's say age 189 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: three and four. Clinic occasionally runs long, but within a range, 190 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: and there is call for some weekend and night hours. Sarah, 191 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: what would you suggest, Yeah, this one's definitely for me. Right. Well, 192 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: the first thing I would suggest is that those physicians, 193 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: if their kids are that age, consider taking their call 194 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: at the same time with childcare, if that's possible, Because 195 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: I do have friends in the situation who are you know, 196 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: and did it myself who stagger their call and then 197 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: never see each other. And I think I figured out 198 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: early on that that was not ideal. So that's one 199 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: thing to think about, figuring out if you can do that. 200 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: I agreed that this would be a scenario where layered 201 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: is a must. I mean, this was kind of like 202 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: Josh and me when we just had Annabel and Cameron 203 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: and they were little, and in our case, what worked 204 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: really well was to have daycare or school available plus 205 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: some backup sitters. At that time, we happened to live 206 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: near family and that was an option and a nanny 207 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: so that, you know, having kind of multiple layers in 208 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: place and having a preschool off for your like two 209 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: plus year old to allow them to a get that stimulation. 210 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, the downside is they're going to bring 211 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: home more germs, but there are upsides as well, and 212 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: to make sure you are not burning out your nanny 213 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: and to have a backup in case something goes wrong, 214 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: because it's one thing to ask your family member to 215 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: care for one child, and it's it's a bigger ass 216 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: to care for, like a baby and a toddler. So 217 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: that is what we did, and that is probably what 218 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: most people would need in that situation. And I do think, 219 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: you know, we don't really we haven't gotten help from 220 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: family in a long time because we moved a lot 221 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: farther as well. But for those that can swing it, 222 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: that may be a theme to at least think about 223 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: if it's an option, because in certain scenarios that's a 224 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: wonderful layer of backup and has other benefits of having 225 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: your kids be close to older family members. Yeah, especially 226 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: having the preschool plus full time nanny option, it gives 227 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: you some more coverage for those evening hours. But then 228 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: if you know the preschool is not available on a day, 229 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: your full time child crimon be able to come earlier 230 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: because that is their full time job, so presumably there 231 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: might be some flexibility to that. But then if your 232 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: full time nanny was not available, somebody as a backup 233 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: could pick your kids up from preschool let's say, you know, 234 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: one or two o'clock whenever they're done with it, and 235 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: that's a smaller number of hours you're having to find 236 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: coverage for. Let's say it's two to six, or you know, 237 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: even noon to six is just more doable than finding 238 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: necessarily a whole day of care. So that's what we 239 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: would recommend for that couple. And I think we need 240 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: to take a quick break before our next one, so 241 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:51,359 Speaker 1: stay tuned. All right, Well, we are back talking about childcare, 242 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: a layered approach. Various types of childcare we might recommend 243 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: for different families in different scenarios. Couple too, is a 244 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: high school principal plus lawyer. So this couple has one toddler. 245 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: Now the things to think about here. Lawyers tend to 246 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: work longer hours, but they often are slightly more set 247 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: hours for many of them. A high school principal starts 248 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,239 Speaker 1: very early. On the other hand, you know, they theoretically 249 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: could be done early, but there's probably lots of occasional 250 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: evening events that they're going to have to show up for, 251 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: dealing with the community and things like that. So what 252 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: would we recommend for them? So there's no one right answer. 253 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, we haven't mentioned OPERR yet, although I think 254 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: we were going to think about it in a future answer. 255 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: But if this people had extra room and wanted that flexibility, 256 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: that might be helpful. Because anytime you have an early starter, 257 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: you might need extra help in the morning, and having 258 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: someone that's actually living in your household could provide that. Now, 259 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: there are rules we always give this caveat with OH 260 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: pairs about providing overnight care. Often you're not allowed to 261 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: do that, but there's certainly no rule that they can't 262 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: get up with the kids in the morning and help 263 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: with breakfast and getting ready for school. And if you 264 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: have a high school principal rushing out the door at 265 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: seven am, and another parent that I don't know sometimes 266 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: has to catch up on work or takes a call 267 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: in a different sime zone in the morning, it might 268 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: be nice to have another set of hands. I also 269 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: have to say that this sounds a little bit like 270 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: my sister in law and brother in law because they're 271 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: a lawyer, teacher combo. She was a guest on the 272 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: show That's Missed Rachel Hunger anyway, So their solution at 273 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: the time I think was to use daycare and also 274 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: rely on family as they lived right nearby. Yeah, I 275 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: would suggest the daycare plus o pair option for this family, 276 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: and the reason being that with one toddler and you 277 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: need full time care for that you're going to run 278 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: up into the hour limit with an O pair forty 279 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: five hours max. A week, You're going to hit that 280 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: with this family. Since it's a toddler and they're always there, 281 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: there's like you need full time coverage. It's not like 282 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: they're in school, So how can you approximate the school 283 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: while you can put them in at least a part 284 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: time daycare. And so if you were able to find 285 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: a relatively affordable daycare solution, the O pair solution can 286 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: also be relatively affordable too. In general, because there is 287 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: a cultural element to it that people are coming to 288 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: the US, it tends not to be quite as expensive 289 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: as the full time salary of a professional nanny. And 290 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: since this family is already dealing with teenagers all the 291 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: time as part of the high school principal aspect, they 292 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: may have a higher tolerance for like twenty year olds 293 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: than many other people might. So that's something I would 294 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: suggest for this family. And then obviously if the daycare 295 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: didn't work out on some day, if the child was 296 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: sick and couldn't go, then the O pair would be 297 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: available to care for them on that day for at 298 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: least some number of hours. And then hopefully the family 299 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: could shift on either side their work hours to care 300 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: for the kid as well in those days. All right. 301 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: Couple three This is a consultant who has a fairly 302 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: intense travel schedule plus a tech company project manager. They 303 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: have three elementary school aged kids who are five, seven, 304 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: and nine. I'm feeling full time manny on this one, 305 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: all right, just because of the possible need for overnight 306 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: help at times, plus minus living near family as well 307 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: if they can you can sense the theme again, this 308 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: is not something that really applies to us, even though 309 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: we do live somewhat near family. But I do know 310 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: when I speak to others that's often part of the 311 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: story of what makes things work. So I don't want 312 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: to leave it out here. But the fact that they 313 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: may need frequent overnight coverage, I mean, their kids are 314 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: in school most of the time. I also would probably 315 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: add in a trusted like aftercare like so for example, 316 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: the gymnastics gym my kids go to, they have a 317 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: ton of additional like aftercare type stuff where they offer 318 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: gymnastics programming and other stuff. They need to find some 319 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: like activities or you know, it could be an after 320 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: school program, but better if it's not affiliated with the 321 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: school so that if there's like a teacher work day 322 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: or something like that, and I guess they have their 323 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: nanny as well, but sometimes having an activity or two 324 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: like that where you know you have that option. I 325 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: know it's helped us. And this family sounds like they 326 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: got a lot going on and a lot of kids, 327 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: so having some community option in addition to their nanny 328 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: and then school would probably be a nice combo. Yeah, 329 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: this is another family that might need, you know, the 330 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: full time nanny even though they have school available, because 331 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: if one person has to go to work and the 332 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: other is like off in California and you know it's 333 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: the backup is just you know, if a child is 334 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: out of school for some reason, or you know there's 335 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: a half day, they're going to need the full time coverage. 336 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: Some people in this situation say, once they're all in school, 337 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: they do go with the opair option because they think 338 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: they would like the flexibility of the morning and the afternoon. 339 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: So again that's another option that can work with that. 340 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: But as as Sarah has found, the full time nanny 341 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: even though all your kids are in school can work 342 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: well with that too. I think this is a family 343 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: that would need to you know, not try to skimp 344 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: on that, because when one parent is gone a lot, 345 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: it can be really hard on the other person to 346 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: continue their career unless they have you know, full layers 347 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: of coverage there. And then we wanted to try a 348 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: single parent family. So let's say we've got a mom 349 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: and a nine and eleven year old. So this family 350 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: most likely needs driving help. Mom works full time in 351 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: a corporate manager role. She can't leave the kids home 352 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: alone all day, right, so if they're homesick from school, 353 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: she can't just like you know, leave them there from 354 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: seven thirty to five thirty. But on the other hand, 355 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: they could be home for a few hours by themselves, 356 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: the nine and the eleven year old, Sarah, what would 357 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: you suggest for that? So I know a family kind 358 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: of like this pretty well, and what they have done 359 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: that's worked pretty well is what I mentioned about kind 360 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: of having activities where there's aftercare included, so they're they're 361 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: involved in number of those. And then honestly, this person 362 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: has done a wonderful job just creating a huge village 363 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: of friends, and I think that if you do put 364 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: effort in that, which might mean that she's often having 365 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: other people's kids over at other times. This person's very social, 366 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: so I think it works really really well for her. 367 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: And she also does, I think, strategically live near her 368 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: family as well, who help her on occasion, I think 369 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: when everything else falls through. But she has so many 370 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: other layers that even though she doesn't have her own 371 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: nanny or o pair, she's actually able to make it 372 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: work really well. Yeah, it can work really well. And again, 373 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: the living near family. We keep saying this, but for 374 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: many people that is a pretty good backup option that 375 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: they're not going to provide full time care. But the 376 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: peace of mind you have knowing that say Grandma or 377 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: an aunt, your cousins are occasionally available if you did 378 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: need them, allows you to not have to have a 379 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: paid solution that it's going to be hard to maintain 380 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: because because that's the issue. It's like when you have 381 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: multiple layers, then you have to think about the logistics 382 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: of the multiple layers, and it could get pretty hard. 383 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: You know, when we were doing daycare when Jasper was little, 384 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: we wound up with you know, it was like five 385 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: backup sitters at one point, but they were never all available. Right, 386 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: It's like I would find somebody and they'd work for 387 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: a while and do some nights, and then something would happen, 388 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: they'd move on, and you know, I'm trying to find 389 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: someone else, and so it's like, you know, I have 390 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: five people on the roster, but you know whether any 391 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: given person is going to be available to work, and 392 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: especially on short notice, can be really challenging to make work. 393 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: So what if you're over the time. You know, you've 394 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: had different situations, Sarah, you've done daycare for a while too. Yeah. 395 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: I mean when we were residents. Financially, there wasn't really 396 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: another option available to us at the time, and I 397 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: don't think an opair would have covered enough hours, even 398 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: if we could have swung that, which maybe is similar 399 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: to the cost of a year of full time daycare, 400 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't think that would have worked hours wise. So, yeah, 401 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: we did the Duke daycare. We loved it. It was 402 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: when we had one kid. It was a great experience 403 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: that the secret is that a hospital affiliated daycare probably 404 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: has longer hours. So we definitely benefited work because from 405 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: what I understand of like residency hours, it would have 406 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: been difficult to residence. If I had been a resident, 407 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: we would have had to take out loans and get 408 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: more types of coverage, because what do your residents do now? 409 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: They day combination of daycare. Not all of them have 410 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: physician partners, so that's always easier if you if your 411 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: partner is more flexible. Some of them specifically chose our 412 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: program so they could be closer to family, so that 413 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: was a strategic option for them. Yeah, so a combination 414 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: of things. And honestly, you know, I have residence with 415 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: little babies, so I think they're all kind of learning. 416 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: It's I don't have resident I have, and I've had 417 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: residence with like older kids. But the next couple of 418 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: years will be interesting to see what they do and 419 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: as we hopefully, you know, multiply are the babies in 420 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: our residency family, I bet there'll be more. Yeah, I mean, 421 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: so we've had, you know, a bunch of different things 422 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: over the years. You know, we've for the past twelve years, 423 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: we've always had a full time nanny, but different ones 424 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: have been available for different number of hours per week, 425 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: often as a personal preference, and when that's less then 426 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: we've wound up hiring part time sitters as well. So 427 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: for a while we had one person a full time nanny, 428 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: who worked eight to six Monday to Thursday, because she 429 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: decided that she needed to limit it to forty hours. 430 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: And she was wonderful and we loved her, so we 431 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: said we would make that work. And so we wound 432 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: up hiring a person for Fridays, so that person would 433 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: work you know, ten to twelve hours per week. So 434 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: that was one full time and one part time. And 435 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: then the upside of having the part time is then 436 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: you have a regular sitter option too, you know, if 437 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: the person ever wants to work extra hours the evenings 438 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: or weekends than they are available. You know, we had 439 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: for a while when Ruth was in preschool and the 440 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: boys were in full time school, that we had our 441 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: full time nanny generally start on at noon on the 442 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: day she was in preschool, right, so we had the 443 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: layered approach of school and preschool plus the full time 444 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: nanny to get some evening hours. We have had a 445 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: situation where we you know, needed some overnight coverage and 446 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: needed more, you know than one night, and so what 447 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: we've had is had a backups that are come in 448 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: the evening so you know, to provide I guess respite 449 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: for the person who was staying overnight so that they 450 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: could go off and do their own thing for a 451 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: few hours and then trade off again. And so no 452 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: one person was on twenty four to seven for multiple 453 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: days in a row, which can get really tough with 454 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: young kids. I mean, I've done it, but I'm their mom, 455 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: so it's a different, different sort of thing. And you know, 456 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: right now, currently we actually, you know, we have our 457 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: full time nanny and the four big kids are in school. 458 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: We have a family friend who will occasionally take our 459 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: baby if we need coverage for him, but then we 460 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: need to be around for the other big kids. But 461 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: that's mostly worked because Michael has been working from home 462 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: for the past eighteen months. So between the two of us, 463 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, even if one of us had, you know, 464 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: like I'm giving a virtual speech or something, he might 465 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: be available to, you know, pick up a kid or 466 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: deal with you know, Alex when he gets home or 467 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: vice versa. If he has to run into the office 468 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: for the day, then I'm here and I can be 469 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, decide to not do anything after four o'clock 470 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: if I have to deal with the kids, the older kids, 471 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: for instance. So you know, one way or another, you 472 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: make it work. But it definitely helps to have two 473 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: parties able to work from home versus one. I can 474 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: say that that is a silver lining of the pandemic 475 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: for sure. That is awesome. Now we have our full 476 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: time nanny still, and then the kids are obviously in 477 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: st school, and I don't see us changing things up 478 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: anytime soon. I mean the more again, every time I 479 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: even think about it, stuff happens. And then the activities 480 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: kind of are a lot too, and I need another driver, 481 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: and my husband's never going to be home, so it's 482 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, sometimes he's home, but I can't 483 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: rely on him being home at a given time really 484 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: on any specific day, so we need it there. Yes, 485 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: all right, Well let's move to our question. This listener 486 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: is a software engineer, which is an industry that she 487 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: feels suffers from sexism and agism, though her particular organization 488 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: is much better because that's why she chose it. But anyway, 489 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: she says she is a bit older than her peers 490 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: and didn't bother to tell anyone her real age. She 491 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: started work as a fresh PhD grad and actually looks 492 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: quite a bit younger than she is. I lets say, 493 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: is what she what she's telling us here? So people 494 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: think she's younger than she is. Her deliver thinks what 495 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: she thinks. She thinks, she I guess she hasn't taken 496 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: a poll of her office, like how old do you 497 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: think I am? People? However, so she has made a 498 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: decision years ago to start dyeing her hair. She says, 499 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: I don't think I can keep doing this, however, forever, 500 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: because as she has hit forty, she has noticed the 501 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: white strands have come in faster and faster. Her hair 502 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: is very, very dark, so gray hairs are quite noticeable, 503 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: and the low maintenance highlight and low light techniques don't 504 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: seem into work for her. She feels like her scalp 505 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: is becoming more sensitive as she's dumping the black dye 506 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: on it daily, or whatever it is she's doing to 507 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: hide the grays. So she asks us, am I being 508 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: overly concerned about agism? Should she just surrender and go 509 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: gray or partly gray or whatever? She's worried about the 510 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: professional consequences. Is there any tip to keep it easy 511 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: and less damaging. There's some of embracing gray, she says, 512 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: but people tend to talk about beauty and nature and 513 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: not about the professional cost. So what do we suggest? 514 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: She did, so, Sarah, you don't actually dye your hair, 515 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: do you? I have never. I love this question. I 516 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: like have been pondering because I just think it's so 517 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: interesting and I have myself, so you know, I've never 518 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: dyed my hair. I don't have very much gray. I mean, 519 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: like I can find some grays, but and in this light, 520 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: but no, it's really there's not that much gray, and 521 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: certainly like not like obvious streaks or anything. People often 522 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: assume that I dye my hair because it's kind of 523 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: an odd color, and I feel like it's a color 524 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: some people dye their hair. So I actually I brought 525 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: this question to my manager. I was I mean, not 526 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: the whole question, but I was like, hey, do you 527 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: think that, like, if my hair starts to go gray, 528 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: I should die it because it would like hurt me professionally. 529 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: And he's like, he's like, first of all, how old 530 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: are you? And second of all, don't you dye your hair? 531 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, I don't dye my hair. And 532 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: he's like, oh, yeah, you know, come to think of it, 533 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: I've never seen your hair growing in any different colors. 534 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: That makes sense. And then I was like, hey, but 535 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, like all the other doctors we work like, 536 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: I mean not to like throw anyone under the bus, 537 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: but like most people do not have their natural goal 538 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: that I work with, and some are older. So he's like, oh, 539 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: you're right. So he wasn't really able to answer me, 540 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: although it was also kind of funny because he's like, 541 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: you're forty one. So that's partly why I'm like, I 542 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: don't who knows how old the people think she is, 543 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: Like she thinks they think she's younger, but maybe they 544 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: know people tend to figure that kind of thing out 545 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: cultural references. I don't know who knows, But my other 546 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: thought is this is such an interesting question. He also 547 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: said to me, he was like, this doctor doesn't die 548 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: their hair. I'm like, that's a man. I'm like, that 549 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: is totally different, Yeah, because men can age gracefully and 550 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: it's harder for us. I don't know the answer. I mean, 551 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: part of me feels like she should just go gray 552 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: and she can always like rediet, or like maybe she'll 553 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: find that so much of her hair is gray that 554 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: she could diet blonde with like much gentler washes or something. 555 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know much about blonde 556 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: hair from I think her hair was black as part 557 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: of you know her, she's of an ethnicity that it 558 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: would not really work to go blonde, you know what 559 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm saying. So I don't be that's true. It would 560 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: be very I think people you know, it's a it's 561 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: a very interesting question. I do dye my hair, and 562 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: I however, I've been doing it since I was fifteen, 563 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: so it's not because I was getting gray hairs. It's 564 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: just that I wanted to have blonde hair like I 565 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: had when I was a kid. And I probably have 566 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: some grays, but I don't know that I have that many. 567 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: I probably I have some, but I don't know, like, 568 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how many because it doesn't show up 569 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: that much. And people do, as you said, dye their 570 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: hair blonde because that is what you can hide gray with. 571 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: I think it would be hard to dye your hair 572 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: other colors to hide gray with as you go on. 573 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: So this is a tough question. I guess if she 574 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: thinks her organization is more open than a lot of others, 575 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: it might be worth having a conversation with a really 576 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: good stylist and see if there's a way that she 577 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: could have some sort of hybrid hair, you know, that 578 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: that has maybe some element of gray in it and 579 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: then some element of the black hair in it, and 580 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: see if there was a way that this could be 581 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: done with like a really awesome cut that would would 582 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 1: look you know, fresh and modern and not so much 583 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: about the gray as just being very interesting and sophisticated. 584 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: And then maybe that's an option I would I would 585 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 1: suggest also looking through you know, magazines, any you know, 586 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: files of photos places to see if there are examples 587 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: of people who have some amount of gray that is 588 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: blended into their hair in a way that folks professional 589 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: and chic and all that good stuff. And then she 590 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: could sort of have that hybrid for a while and 591 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: see how it goes and see if that is easier 592 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: to maintain when it's not her whole head having to 593 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: be dyed so frequently. And then as time goes on, 594 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: she might you know, switch it over more to the 595 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: gray as people get accustomed to it and you know, 596 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: realize that it's still her, you know, and that she's 597 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: still doing as great work as she was. But as 598 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: you can see from Sarah and I having a haying 599 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: about this, we don't know, like we don't know the 600 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: answer to this question. So I would love to hear 601 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: from people in industries that have something of a youth focus, 602 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: like the tech industry does, ones that tend to be 603 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: more male dominated, again, like the tech industry tends to do. 604 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: What you've done about dyeing your hair and going gray, 605 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: and how you have approached that, if you have decided 606 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: to just say, hey, I am who I am. My 607 00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: hair is what it is. I don't want to spend 608 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: the time on it, and everyone can just accept me. 609 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: If you have found some sort of hybrid solution or 610 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: if you are doing the high maintenance one where you 611 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: are dying it frequently to keep that youthful look, so 612 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: please let us know and we will we will report back. 613 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: I kind of think I'm going to try to just 614 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: not start to dye my hair, because I feel like 615 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: once you start, it's just that slippery slope and I 616 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: already straighten and that's already pain in the button. Like 617 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: I just I don't like the idea of like dying 618 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: it and then at one point having to have this 619 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: like gray line grow in. Like I think I'd rather 620 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: just gradually have my hair get more mixed. Could work, 621 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I know this question wasn't about me, 622 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,239 Speaker 1: but obviously we think certainly thought yes, yes, all right, 623 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: well let us know. You can write to us, let 624 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: us know what our listeners should do. We are real quick. 625 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: We'll do our love of the week. I'm going to 626 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: go with my hair dye, you know, Larel Preference nine 627 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: and a half, a lightest ash blonde. I make the 628 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: little streaks. I do my hair dyeing myself, so it's 629 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: actually quite cheap. Doesn't take too much time either, because 630 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: I can do it whenever I want, as opposed to 631 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: having to get an appointment at a salon. So throw 632 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,239 Speaker 1: that out there as an idea. But it's hard for 633 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: many people to do because you have to master certain 634 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: like highlighting techniques. But if you practice on your own 635 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: hair since you're fifteen, turns out you can learn, Sarah, 636 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: how about you. My love of the week is buying 637 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: baby gifts because even though I don't need to buy 638 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: a baby stuff for myself, I just get so much 639 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: joy every time someone has a baby and I get 640 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: to shock the little tiny clothing. So I just bought 641 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: a set of tiny ug boots with a matching blanket 642 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: for someone and it's just the cutest thing cute. I 643 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: hope the baby gets to wear them before they grow 644 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: out of them. They always grow out so fast of everything. 645 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: It's a problem with baby gear. All right. Well, we've 646 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: been talking the layered approach to childcare and also about 647 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: whether to let your hair go gray. We will be 648 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: back next week with more on making work and life 649 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah 650 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: at the sh shoebox dot com or at the Underscore 651 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at 652 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of 653 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more 654 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: on making work and life work together.