WEBVTT - DORIS BURKE AND HOLLY ROWE 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:14.040 Two women are road tripping through Europe, sharing laughs, stories 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.799 and adventures as they wind through narrow back roads. They've 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:22.680 been dear friends forever, celebrated together, supported and consoled each other. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.040 Both have faced obstacles and persevered and broken through barriers 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:31.080 in the traditionally male industry, and now they are as 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:36.839 acclaimed and respected in their roles as anyone. Writing Shotgun 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.640 in the Little Rental Car is Doris Burke, the first 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.080 female analyst for NBA games and first to call men's 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.640 n ci A tournament games. For years, Doris also covered 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.760 the Women's Championships and w n b A. Behind the 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.920 wheel is Holly Row, my colleague and primetime college football broadcast, 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.440 the National Championship Game and Heisman Trophy Show. When he's 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.240 not working Utah Jazz games or the w NBA, Holly 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.520 has covered just about everything in college sports over the 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.319 last thirty years. So today I've got Doris Burke and 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.759 Holly Row together and this is one of the most 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.319 enjoyable conversations in our five seasons. A window into their 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.560 friendship and achievements. It's like sitting in the back seat 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.560 on one of their road trips. Well, Doris and Holly, 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.319 I am so pleased to have us merged together on 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:30.760 this call. Two broadcast icons are not only massively respected 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.960 by the people they cover, who are the highest achievers, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.720 most successful people in sports, but also beloved by them, 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.000 which is a difficult thing and a different thing. So 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.360 what's that like, Holly, to be beloved by the people 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:49.440 that you cover? Because I don't know that you don't 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.720 know that feeling. I don't know that I'm beloved. I 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.320 think people are very kind, and I think I've been 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.080 doing it a long time. I think I learned. Uh, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.480 someone said something really sweet to me when I was 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.920 going through my battle with cancer that, um, you've been 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:05.760 coming into our living rooms. You've been a guest in 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.400 our home for over twenty years, so of course we 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.320 love you. So I thought that was a sweet way 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.240 to say it is we're a guest in people's homes. Um, 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.000 So I think that's part of it. But then I 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.080 think you do go into respect. I always would feel 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.080 so secretly pleased every time Doris was doing you know, 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:25.000 the postgame championship, NBA Finals and Lebron's like, you know, well, Doris, 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.560 you know, the highest of the high love and respect 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.639 her and that always made me feel so proud. So 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.959 I think it's just a lot of hard work and 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.640 being good at your job where people respect your work ethic, 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.400 but also having a good way about you. Chris can 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.799 I can I tell a story that will documented exactly 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.519 how beloved Holly row is this come back always. But 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:48.919 Gail Guest and Corps at the time was the head 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.679 coach at Duke and she has been a multiple final four. 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.720 She's experiencing all kinds of success. And you know how 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.160 it goes. You're you guys go to football practice, we 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.280 go to basketball practice. I'll never forget this. The three 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.720 of us are standing at mid court and Holly's relative 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.280 not new to women's basketball because she had covered the 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.480 w NBA should cover, but new to like covering the 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.240 final four, and Gail is going to be in the 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.480 final four. This you know, this is happening. And I 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.040 don't remember what month it is, but I remember distinctly 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.920 Holly looking Gail Guest in course directly in the Ian, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.400 saying to her, now, Gail, have you always been a 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:33.280 control freak? And Gail's even a colored drain from it. 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.680 I don't know which way to run, and all of 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.160 a sudden just the three of us burst out laughing. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.600 I have witnessed so many times over the years, Chris. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.160 They they love and respect that people have for not 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.960 only Holly's work habits, but her passion for both the 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.360 sports that she covers and the individual stories, um that 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.040 she covers. And I think people can feel that, and 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.160 I think they really appreciate that about Holly. Well, they 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.320 appreciate that about YouTube doors. That's kind of you to 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.480 say that about your friend. But I mean, whether it 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.320 is Lebron or Papovitch or Kobe, the legends of coaching, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:11.280 that the highest basketball minds out there, they respect you. 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.560 That's hard one. We'll get into that for both of you. 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.360 But also the affection whether it's Drake or anybody else, 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.680 I mean big stars, not just athletes and coaches. I 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:25.640 mean that has to feel pretty darn good. Yeah, you know, um, Chris, 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.279 I remember saying this before. Um, Holly and I were 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.800 both established in our careers prior to the advent of 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.440 social media, and it hasn't always been the case that 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.080 you know this, There's been this feeling towards me. There 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.040 was a long stretch of time where because I was 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.800 an analyst on men's college and the NBA. There was 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.400 this sentiment coming at me about who is she to 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.400 say that she's never played or coach these sports. Obviously 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:58.240 I coached women's basketball, played women's basketball. Um, and I've 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.560 said this many times to the player in the coaches 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.560 because they have been my soft landing spot. Chris and 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.360 I've said this, and I said it to Drake Um 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.599 when I finally met him after he put that picture 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.320 on his shirt. You know, I said, I really appreciate 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.200 that you expressed in your own way respect for my work. 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.440 When you hear something's forign to your ear, what's your 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.240 first response? We all pulled back from something's different. We 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.600 don't know what this is, what to expect. And when 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.800 I started, it was unusual, where now it's it's commonplace. 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:30.880 Do you like how she just dropped that in there, like, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.680 you know, when I was talking to Drake, like it's 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.720 just such a normal women crush every day. By the way, 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.080 with a big face of Doris Burke, I'm surprised you 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.880 haven't come up with your line of merchandise there with 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.240 your face on. I do want to tell you one 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.040 funny story, So I want to give my son mckaylan, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.719 who um, he is the one person in the world 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.880 that adores Doris more than maybe her own children. So 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.720 my son has been visiting miss Burke since he was 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.640 fifteen years old, and he wore this Drake. Sure he 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.160 did a post on social media coming into Doris Brooke's 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.000 house for Thanksgiving like in any tax drink, and the 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.680 very next week Drake posted about Doris. So I just 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:13.840 want mkaylan to get a little credit doors. I just 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.360 think he opened up the Drake floodgates a little bit. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:24.720 I mean, you guys, you know, not exactly overnight successes 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.200 racing around the basis to universal applause and the claim. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.760 I mean it has been Um, it has been a struggle. 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.040 Doris talked about it. Holly. You come into a variety 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.880 of sports, but college football might be one of the 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:44.280 most I don't know, macho masculine, testosterone driven sports there is, right, 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.720 and it's a sport not widely played by women, So 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.960 you can understand if some neagraaphal mindsets are carrying the 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.520 day early on. But but talk about just going into 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.320 to this sport and having to win respect and show 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.160 you know what you're talking about. Yeah, I had a 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.280 couple of funny incidents early in my career, and um, 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.680 I'll tell this story about this coach, but I don't 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:11.360 want him to be disparsed. Remember my first feeling of 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.160 I'm the woman in the meeting room was with an 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.680 old defensive coordinator at Mississippi State named Jolie Dunn, and 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.560 I asked a question based on a quote I had 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.120 read from him, and he kind of looked up, like 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.800 what and and then he answered to Rodney Gilmore and 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.320 he wouldn't even look at me. I could just tell 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:28.960 he was so uncomfortable for me to be in the 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.040 room and talking and he would look away and answer 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.240 someone else. So fast forward twenty years, and you know, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.640 Jolie Dunn and I are fast friends, and and every 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.920 stop he's been at he comes and chats with me 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.040 and we talk about his extensive video collection and his 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.760 family and him, you know, him helping to create the 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.040 the unique defense with five defensive bats. Um. So, I 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.680 feel like those are the types of stories where they 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.240 go in feeling like who's this? But you earn your 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.360 way by being good at your job. I've asked plenty 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.280 of dumb questions, but I think people know my desire, 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.000 and I think they start to learn I'm obsessed with 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.800 college football. Like if I wasn't a woman, I would 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.640 probably be at the highest level of being an analytic. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.960 No one has watched more college football other than maybe 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.160 you and Kirk Herb Street, and in my lifetime, I 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:22.000 can talk to you about label edwards. Um, all of 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.600 the coaches that started that offense that then became the 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.400 air raid offense, and how that happened with Don Kriel 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.000 and then Mike Tleach stole the bay you passing around. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.240 I know how the zone read was invented. You know, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.200 like I know all this this information because I've lived 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.440 college football for forty years now at the very most 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.920 intense scrutiny level. So um, I feel like I've just 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.760 earned it by people understand I'm obsessed with football and 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.480 I can speak their language. So we can ask a 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.760 trivia question every week in the booth, and Kirk and 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:51.800 I were something how they knew the answer in the field. 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:53.839 I wish you just buzzed in from the field because 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.000 you could have saved our team to answer Chris Felika's 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.600 trivia question, right, Doris, You know, there are just certain 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.160 moments as a viewer, particularly a woman viewer, where it's 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.480 really poignant. And for me, the moments where I see 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:12.480 Holly row Say interview Nick Saban or Dabbo and it 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.200 maybe a tough moment, and yet they stop, they take 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.240 the time and they respectfully answer questions that sometimes aren't 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.600 easy to answer or uncomfortable, and uh, you know, I'll 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.800 go back to another moment. And there's some women in 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.559 the business who are on the text Chaine Jasmindoza Holly 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.439 Beth moments, the first time Beth moments called Monday Night Football. 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.160 I remember this distinctly. I am in my home in 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.079 Rhode Island and tears are streaming down my face because 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.800 you couldn't be more right, Chris. Football to me, whether 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.360 it's college football or the NFL, are two most popular 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:50.240 sports in this country. When women achieve a measure of 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.880 success in those particular fields of endeavor, it is so 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.680 powerful to me. Um and it's just, you know, it's 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.160 just for me. It's beautiful and it's fun. And then 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.480 it's like, oh, my goodness, where is that next generation 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.559 of women going to take us? Because you know what, 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.480 what I admire about this next generation that Holly and 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.480 I have spent our career and I kid you not, 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.160 we talked about this all the time. We have spent 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:18.000 our career thinking every year, this is our last. They're 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:19.800 not going to give us another one. We're done, this 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.720 is my last gig. And the next generation of women 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.520 just know they belong um. There's no I don't know. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.760 I don't know whether like not that they don't face challenges, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.319 but there's a level of confidence to me that I 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.760 just love about the women coming coming that are a 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.679 little younger than us. I definitely want to circle back 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:42.640 to that and the legacy that both you guys believe 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.920 in the impact that you've had. Longevity is interesting, I 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.240 don't think because you've both been asked about that, But 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.400 longevity in this business doesn't happen, in my opinion, unless 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.720 you just love the process. It can't just be about 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.240 when the lights on, the games are going on. And 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.920 both of you guys just divide our the process practices. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.640 You talked about that, Holly. The meetings are reading, watching tape. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:06.600 People don't know what goes into it. But I don't 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.000 think if you don't embrace that part of it, we're 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.960 not sitting here talking about decades of a career, right, Yeah, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.040 you have to love it. And and you know, I've 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.120 had an interesting experience with Doris. We went to the 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.120 London Olympics together in twelve as fans and it was 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.400 so fun because we went to almost all the basketball 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.679 We went to t m USA. That was the was 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.480 that the Redeemed team Doris with Lebron and Kobe. I 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.160 think that's the one they were just doing the documentary about, right, 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.839 I think so. I remember us seeing Lebron on the 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.040 subway platform in London, remember that, and fans are just 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.480 mobbing in and we were like, what's up man? Hy 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:50.520 But um the you know, I just think that the 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.520 where we were sitting there watching games and Doris just 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.120 loses herself in the basketball and it's like my friends gone, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.199 She's not there. She is so into basketball, and I 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.640 keep I just never forget that that's her happy place. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.120 And it's the same way with football and Chris, I 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.719 know for you for tennis, of like I get so 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.079 lost in the action. I've seen my friend get so 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.920 lost in the action that I know that's her happy place. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.439 That's my happy place. So it's the thing I'm most 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.040 proud of in my career. To be perfectly honest with you, Chris, 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.640 is the longevity. Um. You know, I started in a 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.160 very small way when I left coaching, and I often 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.079 joked like one of my biggest breaks is doing the 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.520 w n b A on radio for the New York Liberty. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:38.800 There wasn't a person listening, not one. But I love 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.800 the process because the travel, you know, being alone in 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:43.760 the hotels and dinners on the rush and this and matter. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.839 If you don't love it, you're not gonna last because 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.800 you're away from your family. I have two children, Um, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.680 I now have a grandson. Like Christmas Day will remain hard. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.920 Christmas Eve. I just booked my flight to Boston. Um, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.760 so there are challenges, but it is it's the love 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.320 of sports that you cover and the people you cover. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.719 I mean, think about it. Think about some of the 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.719 college football games Holly row has has had the opportunity 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:14.079 to cover, really national championships, Alabama's run, you know, so 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.520 many different things. We are really as much as I 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.559 just talked about some of the hard things, I think 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.880 we both know how incredibly lucky we are to do 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.000 what we do every day. Yeah, Doris, you took it 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.559 the next place I wanted to go, Holly, which was 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.839 the championship moments, and and that's why we love what 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.760 we do. And you guys have both had extraordinary opportunities 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.240 and done tremendous jobs at at being the first to 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.120 speak to someone who was won a championship was realized. 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.120 A dream has having a life moment, and it's still 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.160 very fresh and there you are with the microphone capturing 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.800 it and navigating through it, whether it's a trophy of 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.320 presentation in the NBA or or or on the field 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.240 that a college football championship, or or a Women's College 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.839 World Series or w n B A talk about that 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.480 just being right there and and and feeling the energy 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.800 sort of at the end of a championship arc. It's precious, right, 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:06.880 like we have the best seed in the house to 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.199 a very precious moment that will last in time forever. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.760 I remember interviewing steps And Bennett after the Georgia National 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.280 Championship game last year and and his emotion and he 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.000 had been sobbing on the sidelines, and just um interviewing 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.160 that young man. I remember interviewing Hunter Renfro from Clemson 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.360 after he catches the touchdown pass with one second left 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.520 to upset Alabama. You know, before it was even imaginable 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.640 that Clemson could upset Alabama, and um one of my 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.840 favorite postgame moments ever. And I think if people really 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.200 studied this as journalist, my favorite moment I've ever seen 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.200 was when Lebron had made the decision to go to 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.400 Miami and all of the scrutiny that came for that, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.560 and Doris interviewed him post game, and it will to 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.160 me be the single best question that's ever been asked 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.160 any postgame ever because in in two two words, you know, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:03.160 to two sentences, Doris wraps up leaving Cleveland making the 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.280 decision vindication to win a championship with Miami in this 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.200 one postgame question, and I think it will go down 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.040 as the best question ever asked in sports history. Do 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.920 you remember that question, Doris? I don't. I don't. I mean, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.520 I remember all of my interviews with Lebron because they've 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.720 been so pivotal. Holly, I'll never Chris. You know, we're 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.720 supposed to be impartial on biased observers, and we are, 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.960 but at the same time, we are not emote, emotionless 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:33.640 human beings, and this is not the question Holly's talking about. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.880 But when when Lebron went back to Cleveland and won 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.720 the title, if you remember distinctly, as soon as the 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.760 buzzer sounded, he had this well of emotional he started 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.080 to cry. And see Holly picked up on this, Mike 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.760 greenstat guy Dave Free picked up on this, but very 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.240 few people picked up on it. You know, you have 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.240 to remember, I have children right in the window of 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.640 these NBA players in terms of their age, and so 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.520 it's interesting for me because sometimes I view it through 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.840 the prism of my twenty eight year o son. You know, 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.080 it's weird because he's not you know, his seasoned golf 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.720 as his profession, but whatever. But but I remember watching 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.040 Lebron cry. Chris and Holly. I don't know if this 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:12.920 has ever happened to you. I would assume it is 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.720 because you are carrying emotional person. But like Chris, when 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.360 Lebron cried and he's shuddering and he's down on his knees, 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.920 I got choked up, like I can feel the water 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.280 in my eyes, and I'm thinking, oh my God, pull 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.280 yourself together. You gotta ask questions, and you could hear 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.480 my voice crack and whatever question I asked, and Dave 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.040 Free was the first person to set at my green stacks. 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.360 Were you crying? I said, I didn't cry, that's the 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.520 personal crying of basketball. But I was. And it was 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.480 really just about this man. This meant so much to him. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:52.000 All of us, know, anybody who covers sports. There is injury, 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.720 there is sadness, there's joy, there's collective spirit moving towards 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.400 this ultimate goal. But you pay a heavy price to 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.720 get there, and sometimes that bears down on you in 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:04.680 the in the midst of that, Holly, have you ever 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.800 had that happen where you you've gotten caught up in 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.280 the emotion. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I'm not always 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.040 proud of it because you're You're right, we're trying to 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.400 be unbiased journalists, but I am. You know me, I'm 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.359 a softie, and I've had it happened a couple of 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:21.080 times where, Um, I can remember Pat Summit had died 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.960 and Candice Parker, her beloved player for the Tennessee Balls, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.520 was playing in a w NBA game that night. Has 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.600 a tough comeback when and I interviewed Candice in the 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.080 post game and she just breaks down sobbing. Um, you 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.760 know that was for Pat. That was for Pat, and 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.159 that that got to me because Pat Summitt had just 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.280 died that day, and that one was really tough. I 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.720 don't think human if you do not feeling that. I mean, 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.639 we do this because we like human beings immediately, like 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.680 the competition in the strain, and we all like the 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.920 collective joy. But the other side that I'm talking about, 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.840 old Softie, I find myself being upset for the losers, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.240 the people on the other end of this. They're not 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.760 holding the trophy. They had their dreams crushed, and it's 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.880 it's it's also fresh in the moment and whether it's 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.280 in tennis, and yeah, you've seen I've covered Serena Williams 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.280 great moments. I've covered some heartbreaking moments. Same thing for 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.840 Roger Feder Rafael on the doll And you have a 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.280 feeling for these people because, like Lebron, you've seen a 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.040 lot of their arc You've seen them kind of grow 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.680 up and mature and man, I don't know, Yeah, I've 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.560 had to try to hold it together, not just for 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.280 the joy, but just the pain on the other side 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:32.760 of it when they they come short of their dream. Yeah, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.280 we're human, right when Super just retired. I really struggled. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.399 If you know me well and you go back and 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.639 listen to our interview, you can hear my voice. I 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.040 am struggling to interview her because I'm I turned to 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.440 look at Sue and she has a tear coming down 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.760 her face and she's like, this is really sad, and 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:53.800 I just I'm like, yes it is. I'm glad I 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.359 wasn't in London when Roger Federer just retired, because he's crying, 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.760 the dolls crying, everybody's cry. I don't think I would 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:02.479 have been able to keep it together. So I'm kind 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.800 of relieved they didn't have that assignment in some way. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:13.520 You know, the the love of sports can can be 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.560 passed down by generations. It can skip a generation. My 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:19.600 parents didn't know where I care about sports at all. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.240 My grandmother was the one who got me into it. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.919 I owe my career to her love and passion for sports. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.280 So you guys have referenced being moms. I wonder do 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.360 your kids share your passion for sports? Do you talk 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.119 sports with them or is it like mom, that's just 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.920 mom's work. We're over three. We're over three in that category. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:44.280 Her two children and my son, no, really, there's anything 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.320 wrong with that, Not that there's anything wrong with that. 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.720 My son's an actor in the theater, her daughter Sarah's 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.280 in the theater as an attorney. Her son Matthews in 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:58.640 the gulf. Like we're over three and it's hard, really, Doris, 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.000 you ever want to talk about nicole Yo kitchen? The 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:05.920 inverted pick and roll? And there's just enough. So, Uh, 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.840 my daughter, we joke all the time with her husband. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:14.040 She's like, pick and roll this, pick and roll that roll. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.159 My son is um a little more into it, you know, 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.760 so he'll he might. It's but it's the tree top 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.679 storylines you know that are being discussed on every talk show. Um, 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:28.960 and that's the direction he and I will go. But 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.280 it's so funny, yuh Ali. You know, I keep saying 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.320 to my daughter, who's just had her first baby, I'm like, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.560 you can expect one thing or another, but life is 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.240 going to take you where it's gonna take you, and 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.359 there's no predicting it, so be prepared. Well, maybe it's 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.080 a grandmother. You can get that that young child into 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.480 sports the way minded and give the great gift of 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.880 understanding the passion and the joy of this profession. Oh, 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:58.080 I literally cannot wait. I can I have a baseball glove, 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.959 I can catch, I can rebound with the best of them. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.120 Whatever Harris wants to do for I am there for him. Well, 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.200 we're having this conversation because Holly and I had a 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.359 dinner recently in Columbus on a nice Friday night dinner 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.680 which doesn't happened and often enough. Well, start talking about 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.920 traveling and Holly, you just mentioned that the two of 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.240 you travel together. Holly, and I don't know whether it 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.240 is a film on Louise, which is a reference that 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.600 only be able to a certain age to understand. I'm 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.159 imagining these two badass women road tripping around Europe. But 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.959 tell me, Holly, a travel story of you two guys, uh, 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.240 you know, away from sports and just enjoying what the 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.359 world has to offer. Yeah, we started traveling together about 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.600 ten years ago, and we've had some really good, um journeys. 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.360 I would say I have two really great I mean, 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.080