Speaker 1: Two women are road tripping through Europe, sharing laughs, stories
Speaker 1: and adventures as they wind through narrow back roads. They've
Speaker 1: been dear friends forever, celebrated together, supported and consoled each other.
Speaker 1: Both have faced obstacles and persevered and broken through barriers
Speaker 1: in the traditionally male industry, and now they are as
Speaker 1: acclaimed and respected in their roles as anyone. Writing Shotgun
Speaker 1: in the Little Rental Car is Doris Burke, the first
Speaker 1: female analyst for NBA games and first to call men's
Speaker 1: n ci A tournament games. For years, Doris also covered
Speaker 1: the Women's Championships and w n b A. Behind the
Speaker 1: wheel is Holly Row, my colleague and primetime college football broadcast,
Speaker 1: the National Championship Game and Heisman Trophy Show. When he's
Speaker 1: not working Utah Jazz games or the w NBA, Holly
Speaker 1: has covered just about everything in college sports over the
Speaker 1: last thirty years. So today I've got Doris Burke and
Speaker 1: Holly Row together and this is one of the most
Speaker 1: enjoyable conversations in our five seasons. A window into their
Speaker 1: friendship and achievements. It's like sitting in the back seat
Speaker 1: on one of their road trips. Well, Doris and Holly,
Speaker 1: I am so pleased to have us merged together on
Speaker 1: this call. Two broadcast icons are not only massively respected
Speaker 1: by the people they cover, who are the highest achievers,
Speaker 1: most successful people in sports, but also beloved by them,
Speaker 1: which is a difficult thing and a different thing. So
Speaker 1: what's that like, Holly, to be beloved by the people
Speaker 1: that you cover? Because I don't know that you don't
Speaker 1: know that feeling. I don't know that I'm beloved. I
Speaker 1: think people are very kind, and I think I've been
Speaker 1: doing it a long time. I think I learned. Uh,
Speaker 1: someone said something really sweet to me when I was
Speaker 1: going through my battle with cancer that, um, you've been
Speaker 1: coming into our living rooms. You've been a guest in
Speaker 1: our home for over twenty years, so of course we
Speaker 1: love you. So I thought that was a sweet way
Speaker 1: to say it is we're a guest in people's homes. Um,
Speaker 1: So I think that's part of it. But then I
Speaker 1: think you do go into respect. I always would feel
Speaker 1: so secretly pleased every time Doris was doing you know,
Speaker 1: the postgame championship, NBA Finals and Lebron's like, you know, well, Doris,
Speaker 1: you know, the highest of the high love and respect
Speaker 1: her and that always made me feel so proud. So
Speaker 1: I think it's just a lot of hard work and
Speaker 1: being good at your job where people respect your work ethic,
Speaker 1: but also having a good way about you. Chris can
Speaker 1: I can I tell a story that will documented exactly
Speaker 1: how beloved Holly row is this come back always. But
Speaker 1: Gail Guest and Corps at the time was the head
Speaker 1: coach at Duke and she has been a multiple final four.
Speaker 1: She's experiencing all kinds of success. And you know how
Speaker 1: it goes. You're you guys go to football practice, we
Speaker 1: go to basketball practice. I'll never forget this. The three
Speaker 1: of us are standing at mid court and Holly's relative
Speaker 1: not new to women's basketball because she had covered the
Speaker 1: w NBA should cover, but new to like covering the
Speaker 1: final four, and Gail is going to be in the
Speaker 1: final four. This you know, this is happening. And I
Speaker 1: don't remember what month it is, but I remember distinctly
Speaker 1: Holly looking Gail Guest in course directly in the Ian,
Speaker 1: saying to her, now, Gail, have you always been a
Speaker 1: control freak? And Gail's even a colored drain from it.
Speaker 1: I don't know which way to run, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden just the three of us burst out laughing.
Speaker 1: I have witnessed so many times over the years, Chris.
Speaker 1: They they love and respect that people have for not
Speaker 1: only Holly's work habits, but her passion for both the
Speaker 1: sports that she covers and the individual stories, um that
Speaker 1: she covers. And I think people can feel that, and
Speaker 1: I think they really appreciate that about Holly. Well, they
Speaker 1: appreciate that about YouTube doors. That's kind of you to
Speaker 1: say that about your friend. But I mean, whether it
Speaker 1: is Lebron or Papovitch or Kobe, the legends of coaching,
Speaker 1: that the highest basketball minds out there, they respect you.
Speaker 1: That's hard one. We'll get into that for both of you.
Speaker 1: But also the affection whether it's Drake or anybody else,
Speaker 1: I mean big stars, not just athletes and coaches. I
Speaker 1: mean that has to feel pretty darn good. Yeah, you know, um, Chris,
Speaker 1: I remember saying this before. Um, Holly and I were
Speaker 1: both established in our careers prior to the advent of
Speaker 1: social media, and it hasn't always been the case that
Speaker 1: you know this, There's been this feeling towards me. There
Speaker 1: was a long stretch of time where because I was
Speaker 1: an analyst on men's college and the NBA. There was
Speaker 1: this sentiment coming at me about who is she to
Speaker 1: say that she's never played or coach these sports. Obviously
Speaker 1: I coached women's basketball, played women's basketball. Um, and I've
Speaker 1: said this many times to the player in the coaches
Speaker 1: because they have been my soft landing spot. Chris and
Speaker 1: I've said this, and I said it to Drake Um
Speaker 1: when I finally met him after he put that picture
Speaker 1: on his shirt. You know, I said, I really appreciate
Speaker 1: that you expressed in your own way respect for my work.
Speaker 1: When you hear something's forign to your ear, what's your
Speaker 1: first response? We all pulled back from something's different. We
Speaker 1: don't know what this is, what to expect. And when
Speaker 1: I started, it was unusual, where now it's it's commonplace.
Speaker 1: Do you like how she just dropped that in there, like,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was talking to Drake, like it's
Speaker 1: just such a normal women crush every day. By the way,
Speaker 1: with a big face of Doris Burke, I'm surprised you
Speaker 1: haven't come up with your line of merchandise there with
Speaker 1: your face on. I do want to tell you one
Speaker 1: funny story, So I want to give my son mckaylan,
Speaker 1: who um, he is the one person in the world
Speaker 1: that adores Doris more than maybe her own children. So
Speaker 1: my son has been visiting miss Burke since he was
Speaker 1: fifteen years old, and he wore this Drake. Sure he
Speaker 1: did a post on social media coming into Doris Brooke's
Speaker 1: house for Thanksgiving like in any tax drink, and the
Speaker 1: very next week Drake posted about Doris. So I just
Speaker 1: want mkaylan to get a little credit doors. I just
Speaker 1: think he opened up the Drake floodgates a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys, you know, not exactly overnight successes
Speaker 1: racing around the basis to universal applause and the claim.
Speaker 1: I mean it has been Um, it has been a struggle.
Speaker 1: Doris talked about it. Holly. You come into a variety
Speaker 1: of sports, but college football might be one of the
Speaker 1: most I don't know, macho masculine, testosterone driven sports there is, right,
Speaker 1: and it's a sport not widely played by women, So
Speaker 1: you can understand if some neagraaphal mindsets are carrying the
Speaker 1: day early on. But but talk about just going into
Speaker 1: to this sport and having to win respect and show
Speaker 1: you know what you're talking about. Yeah, I had a
Speaker 1: couple of funny incidents early in my career, and um,
Speaker 1: I'll tell this story about this coach, but I don't
Speaker 1: want him to be disparsed. Remember my first feeling of
Speaker 1: I'm the woman in the meeting room was with an
Speaker 1: old defensive coordinator at Mississippi State named Jolie Dunn, and
Speaker 1: I asked a question based on a quote I had
Speaker 1: read from him, and he kind of looked up, like
Speaker 1: what and and then he answered to Rodney Gilmore and
Speaker 1: he wouldn't even look at me. I could just tell
Speaker 1: he was so uncomfortable for me to be in the
Speaker 1: room and talking and he would look away and answer
Speaker 1: someone else. So fast forward twenty years, and you know,
Speaker 1: Jolie Dunn and I are fast friends, and and every
Speaker 1: stop he's been at he comes and chats with me
Speaker 1: and we talk about his extensive video collection and his
Speaker 1: family and him, you know, him helping to create the
Speaker 1: the unique defense with five defensive bats. Um. So, I
Speaker 1: feel like those are the types of stories where they
Speaker 1: go in feeling like who's this? But you earn your
Speaker 1: way by being good at your job. I've asked plenty
Speaker 1: of dumb questions, but I think people know my desire,
Speaker 1: and I think they start to learn I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: college football. Like if I wasn't a woman, I would
Speaker 1: probably be at the highest level of being an analytic.
Speaker 1: No one has watched more college football other than maybe
Speaker 1: you and Kirk Herb Street, and in my lifetime, I
Speaker 1: can talk to you about label edwards. Um, all of
Speaker 1: the coaches that started that offense that then became the
Speaker 1: air raid offense, and how that happened with Don Kriel
Speaker 1: and then Mike Tleach stole the bay you passing around.
Speaker 1: I know how the zone read was invented. You know,
Speaker 1: like I know all this this information because I've lived
Speaker 1: college football for forty years now at the very most
Speaker 1: intense scrutiny level. So um, I feel like I've just
Speaker 1: earned it by people understand I'm obsessed with football and
Speaker 1: I can speak their language. So we can ask a
Speaker 1: trivia question every week in the booth, and Kirk and
Speaker 1: I were something how they knew the answer in the field.
Speaker 1: I wish you just buzzed in from the field because
Speaker 1: you could have saved our team to answer Chris Felika's
Speaker 1: trivia question, right, Doris, You know, there are just certain
Speaker 1: moments as a viewer, particularly a woman viewer, where it's
Speaker 1: really poignant. And for me, the moments where I see
Speaker 1: Holly row Say interview Nick Saban or Dabbo and it
Speaker 1: maybe a tough moment, and yet they stop, they take
Speaker 1: the time and they respectfully answer questions that sometimes aren't
Speaker 1: easy to answer or uncomfortable, and uh, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: go back to another moment. And there's some women in
Speaker 1: the business who are on the text Chaine Jasmindoza Holly
Speaker 1: Beth moments, the first time Beth moments called Monday Night Football.
Speaker 1: I remember this distinctly. I am in my home in
Speaker 1: Rhode Island and tears are streaming down my face because
Speaker 1: you couldn't be more right, Chris. Football to me, whether
Speaker 1: it's college football or the NFL, are two most popular
Speaker 1: sports in this country. When women achieve a measure of
Speaker 1: success in those particular fields of endeavor, it is so
Speaker 1: powerful to me. Um and it's just, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just for me. It's beautiful and it's fun. And then
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, my goodness, where is that next generation
Speaker 1: of women going to take us? Because you know what,
Speaker 1: what I admire about this next generation that Holly and
Speaker 1: I have spent our career and I kid you not,
Speaker 1: we talked about this all the time. We have spent
Speaker 1: our career thinking every year, this is our last. They're
Speaker 1: not going to give us another one. We're done, this
Speaker 1: is my last gig. And the next generation of women
Speaker 1: just know they belong um. There's no I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know whether like not that they don't face challenges,
Speaker 1: but there's a level of confidence to me that I
Speaker 1: just love about the women coming coming that are a
Speaker 1: little younger than us. I definitely want to circle back
Speaker 1: to that and the legacy that both you guys believe
Speaker 1: in the impact that you've had. Longevity is interesting, I
Speaker 1: don't think because you've both been asked about that, But
Speaker 1: longevity in this business doesn't happen, in my opinion, unless
Speaker 1: you just love the process. It can't just be about
Speaker 1: when the lights on, the games are going on. And
Speaker 1: both of you guys just divide our the process practices.
Speaker 1: You talked about that, Holly. The meetings are reading, watching tape.
Speaker 1: People don't know what goes into it. But I don't
Speaker 1: think if you don't embrace that part of it, we're
Speaker 1: not sitting here talking about decades of a career, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to love it. And and you know, I've
Speaker 1: had an interesting experience with Doris. We went to the
Speaker 1: London Olympics together in twelve as fans and it was
Speaker 1: so fun because we went to almost all the basketball
Speaker 1: We went to t m USA. That was the was
Speaker 1: that the Redeemed team Doris with Lebron and Kobe. I
Speaker 1: think that's the one they were just doing the documentary about, right,
Speaker 1: I think so. I remember us seeing Lebron on the
Speaker 1: subway platform in London, remember that, and fans are just
Speaker 1: mobbing in and we were like, what's up man? Hy
Speaker 1: But um the you know, I just think that the
Speaker 1: where we were sitting there watching games and Doris just
Speaker 1: loses herself in the basketball and it's like my friends gone,
Speaker 1: She's not there. She is so into basketball, and I
Speaker 1: keep I just never forget that that's her happy place.
Speaker 1: And it's the same way with football and Chris, I
Speaker 1: know for you for tennis, of like I get so
Speaker 1: lost in the action. I've seen my friend get so
Speaker 1: lost in the action that I know that's her happy place.
Speaker 1: That's my happy place. So it's the thing I'm most
Speaker 1: proud of in my career. To be perfectly honest with you, Chris,
Speaker 1: is the longevity. Um. You know, I started in a
Speaker 1: very small way when I left coaching, and I often
Speaker 1: joked like one of my biggest breaks is doing the
Speaker 1: w n b A on radio for the New York Liberty.
Speaker 1: There wasn't a person listening, not one. But I love
Speaker 1: the process because the travel, you know, being alone in
Speaker 1: the hotels and dinners on the rush and this and matter.
Speaker 1: If you don't love it, you're not gonna last because
Speaker 1: you're away from your family. I have two children, Um,
Speaker 1: I now have a grandson. Like Christmas Day will remain hard.
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve. I just booked my flight to Boston. Um,
Speaker 1: so there are challenges, but it is it's the love
Speaker 1: of sports that you cover and the people you cover.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. Think about some of the
Speaker 1: college football games Holly row has has had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to cover, really national championships, Alabama's run, you know, so
Speaker 1: many different things. We are really as much as I
Speaker 1: just talked about some of the hard things, I think
Speaker 1: we both know how incredibly lucky we are to do
Speaker 1: what we do every day. Yeah, Doris, you took it
Speaker 1: the next place I wanted to go, Holly, which was
Speaker 1: the championship moments, and and that's why we love what
Speaker 1: we do. And you guys have both had extraordinary opportunities
Speaker 1: and done tremendous jobs at at being the first to
Speaker 1: speak to someone who was won a championship was realized.
Speaker 1: A dream has having a life moment, and it's still
Speaker 1: very fresh and there you are with the microphone capturing
Speaker 1: it and navigating through it, whether it's a trophy of
Speaker 1: presentation in the NBA or or or on the field
Speaker 1: that a college football championship, or or a Women's College
Speaker 1: World Series or w n B A talk about that
Speaker 1: just being right there and and and feeling the energy
Speaker 1: sort of at the end of a championship arc. It's precious, right,
Speaker 1: like we have the best seed in the house to
Speaker 1: a very precious moment that will last in time forever.
Speaker 1: I remember interviewing steps And Bennett after the Georgia National
Speaker 1: Championship game last year and and his emotion and he
Speaker 1: had been sobbing on the sidelines, and just um interviewing
Speaker 1: that young man. I remember interviewing Hunter Renfro from Clemson
Speaker 1: after he catches the touchdown pass with one second left
Speaker 1: to upset Alabama. You know, before it was even imaginable
Speaker 1: that Clemson could upset Alabama, and um one of my
Speaker 1: favorite postgame moments ever. And I think if people really
Speaker 1: studied this as journalist, my favorite moment I've ever seen
Speaker 1: was when Lebron had made the decision to go to
Speaker 1: Miami and all of the scrutiny that came for that,
Speaker 1: and Doris interviewed him post game, and it will to
Speaker 1: me be the single best question that's ever been asked
Speaker 1: any postgame ever because in in two two words, you know,
Speaker 1: to two sentences, Doris wraps up leaving Cleveland making the
Speaker 1: decision vindication to win a championship with Miami in this
Speaker 1: one postgame question, and I think it will go down
Speaker 1: as the best question ever asked in sports history. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that question, Doris? I don't. I don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember all of my interviews with Lebron because they've
Speaker 1: been so pivotal. Holly, I'll never Chris. You know, we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be impartial on biased observers, and we are,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, we are not emote, emotionless
Speaker 1: human beings, and this is not the question Holly's talking about.
Speaker 1: But when when Lebron went back to Cleveland and won
Speaker 1: the title, if you remember distinctly, as soon as the
Speaker 1: buzzer sounded, he had this well of emotional he started
Speaker 1: to cry. And see Holly picked up on this, Mike
Speaker 1: greenstat guy Dave Free picked up on this, but very
Speaker 1: few people picked up on it. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to remember, I have children right in the window of
Speaker 1: these NBA players in terms of their age, and so
Speaker 1: it's interesting for me because sometimes I view it through
Speaker 1: the prism of my twenty eight year o son. You know,
Speaker 1: it's weird because he's not you know, his seasoned golf
Speaker 1: as his profession, but whatever. But but I remember watching
Speaker 1: Lebron cry. Chris and Holly. I don't know if this
Speaker 1: has ever happened to you. I would assume it is
Speaker 1: because you are carrying emotional person. But like Chris, when
Speaker 1: Lebron cried and he's shuddering and he's down on his knees,
Speaker 1: I got choked up, like I can feel the water
Speaker 1: in my eyes, and I'm thinking, oh my God, pull
Speaker 1: yourself together. You gotta ask questions, and you could hear
Speaker 1: my voice crack and whatever question I asked, and Dave
Speaker 1: Free was the first person to set at my green stacks.
Speaker 1: Were you crying? I said, I didn't cry, that's the
Speaker 1: personal crying of basketball. But I was. And it was
Speaker 1: really just about this man. This meant so much to him.
Speaker 1: All of us, know, anybody who covers sports. There is injury,
Speaker 1: there is sadness, there's joy, there's collective spirit moving towards
Speaker 1: this ultimate goal. But you pay a heavy price to
Speaker 1: get there, and sometimes that bears down on you in
Speaker 1: the in the midst of that, Holly, have you ever
Speaker 1: had that happen where you you've gotten caught up in
Speaker 1: the emotion. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I'm not always
Speaker 1: proud of it because you're You're right, we're trying to
Speaker 1: be unbiased journalists, but I am. You know me, I'm
Speaker 1: a softie, and I've had it happened a couple of
Speaker 1: times where, Um, I can remember Pat Summit had died
Speaker 1: and Candice Parker, her beloved player for the Tennessee Balls,
Speaker 1: was playing in a w NBA game that night. Has
Speaker 1: a tough comeback when and I interviewed Candice in the
Speaker 1: post game and she just breaks down sobbing. Um, you
Speaker 1: know that was for Pat. That was for Pat, and
Speaker 1: that that got to me because Pat Summitt had just
Speaker 1: died that day, and that one was really tough. I
Speaker 1: don't think human if you do not feeling that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we do this because we like human beings immediately, like
Speaker 1: the competition in the strain, and we all like the
Speaker 1: collective joy. But the other side that I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: old Softie, I find myself being upset for the losers,
Speaker 1: the people on the other end of this. They're not
Speaker 1: holding the trophy. They had their dreams crushed, and it's
Speaker 1: it's it's also fresh in the moment and whether it's
Speaker 1: in tennis, and yeah, you've seen I've covered Serena Williams
Speaker 1: great moments. I've covered some heartbreaking moments. Same thing for
Speaker 1: Roger Feder Rafael on the doll And you have a
Speaker 1: feeling for these people because, like Lebron, you've seen a
Speaker 1: lot of their arc You've seen them kind of grow
Speaker 1: up and mature and man, I don't know, Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: had to try to hold it together, not just for
Speaker 1: the joy, but just the pain on the other side
Speaker 1: of it when they they come short of their dream. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're human, right when Super just retired. I really struggled.
Speaker 1: If you know me well and you go back and
Speaker 1: listen to our interview, you can hear my voice. I
Speaker 1: am struggling to interview her because I'm I turned to
Speaker 1: look at Sue and she has a tear coming down
Speaker 1: her face and she's like, this is really sad, and
Speaker 1: I just I'm like, yes it is. I'm glad I
Speaker 1: wasn't in London when Roger Federer just retired, because he's crying,
Speaker 1: the dolls crying, everybody's cry. I don't think I would
Speaker 1: have been able to keep it together. So I'm kind
Speaker 1: of relieved they didn't have that assignment in some way.
Speaker 1: You know, the the love of sports can can be
Speaker 1: passed down by generations. It can skip a generation. My
Speaker 1: parents didn't know where I care about sports at all.
Speaker 1: My grandmother was the one who got me into it.
Speaker 1: I owe my career to her love and passion for sports.
Speaker 1: So you guys have referenced being moms. I wonder do
Speaker 1: your kids share your passion for sports? Do you talk
Speaker 1: sports with them or is it like mom, that's just
Speaker 1: mom's work. We're over three. We're over three in that category.
Speaker 1: Her two children and my son, no, really, there's anything
Speaker 1: wrong with that, Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 1: My son's an actor in the theater, her daughter Sarah's
Speaker 1: in the theater as an attorney. Her son Matthews in
Speaker 1: the gulf. Like we're over three and it's hard, really, Doris,
Speaker 1: you ever want to talk about nicole Yo kitchen? The
Speaker 1: inverted pick and roll? And there's just enough. So, Uh,
Speaker 1: my daughter, we joke all the time with her husband.
Speaker 1: She's like, pick and roll this, pick and roll that roll.
Speaker 1: My son is um a little more into it, you know,
Speaker 1: so he'll he might. It's but it's the tree top
Speaker 1: storylines you know that are being discussed on every talk show. Um,
Speaker 1: and that's the direction he and I will go. But
Speaker 1: it's so funny, yuh Ali. You know, I keep saying
Speaker 1: to my daughter, who's just had her first baby, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you can expect one thing or another, but life is
Speaker 1: going to take you where it's gonna take you, and
Speaker 1: there's no predicting it, so be prepared. Well, maybe it's
Speaker 1: a grandmother. You can get that that young child into
Speaker 1: sports the way minded and give the great gift of
Speaker 1: understanding the passion and the joy of this profession. Oh,
Speaker 1: I literally cannot wait. I can I have a baseball glove,
Speaker 1: I can catch, I can rebound with the best of them.
Speaker 1: Whatever Harris wants to do for I am there for him. Well,
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation because Holly and I had a
Speaker 1: dinner recently in Columbus on a nice Friday night dinner
Speaker 1: which doesn't happened and often enough. Well, start talking about
Speaker 1: traveling and Holly, you just mentioned that the two of
Speaker 1: you travel together. Holly, and I don't know whether it
Speaker 1: is a film on Louise, which is a reference that
Speaker 1: only be able to a certain age to understand. I'm
Speaker 1: imagining these two badass women road tripping around Europe. But
Speaker 1: tell me, Holly, a travel story of you two guys, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, away from sports and just enjoying what the
Speaker 1: world has to offer. Yeah, we started traveling together about
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and we've had some really good, um journeys.
Speaker 1: I would say I have two really great I mean,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of great memories. And this is
Speaker 1: kind of a fun thing because Doris keeps a journal
Speaker 1: everywhere we go. So we'll get to a new location
Speaker 1: and she'll buy a little notebook and so she has
Speaker 1: documented our meals are tours. Are you know We've gone
Speaker 1: on a mop head through Kianti and had a wine
Speaker 1: tour and then cooked at the end. Um we've we've gone.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of all the dramatic ones we've
Speaker 1: gone to Normandy together. I think that was maybe one
Speaker 1: of our most powerful trips stories, if you would agree
Speaker 1: with that. I think that was maybe one of our
Speaker 1: most powerful moments, is walking up the hill in Normandy
Speaker 1: and just weeping at the cemetery. I thought that was
Speaker 1: a special moment. I remember a roundabout in Paris where
Speaker 1: we were trying to I was driving. I have made
Speaker 1: the mistake of driving on many of these trips, and um,
Speaker 1: I remember us trying to get off that big famous
Speaker 1: roundabout in Paris and it took us like ten times.
Speaker 1: We're about ready to throw up because I can't merge
Speaker 1: over in the lane and We're going around this roundabout
Speaker 1: and it's getting scary and I'm like how. And then
Speaker 1: there was the time that I was driving in Porto
Speaker 1: Fino down these you know, back and forth Italian cliffs
Speaker 1: while I was putting on the story Chris Falor because
Speaker 1: she's not going to do it justice so we're coming
Speaker 1: back from province. Holly wanted to see the lavender field.
Speaker 1: I can't even but I think you're right. It's a
Speaker 1: windy road and obviously you know the sidometer is in
Speaker 1: kilometers and all I know is that sucker is tilted
Speaker 1: far right. Chris Fowler and anything those Holly row knows
Speaker 1: how much Muscara she puts on. He's got the thing
Speaker 1: full tilt to the right. And my girl is looking
Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror putting on m scara and
Speaker 1: I am losing my damn mind from a Scara two
Speaker 1: down and try. I could not believe what she was doing.
Speaker 1: I'll be damn that she didn't do it, Chris putting
Speaker 1: it on, going down the road. She's out of her mind, Holly.
Speaker 1: She was right to correct me in that moment. I
Speaker 1: was inappropriate, and so she has a certain tone in
Speaker 1: her voice that when she uses it it scares me.
Speaker 1: And I knew in that moment I was in trouble. Um.
Speaker 1: But we've had some really great trips. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: gone to Capri, We've gone to Portofino, Positano, like London,
Speaker 1: like Como. Oh my gosh, Venice are are walking wine
Speaker 1: tour in Venice was one of my favorite. You know,
Speaker 1: we went to the local places and had grafa and
Speaker 1: that was last. Um. My other favorite place we've gone,
Speaker 1: Doris was Most St. Michel off the coast of France,
Speaker 1: where it's his island out off the coast of France
Speaker 1: that when the tide comes in, you can't you couldn't
Speaker 1: access the island. And when the tide goes out, there
Speaker 1: was a walking road that you can walk out to
Speaker 1: the island and now they drive out to the island.
Speaker 1: And we stayed on that island Mont St. Michel, and
Speaker 1: that was one of the cooler nights I think we've
Speaker 1: ever had, Doris. What do you think? Yeah, I agree?
Speaker 1: And what what amazed me about that experiences We're sitting,
Speaker 1: we're we're sort of on a ledge in this medieval
Speaker 1: type village, showed stone walls everywhere, and we're out looking
Speaker 1: at the water and we have been warren. You know,
Speaker 1: don't be on the flats there when the water comes in, Chris.
Speaker 1: That water moves so fast that if you were not
Speaker 1: on dry land in a safe space, at a speed
Speaker 1: at which that water came into Mont St. Michel, and
Speaker 1: it's so funny because Mike Breen, obviously, you know, the
Speaker 1: great voice of the NBA Finals, um is, likes to
Speaker 1: travel and he had always tried or wanted to go
Speaker 1: to monts Michelle and couldn't believe we found a room there. Holly,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you did that. And then you
Speaker 1: mentioned Normandy Chris. Um. For anybody that that enjoys history, UM,
Speaker 1: you know you hear all these stories about D Day.
Speaker 1: We commemorated it every year. Um. When you see the
Speaker 1: topography there, when you are actually standing on the beach
Speaker 1: and then you tried to navigate your way up, you understand, um,
Speaker 1: what exactly happened on that particular day, and you marvel
Speaker 1: at the result of the Allies and they're just ire
Speaker 1: to to to conquer not only the topography, but to
Speaker 1: absorb the massive, massive losses that they did and continue
Speaker 1: on the journey to try to rescue you know, the world.
Speaker 1: It really And then after you've seen the topography, you
Speaker 1: then go to the to the space that they have
Speaker 1: set aside for the fallen soldiers, and you know it's
Speaker 1: it is dead quiet, like it is so silent and
Speaker 1: respectful and somehow beautiful in this space. Um, I would
Speaker 1: encourage anyone who has the opportunity to go and to
Speaker 1: do that. It is one of the most memorable things
Speaker 1: I've ever experienced. Yeah, that's perfectly said covering the French shop.
Speaker 1: And I've gone to Normandy a couple of times. And
Speaker 1: when you step away from the world of seeing a
Speaker 1: tennis ball smacked around at clay court and being absorbed
Speaker 1: in that silliness for a couple of weeks, and you
Speaker 1: you go to that that place, and I think that's
Speaker 1: the beauty of power of travel though you you have
Speaker 1: your spirit reawakened, you understand perspective and learned so much
Speaker 1: and am envious of all these trips you guys have taken.
Speaker 1: I mean, you clicked off some really beautiful spots around Europe.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious because you guys are both such, you know,
Speaker 1: tremendous preparers and planners. I imagine you so organized, Holly,
Speaker 1: is every second of these trips choreographed and planned out?
Speaker 1: To a tea or you'd like to get away from
Speaker 1: that world and just kind of wing it when you
Speaker 1: guys travel together. So we've done it both ways. Were
Speaker 1: early in our travels together, we made the mistake of
Speaker 1: over planning and hitting too many stops, and I remember
Speaker 1: I could, yes, I remember two times vividly Doris being like,
Speaker 1: all right, sister, I'm done with this. What the hell
Speaker 1: are you doing to me right now? Chinqui Terra? She
Speaker 1: was like we were on a train. I remember in
Speaker 1: Chinqua Terra and her just being like, I've seen enough,
Speaker 1: stop it. And then I learned from that that we
Speaker 1: we hit too many spots, you know, in one trip,
Speaker 1: and so we've learned. So this last uh A summer
Speaker 1: ago we went to Greece and we only hit two spots.
Speaker 1: So we've learned as we've traveled. So we only did
Speaker 1: anthants in Santorini and we kind of stayed put. But
Speaker 1: we did it in a fun way. Why I like
Speaker 1: really traveling with Doris is when we laugh our ass off.
Speaker 1: I mean we laugh and laugh and laugh. Um. But two,
Speaker 1: she's interested in the world, and so like I would
Speaker 1: give her an assignment. Hey, we're going to her cullennium.
Speaker 1: You're in charge of researching her cullennium, or I'm in
Speaker 1: charge of researching enormity, you know, so that that while
Speaker 1: someone's striving or while the person is going, you're you're
Speaker 1: reading to me or talking to me about what we're
Speaker 1: gonna see, where we're gonna go. So we tag team
Speaker 1: at which I've had found very fun and interesting. Like
Speaker 1: she'll say, all right, you're in charge of three these
Speaker 1: two nights for dinner in in EA on Santorini, and
Speaker 1: so I find us a place there, or the other
Speaker 1: two nights she's got us a wine tour, and so
Speaker 1: we really tag team and it's awesome. Um, she talks,
Speaker 1: she journals everything. So I one day, well, we need
Speaker 1: to publish these journals Doors, because we've we've had some
Speaker 1: interesting experiences. But then the other cool thing and we've
Speaker 1: done over the years that I thought was a good
Speaker 1: idea for travelers is when we start the trip, we'll
Speaker 1: put like two thousand euros in my Fannie pack and
Speaker 1: so we're not arguing over who's paying for dinner or
Speaker 1: who's paying for this taxi. We pool our our funds
Speaker 1: and then I just pay for everything out of the fanny.
Speaker 1: Like we've figured out some cool buddy system travel tips. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe in our old age, Doors, we'll have a show,
Speaker 1: a travel show. I'd watched that show. Come on, do
Speaker 1: you guys talk sports at all or or sports totally
Speaker 1: off limits? Or is TV totally off limits? Is that
Speaker 1: not part of the vacations. We talked about everything, everything, men,
Speaker 1: um sports. I mean it's fun. Doors says this all
Speaker 1: the time that you know you can count on one
Speaker 1: hand the people you can truly trust in the TV business,
Speaker 1: and I think that we trust each other. So we
Speaker 1: do talk a lot about work and navigate in our workplace.
Speaker 1: And hey, this happened to me. What do you think
Speaker 1: There's been many a late night I call her, this happened.
Speaker 1: What should I do? And She'll say, you can't say that.
Speaker 1: Stop it. You know, she's taken me off a couple
Speaker 1: alleges in my life. Um, but we talked about everything
Speaker 1: terms the Luxembourg garden story, Doris, Oh my god, that
Speaker 1: was one of the hardest times I have ever laughed
Speaker 1: in my life, and for for the longest duration. Now listen, Chris,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just I'll start the story and she can
Speaker 1: finish it. So we're in the Luxembourg gardens and uh,
Speaker 1: this is a rare time that we well, we didn't
Speaker 1: even plan that we were going to stay put for
Speaker 1: so long, but on every single trip we take, we
Speaker 1: have we go in with an idea of there's going
Speaker 1: to be a cocktail that is essentially the theme of
Speaker 1: the trip, and in France it was the care Royale
Speaker 1: for for obvious reasons. Champagne is never a bad idea.
Speaker 1: And if you want to spruce it up with a
Speaker 1: little raspberry, look for that's okay. And so we order
Speaker 1: a cure Royale because there's a beautiful cafe in the
Speaker 1: middle of the garden and it's it's massive and beautiful
Speaker 1: and there are people everywhere doing their thing, walking, babies
Speaker 1: with strollers, couples hand in hand, you name it. We
Speaker 1: order a cure Royale. Off comes the waiter. About ten
Speaker 1: minutes later, would you ladies like another? And I mean,
Speaker 1: we don't have missed a beat, of course, and existing
Speaker 1: lin however, he says it in this French accent, I
Speaker 1: won't even try. But he said, perhaps you should order
Speaker 1: the bottle. He did and it wasn't one. How do
Speaker 1: you speak French? You probably did the ordering on that trip.
Speaker 1: I did. Um well, I mean you, guys, I appreciate
Speaker 1: and enjoy both of your persona's on the air and Holly,
Speaker 1: I obviously no from working doors, I don't know the
Speaker 1: last time we were in the same building. But I
Speaker 1: imagine that this is a great collaboration traveling and just
Speaker 1: in general and as a friendship because you aren't the
Speaker 1: same Doris. You have a kind of a Northeast can
Speaker 1: I say, g I mean kind of that that person
Speaker 1: Holliday like the dead mother to all of color sports?
Speaker 1: Is it a nice mix? But contrast to personalities in
Speaker 1: this friendship and your conversations in your travels, Doris, what
Speaker 1: how do you have me saved in your phone? That
Speaker 1: might explain it? Oh my gosh, this is perfect. Glinda,
Speaker 1: you are you familiar? Yes, the good witch and the
Speaker 1: good which from wicked, the happy, the always upbeat. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, she's just such a good spirit. I've said
Speaker 1: this before and and you know this, Chris, you know
Speaker 1: the chemistry can't be seged. A good broadcast team hits
Speaker 1: the listener's ear easy, Um, and you you can't manufacture it.
Speaker 1: It exists or it does not. And part of what
Speaker 1: makes a great team is, Yes, you have to have
Speaker 1: people who know what they're doing and know what's important
Speaker 1: in the telecast, but you also have to have great teammates.
Speaker 1: It's about teammate skills. You know, the viewer doesn't know
Speaker 1: how many people contribute to your Saturday college football telecast.
Speaker 1: You have the best of the best in positions across
Speaker 1: the board, camera, takeum, on air, talent, producer, director, you
Speaker 1: name it, and every single one of those people has
Speaker 1: to do their job well. And if one falls short
Speaker 1: at some point, maybe the viewer doesn't feel it, but
Speaker 1: you all will step off as telecast and got maybe
Speaker 1: we could have done this or that better. What I've
Speaker 1: always appreciated about Holly is I think she's one of
Speaker 1: the best teammates I've ever had in a telecast. It's
Speaker 1: about what is good for the broadcast, and and if
Speaker 1: she expresses frustration, it's from a good place because she
Speaker 1: wants the viewer to feel as we feel so fortunate
Speaker 1: to be watching UM and so it's so interesting people
Speaker 1: perception of me. I think Holly would tell you, like
Speaker 1: you said, edgy, I find that hysterical because I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm the nicest person in the world. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. Edgy doesn't mean not nice. It
Speaker 1: just means you're book Providence Northeast. It's just a different
Speaker 1: it's a different place than Utah, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not offended, Chris. I actually it's just so funny, right,
Speaker 1: And this goes to what Holly said about we come
Speaker 1: into your living rooms, but you never know how the
Speaker 1: viewer is feeling you or accepting you, or whatever the
Speaker 1: case may be. And I think all of us, you know,
Speaker 1: regardless of what anybody says, every announcer wants to be like, yes,
Speaker 1: you want to be highly competent, and not everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: not every announcer is for everybody. I know, I have
Speaker 1: my favorites. You probably have your favorites that you enjoy
Speaker 1: listening to. But yeah, absolutely Edgy's a Jersey girl. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I understand. I've been called I've been called overly intense. Edge.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you are misunderstood. That's that you
Speaker 1: take a serious approach to your job, be a very
Speaker 1: high standards for yourself. You want to meet them. If
Speaker 1: you don't, it bothers you. You want to be surrounded,
Speaker 1: as you said, by other people who have high standards.
Speaker 1: And and we're fortunate in our football broadcast as you are.
Speaker 1: You know, the Krendla Krema in the NBA world. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, it could be misinterpreted as being like, you know,
Speaker 1: one lane or intense or edgy or even sometimes but
Speaker 1: there's there's no time for politeness all the time. Even
Speaker 1: Hollywood agree with that. No, she's taught me a lot.
Speaker 1: She's taught me a lot. So Number one, she taught
Speaker 1: me the effort. I never ever see the effort in
Speaker 1: my life. Never. I would cringe every time I heard it.
Speaker 1: And then I got to be good friends with Doris,
Speaker 1: and I distinctly remember we went out to visit her
Speaker 1: and her family. We get home to Utah and my
Speaker 1: son starts saying the F word left and right, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can't. We do not say that word
Speaker 1: in our home, young man. And he's like, well, Mrs
Speaker 1: Burke says it. So um, she has taught me there's
Speaker 1: a good time in an appropriate moment and dropped that
Speaker 1: net bomb, and uh, she's also taught me to not
Speaker 1: let people walk over you, like sometimes you have to
Speaker 1: stick up for yourself. And I think that that's a
Speaker 1: good skill that she saw me. We can say podcast tours,
Speaker 1: but I thank you for not drowing. Probably just reacted
Speaker 1: right there. You're disreacted with horror. We're not regulated by
Speaker 1: the FCC. It is my worst quality. I am profane.
Speaker 1: I am not proud of it. I've tried many times
Speaker 1: and these strategies to stop cursing. It is just part
Speaker 1: of my lexicon. And I will say this sometimes Chris, like,
Speaker 1: don't you agree there's no other word? What the F word?
Speaker 1: That is appropriate to the moment? So yes, and it's
Speaker 1: appropriate to so many moments. But uh, but thank you
Speaker 1: for not making it an F bomb fest here because
Speaker 1: people might get a little horrified. I want to shift gears.
Speaker 1: How you you have inspired so many people in so
Speaker 1: many ways, but one confronting cancer, which was melanoma. You
Speaker 1: did that in a rather quiet way. And then when
Speaker 1: cancer came back and tumors were discovered in your lung
Speaker 1: and you band through that. I mean I know that
Speaker 1: that you were shower with love and appreciated what you
Speaker 1: do for living in a different way because of the
Speaker 1: way that your work could touch people and the energy
Speaker 1: they get back to you. How has that forever sort
Speaker 1: of changed your perspective? Coming through that, the horrors and
Speaker 1: the fears of of a grave cancer diagnosis, you know
Speaker 1: it changes you forever. I feel like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I was stage four metastatic cancer which is a deadly diagnosis.
Speaker 1: And I've been very lucky that immunotherapy has saved my life. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's changed me forever because I live better, I'm
Speaker 1: more joyful, I am a bucket list and I think
Speaker 1: Doris can tell you, I'm I can do some crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, we're that's it, We're skinny dipping and capri.
Speaker 1: We're going for it. We're gonna live life large. Um.
Speaker 1: I think my given F. I don't want to say it,
Speaker 1: but given you know given F filter is off from
Speaker 1: cancer because you just learned that of your life. Um.
Speaker 1: But I do want to take this second because I
Speaker 1: don't know if I've ever told her this, and I
Speaker 1: will cry if I say it. But Uh, when my
Speaker 1: cancer returned and it had spread and it was looking
Speaker 1: pretty scary, Doris had said to me, have you contacted
Speaker 1: the V Foundation. We have resources at the ESPN. You
Speaker 1: need to contact the V Foundation. And she called Carol Stiff,
Speaker 1: who is a woman that worked at our company for
Speaker 1: a long time. And Carol got me on the phone
Speaker 1: that day with the executive director Susan Braun of the
Speaker 1: V Foundation, and they got me into the top melanoma
Speaker 1: doctor in the world works that U c l A.
Speaker 1: Dr Antoni Ribas and he has saved my life with
Speaker 1: a clinical trial in immunotherapy. And so I don't want
Speaker 1: to overstate this, but Doris, I never would have thought
Speaker 1: to call the v Foundation. I never would have thought
Speaker 1: to reach out and have someone help me like that.
Speaker 1: So you know, my friend has been there through it.
Speaker 1: We've laughed our asses off, we have laughed and laughed,
Speaker 1: Our kids love each other, We've had a great relationship.
Speaker 1: But she has helped saved my life. Now do you
Speaker 1: how do you say thanks to a friend for that?
Speaker 1: Because I would have never called. I would have never
Speaker 1: gotten that help with our Chris, like you just talked
Speaker 1: about how beloved Hollie is. I don't think what people
Speaker 1: realize is you know how tough she is. You look
Speaker 1: at Holly how to Hollie five three five three, Um,
Speaker 1: that's one tough package of five three inches tall and
Speaker 1: what she did for the love of her sports in
Speaker 1: the midst of it. I mean, she's on chemotherapy and
Speaker 1: she's told a couple of stories about being in a
Speaker 1: hotel room. And I'll be honest with you, Chris, I
Speaker 1: don't know how a woman with Holly's travel schedule could
Speaker 1: maintain the standards she did while she's literally fighting to
Speaker 1: save her life. You know, you see those video footages
Speaker 1: of Stuart Scott who we all miss and him in
Speaker 1: kickboxing or m m A training in the midst of it,
Speaker 1: and you're just marvel at people's toughness and grip and
Speaker 1: desire to survive. Just say, hollyrow is one of the
Speaker 1: toughest people I know, one of the kind is, certainly,
Speaker 1: but one of the toughest people I know to it.
Speaker 1: Pulled through that, and I mean stage four is stage four,
Speaker 1: Stage four, Chris, you have to be covering sports. I
Speaker 1: believe it was the day before one surgery, Hilley, and
Speaker 1: then you're covering the w n b A in and
Speaker 1: around treatment. How how did you do that? You know?
Speaker 1: I think you and I were talking about this at
Speaker 1: dinner the other night, about what keeps you going in life,
Speaker 1: and I look back on it now and I feel
Speaker 1: like I was a complete psycho. But I felt like
Speaker 1: getting two games kept me living. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how to explain that any other way. That if I
Speaker 1: wit and I sat on my couch and felt sorry
Speaker 1: for myself, I thought I was going to die, and
Speaker 1: I just had to keep going and improve to myself
Speaker 1: that I could get to that event and I could
Speaker 1: get it done because that's where my joy was. Like
Speaker 1: being at the game was where my joy is. And
Speaker 1: um gosh, I look back on it now, I really
Speaker 1: don't know how I did it. You know, there were
Speaker 1: times I could barely walk because my chemotherapy was impacting
Speaker 1: my feet and my joints, and you know, I would
Speaker 1: I would stagger off the sideline thinking I can't walk.
Speaker 1: Tonight I can't walk. But I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: want to sound like I did something great. There's people
Speaker 1: going through a lot worse than I did, But I
Speaker 1: do hope that it gives people inspiration. It's like, you
Speaker 1: just have to keep going. And I don't know how
Speaker 1: to say it any clearer than that is, whatever your
Speaker 1: piece of joy and whatever you find joy doing, you
Speaker 1: have to keep finding it or or it gets really
Speaker 1: hard in those moments. But every single person that expresses
Speaker 1: that and lives that the way that you did does
Speaker 1: give other people strength, And so thank you for that gift.
Speaker 1: We're wrapping up. We're not wrapping up. We're kind of
Speaker 1: in the middle of our college football season, but we're
Speaker 1: headed towards the home stretch doors. You were just launching
Speaker 1: into the NBA season, which isn't what eight months sort
Speaker 1: of marathon. There's really no other seasons where it's quite
Speaker 1: like it. Are Are you ready for the I don't
Speaker 1: want to call it grind because that makes it feel
Speaker 1: like it's not fun, But you know there are times
Speaker 1: when it's I'm sure it's a test of stamina and
Speaker 1: midst all the other joys that you get for a
Speaker 1: long season that's going to wrap up with you covering
Speaker 1: the finals. Yeah, I don't know, It's been several years
Speaker 1: since I've been this excited, and I think it goes
Speaker 1: to several things. It certainly goes to you know, we're
Speaker 1: as close to normal as we can be. We're finally
Speaker 1: you know, courtside, we're finally requesting players to sit down
Speaker 1: with this pregame, and you know that's so critical to
Speaker 1: what we do, the opportunity to speak face to face
Speaker 1: and get the perspective the players and then be able
Speaker 1: to share that. And and I do think, you know,
Speaker 1: from a talent perspective, the league is an incredible hand um.
Speaker 1: You know, Lebron's pursuit of Kareem Abdul Jabbar's all time
Speaker 1: scoring mark, which many people thought, you know, it's not
Speaker 1: possible to attain. How does Golden State whether the indelible
Speaker 1: image of um you know, him punching Jordan Pool in
Speaker 1: the face. You know, they're the defending champion, they have
Speaker 1: this incredible window. But that changes a team, and what
Speaker 1: does that look like. I'm on a flight Wednesday night
Speaker 1: to Golden State. My game's Friday, but I need to
Speaker 1: be at practice and in the facility on Thursday to feel,
Speaker 1: to feel what's happening there. And so, hey, I I
Speaker 1: can't wait, Chris. I'm I'm you know, can't wait. And
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel ill. I will look up and it
Speaker 1: will be February and the playoffs will be, you know,
Speaker 1: six weeks away, and the enthusiasm will go off the
Speaker 1: charts again. And so I can't wait. I absolutely cannot wait.
Speaker 1: And how you work the jazz game, so there's no
Speaker 1: break for you. We we we shut it down. College
Speaker 1: football used to die right into about three or four
Speaker 1: more are sports. I mean, it's really kind of it
Speaker 1: feels like it's around the calendar for you almost Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm lucky. I have my first men's college basketball game.
Speaker 1: We've got the Champs Classic with National Champs Kansas coming
Speaker 1: up in two weeks I think two and a half weeks,
Speaker 1: and then women's basketball. My one of my first big
Speaker 1: women's games is Yukon Notre Dame, which is going to
Speaker 1: like this year, that's going to be a really big game,
Speaker 1: and then NBA. So, I mean, I'm addicted to sports.
Speaker 1: I just feel like, instead of apologizing for it anymore,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to embrace it. Yes I'm crazy and
Speaker 1: I'm a psycho, but i just really love what i'm doing.
Speaker 1: What would Field saying, find do what you love, and
Speaker 1: you'll never work a day in your life. It's just
Speaker 1: not work. To me, it's fun. It's still crazy, Chris.
Speaker 1: I've heard you say you never work a day in
Speaker 1: your life. I get that in that we love our jobs,
Speaker 1: but I don't say that it's not work. It's hard
Speaker 1: ass work sometimes to get into the plane. And I mean,
Speaker 1: you know you're you're studying a subject you love, but
Speaker 1: you're still working. I'm I'm gonna try to adopt more
Speaker 1: that attitude, Holly, But I get what you're saying. I
Speaker 1: don't know how she keeps up with it. Chris, Like,
Speaker 1: I remember giving up the w n b A and
Speaker 1: women's college basketball and being like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is awful. I'm not a part of it. One of
Speaker 1: my funnest periods of all time was Holly Dave O'Brien
Speaker 1: and I calling the women's national championship for like ten years,
Speaker 1: and it was one of the most special times in
Speaker 1: my life. But then I now have a little bit
Speaker 1: of work, like balance, and I can cover just the
Speaker 1: thirty teams the NBA, And meanwhile she's making me feel
Speaker 1: like a slouger. She makes us all feel that way
Speaker 1: at all. I want to talk about a word that
Speaker 1: as you get to a certain age, you begin to
Speaker 1: think about it a little bit. You don't obsess with it,
Speaker 1: But that's that's legacy. And you, guys, by being so
Speaker 1: excellent for so long, by breaking through barriers, by setting examples,
Speaker 1: by expanding people's idea, specifically women's idea of what is possible,
Speaker 1: we'll leave a legacy. So I'd like to allow yourselves
Speaker 1: to think about that for a little bit. Whether it's
Speaker 1: this generation Doris, you mentioned people who are coming up
Speaker 1: in the business maybe they were in college, maybe they're
Speaker 1: just starting out, maybe they are younger than that. Maybe
Speaker 1: they're the daughters of those women. And it's not just women,
Speaker 1: it's guys too. The inspiration and the legacy for a
Speaker 1: number of generations to follow. Just because you're doing what
Speaker 1: you love and doing it so well for so long,
Speaker 1: can you can you just reflect on that for a second, Holly,
Speaker 1: and allow yourself. I think Doris will be better than
Speaker 1: me at this because I think she is very aware
Speaker 1: of her responsibility as the first. We've had a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations of you know, she's the first to be
Speaker 1: calling NBA games on ESPN as an analyst, and I
Speaker 1: think there there is a bearing of responsibility and a
Speaker 1: weight that comes with that. I hope that my legacy.
Speaker 1: I don't think about it often, but I do hope
Speaker 1: my legacy will be um that you can do it.
Speaker 1: I am just like the world's most normal you know,
Speaker 1: maybe nothing special about me, normal girl from Bountiful, Utah.
Speaker 1: Not the prettiest, not the smartest, not that not that
Speaker 1: anything ust, but worked hard, loved her job and did
Speaker 1: it at a really high level. Is that you can
Speaker 1: do it? I hope that's my legacy to a lot
Speaker 1: of people. If you love it, you can do it,
Speaker 1: put the work in, and and maybe also teaching young
Speaker 1: people how to work. I think that young the younger generation,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to use the world entitled, but
Speaker 1: we're still grinding. I mean, if you still I think people, Chris,
Speaker 1: if they saw your work. You said something to me
Speaker 1: the other day. I found fascinating fifty hours of work
Speaker 1: that you put in a week for a four our
Speaker 1: football game. Young people need to know how to work,
Speaker 1: and that's a legacy. And teaching people. You know, you
Speaker 1: had some young men on our bus that you're trying
Speaker 1: to teach them how to do play by playing what
Speaker 1: your job is. I think that's a legacy that we
Speaker 1: all owe to the next generation, is mentoring and helping.
Speaker 1: But Doras you speak to it better because like you've
Speaker 1: there bore in a great responsibility with your your platform.
Speaker 1: Now I want to just want to follow up on
Speaker 1: something he said. For you, it's been about the work.
Speaker 1: But I think the other thing that you've done is
Speaker 1: you've had this incredible grit, which maybe you know, according
Speaker 1: to people in research, the most important determinant of long
Speaker 1: term success. Because I don't know how many years it
Speaker 1: took you to get to the number one spot on
Speaker 1: college football, but probably longer than maybe it should have
Speaker 1: for a variety of different reasons that women face in
Speaker 1: this business. Um, But the fact is, you never stopped
Speaker 1: working through every disappointment, you know, through every time you
Speaker 1: were not given that number one position on the college
Speaker 1: football despite your love and passion and knowledge and all
Speaker 1: those things. So I would just say, I think grit
Speaker 1: is part of your legacy, and it speaks to success
Speaker 1: in the business. I don't give it some much thought,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, Chris, I just love basketball.
Speaker 1: It has shaped my life since I was seven years old,
Speaker 1: and I think about sometimes is because I do know
Speaker 1: there were many people who paved the way before I came.
Speaker 1: Robin Roberts, you know, Jackie McMullen sitting on the sideline
Speaker 1: and next to red hour back and hearing some things
Speaker 1: over there. So I'm not the first, and I certainly
Speaker 1: haven't experienced some of the ugliness that women before me did.
Speaker 1: The only thing I would say is, you know, because
Speaker 1: I am an analyst in those spots, I just I
Speaker 1: would like to think and hopefully the path of the
Speaker 1: person who does it after me maybe is a little
Speaker 1: bit easier because I've done it well enough. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying that I didn't make the path of
Speaker 1: somebody behind me harder because that would break my heart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, legacy, you get wrapped up
Speaker 1: an ego if you think about it. So I appreciate
Speaker 1: that neither of you'd really spend much time on that.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the present and what it took to
Speaker 1: get here. I was simply talking about what it might
Speaker 1: mean in the future to some young girl to say,
Speaker 1: Holly Road, Doris Burke. You know, I remember them when
Speaker 1: I was a little girl. They made it seem like
Speaker 1: things are possible. All things are possible if I do
Speaker 1: work hard, if I do bring authentic passion to some things.
Speaker 1: So that's what I think is undeniable. You guys are
Speaker 1: not gonna probably acknowledge that. Holly, you are way too
Speaker 1: modest in your assessment. Your message is powerful, but you're
Speaker 1: way too modest. But I think there's going to be uh,
Speaker 1: I know there's going to be women and young young
Speaker 1: guys too who will look at your example and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what that was so important to me? In
Speaker 1: an early stage. So I had a cool thing happened
Speaker 1: Saturday at our game, Chris. I was at Florida State
Speaker 1: and this young man who is delivering the footballs into
Speaker 1: the game on the sideline for Clemson and Florida State
Speaker 1: um asked if he could meet me, and he said,
Speaker 1: I've been watching you my whole life. And I said
Speaker 1: how old are you? And he said, I'm twenty two
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, this is my twenty seventh
Speaker 1: year doing college football. He literally has watched me on
Speaker 1: college football his entire life. And I love that that
Speaker 1: needs something to him and he wants to meet me.
Speaker 1: That that made me feel really good. I think that
Speaker 1: that's something that all three of us should be proud of,
Speaker 1: is we have been the voice of the sports that
Speaker 1: all that this generation has heard their whole life. You know,
Speaker 1: we've all been in it now twenty five plus years,
Speaker 1: all three of us. And so you think of the
Speaker 1: legacy of where the voice they hear on college football.
Speaker 1: You're the voice they hear on tennis, Chris Doris, You're
Speaker 1: in the NBA game. Most of these kids grew up
Speaker 1: hearing you in the NBA two K game. That's a
Speaker 1: that's a compliment and an honor that their whole lives,
Speaker 1: we get to be the narrators to their sports experience
Speaker 1: and that's a great obligation but also great honor. You know, Chris,
Speaker 1: you mentioned as the spaces we're in they don't like
Speaker 1: because we've been there so long, we've worn their ass out,
Speaker 1: so to speak, Chris, like, they just accept that we're
Speaker 1: part of their sports experience. And I will say, for
Speaker 1: both genders, that's really really cool. Well you guys, I say,
Speaker 1: I said, I've used the word overused probably the word
Speaker 1: inspires for so many, so many different ways. But this friendship,
Speaker 1: this conversation you've had, the stories, the laughs that tears.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that as well, because
Speaker 1: I think it's inspiring to see people who who love
Speaker 1: each other and carry for each other so much and
Speaker 1: share so much in common and even though they're you're
Speaker 1: different people. So thank you for that gift today, guys.
Speaker 1: And it's been a it's been a pleasure and honor
Speaker 1: and and uh, I can't thank you enough. Thanks Chris,
Speaker 1: thanks for having us, Thanks for having us, Holly and Doris,
Speaker 1: your ef and welcome. That was so much fun for me.
Speaker 1: I'm just grateful we could align their very busy schedules.
Speaker 1: And isn't it important to have supportive, enduring friendships where
Speaker 1: you can just talk about personal and professional challenges and
Speaker 1: just laugh like Holly and Dorris do. Thanks as always
Speaker 1: to Jennifer Dempster, my co executive producer, and the team
Speaker 1: at Octagon who editor episodes. I'll talk to you soon
Speaker 1: with another season five episode of Fowler. Who You Got