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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm truly decklass Julie

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Speaker 1: who is not dreamed of either having wings themselves or

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Speaker 1: just dreams of winged humanoids flying about. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: the stuff of just ancient myth, the stuff of fantasy,

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Speaker 1: the stuff of religion, the stuff of of art. It's

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Speaker 1: there's something just irresistible about the idea of a human

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Speaker 1: with the wings of a bird, or even the wings

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Speaker 1: of a bat. Yeah. The desire to fly, I think

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Speaker 1: is pretty universal. Even Dorothy from oz right somewhere of

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Speaker 1: the rainbow, bluebirds fly, birds fly over the rainbow? Why then,

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Speaker 1: oh why can't I Yeah, we're just singing the rest, Okay,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, one example that always comes to my mind.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of a iconic ones. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the myth of Icarus and Datalus is big. The idea

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Speaker 1: that you know, they built these wings and then they

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Speaker 1: fly too close to the sun and then they plummet.

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Speaker 1: It's just a fantastic metaphor for so much in human endeavor,

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Speaker 1: human technology, um humans reaching to achieve things that they

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Speaker 1: were not necessarily biologically gifted with, but via their intelligence,

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Speaker 1: are in a sense genetically gifted with. I also think

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Speaker 1: back to a book called Goodbye to All That by

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Speaker 1: Robert Graves, British author who famously wrote I Claudius Um.

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Speaker 1: That's probably what he's most known for, But this was

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Speaker 1: his biography and he was talking about his um, his

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Speaker 1: service in World War One. There's a bit about mountain

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Speaker 1: climbing in that as well, because he was one of

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Speaker 1: these just really adventurous dudes. He'd go out with his

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Speaker 1: his pals and they would scale these these towering cliffs.

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Speaker 1: And there was one point where he's talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: clinging to the side of this this rock face. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, pretty to someone like me, who is not

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Speaker 1: a mountain climber and will never mountain climb, terrifying idea,

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Speaker 1: just to imagine myself clinging to the side of a

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Speaker 1: mountain face. Uh. But he was unfazed. But he was

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Speaker 1: an adventuest dude, had bravery and just a natural inclination

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Speaker 1: for this kind of thing. But one time he said,

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Speaker 1: they're scaling, they're they're a little tired clinging to the side,

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Speaker 1: and a bird like sort of flow flies by, but

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Speaker 1: given the altitude and the wind, kind of floats out

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Speaker 1: there to the side, and and he entered the house

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Speaker 1: just so unnerving. The idea that it was like the

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Speaker 1: bird was was coaxing him into letting go, as if

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Speaker 1: there was another way, as if he could fly, which

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Speaker 1: which also gets into these weird impulses we sometimes have

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Speaker 1: of almost like self destructive impulses. The the idea that, oh,

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Speaker 1: if I get too close to the edge of the building,

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Speaker 1: I might jump off, I was to say, because I

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Speaker 1: have that. So even if I meant to say, like

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Speaker 1: a fairly like simple structure like a mall on the

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Speaker 1: second floor, I don't want to go to the edge

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Speaker 1: because I feel as if I'm going to plunge off.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting that there's this idea of him,

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Speaker 1: you know, clinging to the side and this bird short

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Speaker 1: of mocking him to the limits of his own morphology.

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Speaker 1: Hey dude, you're never going to have wings. You might

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Speaker 1: consure this cool that you can you know, rock climb

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Speaker 1: up here, but you know, let me just buzz around

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Speaker 1: you and remind you of this. Yeah, it's like, in

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Speaker 1: a sense, we see the birds flying and we we

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Speaker 1: inded it, and we feel to a certain extent like

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Speaker 1: it's our birthright because vast empty air, vast heights are

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Speaker 1: terrifying because we know that that's a limitation to us.

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Speaker 1: We know that those are those are heights that we

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Speaker 1: cannot really ascend to. Yes, we there, you know. We

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Speaker 1: we have airplanes at our disposal. We have various uh

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Speaker 1: methods of flight and gliding and skydiving and everything, but

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Speaker 1: they're all kind of cheap imitations of the natural biological

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Speaker 1: gifts of a bird. That's right, We're greedy. We want

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Speaker 1: it for ourselves. It's not enough that we have created

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Speaker 1: flight in the form of jets and planes and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, various other modes of transportation. So the question,

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Speaker 1: and the question for this podcast is is it would

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Speaker 1: it be possible? Is it really possible that we could

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Speaker 1: somehow create wings for ourselves? Um? And I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: just like strapping on some wings, because there are wingsuits

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Speaker 1: which are phenomenal. There's actually an article on them on

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com that I wrote how wingsuits

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Speaker 1: work and it's phenomenal technology and the people who use

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Speaker 1: them are insane and also highly skilled. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: could we actually have biological wings that are a part

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Speaker 1: of us, that are an extension of us. Right, could

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Speaker 1: we gain our bodies in our minds in order to

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Speaker 1: actually have this be a part of our own morphology?

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Speaker 1: And why not? Right, because we've talked about this, this

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Speaker 1: is this is not so crazy. I mean, it's absolutely

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Speaker 1: out there. But there are so many different ways that

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Speaker 1: we have augmented our reality in our physicality that uh,

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Speaker 1: no doubt one day this could be a possibility. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like you said, there's so many things we

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Speaker 1: do to our bodies. Anyway, we went into this, We've

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Speaker 1: got into this a number of times. We talked about

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Speaker 1: post humanism quite a bit, and and cybernetics. We did

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Speaker 1: an episode called the Werewolf Principle Um, which probably wasn't

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Speaker 1: the best title in the world because it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with or wolves. It's about that. It's

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Speaker 1: a has to do with a sci fi story I

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Speaker 1: was reading at the time, But the idea that we

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Speaker 1: change our but potentially we change our bodies in order

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Speaker 1: to explore space and to explore our the world instead

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Speaker 1: of attempting to bring a portion of our atmosphere in

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Speaker 1: our environment with us. Uh and and and our limitations

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Speaker 1: with us we instead alter ourselves, and certainly we make

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Speaker 1: a lot of augmentations to ourselves anyway, So many things

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Speaker 1: such as glasses, contacts, various biomedical equipment that is added

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Speaker 1: to the human body. We're making these changes anyway for

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Speaker 1: things that are generally thought of as necessary. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then we also make changes that are cosmetic in nature.

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Speaker 1: But what about wings? Well, yeah, and in order to

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Speaker 1: actually really get to the meat of this conversation, we

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Speaker 1: have to bring up Dr Joseph Rosen. He is a

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Speaker 1: Dartmouth plastic surgeon and reconstructive surgeon. And it's um, I

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Speaker 1: think would be pretty mild just to say that he's

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Speaker 1: a futurist. Yeah, and he's definitely a UTRA, is definitely

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Speaker 1: a post humanist in a he's he's one of these

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Speaker 1: amazing individuals that if you look him up, you'll find

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Speaker 1: various articles about his work. Um. But in particular, there

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Speaker 1: was a two thousand and one UM interview slash profile

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Speaker 1: in Harper's magazine by Lawrence Slater. Highly recommend anyone read

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Speaker 1: who's fascinated by this topic. It was called Dr Dayalus.

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Speaker 1: It's an excellent article. Actually, the way that it was

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Speaker 1: written reminded me of Mary Rich in the way that

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Speaker 1: she approaches her material, so it is well worth checking out.

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Speaker 1: So with Rosen, here's the thing. He is, he's totally

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Speaker 1: steeped in his profession and he takes on something like

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Speaker 1: five hundred patients a year to do mostly reconstructive surgery,

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Speaker 1: but some plastic surgery as well. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: someone he was an absolute expert in his field. He is, uh,

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Speaker 1: he steeped in the practicalities of it, but he was

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Speaker 1: also a big thinker. Yeah, he's a plastic surgeon, but

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Speaker 1: but not a mirror cosmetic surgeon. And the article in

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Speaker 1: question went into sort of around the turn of the

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Speaker 1: millennium where plastic surgery stood about the idea that it's

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Speaker 1: sort of sort of in this place where it's often

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Speaker 1: looked down on um by people outside of the medical profession,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes within the medical profession, may be seen as

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Speaker 1: as a as a lesser medical practice, which of course

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Speaker 1: is is not not the case when you look at

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Speaker 1: the the the non cosmetic applications. When you're looking at

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Speaker 1: people who have undergone serious injury, particularly facial injuries for instance,

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Speaker 1: and finding ways to correct that and and bring a

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Speaker 1: certain amount of normalcy back to that person's life. When

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Speaker 1: you look at cleft palate and cleft lip reconstruction. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's there's a lot that goes on in

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery that is not breast jobs. But but that

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Speaker 1: tends to be sort of the the easy association that

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Speaker 1: people make when you just hear plastic surgeon on TV. Oh,

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Speaker 1: she went to the plastic surgeon's office. That means she

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Speaker 1: had something superficial and unnecessary done. But plastic surgery is

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Speaker 1: bigger than that, much bigger. And uh, you know, as

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Speaker 1: you had said that he has he's worked on reconstructing

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Speaker 1: faces um when died warrior causes. Right, So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about catastrophic poly trauma. So if you're in uh, if

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Speaker 1: you're a soldier and you have undergone this trauma, what

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Speaker 1: that means is that you have so many various problems

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Speaker 1: going on um that you can't necessarily, uh find a

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Speaker 1: solution to all of those injuries. But what Dr Rosen

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Speaker 1: can do is he can fashion a new knows um,

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Speaker 1: but he can't restore that soldier's sense of smell. He

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Speaker 1: can at least give some sort of normalcy back to

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Speaker 1: that person. So that's a lot of work that he

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Speaker 1: does there. Um. He also is working on healthcare reform.

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Speaker 1: This is really interesting. This isn't the form of cybercare.

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Speaker 1: He argues that our hospital system is just uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: an outgrowth of the Civil War. In other words, it

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Speaker 1: was set up to administer to a huge amount of

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Speaker 1: massive casualties. And he's saying that that's just not the

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Speaker 1: way that the world works today. And he is helping

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Speaker 1: to revamp the national healthcare system of Vietnam using cellphones

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Speaker 1: and laptops to link clinics, hospitals, and rural physicians. So

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Speaker 1: this guy is a renaissance man. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: he's a big thinker, which is extended over to his

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Speaker 1: ideas about what we can do in terms of improving

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Speaker 1: not just augmenting, i should say, but really heightening our

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Speaker 1: senses as a human being, in augmenting our experiences as

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Speaker 1: a human being. Yeah, he's an amazing thinker. And then

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Speaker 1: he really use the cliche, you know, thinks outside the box.

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Speaker 1: He is the he's a bit of a rebel. He's

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Speaker 1: he's questioning authority and questioning sort of normal approaches to

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Speaker 1: things all the time. And you see that with with

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Speaker 1: with various gifted minds out there. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: not merely that they work really hard and are just

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Speaker 1: geniuses within the confines of their profession, within the confines

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Speaker 1: of their their role in society, but they actually think

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Speaker 1: beyond the typical constraint. It's true. Like, for instance, he

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Speaker 1: says that a salamander can regenerate in arm in forty

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Speaker 1: two days, So he says, somewhere in your own genome

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Speaker 1: that ability still exists. He says, why can't we go

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Speaker 1: ahead and find that figure that out so that we

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Speaker 1: can regenerate a whole limb for ourselves. And he says,

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Speaker 1: we can do it. It's just a matter of you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty to fifty years to coming up with that. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, he also looks at soldiers again who have

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Speaker 1: had those catastrophic poly traumas, and he says, why can't

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Speaker 1: we use a whole body pro thesis, like you know

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Speaker 1: that's made out of exoskeleton. Um. You know, obviously cost

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Speaker 1: as a factor in perception because it's not too it's

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Speaker 1: not too normal. They see someone trapesing through a hallway,

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Speaker 1: who's you know, in case in exo skeleton, But he's

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Speaker 1: got these ideas of how to make it work for

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Speaker 1: humans and how to, as I said, augment the experiences

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Speaker 1: for people and make it better. Yeah, he wants to

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Speaker 1: make it better. He wants to fix it. You see

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Speaker 1: that both in in healthcare reform, as you mentioned, but

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Speaker 1: also but more importantly, in the human body. There's a

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Speaker 1: great quote from that article that I think really sums

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Speaker 1: up a lot about Rosen's outlook on not just plastic

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Speaker 1: surgery but life. He says, you know, I'm really proud

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Speaker 1: of that face. And he's talking about some facial reconstruction

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Speaker 1: that he performed on an individual who lost a lot

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Speaker 1: of it to cancer. Because I'm really proud of that face.

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Speaker 1: I didn't follow any protocol. There's no textbook to tell

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Speaker 1: you how to fashion a face eaten away by cancer.

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Speaker 1: Plastic surgery is the intersection of art and science. It's

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Speaker 1: the intersection of the surgeon's imagination with human flesh, and

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Speaker 1: human flesh is infinitely malleable. People say cosmetic surgery is

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Speaker 1: frivolous boobs and noses, but it's so much more than that.

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Speaker 1: The body is a conduit for the soul, at least

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Speaker 1: historically speaking, When you change what you look like, you

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Speaker 1: change who you are so well, and it doesn't That

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Speaker 1: kind of speak to a lot of what we've talked

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Speaker 1: about in the podcast in terms of studies having to

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Speaker 1: do with psychology the whole, like you fit, you know,

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Speaker 1: fake it till you make it, or you know, if

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Speaker 1: you assume a powerful posture, then your body responds physiological way.

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Speaker 1: So you know, a lot of what he's saying is

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Speaker 1: is there's a truth there that if you can change

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Speaker 1: yourself in that way, then certainly physically and mentally, things

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Speaker 1: will follow. Okay, so let's get into some of his

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Speaker 1: really fun post humanist dreams for the human body. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because he again he's all about making the changes necessary,

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Speaker 1: arguably necessary in some cases to make us better beings.

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Speaker 1: For instance, calcular implants, uh, new rods for the eyes

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Speaker 1: to give a super binocular vision. Um soldier implants like

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Speaker 1: this was great, a nose flashlight because you know your

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Speaker 1: nose is just there. You know it's important for breathing.

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Speaker 1: But you know optics, optic technology grow smaller and smaller.

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Speaker 1: Why not have a light up there? Imagine you sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, you click one nostril and then a

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Speaker 1: light shines out the other nose and you it's perfect

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Speaker 1: for reading. It's a great idea. Really, now I can

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Speaker 1: just see eight year old really having fun with that

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Speaker 1: when they blow their nose. Yeah, yeah, like light flashes,

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Speaker 1: like really bright light every time you sneeze. But it's

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, like when you say it, like, we're

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Speaker 1: even laughing because it's ridiculous. It's so different from what

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Speaker 1: we're used to. But Rosen is the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: that says, no, why are you laughing? Because this is

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Speaker 1: actually really practical. Right, he's saying, in a military sense,

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Speaker 1: why wouldn't you want your soldier outfitted with this? Right?

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Speaker 1: Because it makes perfect sense. Um. Cochlear implants, of course,

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Speaker 1: are already in existence. But what he is suggesting is

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Speaker 1: giving us far superior auditory powers, so we'll be able

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Speaker 1: to detect things miles away, again becoming superhuman. And uh,

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Speaker 1: we've mentioned before the senses that we used to perceive

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Speaker 1: the world are in to varying degrees limited or extremely limited,

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Speaker 1: even compared to other animals. Um, you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: the mantis shrimp, which sees and all this vaster array

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Speaker 1: of colors that we can scarcely imagine. We talked about

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about bats, how it's almost impossible for

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Speaker 1: us to really imagine what it's like to to quote unquote,

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Speaker 1: see the world as a bat. So instead of being

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Speaker 1: limited by this this world that we've painted in just

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Speaker 1: a few different colors, he's saying, why don't we paint

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Speaker 1: the world in more colors? Why don't we update our

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Speaker 1: our machinery so that we can paint a more brilliant world.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's an interesting concept to think about when

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Speaker 1: especially in the I guess in the context of how

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Speaker 1: we are bombarded with stimuli these days, and we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this and the multitasking episodes quite a bit. So

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Speaker 1: I wonder if if doing that, if sort of upping

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Speaker 1: your experience of that stimuli, would would make sense in

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Speaker 1: this sort of new world where you're getting thrown things

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Speaker 1: all the time. So if you get other words, if

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Speaker 1: you can kind of tune in a little bit more,

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Speaker 1: things are a little bit louder, things are a little

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Speaker 1: bit brighter. Does that make sense for the modern human mind?

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Speaker 1: Sort of opening ended question there, but I wanted to

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Speaker 1: point out that Rosen is also a fan of alo

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Speaker 1: location implants and fins. Fins, Yes, why not? I mean

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Speaker 1: it it comes down to a lot of you know, biomimicry.

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Speaker 1: If you want to see how to swim, look for

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Speaker 1: look at an animal that has evolved over the course

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Speaker 1: of millions and millions of years to be an incredible swimmer.

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Speaker 1: That's what you need to do. And that we do

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Speaker 1: that to a certain extent. And you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: shark skin and then adapting that into swimwear. Um. But

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Speaker 1: he's talking about taking it even even further. And of

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Speaker 1: course his pet project, his pet thought experiment. I guess

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Speaker 1: you could say surgical wings, because this is really where

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Speaker 1: his engineering brain meets his his his reconstructive brain and

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Speaker 1: brushes up against the brain of mad science, for sure.

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Speaker 1: But it is important to think of it as as

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Speaker 1: a thought experiment. Um. He is not trying to do

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Speaker 1: this or anything that we know of, uh, but but

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Speaker 1: it is a great thought experiment for just what are

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Speaker 1: you know, what are we willing to do? What can

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Speaker 1: we do? And why are we why do we feel

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Speaker 1: weird about going into some of these areas like, for instance,

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Speaker 1: so one of the examples he brings up just in

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery. And what I mean he brings it up.

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Speaker 1: He brings it up at conferences because this this dude

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Speaker 1: has been an amazing figure in plastic surgery, travels over

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Speaker 1: the world, speaks a big conferences. He's an influential character.

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Speaker 1: So he's not just his voice out on the fringe.

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Speaker 1: He's a leading figure. Um. So he brought up for instance,

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Speaker 1: you have a man walks into the surgeon's office and

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Speaker 1: he has an extra thumb. Um, he's then he is

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Speaker 1: a doctor is allowed to take that thumb off. But

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Speaker 1: but if a person comes in and says, hey, I

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Speaker 1: would like an extra thumb, then he can't. He can't

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Speaker 1: do that. That's that's just completely crazy. And nobody adds

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Speaker 1: extra thumbs to people. But he was saying that he

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Speaker 1: there was one person that who was I believe a

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Speaker 1: waiter server and had an extra thumb and it actually

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Speaker 1: aided that person in their job. This is an actual

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Speaker 1: person with the second thumb, and he was saying, well

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Speaker 1: that that was helping that person out. So yeah, why

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Speaker 1: is it beyond the pail to add extra digits? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then there's also the rest uh example that he

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Speaker 1: brings up. Um and this is he brought this up

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Speaker 1: when people were pressing him on the wing issue because

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Speaker 1: he'd mentioned it before, and then at a conference some

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Speaker 1: people were kind of, you know, they're a little freaked

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Speaker 1: out by this, and they're saying, would you really do that?

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Speaker 1: Would you really give somebody wings? Or would you give somebody,

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Speaker 1: you know, lizard skin? Would you really do any of

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Speaker 1: these crazy things? And so he's bringing up various examples

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Speaker 1: to to make his, uh, his point, And he pointed

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Speaker 1: out that that there was a lady that he'd come

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Speaker 1: across that was in need of breast reconstruction and she

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Speaker 1: wanted blue areolas. And don't have anything to say about that,

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Speaker 1: but he said, well, you know what's wrong with that? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know what, why not if the person wants to

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Speaker 1: have blue areolas, let him have blue areolas. How is

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Speaker 1: that different from a lot of the things we did

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Speaker 1: to our body? You know? For some reason, of all

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Speaker 1: the things that have been saying on this podcast, that's

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Speaker 1: the one thing that made me. But don't ask me why, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's stuff like this, I think that

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Speaker 1: makes people sort of look at him a little sideways.

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Speaker 1: But the fact the matter, as I said, this is

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Speaker 1: someone who is an absolute expert in his field and

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Speaker 1: steeped in the technology. He's on the advisory panel for

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Speaker 1: the Navy as well as NASA. His insights on human

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Speaker 1: machine interfaces brought him to the attention of the Department

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Speaker 1: of Defense here in the States, and they've sought his

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Speaker 1: views on virtual reality, future warfare, and bio terrorism. So

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Speaker 1: people want his brain. They want to know what's going

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Speaker 1: on and rumbling around in that brain is blue oriole

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Speaker 1: aerials and uh, you know, nose flashlights and surgical wings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because he'd gain He's one of these guys that he

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Speaker 1: thinks or sees something in the world and it's it's

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Speaker 1: like it instantly, the wheels are turning like. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: take anything for granted. He thinks about it's possible applications,

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Speaker 1: possible ways to improve it, like, for instance, with rhino plastic,

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Speaker 1: which often is you know, typically about correcting rebuilding the

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Speaker 1: nose or or making cosmetic adjustments to the nose. But

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Speaker 1: he's saying that that hasn't even reached its full potential,

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Speaker 1: that we could we can improve upon the nose, and

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Speaker 1: then ultimately improvements that we make to the human body

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Speaker 1: need not be a surgical in nature, but a genetic

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Speaker 1: in nature. Okay, so he's talking about gaming the body

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Speaker 1: now through genetics as opposed to plastic surgery. We're getting

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Speaker 1: married eventually. Yeah. Um, Now again you have to kind

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Speaker 1: of take his perspective on a little bit if this

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Speaker 1: seems odd to you. I mean, again, here's someone who's

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Speaker 1: doing five D procedures a year. And keep in mind

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Speaker 1: that in two thousand and ten, Americans spent over ten

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Speaker 1: billion dollars on cosmetic surgery. So if you're in this

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Speaker 1: field and you see this over and over again and

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Speaker 1: your futurist, you can't help but sit there and say,

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Speaker 1: how can I actually improve upon this process? And if

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Speaker 1: this is the way that humanity is going, why not

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Speaker 1: make it really incredible? Why not chase after the idea

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Speaker 1: of flight, which is something that humans you know, have

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Speaker 1: always secretly or not so secretly wanted for themselves. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he's at disconference again, people keep pressing him on

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Speaker 1: this issue, and finally he does answer. Because he's not

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Speaker 1: the kind of guy that's gonna not tell you exactly

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Speaker 1: what he thinks of about a topic. He said, and

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Speaker 1: they said, would you perform this surgery on someone if

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Speaker 1: they want. Um, No, I think he's talking about wings

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Speaker 1: in this case. Yeah, I'm just hypothetically, and we'll get

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Speaker 1: into the mechanics possible mechanics of the surgery in a

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Speaker 1: bet that he said, yes, I would. I can certainly

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Speaker 1: see why we don't devote research money to it. I

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Speaker 1: can see why the n i H would fund work

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Speaker 1: on breast cancer over this. But I don't have a

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Speaker 1: problem with altering the human form. We do it all

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Speaker 1: the time. It's only our Judeo Christian conservatism that makes

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Speaker 1: us think this is wrong. Who here doesn't try to

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Speaker 1: send their children to the best schools in the hopes

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Speaker 1: of altering them. Who here objects to palm pilot, a

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Speaker 1: thing we we class to our bodies with which we

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Speaker 1: receive rapid electronic signals. Who here doesn't surround themselves with

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Speaker 1: a metal shell and travel at death defying speeds. We

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Speaker 1: have always altered ourselves for beauty or for power, and

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Speaker 1: so long as we are not causing harm, what makes

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Speaker 1: us think we should stop? And again, that quote is

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Speaker 1: from the excellent article by Laurence Slater two thousand one

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Speaker 1: Harbord Magazine. Dr dayalis Um Highlight recommend everyone to check

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Speaker 1: that out. So we're going to actually close out the

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Speaker 1: this episode right here, part one of Surgical Wings, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to continue this in Surgical Wings Part two,

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Speaker 1: where we'll really get more into the nitty gritty of

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Speaker 1: how you could surgically make this uh seemingly impossible thing happen.

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Speaker 1: I like this analogy of surgery, and here we are.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna leave you guys in the middle, but we're

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Speaker 1: gonna suit tre you up in the next part, so

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Speaker 1: stay tuned for that. In the meantime, if you want

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Speaker 1: to interact with us online, reach out to us, share

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Speaker 1: your thoughts on what you've heard so far in Surgical Wings.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook and you can find

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Speaker 1: us on tumbler. We are stuff to blow your mind

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Speaker 1: and both of those, and we also have a Twitter

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Speaker 1: account where we use the handle blow the Mind and

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Speaker 1: you can always drop us a line at blow the

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Speaker 1: Mind at Discovery dot com for more on this and

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00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Does It how Stuff works dot

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Speaker 1: com