WEBVTT - The Lunar New Years Special: Part 1 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:10.000 It's the New Year's again. Whoa, Yeah, welcome, Welcome to 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:15.040 the Year the Tiger. This is a special special lunar 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:19.079 New Year's edition of It could Happen here a podcast 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.320 that he is today just about well, it's still about 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.240 sort of things falling apart and things being rebuilt. But 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.720 I wanted to specifically, you know, do do it do it? 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.040 Do a special luniar Year's episode and spend some time, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.000 I think talking about Chinese nous and how what sort 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.840 of being a part of the Chinese diaspora in sort 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.040 of in the US and Canada is like, and you 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.280 know how how that how the influence is, how we organize, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.680 how what what we're afraid of, what we're sort of 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.640 proud of? Um. And with me to talk about this, 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.120 we have j n who I think first time I 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.040 ever returning guests. Yeah, who is it works? With laus On? 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.040 Hello j n Oh, what an honor. Thanks thanks for 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.720 inviting me back. Yeah, thank you for coming. And we 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:10.240 also have Jane She who is a queer Chinese settler 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:15.080 living in unseated traditional and ancestral territories and Mosquian Sasquamish 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:21.320 and slave with tooth nations in what is falsely and 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.959 fakely considered Canada. Um. She has a poet, writer, editor, 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.200 and an organizer and does many other cool things. Hello, Jane, Welcome, 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:32.039 Welcome to the show. Hello, thank you for having me. 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.880 Um just wanted to share that it's musquam squamish and 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:40.120 slate with tooth. Yeah. Sorry, I apcuately, I do not 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:44.039 live up north, and so my my pronunciations of tribal 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.640 names are even worse than they are for the travel 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:56.960 daves that are around me. So my apologies. So all right, 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.280 before we get into a bunch of extremely grim stuff, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.520 I wanted to because this is the this if you 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:03.800 will be listening to well, okay, unless listening to this 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.960 on Monday night, in which case, uh, congratulations on beating time. 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.320 But most of your probably gonna listen to listening to 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.160 this on on lunar New Years and so I wanted 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.480 to before yeah, before everything is completely dark, I want 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.080 you to know what you choose favorite Chinese New Year's 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.880 food is because this is like maybe my favorite holiday, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.320 and it's basically my favorite holiday because in Grand Chinese tradition, 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.720 it's just an excuse to eat a lot. So yeah, 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.960 opening the floor up, Yeah, I think you're the expert here, Jane, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:40.040 so feel free to I am not laid on the knowledge. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:46.560 I am not an expert. Just because I fault dumplings 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:51.280 does not mean I'm an expert. But I mean I 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:57.960 haven't spent like lunar New Year's with really that many 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.040 other people in a very long time, so my sense 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.680 of like breath of food has really really narrowed to 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:14.320 what is available to me. Um. And I also have 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.120 been really struggling with the dumplings that I've been making 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.720 because of like carpal tunnel issues. But I've been thinking 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:28.640 a lot about jellyfish lately. Like I keep thinking about jellyfish, 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:33.160 and I keep thinking about like the sesame anything with 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:39.040 sesame in it. Yeah, and like just boiled dumplings I 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:45.119 feel like are really great for me at this particular moment. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.280 my favorite is uh. In Cantanese, it's called me and go, 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:57.720 which is it's really yes um. And the way my 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.320 mom used to make it all the time was like 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.960 dip it in an egg first, um, And so it 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:05.920 has this kind of like eggy crust on it, which 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.520 is really really awesome. And I've been making up for 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.720 the past couple of years myself where I am, and 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.560 I can't wait to go to the grocery store and 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.320 grab some because it's only available around this time. I 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.640 guess they don't really produce it any other time. And 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.200 last time I went to visit my mom, she like 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.200 loaded my suitcase full of them and that was able 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.240 to eat them fast enough, unfortny and some of them 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.400 went fast. Oh no, we have we have one in 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.159 our refrigerator. I think it's I think it's it was 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:37.400 in the freezer and it's now I think in the 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.479 refrigerator and all incredibly excited to cut into it on 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.839 New Year's Yeah, do you do? You guys do the 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.200 because I know so we we only have red bean ones. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.200 I know there's like brown sugar ones or something that 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.760 are like plain wait, I just wanted to check, like 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:01.000 is it nanal? Yeah? At least so like the sort 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:06.200 of like flower thing that is like shaped like a 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.520 semi circle. Yeah wait, yeah, I feel like there's different, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.920 like an entire circle. Yeah. We usually cut them into 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.640 like like square strips, but I think that's just like 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:22.040 a cooking ease of cooking thing. Yeah, And it usually 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.720 comes with like a date or something on top. Yeah, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.160 when it's packaged. That's so interesting because I feel like 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.600 the nngal that I grew up with doesn't usually have 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.960 a lot of things on it. It's kind of like 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.440 sticky and kind of plain, and I'm just this is 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:46.240 this is a new thing for me. Yeah. Yeah, the 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.680 one we usually get just has red beans in it, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.160 and then there's like the one day on the top. Oh, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.400 I don't know if you're thinking of like talenting Go, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.800 which is like a different type of dish um where 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.040 it's like white rice cakes and then you you can 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.560 like it's like saucy and then yeah, like different ingredients 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.640 in it. Yeah, I think it's a different Ours are 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.920 just that they're like they're they're pretty close to the Yeah, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:11.880 I think I think I'm just talking about the just 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:17.400 regularly and golic. They're just like like they're they're they're 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.719 they're basically plain, but there's some red being like cirta 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.279 into the dough and then it's just like the flat 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:30.840 brown thing that you like fry. Yeah. Yeah, all right, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:37.159 this is we've now done dessert chat. I would honest 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.680 honestly much much less grim time than most of the 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.160 stuff that happens on here and you've all been now 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.839 subjected to it. I go eat Chinese New Year's food, 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:50.120 it's great. A yeah. So on two things that are 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:56.120 somewhat more grim um, I think there's there's two big 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:01.080 things I want to talk about that sort of related to, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:11.520 like I guess Chinese diaspora nous um. I guess we 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:16.920 can start with talking a bit about anti Asian violence 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:22.040 and police violence, because I mean it's like, so my 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:26.800 sort of into this is that my my someone Okay. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.360 So one of the things that's happened in the past 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.760 about two years was this the huge sort of spike 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.960 and anti asition violence. But then you know, part of 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.520 what happens politically around that was there was a huge 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.200 attempt to essentially turn anti asition violence is you, I guess, 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.840 like the anti BLM, like especially in the US, But 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.840 I think I think this happened elsewhere too, where there 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:55.160 reserves it didn't I don't know, it worked in some 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.960 places and didn't work in other places. So I went 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.160 to the research Chicago and a few is it a 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.280 few months ago, now maybe's a couple of a month 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.440 that you ago a Asian Chinese international student like got 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.120 shot on campus, and this turned into a huge sort 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:15.000 of like bring more cops on campus that there was 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:16.960 a huge petition that got signed. It was that people 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.559 were like asking for security cameras and asking for our cops, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.080 and like the UCPD like a couple of weeks later 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.080 just like shot a dude. And so that there there's 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:28.840 been I've been seeing this tension a lot. I was 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.920 wondering a Futube had also sort of run into similar 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:35.360 stuff and what your thoughts We're on it? UM. I mean, 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.839 I feel like, unfortunately with Canada, there's like this dynamic 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:47.120 where we look to the States for news and validation 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:54.160 in this weird way that I find really delegitimizes the 0:08:54.520 --> 0:09:01.040 unique struggles that are here that are different. UM. There 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.920 are there's a different kind of police system. There's like 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:12.480 the local police like Vancouver Police Department, UM, but then 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:16.920 there's also the RCMP, the Royal Mountain Canadian Police, which 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:22.200 are in other the municipalities. And the RCMP was created 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:30.840 specifically UM as a tool of settler colonialism to enforce 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.600 the Indian Act, which is UM, I guess the most 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:42.200 succinctly way I can put it as segregation UM of 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:49.839 Indigenous peoples from settlers, and there's a lot of displacement 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.880 of black communities across Canada. But and there was also 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.600 slavery in Canada, even though we like to pretend that 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:04.359 there wasn't. And so against this background, I guess um 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:09.680 and ongoing like police brutality, whether it's in what's written 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:15.840 territories or just the police killing people. There's a lot 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:23.400 of mainstream Asian Canadian and Chinese Canadian institutions that are 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:28.679 very very much complicit in the system. Like there is 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:34.560 an organization, an immigrant Chinese Canadian organization in Vancouver who 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.680 one of the board members is a cop who is 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:48.920 married to a a city councilor. And a lot of 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:55.320 the discourse that institutions not people themselves necessarily, but institutions 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.680 create around for example, the revitalization of Chinatown or the 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:04.120 president servation of the culture is around. Oh, there's graffiti 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.800 in the neighborhood Chinatown and Vancouver is in the downtowning 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:12.760 side was just considered, um, the poorest posted is considered 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.520 the poorest post a cold in Canada, and it's like 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:21.800 a tight knit community with a lot of indigenous people's, 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:29.080 Black people people in poverty struggling against the poisoning massacre UM, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:34.319 wherein the government is not providing UM safe supply, and 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.040 where the police just kind of like are everywhere pointing 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:44.760 guns and everyone displacing the tens cities and so when 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:48.440 there is an easy and not an easy but just 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:54.280 like a demonized group of people that UM, the general 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:58.480 public doesn't know enough about UM. If you walk through 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.760 the downtowning side and talk to people, you would talk 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:05.680 to people about their experiences with residential school, their experiences 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:11.880 with missing family members, experiences with poverty and in the 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.120 in the broadest terms, it's like the way that try 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.200 and Town is being gentrified, people tend to blame the 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:24.760 poor UM, and there's like this divide and conqueror mentality 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:29.000 within the Asian diaspora. When in the Chinese diaspora specifically, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:37.640 and so similar to happened with UM Michelle Go similar 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.840 to her UM, there was a South Asian elderly woman 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:47.000 who a group of people who lived in the intensity 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.760 had killed pretending to be cops when they knocked on 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.600 her door, and the county one of the city councilors 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.760 UM in Vancouver was like this, we need to stop 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:05.280 and ulging in these tense cities. Um. Meanwhile, there's a 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.480 lot of like marginalized people in these tense cities who 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.760 who who can't um who need to live there because 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.600 it's COVID times and society has abandoned them. So it's 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:27.400 like anti Asian racism and violence has also the hate, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.240 the so called hate crime thing has so apparently increased, 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.240 um And I don't think that it's hasn't increased. It's 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.120 just that like the way that the media, the way 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:47.000 that the institutions within Canada is also jumping onto the 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.480 police wagon, the police the hate crime angle rather than 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.920 learn from abolitionists. Rather. Yeah, this is a long way 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.640 of putting it. It's like similar, it's similar, and I 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:10.680 know a lot of details because yeah, I mean I 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.280 think that, yeah, I think that tracks. I mean the 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.640 targets are slightly different just basis of news, but on 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.880 the sort of local context. But I think that, yeah, 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.360 that tracks a lot with what we've been seeing here 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.200 as I think there's a there's another thing that I 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.240 don't know, So I I really don't like the term 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:34.960 like because the is the Twitter hashtag is stoppation hate, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.560 Like I hate that framing of it as sort of 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.600 hatred and not racism, but even the sort of the 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.240 anti Asian violence framing, which I've been used a lot, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.720 I think has problems because you know, I mean, this 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.040 is one of the things you were talking about, one 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.760 of the things that I've seen a lot. It's just 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:56.320 you know, any time, like you know, there are genuine 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:00.120 sort of racism attacks, right, but then there's a so 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.400 just like I mean, one of the sort of scare 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.120 things that happened here was it was like a bunch 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.480 of people's, like a bunch of restI Chinese restaurants got 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.400 broken into and robbed, and everyone was like, well, this 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.040 is anti Asian violence, and it's like, well, no, like 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.160 this is just theft. And and there there's there's been 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.800 this sort of like collapsing of something bad happens to 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:24.720 an Asian person with specifically sort of like targeted racist attacks, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:27.080 and I think that's been well, I mean, that's been 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.840 a problem. And there's also the secondary problem of you 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.920 know who even who even gets included in this in 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.080 the first place. Like one of one of the biggest 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.680 things I've been frustrated about is you know, the sort 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.480 of the selective inclusion of South Asian people like I 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.320 there there was there was a shooting at the fed 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.840 X facility last year by a guy who was like 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.600 very much, very far right, kind of like pilled online guy, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.760 and it killed a bunch of sea workers. And there 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:04.200 was never there's just nothing, even like no one talked 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.680 about is anti Asition violence. But then you know, selectively, 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.080 you get inclusions to South these Asian people when it's 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.840 like it's it's it's like people get folded into being 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.600 Asian when it's like useful to call from war police. 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.480 But then when it's you know, not useful for that, 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:24.240 or when it's you know, especially when it's working class 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.280 people getting killed, there's just sort of nothing. And I've 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.400 been I don't know, I've been really frustrated by this 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.280 dynamic a lot um. Yeah, Jane, I want to know 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.240 what you think about this too, because I have no 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.320 talks going enough about Yeah. I mean, you know, what 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.600 wasn't there? There was a hate crime builder was passed 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.320 in Congress, right, uh, And there was supposedly quote unquote 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.880 supposed to be addressing all this quote unquote anti Asian 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.120 hate stuff. And you know the only thing that accomplished 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:58.320 was it created like some some government organ to like 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.560 oversee these efforts to address hate crimes and then more 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.919 funding for the police. Right. So I think it was 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.080 it was a very kind of direct impact. We could 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:12.000 just see how this discourse transformed into exactly what a 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.800 lot of you know, organizers had said would happen, which 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:20.040 is more funny for the police and not making communities safer. Right. So, UM, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.439 I think the real conendrum for me and the thing 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.879 that really kind of you know, I spent a lot 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.399 of time thinking about this and I get I get 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.760 kind of frustrated, is um, you know, whenever these these 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:36.680 attacks happen on you know, Asian heritage or Asian identified people. Um, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.199 the response, I mean, it's it's a good natured and 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.520 it's well meaning, and I agree with it, but you know, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.399 the response is always like the telling folks who have 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.880 been victimized or those who know them, um, that more 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.920 police is not the answer, right, And you know, I 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.639 think that's true. But then I think when struggling with 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:05.400 is how to make this message resonate with those folks, right, 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.760 Because I think there's a way that in some ways 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.080 that can alienate them even more and make them even 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.840 more reaction, right, because that's you know, the media has 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:20.879 often spun that argument. Uh, they use further instances of 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.920 violence to spin that argument of like when when people 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.960 say the answer is not more cops, it doesn't make 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.920 a safer the media is able to spend that to say, look, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.359 this isn't working right, it's things are actually getting more 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:37.240 dangerous all the kind of like scaremongering tactics with crime 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.440 statistics and all that stuff, which are usually false anyway. 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.800 So I think that's what I'm trying to figure out now, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.840 is like, you know, because in in Chinatown, l A, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.840 where you know, where I've done some work, there was 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:56.080 community meetings with c c D, the Chinatown Committee for 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:04.399 Equitable Uh oh, what's what's destan for? I always forget development. Um. 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.160 They had some meetings with community folks to kind of like, 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.040 you know, hear what hear what they wanted to do 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.920 to address this, and they kind of like a lot 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.800 of those organizers had, um, you know, they're coming from 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.199 that viewpoint that calling for more cops is not the answer, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:26.040 and so some of the mail they're from the community, 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:27.760 but they're not. They weren't part of the kind of 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.160 like senior population of Chinatown, which is you know, it's 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.879 like low income seniors is kind of like are the 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.880 folks that are being pushed out and by developers and 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.640 all the gentrification happening as well. Um, some of some 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.560 men were kind of like, Okay, well we should start 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.800 kind of like armed neighborhood watch um. And you know, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.600 I think in some way that taps into this kind 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.360 of like we protect us type of ethos, right, It's 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:00.760 it's not relying on a state or government or whatever 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.920 police paramilitary force. Um. But then I think the question 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:10.320 that some folks had I heard the secondhand, was that, um, 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.320 you know, are are these people actually from the community, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.200 and are they actually doing this to address the needs 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.480 of the folks who are most affected by it? Right? 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.679 And so I think some folks were uncomfortable with the 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.320 idea that there should be these kind of like street patrols. Um. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.520 And so there's there's just so many different ways to 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.400 approach this, and I haven't you know, I'm not laying 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.720 way or anyone, but I just haven't seen an effective 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:40.200 way to counteract that call for more police. Yet. That's 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:45.280 a really good point because I feel like in when 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:56.560 especially um Asian women, people who experience like various forms 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:03.800 of sexual violence or UM street harassment. UM that sense 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:10.720 of unsafety is amplified when we witness other people getting 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:16.720 murdered in public spaces. And so I think in a way, 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:21.600 it's like understandable why people want to grasp for any 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:26.600 kind of solution and and also why that kind of 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:33.120 trauma can be weaponized or like taken advantage of immediately, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.520 like just because I'm like, who asked for you to 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:42.480 be street criptials of Chinatown? Who decided that you make 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.119 the communities safer? Have you consulted the seniors? Have you 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.560 have you talked with all of the seniors, all of 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.480 the elders to ask them, like how would you feel 0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:00.240 if I did that? Like where is that suggestion coming from? 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:05.320 And I think that like the other argument is that 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:11.160 like mental health resources is an alternative to policing, even 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:17.159 though UM policing and mental health systems are very, very 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:22.880 very connected. UM. Edward Wong has an article about that 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.479 in Upping the anti And I don't know, I just 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.280 think that like there has to be like a way 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.439 to talk about this without invalidating each other's trauma and 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:41.760 invalidating UM people survival instincts as well, because I feel like, um, 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.639 for years, as someone who's done work in the anti 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:50.280 violence sector, it's not that I wanted there to be 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:53.640 more policing. It's just that like a lot of survivors 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:55.760 might be like, hey, I actually do want use the 0:22:55.760 --> 0:23:00.920 court system because this person is dangerous. Like that's like, 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.399 as somebody supporting a survivor, I can't just go up, no, 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:09.840 you're wrong, less cops right, Like that's that's not a 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:16.199 compassionate response. And it's also not a compassionate response to go, hey, 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.640 you're making us like all about yourself and you should 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.840 like to be talking about like black and Indigenous people 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:26.480 like like like that's that's also really insensitive. So it's 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:31.399 like I feel like there's a way that there there 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:36.760 is like a way to talk about abolition that really 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:43.400 needs to respect every survivor or every like communities like trauma. 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:46.840 And it's not an easy thing because it's not like 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:52.440 our communities have had a good way to respond to trauma, 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.879 Like we haven't really like we're still breaking the cycles 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:01.000 of intergenerational trauma. Yeah, And I think this this kind 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.159 of comes back to another sort of difficulty of this 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:06.920 whole project, because you know, a lot of the sort 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:14.840 of the abolitionist framework is about like transitioning things towards 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:19.720 community solutions. But like what is that you know, like, 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.960 what does that even mean when you're dealing with you 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:25.560 know this, this is this is part of the problem 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:28.520 with well, okay, you have armed self defense groups, but 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:31.960 you know what happens when inevitably and this is this 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:34.879 is just something that happens just you know, this is 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.120 this is this is the nature of security forces, right 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:39.159 is eventually you're going to get abusers in it. And 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.119 it's like, okay, well what happens then? And what happens 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.760 when you know, like the abuses of people inside the community. 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:47.800 And and this is compounded I think by this problem 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:55.280 of like what like what even you know the I 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:57.480 think I think there's there's there's there's a broader problem 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.320 of like what Asian nous is and there's they brought 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:02.480 up and this is this is also sort of localized 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:07.640 problem of like what even like is the Chinese community 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:10.920 at all? Because you're dealing with something that's incredibly fragmented. 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:12.760 You're dealing people who speak different languages, You're dealing with 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.000 people who have been in these places for you know, 0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:17.639 some people have been here for centuries, some people who 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:22.119 have been here like two months. And I think that 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:25.600 makes it really difficult in a lot of ways to 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:32.159 sort of like even even just bring together something that 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:34.760 could be a community. And I know, I know what happens, 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:36.480 and I know, you know, there's there's there's lots of 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:40.439 different sort of like fragmented communities. But but I think 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:47.880 it makes this harder because there isn't a sort of 0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:54.160 like ready made thing you can turn to and go, Okay, well, 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:55.920 this is how we're going, Like this is a group 0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:59.040 of people, and this is the sort of like social sphere, 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:00.480 and this is the community that going to turn to 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.199 to sort of deal with this stuff. There's just this 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:07.880 kind of a bunch of amorphous different groups. And then 0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:11.439 also you have the problem that like you know, if 0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:13.840 you're gonna talk about like political forces nation communities, like 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:18.560 the business associations are extremely powerful and you know, we 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:22.280 have different objectives than they do, but they're also like 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.440 extremely well organized in a way that most other sort 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:27.760 of like Chinese groups aren't. I don't know that that's 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:41.440 that's that's been where my thinking has been going on this. Yeah, 0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:45.680 I think, UM, this there's some residents with what you're 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.399 saying in the kind of dynamics that you're identifying and 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.280 what I've kind of witnessed and experienced in like Hong 0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:57.040 Kong desporal organizing UM, which I think, you know, there's 0:26:57.040 --> 0:27:00.239 a lot of overlap with that same type of like 0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:06.359 small business organization type of thing that usually dominates China 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.240 towns across North America, which is the case in l 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.919 A and actually c C. He spends a lot of 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:17.360 time fighting the small business organizations UM because they are 0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:22.280 very friendly with developers UM, and they're usually pro UM 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:26.439 you know, pro securitization and anti for folks and all 0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:28.959 that kind of stuff. So there is that that element 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:32.120 right where a lot of times, you know, you are 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:34.960 fighting against people who might have to like stame heritages 0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:39.080