1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's the New Year's again. Whoa, Yeah, welcome, Welcome to 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: the Year the Tiger. This is a special special lunar 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: New Year's edition of It could Happen here a podcast 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: that he is today just about well, it's still about 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: sort of things falling apart and things being rebuilt. But 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to specifically, you know, do do it do it? 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Do a special luniar Year's episode and spend some time, 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: I think talking about Chinese nous and how what sort 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: of being a part of the Chinese diaspora in sort 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: of in the US and Canada is like, and you 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: know how how that how the influence is, how we organize, 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: how what what we're afraid of, what we're sort of 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: proud of? Um. And with me to talk about this, 14 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: we have j n who I think first time I 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: ever returning guests. Yeah, who is it works? With laus On? 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: Hello j n Oh, what an honor. Thanks thanks for 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: inviting me back. Yeah, thank you for coming. And we 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: also have Jane She who is a queer Chinese settler 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: living in unseated traditional and ancestral territories and Mosquian Sasquamish 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: and slave with tooth nations in what is falsely and 21 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: fakely considered Canada. Um. She has a poet, writer, editor, 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: and an organizer and does many other cool things. Hello, Jane, Welcome, 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Hello, thank you for having me. 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: Um just wanted to share that it's musquam squamish and 25 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: slate with tooth. Yeah. Sorry, I apcuately, I do not 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: live up north, and so my my pronunciations of tribal 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: names are even worse than they are for the travel 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: daves that are around me. So my apologies. So all right, 29 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: before we get into a bunch of extremely grim stuff, 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to because this is the this if you 31 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: will be listening to well, okay, unless listening to this 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: on Monday night, in which case, uh, congratulations on beating time. 33 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: But most of your probably gonna listen to listening to 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: this on on lunar New Years and so I wanted 35 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: to before yeah, before everything is completely dark, I want 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: you to know what you choose favorite Chinese New Year's 37 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: food is because this is like maybe my favorite holiday, 38 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: and it's basically my favorite holiday because in Grand Chinese tradition, 39 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: it's just an excuse to eat a lot. So yeah, 40 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: opening the floor up, Yeah, I think you're the expert here, Jane, 41 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: so feel free to I am not laid on the knowledge. 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: I am not an expert. Just because I fault dumplings 43 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: does not mean I'm an expert. But I mean I 44 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: haven't spent like lunar New Year's with really that many 45 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: other people in a very long time, so my sense 46 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: of like breath of food has really really narrowed to 47 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: what is available to me. Um. And I also have 48 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: been really struggling with the dumplings that I've been making 49 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: because of like carpal tunnel issues. But I've been thinking 50 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: a lot about jellyfish lately. Like I keep thinking about jellyfish, 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: and I keep thinking about like the sesame anything with 52 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: sesame in it. Yeah, and like just boiled dumplings I 53 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 1: feel like are really great for me at this particular moment. Yeah. Yeah, 54 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: my favorite is uh. In Cantanese, it's called me and go, 55 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: which is it's really yes um. And the way my 56 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: mom used to make it all the time was like 57 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: dip it in an egg first, um, And so it 58 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: has this kind of like eggy crust on it, which 59 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: is really really awesome. And I've been making up for 60 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: the past couple of years myself where I am, and 61 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: I can't wait to go to the grocery store and 62 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: grab some because it's only available around this time. I 63 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: guess they don't really produce it any other time. And 64 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: last time I went to visit my mom, she like 65 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: loaded my suitcase full of them and that was able 66 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: to eat them fast enough, unfortny and some of them 67 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: went fast. Oh no, we have we have one in 68 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: our refrigerator. I think it's I think it's it was 69 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: in the freezer and it's now I think in the 70 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: refrigerator and all incredibly excited to cut into it on 71 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: New Year's Yeah, do you do? You guys do the 72 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: because I know so we we only have red bean ones. 73 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: I know there's like brown sugar ones or something that 74 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: are like plain wait, I just wanted to check, like 75 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: is it nanal? Yeah? At least so like the sort 76 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: of like flower thing that is like shaped like a 77 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: semi circle. Yeah wait, yeah, I feel like there's different, 78 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: like an entire circle. Yeah. We usually cut them into 79 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: like like square strips, but I think that's just like 80 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: a cooking ease of cooking thing. Yeah, And it usually 81 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: comes with like a date or something on top. Yeah, 82 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: when it's packaged. That's so interesting because I feel like 83 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: the nngal that I grew up with doesn't usually have 84 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: a lot of things on it. It's kind of like 85 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: sticky and kind of plain, and I'm just this is 86 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: this is a new thing for me. Yeah. Yeah, the 87 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: one we usually get just has red beans in it, 88 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: and then there's like the one day on the top. Oh, 89 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're thinking of like talenting Go, 90 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: which is like a different type of dish um where 91 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: it's like white rice cakes and then you you can 92 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: like it's like saucy and then yeah, like different ingredients 93 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, I think it's a different Ours are 94 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: just that they're like they're they're pretty close to the Yeah, 95 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: I think I think I'm just talking about the just 96 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: regularly and golic. They're just like like they're they're they're 97 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: they're basically plain, but there's some red being like cirta 98 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: into the dough and then it's just like the flat 99 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: brown thing that you like fry. Yeah. Yeah, all right, 100 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: this is we've now done dessert chat. I would honest 101 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: honestly much much less grim time than most of the 102 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: stuff that happens on here and you've all been now 103 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: subjected to it. I go eat Chinese New Year's food, 104 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: it's great. A yeah. So on two things that are 105 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: somewhat more grim um, I think there's there's two big 106 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: things I want to talk about that sort of related to, 107 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: like I guess Chinese diaspora nous um. I guess we 108 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: can start with talking a bit about anti Asian violence 109 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: and police violence, because I mean it's like, so my 110 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: sort of into this is that my my someone Okay. 111 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: So one of the things that's happened in the past 112 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: about two years was this the huge sort of spike 113 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: and anti asition violence. But then you know, part of 114 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: what happens politically around that was there was a huge 115 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: attempt to essentially turn anti asition violence is you, I guess, 116 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: like the anti BLM, like especially in the US, But 117 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: I think I think this happened elsewhere too, where there 118 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: reserves it didn't I don't know, it worked in some 119 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: places and didn't work in other places. So I went 120 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: to the research Chicago and a few is it a 121 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: few months ago, now maybe's a couple of a month 122 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: that you ago a Asian Chinese international student like got 123 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: shot on campus, and this turned into a huge sort 124 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: of like bring more cops on campus that there was 125 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: a huge petition that got signed. It was that people 126 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,559 Speaker 1: were like asking for security cameras and asking for our cops, 127 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: and like the UCPD like a couple of weeks later 128 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: just like shot a dude. And so that there there's 129 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: been I've been seeing this tension a lot. I was 130 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: wondering a Futube had also sort of run into similar 131 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: stuff and what your thoughts We're on it? UM. I mean, 132 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: I feel like, unfortunately with Canada, there's like this dynamic 133 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: where we look to the States for news and validation 134 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: in this weird way that I find really delegitimizes the 135 00:08:54,520 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: unique struggles that are here that are different. UM. There 136 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: are there's a different kind of police system. There's like 137 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: the local police like Vancouver Police Department, UM, but then 138 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: there's also the RCMP, the Royal Mountain Canadian Police, which 139 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: are in other the municipalities. And the RCMP was created 140 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: specifically UM as a tool of settler colonialism to enforce 141 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: the Indian Act, which is UM, I guess the most 142 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: succinctly way I can put it as segregation UM of 143 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: Indigenous peoples from settlers, and there's a lot of displacement 144 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: of black communities across Canada. But and there was also 145 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: slavery in Canada, even though we like to pretend that 146 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:04,359 Speaker 1: there wasn't. And so against this background, I guess um 147 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: and ongoing like police brutality, whether it's in what's written 148 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: territories or just the police killing people. There's a lot 149 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: of mainstream Asian Canadian and Chinese Canadian institutions that are 150 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: very very much complicit in the system. Like there is 151 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: an organization, an immigrant Chinese Canadian organization in Vancouver who 152 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: one of the board members is a cop who is 153 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: married to a a city councilor. And a lot of 154 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: the discourse that institutions not people themselves necessarily, but institutions 155 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: create around for example, the revitalization of Chinatown or the 156 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: president servation of the culture is around. Oh, there's graffiti 157 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood Chinatown and Vancouver is in the downtowning 158 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: side was just considered, um, the poorest posted is considered 159 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: the poorest post a cold in Canada, and it's like 160 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: a tight knit community with a lot of indigenous people's, 161 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: Black people people in poverty struggling against the poisoning massacre UM, 162 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: wherein the government is not providing UM safe supply, and 163 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: where the police just kind of like are everywhere pointing 164 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: guns and everyone displacing the tens cities and so when 165 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: there is an easy and not an easy but just 166 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: like a demonized group of people that UM, the general 167 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: public doesn't know enough about UM. If you walk through 168 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: the downtowning side and talk to people, you would talk 169 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: to people about their experiences with residential school, their experiences 170 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: with missing family members, experiences with poverty and in the 171 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: in the broadest terms, it's like the way that try 172 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: and Town is being gentrified, people tend to blame the 173 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: poor UM, and there's like this divide and conqueror mentality 174 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: within the Asian diaspora. When in the Chinese diaspora specifically, 175 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: and so similar to happened with UM Michelle Go similar 176 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: to her UM, there was a South Asian elderly woman 177 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: who a group of people who lived in the intensity 178 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: had killed pretending to be cops when they knocked on 179 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: her door, and the county one of the city councilors 180 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: UM in Vancouver was like this, we need to stop 181 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: and ulging in these tense cities. Um. Meanwhile, there's a 182 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: lot of like marginalized people in these tense cities who 183 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: who who can't um who need to live there because 184 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: it's COVID times and society has abandoned them. So it's 185 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: like anti Asian racism and violence has also the hate, 186 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: the so called hate crime thing has so apparently increased, 187 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: um And I don't think that it's hasn't increased. It's 188 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: just that like the way that the media, the way 189 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: that the institutions within Canada is also jumping onto the 190 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: police wagon, the police the hate crime angle rather than 191 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: learn from abolitionists. Rather. Yeah, this is a long way 192 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: of putting it. It's like similar, it's similar, and I 193 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: know a lot of details because yeah, I mean I 194 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: think that, yeah, I think that tracks. I mean the 195 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: targets are slightly different just basis of news, but on 196 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: the sort of local context. But I think that, yeah, 197 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: that tracks a lot with what we've been seeing here 198 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: as I think there's a there's another thing that I 199 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: don't know, So I I really don't like the term 200 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: like because the is the Twitter hashtag is stoppation hate, 201 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: Like I hate that framing of it as sort of 202 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: hatred and not racism, but even the sort of the 203 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: anti Asian violence framing, which I've been used a lot, 204 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: I think has problems because you know, I mean, this 205 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: is one of the things you were talking about, one 206 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: of the things that I've seen a lot. It's just 207 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: you know, any time, like you know, there are genuine 208 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: sort of racism attacks, right, but then there's a so 209 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: just like I mean, one of the sort of scare 210 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: things that happened here was it was like a bunch 211 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: of people's, like a bunch of restI Chinese restaurants got 212 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: broken into and robbed, and everyone was like, well, this 213 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: is anti Asian violence, and it's like, well, no, like 214 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: this is just theft. And and there there's there's been 215 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: this sort of like collapsing of something bad happens to 216 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: an Asian person with specifically sort of like targeted racist attacks, 217 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: and I think that's been well, I mean, that's been 218 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: a problem. And there's also the secondary problem of you 219 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: know who even who even gets included in this in 220 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: the first place. Like one of one of the biggest 221 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: things I've been frustrated about is you know, the sort 222 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: of the selective inclusion of South Asian people like I 223 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: there there was there was a shooting at the fed 224 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: X facility last year by a guy who was like 225 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: very much, very far right, kind of like pilled online guy, 226 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: and it killed a bunch of sea workers. And there 227 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: was never there's just nothing, even like no one talked 228 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: about is anti Asition violence. But then you know, selectively, 229 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: you get inclusions to South these Asian people when it's 230 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: like it's it's it's like people get folded into being 231 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: Asian when it's like useful to call from war police. 232 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: But then when it's you know, not useful for that, 233 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: or when it's you know, especially when it's working class 234 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: people getting killed, there's just sort of nothing. And I've 235 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: been I don't know, I've been really frustrated by this 236 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: dynamic a lot um. Yeah, Jane, I want to know 237 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: what you think about this too, because I have no 238 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: talks going enough about Yeah. I mean, you know, what 239 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: wasn't there? There was a hate crime builder was passed 240 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: in Congress, right, uh, And there was supposedly quote unquote 241 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: supposed to be addressing all this quote unquote anti Asian 242 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: hate stuff. And you know the only thing that accomplished 243 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: was it created like some some government organ to like 244 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: oversee these efforts to address hate crimes and then more 245 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: funding for the police. Right. So I think it was 246 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: it was a very kind of direct impact. We could 247 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: just see how this discourse transformed into exactly what a 248 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: lot of you know, organizers had said would happen, which 249 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: is more funny for the police and not making communities safer. Right. So, UM, 250 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: I think the real conendrum for me and the thing 251 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: that really kind of you know, I spent a lot 252 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: of time thinking about this and I get I get 253 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: kind of frustrated, is um, you know, whenever these these 254 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: attacks happen on you know, Asian heritage or Asian identified people. Um, 255 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: the response, I mean, it's it's a good natured and 256 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: it's well meaning, and I agree with it, but you know, 257 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: the response is always like the telling folks who have 258 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: been victimized or those who know them, um, that more 259 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: police is not the answer, right, And you know, I 260 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: think that's true. But then I think when struggling with 261 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: is how to make this message resonate with those folks, right, 262 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: Because I think there's a way that in some ways 263 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: that can alienate them even more and make them even 264 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: more reaction, right, because that's you know, the media has 265 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: often spun that argument. Uh, they use further instances of 266 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: violence to spin that argument of like when when people 267 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: say the answer is not more cops, it doesn't make 268 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: a safer the media is able to spend that to say, look, 269 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: this isn't working right, it's things are actually getting more 270 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: dangerous all the kind of like scaremongering tactics with crime 271 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: statistics and all that stuff, which are usually false anyway. 272 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: So I think that's what I'm trying to figure out now, 273 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: is like, you know, because in in Chinatown, l A, 274 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: where you know, where I've done some work, there was 275 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: community meetings with c c D, the Chinatown Committee for 276 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: Equitable Uh oh, what's what's destan for? I always forget development. Um. 277 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: They had some meetings with community folks to kind of like, 278 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, hear what hear what they wanted to do 279 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: to address this, and they kind of like a lot 280 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: of those organizers had, um, you know, they're coming from 281 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: that viewpoint that calling for more cops is not the answer, 282 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: and so some of the mail they're from the community, 283 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: but they're not. They weren't part of the kind of 284 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: like senior population of Chinatown, which is you know, it's 285 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: like low income seniors is kind of like are the 286 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: folks that are being pushed out and by developers and 287 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: all the gentrification happening as well. Um, some of some 288 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: men were kind of like, Okay, well we should start 289 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: kind of like armed neighborhood watch um. And you know, 290 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: I think in some way that taps into this kind 291 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: of like we protect us type of ethos, right, It's 292 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: it's not relying on a state or government or whatever 293 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: police paramilitary force. Um. But then I think the question 294 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: that some folks had I heard the secondhand, was that, um, 295 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, are are these people actually from the community, 296 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: and are they actually doing this to address the needs 297 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: of the folks who are most affected by it? Right? 298 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: And so I think some folks were uncomfortable with the 299 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: idea that there should be these kind of like street patrols. Um. 300 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: And so there's there's just so many different ways to 301 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: approach this, and I haven't you know, I'm not laying 302 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: way or anyone, but I just haven't seen an effective 303 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: way to counteract that call for more police. Yet. That's 304 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: a really good point because I feel like in when 305 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: especially um Asian women, people who experience like various forms 306 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: of sexual violence or UM street harassment. UM that sense 307 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: of unsafety is amplified when we witness other people getting 308 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: murdered in public spaces. And so I think in a way, 309 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: it's like understandable why people want to grasp for any 310 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: kind of solution and and also why that kind of 311 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: trauma can be weaponized or like taken advantage of immediately, 312 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: like just because I'm like, who asked for you to 313 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: be street criptials of Chinatown? Who decided that you make 314 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: the communities safer? Have you consulted the seniors? Have you 315 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: have you talked with all of the seniors, all of 316 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: the elders to ask them, like how would you feel 317 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: if I did that? Like where is that suggestion coming from? 318 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: And I think that like the other argument is that 319 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: like mental health resources is an alternative to policing, even 320 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: though UM policing and mental health systems are very, very 321 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: very connected. UM. Edward Wong has an article about that 322 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: in Upping the anti And I don't know, I just 323 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: think that like there has to be like a way 324 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: to talk about this without invalidating each other's trauma and 325 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: invalidating UM people survival instincts as well, because I feel like, um, 326 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: for years, as someone who's done work in the anti 327 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: violence sector, it's not that I wanted there to be 328 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: more policing. It's just that like a lot of survivors 329 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: might be like, hey, I actually do want use the 330 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: court system because this person is dangerous. Like that's like, 331 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: as somebody supporting a survivor, I can't just go up, no, 332 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: you're wrong, less cops right, Like that's that's not a 333 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: compassionate response. And it's also not a compassionate response to go, hey, 334 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: you're making us like all about yourself and you should 335 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: like to be talking about like black and Indigenous people 336 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: like like like that's that's also really insensitive. So it's 337 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: like I feel like there's a way that there there 338 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: is like a way to talk about abolition that really 339 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: needs to respect every survivor or every like communities like trauma. 340 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: And it's not an easy thing because it's not like 341 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: our communities have had a good way to respond to trauma, 342 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: Like we haven't really like we're still breaking the cycles 343 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: of intergenerational trauma. Yeah, And I think this this kind 344 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: of comes back to another sort of difficulty of this 345 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: whole project, because you know, a lot of the sort 346 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: of the abolitionist framework is about like transitioning things towards 347 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: community solutions. But like what is that you know, like, 348 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: what does that even mean when you're dealing with you 349 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: know this, this is this is part of the problem 350 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: with well, okay, you have armed self defense groups, but 351 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: you know what happens when inevitably and this is this 352 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: is just something that happens just you know, this is 353 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: this is this is the nature of security forces, right 354 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: is eventually you're going to get abusers in it. And 355 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, well what happens then? And what happens 356 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: when you know, like the abuses of people inside the community. 357 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: And and this is compounded I think by this problem 358 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: of like what like what even you know the I 359 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: think I think there's there's there's there's a broader problem 360 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: of like what Asian nous is and there's they brought 361 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: up and this is this is also sort of localized 362 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: problem of like what even like is the Chinese community 363 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: at all? Because you're dealing with something that's incredibly fragmented. 364 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: You're dealing people who speak different languages, You're dealing with 365 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: people who have been in these places for you know, 366 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: some people have been here for centuries, some people who 367 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: have been here like two months. And I think that 368 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: makes it really difficult in a lot of ways to 369 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: sort of like even even just bring together something that 370 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: could be a community. And I know, I know what happens, 371 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: and I know, you know, there's there's there's lots of 372 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: different sort of like fragmented communities. But but I think 373 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: it makes this harder because there isn't a sort of 374 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: like ready made thing you can turn to and go, Okay, well, 375 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: this is how we're going, Like this is a group 376 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: of people, and this is the sort of like social sphere, 377 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: and this is the community that going to turn to 378 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: to sort of deal with this stuff. There's just this 379 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: kind of a bunch of amorphous different groups. And then 380 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: also you have the problem that like you know, if 381 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna talk about like political forces nation communities, like 382 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: the business associations are extremely powerful and you know, we 383 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: have different objectives than they do, but they're also like 384 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: extremely well organized in a way that most other sort 385 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: of like Chinese groups aren't. I don't know that that's 386 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: that's that's been where my thinking has been going on this. Yeah, 387 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: I think, UM, this there's some residents with what you're 388 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: saying in the kind of dynamics that you're identifying and 389 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: what I've kind of witnessed and experienced in like Hong 390 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: Kong desporal organizing UM, which I think, you know, there's 391 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,239 Speaker 1: a lot of overlap with that same type of like 392 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: small business organization type of thing that usually dominates China 393 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: towns across North America, which is the case in l 394 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: A and actually c C. He spends a lot of 395 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: time fighting the small business organizations UM because they are 396 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: very friendly with developers UM, and they're usually pro UM 397 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: you know, pro securitization and anti for folks and all 398 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So there is that that element 399 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: right where a lot of times, you know, you are 400 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: fighting against people who might have to like stame heritages 401 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: for example, UM. And you know, for me personally, that's 402 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: that's very much the case with Hong Kong ASPERG groups, right, 403 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: because you know, many of them are very conservative, are 404 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: right wing and not only just kind of held personal beliefs, 405 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: but advocate a lot for these kind of you know, 406 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: these policies and politicians and all these different things that 407 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: I really can't stand and I'm aligned against UM. And 408 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's a lot of folks want 409 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: to take the kind of pregnantious root of like we'll 410 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: work with you on things that we where we have 411 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: points of unity, otherwise we don't. Whereas you know, I 412 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: guess some people see me as as a little bit 413 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: more rigid in the sense that like, I don't want 414 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: to work with these folks at all, because UM, I 415 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: see them as kind of themselves as as a force 416 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: that is causing more harm than good, especially if with 417 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: these Hong Kong aspert groups. The usual mantra is like 418 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: Hong Kong first, like everything that we do is is 419 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: serving Hong Kong UM, and that you in the desper 420 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: That usually means kind of like non partisanship, lobbying, congress, 421 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: all those different things, UM. And then kind of like 422 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: completely ignoring or being agnostic of local and domestic issues. UM. 423 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: To oversimplify a little bit. So know, I think that's 424 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: been on my mind a lot. I know your question 425 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: was about chineseness, but I guess for me that kind 426 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: of filters a little bit further down to like what 427 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: is being a Hong Kong Right, It's really difficult to 428 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: organize with your specific quote unquote ethnic or diaspora community, 429 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: and the the meaning of diaspora is not a cohesive 430 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: community but people's memories of home. Um. It's like a 431 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: difficult thing to kind of but I butt your head 432 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: against because it's like you have your UM diversity, equity 433 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: inclusion framework of organizing, and then you have the every 434 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: day like what what what these frameworks can't simplify, which 435 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: is the tensions between your communities. Like I didn't grow 436 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: up experiencing overt racist violence when I grew up in Richmond. UM. 437 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: Richmond is an extremely East Asian and Chinese suburb. UM 438 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: that saw first um, not first, but just like at 439 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: some point a wave of Hong Kong diaspora because of 440 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: and then afterwards more like mainlanders, UM, and so on 441 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: the playground, somebody was like, are you from Taiwan mainland 442 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: or or Hong Kong? And that was when I was 443 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: like seven, And that was my introduction to what it 444 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,479 Speaker 1: means to be in diaspora in this particular kind of way. 445 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: And UM being like just right like in that and 446 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: in that and and figuring yourself out within that and 447 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: seeing how there was just an absent of community because 448 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: of how like these different geopolitical experiences have like separated us, 449 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: um and made it more difficult. Um Like when we 450 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: filter our parents political beliefs onto each other. It's kind 451 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: of like this awkward thing. But but I think that 452 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 1: like UM in in trying to contend with that in 453 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: the in the president, it's sort of like, um, we 454 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: have these older institutions that other people that that the 455 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: older generations have built. What new things can we build? 456 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: What things can we um? Because I feel like I'm 457 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm really rigid too. I'm like really not great at 458 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: talking across the aisle, and when I do, it's not 459 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: it's not really about anything substantive. It's like, hey, like hi, 460 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: it's good to see you know, Like when you live 461 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: in a place you you don't want to make like 462 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: make enemies, but like it's it's a really hard thing, um. 463 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: And it's even more heartbreaking when you find out slowly 464 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: that people are just taking advantage of you, right like, 465 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: and I don't know, it's it's a it's a really 466 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: difficult thing to organize against when you're like you all 467 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: hate me, great love it this has been they could 468 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: happen here, Join us for part two of this discussion. Tomorrow, 469 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: we're going into more detail on the state of the Left. 470 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can find us That Happened Here 471 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: pod on Twitter, Instagram, and check out the cool Zone 472 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: for other shows that we need from. It could Happen 473 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media and more 474 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone 475 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 476 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 477 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 478 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 479 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: for listening.