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Speaker 3: This week. I'm excited to share my conversation or should

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Speaker 3: I say conversations with Nina Westbrook. During this episode, you'll

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Speaker 3: hear part of our chat from our weekly Getting down

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Speaker 3: to Business series that I hosted on Marie Clair's Instagram.

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Speaker 3: Since I couldn't get enough, I interviewed her again a

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Speaker 3: few months later. Nina is a licensed marriage and family therapist.

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Speaker 3: She's the founder of benet by Nina and now the

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Speaker 3: host of her new podcast, The Relationship Chronicles. Her name

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Speaker 3: may sound familiar because she's the wife of NBA All

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Speaker 3: Star Russell Westbrook and they have three beautiful kids together.

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Speaker 3: It was fascinating to hear how she redefined her career

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Speaker 3: in her life as she built her family with Russell.

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Speaker 3: I hope you enjoy our candid conversation as much as

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Speaker 3: I did. Let's jump right in. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 3: have on with us today Nina Westbrook, who is a

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Speaker 3: licensed family therapist and just talking about stuff that nobody

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Speaker 3: else's talking about.

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Speaker 4: So I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: Although I'll try not to turn this into my own

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Speaker 3: personal therapy session.

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Speaker 4: That happens a lot.

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Speaker 3: Actually, it's really tempting with having you here on as

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Speaker 3: an expert. So Nina, welcome.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, Thanks so much. I'm so happy we get

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Speaker 5: to do this again.

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Speaker 3: I know this is our third attempt. We did it

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Speaker 3: once over Instagram Live that was a big success, and

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Speaker 3: then our second attempt was a fit and start because

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Speaker 3: I got stung by a bee the night before and

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Speaker 3: I'm allergic to bees. I don't know if you're.

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Speaker 5: Team just fan is allergic to bees? Like epipin allergic

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Speaker 5: to bees. So I totally get it.

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Speaker 3: Wait, me too, So that's what happens that I had

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Speaker 3: to use like a bunch of EpiPens and benajol the

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Speaker 3: night before.

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Speaker 4: So, Nina, I am so excited to have you on.

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Speaker 4: So just give us a little background.

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Speaker 5: I'm the wife of Russell Westboro, who's this crazy cool

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Speaker 5: basketball player.

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Speaker 4: And it was just always busy, hectic, and I feel like,

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Speaker 4: from like starting a.

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Speaker 5: Long time ago, I realized that mental health was going

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Speaker 5: to have to be a focus for me, and I wanted.

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Speaker 4: To use all the tools and my experiences to help

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Speaker 4: share and spread all of the knowledge that I've kind.

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Speaker 5: Of accumulated along the way and help people along their

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Speaker 5: mental health and wellness.

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Speaker 4: Journeys as well. I started out doing like.

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Speaker 5: Very regular, doing a lot of inpatient work. I did

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Speaker 5: outpatient work, community work. I've worked with all different populations.

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Speaker 5: I've done group therapy, individual family therapy, and.

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Speaker 4: So I feel like once I kind of got a good.

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Speaker 5: Grasp of that, things changed quickly for me, which I

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Speaker 5: know we're going to talk about later, but I had

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Speaker 5: to kind of figure out how to reinvent who I was,

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Speaker 5: what I was doing in a way that made sense

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Speaker 5: for me, which was really challenging because I actually really

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Speaker 5: love that one on one connect or that small intimate

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Speaker 5: connection that I would get, and it was so rewarding practicing.

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Speaker 4: As a licensed Margant family therapist.

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Speaker 5: So I feel like now I'm in an Ania space

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Speaker 5: and I would like to just get really into talking

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Speaker 5: about mental wellness as everyday life. I'm a very very regular, practical, quiet,

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Speaker 5: private introvert, so my intimate moments practicing as a licensed

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Speaker 5: Margan family therapist were really rewarding for me. I felt

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Speaker 5: like that was like my calling and it was something

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Speaker 5: that I was really good at and I just loved

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Speaker 5: to do.

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Speaker 4: It was my passion and as.

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Speaker 5: Being in a relationship with someone who's so high profile

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Speaker 5: had created a bit of an issue with the therapeutic relationship, right,

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Speaker 5: and so I was like, Okay, I don't know that

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Speaker 5: I can go do therapy with people and they want

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Speaker 5: to talk about this or that, or they see me

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Speaker 5: as this person rather than as their therapists here to

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Speaker 5: help them talk about their situation, what's going on in

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Speaker 5: their lives, work through different challenges. So I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: let me try this. I'm going to try opening this business,

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Speaker 5: and through lots of trial and error, I learned that, no,

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Speaker 5: this is where I want to be in the mental

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Speaker 5: health space. How can I fit this passion of mine

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Speaker 5: into my new everyday life, And so here I am.

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Speaker 5: I decided to create then a bay Nina, which is

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Speaker 5: a digital wellness platform where I can share lots of

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Speaker 5: information regarding mental.

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Speaker 4: Health and wellness.

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Speaker 5: And my goal is to make sure that we are

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Speaker 5: starting to see mental health and wellness as part of

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Speaker 5: our everyday lives rather than this big, abstract or scary

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Speaker 5: theme or topic. And so I feel like I'm now

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Speaker 5: doing it on a different level, but it's still.

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Speaker 4: Something I really enjoy and I'm very passionate about.

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Speaker 6: This is so interesting I talk a lot about I

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Speaker 6: kind of feel like the thesis for thinking about this is

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Speaker 6: how we can be doing so well in our career,

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Speaker 6: so we can have done everything right, and then there's

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Speaker 6: externalities that change it and that it's not possible in

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Speaker 6: the same form that it was before, and so we

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Speaker 6: have to be rethinking about how to redefine success. But

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Speaker 6: that feeling is frustrating on the career path, we were

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Speaker 6: doing everything right, like holding those two ideas in my head.

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Speaker 6: Took me, I think, a couple of years to realize

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Speaker 6: that both things could be true, Like it wasn't a

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Speaker 6: failure that I had work wise that derailed it, and

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Speaker 6: also acknowledging that like, yes, my career is in fact

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Speaker 6: derailed in the form that I thought it was going

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Speaker 6: to be, and so I have to reimagine what success

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Speaker 6: is going to look like.

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Speaker 5: This kind of plays into that something positive happens though

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Speaker 5: it's negative. Maybe you think it's negative, but it turns

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Speaker 5: out to be positive. And I see feel like as

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Speaker 5: the introvert.

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Speaker 4: That I am, there was a lot it took me

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Speaker 4: a long time.

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Speaker 5: It took me a long time to cope and process

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Speaker 5: the fact that I could not do things the way that.

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Speaker 4: I had imagined and planned them to be.

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Speaker 5: Similar to having kids, and when you think like that

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Speaker 5: whole idea of getting back, it's kind of a total

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Speaker 5: same concept in terms of trying to figure out what

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Speaker 5: I'm going to be doing moving forward and how that

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Speaker 5: wrapping my mind around that and how do I take

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Speaker 5: myself out of my comfort zone right and something I

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Speaker 5: was very familiar and comfortable and happy and really good

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Speaker 5: at and now moving into a situation that's a little

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Speaker 5: bit more less familiar.

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Speaker 3: What are things that you are seeing now, like, what

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Speaker 3: are trends that you're seeing as a therapist that you

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Speaker 3: do want to make sure that people are are bringing

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Speaker 3: to light, like are bringing to the service.

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Speaker 5: This is a really important topic because I feel like

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Speaker 5: in family settings, we're learning that communication is actually a

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Speaker 5: good thing, and how we communicate with our kids or

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Speaker 5: how children communicate.

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Speaker 4: With our parents or is going to give us us

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Speaker 4: so much information.

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Speaker 5: And as parents, we want to be able to create

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Speaker 5: space and create environments where we can our kids feel

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Speaker 5: comfortable communicating, whether it's about the things that are happening

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Speaker 5: at school, their feelings, emotions, hard difficult times that they're

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Speaker 5: going through. Modeling that behavior, modeling that communication has become

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Speaker 5: quite the thing. I'm sure you've heard of all your

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Speaker 5: kids are young, all the different parenting styles even in

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Speaker 5: families now like gentle parenting, and there's so many trends

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Speaker 5: and we try our best to kind of, you know,

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Speaker 5: utilize whatever, take different parts that work for us or

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Speaker 5: feel like feel good to us, and our use them

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Speaker 5: and our family family units. But overall I think that

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Speaker 5: communication and is a huge trend and being more open

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Speaker 5: within families is becoming a lot more acceptable, and the

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Speaker 5: vulnerability of all of it is great. So I love

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Speaker 5: to see the trajectory of that just continuing to increase.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do feel like people are more comfortable now

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Speaker 3: talking about, you know, saying they are in therapy, they've

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Speaker 3: been in therapy, or using words like you know, it's

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Speaker 3: sort of like normal. It's much more normalized, which I

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Speaker 3: think is great that we're thinking about our mental health

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Speaker 3: in that way.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I wonder from.

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Speaker 3: A family and relationship perspective, I feel like everybody's relationship

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Speaker 3: took a toll during COVID, Like we just are not

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Speaker 3: meant to spend that much time together, and like it

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Speaker 3: was like just too much for pretty much everyone I

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Speaker 3: know totally it was Yeah, what are you seeing?

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I've just been reading a lot, and

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Speaker 5: I've learned, like I've recently read something about the fact

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Speaker 5: that isolation is the highest form of like it leads

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Speaker 5: to the to depression, which we already knew that, But

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Speaker 5: when you talk about the pandemic and how so many

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Speaker 5: of us were isolated, whether we were together or by ourselves,

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Speaker 5: I feel like the isolation from the outside world in

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Speaker 5: general even if you're in a family unit not having

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Speaker 5: normal social interactions.

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Speaker 4: But it took a really big toll on.

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Speaker 5: All of us, especially those who are already kind of

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Speaker 5: managing some mental health illnesses or mental health things like

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Speaker 5: anxiety or depression. It definitely exasperated that. I think that

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Speaker 5: we found out the importance of social connection and human connection,

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Speaker 5: and it's research has proven that we do better, We

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Speaker 5: thrive as human beings when we are well connected. So

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Speaker 5: the more connected you are, the better you are socially, emotionally, mentally,

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Speaker 5: and the less connected you are, you're not thriving as much.

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Speaker 5: It takes a huge toll on our social and emotional wellness.

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Speaker 3: The Surgeon General has been on a tour talking about

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Speaker 3: this again recently, the Surgeon General of Bec Murphy, who

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Speaker 3: I love dearly and actually is a dear friend, he

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Speaker 3: said that loneliness takes a physical toll on you, and

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Speaker 3: he wrote a whole book about it. I think the

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Speaker 3: thing that he said recently that's been getting more attention

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Speaker 3: is that being lonely has the same physical impact as

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Speaker 3: being his habitual smoker.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Look, it has the same impact on your body, I know.

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Speaker 5: And that's another big thing that a lot of us

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Speaker 5: are finally starting to recognize is the connection between our

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Speaker 5: physical being and our mental being. So they're so intertwined,

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Speaker 5: and most people don't really realize that. We grow up

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Speaker 5: really focusing on our physical health, but when it comes

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Speaker 5: to our physical wellness and how our mental health is

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Speaker 5: completely connected to how we feel physically, whether it be

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Speaker 5: through our eating habits or exercise, whatever the case may be.

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Speaker 5: We have those chemical bodies that help us to do

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Speaker 5: better and feel.

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Speaker 4: Happier when we're moving our body.

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Speaker 5: So that's an example of a direct correlation between our

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Speaker 5: physical and our mental So it's really great that more

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Speaker 5: information is coming out and really connecting the two. And

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Speaker 5: I feel like it's always been like a huge mission

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Speaker 5: of mine with bene By Nina to help educate and

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Speaker 5: share how our everyday lives are so intertwined in the

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Speaker 5: things that we do and how they directly impact our

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Speaker 5: mental health. And it's not like this big thing. It's

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Speaker 5: just like every little thing that we do throughout the

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Speaker 5: day is impacting our mental health in some way, shape

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Speaker 5: or form.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, so let's go to bene by by Nina.

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Speaker 3: Let's back up here. Okay, so you've got your degree,

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Speaker 3: and then what happened walk us through your trajectory.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know what.

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Speaker 5: I actually started off as an English major, which I loved.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't quite exactly what I was expecting, so I

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Speaker 5: tacked on a minor. I tacked on psychology, clinical psychology,

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Speaker 5: and I went on to get my license in marriage

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Speaker 5: and family therapy, and.

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Speaker 4: That's been great for me.

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Speaker 5: I feel like growing up, I was always this kind

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Speaker 5: of person who's really interested in people, in their relationships

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Speaker 5: and how they were thinking, and how they were feeling,

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Speaker 5: and wanting to connect with other people.

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Speaker 4: So that always came naturally to me.

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Speaker 5: Once I started studying marriage and family therapy, it didn't

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Speaker 5: feel like school, it didn't feel like work.

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Speaker 4: It was just fun. I loved it.

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Speaker 5: I couldn't wait to go to class be with my

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Speaker 5: classmates and my professors. That's where things kind of started.

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Speaker 5: And then I went on. I did a lot of

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Speaker 5: community work. I did a lot of impatient work. I

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Speaker 5: worked in school, so I worked with the geriatric community.

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Speaker 5: I did a lot of mental health work in different

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Speaker 5: various organizations across between California and Oklahoma. And then I

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Speaker 5: got pregnant with my first kid and I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: this is great. I'm trying to kind of manage being

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Speaker 5: in a small town where my husband is quite popular

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Speaker 5: and I'm practicing as a mental health professional, and it

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Speaker 5: kind of creates a little bit of a tricky dynamic

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Speaker 5: for therapists to have with their clients. So I did

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Speaker 5: a pivot, went into I wanted to test the waters

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Speaker 5: in my entrepreneurial journey, and that's been great.

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Speaker 4: It was really cool.

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Speaker 5: I opened up a store, got really interested in lots

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Speaker 5: of baby things and bringing in community experts, lactation experts,

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Speaker 5: and partnering with hospitals and trying to give as much

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Speaker 5: communication and access as I can within that space mommy

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Speaker 5: and me classes. The focus became community even though it

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Speaker 5: was a retail store, because that, at the core of

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Speaker 5: things was my passion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually, I think we should probably give a

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Speaker 3: little context here. I want to come back and dig

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Speaker 3: into this point about trying to be a therapist in

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Speaker 3: a community where you are associated with a well known spouse,

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Speaker 3: which is such an interesting dynamic to think about.

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Speaker 5: As you know, because I know you're very familiar with therapy,

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Speaker 5: you know there has to be a specific dynamic between

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Speaker 5: the patient or the client and the therapist, and it

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Speaker 5: kind of made it impossible for me to maintain that

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Speaker 5: anonymity that I needed.

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Speaker 4: And so I had to pivot and figure.

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Speaker 5: Out how I can fulfill my passion and do what

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Speaker 5: I love, but in a way that made more sense

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Speaker 5: for my lifestyle. I was also moving quite often from

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Speaker 5: state to state, so that also made it.

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Speaker 3: Difficult because of which team he was on.

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Speaker 5: What team he was on were Also, we've always been

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Speaker 5: based in LA.

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Speaker 4: In the off seasons, we would travel to LA.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of hard to keep clients when I'm moving

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Speaker 5: around so often.

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Speaker 4: And that led me into my business.

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Speaker 3: Did you have to license state by state to practice?

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Speaker 4: Yes, you do. You have to.

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Speaker 5: I mean there's a national exam, there's a route that

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Speaker 5: you can take to get licensed nationally. But I did

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Speaker 5: some of my licensing hours in California that were also

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Speaker 5: accepted in Oklahoma. I did a lot of work in

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Speaker 5: Oklahoma towards my licensure. That process actually took me forever,

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Speaker 5: just because I was practicing on and off. In the summers,

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Speaker 5: I wasn't practicing, and then during the season I would

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Speaker 5: be practicing. So it took me some years to finally

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Speaker 5: get there, but I did, and it just made it

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Speaker 5: so much better.

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Speaker 3: Were you able to find community when you were in

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Speaker 3: the when you were in season and you were practicing,

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Speaker 3: or how did you find community when you were practicing,

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Speaker 3: because I think that working as a licensed therapist is

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Speaker 3: not the traditional thought about professional athletes spouses right totally.

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Speaker 5: I feel like it's always been really important to me

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Speaker 5: to have my own identity and have my own connections

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Speaker 5: in my own community. Like you said, I think there

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Speaker 5: I've always had a knack for kind of latching onto

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Speaker 5: or connecting with people that I felt were going to

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Speaker 5: help me and had genuine interest in helping me to

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Speaker 5: get to where I wanted to be, whether that be

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Speaker 5: like connecting with the right supervisors or getting in the

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Speaker 5: right doors and working in the right places where I

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Speaker 5: felt like I was going to be taught and that

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Speaker 5: I was going to be welcomed and that I felt

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Speaker 5: really good about the program also because that.

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Speaker 4: Was really important to me.

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Speaker 5: Mental health is such a significant thing, and a lot

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Speaker 5: of the times when you're working, especially in patient, you're

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Speaker 5: working with some very fragile people were going through some

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Speaker 5: very traumatic things. So the process of how things were

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Speaker 5: being done there had to be a lot of trust

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Speaker 5: and support from other people, which I definitely found a

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Speaker 5: community outside of the traditional basketball wives community or team community.

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Speaker 5: So it's I've always been able to kind of find

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Speaker 5: my tribe.

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Speaker 3: Did you have community within basketball as well, or you've

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Speaker 3: always really searched for your own I.

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Speaker 5: Mean, I definitely did, because it's a very small, tight

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Speaker 5: knit community, and I feel like the experience of all

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Speaker 5: of it is not something that's extremely common. And so

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Speaker 5: I've met so many of my lifelong friends through my

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Speaker 5: husband's playing basketball, whether it be coaches wives or.

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Speaker 4: His teammates' spouses.

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Speaker 5: I feel like we we all kind of have a

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Speaker 5: very similar journey that most people don't really understand or

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Speaker 5: couldn't connect to, and so you can't help but to

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Speaker 5: really bond with people.

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Speaker 3: Part of what I was asking about when can you

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Speaker 3: license in both states? Because the way you were describing

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Speaker 3: it made me think about when President Obama was in office,

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Speaker 3: the first Lady Michelle Obama and at that time, the

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Speaker 3: second Lady Jill Biden, had a big initiative to help

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Speaker 3: military spouses work, and one of the big things they

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Speaker 3: did was make licensing and teaching and in nursing and

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Speaker 3: I imagine probably therapy as well, transferable across states because

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Speaker 3: as their spouses would get deployed and transferred to different

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Speaker 3: states around the country, they didn't have time to read

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Speaker 3: license and so they couldn't work, and so that actually

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Speaker 3: made them able to work. And the more you're describing

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Speaker 3: the community, I actually am seeing even more parallels.

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Speaker 4: Well, that was huge when that happened.

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Speaker 5: I actually remember when that happened and I was like

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Speaker 5: thinking to myself, oh my goodness, this would work really

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Speaker 5: well for me too. Obviously it's not quite the same situation,

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Speaker 5: but having to move did make it challenging in this

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Speaker 5: profession when you have to be licensed per each state. Now,

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Speaker 5: I will say that telehealth has completely changed things because

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Speaker 5: you can be practicing in your state and talking to

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Speaker 5: a like via telehealth, and your therapist could be located elsewhere.

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Speaker 5: Whereas when I was first coming, when I first started,

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Speaker 5: and when I was first out of college, which is

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Speaker 5: so crazy.

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Speaker 4: Things were so different. Being a therapist was like you

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Speaker 4: sit in front of the person. It's very it's in person.

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Speaker 4: We don't want to do telehealth.

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Speaker 5: We don't want like you can't trust the security of it.

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Speaker 4: Like it was very ingrained in us that we needed

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Speaker 4: to be in person.

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Speaker 5: You don't really want to be talking to your clients

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Speaker 5: on the phone, and now everything is preferred to be

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Speaker 5: over the computer, over the phone.

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Speaker 4: So that has helped a lot.

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Speaker 5: I see a therapist, but my therapist is in a

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Speaker 5: different state, and so yeah, so being licensed as long

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Speaker 5: as you're where you are and you're practicing and the

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Speaker 5: rules could change, don't take you know, the rules could

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Speaker 5: change vary from state to state, but you can see

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Speaker 5: clients that are not in the same state as long

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Speaker 5: as you're in that state.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's super interesting how the fields evolved exactly. Did

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Speaker 3: you watch Shrinking?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Love Shrinking. It is like one of my favorite shows

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Speaker 5: right now. I'm so sorry it's sober.

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Speaker 3: Oh I know. I was like, please do not end now.

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Speaker 3: I need this.

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Speaker 4: It was so good.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So as a therapist and as a black woman therapist,

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Speaker 3: because that was a big theme in the last couple

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Speaker 3: of episodes that she was like, people need to see

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Speaker 3: more black women therapists and to normalize therapy, and like

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Speaker 3: I need to be visible. There's a big thing at

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Speaker 3: the end of the last couple episodes. Mm hmm, Like

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Speaker 3: I was so I loved everything about the show, but like,

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Speaker 3: I want to know what you saw in it.

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Speaker 5: I thought it was really funny. I thought it was

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Speaker 5: a really great show. There were a lot of things

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Speaker 5: that happened where a lot of boundaries were cross and

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Speaker 5: you could kind of see all of the therapists like

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00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 5: holding each other accountable for the things that were happening

405
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Speaker 5: that were not quite ethical, so like his client moving

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Speaker 5: in with him, and like becoming friends and still continuing

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Speaker 5: to see him, Like that's not something you would typically

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Speaker 5: see in real life.

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Speaker 4: You know what I love about it?

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Speaker 5: I feel like it definitely humanized therapists because as much

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Speaker 5: as the relationship between your therapist is so important, they're

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Speaker 5: just people too, And this happens a lot, you know.

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Speaker 5: I've learned that people jump from therapists to therapist quite

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Speaker 5: often because there's something that might be said that might

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Speaker 5: rub them the wrong way one time, or they made

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Speaker 5: them feel uncomfortable, which therapists typically tend to do that

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Speaker 5: when talking about certain things that we are not usually

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Speaker 5: are accustomed to talking to. And I've seen that and

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Speaker 5: noticed that as a thing, like when the therapist says

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Speaker 5: one thing or does one thing, then you're ready to

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Speaker 5: run where I'm like, well, this is a look at

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Speaker 5: actual people that aren't therapists. But they're messy, their lives

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Speaker 5: are messy. They can go into a therapy session which

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Speaker 5: something really crazy just happened before, like anyone else, maybe

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Speaker 5: they're not on top of their.

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Speaker 4: Game that day. I just thought it was so interesting

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Speaker 4: and fun to see.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I loved it so much. Okay, so tell us

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Speaker 3: about the cards.

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Speaker 5: I created Do Tell because I wanted to. I love

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Speaker 5: having conversations. I'm the person who is at dinner doing

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Speaker 5: like all the fun little thought provoking ice breakers and

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Speaker 5: things like that, and so do Tell actually was inspired

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Speaker 5: by my husband, which we used to play this game

435
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 5: when we were in college, where.

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Speaker 4: We would just ask.

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00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 5: It was like a question game and we could ask

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Speaker 5: each other any question we wanted. You had to answer,

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00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 5: And that was my way of getting more communication from him,

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00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 5: who he's not much of a talker, so and also

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Speaker 5: building a deeper connection and getting down to some more important,

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Speaker 5: serious topics.

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Speaker 4: And that's what I wanted to do with the game.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to create a fun way for people to interact.

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Speaker 4: It's a game, so it feels a little.

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Speaker 5: Less dauntem and it's just each question is used to

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Speaker 5: provoke like thought and self reflection, whether it's about yourself

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00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 5: and your personal interest or your relationships. I wanted to

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Speaker 5: create a game that's going to give you some thought

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Speaker 5: and insight into the things that your goal that are

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Speaker 5: going on in our everyday lives that we don't take

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Speaker 5: the time out to really think about normally because we're

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Speaker 5: all so busy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and where can people find it?

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Speaker 5: I mean social media, my Instagram. You can go to

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Speaker 5: Dotailcardgame dot com and purchase it, and there's lots of

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Speaker 5: videos that share like how you play. And I've played

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Speaker 5: with couples, I've played with girlfriends, I've played with my husband,

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Speaker 5: my family, my parents. It checks the boxes for each

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Speaker 5: group of people and it's fun.

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Speaker 4: Everyone always wants to keep playing.

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Speaker 3: I love that well. Nina Westbrook, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining us in our Candon conversation. It's so great

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Speaker 3: to have you on she Pivots.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much, it was always so great talking

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Speaker 4: to you.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode of she Pivots.

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00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: Check back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women.

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Speaker 3: To learn more about our guests follow us on Instagram

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00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 3: at she pivots the podcast. Leave a rating and comment

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Speaker 3: if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it.

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Speaker 3: A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and

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Speaker 3: the team that made this episode possible. Talk to you

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Speaker 3: next week. She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman,

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00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: produced by Emily Eda Voloshik, with sound editing and mixing

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00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 3: from Nina Pollock and research and planning from Christine Dickinson

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Speaker 3: and Hannah Cousins.

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Speaker 5: I endorse che Pivots