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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five, or.

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Speaker 2: Shot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, trust Me.

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Speaker 2: I'm like a swat person. I've never lived to you,

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Speaker 2: and we never have a.

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Speaker 1: Live about If you think that one person has all

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Speaker 1: the answers, don't Welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cult,

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Speaker 1: extreme belief and the abusive power from two officionados who

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Speaker 1: actually experienced it. I am Low La Blanc and I

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Speaker 1: am Megan Elizabeth. And Today our guest is Jennings Brown,

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Speaker 1: reporter and host of podcasts The Gateway and now a

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Speaker 1: new podcast called Revelations, in which he does a deep

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Speaker 1: dive into a mysterious religious organization called the Fellowship of Friends.

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Speaker 1: He's going to tell us about what it was like

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Speaker 1: on their lavish compound full of art and theater and

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Speaker 1: wine and hand selected palm trees, and spending time with

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Speaker 1: the members in the week leading up to their doomsday date,

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Speaker 1: and what happened when the apocalypse spoiler didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: Spoiled it. God. We're also going to talk about why

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Speaker 2: people don't leave after their profits prophecies don't come true.

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Speaker 2: Some of the allegations of sexual assault that have come

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Speaker 2: out against the group's leader and the orgy that was

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Speaker 2: described as being like going to the DMV.

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Speaker 1: That's not a good Yeah. No, there will be descriptions

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault in case you hadn't gathered that from

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Speaker 1: us mentioning the sexual assault. But so that is your warning, folks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, before we get into all of that.

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Speaker 1: Jennings, it's awesome. This podcast is amazing. You' all should

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Speaker 1: all listen to it. Megan, Yes, what's the cultiest thing

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Speaker 1: that's happening this week?

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Speaker 2: Well, haven't left my house a lot this week, to

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Speaker 2: be honest.

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Speaker 1: What else is new?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? What else is new? I'm still blaming covid. IM

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Speaker 2: not sure how much longer I can do that for,

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Speaker 2: but for now it's because of that. Sure?

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 2: Sure? So I'm just going to talk about a news

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Speaker 2: story because it's kind of crazy. I don't know who's

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Speaker 2: all heard about yet, but basically, in New Mexico, there

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Speaker 2: is a Mennonite woman twenty seven years old teacher. She

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Speaker 2: was taken from the Mennonite school she teaches at and

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Speaker 2: viciously beaten and murdered. And the person that they have

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Speaker 2: arrested in relation to doing the crime is an ex

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Speaker 2: Mennonite man who joined the Air Force. And oh, so

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Speaker 2: they're saying that he was kind of motivated by her

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Speaker 2: to get revenge on this religion that he had grown

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Speaker 2: up in and didn't like.

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Speaker 4: Motivated by her, just like he got triggered by seeing

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Speaker 4: somebody in this that's what they're saying, Like he you know,

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Speaker 4: and she's teaching little kids that at school, so maybe

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Speaker 4: he was just like fuck this shit.

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Speaker 2: But then you know, the Mennonites are saying that he

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Speaker 2: was just so mad because he lost out on heaven

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Speaker 2: and so oh he is taking it out on her.

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Speaker 2: So you know, there's the two sides. It's like some

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Speaker 2: people are saying, he got abused, so he's mad, and

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Speaker 2: other people are saying, like, he's mad because he's not

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Speaker 2: going to heaven with us.

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Speaker 1: Did he get kicked out do we know? Or did

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Speaker 1: he leave all he left? Yeah, well, well kicked out

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Speaker 1: of heaven, but kicked out of the group or voluntarily

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Speaker 1: leaving the group.

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Speaker 2: He voluntarily left the group. Oh but you're still kicked

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Speaker 2: out of Heaven.

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Speaker 1: Sure, but if you leave the group, doesn't that mean

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Speaker 1: you no longer believe that you're getting kicked out of Heaven?

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Speaker 2: I know, but haven't we interviewed everyone? And it's like,

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Speaker 2: down inside, there's this little part of me that's still scared.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, according to the.

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Speaker 2: Mennonits, he's mad because he got kicked out of Okay, okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's alive and so ye yeah, okay. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: Well I already read about this even though you sent

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Speaker 1: me the link because I'm a bad person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but a great fair.

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Speaker 1: We'll be curious to see what comes out about that.

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Speaker 1: And we should also totally interview a former Mennonite.

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Speaker 2: I know, where are they?

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Speaker 1: They're around?

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Speaker 2: Are they? Yes? Where?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: They're all dead, Like I feel like I haven't. I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen one out in the wild in a minute.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think they wear signs that say former men.

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Speaker 2: I've asked them to, but they said no.

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Speaker 1: You've asked them to, but you've never seen the Megan,

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Speaker 1: what's the real story?

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Speaker 2: I wrote it in an airplane message up in the sky.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna take that, all right.

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Speaker 2: What's the craziest the cultiest thing that happened to you

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Speaker 2: this week?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 1: No about crazy, but I'm pretty sure I'm reusing one here.

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Speaker 1: But guys, we've been.

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Speaker 3: Doing this for a year.

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Speaker 2: Also shout out.

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Speaker 1: Can we just acknowledge that we've been doing this.

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Speaker 2: For a year? So crazy?

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Speaker 1: We this is our fifty first episode, but we've skipped

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Speaker 1: a few weeks, so it has been actually more than

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Speaker 1: a year. I can't believe it. Somewhere around a year ago,

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Speaker 1: maybe this was my cultiest thing, but I will do

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Speaker 1: it again, and it is that I am sort of

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Speaker 1: dying to be in the cult of Sun Dance.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's a cult. Yeah, do it totally.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm not saying the organization is actually

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Speaker 1: harmful or beuif anyway, but I'm saying the way that

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Speaker 1: people are like obsessed with it and like dying to

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Speaker 1: get in into.

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Speaker 2: This like very elite group.

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Speaker 1: Like yes, and I'm one of them. I want to

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Speaker 1: get in. For the first time, I've submitted to their labs.

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Speaker 1: They have these screenwriting labs in which you go to

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Speaker 1: Park City and you do a whole mentorship for like

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Speaker 1: a week and workshop your script, and you get to

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Speaker 1: meet all kinds of people and then you're like in

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Speaker 1: the club. I've applied three times. This is my fourth

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Speaker 1: time applying, and this time I was referred by two

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Speaker 1: industry people to go directly around to monopoly style, which

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Speaker 1: happens all the time. It was just the first year

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Speaker 1: I've ever gotten that.

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Speaker 2: Well, in cult terms, it would be like Jesus talking

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Speaker 2: to God for you, sure, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine it'd be more like upper leadership talking

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Speaker 1: to the prophet.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you want to take it down to Earth, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: I'm really out.

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Speaker 1: There, so it's quite God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, you're right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I worked very very hard on finishing this

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Speaker 1: draft of my script that has taken me literally years

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Speaker 1: to get a readable draft. Like I don't know why

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Speaker 1: it's but I guess I just didn't really know how

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Speaker 1: to write when I started. So it's completely changed and

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Speaker 1: completely changed and completely changed. So now a girl will

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Speaker 1: just sit and wait. The chances are I won't get in,

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Speaker 1: but I'm.

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Speaker 2: Just like, please let me in. I think the chances

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Speaker 2: are high.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Megan, you're basing that on.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, just the feeling I'm getting in the

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Speaker 2: air right now, So you can pretty much just book

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Speaker 2: your ticket.

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Speaker 1: I will take that magical thinking. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: it is called magical thinking my script. Oh yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: inspired bys in real life experiences. Whatever you guys like,

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Speaker 1: maybe in a few years, I don't know, that's my thing.

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Speaker 1: I just really want to give guys. Don't don't ask

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Speaker 1: me if I got in, because I will tell you

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Speaker 1: if I did, and if I didn't, it will just

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Speaker 1: be painful.

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Speaker 2: Because this never happened. Yea sundance doesn't exist. That's all.

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Speaker 1: That's a cool all right, let's listen.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk to.

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Speaker 6: Jennings Jennings Brown, Welcome.

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Speaker 2: To the show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thanks so much for having me, Thanks so much.

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Speaker 1: For coming on. So you are the creator of a

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Speaker 1: podcast that we love called The Gateway, which came out

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Speaker 1: a few years ago and centered around woman named Teal Swan,

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Speaker 1: who we've talked about quite a bit on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: But now you have a new podcast out called Revelations

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Speaker 1: about a different group called the Fellowship of Friends. First

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Speaker 1: of all, so you kind of discover like you learned

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Speaker 1: about Fellowship of Friends when you were doing the Teal

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Speaker 1: Swan podcast. Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 5: I was in Costa Rica at Teal's Phillia Center, her

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Speaker 5: healing retreat, hoarding the Gateway, and kind of immersed.

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Speaker 3: Myself of the community. I mean, she knew I was.

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Speaker 5: I was reporting a podcast that wasn't like undercover or anything.

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Speaker 5: But met her and her then husband, who I think was, yeah,

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Speaker 5: her fourth husband, and he mentioned that I guess he

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Speaker 5: understood cults because he said because he said he actually

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Speaker 5: his spiritual journey began when he joined this group that

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Speaker 5: he later realized was this predatory cult. And the way

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Speaker 5: he described it, it sounded like fantasy. It was this

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Speaker 5: strange like monastery of refinement out in the wilderness of California,

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Speaker 5: and they had a vineyard and they were all about

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Speaker 5: like high culture, and they collected Renaissance art. They brought

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Speaker 5: in opera and ballet, and you know, it just it

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Speaker 5: sounded like this strange fantasy world that was so fascinating.

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Speaker 5: I mean, they have forty four angels that guide them.

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Speaker 5: It's rem brand Da Vinci Bach, Lewis Carroll.

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Speaker 2: One woman right, Queen Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is Queen Elizabeth, the Virgin queen right.

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Speaker 1: Forty three men, Okay, got it? Forty three men, one woman.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I don't know.

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Speaker 5: At one point I knew that, but I was just drawn,

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Speaker 5: just like such a strange world. I like reporting on

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Speaker 5: kind of on spiritual groups and French communities for a

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Speaker 5: lot of reasons. But one thing is when you're telling

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Speaker 5: these sort of immersive podcasts, the world building is already there.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I wanted to check it out. It seemed

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Speaker 5: like there could be an interesting story there. I started

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Speaker 5: looking into it. There were some allegations that the leader

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Speaker 5: had sexually abused a minor in the nineties, but there

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Speaker 5: was no reporting on it since then. So I was

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Speaker 5: just really curious. I mean in the fact that they

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Speaker 5: had existed for basically fifty years, and I mean they

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Speaker 5: hadn't been on my radar, and I've reported on this

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Speaker 5: stuff for a while.

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Speaker 3: So I went out.

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Speaker 5: There, and as luck would have it, I guess they

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Speaker 5: were preparing for their next doomsday. The leader predicts when

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Speaker 5: the world's going to end. Every ten years or so,

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Speaker 5: he has a new prediction which he gets from the angels.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, this is an incredible opportunity as

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Speaker 5: a journalist who reports on spiritual groups. I was able

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Speaker 5: to just see how the community would prepare for the

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Speaker 5: end of the world and just what happened when the

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Speaker 5: world presumably didn't end I mean spoiler alert the world

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 1: D yeah yeah, yeah, what a great like setup for

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Speaker 1: a podcast and also just thing to experience, like this

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Speaker 1: is the I feel like this is the thing that

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Speaker 1: everyone always wants to know that I always want to know,

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Speaker 1: like what happens on that doomsday date and like what

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Speaker 1: happens when it doesn't pan out the way that they

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Speaker 1: planned it?

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Speaker 2: And before you answer that, I just also wonder, like

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Speaker 2: what is it to be immersed in that. Is there

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Speaker 2: a moment if you go deep enough that you're like,

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Speaker 2: holy shit, is the world about to end? Like did

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Speaker 2: you have a minute of that at all?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 5: I was more worried that they would kind of engineer

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Speaker 5: their own sort of apocalypse scenario and like like right

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Speaker 5: Jones Waco sense, And not to suggest that they are

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Speaker 5: like a suicide group or or you know, anything like that,

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Speaker 5: but I had heard that they were collecting guns and

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Speaker 5: kind of preparing because the thing is, the rest of

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Speaker 5: the world is going to end and they are going

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Speaker 5: to survive, and they are going to build a new world.

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Speaker 3: Order based on their kind of dogma.

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Speaker 5: And I mean, you know, they've been collecting what they

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Speaker 5: see as the best of civilization, which is noticeably Western European.

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Speaker 5: You know, all the angels, most of there are Renaissance.

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Speaker 5: So there is kind of like a West is Best legends,

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Speaker 5: white supremacist kind of nature to that, the idea that, yeah,

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Speaker 5: they're collecting the best of civilization, and that is very

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Speaker 5: specific to Robert the leader's interest.

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Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, before we get too deep, I just

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Speaker 1: want to like circle back to Tilswan for one second,

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Speaker 1: because I have to know, first of all, how many

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Speaker 1: husbands has she had, because you just just mentioned her

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Speaker 1: fourth husband being the one that A learned you to

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Speaker 1: this group. How many husbands as she had.

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Speaker 5: I believe for I don't know what her romantic partnerships

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Speaker 5: have been like since then, but they divorced. I actually

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Speaker 5: I witnessed sort of the downfall of their marriage when

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Speaker 5: I was out there. Oh yeah, it was very It

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Speaker 5: was very interesting when there was kind of some tension.

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Speaker 5: La wasn't really fitting into the group, and Teal was

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Speaker 5: kind of pointing that out, and I guess he sort

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Speaker 5: of got out of the group and out of the

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Speaker 5: marriage soon after that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask, like he came from

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Speaker 1: this other group and then ends up and of course

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Speaker 1: this very cult like other situation. Did he recognize that

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Speaker 1: is that was that one of them?

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Speaker 5: I think he was sort of saying that because you know,

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Speaker 5: Teal helps a lot of you know, one of our

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Speaker 5: focuses helping people who left cults. I mean, that's its

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Speaker 5: own kind of can of worms. You know that a

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Speaker 5: lot of times, like Satanic cults, as I go into

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Speaker 5: the gateway, there's there's an extreme Satanic panic component of it,

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Speaker 5: which I know Yelp talked about before. So I think

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Speaker 5: he was kind of saying like he understood the dynamics

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Speaker 5: of that, and he understood how Teal helped these people.

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Speaker 5: And I feel like he was sort of saying that

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Speaker 5: I know that Teal's not a cult leader because you know.

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Speaker 3: I experienced it and this is not that interesting.

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Speaker 5: And then he went on to change his name to

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Speaker 5: Valant and started a spiritual community.

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Speaker 3: No, these things just kind of him.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, did he start this?

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Speaker 3: I think somewhere in Utah?

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, after this is over, I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 1: you more questions about that, but let's focus back on

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Speaker 1: the new podcast because it's so so great. Yes, all right,

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Speaker 1: walk us through the beginnings of the experience. Also, can

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Speaker 1: we discuss the parrot because I was obsessed with that

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Speaker 1: little just like Nugget podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I was driving out there for the first I

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Speaker 5: wanted to go, like a month before. I knew that

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Speaker 5: there was some sort of apocalyptic element, but I and

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Speaker 5: I kind of had a loose state, but I wasn't

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Speaker 5: really sure. I really just wanted to see the community.

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Speaker 5: And I went out there and they invited me. I mean,

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Speaker 5: they have a vineyard. They're very renowned in the wine

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Speaker 5: community for their wine. I mean, they were kind of

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Speaker 5: pioneers in the natural wine movement. New Yorker even did

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Speaker 5: a story last year about natural wine and kind of

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Speaker 5: focused on them as a component of it. So they

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Speaker 5: invited me out for two of the winery, and I

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Speaker 5: think they were going to kind of feel me out

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Speaker 5: and see if I could do more. So I went

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Speaker 5: out there with the invitation and I was ended up

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Speaker 5: getting there like late at night, middle of the night.

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Speaker 5: My airbnb host I didn't plan it, but he is

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Speaker 5: a member of the Fellowship because it basically everybody who

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Speaker 5: lives out there is a member, because it's a very

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Speaker 5: small community. So I get there and I realize it's

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Speaker 5: very clear, just kind of the way he speaks and

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Speaker 5: dresses that he is a member of the Fellowship, or

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Speaker 5: at least I kind of started to put it together.

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Speaker 3: I go to his back house.

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Speaker 5: It's late at night, it's like, there's no cell service,

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Speaker 5: just surrounded by tall pine rosa palm trees. It just

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Speaker 5: like feels very like I am in the thick of it.

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Speaker 5: And woke up a few hours later this screaming outside

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Speaker 5: my window, and I had no idea what it was.

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Speaker 3: It was this parrot screeching.

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Speaker 5: And I found out later that Robert the Leader used

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Speaker 5: to have these parrots in his home, this mansion, this

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Speaker 5: palatial mansion he lives in, and I guess he got

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Speaker 5: sick of the noise that made, so he gave it

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Speaker 5: to When he gets kind of tired of his things,

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Speaker 5: he gives them to members, or sometimes he has them

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Speaker 5: buy the things from him. And these are things that

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Speaker 5: he I think buys with Fellowship money. So it's but anyway,

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Speaker 5: so I wake up to this parrot screaming and is screaming, oh.

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Speaker 3: My god, oh my god, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Wow Pervt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the beginning.

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Speaker 5: I was like, wow, this is how it all begins,

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Speaker 5: Like this is my window into that world. And so

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Speaker 5: that's how it started. And I had this sort of

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Speaker 5: this invite to go out there. But as soon as

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Speaker 5: I was like feet away from the entrance to their

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Speaker 5: compound and I got a blip of cell service and

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Speaker 5: I had a message from the president. He runs the

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Speaker 5: business side of it, and he was kind of my

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Speaker 5: point person. He left the message saying that he was

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Speaker 5: sick he couldn't meet that day. Also, he looked me

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Speaker 5: up and wasn't really sure what kind of story I

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Speaker 5: wanted to do, and wasn't really sure if I could go.

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Speaker 5: So that trip I ended up spending just interviewing ex

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Speaker 5: members and they gave me a better sense of it,

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Speaker 5: and they were kind of like giving these ominous warnings

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Speaker 5: like please be careful, be prudent. Like also, you know,

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Speaker 5: they started telling me Robert targets his students, He praise

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Speaker 5: on his students and especially young men. And so I

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Speaker 5: had one ex member that was like yours type, I mean,

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Speaker 5: please be careful because you could get.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he said, nobody is.

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Speaker 5: And I believe this too, Like anybody is susceptible to

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Speaker 5: getting ingrained in high control communities.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he was like, yeah, I mean there are.

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Speaker 5: Doctors, there are lawyers, they are business people, Like anybody

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Speaker 5: can get pulled into this group. And if you get

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Speaker 5: pulled in, you fit the kind of physical characteristics of

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Speaker 5: somebody he would be interested in.

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Speaker 3: So please be careful.

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Speaker 5: Anyway, So I learned a lot about the group that trip,

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Speaker 5: and then I went back to New York and I

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Speaker 5: started talking to the president again, and he was like,

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Speaker 5: all right, we'll give you a chance because I you know,

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Speaker 5: I told him this is how I approach any group

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Speaker 5: I'm reporting on. Is I truly do want to underst

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm fascinated. I have a part of me

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Speaker 5: that's a bit of a seeker. I'm fascinated by these

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Speaker 5: spiritual beliefs and what draws people in. And I think

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Speaker 5: a lot of people find value and a lot of

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Speaker 5: get a lot of good tools from some of these groups.

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Speaker 5: And so he could read me and he was like,

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Speaker 5: he seem he'd tell that I had a genuine curiosity.

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Speaker 5: He was like all right, like come on out. So

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Speaker 5: I went back out for I mean, it was like

378
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Speaker 5: really perfect timing. He welcomed me out on the week

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Speaker 5: that the world was supposed to end. Amazing, and they

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Speaker 5: just brought me in and I started with the wine tour,

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Speaker 5: and I think they kind of felt me out through that,

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Speaker 5: and uh, I was kind of passed off to another

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Speaker 5: guy who gave me a little more intimate tour. Took

384
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Speaker 5: me to like their ap area where they were beekeeping,

385
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Speaker 5: and they have this beautiful amphitheater where they do performances.

386
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Speaker 5: They bring in like Russian ballet and opera, and it

387
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Speaker 5: just like I was just totally swept up in this

388
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Speaker 5: just beautiful, enchanting world. And then they finally, I mean

389
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Speaker 5: I got to meet members and they brought me to

390
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Speaker 5: their homes and kind of explained to me their dogma

391
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Speaker 5: other beliefs. And I got to be there when they

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Speaker 5: had their final black tie dinner before the world was

393
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Speaker 5: supposed to end, which felt very I mean it felt

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Speaker 5: very eyes wise shut to me.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's kind was kind of my part.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like.

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Speaker 5: All these these people in tuxes and women in gowns

398
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Speaker 5: just eating in Robert's home, and I was just kind

399
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Speaker 5: of on the periphery for that.

400
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Speaker 3: I didn't know to bring a tuxedo.

401
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Speaker 5: But fortunately my tour guide, my escort through it kind

402
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Speaker 5: of let me sort of sneak around on the periphery

403
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Speaker 5: and observe what was happening. And that was just fascinating

404
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 5: to observe. But the more I spoke to people, the

405
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Speaker 5: more I started hearing rumors that a lot of this

406
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Speaker 5: sort of Robert's sexual possibly predatory course of behavior had

407
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Speaker 5: maybe grown since like there reporting in the nineties, and

408
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Speaker 5: I started hearing about like sex rituals and things. So

409
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Speaker 5: I then was like, Okay, there seems to be so

410
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Speaker 5: much more than just like the Doom's Day prediction and

411
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Speaker 5: also observing it. I mean, this is, like I said,

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Speaker 5: He's had multiple predictions over the years, and each time

413
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Speaker 5: sometimes they'll lose some members, but the ones that stay

414
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 5: seem to become even more devoted. And the kind of

415
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Speaker 5: classical social psychological work on this is when prophecy fails.

416
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Speaker 5: Leon Festinger, the social psychologist, he in his fellow researchers

417
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 5: embedded in this doomsday cult in the fifties to see

418
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Speaker 5: what would happen and when the world didn't end, and

419
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Speaker 5: the leader she said, well, you know, the gods or

420
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Speaker 5: God rewarded us. And you know, then as the social

421
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Speaker 5: psychologist sort of found like when you're I mean that

422
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Speaker 5: it was basically the creates the beginning of his theory

423
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Speaker 5: of cognitive dissonance, which he then went on to create

424
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Speaker 5: the theory of cognitive dissonance, and it kind of stemmed

425
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Speaker 5: from him observing this doomsday cult where if when the

426
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Speaker 5: world doesn't end, you were given sort of two mental options.

427
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Speaker 5: I probably don't need to explain this, but you know,

428
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Speaker 5: it's like you either accept that okay, you were duped

429
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Speaker 5: and you gave up your family, your life savings, all

430
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Speaker 5: this for nothing, or they give you this convenient other option,

431
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Speaker 5: like actually it's great that like we showed a devotion

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Speaker 5: in the world an end, and like it's mentally easier

433
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Speaker 5: to take.

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Speaker 2: That yeah, double down.

435
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, But then that that gives over some sort of

436
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 5: power and agency this leader, because they are reshaping your

437
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 5: reality each time. And so with this group, he's done

438
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 5: it five times over, like fifty. So the people there

439
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 5: are just like so in deep and I saw that

440
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 5: devotion up close and personal, as these people are telling me,

441
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Speaker 5: you know, I'm interviewing him and they're like, I asked

442
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 5: him a question about these things, and they're like, you know,

443
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 5: it's not It's not on me. I'm a puppet in

444
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 5: the play. Because Robert teaches that the Fellowship is a

445
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 5: play written by the angels and everybody is just an

446
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 5: actor in the play.

447
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 1: So is that true of everyone on earth? Are we

448
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: all just living the play that the angels wrote for us?

449
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 1: Or is it just a fellowship?

450
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 5: I think like there is a larger play, but it's

451
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 5: specifically they talk about the play of the Fellowship.

452
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,640
Speaker 2: Of Friends and he's the director.

453
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 5: And Robert is the director because he's the only one

454
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 5: who knows the script, because he's the only one that

455
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 5: the angel speaks to.

456
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 2: What this is sounding like right now is kind of

457
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: that Nexium thing where it's like, is the doomsday shit

458
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 2: just like a front and a cover for this man

459
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: to have sex with a bunch of people. Because I

460
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,959
Speaker 2: don't think Keith Narey even cares about any of the

461
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 2: stuff he was talking about. I think he just wanted

462
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: to of sex slaves.

463
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:02,239
Speaker 3: I don't know.

464
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,719
Speaker 5: I mean, I had some pretty uh close encounters with

465
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 5: the leader Robert Burton, Yeah, They basically told me to

466
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 5: actually get close to him, to speak to him, i'd

467
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 5: have to join.

468
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: And I considered.

469
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 5: I went through this, you know, I got invited to

470
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 5: join many times, and I went through the initiation process

471
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 5: and ultimately decided not to because.

472
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, you have to like, oh yeah, what was

473
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: the initiation process?

474
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 5: You should have to do three meetings and then you

475
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 5: basically got to join after that. And now I think

476
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 5: they've kind of they've shortened it down to one. But

477
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 5: I sat down in this garden with two members, longtime members.

478
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 5: They sort of explained their beliefs, and I read some

479
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 5: of the quotes of the angels and we had discussions

480
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 5: about them. And their teaching is based on the Fourth Way,

481
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 5: which is it's kind of this very popular esoteric philosophy

482
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 5: from well, it was very popular in the sixties and seventies.

483
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 5: A lot of cults and spiritual groups were based on

484
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 5: this idea of the Fourth Way, which was created by

485
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 5: George Gergieff in the I think around nineteen ten, and

486
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 5: his student P. Dspinski wrote books and popularized it and

487
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 5: became like just it was like all the rage in

488
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,959
Speaker 5: the sixties and seventies. Anyway, they've built on it as

489
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 5: Robert has gotten messages from the angels. He's built on it.

490
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 5: It's sort of spiraled into radical cosmology. So they kind

491
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 5: of revealed to me these other belief systems, like how

492
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 5: they've built on the Fourth Way. And then they at

493
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 5: the end of the meeting, they asked if I wanted

494
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 5: to join, but I would have had to immediately start

495
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 5: paying a tithing, which is and I didn't want to

496
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 5: like join disingenuous, like you know everything about this transparent

497
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 5: I'm a reporter. By joining, I felt like that was

498
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 5: sort of like a showing that I really believed and

499
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 5: wanted to be a part of it. And at that

500
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 5: point my interest was kind of becoming just such curiosity

501
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 5: about wanting.

502
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: To go deeper, and I kind of had to put

503
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: up the.

504
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 5: Sort of ethical journalistic walls there, but yeah, so I

505
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 5: did anyway, So I ended up not really getting to

506
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 5: speak with Robert. Also, every time i'd ask, the members

507
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 5: would be like, he is sort of on this higher

508
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 5: level and is not really able to communicate with outsiders now,

509
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 5: which I do like, who when I hear him in

510
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 5: the meetings, he is definitely on another level. I don't

511
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 5: know what mental space or spiritual space. I don't want

512
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 5: to like discount their beliefs, but it's very hard to

513
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 5: understand what he's saying and it's sort of just spiraled.

514
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 5: And I think they a lot of when I ask

515
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 5: members about this, they sort of say, well, he's just

516
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 5: like kind of on this other level and we're you know,

517
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 5: he's trying to say tethered to reality to communicate with us.

518
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 5: But I feel like even if I did have an interview,

519
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 5: it'd be very difficult to like actually get a sense

520
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 5: of what he believes. This is my long wooden way

521
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 5: of answering your question, like is it all like a

522
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 5: total con or does he believe it? And it's hard

523
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 5: for me to say without really speaking to him. Yeah,

524
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 5: but I do feel like he deeply believes a lot

525
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 5: of this, and I think it's sort of started. He

526
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 5: had a gift charisma and he was helping people and

527
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 5: I think, I mean, as with a lot of these goes,

528
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 5: I think sort of power corrupts anybody in that kind

529
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 5: of devotion. You Ultimately, I mean, I think we're all

530
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 5: we're all a monster inside us and we're all capable

531
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 5: of things. Yeah, And I think it just allows the

532
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 5: monster to grow.

533
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it would be so great if there

534
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: were more cults that didn't have this underlying sexual element

535
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: or at least just like the abuse of power element.

536
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: Like if you don't have those two things, then it's fine,

537
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: like sure have your followers, then just like be a

538
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: spiritual leader.

539
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 5: I don't know, yeah, yeah, I'll think about that. It's like,

540
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 5: why can't it just be like a great commune.

541
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the thing.

542
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 5: Is like people change and evolve, and they get in

543
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 5: relationships that pull them away, and like there are fights

544
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 5: and start to lose touch with like, well, you don't

545
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 5: have that common element. But when there's one leader that

546
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 5: everybody is devoted to, I mean, I'd be a group dinners,

547
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 5: Like people invite me their homes. I have dinner with

548
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 5: some of the members, and whenever there's like a lapse

549
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 5: in conversation, you know, they wouldn't say, like well the weather.

550
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 5: You know, they'd be like, so did you hear Robert

551
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 5: spoke to Da Vinci yesterday?

552
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 3: You know.

553
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 5: It's like they have that common thread that keeps them together.

554
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 5: I guess that's one theory that there has to sort

555
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 5: of be a leader in that kind of hierarchy to

556
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 5: keep that everybody in the community for so long.

557
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess that leader would just have to

558
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: have something that grounds them enough to keep them responsible

559
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: to the people who But it's like, as soon as

560
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: people give their power over to a person, you're already

561
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: in dangerous territory, like because you shouldn't want that from people, right,

562
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: Like that's already sketchy.

563
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again I think power corrupts and eventually, like

564
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 5: if you have one person who is guiding like thousands

565
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 5: of people, I don't think anybody like it's, hey, that's

566
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 5: a lot of pressure and a lot of work and yeah,

567
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 5: and you just can't help. But I guess ultimately using

568
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 5: that to feed your desires.

569
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is an interesting idea though that like without leadership,

570
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: like that is why there aren't more healthy groups. But

571
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: also that's why I think groups like A managed to

572
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: last so well is because the leadership. There is a

573
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: system of leadership, but it's not it's not one person

574
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: every week, it's a different speaker or whatever. Am I

575
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: saying that?

576
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 2: Right?

577
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: Megan? You're you're more of a pretty on this topic

578
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: than I am. Okay, yeah, yeah, what is it called

579
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: or like black Lily as matter talks about being leader full,

580
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: I think where there are multiple people that you know,

581
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: and it kind of the responsibility shifts to different people

582
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: over time. Maybe that's maybe that's the secret. Anyway, Yeah,

583
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: it's an interesting idea for sure. I'd got to say,

584
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: I'm going to answer our CULTI question for the end now, Megan,

585
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: because I for sure would be a sucker for this group.

586
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: The art, the like beautiful recitals or plays or whatever

587
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: under the stars in this like on this gorgeous compound.

588
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: I haven't had any alcohol yet in my life, but

589
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: I will at some point stole the wine, you know,

590
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: like it's sat the beautiful clothing.

591
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: This idea of.

592
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: Like art as being a higher way of living, like

593
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: I love it.

594
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: I love it.

595
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,239
Speaker 1: I'm like I would be such a sucker for that.

596
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: I feel like yeah, yeah. And the theatrical nature of

597
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: it all, it sounds like he's so good at like

598
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: creating these rituals that feel mystical and important and you know,

599
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: like something out of a movie.

600
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 3: Totally, and it totally charmed me.

601
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 5: I spent weeks embedded in their community, and I was

602
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 5: totally enchanted, you know, watching them perform Shakespeare under the

603
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 5: Starfield sky, it's like, and they have like almost a

604
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 5: thousand palm trees. I actually counted on Google Earth how

605
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 5: many palm trees. Because every time Robert sees a palm

606
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 5: tree that he likes, like the exact palm trees, like,

607
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 5: I must have that palm tree. And so it was

608
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 5: somebody's job to go to that place buy the palm

609
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 5: tree from whoever owns the property, or they would barter

610
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 5: wine and they would truck it back and they'd have

611
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 5: like a plante ceremony.

612
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I must have that palm tree. What a concept.

613
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 5: Robert, I think, kind of has a way of getting

614
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 5: whatever he wants, and that extends to clothing, artwork, parrots,

615
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 5: whatever his obsession is at the time. I mean, he

616
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 5: kind of gets fixated on animals. Now it's King Charles Spaniels.

617
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 5: There was like he has this kind of group of

618
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 5: King Charles Spaniels that follows him around. Anyway, Yes, it

619
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 5: was incredibly enchanting and like I went to one event.

620
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 5: It was this sort of cocktail party. It was jazz

621
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 5: in this garden next to Robert's mansion, Like it was

622
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 5: just it was beautiful and I was also dressed nice,

623
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 5: so I was sort of in kind of the uniform,

624
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 5: and I was sort of trying. I didn't want to

625
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 5: stand out, so I was sort of doing some of

626
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 5: their their practices, like the way they eat and the

627
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 5: way they drink. It just like you're sort of giving

628
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 5: up this agency, and I was getting a buzz from it,

629
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 5: and they were love bombing me, like I ritten my

630
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 5: table was like everything I said was like so witty

631
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 5: and hilarious, and they were just and I thought I

632
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 5: was charming, and I'm like, no, no, no, like they

633
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 5: just you just seem like a student. We forget that

634
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 5: you're not one of us, and I wanted to need one.

635
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 5: And then in that moment, Robert entered this scene. It's

636
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 5: funny I described as a scene because I'm like thinking

637
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 5: of it as like a play now. But he arrived

638
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 5: and like sat right next to me, and this is

639
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 5: described in the fourth episode. But he sits down and

640
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 5: the energy was very clear as soon as like he's

641
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 5: approaching with this like entourage of men. Everybody, whether or

642
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 5: not they were looking, like their energy was like clearly

643
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 5: drawn towards him. And I couldn't help but feel that too,

644
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 5: just because like either the social engineering or he has

645
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 5: some kind of energy. I don't know, but I felt it.

646
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 5: He ended up sitting at this table like right next

647
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 5: to me, and my escort, who he was sitting next

648
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 5: to me, is kind of like telling me what to

649
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 5: do and what not to do, and I guess I

650
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 5: was like gesticulating too much, and he was like, I

651
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 5: think he should interlock your fingers because we have a

652
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 5: practice that we try to work against gesticulation and be

653
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 5: fully present. And he later told me that he just

654
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 5: said that because he didn't want me to get Robert's attention.

655
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: But then a few moments later, this guy.

656
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 5: Gets up from Robert's table and he walks over to me,

657
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 5: and he holds up this picture on his phone and

658
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 5: he was like, this is me when I was twenty eight,

659
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 5: and you look just like I did when I was

660
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 5: your age, which I'm not twenty eight, but I didn't

661
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 5: see the resemblance. But he was like, can I Can

662
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 5: I take a picture of you? So I smiled. He

663
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 5: took the picture, and then he walked back over to

664
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 5: Robert's table, and my guy later was like, yeah, that

665
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,959
Speaker 5: was Robert's admiral and he was probably doing recon for Robert,

666
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 5: and so I don't know if he was just like who,

667
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 5: I don't know this member, or if he was interested.

668
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 5: I have no idea, but it just like in that moment,

669
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 5: I just felt that just like heightened, like Wow, the

670
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 5: guy's he's giving me attention. I'm in this enchanted place,

671
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 5: and I could totally see how you could get drawn

672
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 5: up to that.

673
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

674
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 5: I ultimately ended interviewing seven. I spoke to seven men

675
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 5: who told me that they were I mean, they got

676
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 5: swept up in that and they were sexually abused by him,

677
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 5: And I totally understood, like just sort of getting I mean,

678
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 5: I don't it's not just the like the intoxication of

679
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 5: it leads to that. I mean, there's way more the

680
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 5: grooming that would happen over years, and we can talk

681
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 5: about that or you can listen to I mean, we

682
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 5: try to do a very good job of breaking down

683
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 5: how that happens and how these people get in this position.

684
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

685
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

686
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: There was one man who was talking in one of

687
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: the episodes, maybe it was episode three. I thought was

688
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: just a really important description of how he was gradually

689
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: exposed to like bigger and bigger things that were leading

690
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: to the sexual assaults getting people comfortable by you know, slowly,

691
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: just like inviting them to sleep in your home and

692
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: then asking for a massage. I think that's just such

693
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: an important thing to talk about because I think we

694
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: often imagine like, oh, you go into this cult and

695
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: the leader ask you to fuck them, like just say no,

696
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: But it's like no. The way that they do it

697
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: is they slowly get you comfortable incrementally over time with

698
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: things that are leading to that, so that by the

699
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: time you're to that point, it doesn't feel like that

700
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: big of a leap anymore.

701
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, and yeah, it's a lot of times it's very slow,

702
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 5: I mean over years. I mean even even just the

703
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 5: joining a group, Like a lot of times. The way

704
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 5: they recruit in the beginning, you'd find it was they

705
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 5: put these bookmarks and all these Fourth Way books and

706
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 5: major cities across the world. So you're getting really into

707
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 5: this this new like book that's just like blowing your

708
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 5: mind and you want to discuss it with people, and

709
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 5: this bookmark falls out that's like, hey, we're the official

710
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 5: school of this philosophy, and there's a number for every

711
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 5: major city you call the number they invite you out.

712
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 5: They had the at the time they had these beautiful

713
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 5: mansions in a states just outside of major cities. So

714
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 5: you show up and it's like all these like hot

715
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 5: young people who are into the same spiritual ideas and

716
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 5: they're like, we don't have to teacher, We're just like

717
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 5: a study group. So you join, you get super into it,

718
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 5: you get invested, and then you find out, oh, actually

719
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 5: there's a teacher and he's visiting, and then you prepare

720
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 5: all week the best meal, the best wine, the best

721
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 5: food in the area, and he arrives and you're already

722
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: sort of like heightened, and then and it's just like

723
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 5: this amazing experience. You find out, oh, we a, they

724
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 5: actually have a head coarse in California where they're building

725
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 5: a vineyard. You're living off the land. You're like people

726
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 5: are like they're building an orchestra, and you're like like.

727
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, like I would.

728
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like I was a theater nerd, like

729
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: I love, like I'm totally on board with.

730
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 3: Like many of the angels.

731
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 5: Like that's great, Like sure, I would go check it out.

732
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 5: And you're like, oh, there's like more like hot people

733
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 5: who are into the same spirit Like yeah, like sign

734
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 5: me up. So they fly out there, they eventually get

735
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 5: chosen to like travel with Robert because his thing was

736
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 5: like traveling around the world and like looking at the

737
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 5: art of the different angels and getting new messages. So

738
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 5: you're like, it's specially you're chosen. And maybe it's like

739
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 5: weeks or months or years before, like you know, he's like, hey,

740
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 5: I need you to give me a massage, you know,

741
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 5: and you feel special to you know, be in that.

742
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: Position, right.

743
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 5: And then as some people would tell me, like actually

744
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: this this was like a pattern. A lot of people

745
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 5: told me like once they were alone with him, he

746
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 5: would sort of reveal this new knowledge that he was

747
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 5: a goddess in a man's body, and they felt like

748
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 5: they couldn't deny the goddess and they had to have

749
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 5: this sort of holy sex. And this is all based

750
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 5: on the interviews with all the survivors, which you can

751
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 5: hear from. You know, I can't like it's their perspective,

752
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 5: but you know, they said a lot of them like

753
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 5: they was just that moment, it was just revealed to

754
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 5: them as new and they didn't know that this was happening,

755
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 5: and they didn't want to deny the goddess, their teacher,

756
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 5: this man who they believed controlled whether or not they

757
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 5: went to heaven or hell. For some people, especially in

758
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 5: the lady years, when it was kind of known, it

759
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 5: was sort of like it was all a part of

760
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 5: the programming. They were like, it's a part of the play.

761
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 5: The teacher has holy sex. People need to energize him

762
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 5: because he gives so much the students. It was sort

763
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 5: of built into the dogma at that point. I interviewed

764
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 5: some of these younger men who were brought in from

765
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 5: Russia in Romania and Eastern European countries, and they were like,

766
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 5: he was so good.

767
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: Or like one person told me, he was like he

768
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: was so good and so.

769
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 5: Smooth that like, at first when I heard that there

770
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 5: was like this holy sex, I was like, there's no

771
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 5: fucking way I'm gonna do that. Like that's not my thing,

772
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 5: because another thing is all the men at least that

773
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 5: spoke to me said they identified as straight, and Robert

774
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 5: was not interested and homosexual men. There was a rule

775
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: in the early days that there was no homosexual relationships,

776
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 5: no sex for marriage.

777
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 3: Women were forced to get abortions.

778
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 5: But anyway, kind of and I think it stirred this

779
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 5: idea of homophobia and anyway so a lot of these

780
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 5: men are straight and they're like, I'm not into that.

781
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 3: And then after a while you're like, wait, what.

782
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 5: Is it about me? You know, they told me like

783
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 5: why am I not? Why is he not interested in me?

784
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 5: Like what am I missing out on? Like it seems

785
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 5: like it's working for everybody else, and they're like getting

786
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 5: special treatment. And this guy was like he was so smooth,

787
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 5: Like this guy was now left. He was like he

788
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 5: was so smooth. He knew exactly when I was like

789
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 5: my most vulnerable and that's when he struck right.

790
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god. The manipulation is just next level.

791
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: Man. Are there a lot of young members? What's the

792
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 2: like average age of people?

793
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is getting a little older now.

794
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 5: Like I said, they're recruiting really hot and heavy in

795
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 5: the seventies, eighties, nineties, after the allegations came out, then

796
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 5: they started really focusing on recruitment from other countries, Like

797
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 5: I said, mostly now it's mostly Eastern European countries. And

798
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 5: people told me that the Fellowship helped them obtain religious

799
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 5: feces so that they can move into the US. And

800
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 5: then some of those men who got religious views through

801
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 5: the Fellowship, Fellowship helped them talk the embassies, and then

802
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 5: they had to live in Robert Tome. They felt they

803
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 5: had to live in Robert Home and felt pressured to

804
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 5: enter into possibly spectual servitude. But so the younger members

805
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 5: and a younger I'm saying, like forties are mostly Eastern European.

806
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 3: Is what I got.

807
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 5: A lot of the older members are are like white

808
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 5: Americans and Europeans. But yeah, I think like now they're

809
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 5: kind of I think they're sort of trying to figure out,

810
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 5: like what's the next chapter. How are they going to

811
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 5: bring in new members because I think they're they're running

812
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 5: out of out of money, frankly. I mean they in

813
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 5: the early days, they were recruiting a lot of members

814
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 5: who were of a certain social class. I mean there

815
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 5: were heirs and business people, lawyers, doctors like I said,

816
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 5: you know, and a lot of I interviewed some people

817
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 5: who it seemed like there was kind of a pattern

818
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 5: of people who kind of had family money and didn't

819
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 5: really know what to do with it. It's a sense

820
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 5: I got, and I can't really confirm that, but yeah,

821
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 5: so I think there was they were they were really

822
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 5: rolling in it. I mean, in the fifth episode, I

823
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 5: interview one of the old the chief financial officer for

824
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 5: several years, and he was like, oh, yeah, it was

825
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 5: like the golden days, Like we were just like we

826
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 5: were rolling in it. We were bringing in millions. Like

827
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: it really seemed like they were just thriving. Now it's

828
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 5: like they're I think they're trying to figure out what's

829
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 5: what are they going to do now?

830
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: Bring in millions from the wine.

831
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 5: No, the wine was lost. There's not a financial non

832
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 5: money maker. I actually dumped a lot of money into

833
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 5: the wine. As far as I could tell, it was

834
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 5: all through tithing. Members gave ten percent. I think wealthier

835
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 5: members gave more. Every event cost money. A lot of

836
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 5: these balls into the world thing they could cost hundreds

837
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 5: of dollars. I think maybe wealthier members felt they should

838
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 5: contribute more, and then they pump that into the vineyard

839
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 5: because they were like this is going to be a

840
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 5: money making thing, and like they wanted to do wine

841
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 5: that fit into their belief system and all that. But uh, yeah,

842
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 5: I don't think they really. Even though they made a

843
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 5: lot of incredible wine, I mean, and they have tons left.

844
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 5: After the allegations and nineties, it was harder for them

845
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 5: to sell it. They still sell a lot of wine.

846
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 5: They have a lot to sell, but it was harder.

847
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 5: And also I just think they weren't really focus. They

848
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 5: didn't really know how to market it because they did

849
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 5: it all internally. And I think it's like, even if

850
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 5: you're like say a family run vineyard and winery, you

851
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 5: know enough to like do outside marketing, but the Fellowship

852
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 5: kept it all internal, and so they do like they

853
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 5: just didn't know.

854
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: How to Yeah, got it.

855
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: I just want to like go back to really quick

856
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: the idea of only praying on straight men. Do we

857
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: think that that is just like a power thing or

858
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: has to do with his own identity? Like why do

859
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: you think that is?

860
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: I don't know.

861
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 5: I you know, some of these questions that people are

862
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 5: naturally going to come out of podcast asking. It's not

863
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 5: my place to speculation, obviously, Yeah, yeah, so I try

864
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 5: to leave it in the kind of voice of the survivors.

865
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 5: I don't know, I mean, it is. It did stand

866
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: out to me that pretty much every guy I spoke

867
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 5: to said Robert revealed to them he's a goddess and

868
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 5: a man's body. I don't know, I mean, he very

869
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 5: much identifies as a man, at least publicly.

870
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: I don't know.

871
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't want to speculate because it's you know, it's.

872
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seems like just it adds an extra

873
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: edge of predatory miss you know.

874
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know if it's a control thing or

875
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 5: a preference thing. It's definitely an interesting component. And it's

876
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 5: also and this is a big focus of the series,

877
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 5: is that makes it so much harder for these men

878
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 5: to speak out. I mean, we've we've finally conversation around

879
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 5: sexual assault for women and women in predatory groups is

880
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 5: finally like it's finally there's like a template and like

881
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 5: a it's easy, like you know, like they're still so

882
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,959
Speaker 5: far to go, but like men with like he's talking

883
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 5: to these men, I got the sense that they're finally

884
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 5: getting like a sense of like psychological vocabulary of how

885
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 5: to speak about their own alleged assaults. And like through

886
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 5: coverage of me too Annexiom and Larry Nassert, they're like

887
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 5: they understand, Like they're like, well, at the time I

888
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 5: didn't think it was rape because they didn't have a

889
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 5: gun to my head, But now I realize that he

890
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 5: groomed me to believe whether or not, like I went

891
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 5: to heaven or hell, or if I died, like it

892
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 5: was if you got kicked out of Fellowship. Some people

893
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 5: really thought they were going to die and then go

894
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 5: to hell. It was worse than if you'd like ever

895
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 5: joined at all, Like your fate was so and they're

896
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 5: like in that world, like it was like it was

897
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 5: like this huge gun to my head and there was

898
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 5: a power balance and I couldn't consent when he's my god,

899
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 5: my teacher, my landlord, my employer, and they finally understand

900
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 5: this and they're finally comfortable talking about it. I think

901
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 5: some of these men for the first time like that

902
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 5: my interviews, they're finally talking about and I think it

903
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 5: was really beautiful, cathartic moments. I mean, these interviews them

904
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 5: like I really, I mean, I can't like, these men

905
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 5: are incredibly brave and a lot of them are incredibly

906
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 5: just articulate at talking about this. But the fact that

907
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 5: kind of homophobia seems to be built into the belief

908
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 5: system of the Fellowship from the top down. I mean,

909
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 5: the fact that it was so wrong early on, I

910
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 5: think that built this stigma and just that makes it

911
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 5: harder for male survivors of sexual assault to talk about

912
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 5: it or even know how to process it right.

913
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: Right. That's why I think it is important for people

914
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: to listen to your podcast along with you know, documentaries

915
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: like the Michael Jackson docuseries and stuff. There is still

916
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: so much shame I think, around this idea of being

917
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: a survivor as a man and blaming themselves, and I

918
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: just like hope that we can move past that culturally

919
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: and like get to a place where there are just

920
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: as many male survivors coming forward. And I do think

921
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: it's so amazing and incredible and brave that all of

922
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: those people spoke to you publicly and are telling their stories.

923
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: It's just very important. Yeah, Like we have such a

924
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: vocabulary around I mean, obviously it's always hard as a

925
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: victim to talk about what's happened to you, no matter what,

926
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 1: and I don't want to make it sound like it's easy,

927
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: but we definitely have more of a cultural vocabulary around

928
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: abuse that happens to women. So yeah, good job on

929
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: the podcast.

930
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: Thanks.

931
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: I would love for you to briefly touch on this

932
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: orgy that happened that sounded absolutely insane. Dozens of men,

933
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: can you just like.

934
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 2: Any orgies of her not sound insane?

935
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: I mean, you know four or five people consenting, adults,

936
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: instrures whatever, that's fine, Okay, still a little insane though. Yeah,

937
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: but in this case, this is obviously like all of

938
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: these men who don't want to be there in one day?

939
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: What is this twenty four hour period? How long was this?

940
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, So this was the thing that first kind of

941
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 5: set off my spidy senses that there was something.

942
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: So where do I begin?

943
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 5: When I was there for the Doomsday the black Tied dinner,

944
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 5: and I started talking to people and ex members, and

945
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 5: they were kind of telling me about these like sex

946
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 5: rituals that it sounded like maybe there was like some

947
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 5: sex abuse happening at least in the early days or

948
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 5: maybe still. But I thought like his behavior had kind

949
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 5: of become so like this folk tale in the community

950
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 5: of like his like sexual prowess, and it had grown.

951
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 5: It was kind of just being mythologized, but it was

952
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 5: like a little sense of like when they's smoke, there's

953
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 5: there's fire. But anyway, so I finally it wasn't until

954
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 5: I I interviewed two men who were brought in through

955
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 5: Russian and Romania centers. The Fellowship got them the religious feces.

956
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 5: They moved in and they I mean, it was incredible

957
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 5: that they spoke to me, incredibly brave for them to

958
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 5: open up, especially because one is still in the community.

959
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 5: But they both described these love fests is what they

960
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 5: were called, where according to them, Robert decided that he

961
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 5: wanted to have sex with the hundred of his followers

962
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 5: in one day, and it was it was organized and

963
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 5: sometimes I guess it was like five at a time

964
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 5: doing different sexual activities with Robert to Robert whatever, all

965
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 5: at once. And both of them said he got to

966
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 5: like seventy or eighty before he just got so physically

967
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 5: exhausted and couldn't go on any longer. But yeah, I

968
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 5: started like nine am and it said it went till

969
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 5: nine pm. And once said it was just like it

970
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 5: felt like the DMV. I mean, there's a lot of people,

971
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 5: and these these were men who were either sexually involved

972
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 5: with Robert at that time or had in the past.

973
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 5: I think they kind of brought in because he seems

974
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 5: to focus on like the younger side of it, so

975
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 5: they brought in some of the older people who were

976
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 5: no longer I think active, according to these these sources,

977
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 5: and so I didn't really know what was going on.

978
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 5: They knew they'd been called to Robert to home. I

979
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 5: guess when you're called to Robert home, you have to go.

980
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 5: But they didn't know, and they were I guess the

981
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 5: way it was described to me is that they were

982
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 5: in this waiting room and he said it felt like

983
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 5: the DMV. You know, people were just kind of waiting

984
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 5: for their number to be called to participate in this

985
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 5: love fest that Robert could fulfill this vision of having

986
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 5: sex with dozens of his male students all in one day.

987
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: I mean, the egregiousness, it's just insane.

988
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that's like it's like it sounded

989
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 5: like in the early days, it was here and there,

990
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 5: and it was kind of in the early days, everybody

991
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 5: believed that he would celibate, you know, he was like

992
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 5: on this higher level. And when it finally came out

993
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 5: in the nineties when he was sued for having sex

994
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 5: with a minor, and the way that came out is

995
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 5: one one man he was a security guard and Robert

996
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 5: allegedly sexually assaulted him and he was shocked. So he

997
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 5: started asking around if anybody else had had this experience.

998
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 5: It turns out he found other people had, including his

999
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 5: own son. He found out his son had been allegedly

1000
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 5: sexually involved with Robert, starting with the age he was seventeen.

1001
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 5: So of course the man was horrified and they got

1002
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 5: out of the group and they ended up suing Robert

1003
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 5: in the fellowship for I think five million dollars. It

1004
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 5: was settled out of court, and after that it was

1005
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,959
Speaker 5: kind of like it was just known that Robert had

1006
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 5: sex with men, because that was a big shock for people,

1007
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 5: and I think a lot of people left because they

1008
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 5: thought a Robert was celibate and b note gay sex

1009
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 5: was allowed. I mean, he made one woman who was

1010
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 5: in a relationship with a woman told me yes, Robert

1011
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 5: told her they couldn't be together, so they broke up.

1012
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 3: He told her was cosmically wrong.

1013
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 5: So when they found out Robert was having sex with students,

1014
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 5: like male students, that was a big shock for people,

1015
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 5: and I think some people couldn't handle that and they left.

1016
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 3: Also.

1017
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 5: I assume some of them left because they found that

1018
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 5: the leader was I mean, and the issue obviously isn't

1019
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 5: that he was having sex with men. The issue is

1020
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 5: the power balance and that you know, like that he's

1021
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 5: allegedly a sexual predator. And I want to be very

1022
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 5: clear with that, I mean the way that a lot

1023
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 5: of members X members talk about it can like border

1024
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 5: on homophobia because I mean again, they came from a

1025
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 5: seemingly homophobic group and they don't know how to talk

1026
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 5: about but right, anyway, that was I think shock for people.

1027
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: So a lot of people left after that.

1028
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 5: In the nineties, I guess it sort of was this

1029
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 5: open thing and people would talk about having this holy

1030
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 5: sex with Robert and it was kind of built in

1031
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 5: as like this way to give him more energy, so

1032
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 5: it made it a lot easier. And I guess like

1033
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 5: then the more he got, the more it seems like

1034
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 5: it just kind of fueled that and it just kind

1035
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 5: of kept getting larger and larger, and then now leading

1036
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 5: up to the point when he's allegedly having sex with

1037
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 5: dozens of his followers in one day.

1038
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: How old is he?

1039
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 3: No, he's like.

1040
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 5: Eighty one or a little a little older.

1041
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: Wow, will be very interesting to see what happens when

1042
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: he does.

1043
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1044
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 5: I mean, like I said, I can't really speak to

1045
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 5: his even though, like his teachings have kind of spiraled.

1046
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 5: I mean, you hear him and it could sound like

1047
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 5: cognitive decline, but I think that's not a new thing.

1048
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 5: I think he's just kind of been speaking in a

1049
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 5: way that is hard for outsiders to understand for a

1050
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 5: long time. But he's still very active and he does

1051
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 5: many meetings to day. I mean, he's still very much active.

1052
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 5: And I saw like when I was there one night

1053
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 5: next to the galleria his home, I saw like this

1054
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 5: car come up and some Russian men like just going

1055
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 5: through the side entrance in a way that like an

1056
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 5: ex member was like, yeah, I would see that happen

1057
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 5: all the time. And the way that X member told me,

1058
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 5: he was like, I just realized that those men were

1059
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 5: going and to participate in these sex events. But I

1060
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 5: don't know that's what's happening. I couldn't confirm that those

1061
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 5: men were there for that, right, But just to say

1062
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 5: like he's still very much active. I cannot speak to

1063
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 5: whether or not today he's still doing that, but it

1064
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 5: seems like nothing has changed from the way it was

1065
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 5: when he was having love fests or when I heard

1066
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 5: about it. Right, there's like kind of the one guy

1067
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 5: who is sort of nobody will say who Robert because

1068
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 5: they don't really want to acknowledge that he's going to die.

1069
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 3: And I have to think what's going to happen next.

1070
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 5: But there is one guy who he sits behind him

1071
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 5: in every meeting and he is sort of his right

1072
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 5: hand man, and a lot of meetings he'll kind of

1073
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 5: whisper in Roberts hear and whenever Robert loses track, he

1074
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 5: kind of keeps him grounded, He sort of keeps him

1075
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 5: tempers reality, and he's very much kind of like seems

1076
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 5: to be the second in command, and it's sort of

1077
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 5: people pretty much accepted that he's going to take over

1078
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 5: when Robert I.

1079
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: Really want to hear about the art because it's so

1080
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: so wild, but also what you were just saying, I

1081
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: get somebody taking over. So Robert is an angel according

1082
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: to Robert. Correct.

1083
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, every one of these angels in their lifetime they

1084
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 5: became fully present and awakened and kind of reached this

1085
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 5: higher consciousness. And Robert has now either reached that or

1086
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 5: when he dies will I mean, it's kind of got it,

1087
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 5: but yeah, he's on that level now.

1088
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: So well, the guy who takes over, do you think

1089
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: he'll be like, I'm now also an angel?

1090
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 5: And Robert has said that he knows that this guy,

1091
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 5: Torian is going to become a conscious being sooner cool. Yeah,

1092
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 5: so yeah, I mean Robert seems to be kind of

1093
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 5: leading him as building him up as the successor Gotchas.

1094
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: So you can transform into and involved being. It's not

1095
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: something that you're born as well.

1096
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 5: He does say that it's not that because everybody there

1097
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 5: there's just the sense of sort of elitism that like

1098
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 5: everybody else is going to die except for them. At

1099
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 5: least that's the sense I got. They all say, well,

1100
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 5: Robert tells us, it's not that we're better, we're just lucky.

1101
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 3: So I don't know.

1102
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess it's written in the play that

1103
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 5: they were supposed to find the fellowship, so there's some

1104
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 5: sort of luck there. But you have to become fully present,

1105
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 5: and to become present, you have all these tools. I mean,

1106
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 5: presence is just an extreme form of mindful. I think

1107
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 5: there is something to like, you know, log me off

1108
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 5: your damn phone and like just being present in the moment.

1109
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 5: And whether or not his tools are the best way

1110
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 5: to do that, I don't know. But I did feel

1111
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 5: like very hyper aware. I mean I think that's part

1112
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 5: of like these doomsday predictions, is like in that moment,

1113
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 5: I've never felt more like alive and present, and I

1114
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 5: could see how you're in that world and you just

1115
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 5: feel very.

1116
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: Alive and in the moment.

1117
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 5: But yeah, they all they're kind of doing these exercises

1118
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 5: in order to get on his level. I got a

1119
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 5: sense of a very strong, like sense of misogyny hatred

1120
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 5: to women. And people told me he always said he

1121
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 5: would have no place for women, but there's certain things

1122
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 5: women can't do, like laundry, and like he had his

1123
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 5: underwear iron And I interviewed this woman who was his

1124
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 5: head of household for a while, and she told me

1125
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 5: about cleaning out the trash cans just filled with empty

1126
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 5: lube canisters, and cleaning the men who lived in the house,

1127
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 5: like cleaning their underwear with like which were caked in.

1128
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 3: Loub and these were her descriptions.

1129
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 5: But she told me he would tell her like I

1130
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 5: would have no need for women, but you know, like

1131
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 5: the men can't do the job you're doing as the

1132
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 5: maid basically insane. He teaches a lot about like female

1133
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 5: dominance is this thing that we all suffer from. It's

1134
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 5: like something that comes from your mother that you have

1135
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 5: to fight against. We all have to actively get rid

1136
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 5: of the female dominance and all of us and I

1137
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 5: got the sense that he's basically saying, like, women have

1138
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 5: more female dominance naturally and as something I have to

1139
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 5: work against. And I think there was this kind of

1140
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 5: sense of built in misogyny that a lot of people

1141
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 5: told me. Yeah, like if like a woman said something

1142
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 5: that was disagreeable, the men would be like, well, I

1143
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 5: think that's your female dominance talking.

1144
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 3: I think you got.

1145
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 5: A And there would seem to be this general sense

1146
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 5: that it's more difficult for women, or virtually impossible for

1147
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 5: women to achieve higher conscience during their lifetime. They had

1148
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 5: to wait until a next lifetime when they were either

1149
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 5: a man or like could gotten higher up the ladder

1150
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 5: or whatever. And for some reason, Queen Elizabeth was sort

1151
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 5: of an anomaly. And again, the forced abortions obviously were

1152
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 5: fucking horrific.

1153
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, so sad.

1154
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 5: It seems like a lot of women either had to

1155
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 5: give their kids away or get abortions, sometimes against their.

1156
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: Will, give their kids away too.

1157
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,479
Speaker 5: Robert seemed to have no interest in having children running around,

1158
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 5: and to be here, it wasn't a very safe place

1159
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 5: for kids, like out in the wilderness. I mean, this

1160
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 5: is like deep in the foothills, of California, I mean

1161
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 5: there's nothing. Yeah, yeah, so I got the sense that

1162
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 5: kids would kind of run Fairal you're not allowed to

1163
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 5: be in that fellowship until you're eighteen, so Robert didn't

1164
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 5: really have a place for them. So yeah, I heard

1165
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 5: the women would give their kids to either their parents

1166
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 5: or the father because they had, like I guess, left

1167
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 5: the father behind to join this group where the father

1168
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 5: was no longer in it, or he was an ex

1169
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 5: or whatever, so they kind of had to find someone

1170
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 5: else to take.

1171
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 3: Care of them.

1172
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: Were there women who were in there so long that

1173
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: they completely missed their opportunity to have children?

1174
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 5: Well, I interviewed one man who said that he brought

1175
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 5: his wife into the group.

1176
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: He was a seeker.

1177
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 5: She wasn't really into it, but I guess she wanted

1178
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 5: to stay with him, and she got pregnant and wanted

1179
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 5: to have it, but Robert said you couldn't.

1180
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 3: And the guy who now.

1181
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 5: Is filled with regret because he's left, and he was like, yeah,

1182
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 5: she didn't want it, but people wanted to happen. So

1183
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 5: the abortion took place, and then nothing was the same

1184
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 5: between them after that, so they got divorced and he

1185
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 5: ended up leaving and she stayed in and married another

1186
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 5: person who is in the fellowship, and she had never

1187
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 5: had kids. So I think, yeah, a lot of women, yeah,

1188
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 5: were not able to because I am sure.

1189
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure.

1190
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 5: I mean there were hundreds of members, especially in the

1191
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 5: early days, so I'm sure the timing didn't you know,

1192
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 5: if you're in it. I mean, so at some point,

1193
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 5: I think in the nineties, Robert allowed people to have kids.

1194
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 5: I think he realized that he kind of needed the

1195
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 5: next generation and that people would to leave if he

1196
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 5: didn't lell out them have kids. So there was a point,

1197
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,959
Speaker 5: but I imagine there were It seems like thereould probably

1198
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 5: be women who were in it that had been in

1199
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 5: it for so long that by the time they had

1200
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 5: the chance, they no longer yeah, could have children as easily.

1201
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: It's interesting that he says he's a goddess in a

1202
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: man's body, considering the way that he feels about women.

1203
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: I wonder what that's about. I don't know.

1204
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, again, it's hard to speculate. And this is in

1205
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 5: the final episode kind of the getting a sense of

1206
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 5: his history what led to this, And I don't want

1207
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 5: to spoil too much, but he was in a very

1208
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 5: horrifically abusive cult before he started the Fellowship, really a

1209
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 5: very homophobic, horrific cult, and he said that allegedly, is

1210
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 5: said in meetings that his mother abused him. He had

1211
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 5: a Yeah, it seems like he had a pretty rough life,

1212
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 5: and I mean, I think this might have been I

1213
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 5: don't know, pure speculation, but maybe that's an element of

1214
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, abuse can abuse shapes people, and

1215
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 5: it seems like he had these really horrific experiences that

1216
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 5: shaped him. And obviously he isn't really dealing with his

1217
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 5: sexual interests in a healthy way and kind of has

1218
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 5: been surrounded himself with enablers in this community of where

1219
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 5: there's such strong stigma around homophobia, and just like, yeah,

1220
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 5: so people just kind of see it's like it just

1221
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 5: allowed him to do this. And I mean, it seems like,

1222
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 5: according to all the people I spoke to, he needed

1223
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 5: serious help for the trauma that he went through, and

1224
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 5: it's that he was able to sort of build his

1225
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 5: own fantasy land and get whatever he wanted.

1226
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: And reenact that trauma on hundreds of other people.

1227
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 2: Do you remember what cult he was raised in.

1228
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's Alex Horn's Group, a theater of all possibilities

1229
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 5: is what it was called.

1230
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: Wow, what a name. I can't wait for that episode.

1231
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: How many episodes are there total?

1232
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 3: There are six.

1233
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 5: I'm already getting a lot of tips from ex members,

1234
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 5: and it seems like it's possible. There's so much more

1235
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 5: to the story that I couldn't even I didn't even

1236
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 5: get in in three years. Wow, that it's possible. But

1237
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 5: there will be another season or we're going to keep going.

1238
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 5: I mean, if there's any kind of results from this

1239
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 5: podcast to authorities looking into it, I don't know. I mean,

1240
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 5: I'll definitely follow up. But yeah, we have six episodes

1241
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 5: in the hopper that are coming out of the next

1242
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 5: few weeks.

1243
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: Exciting, exciting, It's like watching your documentary. You hear all

1244
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: the sound to hear people's real voices. You got some

1245
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: great sound effects. I love it.

1246
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1247
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean I'd give my hats off to Dan

1248
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 5: Risotto and Gilded Audio. I mean I partnered with them

1249
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 5: to do more of the podcast production side of it.

1250
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 5: Also partner with Blumhouse, which is known for horror shows

1251
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 5: and documentaries. I mean, they do a lot of incredible

1252
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 5: work and I pitched them forever ago. I was like,

1253
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 5: I feel like, this is the kind of podcast that

1254
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 5: you're going to want to develop into a TV series

1255
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 5: or something, So you want to partner now and help

1256
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 5: me because I knew. I was like, I am so

1257
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 5: in the weeds and I got to report the hell

1258
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 5: out of this because it's a lot of explosive allegations

1259
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,439
Speaker 5: and I wanted to be like air tight.

1260
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 3: You know.

1261
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 5: They gave me a great resources to hire in, like

1262
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 5: great legal team and get insurance and fact checker and

1263
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 5: make sure that this podcast is air tight. But Gilded

1264
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 5: Audio and Dan Risotto, who's my producer, who he's this

1265
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 5: sound wizard. I mean he just when I first started

1266
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 5: telling about it, he was like with a soundtrack to

1267
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 5: be like sort of inspired by Bach but like mixed

1268
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 5: with like nine inch nails.

1269
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, man, like we're good.

1270
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's some industrial element to it, but you know,

1271
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 5: but it's like a modernized box. And yeah, so having

1272
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 5: a guy who like a wizard who can like help

1273
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 5: bring to life sort of my storytelling. But also I

1274
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 5: mean I spent three years and like, the sounds of

1275
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 5: this place are incredible. I could build this incredible soundscape.

1276
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 5: I mean from the beginning when I by first morning,

1277
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 5: I wake up and I'm recording a parrot. Yeah, I'm

1278
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 5: sticking my microphone towards the parrot like it's a screaming

1279
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 5: oh my god. And you know, attending their Shakespearean play

1280
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 5: and like they have their own orchestra. So it's just

1281
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 5: like I was able to get incredibly. I mean, it

1282
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 5: feels like it's it's cinematic. I mean, it feels like

1283
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 5: a movie.

1284
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: It is, it does. Yeah, Okay, can we talk about

1285
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: the doomsday date that you were in town for. Was

1286
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: there a ritual that happened at us particular time or

1287
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: was it just everyone kind of went to bed in

1288
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: the morning the world would be over?

1289
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1290
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 5: So according to Robert, the last prediction was on October

1291
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 5: twenty first, twenty eighteen, some sort of massive catastrophic event

1292
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 5: would happen that would kind of trigger these other events.

1293
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 5: And he's sort of said this every few years, some

1294
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 5: iteration the sense that I got. It's kind of wavering

1295
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,959
Speaker 5: and it changes, but that generally California, the big one's

1296
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 5: gonna happen, the earthquake. California will break off into the ocean.

1297
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 5: They will become beats front property that will trigger this

1298
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 5: kind of economic collapse because a big chunk of the

1299
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 5: country and like millions of people have died, and so

1300
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 5: then that will cause like civil unrest and then a

1301
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 5: civil war or a nuclear war that will it all unfold.

1302
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 5: But they're just kind of perfectly positioned that they'll be saved.

1303
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 5: And again they've been collecting, you know, they're making their

1304
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 5: own line. They're learning to live off the lands. At

1305
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,479
Speaker 5: this point, I don't know, because I hear like water

1306
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 5: is a big issue for them. They've had to stop

1307
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 5: like watering all their palm trees as much because you know,

1308
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 5: we're actually in a apocalyptic event slowly unrolling every day,

1309
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 5: so that's kind of some of the irony there. But

1310
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 5: they were able to live off the land. They've collected

1311
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 5: the best of civilization, and then they will populate the world.

1312
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 5: But yeah, that happens every few years. This one, it

1313
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 5: started with a toast at this sort of piazza where

1314
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 5: they have a replica of the statue of David, a

1315
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 5: bronze replica, and it's sort of this outdoor kind of

1316
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 5: common meeting ground where we all gathered for this toast

1317
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 5: that Robert gave. Everybody's in black tie, and it felt

1318
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 5: very ritualistic, like everybody for one thing, they're always practicing

1319
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 5: what they call presence, which is just like extreme focused,

1320
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 5: getting rid of everything else going on in your mind.

1321
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 5: And so they're just kind of staring into the distance

1322
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 5: or deep into each other's eyes. It felt very bizarre

1323
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 5: that they're all just so focused, and it kind of

1324
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 5: adds to this sort of thousand miles stare that they

1325
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 5: all have. And then Robert gave the toast and they

1326
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 5: all kind of sauntered over to his home, the Galleria,

1327
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 5: where he hosts these massive banquets and dinners, and they

1328
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 5: all had this very fancy dinner, which again was like

1329
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 5: they were practicing presents. So it was kind of like

1330
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 5: very little talking, very focused. Then everybody after that they

1331
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 5: all go to bed. I was staying again at another

1332
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 5: Airbnb hosted by one of the members, and i'd kind

1333
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 5: of I stayed up late having some wine with them.

1334
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 5: I was on the bottom floor and they invited me

1335
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 5: up to kind of enjoy the last day of civilization

1336
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 5: with them. But uh, you know, there are different people

1337
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 5: who are like, well, you know, it hadn't happened before.

1338
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 5: There's a whole spectrum, you know, they're they're the true believers.

1339
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 5: They're the people who were like, the point of this,

1340
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 5: now I realized, is this exercise and we all just

1341
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 5: have to It's like showing like how prepared we are

1342
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 5: for the world to end, and that's the test. And

1343
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 5: then there's people who are like, I think it's just

1344
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 5: like one of these tools of just like being present,

1345
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 5: which I said earlier, it's like very like when I'm there,

1346
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 5: I'm like I was fully present. It felt like like

1347
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 5: the ultimate New Year's Eve where everybody's excited.

1348
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 3: People flew in from all the country.

1349
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 5: You're seeing people you haven't seen in years, Like everybody's

1350
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 5: there and excited. It was like the energy, the excitement

1351
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 5: was palpable, whether whether or not you believe something's gonna happen.

1352
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 5: And there are very much were people who were like, yeah,

1353
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 5: I thought I was worried that my kids couldn't come in,

1354
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 5: even though they're no longer like necessarily close to their kids.

1355
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 3: They're like, I was.

1356
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 5: Afraid my kids weren't gonna make it in and that

1357
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,959
Speaker 5: they would die. Thank god they didn't die. It's always

1358
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 5: there was always kind of a sense of disappointment. But

1359
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 5: they're like, but at least you know like millions of

1360
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 5: people across the world didn't die, including my family I

1361
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 5: left behind.

1362
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1363
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, So in the.

1364
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 5: Next day, they have a I don't know how often

1365
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 5: it is, but they had these kind of bizarre farmers

1366
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 5: market thing outside of Robert's home and this this big garden.

1367
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 5: And the next day that we were just like eating

1368
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 5: their fresh mozzarella because they have water buffalo on the

1369
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 5: compound and they're making mozzarella, eating pastries like people are

1370
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 5: selling their art, and it was just kind of this

1371
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 5: like all right, it's like the day it's like New

1372
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 5: Year's Day.

1373
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: The fact that it just wasn't a big deal that

1374
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: the apocalypse didn't happen on the doomsday date is fascinating.

1375
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just going about business as usual.

1376
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I heard that the first times it happened, like

1377
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 5: in the eighties nineties, he started having these predictions, and

1378
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 5: the first time it didn't happen, he was I think

1379
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 5: a lot of people were like what the fuck? Man, Like,

1380
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 5: you know, like I sold all my money, like I

1381
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 5: put it on ands and like, you know, like what

1382
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 5: And I guess apparently the next like week he just

1383
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 5: like sat in the cafeteria just like so morose and

1384
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 5: like trying to figure out like what he got wrong,

1385
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 5: and ultimately, I guess got this message from the angels

1386
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 5: that they deceived him and it was a test to

1387
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 5: teach him humility, and so he was a more humble,

1388
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 5: better teacher now. And so people are like, oh great,

1389
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 5: that's you know the cognitives, like, well, I guess now

1390
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 5: my teacher is better. So it was always like, but

1391
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 5: the real one's coming up, And with this one, he said, well,

1392
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 5: this was a trial run. Now we know what we

1393
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 5: need to do to prepare for the real one. Oh god,

1394
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 5: I'll tell you now, this is the first time I've

1395
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 5: told anybody what the next dooms date is. So prepare

1396
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 5: for twenty twenty five is what I've heard is the

1397
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 5: next one.

1398
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 3: I don't have a specific rate, but yeah, okay, this is.

1399
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: The real one.

1400
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 5: You need to worry about that because again, a lot

1401
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 5: of these predictions begin with California breaking off of the ocean.

1402
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,439
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm not convinced that the world isn't

1403
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: going to end in twenty twenty five anyway thanks to

1404
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: climate change.

1405
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're in California.

1406
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 5: Well, because they're they're like closer to Nevada. They're like

1407
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 5: deep in the Sierra Foo Hills. It's like a couple

1408
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 5: of hours north east of Sacramento roughly, so because of

1409
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 5: where the fault lines are, whatever, they're gonna be Okay,

1410
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 5: they're gonna be fine.

1411
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, got safe from the big one.

1412
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 2: It'll just knock the rest of California out. They'll have

1413
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 2: the beachfront property and they'll be.

1414
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 5: Protected because they're kind of where they're placed, and I

1415
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 5: guess like there's no like really interest in like nuclear

1416
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 5: attack hitting them.

1417
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,479
Speaker 1: How big is the compound? I feel like I should

1418
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: have asked this like forty minutes ago, But how how

1419
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: big is it?

1420
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 5: About twelve hundred acres, but very few people Robert lives there.

1421
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 5: A few I think special members have small homes on it,

1422
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 5: but it's mostly he very much won. I mean, he

1423
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 5: wasn't a commune. I mean this is this is I

1424
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 5: think a capitalist group. He like it was not all,

1425
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 5: you know, socialism and living together. He was like everybody

1426
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 5: you should all. He had to really buy the property

1427
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 5: and immediately surrounding, so he's kind of protected by that.

1428
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 5: There were over the old there were kind of other

1429
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 5: people who had properties right next door, but he made

1430
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 5: sure everybody surrounding it. I think all their property is

1431
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 5: owned by Fellowship members, so they all it's the town

1432
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 5: is very like and now they've they filled the town.

1433
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 5: I mean you drive into into this town of Oregon House, California,

1434
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 5: and you very much get the sense that pretty much

1435
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 5: everybody there is a member or an ex member, or

1436
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 5: there's also a lot of like weed farmers and.

1437
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 2: Meth lab Right, why are the ex members sticking around?

1438
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 2: It seems like such an odd.

1439
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 3: Because where are they going to go?

1440
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, a lot of them don't have you know,

1441
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 5: they bought their home, they didn't have savings because maybe

1442
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 5: they took they took Social Security early because there wasn't

1443
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 5: going to be any Social Security government. So they made

1444
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 5: poor financial decisions. And they have maybe they have like

1445
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 5: some remote business or they're doing something in Sacramento.

1446
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 3: But the last episode, there's an interview from somebody who.

1447
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 5: Left there, like in their seventies, and this couple left

1448
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 5: and they just kind of they realized that they'd been

1449
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 5: duped and leaving was incredibly difficult financially, just because they

1450
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 5: put all their money into the Fellowship.

1451
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 2: It's right, that's heartbreaking.

1452
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm looking at pictures of the town right now, and

1453
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: it looks gorgeous.

1454
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, it was very I mean it's it's

1455
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 5: incredibly peaceful. I miss it, like I I now, I'm

1456
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 5: not really welcome there.

1457
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 3: I don't.

1458
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 5: I don't really know, but uh yeah, it's it's a

1459
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 5: it's a lovely place and so.

1460
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 3: Many lovely people.

1461
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 5: I mean, many of the members of the of the

1462
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 5: Fellowship who were very welcoming and tell me their perspective.

1463
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 5: And I tried with this podcast, I try to give

1464
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 5: a space for current members to explain the value that

1465
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 5: the Fellowship brings to them and what they've gained from it.

1466
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 5: And they were very welcome to me, me and I

1467
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 5: and I certainly to hope I don't burning bridges, because again,

1468
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 5: there's a lot of lovely people, and I very much

1469
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 5: enjoyed my time there, just in the area and specifically

1470
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 5: just spending time with them.

1471
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 2: Mmmm yeah.

1472
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: Is there anything that didn't make the edits that you

1473
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: think is especially interesting or fun fact or just a moment.

1474
01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: I have so much.

1475
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 5: I'm sitting next to this like pile of documents that

1476
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 5: is about as tall as me, which isn't saying a lot.

1477
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 3: I'm like fairly.

1478
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 5: Short, but uh, you know, it's like I have all

1479
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 5: of their journals. There's so much documents. I mean I have,

1480
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 5: like I have hundreds of pages maybe of internal documents

1481
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 5: from the Fellowship board, and you know, and as they

1482
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 5: were figuring out, like how do we cover how do

1483
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 5: we justify this like Robert wants this art work, Like

1484
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 5: how do we justify this as like a religious expense?

1485
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 5: And in the fifth episode, I think I go into

1486
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 5: they had a big I. R. S audit and that's

1487
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 5: when they're like, oh shit, how do we because you know,

1488
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 5: it's all all this, all this art and everything, like

1489
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 5: they've sort of found a spiritual reasoning for it that

1490
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 5: it's like for higher you know, it's like surrounding yourself

1491
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 5: with the art. And I guess I should have explained

1492
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 5: this earlier, but yeah, surrounding yourself with fine art and

1493
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 5: find so called finer impressions are tools for awakening because

1494
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 5: when you are fully present, when you were looking at

1495
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 5: a beautiful work of art or reading like a beautiful

1496
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 5: work of poetry, which yeah, I.

1497
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: Can't disagree with that, Yeah, of course.

1498
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 5: So I'm like all right, like, yeah, I guess when

1499
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 5: I when I look at a Rembrandt, like I feel something.

1500
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 5: I mean, it's the point of art, you know, it

1501
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 5: moves you. So yeah, I get that anyway, but it's

1502
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 5: really hard to explain that to the IRS, and they're like,

1503
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 5: you're not paying taxes because you're a religion and you're

1504
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 5: spending it on wine and art and like these like ridiculous,

1505
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 5: Like just are not ridiculously just you know, he buys

1506
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 5: a lot of clothes and animals and.

1507
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 3: It's all so it's a very lifestyle, yeah, lives lifestyle.

1508
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 3: So it's interesting.

1509
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 5: That's the fifth fifth episode when you hear from the

1510
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 5: chief financial officer about how they dealt with that and

1511
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 5: dealt with the irs, is pretty wild. But anyway, so

1512
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 5: I have a lot of like I have so many

1513
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 5: internal documents.

1514
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1515
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 5: There's so many characters that I really I mean, that's

1516
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 5: the other beautiful thing. I mean that people from all

1517
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 5: over the world and like from different all different walks

1518
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 5: of life, and like the way they speak. I mean

1519
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 5: they've been like reading Shakespeare. A lot of these people

1520
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 5: like grew ups for decades, been reading Shakespeare and poetry

1521
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 5: looking at art, so like their reference, like the their

1522
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 5: metaphors and all that are so beautiful and poetic, and

1523
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 5: like there's just such a rich tapestry of fascinating people

1524
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 5: that I spoke to, and just these characters, wonderful people

1525
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 5: that I wanted to include. Like one guy, he he

1526
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 5: played some like vampire like like he was like he's

1527
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 5: like famous, like be like b horror actor, and he

1528
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 5: like when I saw him, he just looked like a

1529
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 5: Bella Lagosi type and he just like this like very

1530
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 5: like skeletal like haunting, and I just wanted to I

1531
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 5: want I could spend days interviewing him. Like just so

1532
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 5: many fascinating characters that was really heard condensing it. But

1533
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 5: obviously with the podcast you were a little kind of

1534
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 5: narrower because like you can't have like the description of

1535
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 5: who this person is pop up that reminds you you

1536
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 5: have to like you could. The brain can only when

1537
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 5: you're hearing, can only take in so much. But I

1538
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 5: don't know, there's so many fascinating tidbits and information.

1539
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 3: But truly it's the people.

1540
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 5: I mean, there's a lot of beautiful, wonderful people that

1541
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 5: I think like have been maybe pulled into something that

1542
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 5: was not in their best interest, or it was maybe

1543
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 5: it was in like in order to sustain that lifestyle

1544
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 5: once they were so invested, they had to like start

1545
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 5: enabling this. But yeah, a lot of truly amazing characters

1546
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 5: and people.

1547
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: It's such a fascinating group, similar to Nexium, I guess,

1548
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: because I think there's still this perception that people who

1549
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: join cults are like, you know, financially suffering or in

1550
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: some kind of place of desperation in their lives. But

1551
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 1: it's like, no, Also, people with PhDs and who are

1552
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: very successful and very accomplished and very intelligent are joining

1553
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: cults all the time. They're just joining slightly different kinds

1554
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: of cults, you know, and art cult. Hell yeah, sign

1555
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 1: me up. Yeah that sounds great, you.

1556
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 5: Know, I would absolutely, And that was part of the

1557
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 5: interest I was. Like when I heard it described by

1558
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 5: Teal's ex husband, I was like, sign me the hell up.

1559
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 5: Like I was a theater nerd, like I was. I

1560
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 5: was an eagle scout, like I love the whole like

1561
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 5: self reliance thing, Like I was into that. But also like,

1562
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 5: you know, so I grew up in Texas, you know

1563
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 5: again camping and like being a theater nerd, but I

1564
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 5: felt like I was kind of missing out of like

1565
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 5: culture and stuff, and I went to New York and

1566
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 5: just fell in love and you know, just like so

1567
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 5: many different walks of life and people from all the world,

1568
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 5: and then that I found this there's this place that's

1569
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 5: like this magical place that kind of blends the both

1570
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 5: of those. It's like people living off the land, just

1571
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 5: nature for miles. But the conversations I had from people

1572
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 5: with like all these incredible life experiences from.

1573
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 3: All over the world.

1574
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 5: At times it felt like I'm like this thirty yard

1575
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 5: radius might be like the most diverse thirty yard radius

1576
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:24,520
Speaker 5: of anywhere in the world.

1577
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 3: But like I just you know, you had people.

1578
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 5: From like Latin America, Romania is symbol like people who

1579
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 5: grew up in the in the seventies, and like a

1580
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 5: lot of more like former hippies. What a strange And

1581
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 5: that's a part of the intoxication. But it was like

1582
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 5: kind of a strange night out in New York, except

1583
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 5: out in the wilderness. And I'm watching perform Shakespeare with

1584
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 5: like a vineyard in the background that they dug out

1585
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 5: of a mountain. And that's the other like it's like

1586
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 5: a terrorist vineyard. They'd like dug these terraces out of

1587
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 5: a craggy mountain and built these plants. Wow, I mean

1588
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 5: miles of vineyards. Like I think it was like three

1589
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty five acres of vines that they planted.

1590
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: I think we just sold everyone on going to this town.

1591
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 2: All we have to do is just we have to

1592
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 2: be the ones who run it because we're not going

1593
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 2: to get you know whatever, by the power. So we're

1594
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 2: revolt leaders now.

1595
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: Trust us, trust us where trustworthy with power.

1596
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 2: The podcast is great. Everybody needs to listen to it.

1597
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there anything else that you'd like to say?

1598
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: Where can people find?

1599
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 2: You?

1600
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: Give us the spiel?

1601
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I just I hope you listen to

1602
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 5: all six episodes that the third one just came out,

1603
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 5: the third and the fourth or where you start hearing

1604
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 5: from the survivors and that's when you realize why this

1605
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 5: this story is important. And I hope that it does

1606
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 5: bring about some justice or something and just or just

1607
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 5: an understanding of this type of abuse and this sort

1608
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 5: of this type of coercion. So yeah, please listen. As

1609
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 5: you asked earlier, what did I want in it that

1610
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 5: that didn't get in? I'm I've kind of been slipping

1611
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 5: in like a lot of my reporting. I didn't make

1612
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 5: it in on Twitter and Instagram, so you can follow

1613
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 5: me at t Jennings Brown on either of those and

1614
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 5: get some kind of just some of the imagery, some

1615
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 5: of the photos I've dug up archival documents. The tips

1616
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 5: are starting to pour in, so I might just be

1617
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 5: having to start like just live reporting what's going on

1618
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 5: with the fellowship.

1619
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 2: Now amazing, that's great.

1620
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: Well, can't wait to hear the rest. Thank you so

1621
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: much for coming on.

1622
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me.

1623
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 2: Kit Jennings.

1624
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I definitely spoiled my answer already, but Meg

1625
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: and I would love to know your answer. Would you

1626
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: join the Fellowship of Friends?

1627
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I don't think so just because I don't

1628
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 2: like formalness.

1629
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: You don't, no, really.

1630
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get really triggered by people who are not

1631
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 2: like putting on anything. But if people speak in a

1632
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 2: certain way that's like very fancy or particular, I feel

1633
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,879
Speaker 2: like we're not being real and I get really scared

1634
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 2: and frustrated and I spiral.

1635
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:05,879
Speaker 1: Wow, that's really interesting.

1636
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: So every single person that spoke triggered the absolute living

1637
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 2: shit out of me.

1638
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: Oh funny, they didn't. They didn't strike me as that

1639
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: but I get I get that.

1640
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not even like overly done. It's not

1641
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 2: it's not like they have to be like, well, excuse

1642
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 2: me about the badja da da. It's just like this

1643
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 2: tiny little thing where it's like a little bit too

1644
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 2: formal for me. Interesting.

1645
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: I do get that, and that is how I feel

1646
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 1: generally like in my life. But I think in terms

1647
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:38,879
Speaker 1: of like the type of group that would be appealing

1648
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:43,600
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, I love dressing up. I love theatricality.

1649
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 1: I love drama. I love absolutely, And I don't mean

1650
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 1: like drama, but I mean, like, you know, drama, drama

1651
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: and art and the finer things and discussing fucking philosophy

1652
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, like I love that shit.

1653
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 2: I do too. I think this particular group is just

1654
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 2: looking at art and speaking about philosophies that I'm not

1655
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 2: quite as interested in.

1656
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 1: Mmmmmm yeah that makes sense, you know, upon learning more. Obviously,

1657
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: when we ask these questions, it's always assuming you don't

1658
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: know about the sexual assault, yes, right, yes, or with

1659
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: you it's just like, would you join just on the surface,

1660
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: just looking at it as an outsider who hasn't heard

1661
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 1: much about it before, I feel like you would maybe

1662
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: discover pretty quickly though their feelings on women. Yeah, which

1663
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: would make me be less interested because I'm also interested

1664
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: in organization. Like That's why I think Nextium would have

1665
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 1: been really appealing to me. Yes, it's like presenting as

1666
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 1: like being really empowering to women and you know, giving

1667
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: them a voice and giving them a special program or whatever.

1668
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 2: So that would maybe Oh my god, he me. The

1669
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: Nexiam guy followed us. Is that cult news?

1670
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Mark? Mark Vicente followed both of us and our podcast. Yeah, yeah, Mark,

1671
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 1: he is listening to this episode right now.

1672
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 2: You made it to the end. Mark, that's super cool

1673
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: of you contact us.

1674
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 1: Well, he's not the end, No, it's not the end,

1675
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:09,759
Speaker 1: it's just the beginnings, just the beginning.

1676
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that?

1677
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: I'm just does he want to come on? Very very interesting.

1678
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: There will be more developments on the whole Naxium community

1679
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: former Nxiom community happening in the next year.

1680
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 2: That would be super.

1681
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: Interesting to see.

1682
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 2: So there's where you haven't even touched the surface of

1683
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 2: what's that to come out on that? I don't think.

1684
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1685
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 1: Anyway, well, now that we blew up his spot on

1686
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,839
Speaker 1: who he's following, Yeah, volluchip of Friends yes, super pealing.

1687
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: But I think realistically, all I want is to like

1688
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 1: do shit like that like once a month, like to

1689
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 1: get dressed up and go to like some ceremony and

1690
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: talk about art and yeah the stars watching Shakespeare like

1691
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: once a month would be fine, right right, That would

1692
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: kind of scratch that inch for me.

1693
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's still a lot.

1694
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 1: That's a lot once a month.

1695
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, well black tie once a month.

1696
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,639
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I look at this closet. We are sitting

1697
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: in my closet right now, filled with just like weird

1698
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: outfits every color.

1699
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,719
Speaker 2: There's gonna be some fake for at this at this event,

1700
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 2: that's for sure.

1701
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: Well, they're gonna have real Further, let's be honest.

1702
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:11,640
Speaker 2: Well you can't do that, Lola. Don't do that.

1703
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 1: Well, only when it's vintage.

1704
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 2: All right, Fine, you guys, we've enjoyed so much having

1705
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 2: another week with you. We hope that you have a

1706
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 2: wonderful week. We hope you enjoyed the show. We can't

1707
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 2: wait to see you next time. And remember to follow

1708
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 2: your gut, watch out for red flags, and never ever

1709
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 2: trust me. Bye bye