1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

5
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

6
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 2: my name is Noela.

7
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

8
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 4: We're joined with our super producer Paul, Mission Control decand

9
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,240
Speaker 4: most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff

10
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 4: they don't.

11
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:42,839
Speaker 3: Want you to know.

12
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,520
Speaker 4: We are returning to an ongoing series about mysterious inventors

13
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,360
Speaker 4: and scientists. You can check out Part one of Mysterious Inventors,

14
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 4: released on December twentieth, twenty twenty three, as the Humans

15
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 4: reckon the Calendar. Do you guys remember that one?

16
00:00:58,720 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 3: Yes?

17
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it also echoes back to an earlier episode

18
00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 4: we did.

19
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,120
Speaker 3: Who's Killing all These Scientists, which.

20
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 4: Is about assassinations of like open secret assassinations of scientists

21
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 4: who are experts in nuclear weaponry.

22
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 5: Like definestrations, right, people getting tossed out of windows.

23
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,920
Speaker 2: Some of that, yeah, right. But ultimately that one, Kasha

24
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 2: came out in twenty fourteen, you guys. That was when

25
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,959
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve there were some big stories coming out

26
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 2: about Iranian scientists being murdered like straight up car bombs,

27
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 2: explosives attached to a motorcycle, all.

28
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:40,759
Speaker 6: Kinds of craziness.

29
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, And in each of those cases, of course, there's

30
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 4: no real like international justice regime that is trying to

31
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,440
Speaker 4: advocate for a prosecution, And there are a lot of

32
00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 4: dangerous third story windows depending upon which part the world

33
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 4: you move in.

34
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 5: Whoops on a banana peel. Yeah, but it's also like

35
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:12,240
Speaker 5: hard to get motive quickly or intent, you know, I

36
00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 5: mean unless you're absolutely like in on the conspiracy, Like

37
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 5: who do you report this to? And how do you

38
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 5: go about reporting it? And like what clues are you

39
00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 5: looking for?

40
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 6: It's tough.

41
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe I'm just being maybe that's just a

42
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 5: lazy way of thinking of it, but it does seem

43
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 5: like it would be difficult to figure this stuff out,

44
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,239
Speaker 5: you know, with any kind of immediacy.

45
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,799
Speaker 4: That's good for the nuclear scientists, we know they were

46
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 4: the victims of targeted killings entirely because of their work

47
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 4: leading current non nuclear nations to nuclear weaponry. But in

48
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 4: the point you raise, which is mission critical for tonight's conversation,

49
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 4: we're seeing we're seeing a bit of human psychology as well.

50
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 4: Let's say somebody is working on something controversial, right, non

51
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 4: nuclear related, something bad happens to them. Are we to

52
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,919
Speaker 4: say that they were the victims of a conspiracy or

53
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 4: were they the victims of the dark lottery that is

54
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,320
Speaker 4: accidental death?

55
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 3: Right?

56
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 4: We can't say everybody is killed because of their hobbies

57
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:19,919
Speaker 4: or their career.

58
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 2: Well, there are also examples that we've come across over

59
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 2: the years where it is a prominent scientist, Let's say

60
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,560
Speaker 2: a Russian scientist who was on the team that brought

61
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,640
Speaker 2: Sputnik five into being the vaccination against the COVID nineteen

62
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,920
Speaker 2: virus vaccination that was approved before the final trials were done, right,

63
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 2: and then he ends up dying and like let's say,

64
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 2: strangled in his own apartment with a belt, which is

65
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 2: this is an actual example. Somebody like that dies. Is

66
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: it because there was some kind of interpersonal conflict that

67
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 2: is what is alleged to have happened, or is it

68
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 2: something bigger in how the heck do you prove it?

69
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 3: Well?

70
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 5: And I guess with cases like that where there's a suicide,

71
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 5: perhaps there are boiler plate kind of procedures that go

72
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 5: into clearing it, making it you know, Okay, it was

73
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,479
Speaker 5: their foul play, it was there evidence that somebody was

74
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 5: here and participated in making this happen, or was this

75
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 5: somebody that took their own life. So, but beyond that,

76
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 5: it's hard to you know, it's hard to push for

77
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 5: like more taking a closer look unless there's like a

78
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 5: very clear pattern.

79
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 4: And so tonight we're exploring stories about scientists allegedly or

80
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 4: in some cases provably removed to not to not because

81
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 4: they were bad people, but in a larger effort to

82
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,040
Speaker 4: remove their expertise from the grand chess board of Zabag

83
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,760
Speaker 4: New Braznetski. We're zooming in on these scientists. Let's give

84
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 4: a bit of background. Here are the facts. You know,

85
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,359
Speaker 4: if you listen to part one, we don't have to

86
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 4: spend too too much time on this invention. It's amazing.

87
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 4: It's such a superpower. The animals of the world have it,

88
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,240
Speaker 4: not just humans. Otters make tools, corvids make tools. Cetaceans

89
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,840
Speaker 4: as well, like animals get the idea of invention, and

90
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,360
Speaker 4: it's really helpful for the human experiment because it an

91
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 4: invention addresses problems that human beings cannot solve with their

92
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,039
Speaker 4: starting operating equipment. Like you know, you start with the

93
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,920
Speaker 4: body and the mind. You can't automatically make fire unless

94
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 4: you figure out a couple of other things.

95
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the big difference with humans is we

96
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 2: figured out, like you said, power fire right as the

97
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 2: first thing, and then combustion, and then electricity and once

98
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 2: once you have power tools. Right, if the beavers have

99
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,240
Speaker 2: power tools, oh look out buddy, Sorry forests. But you

100
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 2: know that is where that is where I think humanity

101
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,800
Speaker 2: becomes dangerous to itself in any of those other animals

102
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 2: that might figure out some tool making.

103
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, has humanity broken the game of evolution? That's part

104
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 4: of the question.

105
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 3: I mean.

106
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 4: Look, also, we're talking about discoveries and inventions. Discoveries and inventions,

107
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,919
Speaker 4: they're closely related. The are kissing cousins, but they're not

108
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,560
Speaker 4: quite the same. A discovery may simply be an observation.

109
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 4: The idea of an invention is the application of a discovery,

110
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 4: so it leverages what could be an abstract observation into technology,

111
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 4: like a great example of this comes from the Nolan film.

112
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 4: Oppenheimer spends a great deal of time on the difference

113
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 4: between discovery and invention, theory and application. Multiple points in

114
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:48,919
Speaker 4: that film adaptation of Oppenheimer's life, we see the legendary

115
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 4: physicist Oppenheimer saying, I am a theorist. I not actually

116
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 4: making the thing. I just I understand the mechanics of

117
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 4: how it would work, and that's why he needed a team.

118
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 5: Well, someone can discover a thing and not have the

119
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 5: skill set with which to apply it practically, right.

120
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, exactly. The discovery that, oh there are atoms,

121
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,360
Speaker 2: and this is how we think they probably work. And

122
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 2: as you said, been the technology or even the theory

123
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 2: is maybe someone could split that atom. Could it happen?

124
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 3: Right? Possible?

125
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: Then you then you invent the thing that could possibly

126
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 2: split the atom. Then you discover again it can be split.

127
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 5: And then you parlay that into a world destroying weaponry,

128
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,480
Speaker 5: you know, and then a blockbuster Hollywood film on the

129
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 5: backs of millions of deaths.

130
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 3: And on the backs of barbies. Yeah, the world. My

131
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 3: theory is that movie would not have done as well

132
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 3: if there hadn't have been the Barbenheimer phenomenon. It's such

133
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 3: a it's such a long, thinky kind of movie.

134
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 5: It's kind of wild that it did so much business

135
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 5: in the box office.

136
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 6: I kind of fell in love when I saw it

137
00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 6: for the first really dug it?

138
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I thought open. I'm write a lot of

139
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 3: poetry to it. Cool. I'm sorry.

140
00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 5: I obviously I was not able to make it when

141
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 5: we all, when you guys went and saw the movie,

142
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,840
Speaker 5: and I still have not seen it.

143
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 3: So I look forward to catching it at school. You should.

144
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,880
Speaker 4: You should watch it on an old school Nokia flip

145
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 4: phone with a mono sound, the way Nolan intended letterbox.

146
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 5: Right.

147
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 4: So you know, just like in Hollywood brainstorming, a lot

148
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 4: of inventors have ideas that don't lead anywhere for any

149
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 4: number of reasons. A lot of times you're a scientist

150
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 4: and you say, oh, that's interesting, but the concept is

151
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 4: not immediately applicable nor successful because it needs other discoveries

152
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 4: or inventions to render it feasible. There's an amazing sketch

153
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,760
Speaker 4: by the criminally underrated group Mitchell and Webb that talks

154
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 4: about this, and they have like an old school Middle

155
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 4: Ages Italian esque inventor and he comes up to the

156
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,320
Speaker 4: money guy and he's got a carved wooden mouse and

157
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,719
Speaker 4: it's got a little carved wooden ball inside of it,

158
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 4: and the money guy is saying, Okay, what is this

159
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 4: next great invention, and the whole bit is it's worth watching.

160
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 4: The whole bit is the dude saying, well, I don't

161
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 4: know exactly how this is gonna matter later, but at

162
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,080
Speaker 4: some point someone else will invent an amazing thing and

163
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 4: you'll need this little carved mouse and you can you know.

164
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 4: And he's like, Okay, well what does this mouse do?

165
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 4: And he's like, well, you can click on it and

166
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 4: it doesn't have a bunch of wires leading out from it,

167
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 4: and the money guy's like, yeah, but it's the Middle Ages.

168
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 4: Most things don't have wires leading out of them. So

169
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,199
Speaker 4: I think that's a beautiful way to show how weird

170
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 4: invention is, like the vention the flying machine.

171
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,320
Speaker 3: For clicking and dragon, come on, cavemn.

172
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 2: I think we all, I think we all got it.

173
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,319
Speaker 2: That's a boy. Let's make sure we all understand. It's

174
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 2: a computer mouse. I had in my mind a tiny mouse,

175
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 2: like a creature mouse that had a ball inside of

176
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 2: it somehow, and I was like, what is this thing?

177
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,439
Speaker 5: Early early prototypes for the mouse perhaps looking more mouse like.

178
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 3: M m yeah.

179
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 4: And also, I mean with Da Vinci's flying machines, we

180
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 4: got some amazing sketches his head was in the right place.

181
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 3: He was onto something.

182
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,880
Speaker 4: But it wasn't until centuries later that the Right Brothers

183
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 4: made powered flight a reality. Also requisite shout out to

184
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 4: Charles Chappelle.

185
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 3: Uh, black Heart in the right place, Ben, that's what

186
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 3: I want to know. Unclear clear unclear anatomically probably quite possible.

187
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 4: Possibly, so you can you can also stumble across something

188
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 4: useful while you're researching a flawed or dead end idea,

189
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 4: right like, uh, think of the alchemist. They're looking for

190
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 4: the ability to transmute lead into gold using the Philosopher's Stone.

191
00:10:55,280 --> 00:11:00,320
Speaker 4: They're questing after immortality. They discovered neither of those things,

192
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,640
Speaker 4: but they did invent pesticides along the way, So thanks

193
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 4: for the roundup, Alchemist of old. And they also sort

194
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 4: of stumbled into the discipline we call chemistry. And as

195
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 4: you know, if you listen Ridiculous history, a ton of

196
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 4: inventors died at the hands of their own inventions or

197
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 4: as a consequence of their discovery, like everyone from the

198
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,320
Speaker 4: guy who made the creepy horse statue at Denver Airport

199
00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,680
Speaker 4: to Marie Curie and radiation poisoning.

200
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,040
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and we know how hard it is sometimes

201
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,320
Speaker 5: to get things approved for clinical trials or studies or

202
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 5: whatever human testing. So a lot of times, you know,

203
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 5: inventors who are on the verge of a breakthrough will

204
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 5: be like, Ah, we'll not have time for that. I'll

205
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 5: just test it on myself.

206
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,319
Speaker 3: Oops, I died.

207
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 4: Right, right, And that's part of that's one of the

208
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 4: darker sides too. You know, we mentioned this often because

209
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 4: we cannot mention it enough. Suppression of technology might sound

210
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 4: wacka do, but it's very much a real thing. You

211
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,200
Speaker 4: might stumble into an amazing idea, you might win the

212
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 4: lottery and purposely create an amazing idea. Your initial concept

213
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 4: might be on the money, but there if it challenges

214
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,439
Speaker 4: the status quo of a system, just like Copernicus, right,

215
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,400
Speaker 4: then you are going to be in trouble. Here in

216
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 4: the US, we have the Invention Secrecy Act of nineteen

217
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 4: fifty one, anti democratic, anti free market, very real and

218
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 4: top secret.

219
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,280
Speaker 5: That's interesting Ben that you liken it to things like Copernicus,

220
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 5: which often studies or discoveries, or you know individuals like

221
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,360
Speaker 5: that that have theories that sort of flew in the

222
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 5: face of organized religion or like the governing status quo

223
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 5: in terms of them holding on to power.

224
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 3: I guess I think of the Invention Secrecy Act as.

225
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 5: Being a little more like along the lines of, like

226
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 5: you've discovered a thing that you shouldn't know about that

227
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 5: like we it's ours already, you know what I mean,

228
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 5: And if you put this out in the world, it's

229
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,959
Speaker 5: going to compromise national security.

230
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 3: Maybe it's just.

231
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 5: A modern example, a modern version of that past, you know,

232
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 5: threatening the religious status quo.

233
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,959
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I think that's very interesting.

234
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the comparison I'm hoping to draw here, because

235
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 4: the threat to the status quo, whether that is a

236
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 4: secular state power or an ecclesiastical theocratic power, it still

237
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 4: has the monopoly over violence. Like you, if you try

238
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,320
Speaker 4: to find the you know, if you try to find

239
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 4: a year by year spreadsheet or markup of things that

240
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 4: fell to the Invention Secrecy Act, then you're gonna have

241
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,439
Speaker 4: at best mixed success. We know that there is a

242
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,720
Speaker 4: list of compensation. It's kind of like an imminent domain

243
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 4: of ideas where they can say, hey, your idea is

244
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,960
Speaker 4: worth x amount of money, We're going to pay it

245
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 4: for this. You can never talk about it again if

246
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,080
Speaker 4: you do any further research on it. You automatically work

247
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 4: for US democracy in the free market, take a backseat

248
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 4: every single moment to nation state concerns. I mean, you

249
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 4: can invent anything you wish in the US until the

250
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,959
Speaker 4: powers that be deem you a threat. And you might

251
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 4: be saying, guys, it's twenty twenty four. Surely we've evolved

252
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,160
Speaker 4: past burning scientists at the stake, right, We're past these

253
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,120
Speaker 4: barbaric acts.

254
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 5: Well, you just don't do it in public. Yeah, we

255
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 5: just don't do it in the town square. It's a

256
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 5: little more covert than that.

257
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 4: And you'll see why we find this optimism a bit

258
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 4: chuckle worthy. After word from our sponsors.

259
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy.

260
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 4: There are tons and tons of inventors and scientists whom,

261
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 4: depending upon who you ask, depending upon whom you ask,

262
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 4: ran a foul of great powers. Remember we talked about

263
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 4: Rudolph Diesel. What happened to that guy? Did he just

264
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 4: did he just fall overboard?

265
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

266
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 2: He disappeared on a ship during a night walk.

267
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

268
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,840
Speaker 2: Well, people saw him go into his quarters and then

269
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 2: they were folded.

270
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 3: There was a watch like left on his night stand

271
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:13,240
Speaker 3: sort of.

272
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 5: I believe it was just very much betty By type activities, right, Yeah,

273
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 5: But the big point is nobody saw him leave and

274
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 5: nobody found his body.

275
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 6: If he was deceased and.

276
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 3: He told people he would see them the next morning,

277
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,080
Speaker 3: it's sketch, guys. I mean, we we we We've already talked.

278
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 5: About it, but it's I would be hard pressed to

279
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 5: believe anything other than he was taken out.

280
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 2: It's tough, right, Well, wait, really could what was the

281
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 2: connection he was potentially going to sell his technology or.

282
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 5: It was like a bad deal to there was some

283
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 5: kind of weirdness, right, But wasn't there some kind of

284
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 5: weirdness about the deal where it was like, really, was

285
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 5: it really lucrative for him or was it kind of

286
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 5: like him not getting Delta good hand? It was it

287
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 5: was something like in one extreme or the other, Like

288
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 5: it was either a really good deal for him, a

289
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 5: really bad deal for.

290
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 4: Him, and he had money problems. He had Zack Duffel bags, yeah,

291
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 4: cash and stuff with his wife. I mean in each

292
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 4: of he's a great example because in each of these

293
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 4: following cases, we're going to see accusations of conspiracy. We're

294
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 4: going to see a lot of skeptics who say, hey,

295
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 4: their invention didn't work. It was pseudoscience. And then sometimes

296
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 4: we're going to see a conspiracy blooming just because of

297
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 4: what a person was doing before they die, like their career,

298
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 4: their hobbies, their interests, whatever view you might take, fellow

299
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 4: conspiracy realist, We're going to see a lot of questions

300
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 4: that remain unanswered. Maybe we start with a doctor Rodney

301
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 4: Marx shout out to what happens when someone dies in Antarctica,

302
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,520
Speaker 4: which I think has been on our minds recently.

303
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, especially when someone dies and the death

304
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: isn't even thought to be a homicide potentially right for

305
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 2: a long time.

306
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's let's learn a little bit more about doctor Marx.

307
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,640
Speaker 3: Huh. Absolutely.

308
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,920
Speaker 5: Doctor Rodney Marks was an Australian astrophysicist who was employed

309
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,919
Speaker 5: by the Smithsonian Society, and he was a part of

310
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 5: a research project in Antarctica for the National Science Foundation.

311
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,359
Speaker 5: At the time of his demise on May the twelfth

312
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,440
Speaker 5: of the year two thousand. He was stationed at one

313
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 5: of these research facilities. Guys, Sorry, I'm just getting mad

314
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,919
Speaker 5: true detective vibes such a it's not Antarctica, it's Alaska,

315
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 5: but very much revolving around mysterious deaths at research stations

316
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 5: in the frozen tundra. The station in question here was

317
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,640
Speaker 5: called Ammundsen Scott Station in the South Pole, and upon

318
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 5: his expiration, his cadaver was flown off.

319
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 3: Of the continent immediately over to New Zealand.

320
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,879
Speaker 2: Well, let's go ahead and say he didn't have like

321
00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 2: gunshot wounds, right. It wasn't like one of those things where, oh,

322
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 2: this is a homicide, we need to get this guy out,

323
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 2: or this person is not doing well, we need to

324
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 2: save him and get him out of here. He is

325
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 2: dead and he is sent somewhere, right, And.

326
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 4: It wasn't cyanid to the good people of Thailand. Yeah,

327
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 4: he had this set up there. He had because his

328
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 4: condition deteriorated incredibly quickly, precipitously. Was he was fine one day,

329
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 4: as fine as one can be living in that harsh,

330
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 4: contained environment, and then the day before he dies May eleventh,

331
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 4: he is incredibly unwell. He's vomiting blood, like starts mourning.

332
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 6: Fine.

333
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 4: By the afternoon he's vomiting blood, and he dies. Investigators

334
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 4: were not able to or still not able to fully

335
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,679
Speaker 4: figure out what happened because the body, to your point, no,

336
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 4: was moved so quickly. They did conclude an autopsy that

337
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 4: he died of what's called acute methanol poisoning. No one

338
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 4: who was around and was a very small group of

339
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 4: people here, just like the board game Clue, no one

340
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 4: has come forward to explain exactly how he ran into

341
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 4: a cute methanol poisoning. Investigators did rule out suicide. They said,

342
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 4: we don't have any indications that this guy purposely consumed

343
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 4: this lethal amount of methanol. But then the investigators also

344
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 4: said they got stone walled at.

345
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 5: Every turn, So the alternative being that they were slowly

346
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 5: fed the stuff for no or that it was just

347
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 5: a hazard of the occupational hazard.

348
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 2: I think there was a significant amount of it that

349
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 2: got into something he ingested at some point, so which

350
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 2: then you know, if you're an investigator, you're trying to

351
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 2: figure out, well, how did that methanol get in his system?

352
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 6: Right, That's what Ben was saying.

353
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: And the people who are around him at the time

354
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 2: didn't seem to have much to say about what could

355
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 2: have happened or what the how it got into his body.

356
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,399
Speaker 4: And methanol is related to alcohol, but it's it's not

357
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,640
Speaker 4: the alcohol you drink. It's kind of like Prohibition, when

358
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 4: a poisons government purpose, right, when the US government actively

359
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 4: poisoned people during prohibition. So the question is, yeah, did

360
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 4: he get poisoned on purpose? Is this a homicide? And

361
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 4: if so, why, And if you're an investigator asking that question,

362
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 4: you have to wonder why the National Science Foundation is

363
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 4: not helping you at all.

364
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 3: That is a little odd.

365
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 5: Also, the immediacy of flying the cadaver off to New

366
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 5: Zealand of all places, it's a little weird.

367
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 2: And there's a piece in the New Zealand Herald that gosh,

368
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 2: it was from two thousand and nine. It talks about

369
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: the well at least it alleges, according to some internal

370
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 2: documentation from the groups that were running the station out there,

371
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 2: that there was heavy drug use on the station by personnel,

372
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 2: heavy drinking by the personnel at the station. And it

373
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 2: does I don't know again it it's weird because it

374
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 2: leaves open the door to potential accidental poisoning.

375
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,400
Speaker 4: Right like he because he was a binge drinker, had

376
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 4: he accidentally consumed methanol right, possibly while already inebriated. And

377
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 4: that's from there's a there's a another there. There was

378
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 4: another update to that from Jared Booker, we're talking about

379
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 4: the same article where where where. They also point out

380
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 4: he was one of fifty people on the site. There

381
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 4: were there were a lot of people there, but they're

382
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 4: all clearly identified.

383
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 3: They're all clearly if you.

384
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 4: Were an investigator, you should be able to find and

385
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 4: question them. And even the even the assigned coroner out

386
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 4: of New Zealand had a problem with this. He said,

387
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 4: I don't think New Zealand police and authorities are being

388
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 4: given the information they need.

389
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 5: So no, yeah, I'm sorry, no shade on New Zealand.

390
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 5: But why New Zealand? He is Australian. Was it just proximity?

391
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 2: This is just this was an outfit reporting on it.

392
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: It's David, It's by David Fisher.

393
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 5: By the way, ask why they flew the body of

394
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 5: New Zealand. Yeah, apparently, I guess, like what for them

395
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 5: to do an investigate?

396
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 3: Like who? Who? On whose authority? I guess is my question?

397
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: Right?

398
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 4: Proximity would would be the answer, their proximity and available

399
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 4: investigative okay facilities. Yeah, but we we also don't know

400
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 4: what he was working on, which is the next question.

401
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 6: No, we don't.

402
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: Just part of the weird stuff here and again that's

403
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: just why it's weird to me when you think about

404
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 2: it as either a covered up homicide or an accidental

405
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: homicide or accidental death right within a close knit organization

406
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: like that. It was stated, but at least according to

407
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: this article, it was stated that this should be investigated

408
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: as a homicide immediately upon the body being found and

409
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: then moved to New Zealand. They said the investigator said, hey,

410
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: this should be looked at as a homicide, the medical examiner,

411
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: but that it was not treated that way, and the

412
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: organization that was running the facility, basically whether they whether

413
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: they had anything to do with it or not, people

414
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: were able to go into his room and actually move

415
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: things around, get rid of evidence if they had wanted to,

416
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: and everything was tainted, there was no way to prove

417
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 2: what actually happened to him at that point.

418
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 4: Potentially, Yeah and A police were still wondering whether there

419
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 4: had been US agencies carrying out a full investigation and

420
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 4: whether they in New Zealand would be able to have

421
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 4: access to that investigation. At this point, it seems like

422
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 4: the answer is not really And if we were to

423
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: say this was a case of conspiracy, then we ourselves

424
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 4: would need much more information. We would need to know

425
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: what exactly Marx was working on. The closest we can

426
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 4: tell you is that he was running the Antarctic Submillimeter

427
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 4: Telescope and Remote Observatory or wait for it, ASTRO with

428
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 4: a forward slash between the T and the R, which

429
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 4: I think is just a very cool name. I'm trying

430
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 4: to keep it positive. Yeah, he's working for Harvard Smithsonian.

431
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 4: But we know the cause of death, but we don't

432
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 4: know the circumstances leading to it. The crime scene or

433
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 4: if crime it is is absolutely fubar. This is going

434
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: to remain a mystery unless one of those forty nine

435
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 4: people comes forward with legitimate information.

436
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: So what do you guys think? Is it?

437
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 4: Is it possible that he ran a foul of somewhat?

438
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: It's just hard to say.

439
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 2: If, like imagine, you're in that isolated place, you've got

440
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: some kind some kind of personal conflict with somebody else,

441
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: and it's only it's getting worse and worse because you're

442
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 2: so isolated yet stuck together. Methanol poisoning would be a

443
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: way to do it if you knew that the people

444
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: or the person was around you that drank a lot,

445
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: or you.

446
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 4: Could put it in, right, you could put it in

447
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 4: a familiar container or something. We would just need to

448
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 4: know more about how the how acute methanol poisoning works,

449
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 4: and what the timeframe is. It's also possible that they

450
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 4: this person drank from the wrong container. It's also possible

451
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 4: they were dosed in a way that didn't involve recreational

452
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 4: alcohol consumption whatsoever. It's just tough. But we see again

453
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 4: this thing we're talking about earlier, which is the fact

454
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 4: that this guy is a scientific luminary, and the fact

455
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 4: that his death is and probably will remain so mysterious

456
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 4: naturally breeds speculation.

457
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: It's a big problem. There were forty nine other people

458
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: at the station, right, Yeah, so like that's a lot

459
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: of suspects. That's what what is who's that the detective

460
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 2: who's doing all the movies lately, Like, let's doing all

461
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: the investigation? Oh man, why can't I think of this?

462
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: The one about the glass onion?

463
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 3: Oh not pero, No, it's like a I can't remember Daniel.

464
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's excellent.

465
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: God, what a cool character. He's so funny.

466
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 2: Just imagine that movie, except there are forty nine suspects,

467
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: right right?

468
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 4: Oh, and we are getting a message from mission control,

469
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 4: Ben wi Blanc. Thank you, Thank you, Paul. Let's move

470
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: on to doctor Don Craig Wiley. He had all the

471
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 4: makings of a future Nobel Prize winner until his body

472
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 4: was recovered from the Mississippi River on December twentieth, two

473
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 4: thousand and one. Tennessee and Arkansas police forces in collaboration

474
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 4: rule this death a homicide. He is a biophysics expert,

475
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 4: and he had been missing for more than a month

476
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 4: before his body was discovered.

477
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a weird case. It's a really weird case.

478
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: I think the biggest Well, I guess let's talk about

479
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: it because it's a bridge, right that he must have

480
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: gone over, right, But there's this bridge, allegedly or not allegedly,

481
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: according to the investigation, was pretty protected from somebody going

482
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: over that bridge unless they really wanted to.

483
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it has a two meter fence that's like six

484
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 4: and a half feet on either side.

485
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: Which is not easy to get over unless you want to.

486
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: If you're somebody throwing a body or something, probably not

487
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: gonna happen. It's gonna be a lot more difficult. It's

488
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 2: just a weird place, especially after being missing for.

489
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 4: So long, Yeah, and they found his car on that bridge.

490
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 4: He had a rental car that they found on the bridge. Also,

491
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 4: abandoned vehicles are going to play a big role in

492
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 4: a future episode we're doing. But the FBI does become

493
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 4: involved in this case, and controversially they're the ones who

494
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 4: say he had an accidental death. Somehow he stopped this

495
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: rental car on this bridge, looked at the fence and

496
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 4: said challenge accepted, and somehow fell over to his death.

497
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 4: This another interesting thing here to this pattern we're establishing, folks.

498
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 4: His death comes in the wake of the anthrax scare

499
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 4: in the United States, and according to his peers, he's

500
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: one of the few people who would have been able

501
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 4: to accurately trace where the anthrax had originated to find

502
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: the providence of the anthrax, which remains part of a

503
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: heated debate and conspiracy theories today in twenty twenty four, So.

504
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: Your mind reels, right, oh wow, did someone did someone

505
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: kidnap him and take him away? How did he get

506
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: a hold of a rental car? It was fifteen days,

507
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: But your brain you want to go into investigative mode.

508
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: At least I do, I know, I do. Who would

509
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: have motivation? To take him away from that. Do you

510
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: think he would have motivation to want to escape himself,

511
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: right to disappear for a while because of whatever pressures

512
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: he's getting. There's so many different avenues that you could

513
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: go down with him.

514
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it would have been convenient if we're

515
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 4: playing the fin game. It would have been convenient to

516
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 4: certain people if he were no longer a factor. But

517
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 4: then we would also be assigning a lot of agency

518
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 4: and ability to people who who would be able to

519
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 4: track someone down if they're off the grid via probably

520
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: like credit slips, rental car stuff, whatever kind of technology.

521
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 4: It just seems like it's asking a lot of that conspiracy,

522
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 4: but it also is asking a lot. It's asking an

523
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 4: almost equal amount. To accept the FBI's official explanation, a

524
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 4: guy stops his car, climbs over a fence, and drops

525
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 4: to his.

526
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: Death right by a hydro electric plant.

527
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: Apparently, no no indications of suicidal ideation, et cetera.

528
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: Ah, feels like a dumping, like a body dumping to me,

529
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: but a difficult one somehow for some reason.

530
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: Oh it's spoiler, folks. We're not giving the ad.

531
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 4: We don't have the answers for no of these we

532
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 4: want to hear from you at the end of the show.

533
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: We have no idea you but one last thing nobl

534
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: reads really quickly. I think there is potential for someone

535
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: to have gotten to him before he disappeared. Right, So,

536
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: like weve been we were talking about like having to

537
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: track him down with rental car stuff and in credit slips.

538
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: I think there's potential that somebody got to him and

539
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: then the disappearance occurred because he was with somebody, but

540
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: then they's.

541
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 4: Been held and then transported perhaps uh perhaps put to

542
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: the question, right.

543
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going to ask if if you guys

544
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 5: thought there was any indication of like some mysterious third party,

545
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 5: you know, like and I hear when I think of

546
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 5: like dumping bodies, I'm like, well, you gotta have help.

547
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 3: To do that.

548
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: So little has been released.

549
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, even now, Yeah, it's it's it's tough. It is

550
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: a good question, you know, because to to approach an

551
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 4: answer here, conspiratorial or mundane, we would need to know

552
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 4: at least a little bit of what happened in that

553
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 4: half month, in those fifteen days, right, is it possible

554
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 4: like when someone gets abducted, for example, if they're being interrogated.

555
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 4: Then the idea is you always want them to feel

556
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 4: like they can escape the situation at some point, right

557
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: if they pay obedience and they comply, then maybe they'll

558
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 4: get away with a few broken fingers or whatever. And

559
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: we're not saying that happened here. We are saying that

560
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 4: it is a very mysterious death. And you cannot blame

561
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 4: friends and family for refusing to accept the FBI's explanation

562
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: like that. You know, you you would need an accomplice

563
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: or a perpetrator for a body to be thrown from

564
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: a bridge, And if someone just decides to jump off

565
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: of a bridge, you would to make that story stick,

566
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 4: you would need to have some indications of their mental

567
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: state up to that moment, and in both cases, we

568
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 4: simply don't have that information.

569
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: No, it's a weird one.

570
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it is, indeed, And I think we got

571
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 5: a couple other weird ones on our hands as well.

572
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 4: Okay, here's one to that point. Here's one that I'm

573
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 4: a little skeptical about. Eugene Malov m A. L.

574
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: L ove.

575
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 4: At the time of his death in May of two

576
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 4: thousand and four, he was a leading scientist in a

577
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 4: being diplomatic here a controversial concept the field of free

578
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: energy he had been. I think his death though, was

579
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 4: probably unrelated to whatever his research was. I think it's

580
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 4: I'm like, not one hundred percent, but it looks like

581
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 4: it was just other bad actors being bad people.

582
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, it's a problem where if you are involved

583
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: in something that sounds super cool and potentially dangerous, like

584
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: free energy, right, could you actually build something that would

585
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: rival the big energy companies? And would they want you

586
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: dead because of that? Even if you're doing all that stuff,

587
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: no matter how successful your inventions are and your pursuits are,

588
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: you can still have problems with other individuals that enter

589
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 2: your life that have nothing to do with your research

590
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: that could cause your demise. I think this might be

591
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: an example of that.

592
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 4: I'm tempted to agree, Yeah, because, like, imagine when you

593
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 4: hear what happened to folks, Imagine if this guy had

594
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 4: just been really into fly fishing. Imagine if instead of

595
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 4: researching free energy, he was researching better ways to build

596
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 4: fishing lores.

597
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, you know so, and then hear this.

598
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: And then hear this, all right, so let your minds diverge.

599
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: We're going multiverse.

600
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 4: Malav's been renting out his former childhood home to a family.

601
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 4: The name of the family is the Schaefer family and

602
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: later the son of the Shaffers. Chad along with one

603
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 4: of his friends, Mozelle Brown, and along with Chad's girlfriend

604
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 4: Candace Foster, they get charged with this scientist murder in

605
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 4: May of two thousand and four.

606
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: Apparently what happened.

607
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: What occurred was that these two guys Brown, Brown and Schaeffer,

608
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 4: Chad Shaffer, Mazel Brown, they beat doctor Malav to death.

609
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 4: And they didn't do it because of problems with free energy.

610
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 4: They did it because he was evicting Chad Shaffer's parents

611
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 4: from that rented home because they hadn't paid their rent

612
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 4: in a couple of months. And you can see testimony

613
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 4: with Candace Foster. You can see where these folks got booked.

614
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 4: The investigation looked pretty solid. It's still it took even then,

615
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 4: no allegations and conspiracy. It took police years to make

616
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 4: the connections and the arrest.

617
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: Which seems insane. Welve was there cleaning the home that

618
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 2: night at like eleven PM at night, cleaning the home

619
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: after the eviction, and police didn't think to imagine that

620
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: those who had been evicted could have been a part

621
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: of it.

622
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 6: It does.

623
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 2: It makes me wonder if even detectives can get taken

624
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: down the wrong path when you introduce something like, oh,

625
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: this guy was working on free energy. Oh man, right,

626
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just how do you not make

627
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: that connection almost immediately because they they would, These are

628
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: people who would who would have the perception that they

629
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: are victims of this guy, right, despite whatever their actions.

630
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 4: Were, Which makes you think too, you know how easily

631
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: the course of an investigation may be altered because you're

632
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 4: looking for anomalous, unusual things things of note, research into

633
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 4: free energy is one of those things, more so than

634
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: fly fishing. But you have to consider all of these aspects.

635
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: So for those of us played along at home, we

636
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 4: have we have two cases where we can't say for

637
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 4: sure what happened. We have one case where it does

638
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 4: seem like a tragedy, an egregious an egregious act of homicide,

639
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 4: but not related to scientific pursuit. Do we want to

640
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 4: take a break for a word from our sponsor? I

641
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 4: have the feeling we got a couple more to get

642
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 4: to here, it seems right.

643
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: And we have returned.

644
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 4: Here is another death without an answer what happened to

645
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: the physicist and nuclear research scientist. We had to do

646
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 4: at least one named John Mullen.

647
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: Just one John, or one one one nuclear research scientist

648
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: named John Mullen, named John Mullen out out of the

649
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: very many. Right, Oh yeah, this case is whoo this

650
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: one again. If you're just I go so speculative on

651
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: these and I play the if then game, ben, I

652
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: think to my own detriment here. But let's let's just

653
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: do the facts of this one. Doctor John Mullen died

654
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: of arsenic poisoning, and according to authorities, it's believed that

655
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: that poison somehow found its way into a drink that

656
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: he consumed, and they couldmit they made that connection. And

657
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: initially who did they think maybe was the culprit?

658
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, his girlfriend at the time is romantic partner Tamara Rallo.

659
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 4: This was also in two thousand and four, and they

660
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 4: thought they thought that she would be the top person

661
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 4: of interest. She was actually going to be arrested on

662
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 4: suspicion of homicide.

663
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 6: But then what happened, m then she ends up dead.

664
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 5: And then at the time, investigators on the case didn't

665
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 5: really give up much information to the media as to

666
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 5: whether or not she'd committed suicide or there had been

667
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 5: some foul play suspected. There has, at the time of

668
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 5: this episode that we're recording right now, been no conclusive

669
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 5: answers to these questions.

670
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: So your primary suspect ends up dead, there's no trial.

671
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: Isn't that convenient? I'm just saying.

672
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

673
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 4: Also considering two weeks after the murder of Mullet, and

674
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 4: they do conclude, by the way, investigators conclude that he

675
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 4: was drinking. He was a mineral water guy, so he

676
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: drank some mineral water and it had been laced with

677
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 4: a fatal dose of arsenic. Two weeks after the murder,

678
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: his girlfriend Rollo, who's fifty two at the time, she

679
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 4: leaves a message with one of Mullen's children, one of

680
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 4: his two sons, and in the message, this is per

681
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: Mullen's son. In the message, she says, quote, don't be

682
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: surprised if you find my body floating in your dad's

683
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 4: swimming pool.

684
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: Wow.

685
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 2: See did he did? Did doctor Mullen know something? And

686
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: he even divulged to tomorrow that he knew something, as

687
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: you know, connected to his contract with Boeing. But but

688
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: just the fact that he did have a contract with Boeing.

689
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: He's working on stuff that could be potentially highly secretive

690
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: and dangerous, like genuinely secret, secretive and dangerous compared to

691
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 2: you know, the free energy or something like that.

692
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

693
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: I just thought that was interesting because it is convenient.

694
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,479
Speaker 2: Do you have someone the main suspect die before there's

695
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: any trial or discovery or anything like that.

696
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, the best way to keep a tomb secret is

697
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 4: to kill the people who dig their grave, you know,

698
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 4: I mean shout out to tengus Khan. But also, you know,

699
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 4: if we were exercising skepticism, we can do a couple

700
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 4: of counterpoints. One, Boeing has a lot of contract workers,

701
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 4: right and uh, And two is Boeing's Does Boeing have

702
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 4: the operational capability to execute a homicide?

703
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: They just put a hole in a fuselage right right right?

704
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 4: So like the more conspiratorial thing would be he had

705
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 4: some he had some disturbing whistleblower knowledge of some sort,

706
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 4: whether that's croket funding, whether that is poor engineering oversight,

707
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 4: et cetera. And that he was silenced and that his

708
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 4: girlfriend was silenced as a result. But again no proof,

709
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 4: no proof, and police did interview her before death, and

710
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 4: they said she was talkative, she wasn't defensive, but I don't,

711
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know. Later, Rollo's daughter found a

712
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: book under her mother's mattress that talks about how to

713
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: kill people with poison. Most folks are most folks are

714
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 4: kind of sloppy on this stuff. Your phone searches aren't secure,

715
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 4: and honestly, a VPN is not going to help you.

716
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 5: Just to be clear, you guys, I've had a sick

717
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 5: family for the last couple of weeks, so I've had

718
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 5: a lot of opportunities to hang out at Walgreens and

719
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 5: I couldn't help but notice a giant display of I

720
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 5: guess it's like defrosting kind of fluid.

721
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: It's that blue fluid that.

722
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 5: Comes in the giant jugs and there's massive warnings on

723
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 5: the back about what happens if you ingest it. But

724
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 5: my sick conspiracy brain immediately jumped to man, what a

725
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 5: way to get to someone who's a big fan of

726
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:56,959
Speaker 5: Blue Power Aid?

727
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 3: Am?

728
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: I right?

729
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 3: Dogs love it too because it's as sweet. It's sweet apparently,

730
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 3: And that's the problem.

731
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 5: Right, You could put it in power Aid, just not

732
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 5: one hundred percent, and if someone drinks that stuff five

733
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 5: times a day, they'd probably never notice it. If they

734
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 5: didn't notice it had been tampered with. But yeah, sorry,

735
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 5: that's just These are the kind that's been always says

736
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 5: we're fun at parties.

737
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: I'll tell you guys. Okay, So I I go through

738
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: way too many cans. I'm a bad citizen of the art.

739
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,479
Speaker 3: You recycle though you're not that bad.

740
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 2: That true, but but I'm still I think in the

741
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: in the end, I'm probably not a good I'm not

742
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: good to myself because of the stuff that's on the

743
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: insides of those cans and all the everything we've done,

744
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: all the stuff we talked, all the good ones, and

745
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: sometimes they don't get recycled, depending on where I am

746
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 2: and if I can gain access to a recycling bin

747
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: or not. Right, I am so paranoid about the click

748
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: and the pop you get if I open up a

749
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 2: can and that's supposed to be carbonated and it doesn't

750
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: have just the exact sound that I'm looking for, I

751
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: dump that baby out.

752
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 3: Pop right?

753
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 6: Yeah?

754
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: Right, you really do that? Yeah?

755
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 5: You do know?

756
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 3: Wow.

757
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: And it's not because I actually think anyone's trying to

758
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: poison me or I think about the manufacturing process, and

759
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 2: I think about like a flaw that could have happened

760
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 2: in one They got so.

761
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 3: Many steps along the way where things could go wrong.

762
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 6: I'm just like, I'm not gonna take the risk.

763
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 5: Well, guys, remember back in the day where it was

764
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 5: so much easier to tamper with even like medicine, and

765
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 5: there were all these scares of like people like poisoning

766
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 5: aspirin and stuff, and that was literally what led to

767
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 5: like child safety caps and.

768
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: Stuff like that. I mean, we're better than we used

769
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: to be, but it is still kind of scary.

770
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, both the good and bad actions of the world

771
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 4: are easier than you think, folks, And that's something that

772
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 4: should stick with all of us. And speaking of questions

773
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 4: that remain, We've got got a couple more examples for you.

774
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 4: As we said, this is a continuing series because there

775
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 4: are a lot out there. Do you guys remember the

776
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 4: story of Aaron Salter Junior.

777
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: This one, I.

778
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: Don't know slightly rings a bell, but no, I don't

779
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 3: think so either, know.

780
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 4: So, Aaron Salter Junior, like so many people in the

781
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 4: United States, falls victim to a mass shooting and a

782
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 4: frankly terrifying thing about the US then, as of now,

783
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 4: is that the mass shooting's happen so often here right,

784
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 4: far more often than in many other countries. Aaron Salter

785
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 4: Junior is not an inventor by trade. He was a

786
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 4: career police officer in Buffalo and in his retirement he

787
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 4: took a security guard job at a place called tops

788
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 4: Friendly Markets. He also picked up a hobby, which is

789
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 4: one of his late primary drives. At this point, he's

790
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 4: working on an invention of fuel cars with water electrolysis.

791
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 3: So he's making a water powered car.

792
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 4: In fuel cell yeah yeah, And he's in a lot

793
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: of interviews where he's talking about the invention. You can

794
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 4: see compilation clips of him on YouTube quite easily. He

795
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 4: dies when he's fifty five years old and he's trying

796
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 4: to defend people at the tops Friendly Market. There's an

797
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 4: eighteen year old mass shooter. Salter ends up being one

798
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 4: of ten people who are shot to death by this guy.

799
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 4: This guy is a white mass shooter and according to investigators,

800
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 4: his attack was racially motivated. He was aiming to kill

801
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 4: black people. So there we see a tragedy that is unfortunately,

802
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 4: heartbreakingly all too common in the US. But then we

803
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 4: also see that one of those ten victims is a

804
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 4: guy who's actively working on a hydrogen fuel cell a

805
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 4: water powered car. So people start putting the dots together.

806
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 6: It's ben.

807
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: It says here that police say Salter actually had a

808
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 2: weapon himself and fired back at the gunman.

809
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 4: Yes, he died attempting to defend people. Yeah, wow, this

810
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 4: was This was quite recently too. This mass shooting occurred

811
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 4: on May fourteenth, twenty twenty two.

812
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 5: Kind of wild because this guy wasn't like some sort

813
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 5: of funded, you know, researcher. He was just kind of

814
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 5: working on this stuff like as a hobby almost right.

815
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was independent, he was self starting. This feels

816
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 3: like a coincidence to me.

817
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 5: I don't know if it feels relating, because especially to

818
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 5: your point of the motive of the shooter in the

819
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 5: first place.

820
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, and we don't want to give the shooter

821
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 4: too much air time. But no, that was his motive.

822
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right. The guy's name was Peyton s. Jendron

823
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 4: or Gendron geen Dron. Got sentenced last year, actually almost

824
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 4: exactly a year ago today. Got sentenced to eleven consecutive

825
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 4: life sentences, which consecutive means one after the other, so

826
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 4: he can't serve him concurrently, he's not getting now, got it?

827
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

828
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm kind of with you, with you guys

829
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 4: on this one, because there's there's a Facebook video from

830
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 4: the Facebook account called nineteen Keys, number one, number nine

831
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 4: keys that links Salter's death to his earlier claims of

832
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 4: this water powered car invention. And the concept here seems

833
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 4: to be that this mass murder might be some sort

834
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 4: of elaborate cover story or cover up meant to silence

835
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 4: yet another inventor who poses an existential threat to the

836
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 4: established energy and transit industries, and looking into it, I

837
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 4: don't see it. You know, we're not the end all

838
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 4: be all arbiters of the truth here, but it feels like, again,

839
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 4: because of what he was interested in in his life

840
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 4: in his retirement, that maybe there's a little bit of

841
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 4: red string from points that may not actually be connected.

842
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 3: And he did he did die defending people. He was

843
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 3: a hero.

844
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 6: I didn't know.

845
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 2: He was a former police lieutenant for the Buffalo Police

846
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 2: Department and he was the security guard at the place

847
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: where the shooting. Where where the shooting took place, Aaron

848
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 2: Salter Junior was was a security guard. Yeah, I didn't really.

849
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 3: You're saying, yeah, at Top's Friendly Market.

850
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: I didn't realize he was a security guard. But I

851
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: don't know why that left my brain as we were

852
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: talking about it and I was trying to connect dots here,

853
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 2: I missed that. So that was just his side gig,

854
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: or his maybe primary gig, and then doing the other

855
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: thing on the side in retirement. I don't see how you.

856
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: I don't see how you target the security guard in

857
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 2: a mass shooting like that on purpose, right, If you're

858
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: just going to take out the security guard, I don't

859
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: know why anyone would come up with a plan in

860
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 2: any darkened room, no matter how illuminati you are to

861
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the plan.

862
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 3: Right.

863
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 4: There are much more efficient ways to try to go

864
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 4: through that kind of assassination, right. You know, you could

865
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 4: target the car, you could target any other weak points.

866
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 4: And it does sound like this guy from what we

867
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: know about the mass shooting. The assailant was streaming on

868
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 4: Twitch dude, and he went into the parking lot and

869
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 4: opened fire, yelling racial slurs. And so the response here

870
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 4: is the response you would have if you were a

871
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 4: security guard. It doesn't sound like it just doesn't make

872
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 4: sense for that to be the kind of cover story

873
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 4: of cover story there is. It sounds like an absolute tragedy,

874
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 4: yet again familiar to American discourse, that has nothing to

875
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,959
Speaker 4: do with the idea of water powered car.

876
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 3: Is that fair to say? I think so?

877
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 6: That's how I feel.

878
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 4: Ok, we have and you know if we are incorrect,

879
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 4: if there's information we're missing, please let us know for

880
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 4: any of these cases, because survivors, families, and friends still

881
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 4: want answers, and often the investigators want answers too. We

882
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 4: were thinking we could end with an update from a

883
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 4: person that we mentioned previously in Mysterious and Veterans Chapter one.

884
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 4: We didn't give the full look at it, but ning

885
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 4: Li Ninglee is anomalous in these cases. Ningle, Chinese American scientists,

886
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 4: shook popular media in the West back in the nineties

887
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 4: and early two thousands because of her seemingly credible work

888
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 4: with anti gravity.

889
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 2: And if you are searching for doctor Lee, you aren't

890
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: going to find a ton written about well, actually no,

891
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: you will find a lot written about her on various

892
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: websites and blogs, but it's tough to come by anything

893
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: written about her that you might take as Oh, this

894
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 2: is a credible source, right that I could cite and

895
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 2: I would feel comfortable with that, except for one Popular

896
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: Mechanics like magazine article that you tracked down, Ben, Yeah.

897
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 4: We had to go through some German sources. But also

898
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 4: you could see Lee being cited, interviewed, examined in popular

899
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 4: science magazines of the day like Discover and Popular Mechanics.

900
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 4: In the article talking about specifically there matt is Taming

901
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 4: Gravity by Jim Wilson, you can see Lee in the

902
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 4: center of a photograph at the top with two of

903
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 4: her colleagues, doctors Campbell and Smally. And what she's holding

904
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 4: there in the middle that looks sort of like a

905
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 4: bunt cake meets a record player. That is the that

906
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 4: is the superconductor disc she made or discovered or invented

907
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 4: that purportedly purportedly against gravity.

908
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 2: It's really dope. When you read about her on those

909
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 2: other places it people think that doctor Kningley was on

910
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: the cusp of something huge when it comes to what

911
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: do they call it, gravitometric fields. I mean, it's really cool.

912
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: It's straight out of the science fiction novels that we love, Right,

913
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: somebody has a breakthrough in this science and now we

914
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: can actually build that UFO type craft that we've been

915
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: trying to make all these years. And the weird thing

916
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: is maybe we should should we go through actually what

917
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: she found, or should we just talk about her her

918
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 2: quote disappearance.

919
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 3: Oh, let's sum it up real quickly.

920
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 6: Okay.

921
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, So like nineteen nineties, two thousands, she is not

922
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 4: just appearing in popular science magazines. She's doing science. She

923
00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 4: co authors a number of papers publishing these various journals

924
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 4: that are arguing the discovery of a practicable method of

925
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 4: fighting gravity. And what she says, or what the theory

926
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 4: is is that you can is.

927
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 3: A deep water we'll keep it brief.

928
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 4: You can rotate ions through a gravitometric field perpendicular, so

929
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 4: at an angle to their natural spin, and this will

930
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 4: nullify some of the effects of gravity. So to break

931
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 4: it down by analogy, we could say she figured out

932
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 4: that you can push ions in a different way that

933
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 4: will change the direction in which gravity pushes.

934
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: So you're just kind of.

935
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 4: Like leveraging the force differently possible. She thought so, and

936
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 4: a lot of her peers did, and then it seemed

937
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 4: like she was onto something. She was working at the

938
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 4: University of Alabama for a while. She left, she created

939
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 4: a limited liability corporation called ac Gravity, which is active today.

940
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 4: Found that like any good company, they're based in Delaware

941
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 4: for tax purposes.

942
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: Of course, but the labs in Huntsville, Alabama, if you

943
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: ever wanted to check it out. So there was a grant, right,

944
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 2: there's there's quite a bit of money that was given

945
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 2: to this organization that she started to check and see

946
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: if there's any sand here could we do that? That

947
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: sounds great, amazing, talk about something that would go straight to,

948
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 2: you know, one of the big defense contractors if this

949
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 2: technology existed, if it's.

950
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: Not already there Tonton Ton Ton.

951
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 6: In nineteen ninety nine.

952
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 2: But the grant, how much was the grant for it.

953
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 4: Was under five hundred thousand dollars, so big to individuals

954
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 4: at the time. But Chump changed, Uncle Sam, oh, we

955
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 4: got the actual number yet, it's four hundred forty eight thousand,

956
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 4: nine hundred and seventy dollars. I don't know why they

957
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 4: couldn't spring for the extra thirty bucks.

958
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: Hmmm. I think it was actually for four hundred thousand dollars.

959
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 2: But that forty eight nine seventy was like a salary

960
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: that somebody got for a year. I think that I

961
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: don't know.

962
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 4: Awesome, it is a specific number. We know the grants

963
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 4: went from to get in two thousand and one, like

964
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 4: you're saying, and it ends in two thousand and two.

965
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,479
Speaker 4: What did they do with all that money? We will

966
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 4: never no, no.

967
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 3: Never know.

968
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 2: Doctor Lee kind of disappeared. You can find several videos

969
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 2: of her speaking at various places for various functions, talking

970
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 2: about the potentials of her research and the science that

971
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: she and her team are doing, and then all of

972
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: a sudden, boop, she's gone. But there is something that

973
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: occurred that I was not aware of last time we

974
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 2: were recording this the first episode, Ben, and that's something

975
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: that happened to her in her personal life.

976
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

977
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 4: So in twenty fourteen, she is still like she's left

978
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 4: the University of Alabama but still definitely has connections and

979
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 4: the lab is in Huntsville. She is walking down the

980
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 4: street in the University of Alabama campus when she is

981
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 4: struck by a vehicle. Her spouse is nearby. Her spouse

982
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 4: sees the accident and so terrified that he suffers a

983
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 4: heart attack permanently damages him. He passes away just a

984
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 4: year later. As a result, doctor Lee does not die immediately.

985
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 4: She suffers what some have called a fate worse than death.

986
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 4: She has lasting significant brain damage, which quite likely led

987
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 4: to her contracting Alzheimer's.

988
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 6: Yes, and there is.

989
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: You can go online. You can find an obituary for

990
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: a doctor ning Lee, and it states that she was

991
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: born January fourteenth, nineteen forty three, and that she passed

992
00:57:53,960 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 2: away on July twenty seventh, twenty twenty one. Then I

993
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 2: wasn't able to verify if this is in fact a

994
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: real obituary for the actual doctor Ningley that we're talking about,

995
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: but it certainly does seem like that. At the top,

996
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 2: it describes her as a seventy nine years old and

997
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: quote one of the world's leading scientists in superconductivity and

998
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: anti gravity.

999
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it is.

1000
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 4: Unfortunately this person's obituary as far as I can tell,

1001
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 4: as well, she passed away. We don't know how far

1002
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 4: this scientist anti gravity research actually went. We don't know

1003
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 4: why the DoD threw five hundred grand at it. We

1004
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 4: don't know what would have happened. We don't you know.

1005
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 4: And also to be clear, we're saying we don't know

1006
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 4: or not try to necessarily imply there was some huge

1007
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 4: overarch and cover up, but we can say the information's

1008
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 4: just not out there. I mean, also, people just get

1009
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 4: hit by cars all the time.

1010
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 2: It's true, It's very true. One thing we would say is,

1011
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 2: like the whole falling out of windows thing, an accidental

1012
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 2: death is a likely choice for someone who is a

1013
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 2: professional looking to hide that a hit is occurring. Just

1014
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 2: putting that out there doesn't mean doctor Lee's death had

1015
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 2: anything to do with that. It is just it is

1016
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 2: a I would say, a likely way to go about

1017
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 2: killing someone you want dead if you're an organization that's

1018
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 2: a little more sophisticated if.

1019
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,959
Speaker 4: You're Yeah, and there's also you know, there's the fact

1020
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 4: that if this person had not encountered this tragedy, they

1021
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 4: would have lived justified through the span of their natural life,

1022
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 4: and the research that they did could have still been

1023
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 4: kept secret. So yeah, there's also the possibility that the

1024
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 4: DoD ponied up the money, which is chump change for them.

1025
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 4: That's just a few pony bones for Uncle Sam, and

1026
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 4: then I think that's for you. And then they looked

1027
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 4: into it and they said, oh, this actually isn't either

1028
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 4: applicable or it Isn't you know there's some error in

1029
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 4: the methodology or something like what is this story of

1030
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 4: the em drive? Remember that from a few years back

1031
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 4: that garnered a similar level of interest, and we haven't

1032
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 4: heard much about it since. Makes you think, I just

1033
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 4: I feel like this just goes to show that it's

1034
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 4: scratching the surface. It tells us a lot about human

1035
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 4: psychology and the need to see patterns. But we also

1036
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 4: still have a lot of unanswered questions. How much of

1037
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 4: this is sheer accident, terrible luck? How much of it

1038
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 4: might be the result of this stuff they don't want

1039
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 4: you to know.

1040
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: We would highly recommend you read the article in Popular

1041
01:00:58,160 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: Mechanics that been found.

1042
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 4: Yes, oh, the article itself is in English. It's just

1043
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 4: easier to find in German, which also makes you think,

1044
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 4: does it not?

1045
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: Sorry?

1046
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: Nine, indeed, maybe we call it a day here, because

1047
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 4: the next part of this, the next part of this

1048
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 4: exploration depends on you, constant listeners, fellow conspiracy realists. Let

1049
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 4: us know if any of these cases are familiar to you.

1050
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 4: Let us know if you have new information, Let us

1051
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 4: know if there are whether there are other inventors or

1052
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 4: scientists you want us to look into can't wait to

1053
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 4: hear from you. We try to be easy to find online.

1054
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 3: Correct to Mundo.

1055
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 5: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where

1056
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 5: we exist on Facebook.

1057
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 3: Where we have our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy.

1058
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 5: We are also Conspiracy Stuff Show on YouTube where we

1059
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 5: have weekly video delights rolling out for your viewing pleasure,

1060
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 5: as well as on x FKA, Twitter, on Instagram and

1061
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:00,919
Speaker 5: TikTok Piers Stuff Show.

1062
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, we also have a phone number. But guys,

1063
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to put one last quote in here from

1064
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: that popular mechanics article because I missed it while we

1065
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: were going through this. This is a quote from doctor

1066
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: Ning Lee when asked about why she continues to turn

1067
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: down money from investors.

1068
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 6: Quote.

1069
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 2: Investors want control over the technology. This is too important.

1070
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 2: It should belong to all the American people.

1071
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 3: Oh wow, No, yeah, she was murdered.

1072
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 2: I just mean that. I in my opinion, that sentiment

1073
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 2: is dangerous because there are people who do want to

1074
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 2: control it, who maybe even already control something like it

1075
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 2: and don't want anyone else to have it. Just putting

1076
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 2: it out there. Hey, we've got a phone number. It's

1077
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 2: one eight to three three std WYTK. When you call in,

1078
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: you've got three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and

1079
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and

1080
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 2: message on the air. If you don't want to do that,

1081
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 2: why not instead to send us a good old fashioned email.

1082
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 4: We can't emphasize the importance of the email, folks, we

1083
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 4: read every single one we get. A shout out to Trent,

1084
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 4: who introduces us to the importance of pronunciation, saying I

1085
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 4: wanted to address the pronunciation of guy Anna and Siquibo

1086
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 4: talking about our Venezuela Guiana episode or guy Anna episode.

1087
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 4: You pronounced them like most people would and do, but

1088
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 4: neither a Spanish words. Pronouncing them in a Spanish sounding

1089
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 4: way only helps give credence to Venezuela's claims. Guyana is

1090
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 4: pronounced like die anna, si Quibo is pronounced with the

1091
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 4: qui like in quit. It's an Amerindian word, and although

1092
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 4: it looks Spanish, it is not pronounced that way. Thank

1093
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 4: you so much, Trent, you are absolutely correct about the pronunciation.

1094
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 4: Please please please send us any and all messages you

1095
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 4: feel your fellow conspiracy realist no conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1096
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want You to Know is a production

1097
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1098
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.