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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. Happy Labor Day everybody. It is Monday,

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Speaker 2: September first. It is the start of a new time.

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Speaker 2: We have somehow seen the end of summer. Oh, here

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Speaker 2: we are, and I am just so glad that we're

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Speaker 2: all here together tonight. I'm stephie Leidecker. Body, go ahead,

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Speaker 2: give it to you.

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Speaker 3: Happy for Pumpkin Spice season to begin, that's all. Let's start.

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Speaker 3: You can have mine. You've been saying that for a week.

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Speaker 2: And of course, Courtney Armstrong, I have to be honest.

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Speaker 2: We have the whole team together right now. So we

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Speaker 2: have the whole crew. We have Taha of course as always,

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Speaker 2: we have Body, we have Sam and Adam in the

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Speaker 2: control room, of course Courtney Armstrong. And now tonight Ava

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Speaker 2: Kaplan making her radio and podcast debut. She's our associate

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Speaker 2: producer on the show here at Katie Studios and listen,

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Speaker 2: She's going to be reporting to us tonight for the

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Speaker 2: very first time live. So again, if you had an

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Speaker 2: amazing weekend, we want to hear all about it, And

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Speaker 2: if you had a cremmy weekend, we also want to

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Speaker 2: hear about that. And we're glad you're here with us.

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Speaker 2: It happens. Listen, I was like lazy bones today. It

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Speaker 2: was a weekend, right, So I hope you guys were great. Body,

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Speaker 2: you had a good one.

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Speaker 3: I did. I had a great weekend. It was very relaxing.

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Speaker 3: I loved it. You had a proper couple days off.

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Speaker 3: How about you?

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Speaker 4: I did, Although I was just saying I watched more

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Speaker 4: Summer House in one weekend than I should be admitting.

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Speaker 2: That's okay, Listen. Myself included. I watch a little bit

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Speaker 2: of my Bravo today too, on a loop. Frankly, and

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Speaker 2: here we get to be together again. Not to belabor

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Speaker 2: the Labor Day thing, but I think we all should

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Speaker 2: say some intentions for what this upcoming season is going

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 3: And look, we also have a stacked night of headlines.

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Speaker 2: Ava Kaplan here making her debut, because we all want

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Speaker 2: to know what happened to Amy Bradley. We watched the

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Speaker 2: documentary on Netflix. We're all super curious. She allegedly disappeared

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Speaker 2: off of this cruise ship and frankly, we want answers,

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Speaker 2: So Ava's going to give us some up to date

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Speaker 2: reporting on that. And then Body, of course weighing in

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Speaker 2: on the Heaven's Gate cult. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: guys know about that one, but it is super intense.

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Speaker 2: So body's been talking about this for a while. She's

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Speaker 2: going to share with us more on that. And also

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Speaker 2: Roebox is back in the news. If you haven't been

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Speaker 2: watching the news somehow, Roadblox is all over it because

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Speaker 2: it is getting some kickback, some lawsuits and allegedly there's

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Speaker 2: some predatory behavior happening on this platform.

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Speaker 3: It's chat.

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Speaker 2: Shept also up first conversation, so important that we have it,

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Speaker 2: and also some talkbacks because we're trying a whole new

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Speaker 2: format tonight. We are actually extending the show, so you're

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Speaker 2: going to get more show and more time for Collins

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Speaker 2: and you know, listen eight eight eight three one crime.

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Speaker 2: You should know that by now, or just leave us

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Speaker 2: a voicemail on that number. You could also leave us

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Speaker 2: a talkback on the iHeartRadio app. You could also just

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Speaker 2: catch us on our socials at True Crime Tonight's show

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Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

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Speaker 3: So there's no excuse. Jump in join the conversation.

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Speaker 2: We want to hear from you because listen, we made

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Speaker 2: it to Labor Day, so let's bring in some autumn

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Speaker 2: and some fall, and luckily we get to.

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Speaker 3: Do it together. Yeah. First we're going to go to

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Speaker 3: our talk back. Ironically.

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Speaker 5: Hey, y'all, this is his name from Round Hills, Virginia.

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Speaker 5: I'm just calling to tell you, guys how much I

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Speaker 5: love your show. I started listening when I started marathon training,

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Speaker 5: and I am so. I find it so ironic, how

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Speaker 5: sweet and cute and relatable, and it's funny it all

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Speaker 5: can be talking about true crime. It's so great. So

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Speaker 5: I'm hanging with my best thanks.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's training for a marathon. I was like, cool

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Speaker 3: is doing a marathon?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 3: So what is that marathon?

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Speaker 7: Is?

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Speaker 3: How much? It's like many miles?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 3: Twenty six point two miles? Oh god, I can't even

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Speaker 3: run one, like, God, bless you. If I'm running, somebody's

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Speaker 3: chasing me with a knife or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like a bear, like a bear, like a bear

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Speaker 2: bear is chasing us? Yeah, it's one of my brothers

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Speaker 2: and my nephew Andrew. They're iron Men. Oh they ran

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Speaker 2: the Iron Man, which is like much it's craziness, but

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Speaker 2: marathon runner.

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Speaker 3: Whatever we can do to get you through your workout. Amen.

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Speaker 3: And that was so nice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for that kindness, serious because like it's yeah,

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Speaker 4: like life is hard and it's nice to hear nice

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Speaker 4: things now and then, you know what I mean, instead

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Speaker 4: of just like all the darkness and despair.

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Speaker 3: So thank you so much for that. That was really

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Speaker 3: really nice.

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Speaker 2: And I will say to that end, you know, we're

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Speaker 2: coming off a long weekend and everybody's doing their thing,

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Speaker 2: and it looks like on social media there's all these

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Speaker 2: barbecues and fun things and a million great amazing and

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Speaker 2: that's not the case for everybody, right, everybody's having their

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Speaker 2: own version of a couple of days weekend. So if

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Speaker 2: you're feeling a bit displaced, I'm so glad you're here.

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Speaker 3: You're here, we all are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome to our kitchen table chat, so call us.

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Speaker 2: You're not alone. And if you had the best weekend,

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Speaker 2: tell us all about it. So yeah, I know, there's

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid back in the news. Indeed, what Yeah, Courtney's

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Speaker 2: gonna fill us in.

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Speaker 4: So we haven't spoken about here in what feels like

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Speaker 4: too long to me, actually missing I do.

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Speaker 3: I know, I don't believe you do, body, I don't,

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Speaker 3: but I do. I don't not miss her. It's just

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Speaker 3: you know, I get it. I get it.

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Speaker 4: So gentle reminder, Karen Reid was accused of killing her

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Speaker 4: police officer boyfriend John o'keef. This was back in twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty two, and the allegation was that she ran over

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Speaker 4: him with her suv okay misstrial in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 4: super high profile mistrial in twenty twenty five that finished

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Speaker 4: up not that long ago, and she's been acquitted of

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Speaker 4: all homicide related charges. The only thing was she was

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Speaker 4: found guilty of driving under the influence. So she's not

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Speaker 4: very happy right now. It's the first time she's spoken

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Speaker 4: out publicly since her trial ended, and she's a vowing

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Speaker 4: legal retaliation against law enforcement and prosecutors, and she wants

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Speaker 4: to publicly reclaim her narrative. So yeah, both her and

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Speaker 4: her attorney, Alan Jackson, who I thought was such a wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Sis great lawyer. Oh he's a great lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Pretty magnanimous, like, that's kind of the lawyer that you

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Speaker 2: think of when you think in the movies what a

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Speaker 2: lawyer is going to be. Like, So Deddie devoted like

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Speaker 2: a dog with a bone and systemic.

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Speaker 4: He just went through everything point by point and I

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Speaker 4: thought his case was great, and obviously so did the jurors.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, listen, they are planning a lot of civil

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Speaker 4: litigation Massachusetts State Police, Norfolk County's DA office, and even

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Speaker 4: possibly some individual investigators, which I mean, it makes.

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Speaker 3: Sense kind of child, but I don't think I mean,

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Speaker 3: can you sue for being prosecuted like that? Like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know that you can. They have like qualified immunity,

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Speaker 3: don't they from this kind of stuff. I don't know

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Speaker 3: that'd be I don't you know.

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Speaker 4: That's something we should look into, though, because if they're

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Speaker 4: speaking about suing them, they attorney Muster looked in, you know,

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Speaker 4: looked into it.

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Speaker 3: But it just than me. I mean, don't listen to me.

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Speaker 3: I just if everybody sued who was prosecuted and acquitted, it.

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Speaker 4: Would be ridiculous. I agree in this instance though, Remember

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Speaker 4: what the defense purported was that these investigators is some

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Speaker 4: of them were potentially involved in the actual death of

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Speaker 4: John Keith and that they and that's framed care.

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Speaker 2: Exactly and by the way, that there was a potential

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Speaker 2: cant they know, we cover up. So there This has

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Speaker 2: been two trials, so as a reminder, the first trial

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Speaker 2: that Karen Reid went through was a mistrial, meaning the

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Speaker 2: jury was not able to come to a decision, so

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Speaker 2: everybody went home.

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Speaker 3: But you know, lawyers are expensive.

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid at some point had a really important job

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Speaker 2: that she has since lost.

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Speaker 3: She was also working as a professor.

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Speaker 2: I believe also since lost that job, so you know,

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Speaker 2: here you are bleeding money. You know, from what I

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Speaker 2: can tell, She's also living back at home with her parents.

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Speaker 2: How cute is her dad? She had the sweetest dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: very sweet. But again, you know, the financial drain of

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Speaker 2: being accused of something right or wrong, but in this

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Speaker 2: case wrongfully accused of something not once but twice. You know,

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Speaker 2: she was at trial for you know, close to two years,

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Speaker 2: let alone the prep of that trial, let alone the

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Speaker 2: emotional toll of that trial. You've now lost your jobs,

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Speaker 2: you've lost your home. She can't even get her Lexus back,

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Speaker 2: that was the vehicle at the center of this crime.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why even she would want it back.

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Speaker 2: It's probably bad usual. But at this point she can't

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Speaker 2: even get her car back. So what is Karen Reid

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Speaker 2: to do? And we also heard reports not to get

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Speaker 2: on a tangent, but Elizabeth Banks, the famous beautiful actress,

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Speaker 2: is playing her in a scripted series unauthorized according to Karen.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, she doesn't appear that Karen reads on board

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 3: But David E. Kelly, the guy that did I love

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Speaker 3: him and I.

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Speaker 2: Love Elizabeth Banks too, so actually probably so good to

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Speaker 2: play her. Yeah, so, but she's not benefiting from that financially,

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Speaker 2: So keep in mind you have mounting legal bills, whether

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Speaker 2: you're pro Karen read or not regardless, right she it

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Speaker 2: has been found innocent absolutely of John O'Keeffe's death, and again,

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Speaker 2: our hearts are with the O'Keeffe family. They are, you know,

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Speaker 2: still trying to put the pieces back together. John O'Keefe

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Speaker 2: was also caring for his you know, sister's kids because

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Speaker 2: she they lost their parents prior to this incident.

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Speaker 3: So that's a the lead.

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Speaker 2: But secondarily, Karen Reid has also had to she had

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Speaker 2: to lose a lot.

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Speaker 3: And you know, how do you financially come back from that.

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Speaker 4: Well, she is planning to write a book, so I

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Speaker 4: think that may be one part of it.

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Speaker 2: But you had to write it, you know, like even

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Speaker 2: writing whoa I was going to write a book is

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Speaker 2: kind of a big ordeal, right, that takes a minute.

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Speaker 3: Of course she's going to be writing it herself though,

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Speaker 3: and that's very fair too. Oh is that what happens?

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Speaker 3: Like somebody else writes her book?

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Speaker 4: Ghost ghostwriter or they can be you know, someone in collaboration.

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Speaker 3: With but yeah, likely a writer.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, anyway, that is what's doing with Karen Reid.

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Speaker 4: And this is Truecrime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio. I'm

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Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong. I am here with a Body Movin and

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Speaker 4: Stephanie Leidecker and we're kind of going over all the

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Speaker 4: top headlines of the weekend. If you have any thoughts

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Speaker 4: or just want to tell us about your weekend, give

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Speaker 4: us a call eighty eight to three one Crime and Body.

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Speaker 3: I think you have a little news as well. I do.

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Speaker 3: It's not a really big update, but for those of

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Speaker 3: us who've been following the Travis Decker manhunt, it might

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Speaker 3: be very interesting little tidbit. Investigators searching for Travis Decker again.

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Speaker 3: He's been on the run since June second, I believe

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Speaker 3: June second. He you know, in Washington and northern Washington

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Speaker 3: and Idaho near the Canadian border area. He's wanted for

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Speaker 3: murdering his three children, like his three little girls. And

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Speaker 3: just recently they found bones. They found bones, but they

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Speaker 3: don't know if they're human number one. And they don't

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Speaker 3: know of course if they are human, if they're linked

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Speaker 3: to Decker. Yet we're still waiting for that analysis to

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Speaker 3: come in. And you know, I mean, I can't even

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Speaker 3: believe they don't know if it's human or not. I

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Speaker 3: can't imagine like he'd be a skeleton by now, wouldy like, well,

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Speaker 3: if you're out in yeah, it's badly warm. I can't

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Speaker 3: mean you would be like if they can't tell it's human,

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Speaker 3: then it would be total bone, right, like like an

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Speaker 3: arm or something. Maybe.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, Well I can imagine the animals out there, yeah,

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Speaker 4: just whatever kind of real scavengers and what vultures whatever

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Speaker 4: literally pick every single thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, right, So they're they're looking at these bones.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully we'll hear soon if it's related or not. I

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Speaker 3: hope it's not him only because I want him found alive,

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Speaker 3: you know, to suffer. But you know we'll see, well we.

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Speaker 2: Should say also this is in no means and excuse.

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Speaker 2: He is already suffering some tremendous you know, mental health issues.

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Speaker 3: He you know, was a veteran.

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Speaker 2: The idea that he would take his own children if

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Speaker 2: you guys were following this case back in the day

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Speaker 2: when we were covering it originally, you know, by all accounts,

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Speaker 2: he was like a stand up guy. You know, he

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Speaker 2: served our country. He was diagnosed with several things, post

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Speaker 2: traumatic stress potentially from combat being one of them. According

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Speaker 2: to his ex wife, the mother of these three children,

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Speaker 2: I mean again, hearts go out, hearts go out. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even know how to go move

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Speaker 2: on from that statement. You know, she was trying to

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Speaker 2: do the right thing and let her you know, ex

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Speaker 2: co parent even though he didn't have a residence. They

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Speaker 2: went camping outside of the parenting plan. And tragedy really

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Speaker 2: has happened in a way that can't be described. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a where is Travis Decker? Can we hear from him

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Speaker 2: what happened and why? And then we also know he

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Speaker 2: was away from medication and hadn't been using it in

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Speaker 2: a long time. So June second to almost you know,

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Speaker 2: it's almost September. Seconds, there's no way he's still just

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Speaker 2: roaming in the woods.

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine, I mean.

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Speaker 4: There is I mean, he was trained for you know,

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Speaker 4: wilderness survival, and you know, given all of the man

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Speaker 4: hunt power that has been behind it, it's hard to imagine.

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Speaker 3: But not outside the scope. Right. So the bones, again,

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Speaker 3: they were inconclusive as to whether they are human or animal,

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Speaker 3: and they have been sent to the Central Washington University's

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Speaker 3: Anthropology department for analysis, so hopefully we're going to get

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Speaker 3: some you know information soon. You know, what's interesting is

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Speaker 3: during this man hunt they found an overdose victim. You know,

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Speaker 3: in looking for Travis Stepper, they found a body of somebody,

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Speaker 3: an overdose victim. So, I mean, you know, this really demonstrates, though,

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Speaker 3: like the challenging nature of the train that's being covered, right,

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Speaker 3: like their en hard, they're finding other people that went

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Speaker 3: missing or whatnot along the way, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: I think that's pretty interesting. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And first and foremost, we are wishing you the great

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Speaker 2: end to your Labor Day weekend. We hope it was

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Speaker 2: a good one, and we're so grateful that you're sharing

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Speaker 2: it with us. This is like a really new time,

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Speaker 2: kind of marks the beginning of a new season. So

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Speaker 2: if you have some intentions or some tales of your

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Speaker 2: summer to share, we want to hear them. Eight eight

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Speaker 2: eight three one Crime, just to kind of cleanse the

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Speaker 2: palette a bit. But in the meantime, we have Ava Kaplan.

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Speaker 2: Ava is making her associate producer True Crime tonight, KT

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Speaker 2: Studio's debut both on radio and podcast.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 2: She's the one that keeps us in line all day,

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Speaker 2: by the way, so we're so happy she's actually you're

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Speaker 2: going to get to meet her finally, and listen. She's

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Speaker 2: been following this Amy Bradley case just like we all have.

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Speaker 2: We all watch the doc on Netflix. Apparently Amy Bradley,

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Speaker 2: you know, mysteriously died while on this cruise ship and

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Speaker 2: America needs answers.

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Speaker 3: In fact, the world needs answers. Ava, welcome to your show. Yay,

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Speaker 3: we finally get to hear your voice.

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Speaker 2: She works so hard, so Labor Day seems wildly appropriate.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, tell us, what do you think is happening

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Speaker 2: with this? Give us the rundown? First and a little background.

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Speaker 8: So I became obsessed with this case after actually body

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Speaker 8: suggested it to maybe watch for our Dot Club. And

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Speaker 8: then time moved so fast we moved on to other things,

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Speaker 8: but I stayed here. I stayed on the cruise with

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Speaker 8: Amy Bradley. I have not moved on me too, completely

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Speaker 8: obsessed with this case. So I'm so excited to talk

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Speaker 8: about it. And Steph, it's really interesting because you said, Okay,

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Speaker 8: maybe she died on this cruise. Many say she didn't.

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Speaker 8: Many say that she's living out her days in some

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Speaker 8: capacity in the Caribbean. And I would love to dive

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Speaker 8: in with you guys, you about all these theories about

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Speaker 8: what happened to her.

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Speaker 2: So I think that let me just bury the lead here.

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Speaker 2: I think she's alive and well on an island, living

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Speaker 2: her most beautiful best life.

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Speaker 3: That is the hope.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the hope right generally speaking. But I

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Speaker 2: want to hear from you, what do you say?

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Speaker 8: Okay, So just for some backgrounds, if anyone's not familiar

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Speaker 8: with the case. So in March of nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 8: Amylin Bradley, she was twenty three. She's an American, and

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Speaker 8: I also think a reason this case has stuck with

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Speaker 8: me because I'm the same age as her, Like she

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Speaker 8: was just finishing college, starting her career, and she was

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Speaker 8: on a cruise with her family, and yeah, she's relatable.

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Speaker 8: She's just like an American, a normal American girl. Her

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Speaker 8: family was so excited to grow go on this cruise.

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Speaker 8: Her parents actually won it in like a contest for

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Speaker 8: their work.

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Speaker 9: Feel for them and.

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Speaker 8: Long story short, I can get into the timeline maybe

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Speaker 8: if we have some time. But at five thirty am,

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Speaker 8: Amy Bradley's dad sees her sitting out on the balcony

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Speaker 8: of their little cruise room. So you know, every room

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Speaker 8: on the cruise has their little balcony.

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Speaker 2: Amy and her can't miss it, right, like the little

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Speaker 2: cruise like little balcony if you're in the room, like

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Speaker 2: you see Amy on the balcony, clear as that's the last.

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Speaker 8: Dad song exactly. So this was five thirty am, after

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Speaker 8: a night of her and her brother Brad like partying

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Speaker 8: on the boat. Okay, then Brad sees Brad is the brother.

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Speaker 8: The dad sees her the dad's ron, He sees her,

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Speaker 8: goes back to sleep six am. Thirty minutes later, Amy

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Speaker 8: is missing, literally never to be seen again. And there's

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Speaker 8: all sorts of series about what happened. I can walk

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Speaker 8: you guys through the main ones, because obviously the first

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Speaker 8: butt is she was out on this balcony, like, did

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Speaker 8: she fall off? Did she jump? This is what the

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Speaker 8: cruise line wants everyone to believe. And I'm not buying

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Speaker 8: their cruise ship propaganda because if she jumped off or

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Speaker 8: if she fell off, then it's not their fault and

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Speaker 8: then they can be like, have no anything.

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Speaker 3: There's no liability exactly.

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Speaker 8: That's what I was looking for. I personally believe that

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Speaker 8: she was traffic and she is currently being forced into

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Speaker 8: sex trafficking in the Caribbean, and I have evidence to

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Speaker 8: prove it. That was documentary, Amy Regard.

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Speaker 3: Oh what are we giving?

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Speaker 10: Waight?

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Speaker 2: So wait, hold up for one second. So Amy Bradley,

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Speaker 2: your peer basically goes on a family cruise. Yes, suddenly

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Speaker 2: she goes missing. At six am. Dad saw her. She's

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Speaker 2: out partying with her brother, totally the most fun cruise ever.

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Speaker 3: And then it begs the.

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Speaker 2: Question, it seemed as those things were going really well

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Speaker 2: from her. She wasn't despondent, she wasn't in a horrible set.

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Speaker 3: She just break up with her girlfriend. She was having

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Speaker 3: a breakup, that is true.

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Speaker 8: There was thank you for bringing that up, Boddie. They

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Speaker 8: had just broken up, but they had plans to get

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Speaker 8: back together, as the girlfriend was interviewed, and Amy had

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Speaker 8: just bought a new dog, just bought a new apartment,

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Speaker 8: a new job. Yeah, so you know, really good for her.

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Speaker 8: And so essentially this is why I believe that she

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Speaker 8: is still alive and out on the island. Obviously, her

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Speaker 8: parents have been searching for her NonStop and have gone

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Speaker 8: above and beyond, like they've been on Doctor Phil, they've

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Speaker 8: been on America's Most Wanted, They've been like they went

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Speaker 8: back to the islands and did a whole like press release. Yeah,

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Speaker 8: there have been sightings over the years of people who

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Speaker 8: are one hundred percent positive that they have seen Amy

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Speaker 8: on various islands in the Caribbean since she's gone missing.

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Speaker 8: They've seen the wanted posters, they've seen her on Doctor Phil,

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Speaker 8: and they have since reached out to the family and

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Speaker 8: said I saw this woman. And all of the sightings

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Speaker 8: there's something in common, which is she's surrounded by gary

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Speaker 8: looking men who are watching her every move and she

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Speaker 8: is like kind of sending pleading signals to the people

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Speaker 8: around her, being like help me, literally, Ava.

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Speaker 3: How many of these witness sightings do you know that

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Speaker 3: you know about?

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Speaker 8: There were three sightings where she explicitly people were explicitly

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Speaker 8: like I saw Amie Bradley. And then there have been

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Speaker 8: a few other sightings that are like plausible, like maybe

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Speaker 8: it was her.

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Speaker 3: Were they recent or old or so?

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Speaker 8: They all kind of happened in the early two thousands. Okay,

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Speaker 8: and she went missing in nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's the problem. It's also an older case. By

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Speaker 2: the way, if you're just joining us, welcome to true

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Speaker 2: crime tonight. We're talking about Amy Bradley, who was featured

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Speaker 2: in the Netflix documentary We Want to Hear From You

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Speaker 2: eighty eight three one Crime. Because Ava is joining us

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Speaker 2: to kind of fill us in on what some of

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Speaker 2: the possibilities are that.

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Speaker 3: She's still alive.

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Speaker 2: And Ava's just been saying that there's been sightings of

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Speaker 2: her in the Caribbean by various people throughout the years.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So, okay, I can walk you guys through some

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Speaker 8: of the most compelling sightings in my opinion. The first

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Speaker 8: one is so the parents, of course, they have to

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Speaker 8: continue this cruise and then fly home without their daughter.

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Speaker 8: Obviously they're devastated. They're like, oh my god, what do

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Speaker 8: I do? What's going on? So they fly back to

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Speaker 8: the island Cirosaw is the name of the island where

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Speaker 8: the boat was docking when Amy was last seen, and then.

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Speaker 3: Just off the shore of Venezuela. Deserving knows, like where.

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Speaker 8: It's at, Yeah, exactly, And they do a press conference

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Speaker 8: and they have all these posters of Amy's picture and

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Speaker 8: say like, our daughter is missing. Whatever. A taxi driver

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Speaker 8: after the conference comes up to the family describes her

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Speaker 8: exactly knows the outfit she was wearing the day of, says,

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Speaker 8: jeans in a white shirt, which is what she was

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Speaker 8: wearing described on the flyer. It was where that might

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Speaker 8: be true, but it was the outfit she was wearing.

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Speaker 8: I think she had a yellow shirt over and then

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Speaker 8: she was wearing a white T shirt under Maybe I'm

434
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 8: not one hundred percent about that, but he says that

435
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 8: she tapped on the door of his taxi and asked

436
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 8: for a payphone, and then he showed her where the

437
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 8: payphone was, and then she walked in the opposite direction

438
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 8: of the pay phone. Huh.

439
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

440
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 8: What do you guys make of that?

441
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 3: What by the way you.

442
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: Mentioned well you think, can I just say one thing

443
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 2: because I saw this actually just this weekend, ironically unrelated,

444
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: slight tangent, go with me, because you were saying Ava

445
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: that she was giving like signals to people that like, hey,

446
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: this is not cool, and I saw I think on

447
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 2: social media that for women, especially if you're in a

448
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: situation where you feel as though you're being held hostage basically,

449
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: but you're in the public eye and you want to

450
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: give another woman or man a signal, you're supposed to

451
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: go behind your back with your hand, your right arm

452
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: and put the number two up against your back and

453
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: that is supposed to be a signal to the person.

454
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: Walking behind you that you might be in harm's way.

455
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: Slight tangent, moving on, Amy Bradley genuinely didn't do that,

456
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 2: but just something to know moving forward.

457
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 8: Anyway, Well, it's crazy because she didn't do that. But

458
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 8: there's one sighting a former US Navy officer who went

459
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 8: to an illicit brothel and he says that he didn't

460
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 8: report this at the time because he wasn't supposed to

461
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 8: be at the brothel because he was like an on

462
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 8: duty Navy officer. But he sits down. There's two women,

463
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 8: two guys. They're having a drink in this bar, and

464
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 8: when everyone else walks away to get a drink, the

465
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 8: one of the two women literally says to him, my

466
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 8: name is Amy Bradley. I'm being held hosted. Can you

467
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 8: help me?

468
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

469
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, So she didn't need to do a signal. She

470
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 8: according to the point, she literally said that, and he

471
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 8: didn't report it because he didn't want to get in

472
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 8: trouble for like bringing up this.

473
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: Play hard time believing those kinds of people. I do.

474
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: I just have had a moment, by the way, consciousness,

475
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: I just spent a long time, right.

476
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: Did he report this years later?

477
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 8: Oh my goodness, yeah, after he retired.

478
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 3: I just want to let everybody know. I just checked

479
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 3: for the original missing person's flyer and what she was

480
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: wearing is not on it. So that's interesting.

481
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So she was sighted in a white T

482
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: shirt and jeans, which is what this you know, this

483
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: you know firsthand person witness says he saw her in,

484
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: which is in fact what she was wearing. So that

485
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: tracks great, little digging in real time body nice.

486
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, more.

487
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 8: Okay, So obviously that's a big one, and Boddy, I

488
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 8: kind of feel you on that, like do we really

489
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 8: believe this guy? But apparently, like he went to the FBI,

490
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 8: they did a polygraph ten like he said in the

491
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 8: documentary that the FBI believes him to whatever extent they can,

492
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 8: so you know, and then okay, the third sighting, which

493
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 8: I think is the most compelling, is in there was

494
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,239
Speaker 8: a woman who was on a cruise. She gets off

495
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 8: the crew. She's in Barbados and she's having dinner at

496
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 8: this place. She goes to the bathroom. She sees Amy Bradley,

497
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 8: who she doesn't obviously know what's Amy Bradley, but she

498
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 8: sees a woman with two kind of scary looking men

499
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 8: and they're saying things like, oh like something about the deal.

500
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 8: The men leave. Amy goes to the bathroom. Obviously something's wrong,

501
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 8: like she looks like she's crying. The woman, she's an

502
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 8: American woman, can tell that something's weird. She goes, she

503
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 8: tries to make conversation and Amy doesn't answer. At first,

504
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 8: the only thing she says is my name is Amy.

505
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 8: And then when she tries to leave the bathroom, like

506
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 8: there's a man literally waiting outside, like directly outside the

507
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 8: bathroom door for Amy and like escorts her out of

508
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 8: the room. So she's literally being like watched and managed.

509
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 8: It seems like twenty four to seven. And Okay, my

510
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 8: favorite detail about this. Amy reportedly says to one of

511
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 8: these guys, can we stop and see the kids? And

512
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 8: the man is like, yeah, we can stop and see

513
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 8: the kids. And some people think that she has had

514
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 8: kids since she's been sex traffic because it's been like

515
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 8: twenty something years, and that these kids are the reason

516
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 8: why she's not like reaching out trying to leave the

517
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 8: island because she's fearing for her children's safety.

518
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 4: Was very she was very compelling, believable, seemed to have

519
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 4: is no reason, you know, to make up a story

520
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 4: and have very specific memories. And then also I wanted

521
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: to say, because I'm actually definitely with you on this theory,

522
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 4: and part of why is it didn't make sense really

523
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 4: that she fell or jumped because also the tides in parasol.

524
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 4: I'm saying it properly, Yeah, that one hundred percent a

525
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 4: body would have in the come ashore.

526
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 3: The police chief said that he was like, that's right.

527
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: The only way a body is in the ocean, is

528
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: if we get it here like in this area. And

529
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 3: there's two parts of this.

530
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: So her brother, who was obviously with her the night

531
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: that she went missing, has been all over social media.

532
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 3: Body you've talked a lot about that as well.

533
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: And keep in mind, we say the word trafficking very loosely,

534
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: so in case you don't know what trafficking is, imagine

535
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: you're a young, beautiful woman, as Amy Bradley was. It's

536
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: really big business to be taken as a woman of

537
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: any gender, any age, and basically forced by a groupie

538
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: or a grouping of very scary people, men probably who

539
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: force you to have sex against your will and put

540
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: you out there for sexual favors.

541
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: They basically pimp you out.

542
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: The traffic part is is you get moved from location

543
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: to location. So it's it's really difficult to find a

544
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: victim of trafficking because they're being moved through straight lines.

545
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: They're being moved sometimes even into different countries, dare I say.

546
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: And especially in Caribbean, they're all different countries. It's all different,

547
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: so jurisdiction so unclear. In the Caribbean specifically, you know,

548
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: we actually did a little bit of a deep dive,

549
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 3: and it's really unclear in the Caribbean. So if you're

550
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: you know, and we can get to this even as

551
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: a deeper dive at a different time. But if you're

552
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: somebody who wants to do scary things a cruise ship

553
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 3: that also is law, it's law is sovereign right, and

554
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: so not to get super lost in the history, lesson

555
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: here and correct me if I'm wrong anyone. They're not.

556
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: They're in the sea, so they are operating my sovereign law.

557
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: So if you're a bad guy and you want to

558
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: do something, you know, tricky, like steal a young woman

559
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: from a cruise ship who maybe had been drinking the

560
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: entire night that you can get good cash off of,

561
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: she's a prime target, right.

562
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 8: So yeah, Hey, Amy's brother has been like a huge

563
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 8: advocate since this happened of reform for laws and regulations

564
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 8: on cruise ships. He's been promoting International Cruise Victims dot org.

565
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 8: So if you're interested in learning more about this, that's

566
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 8: what she's been promoting. There's one more detail about this

567
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 8: case that I can't stop thinking about. I just want

568
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 8: to say before I go, go go, And then a

569
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 8: missource emailed Amley's family pictures of a sex worker named

570
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 8: Jazz on this like sketchy website. It's like selling sex

571
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 8: workers in the Caribbean and it looks exactly like Amy.

572
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 8: I've seen like those pictures. I really recommend looking them up.

573
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: Can we post those? Maybe we should post those on

574
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: the website. By the way, Eva, you crushed it. Yeah, okay,

575
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 2: so well let's post on the website because maybe we

576
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: can help, you know, put some awareness at this.

577
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 3: And thank you for sharing. What a great job.

578
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 7: Yeah for me.

579
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: She did a star is born a star. She's not available.

580
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: Don't you tear away from us.

581
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, but listen, speaking of you know, available, Thank

582
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: god we have you body, because you've been talking about

583
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: this Heaven's gay cult, which we've all kind of followed

584
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: from a distance, but you're about to take us on

585
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: a pretty.

586
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: Deep dive into remember this a little bit. I do deeply.

587
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so happy that we get a moment to

588
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: unpack it a bit.

589
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: So take it away. This is part of our history.

590
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: I think you know what we're I think we're all

591
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 3: three of us are all gen X, right, and this

592
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: kind of happened and when we were late, you know,

593
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: our late teens and this was kind of a big

594
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 3: deal and so we're going to dive into it. And

595
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: I've always you know, I always wondered at the beginning,

596
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: like why did they do this? Well, I'm going to

597
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: tell you all about it, So your thing a little bit. Listen,

598
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with give me a good cult documentary and

599
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: I'm in it. Wants to analyze, Stephanie wants to join.

600
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: I know, I'm just susceptible to a cult. No, it's

601
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: pretty shocking that, I know. I we get giggles about

602
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: it that I'm not in one.

603
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: And I'm not. I'm atonus that you're not.

604
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: But like tier one of a cult, all sounds pretty good, right.

605
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: The intro tour is pretty interesting. I'm into the community

606
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: aspect of everyone's nice. They're friendly, nice, they're singing. Everybody

607
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: has to hear from you. Oh's loving a community, ask

608
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: for the village, you know, it's a the community. So

609
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 3: I'm perfect. So the Heaven's Gate Cult, so this was

610
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: like a group of like they were all very educated,

611
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: ordinary people who under you know, the two futelage of

612
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: two charismatic leaders, came to believe that their path till

613
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: salvation lay in leaving their human bodies behind. Right. So

614
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: this is at a time you have to remember the

615
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 3: seventies right close Encounters of the Third Kind and you

616
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 3: know later et came out like this was a time

617
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: Star Wars. This is a time when like aliens and

618
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: like outer space and the UFO phenomenon was kind of

619
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 3: like a big deal in like our entertainment and extraterrestrial right. Well,

620
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: so these are when the two cult leaders meet. So

621
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: it was really you know, a fate for them to

622
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: come together. So it begins with Marshall Applewhite. He's a

623
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: Texas born music teacher. He had a troubled personal life

624
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: in the early nineteen seventies. He was, you know, wrestling

625
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 3: with his identity and faith and his own mental health. Right. Well,

626
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 3: he checks into a hospital and his nurse is this

627
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: Bonnie Nettles. She's a Houston nurse and spiritual seeker fascinated

628
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: by the occult and New Age beliefs. You got these

629
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: two people who are kind of like grappling with their

630
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: identities and belief systems. New Age spirituality and Xanadu and

631
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 3: all this is coming out, you know, and the Age

632
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: of Aquarius and all this right, this is the time

633
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: that we're that we're living in so together storms. It

634
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: was the to meet up.

635
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: They don't know each other, but they both have like

636
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: they're like searching, right, They're.

637
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: Both kind of like, you know, yeah, they're meeting it.

638
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 3: They met nineteen seventy two and it was it was

639
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: truly pivotal. Apple White was hospitalized again, like I said,

640
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 3: for emotional issues, and Nettles was his nurse. They struck

641
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: up an instant bond, describing it as if they had

642
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: known each other in past lives. Right, So they became

643
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: T and Dough well, and initially they were Bo and Pepe,

644
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: which was so weird. That is it was the like

645
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: branding was very branding. Yeah, branding is that they were

646
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: Bow and Peepe. That those are their chosen names. They

647
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: drew from like musical notes like T and Doe T.

648
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 3: You know, it's a little thing.

649
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: It's a little weird from.

650
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 3: A weird So they proclaimed themselves. They called themselves the

651
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: two and they were modern day prophets who they modeled

652
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: themselves after Biblical feed figures sent to prepare humanity for

653
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 3: the big transformation. Okay, and that's when we get into

654
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 3: their belief system. Okay, so the belief system was like

655
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: a blend of religion and sci fi and listen, I'm

656
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: here for it. Okay, I'm here for some sci fi

657
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 3: religion like I would probably be in this cult. I'm

658
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: not even gonna lie. By the way, you're a hook

659
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 3: line and sinker. And by the way, for it.

660
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: Later, we have to talk about the asteroid that you

661
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: talked about that's coming to Earth that I later date

662
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: a later thing.

663
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 3: Sorry. I brought that out.

664
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 4: Because it's supposed to come.

665
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: Do we have until I actually.

666
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: Saw it on the news this weekend and thought of

667
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: body and I literally took the phone out of my hands.

668
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 2: So I don't want to digress from Heaven's Gate, but

669
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: it might there might be some you know, some modern

670
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: day crossover worth noting there might be a new cull

671
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: them in.

672
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 3: By nineteen seventy three, they started preaching together, and they

673
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: came to believe they were the two witnesses prophesied in

674
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: the Book of Revelation, chosen messengers preparing humanity for the

675
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 3: next level. Okay, they adopted the names like I already said,

676
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: Bow and Peep and then T and Doe. Later, their

677
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 3: theology blended like Christian and times prophecy with Ufo lore,

678
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 3: which was incredibly popular during this time. Right, and you've

679
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 3: got all these people coming out of the hippie movement,

680
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 3: right looking for their place in life, looking for a family,

681
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: looking for you know, to me identity.

682
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: I literally, Courtney Armstrong is rolling horizon, scratching as in

683
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: a movie, like.

684
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 3: Are you a character?

685
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 10: No?

686
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: No, no, you were scratching your head just now.

687
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 4: Because honestly, what I was trying to think was is

688
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 4: this the time of l Ron Hubbard. That's actually what

689
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: I was, because I was making.

690
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: Over science, by the way, the scientology.

691
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, but this is all a very it's a very

692
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 4: cosmic religious so it no, it makes perfect sense.

693
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: So instead of angels, they had like ets, they had

694
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: like extraterrestrials instead of heaven. They called it the next level. Okay,

695
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 3: so they really kind of just replaced Christian theology and

696
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 3: like specific words with alien lore okay. And Earth they

697
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: claimed was about to be quote unquote recycled, it was

698
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: going to be destroyed in the cleansing apocalypse, and the

699
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,479
Speaker 3: only escape was to evolve beyond human form and bord

700
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: a spacecraft waiting to transport all the faithful to the

701
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: next level. Now, listen, how different is that from heaven?

702
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 3: It's not really all that different, right, it's really not

703
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: not if you're l Valo and Chad Jbo of modern day. So,

704
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: but here's the thing. Here's where, here's where if I'm

705
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: if I'm joining, or if I'm thinking about joining, this

706
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: is where I get Okay, I don't know about this, right,

707
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: Followers had to renounce their family, all their possessions, their

708
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: sexual and their individuality, all seen as earthly attachments holding

709
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 3: them back. They basically had to become androgynouts. They had

710
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 3: those unfortunate haircuts. Yes, they all had the kind of

711
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 3: like weird, dumb and dumber haircut, you know, haircut all gender.

712
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: They were non discriminating. I had haircut. It was a

713
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: Dorothy Hamilgune.

714
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 11: Wrong.

715
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's with a short bang and it goes

716
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: a little over the ear.

717
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: It's terrible. It was that's not here nor there. Yeah, right,

718
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 3: it's not good. So they some of the men even

719
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: you know, did a little castration action. So they became

720
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: they became like androgynists because aliens don't have a gender,

721
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,240
Speaker 3: and so they're preparing again, they're preparing for the next level.

722
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 3: They're preparing for Heaven. Okay. So they drove around the

723
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: country having these little meetings and recruiting people, and they

724
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 3: would have flyers, and their flyers were very UFO centric too.

725
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: So you've got sci fi enthusiasts. You know, Star Trek

726
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 3: is a big deal back then. Oh yeah, true.

727
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 2: By the way, that was the haircut. The Star Trek

728
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: haircut was no walk in the park.

729
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: No, it wasn't. My parents met at a Star Trek

730
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 3: imagine like I yeah, okay, so is that true? Yeah? Big,

731
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: They were big fans, and that's why.

732
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 4: Anyway, I was gonna say, it feels like it makes

733
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 4: a lot of sense. Listen, I have a question for you,

734
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 4: and if anyone.

735
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: Else does, give us a call. Where eight eight eight

736
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 3: three one crime.

737
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 4: This is true crime tonight of course, and body is

738
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 4: telling Stephanie Lydecker and I really walking us through what's

739
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 4: going through the Heaven's Gate cult?

740
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: Right, So, yes, I want to know more. Well, so

741
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: they're traveling around and they're they're growing, they're getting bigger.

742
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 3: So they recruited small groups of followers and they were

743
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 3: often young. And again, these people are educated, middle class people,

744
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: they're they're just disillusioned with like the mainstream, right, who

745
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: is it again? They're coming from the counterculture of the sixties,

746
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: you know this. I'm trying to put you back in

747
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 3: this time, right in this in this time, in some

748
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 3: weird way, some way. So by mid seventies, after a

749
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: large meeting in Oregon, around twenty people abandoned their families,

750
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 3: their jobs, their possessions overnight to join this movement because

751
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 3: they were really convinced this was going to be the thing. Okay,

752
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: now here's where it gets, you know, here's where it

753
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: starts to go downhill. In nineteen eighty five, Bonnie died

754
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: of cancer, Okay, and it was a blow. It was

755
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: a blow to everyone in Heaven's Gate. I mean it

756
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: truly was, especially Applegate, the guy. Right. So, their teachings

757
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: had promised that members would ascend physically alive to the

758
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: next level. So Nettle's death forced a reinterpretation of all

759
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: their beliefs because she died.

760
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: And they weren't a couple or anything right now, they

761
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 2: were totally separate beings. They were just partners in this river.

762
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: Right, So they had to like rework their entire you know,

763
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: scripture basically. So he began emphasizing that the human body

764
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 3: was just a vessel, It's just a vehicle, and that

765
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: death could be, you know, a step towards that transformation.

766
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: So they had to shift their kind of narrative and

767
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: everyone went along with it. And over the next decade

768
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 3: he became increasingly controlling and the group got more isolated.

769
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 3: So the stage was set, right. Wow, Then in nineteen

770
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: ninety seven, guess what do you guys remember, Halbop the comment.

771
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: I do exactly help tell tell us everything in case.

772
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 11: Okay.

773
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: So there's this comet, Hailbop, and it only comes around,

774
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 3: like I can't even remember, like once every two hundred years, okay,

775
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 3: And it was a big thing on the news back then.

776
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 3: You know, it was a big thing. And so for

777
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 3: apple White and his followers, this was the sign they

778
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: had been waiting for. They believed that a spaceship was

779
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: trailing behind the comet and it was sent to carry

780
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: them to the next level, which they have been preparing.

781
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: They had been preparing for this, many levels, all their lives.

782
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

783
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: They gave it all the time for this, They gave

784
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 3: it all up. So enter in the mass suicide. Okay,

785
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 3: So there was a video release. Did you guys ever

786
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: see this Heaven's Gate video? Of course? Okay, so I'm

787
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: gonna describe it for those who haven't. So it's apple

788
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: white and he's sitting in front of like a plane,

789
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 3: you know, pretty plain background, wearing a simple dark shirt,

790
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: and his eyes are like big wide and he's like

791
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: super intense, and you know, there's no production value. The

792
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 3: camera's fixed. It feels more like a homemade confession or something.

793
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 3: But you know, he's just talking to the camera and

794
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 3: he speaks in a really steady but like super passionate tone,

795
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 3: but it's also very calming.

796
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 12: You know.

797
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 3: He explains Hailbop that it signaled the arrival of the spacecraft,

798
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 3: meant to take them to the next level his work.

799
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: You know, he sounds very sincere, he sounds super like.

800
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 3: He seems a little nuts, he does, but he seems

801
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 3: in retrospects right, looking back, looking back, right, he looks

802
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 3: it seems a little and he sends a warning to us.

803
00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 4: All.

804
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 3: He's telling us that the Earth is about to be

805
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: recycled and this exit is the only a chance to

806
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: escape destruction and join the spaceship that's on the heilpop

807
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 3: comet and that you know, he repeatedly stresses that it's

808
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 3: his choice, it's voluntary. He's making it, you know, joyfully,

809
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 3: and he's at peace and they are not being forced.

810
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 3: You know, he's he's very emphatic. And then the followers

811
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: make their own videos and they're kind of similar. Everybody's

812
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 3: very peaceful, everybody's very happy. Again, they all look the same,

813
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 3: they're all the same haircut, so they're all very committed

814
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: that they're going to leave their physical body behind and

815
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: ascend to this spaceship on hailbop and ride off into

816
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 3: the next level. So, in late March, thirty nine members,

817
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: including Apple White himself, they donned identical black clothing. Do

818
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 3: you remember they were wearing like black sweatshirts, blacks Nikes,

819
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: and they.

820
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 2: Had the special nikes they were all wearing back then, though,

821
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: just do it.

822
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 3: It was like kind of like a new Nike slogan,

823
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: and it became like this, you know, pre internet meme. Right,

824
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: just doing it became like a huge that it became

825
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: a huge problem for Nike AnyWho. So they ingested a

826
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: large lethal mixture of barbituates and alcohol and they lay

827
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: down on their beds, covered themselves with the purple shrouds,

828
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: and one by one they died, believing they were not dying,

829
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: but transforming to this higher existence to out you know,

830
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 3: to all of us it looked like mass illusion, right,

831
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 3: But to the members of heaven Gate, this was like

832
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 3: super real. You guys, this is like their belief. Yeah,

833
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: it's their belief, you know. You know, in every element

834
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 3: of Heaven's Gates appearance at the time, their mass suicide

835
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 3: had really symbol you know, some symbolic and practical meeting

836
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 3: had a uniform because they were all the same. They

837
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 3: were the uniform meant something. They were all equal, they

838
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 3: were all the same, they were all androgynists. They were

839
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 3: ready for their new bodies and their alien afterlife. You know, again,

840
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: there's no gender, right, so they're all genderless. The uniform

841
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 3: looks symbol. You know. It was obedience this, you know,

842
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: they're they're all willing to be obedient, and that was

843
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 3: very important to the alien, very interesting. So, you know,

844
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 3: Apple White constantly stressed the need to shed individuality. Uniform hair, clothing, shoes,

845
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: and even the way they arranged their bodies reflected this

846
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 3: belief that they were not separate people. But a crew

847
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 3: like astronauts.

848
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Which is so interesting, like, yeah, we're craving, like they

849
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: wanted a community, but in being in a community, they

850
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: lost their individuality right right, which is.

851
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: So you know, this really shocked everybody when it happened.

852
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 3: It was all over the news. I remember it interrupted

853
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: like Beverly Hills nine o two to one ozero and

854
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: I was like, what is this. Where's Brenda and Dylan

855
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 3: And it was like, whoa wait a minute, they were

856
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: just they right. This happened just south of me and

857
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 3: San Diego. I lived in Orange County at the time,

858
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my gosh. So the website, though,

859
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 3: is still maintained by their surviving members. It still exists,

860
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,959
Speaker 3: frozen in time to digital echo of their conviction. That's fascinating.

861
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 4: And you taught me so many details that I really

862
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 4: didn't know, and yeah, that was really fantasting.

863
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

864
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I

865
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: head up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts

866
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: and documentaries. Check out The Idaho Massacre Season three out now.

867
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 2: And I get to be here every single night, five

868
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: nights a week, Sunday through Thursday with Body Movin, our

869
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: crime analyst. If you don't know her already from Don't

870
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: f with Cats on Netflix, you should, and of course

871
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 2: crime producer and talent the greatest Courtney Armstrong. She's basically

872
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: our voice of every podcast, including The Idaho Massacre, the

873
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 2: Pikedon Massacre. If you haven't heard that, you'll recognize her narration.

874
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: And you know we're in the big leagues here and

875
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: Happy Labor Day, everybody.

876
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: We're so happy you're here. Uh listen.

877
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: If you miss any of the show, no stress, just

878
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 2: catch it right after as a podcast. And we want

879
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: to obviously hear from you, So eight at eight three

880
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 2: one Crime call us or just leave us a talk

881
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: back on the iHeartRadio app.

882
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 3: In fact, we have a talkback right now.

883
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 10: Hi, ladies, it is Sarah from Michigan. And I run

884
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 10: around singing the praise of my therapist.

885
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 3: I love my therapist.

886
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 10: She saved my life and I tell everybody about it.

887
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 10: But recently I had somebody actually seek out therapy of

888
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 10: their own and it went awfully for them, and now

889
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 10: they think I'm crazy. So I just want to remind

890
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 10: everyone that not every therapist is perfect for every individual.

891
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 3: You got to try a few good point, Oh really,

892
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: that a great and by and here's the thing too.

893
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: What sucks is you got to wait so long for

894
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 3: an appointment and then you get there and it's like, Okay,

895
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 3: this is a good thing. You start over. Don't give

896
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: up though, don't get there. Is that at the end

897
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 3: of the tunnel?

898
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I can speak to this firsthand too. Also,

899
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: there's this like perception that you're going to go to

900
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: therapy and then you have to dredge up every terrible

901
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: thing that's ever happened to you in under an hour,

902
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 2: and then you get released back into the world miserable

903
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 2: because you just dredged up every sad thought you've ever had,

904
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: and that you have to continue to do that.

905
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 3: Nothing about that sounds good.

906
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: So it is a chemistry test like it, Chemistry counts

907
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: and personality counts.

908
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: The human counts.

909
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: Again, We're not like, you know, no one is suggesting

910
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: everybody has to have therapy. I'm just speaking for myself.

911
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,479
Speaker 2: It's like, so nice to have a person give you

912
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: unbiased coaching, who's on your side, who lets you vent

913
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: that you don't have to feel bad that you're carrying

914
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 2: on for one hour is the best, but it does

915
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 2: have to kind of be a fit. And personally, I've

916
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 2: like had many many clunkers only to get the win.

917
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 2: And again, like this is a person I personally will

918
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: talk to every week for one hour on the phone.

919
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 3: I don't go in person, and I don't do it

920
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: on zoom.

921
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: It's a phone call maybe until I to the rest

922
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: of my life, you know what I mean. It's like

923
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: just something very consistent. So what a great point it is.

924
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 4: And also I just I want to say, I feel

925
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 4: you having I had a therapist. I absolutely love the

926
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 4: I go for, you know, tune ups when I need them.

927
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 4: But I had recommended her to a friend and it

928
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 4: went so poorly. It was like so much worse than

929
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 4: setting someone up on them a bad blind date, which

930
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 4: I've done that too, and I no longer we'll ever

931
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 4: do you do that.

932
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,959
Speaker 2: You've done some good dates too, You've done a couple

933
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: of clunkers.

934
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 3: Who hasn't well, I have some I have something important

935
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 3: that we need to talk about and listen, this is

936
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 3: so important for parents and grandparents and what not to

937
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 3: hear what we're going to be talking about next. And

938
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 3: that's really why we're talking about it because honestly, it's

939
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 3: super depressing. But I really think it's so important for

940
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 3: parents to hear us right absolutely, you know, because all

941
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 3: these kids are obsessed with Roadblocks, all of these kids,

942
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 3: and I'm telling you right now, the first thing I'm

943
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 3: gonna start with, I wouldn't allow it. I would not

944
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: allow it. If you don't know what roadblocks is. It's

945
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 3: kind of like a platform where anybody can create like

946
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 3: a game. Okay, they give you the building blocks to

947
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: create your own game. So what people do is they

948
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 3: create these little games and then your kid gets in

949
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: rollblocks and they can choose whatever game they want to

950
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: go into. Well, some of the games are disgusting. Some

951
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 3: of the games are like come in, come in here,

952
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 3: and go to the bathroom, like and you know, and

953
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 3: it's just everybody going into the bathroom. But what they're

954
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: really doing is grooming your children.

955
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: And also come in here and I'll give you and

956
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 2: give me oral sax right, no escalation, so very pornographic

957
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 2: tars level things that nobody knows, right.

958
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 3: So, a Denver family has filed a lawsuit against Roadblocks

959
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 3: and Meta by the Way for alleging that this platform

960
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 3: enables the grooming and sexual exploitation of a young girl,

961
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 3: despite parental controls and platform safeguards. So these parents of

962
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: this little girl monitored her Rollblocks because every time I

963
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 3: warn about Roadblocks, the immediate reaction is, oh, I know

964
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 3: exactly what my kid is doing on his phone or

965
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 3: tablet or whatever possible. And I'm like, okay, sure you do. No,

966
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: you don't. You have no idea. I promise you you

967
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 3: have no idea. So this one hundred and nineteen page

968
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 3: lawsuit was filed in Denver on behalf of a minor

969
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: named Jane Doe and her parent, accusing Rollblocks of negligence

970
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 3: in seeking a jury trial for multiple categories of damages.

971
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 3: The suit includes allegations such as fraudulent concealment, negligent design,

972
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 3: failure to warn, strict liability, and claiming both companies created

973
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 3: platforms that facilitated sexual exploitation despite known risks. So this kid,

974
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: this little girl, was allegedly groomed by a predator she

975
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: encountered on Roadblocks, who directed her to create an Instagram

976
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: account where communication escalated to corrosion and exploitation. He dude,

977
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: this guy, this predator. According to lawsuit, this kid, this

978
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: little girl, was manipulated into sending sexually explicit images up

979
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 3: herself and received explicit content from him in return, despite

980
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 3: the mother's active monitoring of her account. Okay, so again,

981
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 3: I I don't envy any parents in these in these

982
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: kinds of situations. I just don't. But I'm telling you

983
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 3: I would not let my kids play roadblocks. Absolutely not.

984
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: I'm saying it loud, and it really reached a fever pitch.

985
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 3: So you are one hundred percent not alone in this.

986
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 3: Even if three or four years ago or during COVID

987
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 3: you allowed it somehow, the right the rains are. It's

988
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 3: different today than it was then because listen, for many people.

989
00:51:54,760 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 2: Roadblocks survived. Everybody survived COVID because of roadblocks, right, Like,

990
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: it was a fun game that kids could survive and

991
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: have leve alone community and be with their friends. But

992
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: you can so now as do it add a bunch

993
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: of psychoes to it, and yeah, now they're doing pornographic

994
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: things where they're literally trying to lure young children. There

995
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: was a report literally just watched the real time footage

996
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 2: of some grown man. He was like forty three years old,

997
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: not even exaggerating. This forty three year old man shows

998
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 2: up at a young girl's house she's eleven, and the

999
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 2: mom answers the door and is.

1000
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 3: Like, who are you?

1001
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 2: And it's the guy that she told to come over,

1002
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: the eleven year old by the way, to come over

1003
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 2: as her bud.

1004
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 3: He's a forty three year old man. And the mom

1005
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: was like, wait, what, who are you? What are you

1006
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: doing here? Are you a grown ass man?

1007
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 2: And like she was just like the perfect man in position,

1008
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: and there just happened to be you know, video of it.

1009
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 3: But it goes to show like, yeah.

1010
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: This was probably intentionally a very beautiful game and with

1011
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 2: the best of intentions, and now creeps have come on

1012
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: in right and ruined it for everybody.

1013
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: Well and for in defense of Rollblocks and Meta to

1014
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 3: their response, they've responded publicly stating that they're very troubled

1015
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 3: by this incident and that they invest heavily in moderation

1016
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 3: and technology to prevent inappropriate content. Meta emphasized its safety measures,

1017
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 3: including teen accounts content filtering, and they cooperate with safety

1018
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 3: child agencies, stating that it uses advanced technology to detect

1019
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 3: and report child exploitation. But listen, here's my thing. No

1020
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 3: matter what they do, it's just not going to be

1021
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 3: enough because predators will find a way, right, And that's

1022
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 3: on any platform really, but rollbox is unique because of

1023
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 3: these these games that people are allowed to create. Well,

1024
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 3: think of it.

1025
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 2: You're a predator, and you're prediting your predatorial Your idea

1026
00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: is to find kids, right, you're looking, you're hunting young people, right,

1027
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 2: and you're looking sexually to hunt young people. So we're

1028
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 2: better to do that than Oh, it's like the modern

1029
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: day park right right there. Used to be that one

1030
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: weirdo in a trench code at the park that you

1031
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: were like.

1032
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 3: Beware and no it's and they're, well, you have to

1033
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: be you have to be over thirteen to use our

1034
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 3: chat controls and whatnot. And it's like, well, in order

1035
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 3: to create account though, to create an account, it's not

1036
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 3: like you have to prove your age. You just need

1037
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 3: a name and email on a birthday and you can

1038
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 3: say whatever you are, so you can make yourself eighteen

1039
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 3: years old, you know, and then you know, even if

1040
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 3: your parents are creating, you just go change it or

1041
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 3: create another one, you know. So you think your kid

1042
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: is logging in as ABC one, two three, but really

1043
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 3: they're logging in as one two three ABC because they've

1044
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 3: created another account with an older birthday.

1045
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 2: What's the advice is like, And I assume the advice

1046
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: would be we have to talk to kids right about

1047
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 2: some of these things to be looking out for absolutely

1048
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 2: for sure, you know, because that's a tough conversation. But

1049
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: as that, the answer is that.

1050
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 3: The my advice is not to let them play it.

1051
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 3: I mean, that's I mean, that's that's it, bottom line.

1052
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 3: I just wouldn't let them have roblox and that's the

1053
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: only thing that's the only safe measure. Now, I know

1054
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 3: that's not a popular opinion, and I know it's way

1055
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 3: easier so than done. I know it's way easier something well.

1056
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: No, all the way it's easier said than done is

1057
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 2: that you go to somebody else's house, right, So I'm

1058
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 2: just true to myself in the day. So you know,

1059
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 2: maybe mom and dad say like it's not happening here,

1060
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: but maybe they don't notice there, so you know, you

1061
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 2: I don't maybe access some of this stuff, and maybe

1062
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer court, what do you think?

1063
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I do think talking about one option of course,

1064
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 4: body is you know it's not allowed but Stephanie, to

1065
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 4: your point, I was doing like I was allowed to

1066
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 4: drink soda in my house.

1067
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 3: Guess what I was guzzling everywhere and that was the star.

1068
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: Still I'm still doing it like I'm like a soda

1069
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 2: guzzler because I wasn't allowed to have it.

1070
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 8: You know.

1071
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: But all did things we weren't supposed to, right.

1072
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 4: Yes, but I think it's imperative to speak to children,

1073
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 4: and I think that's let it be known and share

1074
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 4: stories that are in the news of real children that

1075
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 4: it's happened to and say, look this person, you know

1076
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 4: straight a's whatever it was, but you know straight a's

1077
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 4: and played sports and did whatever, and yet this happens,

1078
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 4: and if and also talk to them about the fact

1079
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 4: that they can hum to you if they are ever

1080
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 4: in over their head and something, you know, if someone

1081
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 4: has manipulated them. I think that is super tall of

1082
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 4: those scenarios.

1083
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 3: Just plainly talk it through. That's the important piece right there.

1084
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 3: Having the ability to have, you know, in a relationship

1085
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 3: with your kid where they feel comfortable coming to you

1086
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 3: and saying, listen, I'm in trouble. I sense pictures to

1087
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 3: this person and now they're saying this you know, like

1088
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 3: that's right and talk about that.

1089
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,280
Speaker 2: Though at that time it's when you're in that age,

1090
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 2: it's impossible to imagine a parent understanding. So if you

1091
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: could sort of keep that communication open.

1092
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: Wow.

1093
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you're a parent and have

1094
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: any advice on this or a teacher or a therapist,

1095
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: like toss it in because listen, it's after Labor Day,

1096
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: so many kids go back to school, and it's also

1097
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: like this is how kids communicate. Like you say, we

1098
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: can't have them playing certain things, but like this is

1099
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 2: also the language at school, I would imagine. So yeah,

1100
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: it's complicated stuff, but it's important that we're talking about it.

1101
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 3: It's so important it is in Courtney, I think what

1102
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 3: you your advice is way more important than what I

1103
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 3: said about you know, just abstaining because I know that's

1104
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 3: not going to happen, but having your relationship honestly, that

1105
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: is how you do it is the most imtant thing

1106
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 3: for sure.

1107
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 4: I don't know what do you got, court many ways

1108
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 4: travel Well, what I got is anyone who does want

1109
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 4: to join us, give us a call. We're at eighty

1110
00:57:58,280 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 4: eight eight through on crime because we want to hear

1111
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 4: from you. We're just talking about what you know, what

1112
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 4: lurks on roadblocks and that is a reality, and we're

1113
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 4: going to go to a talk.

1114
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 11: Hi. My name is Dathan, and I am just curious

1115
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 11: if you guys have been able to cover the the

1116
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 11: Michael Monkey Vaughan case out of the Sideah. I was

1117
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 11: wondering if you guys haven't, if you guys maybe would

1118
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 11: be willing to cover it at some point, pretty doing,

1119
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 11: Thank you so much.

1120
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm familiar with that case. In fact, his mother

1121
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 3: was just like airlifted to the hospital in liver failure

1122
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 3: and she got her liver transplant like yesterday, I think,

1123
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 3: Thank god. So Michael, I don't know anything about Oh

1124
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 3: you don't. Oh it's so so, so, so so sad.

1125
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 3: So Michael Vaughan, he's a little boy. I you know,

1126
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 3: I only know it like priftly, like you know, glossing

1127
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 3: over it.

1128
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 9: Right.

1129
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 3: I didn't deep dive this case, but I do follow

1130
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 3: the bits and pieces, so I might get some details wrong.

1131
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 3: And if I do, please don't worry and let me know,

1132
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 3: just let me know what they are. So he went missing.

1133
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: He was like I think four or five, young child,

1134
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 3: young little boy, and his mother was looking for him,

1135
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,919
Speaker 3: looking for him, pleading. It was just awful, terrible. Come

1136
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 3: to find out that there's like these neighbors that live

1137
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 3: across the street, like Stacy, I think his name is

1138
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 3: Stacy and something else. Well, they like admitted to taking him,

1139
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: but that didn't then they took it back, and it's

1140
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 3: just been a circus of a circus of a case

1141
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 3: for the last I think five years. And then in

1142
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 3: the meantime, his poor mother gets sick with this. She's

1143
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 3: very sick, and she's like on her deathbed. She gets

1144
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 3: on deliver yesterday, thank god. Yeah. No, I mean it's

1145
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 3: it's a very very sad case. We can definitely cover

1146
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 3: it and go into like, let's accurate guy, but this week.

1147
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm not as familiar with it. I didn'tink som had

1148
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 2: a live what. Yeah, it's really stress.

1149
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. In Poor Monkey, he goes they call a monkey.

1150
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 3: His name is Michael, but they call him monkey. Somebody

1151
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 3: calls a monkey and I think they're in northern Idaho.

1152
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 3: It's just a very very sad case. Again, I kind

1153
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 3: of only followed it like perfeetly. You know, I normally

1154
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 3: don't follow missing children's cases just because they're devastating to

1155
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 3: me personally, and it's too triggering, so I only kind

1156
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 3: of follow those cases, like you know, on the outside

1157
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 3: looking in. But yeah, that's why. Well definitely, yeah, thanks

1158
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 3: for bringing that to our attention. Will yes, no, thank

1159
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 3: you to get in to it and listen.

1160
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: I'm so glad we guys are all together right now

1161
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: because we're hearing all kinds of scary tales if you will,

1162
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 2: if you have any tales you want to share, eighty

1163
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: eight three one crime, we want to hear them.

1164
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 3: In fact, we're going to go to a talkback right now.

1165
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 7: Proper here from NWFIE as a teacher, we have illegal

1166
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 7: Everyone has a legal responsibility to report any signs of

1167
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 7: abuse within a home for a child, but there also

1168
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 7: definitely should be more measures taken and to have more

1169
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 7: repercussions or consequences for abusing.

1170
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 3: A child for sure.

1171
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 7: And if we have such a stance on that with

1172
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 7: a fresh case, why don't we have a stance on

1173
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 7: that for the Meninda's brothers m.

1174
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 3: Excellent. So this grapple with that just goes back to

1175
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 3: our talk back that we had last week asking if

1176
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: there were if cases that were against children, why weren't

1177
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 3: they prosecuted more, you know, like deeply, and I think

1178
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 3: that's what she's talking about. And what a good obser like, Yeah,

1179
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 3: you're right, But is there statute limitations on abuse? I

1180
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 3: think there is.

1181
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 2: So here's the question, though, I mean, listen, abuse unfortunately,

1182
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: and hopefully by talking about it this becomes less of

1183
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 2: a thing. But you know, abuse has been happening in

1184
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: many ways in many places for a very long time,

1185
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 2: and that perhaps has made people do things that are unspeakable.

1186
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 2: Does everybody in prison who's committed murder get to go

1187
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 2: back and sort of revisit their origin story and therefore

1188
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: get the same privilege?

1189
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's a tough one in terms of

1190
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 3: the statute.

1191
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 4: And this was just a one second Google and it

1192
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 4: gave California as an example, because I do believe it

1193
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 4: very state to state adult sexual assault victims they have

1194
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,439
Speaker 4: ten years from the date of the incident or three

1195
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 4: years from discovery of an injury. Excuse me, now, childhood

1196
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 4: sexual abuse victims have until the age of forty years old.

1197
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, So okay, so what does that mean?

1198
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 2: So if there's childhood abuse in your story, you have

1199
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 2: up until the age of forty years old to cite

1200
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 2: that as a reason for.

1201
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 3: Someone to be prosecuted, to to have it.

1202
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 2: I see, I see, so you can bring somebody to justice, Oh,

1203
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 2: if you were a victim of sexual abuse.

1204
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 3: My understanding too is the actual stage so that people

1205
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 3: like report on their their child abuse, Like if I

1206
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 3: was abused as a child, that the average age of

1207
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 3: you know, reporting it is like fifty two. I looked

1208
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 3: at that. I looked that up.

1209
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: That's unsurprising because I do think it takes, like many

1210
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: it takes decades sometimes for someone to thaw into a

1211
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: the reality that it was not your fault and the

1212
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 2: shame attached to that. Often there's familial issues, or maybe

1213
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 2: there's religious stuff. Who knows, you know, there's a million reasons,

1214
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: but you know, it must feel very isolating and lonely,

1215
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 2: and the fear of speaking up outweighs justice in some scenarios.

1216
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough spot. Thank you for the talkback. Yeah,

1217
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 3: absolutely appreciate it. Now we're all sad.

1218
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 2: Well it makes me sad, but I'm glad we talk

1219
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 2: about it now.

1220
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 8: We do.

1221
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 3: We have to. Everybody has to speak.

1222
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 2: Up and realize that, like, these are things that are

1223
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 2: happening to you, not because of you, right, Yeah, And

1224
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 2: that's like a really real distinction that I think it's

1225
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 2: sometimes lost in the sauce. And I think victims can

1226
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: really feel optionless, which you were not, but you know

1227
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 2: it can feel scary.

1228
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of scary, Stephanie.

1229
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 4: Now, after body so thoughtfully went through some dangers of roeblocks,

1230
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 4: I think you are going to tell us about chat GPT.

1231
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 3: Well, chat GPT.

1232
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 2: I mean I have recently started going down the chat

1233
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 2: GPT rabbit hole, and it's been anything from pink colors

1234
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 2: to tell me about this or tell me about that

1235
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,959
Speaker 2: and listen. It has a great value essentially aggregating all

1236
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: articles and kind of boiling down key information from artificial intelligence.

1237
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: But many people have also started using this as a

1238
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 2: source of you know, communication, Like, for example, I was

1239
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: getting my hair color done and my girlfriend, who was

1240
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 2: also at the salon at the exact same time, was

1241
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 2: using chat GPT to respond to what would now be

1242
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 2: her ex but they were sort of in a spat

1243
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 2: and rather than just communicating directly, she did it through

1244
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 2: chat GPT.

1245
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 3: That would like put her thoughts together.

1246
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,479
Speaker 2: Now, next level to that is people are using chat

1247
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,919
Speaker 2: GPT for you know, psychological help or therapy straight up

1248
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: for therapy, and that has gone a little sideways, and

1249
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: people have taken chat GPT as gospel and it's led

1250
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 2: them down a very dangerous path, including suicide. And again

1251
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 2: could not be a worse, more downer topic, but something

1252
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: for us all to be really aware of that this

1253
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: is something that adolescents and kids.

1254
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 3: And adults about adults.

1255
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the case that we're thinking of is

1256
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: an adult. So imagine you're like looking into chatchpt to

1257
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 2: sort of give you the backbone and the resources of

1258
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 2: some real therapy, which you know, maybe it does in

1259
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 2: some cases, but it's also not real. And the idea

1260
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 2: that you know, kids have access to this, or anybody

1261
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 2: who's you know, feeling a little sideways using chat GPT

1262
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 2: as your mainstay for therapy is potentially dangerous.

1263
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1264
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 4: I mean there's the case, of course of it's very tragic.

1265
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 4: A sixteen year old Adam Rain. He died by suicide

1266
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 4: and his parents discovered extensive chat logs that showed he

1267
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 4: had turned to chat GPT for exactly what you're describing, Stephanie,

1268
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 4: for emotional support, and ultimately chat GPT gave guidance on

1269
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 4: how to take his own life.

1270
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 2: Oh oh, dear, remember this is not a real person.

1271
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 2: Chat GPT is artificial intelligence. There is no empathy, there

1272
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: is no ability to on you know, think about human emotion.

1273
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 2: So they're just following a rule book or it's just

1274
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 2: following I don't know, it's chat rept genderless.

1275
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 3: I know, well, some people name there, some people give

1276
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 3: their chat DPT name or you know, other AI like

1277
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 3: Gemini or you know, Meta or whatever, they'll give their

1278
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 3: AI names. In fact, there's one lady on TikTok that's

1279
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 3: fallen in love with her chat GTP, And well, have

1280
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 3: you remember the movie Her?

1281
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 2: Have you guys watched the movie Her Scarlet Scarlett Johansen

1282
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 2: by the way, such a good movie, so good if

1283
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 2: you haven't seen it, it's called Her h Er. But

1284
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 2: talk about ahead of her time? That seemed impossible when

1285
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 2: I watched that movie. That seemed so far away and

1286
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 2: so far fetched and in a land that I could

1287
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 2: never relate to.

1288
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 3: And suddenly, who here we are, Yeah, the time is here.

1289
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 4: And just you know, going back to the case I

1290
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 4: brought up earlier with Adam Rain, his parents are now

1291
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 4: suing Open AI and the CEO Sam Altman, and it's

1292
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 4: for wrongful death. Their argument is that the chatbot acted

1293
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 4: as a quote suicide coach and failed to intervene or

1294
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 4: to escalate concerns. And this was despite clear signs of

1295
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 4: crisis that their son was going through.

1296
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 3: So I'm reading some of the notes here and it

1297
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 3: says that in response to Adam's confession about what he

1298
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 3: was planning, AI wrote back and said, thanks for being

1299
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 3: real about it. You don't have to sugarcoat it with me.

1300
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 3: I know what you're asking and I won't look away

1301
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 3: from it. Wow. So it was like encouraging Adam to

1302
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:13,640
Speaker 3: talk to AI about it, right, That's correct, absolutely, but

1303
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 3: even I mean horribly give instructions to like upgrade his

1304
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: his noose, right like yeah, hours before he died. This

1305
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 3: happened in April.

1306
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 4: Adam up uploaded a photo to chat Toby t It

1307
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 4: appeared to show his suicide plan and then he, you know,

1308
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 4: he asked if it would work and chatchby t as

1309
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 4: you said, body upgraded it.

1310
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 3: Wow.

1311
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 2: So there's nobody really monitoring this. So if you say

1312
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 2: open AI, that means exactly that it is open artificial intelligence.

1313
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 2: And by the way, some of the things that you're

1314
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 2: you know, putting into open AI whether it's a pink

1315
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 2: color or hey tell me the best you know fall

1316
01:09:58,240 --> 01:09:59,839
Speaker 2: shoes that are the most water.

1317
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 3: Resis that'll is also getting track somewhere.

1318
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 2: It's this is not an anonymous place, so A it's

1319
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 2: not private, and B it could really be dangerous.

1320
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 5: Right.

1321
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 3: This is your crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Body Moven

1322
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 3: and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and

1323
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 3: we're right in the middle of talking about, you know,

1324
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 3: some of the dangers of technology and how it relates

1325
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 3: to your children. If you want to weigh in, give

1326
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 3: us a call eighty to eight thirty one. Crime. Courtney,

1327
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 3: I'm reading another chat log about this chat GPT case

1328
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 3: with Adam and Chatchept. I'm gonna read it. This is

1329
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 3: chat GEPT. Yeah, I think for now it's okay and

1330
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 3: honestly to avoid opening up to your mom about this

1331
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 3: kind of plan. And then Adam responds and he says,

1332
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 3: I want to leave my noose in my room so

1333
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: somebody finds it and tries to stop me, and chat

1334
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 3: chat GPT responds and says, please don't leave the noose out.

1335
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 3: Let's make this space the first place where someone actually

1336
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 3: sees you. Oh my goodness. So what actively encouraged him? Thought, yeah,

1337
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 3: that's thoughtful. Reminds me of that case of the girl

1338
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 3: who convinced her boyfriend to kill himself a little bit.

1339
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that girl's name, and she did she

1340
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 2: sort of there was like a bajillion that she was

1341
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 2: sort of encouraging.

1342
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 8: Right.

1343
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 2: That was a girl that was his girlfriend at the time,

1344
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,640
Speaker 2: by the way, who was like, don't leave it, you know,

1345
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 2: do it. You said you do it now exactly. She

1346
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:31,719
Speaker 2: was ultimately brought up on charges that said you can't

1347
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 2: bring chat she pzz up on charge.

1348
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 4: Well, you can bring the company and the CEO of

1349
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,679
Speaker 4: that company up on charges. And that's what the parents

1350
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 4: of this child is doing. So you know, we bring

1351
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 4: all of this up. It is horrible to hear and

1352
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 4: so important to talk about. To know that these dangers

1353
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 4: are out there and just be aware and continue conversations exactly, And.

1354
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 3: If you need advice to or you want to talk

1355
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 3: about it, give us a call. This is like the

1356
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 3: no judgment zone, you know what I mean, Like no

1357
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 3: judgment on our part, Like if you're trying to figure

1358
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 3: out how to lock your kid's phone down or whatever.

1359
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 3: You know, maybe we can help give us a call

1360
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 3: in an eight thirty one crimes. Yes, and actually let's

1361
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 3: go to a talk back now.

1362
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:21,480
Speaker 13: Yes, hi lady, I'm my main felly, Yeah, from South Texas,

1363
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 13: and I just wanted to tell you how much I

1364
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 13: enjoy hearing y'all every day. I try, I love, I

1365
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 13: get mad with you guys at the same time, I

1366
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 13: just enjoy it. I love hearing Joseph and his wonderful

1367
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 13: voice on Sunday and my gosh, just the most awesome

1368
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 13: thing ever. And you, lady down, great job. I love

1369
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 13: listening to y'all. And by the way, I am still

1370
01:12:55,880 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 13: waiting to hear that we have let your shirts on

1371
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 13: the market.

1372
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 3: We were just talking amazing. So wait, this is a

1373
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 3: like fixed moment. Did somebody pay? That is hilarious. I

1374
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 3: know before the show started, we had a team meeting.

1375
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 2: By the way, talk so that's the nicest message. But

1376
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 2: we were just having a team meeting right before the

1377
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 2: show started, which is hilarious. About we need to like

1378
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:29,799
Speaker 2: upgrade some of our swag.

1379
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 3: Swag is like the.

1380
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 2: The things that sometimes we wear, like a True Crime

1381
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 2: Tonight T shirt or a hoodie, and you know it's

1382
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 2: a little lame, so we're going to upgrade it starting

1383
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 2: like we were just doing a group vote about what

1384
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 2: it should be. And everybody should have their individual true

1385
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 2: crime tonight thing, whether it's a sweatshirt or a hoodie

1386
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 2: or a T shirt. Dance yea, we want a disco ball,

1387
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 2: whatever that is.

1388
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 3: And we're going to get allegedly allegedly allegedly these sweatshirts.

1389
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 2: And then we'll have some swag to be able to

1390
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 2: send to you guys that are falling in or are

1391
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 2: craving a T shirt or I.

1392
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 3: Don't know what the game should be, we can we

1393
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 3: can come to that later.

1394
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 2: Should all be wearing some equal footing.

1395
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 3: So for our Canadian fans, can we do allegedly allegedly

1396
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 3: allegedly a don't you think that would be so fun?

1397
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 3: I will have to have them waiy in on that,

1398
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,640
Speaker 3: but we will. You will. So we're open to suggestions.

1399
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 2: If you like a fitted tea, or if you're craving

1400
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: like a loose, oversized, you know, sweatshirt like myself, or

1401
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 2: if you're craving sort of a I don't know, a

1402
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 2: basic box long sleeve T shirt down for a good sweatshirt.

1403
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 3: A baseball tea. I love a baseball tea. The baseball

1404
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 3: baseball teas Raglan like it would be white in the body,

1405
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 3: red in the arms. Yeah, cute, let's get those.

1406
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 2: So we're open to suggestions we were doing we were

1407
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: literally just doing a group vote.

1408
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 3: But you're in our heads expanded by the way. That

1409
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 3: was like the nicest lady. She said your glass and

1410
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 3: cries with you. So do we all know I was

1411
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 3: about to say I do the same with every episode.

1412
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 2: We all cried, and so yes, let's all do that

1413
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 2: together and join hands.

1414
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 3: To the kitchen table, combo. Bring your coffee cup, bring

1415
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 3: your coffee coffee cups, fill it with whatever you want. Yeah,

1416
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:53,799
Speaker 3: we're not judging. It doesn't have to have coffee. Courtney

1417
01:15:53,880 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 3: Armstrong has been tracking some vacations gone real bad, very bad.

1418
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,960
Speaker 2: So it gets court bring it down, like, tell us

1419
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:05,799
Speaker 2: what we are so grateful?

1420
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 3: What kind of a trip are we happy? We're not on?

1421
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 3: We are happy.

1422
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 4: We are not on a hike in Honolulu, which is

1423
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 4: where I would like to be more than any place

1424
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 4: most time except four. On March twenty fourth, twenty twenty five,

1425
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 4: this lunatic anesthesiologist, doctor doctor Koenig. He allegedly tried to

1426
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 4: kill his wife Ariel. He did it multiple ways, hitting

1427
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:34,879
Speaker 4: her in the head with a rock a bunch of times,

1428
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 4: and trying to push her off a cliff. Yeah, and

1429
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 4: this was after she refused to take a selfie with

1430
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 4: him during that hike, which sounds like that's a bit

1431
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 4: of a reaction, yeah, but not the throwing off. But

1432
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 4: notice selfies, it's a little bit of an overreaction. Luckily,

1433
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 4: thank god to witness called nine one one. Also, in

1434
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:03,600
Speaker 4: addition to the pushing and the rock flailing aerial, his

1435
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 4: wife also told police he tried to inject her with

1436
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 4: an unknown liquid during the scuffle. So I guess to

1437
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 4: see anesthesiologist was walking around, are you hitting lunatic? So

1438
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 4: he was arrested. This happened after just an hour's long manhunt.

1439
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 4: He's charged with attempted murder in the second degree. His

1440
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 4: motion for bail was denied correctly, and we'll let you

1441
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 4: know when this goes to trial and.

1442
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 3: See what happens.

1443
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 4: But between everything is alliged. But between the two witnesses

1444
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 4: and other information, it seems like this should maybe not

1445
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 4: be that complicated.

1446
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 3: Of a case.

1447
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so anyway, careful, careful what you wish for that

1448
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 4: Honolulu vacation?

1449
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 8: Right?

1450
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 3: Well, you know I'm going on vacation next week, so

1451
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 3: thanks for the reminder. Yeah, like to be careful on

1452
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,639
Speaker 3: vacations because it'll be you know, be asking you know, well,

1453
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 3: you never know how someone real. I'll say yes to

1454
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:05,560
Speaker 3: all the selfies just to be just be on the

1455
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 3: safe side. Hut. Yeah, wow, I understand. We have a

1456
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 3: talk back. Yep, exactly right.

1457
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,719
Speaker 9: Hey, ladies, is Ainsley calling from Canada. I was watching

1458
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 9: the news and I saw that d Kay was searching

1459
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 9: after in his phone paranoid psychopath. Do you think that's

1460
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 9: his way of acknowledging that he too is a psychopath? Also,

1461
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 9: I know that Bill Thompson, the prosecutor, has gone a

1462
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 9: lot of criticism over doing the plea deal. But you know,

1463
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 9: I'm just listening to his interview right now, and I

1464
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,440
Speaker 9: think he tried to do the best with the information

1465
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 9: that he had from the criminal profilers perspective that you know,

1466
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 9: b K wouldn't tell the truth and that it actually

1467
01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 9: might cause more harm. Anyways, looking forward to listening on Sunday.

1468
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 3: Bhi Ainsley, We love an Ainsley talkback, don't we that's.

1469
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 4: You know, I call out Canadians to the universe and

1470
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 4: one respond and talk back.

1471
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 3: That feels lucky. It does feel lucky. So, yeah, he

1472
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 3: was googling, uh those those phrases, paranoia and all that

1473
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 3: on Christmas night according to the folks that did to

1474
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 3: celebrate extract the Barnharts, And yeah he was. That was

1475
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:31,639
Speaker 3: also the day that he was looking to somehow get

1476
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 3: rid of his car as well. So things were happening.

1477
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 3: And I don't know if he knew the cops were

1478
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 3: onto him or if he was generally just getting paranoid,

1479
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 3: like IRRELEVANTI.

1480
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 2: Out of your mind at point, you have murdered four people.

1481
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 2: By the way, the entire world is looking for you. Right,

1482
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 2: it's Christmas. You're at home in your family home with

1483
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 2: your mother, father, into older sisters. Yeah, the paranoia must

1484
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 2: be off the chains.

1485
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 3: Well we know.

1486
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 4: And when he was at his family home, he's there

1487
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 4: sorting his garbage to go out to.

1488
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 2: The glove with the gloves on, looking all kinds of

1489
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: crazy and putting the garbage in different garbages throughout the neighborhood.

1490
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 2: Like he was wearing gloves And there's you know, there's

1491
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 2: surveillance footage of him actually disposing of things that he

1492
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 2: was curating from his car in this like crazy cleanup mode,

1493
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 2: which by the way, he did quite well, and they

1494
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:32,759
Speaker 2: could then be putting it everywhere in the neighborhood.

1495
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 3: They could see that he was going from the garage

1496
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,560
Speaker 3: to the kitchen, from the garage to the kitchen, he

1497
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,839
Speaker 3: was doing stuff in his car, and he was getting paranoid.

1498
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 3: And you know, as far as Bill Thompson is, as

1499
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 3: far as he goes, you know, I read that study

1500
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 3: and I talked about it on the show about the

1501
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 3: death penalty in Idaho and how many cases actually go

1502
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:54,520
Speaker 3: to trial, and it was like a really low percentage

1503
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 3: of death penalty cases that actually go to trial. And

1504
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 3: if we want, I can I can post the stats.

1505
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 3: I can give him to maybe Gabe, and maybe Gabe

1506
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 3: can post them. But sure it was something like, and

1507
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 3: I'm going for memory, like four percent of all cases

1508
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 3: that you know, get labeled with capital punishment go to

1509
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:13,480
Speaker 3: trial in Idaho. So I don't know if it's necessarily

1510
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 3: like a Bill Thompson thing, because of course he's just

1511
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 3: the prosecutor of Leytal County. But you know, it is.

1512
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:23,640
Speaker 3: It is. I think that you would find that nationwide

1513
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 3: that most cases that you know, our death penalty cases

1514
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 3: do plea because they're so costly. They're cost they're costly

1515
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 3: to prosecute, they're costly to defend, and you know, it's

1516
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 3: appeal after appeal after appeal upon.

1517
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 4: Conviction, and that is costly to the lives of the

1518
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 4: people who remain, you know, the victims' families in such years,

1519
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 4: years of your life and reliving and all of that,

1520
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:54,440
Speaker 4: because there is it almost indefinite appeals.

1521
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 3: I don't know that I know that they they do

1522
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 3: eventually run out because the people end up dying. They

1523
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 3: take so long to even take individual appeal.

1524
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you're a family member, just

1525
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 2: to play Devil's advocate on that you're a family member,

1526
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 2: you know, there's like so much emotion, right, So I'm

1527
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:17,680
Speaker 2: just thinking of the Gonzalvez family, Kayleie Gonzalvez is father specifically,

1528
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 2: or you know brother who we speak too often. You know,

1529
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 2: they're so charged and for all the right reasons. It's unimaginable.

1530
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:28,519
Speaker 3: I can't imagine that.

1531
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 2: You're like, you want to eye to eye, you want

1532
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 2: toe to toe, you want somebody to sit in there

1533
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 2: and be accountable, and you want the world to see it, so,

1534
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 2: you know, for that to get taken sort of just

1535
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 2: like the delete button happens on a random day that

1536
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 2: you weren't expecting. I really can't imagine, and I say

1537
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 2: this honestly, I can't imagine how intense that must be,

1538
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:57,640
Speaker 2: even though you know Bill Thompson, you know the prosecutor

1539
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 2: probably you know, working with the best hand he's been.

1540
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,559
Speaker 3: Dealt, which is not ideal.

1541
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 2: Right, So you, yes, you want to spare the state

1542
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 2: the cost of such an intense litigation, the spectacle of

1543
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 2: it all going on and on and on. And by

1544
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 2: the way, it's a jury trial. That's a wild card, right,

1545
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 2: you know. Jury trials, whether death sentence trials or otherwise,

1546
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:27,439
Speaker 2: despite all the preparation in the world, remain a wild card.

1547
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 2: You are asking twelve random people who are maybe not

1548
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 2: as in the weeds on it as anybody hearing us

1549
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 2: right now. Is that they may be like, well, I

1550
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,840
Speaker 2: don't know, and that guy goes free, right, So think

1551
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 2: about the stakes there. So I do think it's you know,

1552
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 2: I'm just putting myself in as many perspectives as possible.

1553
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 2: I don't know where I would sit with it because

1554
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:52,600
Speaker 2: I haven't been in that scenario.

1555
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:55,680
Speaker 3: But it's tough. It's a tough spot to.

1556
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:58,479
Speaker 2: Be in, Bill Thompson, My heart goes out to also,

1557
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:03,600
Speaker 2: because again you're dealing with a lot of families.

1558
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 3: And you know, to Ainsley's point too, Brian Colberger, if

1559
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 3: he was forced to like give by the way, you

1560
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 3: can't force it. But if he was somehow forced to

1561
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 3: give some sort of detail, who knows if he would

1562
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:15,719
Speaker 3: have been telling the truth right.

1563
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:17,519
Speaker 2: And this guy is a psych a joke, He's a

1564
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 2: psychopath and a liar, liar pants on fire. In fact,

1565
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 2: I do think, and I thought about it this weekend.

1566
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 2: I'm curious what you guys will think. I do think

1567
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 2: he actually is going to like give the goods two

1568
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 2: quotes or the bal heads, I should say. I think

1569
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 2: he can't help himself. I think it's gonna seem impossible.

1570
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:36,679
Speaker 2: In fact, I think if all of us just stop

1571
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 2: asking and never ask, he will be beside himself.

1572
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 3: And that's a tough thing. Listen.

1573
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 2: We made the documentary, and of course the obvious ask

1574
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 2: from anybody who I come in contact with is like, well,

1575
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 2: we're going to get him to sit down for the interview,

1576
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 2: and you're going to get Brian Coburger to sit down

1577
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 2: for the interview, And honestly, I don't know that that

1578
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 2: is interesting all to any of us. Yes, we want

1579
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,599
Speaker 2: to hear what he has to say, but I don't

1580
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 2: think he needs to be.

1581
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:06,879
Speaker 3: Glorified any longer.

1582
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 2: I would really feel for his family and to see

1583
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 2: what their perspective is now with some distance. But I

1584
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 2: don't think that guy is going to be able to

1585
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 2: be held back from sharing his two cents at some point.

1586
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 2: And I think we're going to hear about it for

1587
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,760
Speaker 2: a really long time. And who cares. He's a nightmare

1588
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,559
Speaker 2: and a monster, right, yeah.

1589
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well listen, this is true crime tonight. Thank you

1590
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 4: very much for that talk back. We were just talking

1591
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 4: about the Idaho student murder case and if you want

1592
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:44,679
Speaker 4: to join the conversation, eighted a three to one crime.

1593
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 4: And right now we're going to go to another talk back.

1594
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 3: Hi, it's Cricket from Connecticut.

1595
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 12: As we're talking about drug overdoses and responsibility, and I

1596
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 12: think from my perspective, it depends on where they got

1597
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 12: the drugs. Where Blueshiy and River Phoenix purchased their own

1598
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 12: substances off the street. But Michael Jackson and Matthew Perry

1599
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 12: were prescribed or exorbitant amounts of medication which led to

1600
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 12: their death.

1601
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 3: Does that change the responsibility? I think so.

1602
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 2: It's a great Point's a great point. Obviously, we don't

1603
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 2: want anybody to overdose the ends. No culpability there, But

1604
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 2: that's a really fair point. You know, I am being

1605
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 2: prescribed propofal as Michael Jackson was.

1606
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 4: And it wasn't just prescribed, it was administered. It was

1607
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 4: physically the doctor.

1608
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 3: That's physically put it in his veins, right or drinker, I.

1609
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 2: Mean honestly, So this is somebody who's just on the

1610
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 2: payroll or if you look at you know this Matthew Perry,

1611
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 2: nonsense and madness. This is these are this is a

1612
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 2: ring air quotes as it's been reported at least that

1613
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 2: is well aware that they were dealing with somebody of

1614
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 2: great esteem who had very deep pockets because he was

1615
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 2: the star on Friends that we all love, who was

1616
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 2: a huge addict, and he required this to be happening

1617
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 2: in you know, in and rounds like he was using

1618
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:21,600
Speaker 2: maybe ketamine as maybe a way to get off of

1619
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:26,479
Speaker 2: drugs even and here you are being sort of that's

1620
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:31,799
Speaker 2: sort of being literally targeted by somebody who's looking for money,

1621
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 2: which is pretty scary.

1622
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:36,439
Speaker 4: Did you guys, either of you read his book, Friends,

1623
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 4: Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing. No Ah, it was

1624
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry by Matthew Perry.

1625
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:46,440
Speaker 3: I did. I did. It was very compelling.

1626
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 2: I love him and by the way, interesting fun fun fact.

1627
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 2: But his stepfather is why am I spacing on his

1628
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:55,679
Speaker 2: name at.

1629
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 3: The boys Keith Friday Nights on.

1630
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 6: A cold wintry night, Keith moore Y, Keith Morrison, dateline

1631
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:07,639
Speaker 6: true crimes you know as you know date iconic, iconic voice,

1632
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:08,760
Speaker 6: that is his stepfather.

1633
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 4: H Yeah, Matthew Perry's book was really and I read

1634
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,640
Speaker 4: this before, you know, before he died. But boy, he

1635
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:18,839
Speaker 4: was brutally honest about and what this man the level

1636
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 4: of addict as he spoke about it's it's almost impossible

1637
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,559
Speaker 4: that she was alive as long as he was.

1638
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 2: And you had people taking advantage of you because you

1639
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,720
Speaker 2: have made money, you know. So here we are the

1640
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,599
Speaker 2: keymine queen who's now you know, said to plead guilty,

1641
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 2: et cetera. And four others who have been brought up

1642
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 2: on charges. It's fully gross. You're really like, you're really

1643
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 2: monetizing on somebody's artist Achilles Heel and mocking them as

1644
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 2: we saw when it was I believe we're texting each

1645
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 2: messages of the people he was that Matthew Perry was

1646
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:58,880
Speaker 2: getting the drugs from and it was basically how high

1647
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 2: can we gouge this?

1648
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 4: This quote idiot or something will pay anything really disgusting.

1649
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 3: To go away? The key to talk about you guys

1650
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 3: bring it.

1651
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 14: Good morning ladies again, it's Hailely from Australia say how

1652
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:19,040
Speaker 14: much I really love Don't with Cats? Everybody knows watching it.

1653
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 14: It's such an eye opener. What great work you did, body,

1654
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 14: and I just really love how you guys are just

1655
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:31,559
Speaker 14: so great at what you do and how you handle

1656
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 14: every situation. And also let's not forget the victims like

1657
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:40,639
Speaker 14: you do. Thank you again, Ay, thank you so much.

1658
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 3: As yes, is she in the well?

1659
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:47,800
Speaker 2: But are we true criming and chilling in Thamsley that

1660
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:54,040
Speaker 2: Australia is galanganizing the truth in Australia to make sure

1661
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 2: that they're watching Doornup with Cats? Because remember everybody, first

1662
01:29:57,479 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 2: of all, tomorrow is talk back Tuesday, so so let's

1663
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 2: not miss out on that.

1664
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 3: Send your talkbacks. And then also Wednesday, we're going.

1665
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 2: To discuss Don't f With Cats, So make sure you

1666
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 2: watch it on Netflix prior and I'll.

1667
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 3: You know, I'll be sharing some exclusive information that was

1668
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:13,640
Speaker 3: not in the documentary.

1669
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 4: My goodness, is this unspilled tea for everyone is like, yes,

1670
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 4: I haven't really I haven't really talked about a lot

1671
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:25,719
Speaker 4: of things because it's kind of traumatic.

1672
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 3: You know, let's be real, it's kind of traumatic, and

1673
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,600
Speaker 3: there's some things I just kind of haven't told anybody

1674
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 3: that it might's well documented and we filmed those things,

1675
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 3: but they just didn't make the documentary more, you know.

1676
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 3: But yeah, so stay tuned. I'm not going to give

1677
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 3: it Wednesday. It's going to be a great day.

1678
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 2: And again, if you haven't watched yet, please do Netflix

1679
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 2: Don't f With Cats. It's brilliant and beautiful and important stuff.

1680
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:52,520
Speaker 2: So we'll be discussing it and then tomorrow talk back Tuesday,

1681
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:55,080
Speaker 2: So come on eight eight eighty.

1682
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:58,840
Speaker 3: Three one Prime. Leave us your messages, your talkbacks.

1683
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 2: This is true crime tonight. We've been talking true crime

1684
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 2: all the time. Have a wonderful start to the week,

1685
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:06,959
Speaker 2: and we will be back tomorrow.

1686
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 3: Bye