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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do

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Speaker 2: we have, Crystal, Indeed we do.

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Speaker 4: We are very excited about the show today because we're.

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Speaker 1: Going to have a big old election twenty twenty four panel.

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Speaker 1: They're going to tackle who's Animal's back, Who's up, Who's

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Speaker 1: down there with some leaked JD vance audio revealing perhaps

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Speaker 1: some electoral anxiety on that side. We're also going to

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Speaker 1: get into the big Cat Lady debate finally much anticipated.

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Speaker 1: We're also going to have them tackle this whole Karen's

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Speaker 1: for Kamala and white.

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Speaker 4: Dudes for Kamala situation.

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Speaker 1: So looking forward to hearing what they have to say

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Speaker 1: about that. Also yesterday, Joe Biden announcing a push for

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Speaker 1: major Supreme Court reform or Kamala Harris joining that. So

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Speaker 1: we'll break that down for you what it means, whether

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Speaker 1: or not it is going anywhere.

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Speaker 4: War revelations.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I say this literally every day about

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Speaker 1: secret Service failures on the day of the Trump assassination attempt.

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Speaker 1: Now we have the text messages that cops in secret

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Speaker 1: Service we're sending to themselves, complete with pictures of the shooter,

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half before this all unfolds.

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Speaker 4: I mean, really is.

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Speaker 1: Wild what we're learning at this point and how this

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Speaker 1: twenty year old was able to completely ouncemart and stay

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Speaker 1: ahead of all the cops and all the law enforcement

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Speaker 1: that was there on the ground. We're also taking a

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Speaker 1: look at some wild scenes coming out of Israel. This

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Speaker 1: is going to sound like an exaggeration. It literally is

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Speaker 1: not a mob stormed multiple Israeli military bases in defense

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Speaker 1: of the right of Israeli soldiers to rape Palestinians.

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Speaker 4: I'm not kidding you. That's what happened.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like you take Abu Gray prison scandal,

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Speaker 1: you take January sixth, you put it all together in

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Speaker 1: terms of American political context. So we're actually going to

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Speaker 1: talk to an Israeli journalists about his thoughts as he

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Speaker 1: was watching all of this unfold, and it's actually really

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Speaker 1: shaken some of his own conceptions about his state, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting his viewpoint, he is sort of like a

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Speaker 1: liberal Zionist, so really looking forward to speaking to him

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Speaker 1: about what this means for the state of Israel, and

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Speaker 1: of course very consequential in terms of our support of

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Speaker 1: that state. And they're continuing atrocities in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't believe it at first, but it's actually

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Speaker 2: all true. And the way you know it's true is

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Speaker 2: that even like the liberal Israelis, they're like, hey man,

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Speaker 2: this is totally out of control.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, super interesting.

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Speaker 2: Before we get to that, as we teased yesterday, we

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Speaker 2: do a big announcement. Now let's put this up there

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Speaker 2: It has been an extraordinary month over here at Breaking Points,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to give you exclusive insights, benefits, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: especially as we head into the convention. I'm really exciting, yeah,

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Speaker 2: for us all to be on the ground there. We

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Speaker 2: have some great stuff planned and they'll be.

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Speaker 4: The very interesting. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of you all have joined us just

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Speaker 1: in the past month because the politics, news world, everything

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Speaker 1: we have some we have some things coming up that

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Speaker 1: I think you're going to find really interesting, including something

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Speaker 1: we should be dropping later this week, so stay tuned

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Speaker 1: for that. I won't give you all the specifics, but

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of exciting things planned for this

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Speaker 1: election season, which has suddenly become red hot.

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Speaker 4: It's crazy, you know.

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Speaker 1: We thought we were going into this election of like,

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Speaker 1: no one's really going to care about this matchup between

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Speaker 1: these two dudes that they're sick of, and now suddenly,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever seen interest in the

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Speaker 1: political horse race as high as it is right now.

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Speaker 5: So high.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So thank you to all of you've been tuning

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Speaker 4: Our premium subscribers. We really appreciate your support.

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Speaker 3: That's right, all right, let's get to the panel.

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Speaker 1: We are joined by an A plus panel this morning.

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Speaker 1: This is sort of like our inaugural twenty twenty four

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Speaker 1: political panel, so you guys should both feel extremely honored.

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Speaker 1: On the right, we have Ryan ger Dusky, political commentator

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Speaker 1: and the author of the National Populist newsletter on Substack,

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Speaker 1: which I'm told Sager highly recommends I do. And on

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Speaker 1: the left, we have Michael Starr Hopkins, who is a

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Speaker 1: fantastic political commentator and host of It Matters.

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Speaker 4: Great to see a gentlemen to.

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Speaker 6: You guys, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So we got a few different topics we want to

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Speaker 1: tackle with you, but I wanted to start by just

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Speaker 1: sort of getting your general sense of where.

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Speaker 4: The race is today.

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Speaker 1: And to kick that off, we just got some leaked

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Speaker 1: audio from jd Vance on like a fundraising call where

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Speaker 1: he's talking about Kamala Harris being switched in for Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden and what he describes as a political sucker punch.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that, all of us.

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Speaker 7: We're hitting with a little bit of a political suffer punch.

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Speaker 7: The badges is that Kamala Harris does not have the

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Speaker 7: same baggage as Joe Biden, because whatever we might say,

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Speaker 7: Kala Harris.

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Speaker 8: Is a lot younger and Kamala Harris is obviously not

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Speaker 8: struggling in the same way as that Joe Biden did.

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Speaker 1: So Ryan, let me just start with you react to

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Speaker 1: those comments and who do you see as the favorite

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Speaker 1: in this race at this point?

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Speaker 9: Well, I mean what he said was true because Joe

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Speaker 9: Biden was having serious issues, serious cognitive issues, and Democrat

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Speaker 9: internal polling showed them in a statistically tied race in

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Speaker 9: New Jersey. And when you are behind in New Jersey,

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Speaker 9: and you're losing Virginia, and you're losing New Mexico in

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Speaker 9: your own internal polling. That's a really bad state for Democrats.

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Speaker 9: So Kamala Harris changes the race in the sense that

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Speaker 9: New Jersey is no longer a toss up state with

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Speaker 9: her as a nominee.

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Speaker 10: That being said, Trump still leads in the.

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Speaker 9: Head to head national polls by about a point, maybe

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Speaker 9: a little over underpending what polls you're looking at.

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Speaker 10: Which he's never let before.

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Speaker 9: He's still in a better race state than he was

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Speaker 9: in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. He still leads an

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Speaker 9: all three major russ Belt state's party. Republican voter party

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Speaker 9: registration is significantly up in all swing counties. So at

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Speaker 9: the end of the day, I mean, Trump probably still

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Speaker 9: has about a sixty percent chance of being the president

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Speaker 9: in January twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 4: Michael, what do you think?

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Speaker 5: I mean?

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Speaker 6: Look, Donald Trump got shot and then had the Democrat

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Speaker 6: or rather the Republican convention and really saw no bump

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Speaker 6: coming out of it.

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Speaker 8: So if I'm the Trump campaign, I'm worried.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they're in the lead right now, but Kama Harris

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Speaker 6: still hasn't had the convention, she hasn't named her VP nominee.

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Speaker 6: You're seeing this huge enthusiasm boost among young people, among women,

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Speaker 6: among African Americans. I think it's really problematic for the

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Speaker 6: Trump campaign because they've been running the same playbook against

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Speaker 6: Joe Biden for the last you know, almost six years. Well,

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Speaker 6: now they're running a very different race, and the things

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Speaker 6: that I think they want to attack her on are

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Speaker 6: really going to ignite that base of support among women

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Speaker 6: and African Americans.

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Speaker 3: All Right, so let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with what is an A two Please, just

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Speaker 2: kind of a general summary from Frank Lunch, and I

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Speaker 2: want to get Ryan's reaction here to how some of

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Speaker 2: the state of the race has changed. Just as Kamala

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Speaker 2: Harris is rebuilding a more traditional Democratic coalition more paths

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Speaker 2: to two seventy, Trump is more popular at any time

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Speaker 2: than the past four years. As Ryan noted, Biden's retirement

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Speaker 2: is wildly popular, and RFK Junior is significantly free falling

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Speaker 2: in respect to disaffected Democrats are mostly going to Kama,

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Speaker 2: while disaffected Republicans remain with RFK. So far, strategically, what

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Speaker 2: do you think that the Trump campaign has to do

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Speaker 2: differently now that Kamala is in the race and perhaps

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Speaker 2: either adjust messaging, address strategy.

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Speaker 3: Where do you see their campaign right now?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, well that's the first time I was like, oh, Franklins,

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Speaker 9: let's hear all these mistakes.

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Speaker 8: Is about to say.

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Speaker 4: We take someone you both would dislike.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: So, I think what the Trump campaign more or less

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Speaker 9: was doing to Joe Biden was running a very scale

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Speaker 9: back effort. I mean they were letting Joe Biden hang

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Speaker 9: himself in the win, and every time he spoke, it

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Speaker 9: was a negative reaction for Joe Biden. When Kamala Harris,

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Speaker 9: they have to be a little more aggressive because twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 9: when she ran for president, she took wildly in popular

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Speaker 9: positions that many people don't remember. So reminding people of

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Speaker 9: the positions that she took now that she's running away

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Speaker 9: from as fast as she possibly can. You know, every

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Speaker 9: position from medicare for all to gun buy backs. I'm

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Speaker 9: sure she's going to be against banning all plastic straws

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Speaker 9: she said.

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Speaker 10: In twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 9: I think that I think that that's really where they

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Speaker 9: have to sit there and switch. And I think it

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Speaker 9: took them a second and the second longer than it

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Speaker 9: should have for them to really pivot into a different

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Speaker 9: kind of campaign, one much more aggressive than the other.

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Speaker 9: But they are outspending comm will pretty significantly in almost

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Speaker 9: every Spring state now.

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Speaker 1: So Michael, in addition to like they'll get to cat

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Speaker 1: Lady and some of that stuff in a minute and

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Speaker 1: DEI and all of that. But the core argument that's

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Speaker 1: being made by the official campaign apparatus and the Speaker

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Speaker 1: Johnson's of the world is the one effectively that Ryan

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Speaker 1: is making that you know, Kamala Harris had these quote

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Speaker 1: unquote extreme positions in when she was running in the

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Speaker 1: Democratic presidential primary. She's already come out and like said,

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Speaker 1: I no longer believe any of those things anymore. I'm

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Speaker 1: a totally different person to me. That's more of the

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Speaker 1: true knock on her is that she doesn't actually have.

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Speaker 4: Any ideological grounding.

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Speaker 1: She shifts depending on what's convenient for her in that

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Speaker 1: particular political moment at that particular time. But if you're

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Speaker 1: advising the Democratic Party, you know, how do you defend

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Speaker 1: against that attack either that she's a flip flopper or

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Speaker 1: that she's too radical extreme liberal coastal, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I mean, look, Kamala Harris has been called a lot

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Speaker 6: of things, but at her course, she's been a prosecutor,

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Speaker 6: she's been an attorney general.

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Speaker 8: So the idea that.

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Speaker 6: She's too liberal, I think is probably not something that's

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Speaker 6: going to stick.

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Speaker 8: And look, when Republicans are running.

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Speaker 6: That Democrats are against plastic straws, and Democrats are running

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Speaker 6: that Republicans are against abortion, I think that's going to

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Speaker 6: be a really problematic message because every hit that Republicans

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Speaker 6: are going to try to take on Kamala Harris is

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Speaker 6: going to be about liberal, about climate change, about things

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Speaker 6: that really aren't driving voters right now. The thing that's

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Speaker 6: driving voters right now is fear that Trump's an authoritarian

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Speaker 6: and fear about the banning of abortion and the banning

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Speaker 6: of autonomy. And so it just feels very out of

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Speaker 6: touch what Republicans are talking about right now. And it's

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Speaker 6: why I think the label of weird is really working

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Speaker 6: for Democrats, because what Republicans are talking about is weird.

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Speaker 2: Well, save the weird debate that's coming for the cat

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Speaker 2: Lady section. Let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris's favorability and what it is is that her

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Speaker 2: morning consult July twenty second, her approved disapprove was forty

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Speaker 2: three fifty one, whereas after she entered the race it

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Speaker 2: is now approved disapproved fifty to forty six. Almost all

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Speaker 2: of that is Democrats who previously viewed her, you know,

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Speaker 2: disfavorably and have basically switched. But it represents something significant Ryan,

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Speaker 2: which is a very enthusiastic Democratic base that we haven't

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Speaker 2: seen previously. So with Trump, how do we how would

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Speaker 2: he adjust in terms of thinking about the race where

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Speaker 2: he no longer has this significant enthusiasm advantage that he

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Speaker 2: once had, And what does it mean reaching out to

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Speaker 2: swing voters? Does it just mean driving up that percentage

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Speaker 2: even more? How would you see it?

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Speaker 9: Well, I mean Biden, so against Biden, Yeah, he had

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Speaker 9: a huge, huge advances. I mean but Biden was asleep.

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Speaker 9: I mean that literally he made Ben Carson look energetic.

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Speaker 9: So I think that that's really a position that he

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Speaker 9: was thriving in. I think that in you know, against

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Speaker 9: Kamalaw the difference is as as popular as she is,

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Speaker 9: She's still ten points behind non white voters that Joe

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Speaker 9: Biden was in twenty twenty. According to the Wall Street

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Speaker 9: Journal poll, New York Times poll, she's the worst performing

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Speaker 9: Democrat ever with African Americans since the since Richard Nixon,

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Speaker 9: and she once again the campaign has really just began.

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Speaker 9: She hasn't sat down for a major interview that she

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Speaker 9: hasn't asked, Hey, what did you know about Joe Biden's

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Speaker 9: cognitive decline. They're going to make her own Joe Biden's

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Speaker 9: issues over the economy, over the immigration. Obviously, they've already

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Speaker 9: started doing that. And I think for Trump's campaign is,

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Speaker 9: you know, run out the margins because she's doing so

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Speaker 9: poorly with non white voters. The sun Belt is still

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Speaker 9: seems out of reach for her, although obviously Georgia is

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Speaker 9: in a little bit of a tighter position, and he

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Speaker 9: now still leads in every rustbelt state. Pennsylvania is the

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Speaker 9: own rustbel state, by the way, that the poles were

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Speaker 9: pretty accurate for in both twenty sixteen and twenty twenty,

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Speaker 9: and Trump's you know, it's the RCP average, but it's

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Speaker 9: three points.

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Speaker 10: On other pool polls, it's about two points.

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Speaker 9: So in the state with the most accurate polling, Trump's

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Speaker 9: lead is pretty substantial.

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Speaker 1: So if you look at the I was just going

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Speaker 1: to say, if you look at the Fox News battleground polls,

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Speaker 1: they're tied up in all those states, with the exception

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Speaker 1: of Minnesota, where Kamala Harris is.

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Speaker 4: Up by six.

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Speaker 1: So I actually agree with you, Ryan, I think it

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Speaker 1: probably is sixty forty in favor of Trump at this

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Speaker 1: point because if you look historically at the polls, you

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Speaker 1: know your right to point out twenty twenty, at this

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Speaker 1: time Joe Biden was up like nine points in these

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Speaker 1: same poles. However, I don't think it's accurate to say

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Speaker 1: that according to the polls, she is significantly down in

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Speaker 1: the battleground states, and she's obviously dramatically improved democratic performance

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Speaker 1: among young people and among all voters of color, black

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Speaker 1: and Latino in particular.

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Speaker 5: So not true.

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Speaker 8: That's not true.

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Speaker 4: That no, one hundred percent true.

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Speaker 10: That's absolutely not crystal because as.

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Speaker 4: Compared to No, No, no, it's compared to Joe Biden.

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Speaker 9: As compared to Joe Biden post debate where he literally

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Speaker 9: said he defeated medicaid and you both had aneurysms live

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Speaker 9: on air, Yes, she's done better from that point, She's

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Speaker 9: about exactly where Joe Biden was in March, though, and

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Speaker 9: She is still the worst performing Democrat right now among

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Speaker 9: Latinos and blacks in modern history.

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Speaker 8: There's a reason for that though.

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Speaker 6: So when you talk to African Americans, one of the

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Speaker 6: biggest worries about her isn't whether she can win, it's

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Speaker 6: whether white people will vote for her. It's very much

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Speaker 6: the Obama esque Iowa situation.

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Speaker 8: Black support has a tipping point.

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Speaker 6: We have to believe that white people will vote for

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Speaker 6: her before we're willing to give our support. Now you're

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Speaker 6: seeing this huge tipping point, which is why you're seeing

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Speaker 6: the influx in voter support, especially.

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Speaker 8: Among young people.

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Speaker 6: You know, you see the African American women for Kamala,

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Speaker 6: the Black men for Kamala.

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Speaker 8: Now there's the Latinos for Kama.

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Speaker 6: You're going to see a huge inflection point, which there's

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Speaker 6: an undercurrent. Trump has that undercurrent in twenty sixteen, and

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Speaker 6: we couldn't really pull for it because these were unlikely voters.

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Speaker 8: I think you're going to see the same thing in

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Speaker 8: this election.

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Speaker 6: Among likely voters, Trump is winning, but among unlikely voters,

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Speaker 6: new voters, young voters who aren't usually engaged, you're going

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Speaker 6: to see I think a two percent maybe three point bump.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: One thing, just really quick quickly, I'd like you to

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Speaker 1: weigh in on something I've been thinking about. And I

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Speaker 1: wonder if if you think there's anything to this. When

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Speaker 1: it was Biden versus Trump, it was very clear who

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Speaker 1: was the change candidate.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: Biden's the incumbent.

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Speaker 1: He is like run everstohar democracy, Right, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: his whole like I want to bring things back to

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Speaker 1: a pre Trump era. That's his whole pitch, right, very

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Speaker 1: clearly the incumbent status quo candidate, and Trump very clearly

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Speaker 1: the change candidate. Kamala Harris, I think scrambles some of

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Speaker 1: that calculus and makes it a lot less clear, And

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Speaker 1: I think she is trying to play for the lane

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Speaker 1: of I'm the change candidate a year where I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably pretty compelling. Now that may see counterintuitive given

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Speaker 1: that she's the sitting vice president of the country, but

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, she was basically sidelined by the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: so she isn't doesn't have that sense of incumbency around her.

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Speaker 1: And just by merit of the fact that she is

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Speaker 1: a lot younger and she is a biracial woman, she

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Speaker 1: feels really fresh and different, which is why you're seeing

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Speaker 1: so much like unbelievable off the charts enthusiasm, fundraising, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you see that as a challenge that

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign is going to have to grapple with?

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Speaker 1: What do you think are some of the weaknesses of

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign and mistakes that they're making at this point.

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Speaker 9: That's a really good, really good observation. I agree with

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Speaker 9: that because on the surface, it does look like the

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Speaker 9: change candidate, and then when you look and you boil

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Speaker 9: it down to a lot of the positions she is

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Speaker 9: the vice president. She depends on how much of Biden's resume,

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Speaker 9: Biden's time in office six to Kamala versus being a

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Speaker 9: brand new candidate. I mean, the great irony of Kamala

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Speaker 9: Harris is three weeks ago she was online anyway, she

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Speaker 9: was considered somebody who looked at the show Feep and

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Speaker 9: thought it was aspirational, and now she is the great

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Speaker 9: savior of the Democratic Party overnight. I think a lot

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Speaker 9: of things have to happen in the sense that I

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Speaker 9: don't really Kama doesn't really have a campaign theme, and

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Speaker 9: it's only been ten days.

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Speaker 10: It feels a lot longer. But it's only been a

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Speaker 10: few days.

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Speaker 9: Over the next five weeks, what you know, she will

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Speaker 9: be testing sent she'll have a VP shell the DNC,

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Speaker 9: and she'll probably have her first series of really you know,

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Speaker 9: major interviews, and then we'll be able to sit there

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Speaker 9: and see, Okay, can she hold up to you know,

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Speaker 9: the expectations that have been presented by a lot of

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Speaker 9: Democratic commentators, because as of right now, she's a fairly

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Speaker 9: untested candidate.

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Speaker 10: She only reformation wide office ones and it didn't go

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Speaker 10: super well.

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Speaker 9: So I think in the next five weeks is really

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Speaker 9: where it's going to boil down, Michell.

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Speaker 1: You think that's fair, Michael, Before we move on to

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Speaker 1: cat Ladies, yeah, I do.

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Speaker 6: I just output sixty of her donations in the last

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Speaker 6: seven days have been from new donors, and I think

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Speaker 6: that's the number that should really scare Republicans.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Cat Lady people have been asking for it. Let's

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Speaker 2: get into it. Let's get We're gonna have multiple days

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Speaker 2: here on breaking points of cat Lady conversations, first of

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Speaker 2: the male panel, then the female panel. So let's start

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Speaker 2: originally with the JD Vans original comments they've been making

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Speaker 2: the rounds. Jennifer Andison's very upset. The weird label has

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Speaker 2: now been made and it all traces back to this interview.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 7: Look, what I was basically saying is that we're effectively

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Speaker 7: run in this country via the Democrats, via our corporate oligarchs,

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Speaker 7: by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable

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Speaker 7: at their own lives and the choices that they've made,

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Speaker 7: and so they want to make the rest of the

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Speaker 7: country miserable too. And it's just a basic fact. You

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Speaker 7: look a Kamala Harris, Pete Boodage, aoc. The entire future

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Speaker 7: of the Democrats is controlled by people without children. And

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Speaker 7: how does it make any sense that we've turned our

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Speaker 7: country over to people who don't really have a direct

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Speaker 7: stake in it?

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Speaker 2: Ryan, This clip is basically gone everywhere amongst liberal women.

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Speaker 2: It's supposedly very animating. What do you make of this,

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Speaker 2: I guess in the context both of the vance pick,

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Speaker 2: but more broadly, the pickup of the attack immediately after

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris became the or, I guess, the presumptive nominee

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Speaker 2: for the Democrats the circle. Do you think it's gonna

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Speaker 2: be a problem broadly for Trump. What's your just reaction?

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Speaker 9: I think, I mean, listen, Trump was shot two weeks

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Speaker 9: ago and no one talks about it today. I think

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Speaker 9: it depends on how long this news cycle lasts. For

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Speaker 9: it obviously wasn't a great rollout. That being said, I

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Speaker 9: don't think that it was the end all, be all rollout.

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Speaker 9: The whole thing about being weird is a different version

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Speaker 9: of what Democrats been saying about Trump for years, which

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Speaker 9: is that he's not normal. I mean, I've had to

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Speaker 9: hear not normal like for a decade at this point,

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Speaker 9: over and over and over again. But at the same

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Speaker 9: exact time, I don't know how much of a kill

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Speaker 9: shot they think this is among the base. At the

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Speaker 9: end of the day, if Donald Trump and JD. Vans,

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Speaker 9: if their ticket improves among white men by two points

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Speaker 9: from where it was or three points from where it

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Speaker 9: was in twenty twenty, he is going to an overwhelming landslide.

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Speaker 10: It is that much of the margin and of the.

443
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 9: Women who are you know, women, we have a very

444
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 9: different split electorate among men and women. I don't know

445
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 9: how many women they would have one to begin with.

446
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 9: As terms of women who are so deeply offended by

447
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 9: this that they won't vote for him. They might be

448
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 9: deeply offended and they still vote for him, but I

449
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 9: don't think that they are that deeply defind where they

450
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 9: won't vote for him.

451
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, go ahead, Michael.

452
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: Do you think that it's kind of funny because the

453
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: JD Vance pick comes at like the one moment when

454
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,479
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign really is writing highest right, he just

455
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: to survive this assassination attempt. We got the photo with

456
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: the American flag and all this stuff, and right in

457
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: that moment, because of the assassination attempt, all the chatter

458
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,719
Speaker 1: about we got to pull Joe Biden off this ticket

459
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 1: temporarily quieted so that people myself included, got all right,

460
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: Duncrats are stuck with this dude. That's the context in

461
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: which the JD pick JD Vance pick is made. Do

462
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: you think given this, this comments and others that have

463
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: been made, do you think that they regret that choice already?

464
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

465
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 8: Absolutely?

466
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,479
Speaker 6: I mean JD Vance was a self gratification pick. No

467
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 6: one really likes him but Don Junior and Peter Thiel

468
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 6: and so, you know, I think, especially after that audio

469
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 6: came out, I'd be surprised if Donald Trump is even

470
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 6: talking to jd Vance. It's hard for me to believe

471
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 6: that he would, you know, drop him from the ticket

472
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 6: at this point. I don't even know if legally that

473
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 6: could happen, but if he could, I think there would

474
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 6: be real conversation about it, because the problem with jd

475
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 6: Vance is there is no real audience for him. Like,

476
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 6: people just don't like him. He comes off as that

477
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 6: guy who hangs around, who thinks he's smarter than everybody,

478
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 6: who just like hangs out in his basement.

479
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 8: And you know, as he tries.

480
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 6: To double down on Trump is a he lacks that

481
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 6: kind of charisma that Trump had. You know, I don't

482
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 6: like Trump, but there is a side of him, the

483
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 6: way he talks, the way he kind of carries himself

484
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 6: that you know, you kind of laugh at. There's nothing

485
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 6: to laugh when it comes to Jadie Vance.

486
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 3: Ryan, we'll get your reaction before we actually play with.

487
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 3: Trump himself had to.

488
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 11: Say he's got tremendous support, and he really does among

489
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 11: a certain group of people, people that like families. I mean,

490
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 11: you know, he made a statement having to do with families.

491
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 11: That doesn't mean that people that aren't a member of

492
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 11: a big and beautiful family with four hundred children around

493
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 11: and everything else. It doesn't mean that a person doesn't

494
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 11: have He's not against anything, but he loves family. It's

495
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 11: very important to him. He grew up in a very

496
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 11: interesting family situation and he feels family is good. And

497
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 11: I don't think there's anything wrong in saying that.

498
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: All right, Ryan, give us your reapp both to what

499
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: Michael said and to the Trump clip.

500
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

501
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 10: Trump, it's just so funny.

502
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 9: I'm also mburiously deprived, in semi delirious, so when it

503
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 9: comes to what Michael said, you know, the election is

504
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 9: one and lost in the Rost Belt.

505
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 8: JD.

506
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 9: Vans is one of only two US Senators that are

507
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 9: Republicans from the Rustbelt. I guess Indiana too, but of

508
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 9: major states that are electorially for play one of two

509
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 9: Republican senators. He is also a dynamo fundraiser who bring

510
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 9: in tech money for Donald Trump that was previously off

511
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 9: the ticket. He is also can talk about age dynamic.

512
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 9: He's our first millennial candidate. You know, that's a different

513
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 9: kind of thing. His life experiences of what majorly affected

514
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 9: him in life is the Iraq War, is the Wall

515
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 9: Street Dot Com well, sorry, the real estate crash. Things

516
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 9: that affected us, things that affected people like you, people

517
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 9: like me, And the fastest growing group of people who

518
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 9: are becoming Republicans are gen xers and older millennials, and

519
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 9: I think doubling down on that base is kind of

520
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 9: very important.

521
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me just say though, I mean, yes, he's

522
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: a senator in the Ross Belt. He underperformed every other

523
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: Republican who was running as the lowest favorability. I mean,

524
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is basically like identity politics, right, like, Oh,

525
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: because they're from the same region and they share the

526
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: same identity, they're going to vote for him. And I

527
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: saw an interesting analysis. I'm curious your thoughts on this,

528
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: Ryan that the childless cat lady thing, if it was

529
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: just that, Okay, you're right, the new cycle is going

530
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: to move on. It's going to be a blip that

531
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: we all basically forget about.

532
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 4: You know, very shortly.

533
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: But it's indicative of a style that he picked.

534
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 4: Up in order to both try to appeal to.

535
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: A magabase that was skeptical of him because his prior

536
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: comments about Donald Trump. And also I saw someone saying

537
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 1: this online, which I thought was really interesting. You know,

538
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: he wants to change some of the economic orthodoxy of

539
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: the Republican Party. But he doesn't want to sound like

540
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: a Democrat when he's arguing for something like the child

541
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: tax credit. So instead of framing it like the way

542
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: Trump does, like, oh, he just loves families, he's got

543
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: to make it in this sort of like own the

544
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: Libs aggressive of off putting way, where it's not I support families,

545
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: it's I hate people who don't have kids. So to me,

546
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: that's the bigger problem with him is that he's adopted

547
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: this like edgy online persona that is well suited to

548
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: being a right wing online influencer, but is not particularly

549
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: well suited to winning over a general election audience.

550
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 5: Well.

551
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 10: As someone who worked in the twenty twenty two JD.

552
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 9: Mans Ohio Senate campaign, he was the only contender.

553
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 10: As you said, he underperformed.

554
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 9: He was the only contender against a serious opponent against

555
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 9: Congress and Tim Ryan everyone else. I think the governor

556
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 9: is running against a dog catcher from Columbus. So and

557
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 9: he was also the only non incumbent, and so that's

558
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 9: why how you get to a position where you are

559
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 9: performing a lower federalets are more competitive than state candidates are,

560
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 9: especially against Thebans the place.

561
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: In the state that he performed the most poorly and

562
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: underperformed the most was actually the Appalachian region, where you

563
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: would think he had the deepest ties.

564
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 9: Right, But he overperformed in Cincinnati, which is the whole lot.

565
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 9: Myth that he doesn't appear to appeal to city people

566
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 9: or suburban people is also not true.

567
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 10: I think you over performed Trump in Cincinnati.

568
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 9: But nonetheless and yet still the idea that he's trying

569
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 9: to make this personality for himself that is not real.

570
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 9: Remember jd Vance was a literal cele literal celebrity in

571
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 9: the twenty fifteen If he about moving me after him

572
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 9: with Oscar nominees and Oscar winners, if he wanted to

573
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 9: continue that route, it would in a much easier place

574
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 9: to always be the white Republican who hates white Republicans.

575
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 10: This is not an act. This is who he is.

576
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 9: Can he be a little simpler on the campaign trail

577
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 9: and speak in smaller sentences, Sure, but that's also what

578
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 9: goes on with high IQ very smart people, as they

579
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 9: often talk too much.

580
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's the length of the sentences

581
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: that's the problem here, Ryan that I think.

582
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 9: That, Yeah, No, I think it is. I think that

583
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 9: it's overly intellectualized ideas. I think he'll get better over time.

584
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 9: And once again this race is won and lost by

585
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 9: people who have went through his life experiences. There is

586
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 9: no other candidate in this race of Marco Rubio did

587
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 9: not have the life experience of knowing what the federal

588
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 9: crisis was like, you know, the governor North Dakota de

589
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 9: burgham I forgot his name, Ry Burton, did not have

590
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 9: the leg life experiences. Kamwa Harris was living in Canada

591
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 9: for portions of these things when she was being raised there,

592
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 9: you know, before she came back to accuse Joe Biden

593
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 9: of racism. This is different set of things. Jade Evans

594
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 9: speaks to certain voter's life and they relate to him.

595
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 9: And as much as everyone's talking about, you know, the

596
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 9: the cat lady comments and all their stuff, the number

597
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 9: one download a movie on Netflix all last week was

598
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 9: Hillbilly Elogy. The number one book in the country was

599
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 9: Hillbilly Elogy. People are genuinely interested in him. That is

600
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 9: not being seen on Twitter all the time another audience.

601
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: So it's his lived experience. In other words, Yeah.

602
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 9: They always say that matters for for well, you know,

603
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 9: BIPOC women, is their lived experience in matters from millennials too.

604
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: I do want to get a reaction to this, Michael,

605
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: because Ryan is correctly identifying, like if Correk Kamala wants

606
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: to play to win, she's going for two hundred and

607
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 2: seventy electoral votes, You're not going to go in some

608
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: go big strategy. All the conversation before we get to

609
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: the whole you know, Karen's for Harris, white dudes for Harris,

610
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: and all of that is I think correctly identifying that

611
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: you actually do need to win the white, white men

612
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: and female vote at the same margin as he did

613
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: last time. So then in the VP direction for Kamala,

614
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: which way do you think she's going to go? Is

615
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: it one that you know, as you said, tries to

616
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: excite you know, younger or Latino or black voters, which

617
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: obviously would be nice to have, but you really need

618
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: white male voters in the Rust belt.

619
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: How do you think she's going to think about it

620
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 3: in this context?

621
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think she's going to try to drive up

622
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 6: some support among college educated men, but I think she's

623
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 6: really going to try to drive up support among suburban women,

624
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 6: among young women, young educated women, you know, and you know,

625
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 6: anecdotally to the cat lady comment.

626
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 8: I talk to a lot of friends who have struggle

627
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 8: to have kids.

628
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 6: My wife and I, you know, we want to have

629
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 6: a family one day and we don't yet. And one

630
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 6: of the things that really hit with that comment was

631
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 6: just kind of the meanness of it, because really it's

632
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 6: hard to have kids.

633
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 8: It's expensive.

634
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 6: There's you know, if you go through IVF that's thirty

635
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 6: forty thousand dollars, and so when you talk down to

636
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 6: a lot of these people and their struggles, I think

637
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 6: that really could resonate among especially like suburban families, young

638
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 6: families who are trying to get started, who already are

639
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 6: having trouble buying new homes and now they're trying to

640
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 6: start families late in life, and they see people like JD.

641
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 6: Vance criticize them. It's something that among my wife and

642
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 6: her friends, it's been a really big inflection point. So

643
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 6: I think that's something some campaign should really worry about.

644
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: That's possible, But it was not like your wife was

645
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: ever going to vote for Trump anyways. So Ryan, that's

646
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: any final thoughts I think from you, sir, just on

647
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: this general dynamic as it continues, and where you see

648
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: that competition in the rush bell and with Kamala and

649
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: her VP pick that she might go in that direction.

650
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 9: You know, I've heard all the names of everyone else,

651
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 9: heard Shapiro, Kelly. I probably would say my guess, and

652
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 9: I don't have much insight, but I think it's probably

653
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 9: be Kelly if I had a guess, but Shapiro. You know,

654
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 9: Shapiro has been making a fight for it. Kelly's been

655
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 9: spending a lot of money for it. So we'll see,

656
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 9: and it's going to come down to, you know, those

657
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 9: major three swing states. I have not seen any evidence

658
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 9: that the russ Belts and the sun Belts in serious

659
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 9: play outside of where it's been, and you know, we'll see.

660
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 9: We'll see a lot of people, a lot of people

661
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 9: from a political activist wanting to register a new house

662
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 9: in Pennsylvania over the next couple of months.

663
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: Michael, I want to get your reaction to these affinity

664
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: groups that have sort of gone well. I mean, listen,

665
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: political affinity groups. This is like oldest politics, right, But

666
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: so first we had a huge organizing call that was

667
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: like black women for Kamala. Then it was black men

668
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: for Kamala, then we had other minority groups, and then

669
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: we went all in with the affectionately named Karens for

670
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: Kamala and the white Dudes for Kamala.

671
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: Let's take a.

672
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: Look at a little bit of the content that is

673
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: being created out of the Karens for Kamala. Zoom call

674
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: Aeriel Fodar, affectionately known as missus Frazzle to her combined

675
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: audience of over one point five million followers.

676
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 4: Is here to help gentle parents us through the selection.

677
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 12: I'm going to share some dos and don't for getting

678
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 12: involved in politics online and navigating the toxicity that comes

679
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 12: with it. And spoiler alert, as much as the toxicity

680
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 12: can come from the outside, it can come from us too.

681
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 12: So first, don't isolate yourself. We can do our best

682
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 12: work when we're in community together like we are tonight,

683
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 12: because the toxic feels smaller when we support each other.

684
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 12: But don't make it about yourself. As white women, we

685
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 12: need to use our privilege to make positive changes. If

686
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 12: you find yourself talking over or speaking for bipop individuals,

687
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 12: or god forbid, correcting them, just take a beat and

688
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 12: instead we can put our listening ears on. So do

689
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 12: learn from and amplify the voices of those who have

690
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 12: been historically marginalized and use the privilege you have in

691
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 12: order to push for systemic change. As white people, we

692
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 12: have a lot to learn and unlearn. So do check

693
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 12: your blind spots. You are responsible for your algorithm.

694
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: So, Michael, I personally find this woman too, as a

695
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: white woman, as a member of the white woman community,

696
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: I find this wim to be extremely irritating and all footing.

697
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: But more I you know, when you start having white

698
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: identity affinity groups, I get really uncomfortable and I wonder

699
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: what your reaction is, Michael.

700
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean innately, it makes you a little nervous.

701
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 6: You know, you get a white guy call, you wonder

702
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 6: whether it's going to end up like Charlottesville.

703
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 8: But you know, I think this is how, if it's

704
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 8: going to happen, how you want it to happen.

705
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 6: I'm not afraid necessarily of you know, the white guy call.

706
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: In the r But but Michael, what if it's the

707
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: white guys for Trump call?

708
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 4: Then how do you feel about it?

709
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, it makes me nervous because of what has happened

710
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 6: when white men congregate around Trump in and of themselves.

711
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 6: I'm not worried about a bunch of bunch of white

712
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 6: guys together.

713
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 8: That's just called a fraternity.

714
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 6: But we put it together around Trump, then other things

715
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 6: start to happen.

716
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 8: So, you know, I think there's got to be context

717
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 8: to it.

718
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: Ran.

719
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: I know you're running low on time, so I want

720
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: to get your reaction because I actually saw you not

721
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: defend per se, but you were like, hey, it's actually

722
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: smart to reach out for white people.

723
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 3: There's a lot of white people in this country.

724
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 10: You vote so great.

725
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

726
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: The real question is is should Trump just have white

727
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: guys for Trump, white women for Trump, and all of

728
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: those calls, because clearly.

729
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: You can raise a hell of a lot of money

730
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: whenever you do a phone.

731
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 8: Call like this.

732
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 9: I would have given someone everything I bound bank account.

733
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 9: After she was done talking, they said, man, this is

734
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 9: a Wendy's I love so in Yeah, I watched white

735
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 9: Guys for Trump call and the one interesting thing was

736
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 9: they said, what policies is Biden and Champion that are

737
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 9: positive for white men. That's actually a really important question,

738
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 9: one that people.

739
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 10: Are not allowed to talk about. And I think.

740
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 9: That the I really think that there is a new

741
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 9: door that has been opened in politics because of this.

742
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 9: We're going to talk about what are the interests of

743
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 9: white people in this country, and white voters in this country,

744
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 9: by the way, which overlap with many many other people.

745
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 9: It's a white exclusive policy, but there are a lot

746
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 9: two hundred million white people in this country and no

747
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 9: one has ever one asked for their vote and two

748
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 9: specifically asked for their vote and to talk about policies

749
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 9: that work in their benefit. We kind of, you know,

750
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 9: have comments like suburban women, white blue blue collar worker,

751
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 9: which just means a white person of a certain income level.

752
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 9: But I think that it is I think that it's

753
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 9: a really important conversation because there's millions of people. The

754
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 9: reason Trump became president twenty sixteen was speaking towards people

755
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 9: who felt marginalized and invisible.

756
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 10: And maybe this is the very.

757
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 9: First step, maybe not these calls, but the very first

758
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 9: up to having a conversation to how to reach out

759
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 9: to help the lives of people who feel marginalized and invisible.

760
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: I mean, as a class first leftist, I find that

761
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: I don't support that way of looking at things. Michael,

762
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: I wonder if you feel that we need to do

763
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: more to spend more time thinking about what would be good,

764
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: specifically for white Americans.

765
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, rising tide lifts all boats. So

766
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 6: usually what helps white Americans should to some degree help

767
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 6: other people. But that hasn't been historically true, and so

768
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 6: I think, yeah, focusing a lot of attention on what's

769
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 6: going to help white America is that's just the norm.

770
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 6: So I think allocating our time towards making sure that groups,

771
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 6: minority groups, subgroups are being lifted up is really the focus.

772
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 6: But I do think you do have a little bit

773
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 6: of a point in terms of party. The Democratic Party

774
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 6: has to be better at talking to white men because

775
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 6: as much as I talk to Democrats, when I talk

776
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 6: to kind of independent in right leaning men, they do

777
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 6: feel like they're being left out of a lot of

778
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 6: the conversation. And whether that's right or not, it's how

779
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 6: they feel, and so it's.

780
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 8: To be addressed.

781
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: That's my last question actually for Ryan, which is there

782
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: has been a long obsession in Republican politics about increasing

783
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 2: minority vote share. Obviously this would change things in a

784
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: different direction. Do you think then that because of the

785
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: recognition amongst the Trump campaign, are they going to continue

786
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: to try and go down the Blacks for Trump, Latinos

787
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 2: for Trump lane which very rarely, if ever, actually materializes,

788
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: or is it going to come down to the recognition

789
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: of As you just said, all we have to do

790
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: is take Kamala's white male percentage from seventeen to fifteen,

791
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: and she's going to lose the entire election. How do

792
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: you think they're thinking about it internally?

793
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 9: You know, from what I've heard is obviously they're looking

794
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 9: to double down on Hispanic growth that happened in twenty

795
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 9: twenty and black growth that happened in twenty twenty.

796
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 10: But that being said, the election is about white voters.

797
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 9: White voters in the Midwest and the Roust Belt are

798
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 9: the most important group people selection, and you know as

799
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 9: the whole you know, rising tie lifts all boat. That's true,

800
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 9: But there are certain problems that are specific to the

801
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 9: black community.

802
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 10: There are certain problems that are specific to the white community.

803
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 9: We have a suicide epidemic among middle aged white men that.

804
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 10: Is very specific to their group.

805
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 9: We have had a feedanol crisis, We've had a de

806
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 9: industrialization crisis, We've had a rural America a crisis in

807
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 9: rural America that has certainly affected them differently. We have

808
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 9: a suicide crisis among white teenagers that is differently than

809
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 9: among like the homicide crisis among black teenagers.

810
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 10: These are just different things. It's not wrong to talk

811
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 10: about them, to them.

812
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 9: About how to make their lives better, about what's affecting them.

813
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 9: Talk about reducing crime and proving an economy. Yeah, that

814
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 9: helps everybody, But speaking specifically to the things that are

815
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 9: affecting them where they live, that's something that people haven't done.

816
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 9: That Trump did pretty well in twenty sixteen. That I

817
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 9: hope jd Vance and Trump do this time around.

818
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: If memory serves correctly, the one demographic group that Democrats

819
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: actually improve their perform ormans on in twenty twenty was

820
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: white men. Sure, so I guess the Democrats are doing

821
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: something right with regards to this group. Gentlemen, great to

822
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: see you both. I really appreciate both your perspectives.

823
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: It was very much both. It really was was fun.

824
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 8: Thanks Thank you.

825
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: President Biden has decided to give us proof of life

826
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: and that he does in fact exists. He's decided to

827
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: unveil a new Supreme Court proposal. He did it yesterday

828
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: at the LBJ Library in Austin, Texas.

829
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: It was replete all not only.

830
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: With the policy proposal, but with several old man moments,

831
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: and so we will give it to you in all

832
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: its glory.

833
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

834
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 13: I'm calling for a constant amendment call no one is

835
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 13: above the law amendment the whole. I mean it sincerely.

836
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 5: It holds no.

837
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 13: Immunity for crimes former president committed while in office. The

838
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 13: second thing I'm asking for. We've got term le of

839
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 13: us or presidents in the United States fly seventy five,

840
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 13: five years after the Truman administration, and I believe we

841
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 13: should have term lefics of Supreme Court justice in the

842
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 13: United States as well. Supreme Court's current at this code

843
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 13: is weak and even more frightening voluntary voluntary. Any code

844
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 13: of Congress must be enforceable. Under reform, I proposed, justice

845
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 13: would be required to disclose gifts, refrained from public political activity,

846
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 13: recuse themselves in the case in which they have they

847
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 13: are the spouse that have a financial or other conflict

848
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 13: of interest. Most people don't realize that Congress passed the

849
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 13: law decades ago that says all federal judges, including Supreme

850
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 13: Court justices, have to recuse themselves in such cases. But

851
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 13: the current justices insist on unfortunate not requiring themselves without

852
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 13: any public oversight or composers.

853
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So what we can learn not only from the

854
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: speech itself, which by the way, didn't even include some

855
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: of the best tangents in others, it was truly something

856
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 2: of a performance is obviously Biden is trying to use

857
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: here the mantle of the presidency in his outgoing presidency

858
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: to help elevate some of the best issues for Kamala Harris.

859
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: Supreme Court has been a major flashpoint in the election,

860
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: especially over both Row versus Wade, but also the Trump

861
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: immunity case and several other decisions that have come down

862
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: as of late. Let's put this up there on the screen, Biden, well,

863
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: at least somebody in the White House laid some of

864
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: the details out here in a Washington postop ed. It

865
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: basically comes down to this. First is a constitutional amendment

866
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: called the quote no one is above the Law amendment.

867
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 2: It would make clear that there is no immunity for

868
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 2: crimes that a foreign president can be committed while in office.

869
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: Second would be a term limit for presidents for nearly

870
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: seventy five years. We should have the same for Supreme

871
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: Court justices. So I believe he supports an eighteen year

872
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: active service term limit on the Supreme Court. The third

873
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: is quote, a binding code of conduct for the Supreme Court.

874
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: The Court's current voluntary ethics code is weak and self enforced.

875
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 2: Justices should be required to disclose gifts, refrain from political activity,

876
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: recruse themselves from cases in which their spouses is a

877
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: financial or other conflicts of interest. Every other federal judge

878
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 2: is bound by this code of conduct. There's no reason

879
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 2: for the Supreme Court to be exempt. So obviously, I mean, look,

880
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: it could have been you know, very very different. You know,

881
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of leftists and other people on

882
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: the right who've been very worried or so people on

883
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: the right worried about leftist calls to pack the court

884
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 2: and restructure the court and all that. I would say

885
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: this is a relatively middle of the road from the

886
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: Democrat you know, in the mindset of the Democratic Party

887
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 2: and their like approach to the Court. I don't think

888
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: it was any surprise then that Kamala Harris immediately endorsed it.

889
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: But this is an effort to try and get the

890
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: Court on the mind of Americans, especially, you know, in

891
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: the context of Roe versus Way. And I think it

892
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: was interesting too culturally where people were like wishy about

893
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: this Supreme Court, but I don't think people had particularly

894
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: strong feelings. But Roe really significantly elevated the issue, specifically

895
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: for the Democratic base, to a level that has not

896
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: been in quite a long time, on top of a

897
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: lot of the Clarence Thomas you know investigation, plus just

898
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: in general, I think a lot of Democrats are grappling

899
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 2: with what those lifetime appointments look like in practice. RBG

900
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: Obviously her narcissism literally led to a Republican having the

901
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: ability to appoint her seat. Currently we have the diabetic

902
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: Sonya Soda myowor who's just refusing to step down for

903
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: god knows what reason right, And all of these I

904
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: think are combining of the salience of the court and

905
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: a lack of deference at this point, especially with Biden

906
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: stepping down to the elderly political elite refusing to give

907
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: up power. So all those things coming together, it's a

908
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: relatively strong position for Kamala to be on, and it's

909
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: one of using the Office of the Presidency here to

910
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: try and bolster the Harris campaign.

911
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 4: Yeah no, that's right.

912
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean it's a win win win from their perspective

913
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 1: the issues they're talking about here. I haven't seen polling

914
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: specifically on a constitutional amendment, which is obviously like the

915
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: furthest reaching of these, and almost you know, impossible to

916
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: imagine they're ever being a prayer of getting something like

917
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: that since it does have to require a constitutional amendment through.

918
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: But in terms of the polling on termlaments and the

919
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: polling on a code of ethics, we're talking seventy and

920
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: seventy five percent support, like it is as bipartisan consensus

921
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: as you can possibly imagine. Because of course, there should

922
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: be a code of ethics for the.

923
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 4: Freaking Supreme Court.

924
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: Most Americans would probably be shocked to learn that there

925
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: isn't one. All other federal judges are subject to some

926
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: sort of ethical code, So you know, these are kind

927
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: of like no brainers in terms of political issues. So

928
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: there's a few goals here. As Hagar rightly points out,

929
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court has become deeply salient to the Democratic base,

930
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: in particular in a way that it has always been

931
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: very salient to the Republican conservative base. It's typically been

932
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: Republicans who have been more interested in voting on Supreme

933
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: Court appointments in Supreme Court politics.

934
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 4: Now you have sort of the.

935
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: Shoe on the other foot, with Democrats being deeply interested

936
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: and deeply invested in the Supreme Court, so it raises

937
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: the saliens of the issue there. It also puts Republicans

938
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: in a tough spot because who wants to be the

939
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: one out there being like, no, I don't believe in

940
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: the code of Ethics that seventy five percent of the

941
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: country is like, of course they should have. So, you know,

942
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: is it a game changer in terms of the political landscape. No,

943
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: but it's part of a series of actions that Democrats

944
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: are taking to try to make it clear that they

945
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: stand on the side of issues that are broadly popular

946
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: and put Republicans on defense having to defend positions that

947
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: are broadly unpopular. Another example of this, I don't know

948
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: if you saw this, but the Senate is going to

949
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: take up a vote on the child tax Credit, which

950
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: again is an issue. You know, child tax credit has

951
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: seventy percent support according to recent polls, and Democrats are

952
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: almost wholly on the side of it, and Republicans are

953
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: almost with very few exceptions, on the other side. So

954
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 1: they're trying to push this legislation and put these policy

955
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: proposals out there that they support that we're publicans don't

956
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: support where the numbers are in their favor, and to

957
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: frame the debate that way.

958
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: They're trying their best, and they're basically you know, look,

959
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: I think these are all probably the correct moves if

960
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: I were them.

961
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 3: That's basically the ground that I would play on too.

962
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: That that interesting nearly enough, actually that one, the child

963
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: tax credit thing that they're talking about is combined with

964
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: a business tax credit of some eighty billion dollars, and

965
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: those two things actually past the House of Representatives with

966
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: decent enough support I'm talking about, you know.

967
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 3: With Republican support.

968
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 2: So the fact that it's going to get voted down,

969
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: this is a major issue where you have a lot

970
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: of these guys like John Cornyn and Mike Crapo and

971
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: others have been whipping against the bill. And the truth

972
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: is is that a lot of them, you know, even

973
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: though they do in principle support a lot of these

974
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: business tax credits, they either quote, don't want to give

975
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: Biden the win, or these straight up you know, are

976
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 2: against the child tax credit. I believe Josh Holly said

977
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: he would vote for it. I'm actually curious if Vance

978
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 2: will make the vote, and what if he will attend

979
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: the vote and if he will pass it, which would

980
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: compare with some of the discussion that we'll have later today.

981
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is one where I'm not quite sure

982
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: how much it is all going to work though, And

983
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: this is only because unfortunately the issues have not been

984
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: central so this campaign as so yet. Now it possibly

985
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: could be you know, certainly abortion immigration, the two flashpoints

986
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 2: that the two want to really focus on. The Supreme

987
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: Court Code of Ethics and all that is a proxy

988
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: fight on abortion wife. I think it's probably going to

989
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 2: be a little bit more salient. But at the same time,

990
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 2: you know, whenever we think about how Kamala and how

991
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: the campaign is prosecuting themselves right now from what we've

992
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 2: seen so far, Kamala's two ads, and I believe there

993
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 2: was another one this morning that I watch, it's about

994
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: her personal story, it's about you know, the freedom, very

995
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 2: vague concepts saying two. Whenever I've watched the first two

996
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 2: Trump ads that have come out now against Kamala Harris,

997
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: most of them are just like two liberal and or

998
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 2: you know, open border, pretty classic attacks, and I expect

999
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: them to stick with that, you know, basically throughout the campaign.

1000
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, this is an effort by both Biden and

1001
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: Schumer to do everything that they can to bolster democratic chances.

1002
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: I guess we should and we should say this too.

1003
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: This is an effort by Schumer because he's not just

1004
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: thinking about the Republic the president. He's thinking about his

1005
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 2: own senators who are up in twenty twenty four. So

1006
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: he's got Shared Brown defending, people like John Tester defending

1007
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: and others in a tight spot, and he's trying to

1008
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: tee up votes for them to go home and to campaign.

1009
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 3: On and to say why that they should get elected.

1010
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 2: So, you know, possibly could help somebody like Shared Brown

1011
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: is in a tough race in Ohio, help John Tester

1012
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 2: as well as in very very tough race in Montana.

1013
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: So those are some of the calculus I think behind

1014
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 3: all this.

1015
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we may have. Trump did respond to

1016
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: some of this in a statement. The Trump campaign accused

1017
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: them of wanting to undermine the legitimacy of the court.

1018
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: They said it's all part of Kamala's scheme to pack

1019
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court with far left, radical judges who will

1020
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: render decisions based on politics, not the law.

1021
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 4: So this is the stance that they're taking.

1022
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: But you know the fact that again these reforms are

1023
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: like really moderate and really popular, it just puts them

1024
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: in a tough bind have to sort of mischaracterize and

1025
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: claim that this is an effort to pack the court.

1026
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: It's not court packing, it's termolam. It's very very different

1027
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: scenario and something that Americans broadly support.

1028
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 4: So it's an effort to put them on the.

1029
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: Back foot, to have them have to deal with issues

1030
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: that are outside of their comfort zone. You know, obviously,

1031
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: Republicans want the election to be primarily about immigration and

1032
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: about inflation, so when they're having to defend things like,

1033
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, the Supreme Court not having a code of conduct,

1034
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: it's less than ideal for them ultimately. But you know,

1035
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: do I think most Americans, even given the raised salience

1036
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court for anyone left of center, given

1037
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: Roe versus Way, do I think most Americans are going

1038
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: into the ballot box thinking about like a Supreme Court

1039
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: code of ethics? No, does it help contribute to an

1040
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: overall picture of you know, these people are for things

1041
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: that you don't support, and they're on the fringe minority

1042
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: in terms of their views and the things that they

1043
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: support and defend. Yeah, it could help contribute to that picture.

1044
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: It'll also be interesting if you, you know, if they

1045
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: do come these issues do come up for a vote

1046
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: in the Senate, if there are any Republicans who feel

1047
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: pressured to vote yes on something like you know, of

1048
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: conduct Code of Ethics for Supreme Court justices, because that

1049
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: just feels like such common sense.

1050
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 3: Believe that's already gone down. I'm trying to remember. Okay, yeah,

1051
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: here it is. So I found Leonard Leo.

1052
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: He's the chairman of the Federalist Society, so very influential

1053
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: in circle.

1054
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 3: So he put out a statement.

1055
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 2: He said, if President Biden and Democrats were truly serious

1056
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: about ethics reform, they would ban all gifts and hospitality

1057
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 2: of any kind to any public official in any branch

1058
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: of government, starting with Congress, where the real corruption is.

1059
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: They would close all of the loopholes that allow members

1060
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 2: to travel on private jets to fancy hotels and restaurants.

1061
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 2: With respect to judges, they would include the things where

1062
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: influence pedaling is most present and dangerous, when liberal justices

1063
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 2: rubbed shoulders with influencers.

1064
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 3: At places at law schools.

1065
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 4: He would know.

1066
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: He would know and other Here's the funny thing. I

1067
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: totally agree with this. You know, it's no worries. I'm

1068
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 2: not saying I agree with the criticism, but I'm like, yeah,

1069
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: I agree, dude, let's do it.

1070
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 3: You know, it's one of those where I actually.

1071
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: Want But he's one of the people who's like primarily

1072
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: responsible for putting together those influencers of billionaires with conservative justices.

1073
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: So again, it's lines of what he speaks.

1074
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: It's a Biparsan phenomenon, as Sodoma or Kagan and all

1075
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: of those can show you.

1076
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: But no, you're not wrong.

1077
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 2: One of the things I would say, one white pill

1078
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: I want everybody to take is that it does look

1079
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: like some congressional stock trading legislation will be reported favorably

1080
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: out of a bipartisan committee in the Senate. And it's

1081
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: possible that Schumer could actually tee that up to try

1082
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 2: and give Democrats and or Kamala Harris some talking points

1083
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: going into both the Democratic senators trying to defend on

1084
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: corruption occasions and there so we could have actually some

1085
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 2: at the very least stock trading you know, legislation go through.

1086
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: But you know, one of the things he is empirically

1087
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 2: correct about here, not saying he may even be sincere.

1088
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: But is that the amount of loopholes as we all

1089
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: find out with the Menendez trial, we have to put

1090
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 2: this man on trial twice and needs to straight up

1091
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 2: take gold bars, you know, from somebody to be convicted

1092
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: of bribery. The bars set way too high.

1093
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 4: The gold bars, Yeah, the gold bars.

1094
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 2: Are way too or way too heavy to try and

1095
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: convict a lot of these people. It is ridiculous, you know,

1096
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 2: the amount that they are able to get away with.

1097
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 2: We did find that out too with the Supreme Court.

1098
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: And it is the most difficult part, I think is

1099
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: that you have the federal judges who already have to

1100
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: comply with those ethics codes. And I remember there was

1101
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: a story we did many years ago, it might have

1102
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 2: even been on Rising, and it showed about how federal

1103
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: judges often even did not comply with that code of ethics.

1104
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: But it's only because of the code that we got

1105
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: some insight into their personal stock trading portfolios, and there

1106
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: were many instances where they actually were ruling in the

1107
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: favor of companies that they personally held stock in. Now

1108
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: it's only because of the legislation itself that we even

1109
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 2: got insight into that. We don't have the same level

1110
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: of insight into the personal finances of the rest of

1111
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: these people. And I do think that is bad because

1112
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 2: sometimes we do learn certain things like soda myo or

1113
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: getting X amount of money for speaking fees or books

1114
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:01,959
Speaker 2: and all that, and like, I don't think that should

1115
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: be allowed period. You and I both know anybody who's prominent,

1116
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: you know, speaking fees are bs like is pure influence peddling.

1117
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 2: It's just whitewash, you know, money. It's one of them.

1118
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they're republic I'm sure Alito, you know

1119
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 2: Scolio all these other people took advantage saying even with books,

1120
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 2: the book loophole is one of the tried and true

1121
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: ways that these politicians make millions of dollars while they're

1122
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: still in office. And all of those are just it's

1123
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: just unseemly, you know, the way they use their power

1124
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: to amass great fortunes.

1125
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 1: Well, and it was like less of a news story,

1126
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: and it became less front and center in the American

1127
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: mind when it was just those things would sadly have

1128
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: become sort of like accepted forms of corruption, the book parties,

1129
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: the speaking fees, all of those sorts of things. It

1130
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: really was the pro public of reporting about Clarence Thomas

1131
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: taking it to another level that made.

1132
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 4: This so salient.

1133
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: I mean, just completely sponsored effectively by a billionaire Harlan Grow,

1134
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, having.

1135
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 4: His mother's house paid for and.

1136
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: Getting a loan that we don't alone that we don't

1137
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 1: know that he ever paid back for extremely expensive RV

1138
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: going on these lavish vacations, including private jet travel to

1139
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: these exclusive locations repeatedly by the way. That made people

1140
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: go like, what the hell is going on here? And

1141
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: ask these questions about, Okay, what is the standard? What

1142
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: is the code of conduct? And you come to learn

1143
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: there isn't one, at least not one that's enforceable in any.

1144
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 4: Sort of way.

1145
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: It's just sort of every justice makes up the rules

1146
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: for themselves. That made this a relevant issue. But you

1147
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: brought up an important point about Bob Menendez and the

1148
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: gold bar standard of corruption. It's a Supreme Court that

1149
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: has narrowed the definition of what counts as corruption. And

1150
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that it's wild conjecture to suggest that

1151
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: perhaps the reason that they saw fit to narrow that

1152
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: definition of corruption is because they themselves are open to

1153
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: potential allegations of corruption given, you know, depending on the

1154
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: definition thereof. So it was in their personal interest to

1155
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: make it so that corruption basically doesn't exist unless you

1156
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: literally are in the position of taking gold bars for

1157
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: an immediate exchange of a business deal or.

1158
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 4: Favor or whatever it is. This a lot of this.

1159
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: Goes back to the case against Bob McDonald, former governor

1160
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: of Virginia, who is taking all kinds of gifts and luxury,

1161
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 1: this luxury that in exchange it appeared for if business

1162
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: deals in the state of Virginia during the time that

1163
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: he was governor. He was convicted and then is overturned

1164
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court, and that was a significant narrowing

1165
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: of the definition of corruption. There was another case recently

1166
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: with regard to some Andrew Cuomo aids in New York

1167
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: just to show you this is bipartisan exemptions for corruption

1168
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: all around, where because they had technically resigned their government

1169
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: positions when they delivered on the quid pro quo, they're like, oh,

1170
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't count. It's not corruption because you weren't technically

1171
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: in that position, even though you went back to the

1172
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: position after you engage in the quid pro quo. So

1173
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, this is just all to say, it's not

1174
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: just about the conduct of these individuals.

1175
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 4: It's also the way that.

1176
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: This can have downstream effects on the decisions that they make,

1177
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: defining corruption for all branches of government. To go back

1178
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: to the Leonard Leo point about how, hey, this isn't

1179
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: just about the judiciary. True, true, but that doesn't mean

1180
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: that there are real problems with the judiciary to be

1181
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: dealt with.

1182
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 4: So that's the deal.

1183
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: The last thing I have to say about this is

1184
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: just going back to the Biden speech, like how happy

1185
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: are Democrats that this guy is not their standard bear?

1186
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: Guys don't like the stories he was telling. It was

1187
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 2: an hour and something long speech, and it was that

1188
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 2: part was probably the most COVID that it got.

1189
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: And like, how insane is it that there was anyone

1190
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: that what two weeks ago was Oh he's Sharpa's attack.

1191
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, he's got to stay in there. He's amazing,

1192
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: he's gonna win my thirteen keys say he's gonna win

1193
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: the tres.

1194
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 3: Like watching it, I was so shocked.

1195
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: I mean I still and look, it's funny, but it's

1196
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 2: not funny because at the same time we got a

1197
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 2: whole Israel block. You know, we're talking about Israel Hesbola

1198
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: that we talked about yesterday. I am terrified of this

1199
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 2: man in White House and the situation we have months

1200
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 2: left to go and in his speed, you know, all

1201
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: of his dealings. You really look the memes where everyone's like,

1202
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: who's running the White House and all of that, it's

1203
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 2: all true. I mean, seriously, who is even running the

1204
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: Israel Palestine policy portfolio? Is it just these random bureaucrats

1205
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 2: who we know Amos hostein now.

1206
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about Amos Hoxney.

1207
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 2: I do this for a living and I've tried my

1208
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 2: best to learn a little bit about him or Jake

1209
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: Sullivan failed track record, blink and failed track record, all

1210
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 2: of these other people. It's outrageous, it really is. It's scary,

1211
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 2: you know, watching him up there. So look, I'm glad

1212
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 2: he's going away, but I'm not glass.

1213
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 4: That's not soon enough.

1214
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, gave you a little glimpse into why

1215
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: literally ninety percent of Americans are like, thank goodness, this

1216
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: guy is not running for reelection again. It's very unim

1217
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: fine moment for the country, but also should go back

1218
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: and look at the people who were doing though. He's

1219
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: sharp as attack and all the media is unfairly attacking him,

1220
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: and you know, oh, and it'll be illegal to take

1221
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: him off the ballot, and there'll be all these legal

1222
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: challenges and you literally can't even do it. Never trust

1223
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: a word those people tell you again, because the very

1224
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: same people the next day were like, Oh, we're so

1225
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's amazing, the fort stepping down, and we love

1226
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: Kamala Harrison, We're so happy, without a second of reflection

1227
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: on how wrong they were and how much they were

1228
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: lying in gaslighting in service of this obviously obvious like

1229
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: man who was obviously unfit to serve even right now today,

1230
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: let alone four years from now.

1231
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 4: So anyway, yes, all.

1232
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 3: Right, let's get to the next part.

1233
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 2: Some really troubling information now about further holes in the

1234
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: secret services narrative of what happened in the attempted assassination

1235
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump. New text messages who've been obtained by

1236
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: The New York Times revealed that local pol we're tracking

1237
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: the gunman some one point five hours ahead of the

1238
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: attempted assassination. Let's put this up there on the screen

1239
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: so you can actually see through a variety of these

1240
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: text message screenshots say quote you have this one gentleman.

1241
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 2: At four twenty six pm, he says, someone followed our

1242
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: lead and snuck in parked by our cars.

1243
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 3: Just so you know.

1244
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: I'm letting you know because you see me go out

1245
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: with my rifle put it in my car, so he

1246
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 2: knows you guys are up there. He's sitting to the

1247
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: direct right on a picnic table about fifty yards from

1248
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,439
Speaker 2: the exit roger that two people respond. Then at five

1249
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: point thirty eight pm, two photos of the gunmen are

1250
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 2: sent by one of these individuals.

1251
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 3: He continues kid.

1252
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 2: Leaning learning about around building. We are in AGR. I

1253
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 2: believe is I did see him with a rangefinder looking

1254
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: towards stage. FYI if you want to notify SS snipers

1255
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 2: to look out, I lost sight of him. Also a

1256
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 2: bike with a backpack sitting next to it in the

1257
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: rear of the building that was not seen earlier. All

1258
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: into command and have a uniform check it out. So

1259
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: they were following this young man for basically the entire time,

1260
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 2: ahead all of his movements. Five ten pm, the young

1261
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 2: man no longer at the pickmic table, he's right below

1262
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 2: the counter snipers. Counter sniper takes photos of him, sends

1263
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: it to law enforcement for the app and then according

1264
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: to the after action report, they see that all of

1265
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 2: these text messages which are from these local police are

1266
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 2: shared in the group chat amongst the officers they need

1267
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: to inform the Secret Service they're giving him a heads up.

1268
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: Then by six eleven PM, that's shortly after the shots

1269
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: are fired and the gunman is killed by the Secret

1270
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 2: Service counter snipers. But they see how in the hours

1271
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 2: ahead of the assassination that they were identified, that the

1272
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: gunman was identified both by the local police, that he was,

1273
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 2: that they not only were tracking, that he had a rangefinder,

1274
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 2: that he knew exactly where the gunman or the counter

1275
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 2: snipers were, that they were sending heads up. And then

1276
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 2: it highlights the communications breakdown that we talked about yesterday,

1277
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 2: a decade long communication failure between local police and Secret

1278
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 2: Service that gets out into the open. What we really

1279
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,959
Speaker 2: see here is that the Secret Service attempt to throw

1280
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: the local cops under the bus.

1281
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 3: I think is shameful now with the revelation of this.

1282
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: They were doing their job, they were tracking this person,

1283
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 2: they were trying to give a heads up to the

1284
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 2: higher command. They clearly were trying to plug the holes

1285
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: in the perimeter. They had good situational awareness, and it

1286
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 2: was the communications breakdown, obviously, the failure itself from Secret

1287
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 2: Service that allowed something like this to happen. And clearly,

1288
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 2: I mean, the other problem is too, it's raising a

1289
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: lot of conspiracy theories, maybe even legitimate ones who are like, okay, seriously,

1290
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 2: like what's happening here? How is this even allowed to happen?

1291
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: It was this an inside job? Like at a certain

1292
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: point you have to ask like crazy questions. Where are

1293
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: they just obtuse and not learning the information at all?

1294
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 2: Did a radio call never go out? Was there really

1295
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: not a single calm check between the local police and others,

1296
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 2: especially if he tells them call it into the higher command.

1297
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: They were doing everything that they were supposed to do,

1298
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 2: remaining aware, seeing where people were notifying their higher ups

1299
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: and each other. It seems that the counter snipers themselves

1300
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 2: didn't even know about it, and the Secret Service agents

1301
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 2: ultimately allowing Trump to go out on the stage. Remember,

1302
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 2: he's only shot some five minutes after he goes out there,

1303
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,439
Speaker 2: so they should never have let him out on the stage.

1304
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 4: In the first no doubt about it, no doubt about it.

1305
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: And I mean part of what is soo revealing here

1306
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: is the fact that they had eyes on this guy

1307
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: and knew there was a problem an hour and a

1308
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: half right before Trump takes the stage, and yet there

1309
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: and they know, hey we saw him with the range fighter,

1310
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: Hey I lost sight of him. And still nothing is done.

1311
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: Still Trump is allowed to take the stage, and his local,

1312
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: the Secret Service detail that we're on him, were claiming like,

1313
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: we didn't have access to any of those communications, We

1314
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: had no idea. So what the hell is going on here?

1315
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: And when you read the TikTok of this, it really

1316
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: is astonishing because don't forget so apparently crooks went the

1317
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: day before to scope out the rally site and is

1318
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: able to walk around and take a look around. Then

1319
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: he was able to fly his drone over the rally

1320
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: side while law enforcement is there setting up and setting

1321
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: the perimeter and getting everything ready. How the hell does

1322
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: that happen? Then after he flies his drone around, that's

1323
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: when he finishes and sits at the picnic table. That's

1324
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: when he's spotted by this counter Snipery then walks to

1325
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: his car, left the drone inside the car and was

1326
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: then just hanging around the warehouse complex. So you this

1327
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: guy who flew a drone, who's lurking around with a rangefinder,

1328
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: who's identified and photographed. One of those photographs is one

1329
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: that circulated immediately afterwards. We had no idea that it

1330
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: was actually taken by law enforcement that day prior to

1331
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: the shooting, and all of this happens, and you get

1332
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: even to the point where he's on the roof, and

1333
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: you have local regular citizens yelling at Secret Service, yelling

1334
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: at law enforcement. There is a guy on the roof

1335
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: with a gun, and this still goes forward. So you know,

1336
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: seeing the TikTok of all these text messages and the

1337
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: manifest multi layered failure is quite astonishing. Another thing we

1338
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: learn we just learned, is that you know, these local

1339
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 1: police departments, they were struggling to fill the request for

1340
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: the manpower the Secret Service was asking for. You know,

1341
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: people had different obligations. This is not a large urban

1342
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: I actually know this part of the country pretty well,

1343
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: and this is not a large urban area, so they

1344
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: don't have, you know, a massive manpower, a massive police force.

1345
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: So if your Secret Service and your local partners are

1346
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: not able to fill all the roles, then that's on

1347
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: you to make sure that everything is secure, you know,

1348
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: and that the manpower needed is provided. So I agree

1349
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: with you that, well, there may have also been local

1350
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: law enforcement failures. Ultimately the buck stops with the Secret Service, like,

1351
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: this is your job, this is your duty, and clearly

1352
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: there was a massive failure here.

1353
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, even more on the TikTok of the day is

1354
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: super interesting, Like it seems that the morning of he

1355
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 2: goes to home depot buys a ladder, so he has

1356
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 2: enough situational awareness of the site to know the ladder

1357
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 2: to get up there. Arrives, he apparently stays in his car,

1358
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: flies his drone, gets out, begins attracting attention. Now one

1359
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 2: hour before the first photo of him is taken at

1360
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 2: five fourteen pm, so that's exactly an hour before the shooting.

1361
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 2: Now people are like, hey, this guy knows where we are,

1362
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,959
Speaker 2: he's acting sketchy, he knows where we're going. Then USTA's like, hey,

1363
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 2: this dude was saw him with a rangefinder. I mean

1364
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: basically at every single time, like all the way up

1365
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 2: till five thirty eight, there were probably three or four

1366
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: separate opportunities that he could have been stopped, both from

1367
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 2: the drone the day before. You also see that the

1368
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 2: Secret Service itself was aware of some serious issues in staffing.

1369
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 2: That's what you're referencing about how they had difficulty getting

1370
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:44,439
Speaker 2: enough police officers to volunteer to take over the site.

1371
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 2: I mean, the real question, too, is about how some

1372
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 2: of his other past activity was never flagged or by

1373
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 2: law enforcement of any kind. Let's put this up there

1374
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: on the screen. What they show here is that the

1375
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 2: Trump shooter began quote buying guns and bomb materials more

1376
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 2: than a year ago. Now, this is part of why

1377
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: I get so frustrated whenever they they always talk about

1378
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 2: needing more resources afterwards, Was it not you know what

1379
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 2: some thirty years ago now almost that they blew up

1380
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma City courthouse with fertilizer and lo and behold,

1381
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 2: that's the type of stuff that he's ordering online. Like

1382
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 2: allegedly that was supposed to trip you know, some signs

1383
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 2: and actually get people to come and to visit and

1384
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 2: to pay attention. But he apparently was able to search

1385
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 2: online pretty repeatedly. Listen to this for information about power plans,

1386
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 2: mass shooting events, improvised explosive devices. He then researched that

1387
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 2: may assassination attempt on the Slovakian prime minister and apparently

1388
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 2: had been googling quote major depressive episode. I mean, all

1389
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 2: of these look obvious in retrospect, but the big flag

1390
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 2: to me is the more than a year ago buying

1391
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,959
Speaker 2: bomb making materials. Because according to the FBI and others,

1392
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: they're supposed to be super adept at you know, piecing

1393
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 2: all of these things together going back some thirty years. Clearly,

1394
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 2: I mean it's a huge fail and its obviously their

1395
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 2: own security dragnet that they purport to be very effective

1396
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: in all that they're not even good at policing it.

1397
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 2: So the more that you learn about this entire thing,

1398
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 2: you see all of the things come together. You see

1399
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 2: the text messages reveal the incompetence. But I still think

1400
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 2: that there is significant more questions here about whether the

1401
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 2: Secret Service itself actually knew of the gunman some minutes before,

1402
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: and if the call was made by the Trump detail

1403
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 2: to allow him to step onto the stage. Because we

1404
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 2: have a photo of the gunman exactly almost one hour,

1405
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 2: fifty eight minutes or whatever before the shooting. That is

1406
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: just a simply unforgivable thing that they allowed him to do.

1407
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,919
Speaker 1: To me, almost the crazy thing is the drone. Yeah, yeah,

1408
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: I would never in a million years think that on

1409
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: the day of hours before a rally you could just

1410
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: casually fly a drone scoping out the rally site and

1411
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: that this would be fine and no one would even notice.

1412
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 4: That's that's crazy to me.

1413
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: And I'm sure for anyone else who was out there

1414
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: with malicious intent, they are clocking very closely how many

1415
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: failures there were. I mean, thank god, this was just

1416
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: some you know, twenty year old who was was sort

1417
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: of freelancing it. If this was a trained professional, we

1418
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: all know what the result would have been, and we

1419
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: came within an inch of that result occurring anyway. You know,

1420
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: it's interesting what you say about the online searches, because

1421
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: we have given up in this country so much of

1422
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: our civil liberties, both to the government and to these

1423
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: large tech companies. And it's like, all right, if you're

1424
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: going to be spying on our every search, like, can

1425
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: you at least do some good with it? Like can

1426
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: you at least identify the dude who's buying an AR

1427
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: fifteen and stocking up on bolts?

1428
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 4: It was his dad's aar fifteen.

1429
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 3: Let me be fair, well, he did do it from him,

1430
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 3: so you know, oh, did he as a.

1431
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: Record of that, stocking up on bullets, stocking up on fertilizer. Now,

1432
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: his parents were interviewed and they said that he'd always

1433
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: been quote interested in science and experiments. So all this

1434
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: like chemicals and gun equipment that he's stopped felling. They

1435
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: were like, oh, this is fine. Which are questions there

1436
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: as well about what's going exactly is going on, but yeah,

1437
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, well, if we're going to be spied

1438
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: on every second of the day, the very least you

1439
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: could do is use that information in some sort of

1440
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: a useful manner here. But that obviously did not happen,

1441
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't doubt that it's difficult to

1442
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: This is a classic lone wolf. As much as far

1443
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 1: as we can tell, there really was no ideological motivation

1444
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 1: outside of just creating mayhem, chaos and horror like that

1445
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,919
Speaker 1: seems to have been His whole goal, based on the searches,

1446
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: was to find the most high profile person target he

1447
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: possibly could, and it just so happened that Trump was

1448
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: holding this rally very close to his home, and so

1449
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: it was, in a sense, this like crime of opportunity.

1450
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: And if you can imagine if it had been Joe

1451
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 1: Biden or another person there, given the searches that he

1452
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: was engaged in, it may have been a different political

1453
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: figure that he ends up targeting. So I don't doubt

1454
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: that it's difficult to track these people in advance. But

1455
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: when the dude is there flying a drone on the

1456
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: day and then you spot him with a rangefinder, and

1457
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: then you spot him behaving suspiciously, and when you try

1458
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: to track him down he grabs a backpack and runs

1459
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: away from you, that seems, like, you know, a pretty

1460
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: significant sign just the slay person, that there's something bad

1461
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: that's about.

1462
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 3: To happen here. Yeah, exactly.

1463
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 2: And that's one of those where don't let the whole like, oh, well,

1464
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 2: you weren't there, you weren't a professional. It's like, no,

1465
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 2: I think we all know, and at a certain point

1466
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: we are the people who pay for all of this.

1467
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea? I mean, the secret Service

1468
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 2: budget and protection. All that is technically secret, but it

1469
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 2: costs probably I would say in the range of a

1470
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 2: couple hundred million a year in terms of securing the president.

1471
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 2: What are we paying for you know, all of this

1472
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:41,600
Speaker 2: nonsense so that they can fly the beast, you know,

1473
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 2: all the way to China twenty four hours before the

1474
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 2: president lands for this big, great, big security perimeter. And

1475
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: it's like then the former president, active Republican candidate is

1476
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: on the stage and we're not pulling him when we

1477
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: know the most glaring and obvious things that happened right

1478
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 2: here in our own country some what couple hundred miles

1479
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,919
Speaker 2: away from Washington, DC. The whole thing is just absolute

1480
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 2: nonsense the way that it happens. So still lots of

1481
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 2: questions to be had here, especially from the agent and

1482
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 2: the agent in charge of the detail itself, whether he

1483
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 2: had any for it, if he did, I mean, just imagine.

1484
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: To me the most legitimate like quote unquote conspiracy theory.

1485
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: Ryan used this term malicious and competent. Yeah, where it's like,

1486
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't an inside job or you know,

1487
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: he wasn't a recruited asset. He doesn't seem like a

1488
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 1: porterrially like likely candidate to have been a recruited asset.

1489
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: But was there just a sense of like we don't

1490
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: really care, we don't really care what happens at this rally.

1491
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: We aren't really that interested in protecting this particular individual.

1492
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 1: That I would say is an extremely legitimate and very

1493
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 1: open question at this point.

1494
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, all right, let's get to Israel.

1495
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: Wild scenes coming out of Israel yesterday when members of

1496
01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: the Kanesse and government ministers joined a far right armed

1497
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 1: mob to storm multiple Israeli military bases. And so, as

1498
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 1: I said before, you may think this is an exaggeration,

1499
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 1: but it was literally in defense of IDF soldiers who

1500
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,799
Speaker 1: gang raped a Palestinian prisoner.

1501
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 4: So let me back up.

1502
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: Let me show you some of the images here as

1503
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: I speak, this is one of the mobs storming a

1504
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: military base that has been turned into a mass prison camp. Now,

1505
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 1: this is a place that has become quite notorious post

1506
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: October seventh. There have been multiple news reports and a

1507
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: UN investigation that revealed horrifying details of systematic abuse of

1508
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: the Palestinians who are being held there, including systematic sexual assaults. Specifically,

1509
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: we've got multiple accounts of a hot metal rod being

1510
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 1: shoved in the anus of multiple Palestinian prisoners. We've also

1511
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: heard about severe meetings. There have been dozens of Palestinians

1512
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 1: who have died at these facilities. Starvation, I mean, every

1513
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 1: kind of degradation and torture you can imagine has been

1514
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: documented by Palestinians, doctors, Israeli doctors, whistleblowers, journalists and the

1515
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: like occurring at this location. So the Israeli government has

1516
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: been under a lot of pressure from the ICC, the ICJ,

1517
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: and also from some different world governments, including the UK,

1518
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: to show some sort of willingness to prosecute their own

1519
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: people for these crimes. So they decided to go ahead

1520
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: with the prosecution of I believe nine IDF reservists who

1521
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: they claim they have overwhelming evidence participated in one of

1522
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: these sexual assaults of a Palestinian prisoner. So yesterday, when

1523
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 1: the military police go to arrest and detain these IDF soldiers,

1524
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: it kicks off this absolute riot, first at the location

1525
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 1: where the abuse occurred, then at the other military base

1526
01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: where the reservists were brought and detained and held a

1527
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: waiting trial. Just absolute insane scenes that are unfolding. So

1528
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: in order to understand this a little bit better with

1529
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: regards to Israeli domestic political context, we wanted to bring

1530
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: in a guest. We've gotten Israeli journalists who set to

1531
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: join us.

1532
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 4: So let's get to that.

1533
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: Happy to be joined this morning by Shiel ben Efreim.

1534
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: He is the host of multiple shows, one on YouTube

1535
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: Calle Child ben Fhreim explains Israel and another one called

1536
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: the History of the Land of Israel podcast.

1537
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 5: Welcome Chile, Thank you, good to be here.

1538
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I did my best to set up what

1539
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 1: unfolded in Israel yesterday with this mob storming multiple Israeli

1540
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 1: military bases. Let's actually put F two up on the screen.

1541
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 1: This was I think some of the secondary clashes that

1542
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 1: broke down at the detention center where the Israeli reservists

1543
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 1: who are accused of sexual assault are being held. Could

1544
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 1: you help us just understand here, Shiel, some of the

1545
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: context within which these clashes erupted.

1546
01:13:58,880 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1547
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 14: I mean, it's very difficult call for Israel watchers to

1548
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 14: fully comprehend what's going on here too, but I'll do

1549
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 14: my best. So the best way to set the stage

1550
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 14: for this is to look at what's going on socially

1551
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 14: in Israel right now. So there's always been a pattern

1552
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:23,480
Speaker 14: where when Israeli soldiers are accused of doing anything to Palestinians,

1553
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 14: a lot of elements in society rally behind them.

1554
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:33,799
Speaker 5: It used to be the extreme right, and now it's spread.

1555
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,799
Speaker 14: So there's always been this kind of impulse to defend

1556
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 14: Israeli soldiers. It used to be a minority position, but

1557
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 14: October seventh strengthened that trend a lot. So after October seventh,

1558
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 14: the the Israeli soldiers were seen as heroes to a

1559
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:55,759
Speaker 14: much greater degree than they ever had been before. And

1560
01:14:56,040 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 14: the events of October seventh made the Hamas members the

1561
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 14: worst enemies of the public in the state of Israel,

1562
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 14: and for many people, that even spread to other Palestinians,

1563
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 14: especially in Gaza, who they saw as supporting the events

1564
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 14: of October seventh. So you really had an increased amount

1565
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 14: of support for the idea of and a increased amount

1566
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 14: of hatred for Palestinians and Hamas in particular. That meant

1567
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 14: that there's a sort of culture of impunity to do

1568
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 14: whatever you want to Hamas because of what they did

1569
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 14: on October seventh strengthens existing trends, but it made them

1570
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 14: a lot stronger, and that's one of the reasons why

1571
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 14: when there have been various crimes committed legend crimes committed

1572
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 14: by IDEA of soldiers in Gaza and also in Israel

1573
01:15:56,240 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 14: against detainees. The IDEF has not prosecuted them, or has

1574
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 14: very rarely prosecuted them. Now, it's important to note that

1575
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 14: the military brass and the IDEA wants to They want

1576
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 14: to prosecute people who do things like this, not because

1577
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,720
Speaker 14: they're bleeding hard liberals or anything, but because the military

1578
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 14: has an impulse to keep discipline, because without discipline it's

1579
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 14: hard for them to function. But they know that if

1580
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 14: they prosecute people, they won't get the backing of the government,

1581
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 14: to put it mildly, and elements in the government will

1582
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:33,679
Speaker 14: come out against them, attack them, try to get them fired.

1583
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 14: Protesters might try to harm their families. So the pressure

1584
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 14: from the extreme right is great. So that's why there

1585
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 14: hasn't been much discipline in the IDEF, because no one

1586
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:48,680
Speaker 14: wants to touch the rank and file soldiers, and of

1587
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 14: course among the rank and file soldiers there's a lot

1588
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 14: of right wing extremists as well, but also to people

1589
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:59,759
Speaker 14: who are very angry at the Palestinians for what happened

1590
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 14: on seven.

1591
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 5: Then also just people who are not good people who

1592
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 5: want to do whatever they can and now they can

1593
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 5: get away with it, right. There hasn't been much disciplined.

1594
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 3: Got it.

1595
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 2: So let's put this up there on the screen, just

1596
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 2: to crystal laid out some of the details just one second.

1597
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 3: I want to get your reaction here where.

1598
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 2: They're storming this detention center and these lawmakers, as you're saying,

1599
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 2: are trying to inject chaos into the Israeli army. Can

1600
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:26,719
Speaker 2: you just then outline the exact circumstances of what happened

1601
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 2: here and what it's like to witness it from inside

1602
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 2: of Israel. Yeah.

1603
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, So.

1604
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 14: What happened now is because there's been massive pressure from abroad,

1605
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 14: most particularly investigations from the ICC and the ICJ, but

1606
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 14: also a demand from the British government and to a

1607
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 14: lesser extent from the American government to start cracking down

1608
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:52,799
Speaker 14: on what's happening in.

1609
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 5: This facility, in this detaining facility, which is known as

1610
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 5: that they might so.

1611
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 14: In May and in June, expos as came out about

1612
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 14: Datamon on CNN The New York Times, citing serious more crimes,

1613
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:15,719
Speaker 14: torture to the point where some detainees were getting skild

1614
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:18,680
Speaker 14: from beatings that they had others were having limbs amputated

1615
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 14: because they were kept in positions where the blood wasn't circulating,

1616
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 14: and claims of sexual abuse. Israel denied it, but the

1617
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 14: allegations weren't going away because they were true.

1618
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 5: As it turns out they were true.

1619
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 14: So under immense international pressure and when the Bridgers said

1620
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 14: they would stop selling arms to Israel, Israel finally decided

1621
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 14: to prosecute nine soldiers who had been involved in a

1622
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 14: sexual assault on a detainee. This story came to light

1623
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 14: when doctors saw that one of the detainees had their

1624
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:02,480
Speaker 14: anus had been something had been inserted in their aus

1625
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 14: very forcefully, and the injuries were very clearly indicative of

1626
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 14: sexual abuse. Once that news came out that they had

1627
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 14: been arrested, soldiers in their unit posted on social media

1628
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,520
Speaker 14: about what was happening and said that this is an outrage,

1629
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 14: and within an hour people showed up on the base, Protesters,

1630
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 14: family members, members of Knesset i AM, the most extreme

1631
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 14: white right wing politicians like Gottlieb from the ly could

1632
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 14: in svisukut In ben Verer's party, and along with masked

1633
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 14: people in uniform heavily armed. Eventually the police managed to

1634
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 14: get them to leave. They convinced them to leave. The police,

1635
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 14: which is under ben Vere, who was the most extreme

1636
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 14: right wing leader in Israel, convinced them to leave. Then

1637
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 14: after that they assaulted the t center where they were

1638
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 14: being held in Betlids and went into the military courts,

1639
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,719
Speaker 14: and again the police didn't stop them because the police

1640
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:11,200
Speaker 14: is under the extreme right way. So what we have

1641
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 14: here is the Israeli security apparatus captured or at least

1642
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 14: strongly hindered by the most extreme right wing elements in society.

1643
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 14: It's important to note that that leader ben Vere and

1644
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 14: people like him didn't go to the army.

1645
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 5: They're hated by the security services.

1646
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 14: They're considered terrorists by a lot of people in the

1647
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 14: security services, but the security services are increasingly powerless to

1648
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 14: stop them, and this threatens the ability of Israel to

1649
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 14: operate as a sovereign state, and of course also threatens

1650
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 14: Israel standing in the world and is an absolute nightmare

1651
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:50,839
Speaker 14: for Israel from every perspective.

1652
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 5: And of course it.

1653
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 14: Also shows that these elements in society are one of

1654
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 14: the reasons that this happened, because ben Vere is responsible

1655
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,640
Speaker 14: for the person services, so he's also responsible for oversight

1656
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 14: over this prison, and he's made his populistic goal to

1657
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 14: show that under him, terrorists will have the worst possible conditions.

1658
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 5: And I don't know whether he ordered.

1659
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 14: Any of this or not, probably not, but he created

1660
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 14: a created a circumstance where being in humane to detainees

1661
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 14: was expected.

1662
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 5: It was it was, it was a good thing.

1663
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 14: And of course we need to point out that a

1664
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:31,639
Speaker 14: lot of these detainees were not members of Hamas.

1665
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 5: We don't know the exact number.

1666
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 14: It looks like the person who was abused in this

1667
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 14: case was a Hamas terrorist, But a lot of the

1668
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 14: people who experience these things are innocent. So this is

1669
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 14: this is a scandal that that speaks to Israel's human rights,

1670
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 14: It speaks the ability to govern as a sovereign state

1671
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 14: and so on.

1672
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 4: Were any of the violent protesters yesterday.

1673
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 14: Arrested, No, No one was arrested. They were convinced to

1674
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 14: go home. The police will not arrest them unless there's

1675
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 14: a political decision to do so.

1676
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 1: SOCIL, What does what does all of this mean for

1677
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: I saw some speculation about, you know that you could

1678
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: have an even greater conflagration if there's a withdrawal from

1679
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:21,599
Speaker 1: Gaza without whatever complete victory looks like, which, you know,

1680
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,640
Speaker 1: the complete victory that's been laid down of destroying Hamas

1681
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: is likely impossible to achieve. What do you expect this

1682
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: portends for the future of Israel when the viewpoints that

1683
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 1: are being expressed as you lay out, were once fringed

1684
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: and are now completely mainstream to the point of, you know,

1685
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: I could show the video, but I'll just paraphrase it.

1686
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 1: You're literally having a debate in the Kanesset about whether

1687
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 1: it is legitimate to quote, insert a stick in a

1688
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:51,759
Speaker 1: person's rectum. And you have a member of the Lukud party,

1689
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: a kanescant member, saying yes, if he is a nukba

1690
01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 1: a Hamas terris, everything is legitimate to do to him.

1691
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: That's how mainstream these views have become. So what does

1692
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 1: this pretend for the future of Israel?

1693
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:10,959
Speaker 5: Well, unfortunately, the trends.

1694
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 14: The trend predates, it predates the war. The war has

1695
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 14: exacerbated it, and it's actually not that different from what

1696
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:27,679
Speaker 14: we see in the United States or what we're seeing

1697
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 14: in other countries where the populist right wing is becoming

1698
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:36,600
Speaker 14: increasingly powerful. They use a lot of the same methods

1699
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 14: that Maca does here, that La Penn does in France,

1700
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 14: but it's tied to a deep Jewish fundamentalist impulse that

1701
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 14: has always been in Israel and is frightening. What does

1702
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 14: it pretend for the future. It's sort of hard to

1703
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 14: have a country that is secular, liberal the way that

1704
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 14: Israel has been with you know, with its with its laws,

1705
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 14: and that has this kind of impulse in its governance.

1706
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 14: The next elections will be a battle for the soul

1707
01:24:15,280 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 14: of Israel, and as we know from the United States,

1708
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 14: even when the more moderate side wins, the other side

1709
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 14: continues with disinformation and venom and trying to sabotage the

1710
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 14: ability of the government to rule. I think there's going

1711
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 14: to be a lot of people in Israel who, if

1712
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 14: this continues to be the kind of government that they

1713
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,519
Speaker 14: have in the long term, will leave. And those will

1714
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 14: be the most productive members of the society. Those will

1715
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 14: be the high tech leaders, those will be the professors,

1716
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 14: those will be the literati, and so on and so forth,

1717
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 14: which is something that I think the extreme right is

1718
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:55,759
Speaker 14: real wants because that will help them.

1719
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 5: Run the country better.

1720
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 14: And there's an attempt to dismantle these rail judicial system

1721
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:03,799
Speaker 14: because that's the one check in balance the Israeli system

1722
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 14: has against this kind of power. So right now, Israel,

1723
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 14: similar to a lot of other countries in the West,

1724
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 14: the United States as an example, is having a battle

1725
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:16,880
Speaker 14: for its soul. And I think if the liberal democratic

1726
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 14: forces in Israel lose, Israel will be lost. It's not

1727
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 14: going to be able to survive. If it doesn't have

1728
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,320
Speaker 14: allies in the world, then it's going to be sanctioned

1729
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 14: by everyone, treated like a pariah state. That liberal part

1730
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 14: of the country is what kept Israel's part of the

1731
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 14: international community, and what kept it allied with the United States,

1732
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:36,280
Speaker 14: and what kept it as a big trade partner for

1733
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:36,759
Speaker 14: the EU.

1734
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,720
Speaker 5: And if Israel loses that, it's not going to be

1735
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 5: able to survive.

1736
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 14: The extreme right fringe and the fundamentalists aren't going to

1737
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 14: be able to support the Israeli economy, aren't going to

1738
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 14: be able to supports real society, not in the long term.

1739
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 5: Many many don't serve in the army.

1740
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 14: It's a disaster for Israel if these people take over,

1741
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 14: and this is a step towards taking over, like make

1742
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 14: no mistake, hindering the functioning of the state.

1743
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,080
Speaker 5: If they completely take over, the state of.

1744
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 14: Israel will not exist in the long term, and I

1745
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 14: don't think I think that's quite a possible outcome, unfortunately,

1746
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 14: But there's a lot of people in Israel who are

1747
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 14: against this, a lot of people, maybe the majority.

1748
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 5: At this point, I have no idea, and hopefully they

1749
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:15,679
Speaker 5: we'll fight back.

1750
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 8: Chiel.

1751
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 4: I think it's fair.

1752
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 1: You can correct me if I'm wrong, But you would

1753
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 1: sort of politically identify as like a liberal Zionist. Is

1754
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 1: that a fair characterization of your views? So there are

1755
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: plenty of things that, yeah, that you and I wouldn't

1756
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: necessarily see eye to eye on, but I really wanted to.

1757
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to put up this tweet that you sent

1758
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: yesterday and commend you for it, because I think this

1759
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 1: is a very difficult thing to admit when we've gotten

1760
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 1: something wrong, or to acknowledge and identify our own blind spots.

1761
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:42,839
Speaker 1: So if we can put F six up on the screen.

1762
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 1: You said in response to all of these events yesterday,

1763
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 1: I feel stupid in a shade and ashamed. In May

1764
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 1: and Expose came out on CNN detailing the abuses in

1765
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 1: state Tayman. I'm sure I butchered that pronunciation. Apologies. Then

1766
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: the NYT released their own article on it. Both were

1767
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 1: backed up by Israeli sources crossed with Palestidian ones. Yet

1768
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 1: you say you dismiss them because your government sources and

1769
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: Israeli media denied them. My whole life, I was told

1770
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:14,720
Speaker 1: that the international media was out to get Israel and

1771
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: that they were all anti Semites, and so with that

1772
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,680
Speaker 1: blind spot, even with the reporting, even you know, you

1773
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: had a UN report about this, you had multiple mainstream

1774
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 1: media outlet reports, you dismissed it because of the you know,

1775
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 1: the propaganda ecosystem that you existed in and what your

1776
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 1: own government sources were saying. So I'd love for you

1777
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 1: just to talk a little bit about that and also

1778
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 1: talk about whether this revelation has changed your assessment in

1779
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 1: any other part of you know, Israel's prosecution of the

1780
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:45,839
Speaker 1: war in Gaza or Israel in general.

1781
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, that is a difficult question.

1782
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 14: So as far as what was happening with that, they

1783
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 14: mun they knew that what was going on there was

1784
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:58,160
Speaker 14: very bad, and no one was denying that. It's just

1785
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 14: that the the worst abuses were being covered up, the

1786
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 14: ones that like like what we're talking about. And now

1787
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 14: people I've talked to who told me that that these

1788
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 14: things weren't true.

1789
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 5: Are now telling me that they are.

1790
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,840
Speaker 14: And that's because the military censorship is no longer on

1791
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 14: some of these cases, and there's going to be other prosecutions.

1792
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,000
Speaker 14: So there's been a change of strategy there, and that, Yeah,

1793
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 14: that definitely.

1794
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 5: Undermined a narrative that I had.

1795
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 14: It's it's hard to it's hard to explain to people

1796
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 14: who aren't Israeli.

1797
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:30,680
Speaker 5: What the attitude towards the rest of the world is.

1798
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 14: You know, there's the legacy of the Holocaust, there's a

1799
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,160
Speaker 14: legacy of anti Semitism. Israel Is singled out in the

1800
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:40,919
Speaker 14: United Nations more than any other country, and the international media.

1801
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 5: Focuses on Israel more than just about any other country.

1802
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 14: And what Israelis have always felt is that they're singled

1803
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 14: out by the international community and that this has to

1804
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:52,640
Speaker 14: do with the legacy of anti Semitism. And it's not

1805
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 14: that that viewpoint is not completely it doesn't have any

1806
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 14: validity to it.

1807
01:28:57,160 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 5: It's just that it blinds us to things.

1808
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 14: So, you know, if you say to Israelis all the

1809
01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 14: New York Times, that, this and that and that, they'll say, well,

1810
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 14: the New York Times they're out to get us. They're

1811
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 14: anti Semites, and I grew up in that in that

1812
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 14: in that attitude, And now that I've had this verified, I.

1813
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 5: See that the article. I read the article again and I.

1814
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:24,720
Speaker 14: See the article uh May was very well sourced, and

1815
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 14: it shows the kind of blind spot that we had.

1816
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 5: And now I'm going to have to rethink a lot

1817
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 5: of things.

1818
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:33,440
Speaker 14: I think that the war on October seventh was absolutely

1819
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,320
Speaker 14: just had to happen, because after after the uh the

1820
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 14: events that occurting Israel, they had to happen. But I've

1821
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 14: always had questions about the way we've conducted this war

1822
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 14: on multiple levels, and now I have I have more questions,

1823
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 14: and now I am more prone to believe reports about

1824
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 14: what Israel is doing to innocent civilians. And again I've

1825
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:56,680
Speaker 14: always believed these reports to some extent, but thought they

1826
01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 14: were exaggerated. Now I'm going to be looking a lot

1827
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:03,800
Speaker 14: more objectctively at these numbers, a lot more objectively at

1828
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 14: this information, and I'm going to be a lot more

1829
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 14: concerned about Palestinian civilians who are being killed. I was

1830
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 14: concerned before, but I also was more skeptical about the

1831
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 14: information that I was receiving. None of this stops me

1832
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 14: from thinking that Israelians to fight for its survival. None

1833
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 14: of this makes me stop thinking that Israel is facing

1834
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 14: people who want to destroy it, but it's making me

1835
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 14: a lot more critical of.

1836
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 5: How Israel is doing it.

1837
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:31,599
Speaker 14: There are a lot of people in the Israeli government

1838
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:36,640
Speaker 14: who have bad intentions and have absolutely no morals, and

1839
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:38,719
Speaker 14: there's a lot of people in society who back them,

1840
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 14: and I don't trust them to wage this war morally

1841
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:46,719
Speaker 14: or effectively. And I think that people who support Israel

1842
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 14: need to very carefully hold their feet to the fire

1843
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:54,720
Speaker 14: and criticize violations of human rights and to criticize the

1844
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:58,679
Speaker 14: way that they're running this war, and any Palestinian civilians

1845
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 14: who are needlessly suffering as a result of this war,

1846
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 14: and strive to end the war, get the hostages back,

1847
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 14: start to rebuild, and move towards to a two state solution.

1848
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 14: So I'm still a Zionists, but I want Israel to

1849
01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 14: be more moral, and it hasn't been moral.

1850
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 2: We appreciate you joining us, Sirs, unfortunately not at a

1851
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 2: tight timeline, but really enjoy talking to you. Thank you,

1852
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:19,760
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching and appreciate it

1853
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 2: and enjoy counterpoints tomorrow.

1854
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 3: We'll see you all on Thursday.