1 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Let's start today's 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: episode off with a question, a favorite topic of conversation 3 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: for those of us here at how stuff works when 4 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: we're just hanging out off the air. Have you ever 5 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: wanted to perpetrate a heist like Ocean's eleven style? And 6 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: if so, did you ever envision yourself having a specialty? 7 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: You know how all the heist teams always have their specialists, right, Well, 8 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to be the bagman. The bagman? Yeah, yeah, 9 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: what does that entail? It's it's the coolest title. Yeah, 10 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: it's up there. The bagman je generally, And someone right 11 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: in and correct us if I'm off base here, but 12 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: the bagman generally is a term describing the person who, actually, 13 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: when you're physically stealing currency or jewelry or precious metals, 14 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: the person who physically holds the back. You see, I'm 15 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: known for my grip, Is that true? Yeah? Yeah, they 16 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: say Noel Brown, that kid's got a good grip. They 17 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: usually refer to me Ben Boland in my past heist 18 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: as either the the inside man or the uh, the 19 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: shady government liaison. I would have called you the brain. 20 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: That's very kind. That's very kind. And I guess by 21 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: virtue of his position on the show, our super producer, 22 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram would probably be And I don't want to 23 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: pigeonhole you. Hear Casey our computer expert. You gotta have 24 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: a hacker. Yeah, you know, it's actually funny. There was 25 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: a character in one of the Grand Theft Auto games 26 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: that reminded me a lot of Casey and Casey if 27 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: you if you, if you take this as an insult, 28 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: and you know the character I'm talking about, please don't, 29 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: because I'm more talking to out his his very intelligent demeanor, 30 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: not not not his look. He was a little bit 31 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: of an odd looking fellow. But he's the guy that 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: ran the warehouse where they planned all the heist and 33 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: they had the big chalkboard and they you know, drew 34 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: the maps and they had the Remember that guy. Yeah, Um, 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: as long as you're not Trevor Phillips, Casey is he is? 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: He like the meth head guy, uh, Trevor Trevor Phillips 37 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: is the unhinged head guy. Yeah. He lived kind of 38 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: out in the salt and Sea type area of of 39 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: what's the name of the fake l a San Andreas. Uh. Yeah, well, 40 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: I want to say there's definitely a sant Andreas. It's 41 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: gotta be sant Andreas. I have a segue. It's actually 42 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: gonna work here bad, all right, go for it. We're 43 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: talking about video games. You ever heard of the Assassin's 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: Creed video games? Yes? I played them all. Actually, is 45 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: there is this one out? Yeah? I just saw this video. 46 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: It's called Assassin's Creed something legacy or something, but it's 47 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: agin or maybe it's about London gangs. Oh yeah, I 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: don't know if that one's out yet. Okay. Then then 49 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: I saw a preview of this game and it's about 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: London gangs. And in this game, the topic of today's 51 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: episode was paid homage to Oh Wonderfully. They talked about 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 1: the forty Thieves, the Farty Thieves, the fart Elephants gang. Yeah. Yeah, 53 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: remember the Gangs of New York. Wasn't there a gang 54 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: called the Farty Thieves? Uh? And Irish gang Irish gang. Yeah, 55 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: And just to be clear, we're saying four zero with 56 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: an Irish acts and not not the flagelent Elephants or 57 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: the Flatulent for the flatulent thieves. Yeah, that's awesome. I 58 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: want to check that game out. I mean, have you 59 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: played a Susands Degree before? I have not. Oh, it's 60 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: it's funny, it can be repetitive at times. It's a 61 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: mixture of some really cool fighting and then some at 62 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: times incredibly frustrating jump around solve the puzzle sequences. Isn't 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: there a lot of like stock kind of like from 64 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: a distance, keep your distance and then moving for the 65 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: kill kind of stuff? But I mean, who hasn't done 66 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: that totally just in regular life. So so, there was 67 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: a real life gang of thieves, jewel thieves specifically that 68 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: we're known for their successful, very well planned out heist. 69 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: They were active for more than two hundred years. See 70 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: I thought that was a typo when I first saw 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: it was someone added an extra zero, right, No, two 72 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: hundred years. And this gang was made entirely of female criminals, 73 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: operating out of the Elephant and Castle area of London, 74 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: which I find to be a magnificently whimsical name for 75 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: an area London, and you know the UK in general. 76 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: They have they're very they have wonderful names for places 77 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: in streets and neighborhoods. But I gotta say I'm not 78 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: a fan of British names for food, probably just because 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up there, But like barley water, spotted dick, 80 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: bubble and squeak bubble and squeak, bubble and squeak, isn't 81 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: even that egregious, sounds like fun whatever it is. But 82 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: barley water, that just that sounds like a punishment, right, 83 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't think it is not. I think it's It 84 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: sounds like it would be a good euphemism for beer. 85 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: But barley water is a um it's just boiled grain 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: in water that hasn't you know, it still doesn't have alcohol. 87 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: It seems like if there's no alcohol, why would you bother? Right, 88 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: why would you bother consuming barley? So when when did 89 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: the forty thieves really? When we're what were their glory days, 90 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: we talked about that they were also called the forty Elephants. Yes, yeah, 91 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: so that's that's what I'm going to refer to them 92 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: as because they lived in this Elephant and Castle district. 93 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: They were also they were self contained and they were 94 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: an all female band of um heisters. I don't know 95 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: what you want to call it, criminals, um, but they 96 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: were backed up by another gang of kind of really 97 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: rough and tumbled dudes who are the Elephant and Castle 98 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: Gang and kind of like we're almost like their muscle um. 99 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: But yeah, so they were active possibly as early as 100 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds, based on police records. A lot of 101 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 1: this comes from a book called the Gangs of London 102 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: by a guy named Brian McDonald, and he says that 103 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: the forty Elephant gang um was probably the most active 104 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: between the eighteen seventies and the nineteen fifties, but again 105 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: go back as far as possibly the seventeen hundreds, right, 106 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: they may have been operating without being recognized. Brian also, 107 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: Brian McDonald also has a book specifically about the forty 108 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: Elephants and one of their most notable leaders, who will 109 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: get to in a moment, but the book is called 110 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: Alice Diamond and the Forty Elephants. I appreciate that you 111 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: mention the Elephant and Castle Mob. They were in a 112 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: way the muscle. They were headed by these guys called 113 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: the McDonald brothers, and while they were allied together, they 114 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: differed widely in their methods. So the Elephant Castle Mob 115 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: they were more kind of bruisers. But the forty the 116 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: Eaves or the forty elephants were much more calculated in 117 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: their crime. They would they would play the long game. 118 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: At times, they would masquerade as housemaids for wealthy families. 119 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: They would use false references and back up the references 120 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: as well. And during the early twentieth century they were 121 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: led by someone called Alice Diamond, known variously as the 122 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: Queen of the forty Thieves or as Diamond Danny. That's 123 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: the thing. Then. They were a very very militaristically run organization. 124 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: From their inception, they operated in a series of like cells, 125 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: almost like a terrorist group, and they always were led 126 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: by a queen. This Annie Diamond was just kind of 127 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: the most notorious and influential one. Yeah, that's correct. There 128 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: were many because again this gang was active for around 129 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: two hundred years, far surpassing the lifespan of the average 130 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: person at the time. And in their heyday. It's strange 131 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: because they were romanticized a bit by papers of the 132 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: of the time. In one paper they were referred to 133 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: as amazons, who were handsome women about six ft tall. 134 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: We we can walk through maybe some of their methods 135 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: because I know we made them sound like, uh, they 136 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: only did disguise work, but that was that was just 137 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: one of their many strategies for bilking people out of 138 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: jewelry and valuables. They did a shoplifting method that is 139 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: actually still common and in practice and parts of the 140 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: world today, which is overpowering the store through the sheer 141 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: volume of people participating. All of the gang members would 142 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: rush into a store from various entrances, and then since 143 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: there were too many people to apprehend, they would just 144 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: grab everything they can and then they would flee out 145 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: of the store, heading in multiple directions, knowing that not 146 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: all of them could be caught. Not only that they 147 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: had like reserve funds for when they had to bail 148 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: out the one or two stragglers that did get caught, 149 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: and they basically were considered like untouchable because they had 150 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: deals running with the police. And this is a very 151 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: corrupt period in English history. You have to remember. This 152 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: is like on the tail end of the Industrial Revolution. 153 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: Things were changing really really quickly, and it was kind 154 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: of like just a free for all as far as 155 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: these street gangs, of which there were many, and I 156 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: just wanted to rattle off a few other ones in there. 157 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: You know, in this part of the country is huge, 158 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: You've got gangs like the Scuttlers, the High Rip Gang, 159 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: the Peaky Blinders in Birmingham, you've got the cock Road 160 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: Gang and other such amazingly absurd and beautiful names. Um. 161 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: But the forty Elephants had an incredible reputation for being 162 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: ruthless and being cunning and being, like I said before, 163 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: practically untouchable because of the way they ran their operation 164 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: in these cells and like you're saying, been the way 165 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: they were able to kind of scatter. Yeah, kind of 166 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: a hydra organization. Cut off one head and two will 167 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: rise in its place. I don't think we mentioned that 168 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: Diamond Annie was ruling during the interwar period, so she's 169 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: around nineteen ten or the late nineteen tents, so World 170 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: War one has already started. She and her lieutenant, baby 171 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: Faced Maggie, which I love these nicknames. Everybody's got a 172 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: great nickname. Uh. They're the ones who reputedly had the 173 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: idea of partnering with the Elephants and Castle Mob to 174 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: make sure that they had enforcers. There's an excellent article 175 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: about this gang written by Amelia Hill for The Guardian 176 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: called Girl Gangs Grip on London Underworld Revealed, and it 177 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: dives into some of the work of Brian McDonald. But 178 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: it also gives us a good context for the time 179 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: in which this gang existed, or this this Glory Day era, 180 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: because they were taking advantage of the misogynistic chauvinistic attitudes 181 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: of the time. You know, people thought, oh, a woman 182 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: couldn't possibly be a criminal if she's dressed well. Yeah, 183 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: and I heard this somewhere, Ben and um, let me 184 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: know if you did, or if you think this is 185 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: complete lea bogus, But I heard that they sort of 186 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: had an advantage because women weren't allowed to do very 187 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: much on their own in this time. But one thing 188 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: they were allowed to do was shop right on their own. 189 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: And it may have even been that they were not 190 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: paid as close attention to because of the fact, like 191 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: you're saying that they're wearing nice clothes and that they're 192 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: on their own, unaccompanied without a chaperone. You want to 193 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: respect their privacy. You don't want to be forward in 194 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: this very repressed age. So there were some upsides here 195 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: which we can explore later. But there there are some 196 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: other organizational things that they were very talented at. They 197 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: had their own territory like most gangs do, but they 198 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: demanded a percentage of all crimes committed in their territory. 199 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: So if there's another gang, will make up a gang. 200 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: Let's say the Devin rye On Sandwich gang steals uh something. 201 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what they steal, they still get winded, 202 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: they still hats yeah, and then the forty thieves or 203 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: the forty elephants find out about it, they will demand 204 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: a percentage from that haberdasher's robbery because it happened on 205 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: their turf. And then if someone refused to pay up 206 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: get a bit too big for their bridges or perhaps 207 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: their trousers, then the gang would send their elephant and 208 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: castle mob to beat the snot out of them or 209 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: kidnap their notable members or their family members until their 210 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: percentage was paid. And that's to say that the female 211 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: members of this gang weren't bruisers in and of themselves. 212 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: Diamond Annie, for example, got her name because she had 213 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: a fistful of diamond rings that if she clocked you 214 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: in the face with you probably lose an eye or 215 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, you would not be doing very well. And 216 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: they were known for wriggling out of tight situations with 217 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: the law with violent methods. They'd carry blackjacks, straight razors, 218 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: and all kinds of concealed weapons. But for the big stuff, 219 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: like you said, the door to door, you know, give 220 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: give us our what do you call it? Are big 221 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: or whatever you know? Or like the what do they 222 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: call in the Sopranos when they getting collections right and 223 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: going to the door, they sent left that to the 224 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: big burly dudes. Yeah, there might also be the matter 225 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: of protection fees or something like that, exactly. They also 226 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: did something that may surprise people. They diversified their crime, 227 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: which makes it more ma FiOS and less just street 228 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: they were. They were very into blackmailing men, seducing married 229 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: men or men of note, and then forcing them to 230 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: pay either a huge lump sum or a continuing almost 231 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: the service fee not to reveal their carnal predilections. Yeah, 232 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: and we're kind of leaning on some of the most 233 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: well known members of this gang, like Diamond Annie In particularly, 234 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: Like you said, I mean that book um that McDonald 235 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: wrote focuses a lot on her. But there's a lot 236 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: of periods in this gang history that we don't know 237 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: a whole lot about other than that they did exist 238 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: right right, because they were also successful at functioning away 239 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: from the spotlight. It's weird because for almost two hundred years, 240 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, they were playing a very dangerous game. If 241 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: any of them were caught, they could be sentenced to 242 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: somewhere between three and twelve months hard labor or three 243 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: years in prison and hard labor. At the time, and 244 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: we've talked about this on previous episodes, was absolutely no joke. 245 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: You know, you're like, what is it. You're unraveling rope. 246 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things you had to do, uh, 247 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: you digging ditches. And despite these high risk and these 248 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: serious consequences, a lot of the gang members, maybe even 249 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: the majority, were long timers. Maggie Hughes or baby Face. 250 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: Maggie had shoplifting convictions that went back to the age 251 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: of fourteen. And when these as as I think we 252 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: said earlier, when these women or members of the gang 253 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: were caught, they did have their own independent support systems. 254 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: So your family members or your you know, your dependence 255 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: would be taken care of, or they would help you 256 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: fight the system get out of jail. But another I 257 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: like that you mentioned the fact that there were many 258 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: other people who were lost to history that were members 259 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: of this gang. We know a few. There's for example, 260 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: Adah Wellman, who was convicted of shoplifting from army and 261 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: navy stores in Victorian ne and she was we know 262 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: she was still an active member of the gang almost 263 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: twenty years later because she shows up in police reports 264 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: eighteen years after her arrest when she got jailed for 265 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: four months due to another crime. So these are career criminals. 266 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: It's not like a side job. It's it doesn't sound 267 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: like they were doing that thing so common in heist 268 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: movies where we'd say, you know, Casey Noel, let's get 269 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: the gang back together for one last score. No, this 270 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: is a premise score. This is a life. I mean, 271 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: this is a generational thing. If we're talking about two 272 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: hundred years of this, um, I'm going to call it 273 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: an organization because that's clearly what it was, and it 274 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: was maintained that way for quite a long time. You know, 275 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: this this stuff, these tricks of the trade would be 276 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: passed down, you know, like I mean, it's it's really fascinating. 277 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: So they had one, I guess, great problem that any 278 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: shoplifting network will run into if they are successful, And 279 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: the problem was had abundance of stolen riches. What how 280 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: do they get rid of this? How do they take 281 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: something that they have stolen, for instance, a unique piece 282 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: of jewelry right, or very high quality clothing and translate 283 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: that into cold, hard cash. This meant they had to 284 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: create a distribution network so that they would you know, 285 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: because if they stole something and then just waited a 286 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: week and started wearing those clothes or selling diamonds on 287 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 1: the street, boom, They're back to hard labor again. So 288 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: they instead relied on a network of fences and then 289 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: unaffiliated street market traders and of course pawn shops. So 290 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: part of the clothing they stole would be just sold 291 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: to a clothing store. In the clothing store just to 292 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: make some scratch, all they would do is replace the labels, 293 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: so you would say, oh, that's not a Hertfordshire Blackfoot boost, 294 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: I'm just making Some were close though. I think one 295 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: of the big stories they robbed had a very similar 296 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: name to that. And just like the gang itself, this network, 297 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: while being fluid, also prospered for a long time. The 298 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: forty Thieves seem to have been at their glory days 299 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, so that's why 300 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: we know uh so much about Alice Diamond or Diamond 301 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: Annie the woman with the punch to be aware of. Oh, 302 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: I guess we could talk a little bit about her 303 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: background if you want, just briefly. Oh, we absolutely should. 304 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: Ben By Dad dude, just want to point out the 305 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: names of some of the biggest retail stores in London 306 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: on the high Street that they hit. It was because 307 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: you made up a beautiful one and it made me 308 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: think of it wasn't that far off, Ben, We've got 309 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: Debonham and Freebody. Oh what do they sell? You know, 310 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: Ladies Lingerie is more of a department store still at all, 311 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's just sort of like a like a 312 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: serious type situation imag department department store kind of Herod's exactly. Okay, 313 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: So since we are lucky enough to know a little 314 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: bit about the notorious Alice Diamond, let's let's look into 315 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: her background. She was born in eighteen nine six in 316 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: June of eight in Lambeth Workhouse Hospital, and Diamond was 317 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: her real name. It wasn't just a cool moniker. Her 318 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: father was named Thomas Diamond. Her parents had applied for 319 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: a maternity birth under the name of Black before they 320 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: married because at the time, Alice would have been an 321 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: illegitimate child because she had been born out of wedlock. However, 322 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: since they decided instead to marry shortly before Alice was 323 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: born to avoid the problem. Her father had at least 324 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: three criminal convictions, including one where he assaulted the son 325 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: the Lord Mayor of London by punching his head through 326 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: a pane of glass in a door, and Alice turned 327 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: out to be the eldest of seven children. One of 328 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: her younger sisters also joined the Forty Thieves gang, and 329 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: one of her brothers, Tommy, became a member of the 330 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: Elephant and Castle Gang. Ben, Can I just point out 331 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: really quick then that I have seen it as Alice 332 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: and also Annie. Yes, yeah, just real quick, because I 333 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: was confused for a second. I was about to cop 334 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: to uh to saying the wrong name. That now I'm 335 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: looking back over our sources and it's definitely said. Both 336 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: are said. Like many criminals, she added Ann and Alice 337 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: to her name, or referred to herself as that multiple 338 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. It's like an alias, so she can 339 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: there you go, just like sometimes I'll be Max Powers 340 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: astronaut with a secret or Chris from Boston, who again 341 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: is retired. We mentioned him on a previous episode. People 342 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: love Chris from Boston. He just, you know, the brightest 343 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: lights shine briefest. So here's to you. Chris's sad. It's good, 344 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: It's it's okay. We've got to move on, you know, 345 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: circle of life and all that, as far as aliases 346 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: and ak s go. Alice's or Anne's criminal career began 347 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve because she was caught stealing chocolate. In 348 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, she was officially named the Queen of the 349 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: Forty Thieves. The previous queen was someone named Mary Carr, 350 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: also known as Polly car. But we don't know a 351 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: ton of stuff about Mary. We mostly know when it 352 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: goes to who was the Queen of the forty Thieves, 353 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: we mostly know about Alice or Anne. And when you 354 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: think about it, it sounds like a swashbuckling life, or 355 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: it sounds like a maybe a romanticized thing. But it 356 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: was a brutal life. And they believed that the only 357 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: alternative to this would be a crushing existence in poverty, 358 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, or possibly crushed under the 359 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: thumb of some man. And they did live it up. 360 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: They were well known for their parties. They would really 361 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: throw down at pubs and social clubs. And I think 362 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: the fact that they also because of their reputation, I 363 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: would imagine they were allowed and permitted to do things 364 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: that you know, other women would not be because people 365 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: were scared of them and they didn't want to like 366 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: raise up right, because that wouldn't have been proper for 367 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: a group of women to have a big old, you know, 368 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: drunken to do right. And then also gives them some support. 369 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: That kind of lifestyle gives them some support in parts 370 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: of the population, right because you know, if the forty 371 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: thieves or the forty elephants are coming to the restaurant 372 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: or the club or something, that it's gonna be a 373 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: wild night. I mean you can part You might get 374 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: blackmailed later, but you could party right. I mean, they 375 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,479 Speaker 1: were getting the equivalent, the equivalent of like bottle service. 376 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: You know, they were really really dropping some some cash. 377 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: And we do have to thank McDonald. We can't think 378 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: of it enough because Brian McDonald uncovered a lot of 379 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: this previously unknown information by hitting the bricks, scouring official 380 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: birth and death records, perusing marriage indexes. UH local newspaper 381 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: reports hunting down out of print books at the British 382 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: Library to read contemporary accounts, and everything he found was verified. 383 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: There's there's a thing where like imagine you grow up 384 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: in a very impoverished situation and you say, well, I 385 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: can slave away at a minimum wage job until I 386 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: get ill, at which point I have to be consigned 387 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: to the poorhouse or workhouse or something and probably die 388 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: early of a disease that may well have been preventable. 389 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: Or I can break social norms. I cannot only become 390 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: a criminal, but I can do it well. According to McDonald, 391 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: they idolized glamorous movie stars and the decadent living of 392 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: the nineties flapper society. So they read about the the scandalous, 393 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: salacious behavior of people born into privilege or celebrity, and 394 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: they wanted to emulate them in a way. It's in 395 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: a way it is very similar to the stories we 396 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: hear now about modern drug dealers. You know. I mean, 397 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: Atlanta is full of strip club They want the chains, 398 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: they want the grills, they want all this stuff, the 399 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: status symbols or whatever. But ultimately they're living a very 400 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: risky and potentially short existence in order to have those things. 401 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you about that excellent freakonomics report 402 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: that broke down how much per hour drug dealers actually 403 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: make on average. You were saying it wasn't great. No, 404 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: it's the op unless you're like the distributor or whatever. Yeah, 405 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: the high level individual that's really pulling the strings. That's 406 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: where you know, make the big money. Right, it's a 407 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: it's a very unfairly distributed hierarchy typically, So if you 408 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: want to learn more about that, and it is tangentially 409 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: related to this episode, but it's it's fascinating information. Nonetheless, 410 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: I'd like to recommend a TED talk by the author 411 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: Stephen Levitt, who presents the data he found on the 412 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: finances of drug dealing. These folks are not living the 413 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: high life. It is much more. Um, what's the best 414 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: way to say it. No, it's just terrible. There's not 415 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: a good way to say it. It's it's a terrible, 416 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: terrible life. Don't sell drugs. I mean, if you're looking 417 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: to make a lot of money off of it, don't 418 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: expect to. Well, how about performing a very organized cell 419 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: based gang and doing smashing grabs for a living. That 420 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: would be there's an interesting topic there too, Knel, because 421 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: that would be much more difficult, at least here in 422 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: the US in the modern day, and definitely in the 423 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: United Kingdom. The United Kingdom for a few years running 424 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: now has had the largest amount of closed circuit television 425 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: cameras CCTV cameras per capita, I believe, in the world. 426 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: So you're much more likely to get caught on film, right. 427 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: You're also much more easy to track if you have 428 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: a cell phone, since we all have those GPS locators 429 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: on our phones. It was easier to get away with 430 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: crime back then. Oh absolutely, I mean like that, it 431 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: was just rampant. I can't imagine who who would want 432 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: to go into business. Have you seen the ballot of 433 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: buster scrugs yet? Yeah, I've seen it, seen it several times. 434 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: It makes me think of the bank teller kind of 435 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: situation where you're just constantly on the ready with like 436 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: guns loaded and pointed at every potential person that's going 437 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: to walk on that door and rob you. I would 438 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: just think that some of these shopkeepers must have been 439 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: quite foolish for at least a minute, you know, with 440 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: to to allow this kind of stuff to keep happening. 441 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, I wonder it well. And also what 442 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: can you do if you have if you have a 443 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: small shop, are you supposed to continually employ five people 444 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: just for security on the off chance that something happens 445 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: one day? I mean, you're throwing money in a hole 446 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: until the robbery happens, and maybe wondering, well, Ben, well, no, well, casey, 447 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: this sounds like quite an adventure and it would make 448 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: for a great film, Like you guys are doing a 449 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: history show. Are the forty elephants still around today? No? No, 450 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: they're not. And then again, you don't even really hear 451 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: much about them at all until this book came out. 452 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: But in the mid twenties, there was a member of 453 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: the gang named Marie Britton who kind of on her own. 454 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: Through her actions in this kind of chain of events 455 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: led to the dissolution of this crime dynasty. I'm gonna 456 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: call it, to go so far as to call it dynasty. 457 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: I think it's a dynasty. Um, so, yeah, she had 458 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: fallen for a dude who was not a part of 459 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: this CD underworld, and you know, it's a network and 460 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: it's sort of like West Side Story, you know, where 461 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: it's like the Jets and the Sharks or whatever. You 462 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: fall in love with a shark. It's not okay with 463 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: the Jets, right, it was a little different. This person 464 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: was neither a shark nor a jet. This person was 465 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: outside of the world entirely. They were a square of 466 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: civilian exactly because Marie had fallen in love with uh, 467 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: someone outside of London's underworld. She had also broken one 468 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: of the gang's many internal rules thou shalt not date 469 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: a square. So she was called up to see Alice 470 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: and baby Face Maggie, and Marie was scared. She brought 471 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: along her father to protect her as her own muscle essentially, 472 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: and they, you know, we can speculate on the the 473 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: essence of their conversation. Alice and Maggie say, hey, you've 474 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: got to drop this guy. He's lame. He's not in 475 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: the he's not one of us. It's not one of us. 476 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: He's not in our our crime sororities or affiliated crime 477 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: fraternity e's and Marie says, no, I'm not gonna do it, 478 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: at which point Maggie whips out her aforementioned straight razor 479 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: and attacks Marie's father and they escape. Marie and her 480 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: father managed to escape, but Alice is not gonna let 481 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: this go. Alice sounds like a real tough cookie. She's 482 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: not not for the for the better necessarily. I mean, 483 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: I guess if she's she's the kind of person you 484 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: probably want in your corner. But if you make an 485 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: enemy of her, she she's gonna come at you with 486 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: a straight razor, right, and she's gonna come to your 487 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: house and start hurling rocks through the windows, uh and 488 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: then force entry into the home and search, um manically 489 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: for you. I'm I'm speaking of myself as though I 490 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: were Marie uh and and my father, and they're you know, 491 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: gonna ransack the play, um and in doing this attract 492 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: the attention of the police because they became a riot 493 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: basically not not stinging the police. They weren't on the 494 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: scene yet. So what what happens? What happens? Well, I mean, 495 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: they slashed their way through this house looking for Marie 496 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: and her father and ended up injuring some of the 497 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: other folks that were around, and the cops came. The 498 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: fuzz showed out because this is a whole mel a, 499 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, and um, the ringleader of the forty Elephants, 500 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: Alice Diamonds Diamond, Alice Annie Diamonds Diamond, Annie was it 501 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: was arrested and it didn't go well for her, No, 502 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: it didn't. They went to trial. They were easily convicted 503 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: Alice and Maggie. That is because you know, this is 504 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: baby face Maggie, baby face Maggie, because they clearly did this. 505 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: But the prosecution, despite the fact there were multiple members 506 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: of the gang attacking Marie's house, the prosecution only convicted 507 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: or only even charged Alice and Maggie because you see, 508 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: according to the rumors in the speculation, certain gentlemen in 509 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: high places of society did not want the details of 510 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: the black mail activities to come to light. So maybe 511 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: we can conjecture with a fair amount of certitude, maybe 512 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: there were a couple of people in the government or 513 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: high in business who said, look, you can convict the 514 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: two ringleaders, but Um Graytooth Desdemona can't go to court, 515 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: my wife can't find out. That's right. And you know, subsequently, 516 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: there was a vacuum left behind because Annie Diamond, Annie Diamond, 517 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: Alice whatever you wanna call her, the Diamonds, that um 518 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: was put away and sentenced to hard labor for how 519 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: many years? Well, let's see, she was imprisoned in nineteen 520 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: twenty five and the power vacuum has has a pretty 521 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: swift effect on the gang. By n thirty, they're falling 522 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: out of power, but people are still claiming membership of 523 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: the gang, and they're still shoplifting up into the nineteen fifties. 524 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: But it sure seems like Diamond Annie is the one 525 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: who kind of had that iron fisted control over the 526 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: organization to the point where they existed almost as a 527 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: central power in the London crime world. So when she 528 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: went away, it kind of reverted back to this more 529 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: petty fevery and they sort of lost their grip on 530 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: the underworld in general, right, right, And by the nineteen 531 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: fifties the gang had just lost too much power. Maggie 532 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: Hill ended up dying in nineteen forty nine. Don't know 533 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: where she was buried, but her best friend was Alice Diamond, obviously, 534 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: And who's the in Casino? Is it Joe Pesci? Who's 535 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: the wild card hys character? Okay, so Maggie Hill, by 536 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: way of comparison, is kind of the Joe Pesci of 537 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: this group, And there's not really Robert de Niro. If 538 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: there is, it's Alice. But she in court attempted to 539 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: attack members of the Court during the trial with a 540 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: pen who knows, who knows. She was like a like 541 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: a real life cartoon Tasmanian devil. But I also read 542 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: that she did not keep her composure when sentenced, that 543 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: she freaked out and like oh yeah, but like got 544 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: really upset. Was not stoic at all. It was very 545 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: like emotional and railed against the court. Yes, probably because 546 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: she saw more than a few people associated with their 547 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: crime ring in court. On the other side, they're pious 548 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: wigs on. We know that Alice Diamond passed the A 549 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: in a place called Southwark, close to the eastle Market 550 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty two. So this gang pretty much pretty 551 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: much exposed. It's death Knell is the last imprisonment, and 552 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,959 Speaker 1: then later the death of Diamond Dallas or Diamond. And 553 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: and that's not to say gangs don't continue in London today, 554 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: Oh no, for sure, but it's you know what the 555 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: thing about London too is you always hear about how 556 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: gangs there don't use there's not as much gun violence 557 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: because they're a lot harder to get. So you gotta 558 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: wonder if like the gang culture has kind of like 559 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: been influenced by this more kind of crafty gang culture 560 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: where it's more about like figuring stuff out and and 561 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: being sharp on your feet, you know what I mean, 562 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: as opposed to just like running in and blasting up 563 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: the place. Because you just don't hear about a lot 564 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: of gun violence in London, not not near as much 565 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: as there is in the US or some other countries. 566 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: But knives we have to keep in mind. One of 567 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: my old instructors used to always try to hammer this 568 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: into our heads that knives up close are more dangerous 569 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: than gotten so they they're probably walking around with some blades, 570 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: a blade or two. That's what I'm saying, though, to 571 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: wheeld a knife, you gotta be a little more brave 572 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: and a little more clever, and I'll have a little 573 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: more training kind of you know, you gotta know what 574 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: to do with it. Well said, Well said, And for 575 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: the record, I agree. So I guess I'm saying, way 576 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: to go London crime world at a little less lazy. 577 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if I if I agree with that, 578 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: of man, It's it's true though, while gangs still exist 579 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: and even thrive in some parts of London, there's not 580 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: really at this moment in time, something like the forty Elephants, 581 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: unless you want to say the banking cartels or gangs, 582 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: but they robbed people in a different way very much. 583 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: Do you like how I had to walk around the 584 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: block to throw that little piece of shade in it? 585 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, man, the city of London and what 586 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: it's sketchy, the whole sketchy. But that is the story 587 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: of the forty Thieves, the forty Elephants, Alice Diamond Diamond, 588 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: Alice Annie Diamonds, Diamond Annie, the all female crime syndicate 589 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: or dynasty which we think is appropriate here, who ran 590 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: shoplifting and somehow got away with it for almost two centuries. 591 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: I want to see their like internal records, you know, 592 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: for that two years, Like I want to see the 593 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: turnover of like who who was in charge? If any 594 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: of that was on paper, it probably wasn't It was 595 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: probably all just like oral. I wonder, yeah, because it's 596 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: it's a huge liability to have that laund but it's 597 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: prestigious and it would be It would also really help 598 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: out Marnie Dickens, who as of seventeen was developing a 599 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: series on the Forty Elephants for Forty Thieves for the BBC, 600 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: and it has the potential to be a Peaky Blind 601 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: Jers kind of thing. Did you ever see that show? 602 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: I started watching and I watched the first season and 603 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: I like it. Yeah, I saw I guess all the 604 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: first episode and I started wondering whether I should also 605 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: carry a razor around in my hat. Our boss Connall 606 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: really likes it a lot. I could see that. That's 607 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: classic Connal. Have you ever seen Peaky Blinder's casey No, 608 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: I don't think I've even heard of it. It Scott 609 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: Silly and Murphy in it. It's about a gang in Ireland. 610 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: I want to say, though, right, wasn't an Irish gang 611 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: like around the same time in the early twenties. Um, 612 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: I don't know that they were around for two years though? 613 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: So would you would you guys watch a show based 614 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: on this, uh this crime Syndicate? Yes? I would too. 615 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: I'm wondering who they would cast. Let us know who 616 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: you think would play an excellent Alice or Annie Diamond? 617 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: And who is unhinged enough to be a baby face 618 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: Maggie in your book? You know how I could pictures 619 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: being baby face Maggie. Who's that? Um? Melissa McCarthy, like 620 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: she's got some acting shot Man. She does all these 621 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: kind of goofy comedy movies. But I I think she's 622 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: got the she got the range. I think she's got 623 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: it man. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I'm gonna I'm 624 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: gonna think about this and come back. It is the 625 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: end of the episode, which means that if we are 626 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: still carrying on this tradition, my friend, it is time 627 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,479 Speaker 1: for us to give a comic book recommendation or two. Wow, 628 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna keep them keep going with this. Huh, well, 629 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: we said we would, we give it a shot. I 630 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: like it. Have you read Saga? Yes, by Brian Cavan. 631 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: I've only read a little bit of it, And again, 632 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm not as much of a comic head as you are, 633 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: but I have enough of an idea of what's out 634 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: there to give a recommendation for a couple episodes. But yeah, 635 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: check out Saga by Brian Cavan. He Uh, it's sort 636 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: of a sci fi star crossed space adventure. Was that 637 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: in a good way of a frank Yeah, that's great. Yeah, 638 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: it breaks a lot of genre rules. I think you'll 639 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: really enjoy it. He also wrote Why the Last Man, 640 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: which I did read every moment of About the Last Man? 641 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: On Earth after a disease kind of wipes out male 642 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: population and this one dude still around everyone else's female. 643 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: That's a good recommendation for this episode. Actually, um, that 644 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: was actually my way. Oh no, my bad. I only 645 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: said it because this and I believe that's being adapted 646 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,399 Speaker 1: into a big old series right right right, And for 647 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,240 Speaker 1: people who have yet to read it, this won't spoil 648 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: in anything. There is a character in Why the Last 649 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: Man named Agent three fifty five, and that comes from 650 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: a real and mysterious part of early US history. So 651 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about the real life 652 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: Agent three, check out our other shows. Stuff. They don't 653 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: want you to know. That was just recent one. Yeah yeah, yeah, 654 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: And I don't want to ruin it, but check it 655 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: out please. Uh. And in the meantime, always always want 656 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: to thank Casey Pegram, our superproducer. I don't know where 657 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: we'd be without you. We would we would sound like fools, 658 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: that's for sure. Um, So thank you to Casey, Thank 659 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: you to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Yes, and 660 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: thank you to Christopher hasiotis our research associate for this episode. 661 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: Thanks also to our other research associates, Eaves and Gabe, 662 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: Thank you knowl and thank you for listening. Folks. Hope 663 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: this I don't know. I don't want to say. I 664 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: hope this inspires people because I don't want us to 665 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: get characterized as the inspiration behind a new gang of 666 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: jewel thieves. You know what you do, you people out there, 667 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: whatever you think me to be the change you want 668 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: to see in the world. So also let us know 669 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: if you have found a story of another crime ring 670 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 1: this successful, because regardless of your opinions about the internal 671 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: workings or the consequences or their own strategies, there's no 672 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: arguing with it. They were very, very successful. You can 673 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: tell us about this on Instagram. You can find us 674 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: on Twitter. You can visit us on Facebook, where we'd 675 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: love to introduce you to your fellow Ridiculous historians on 676 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: our community page ridicul Hillis Historians