Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Tuesday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. I'm
Speaker 2: Jill Matthew and Washington, where we have nothing but questions
Speaker 2: about funding the government when this fiscal year ends in
Speaker 2: just a dozen days. Speaker McCarthy, as we told you
Speaker 2: trying to sell a stopgap funding measure. We were told
Speaker 2: there was a deal on this a couple of days
Speaker 2: ago to keep things running for about a month. Who's
Speaker 2: got some members of the Freedom Caucus on his side
Speaker 2: on this, including Chip Roy, who made the case on
Speaker 2: a conservative radio show on Fox.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, some of my colleagues don't think that's good enough.
Speaker 3: They want to hide behind some other rhetoric. They want
Speaker 3: to hide behind, Oh, we need to do more on
Speaker 3: DJ or do more on this or that any other.
Speaker 3: There's no Ukraine supplemental, there's no disaster emergency supplemental. Simply
Speaker 3: a strong bill that would do what we need to
Speaker 3: do to ratchet back the federal bureaucracy that's been an
Speaker 3: odds with the American people and force their hand on
Speaker 3: the border, which is a strong national message. I think
Speaker 3: that's a win.
Speaker 2: Some of his colleagues he refers to include Congresswoman Anna
Speaker 2: Paulina Luna, the Republican from Florida, showed up on a
Speaker 2: local TV interview and made this prediction.
Speaker 4: Sounds like, and I'm just going to inform everyone that's
Speaker 4: tuning in right now, it sounds like we're going to
Speaker 4: be going to at least a ten day government shutdown,
Speaker 4: but hopefully during that time people will actually be able
Speaker 4: to take time. Look, it's not going to affect those
Speaker 4: security it's not going to affect Medicare. But the fact
Speaker 4: is that we need to make sure that we are
Speaker 4: not one funding a bloated government, but also too that
Speaker 4: we're not funding a weaponized government. And so we have
Speaker 4: to address to as Congress.
Speaker 2: All right, so ten days shutdown, that's what she's hearing.
Speaker 2: What are you hearing so much for the continuing Resolution?
Speaker 2: Speaker McCarthy, Well, he's sounding a bit frustrated when talking
Speaker 2: with froms in the hallway.
Speaker 5: I've never seen anybody win to shut down.
Speaker 2: You only put the power in the hands of the administration.
Speaker 5: If you want to secure the border, passed homeland.
Speaker 2: If you want to make America strong and security, you
Speaker 2: passed the dog appropsed bill.
Speaker 6: If you're not willing to pass appropriation bills, and you're
Speaker 6: not willing to pass a continuing.
Speaker 2: Resolution to allow you to pass the rest appropriation bills,
Speaker 2: and you don't want an omnibus, I don't quite know
Speaker 2: what you want. I don't quite know what you want,
Speaker 2: all the while, a procedural vote to clear the path
Speaker 2: for a continuing resolution. This is just the rule, not
Speaker 2: The bill appears to have been pulled on the House
Speaker 2: floor today, So we're glad to have some time with
Speaker 2: the ranking member of the House Budget Committee, Congressman Brendan Boyle,
Speaker 2: is back with us. The Democrat from Pennsylvania will act
Speaker 2: literally as a news reporter, I guess in this case,
Speaker 2: because it's pretty difficult to follow the bad inside the
Speaker 2: Budget Committee. By the way, Republicans on the Budget Committee
Speaker 2: set to roll out their budget plan this afternoon. Congressman,
Speaker 2: it's good to have you back. Can we art with
Speaker 2: this procedural vote? Is this continuing resolution now in peril?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 6: I guess this is the debut of my reporting career.
Speaker 6: I can report to you that actually the CR vote
Speaker 6: was just pulled. The rule vote for the Republican partisan
Speaker 6: continuing resolution was just pulled from the calendar. So they
Speaker 6: don't even have the votes for their own. They don't
Speaker 6: even have The Republicans don't even have the vote for
Speaker 6: a partisan Republican continuing resolution, let alone one that would
Speaker 6: pass a Democratic Senate and be signed by a Democratic president.
Speaker 6: You know, this Republican civil war is what is causing
Speaker 6: this dysfunction. And if Kevin McCarthy would for once just
Speaker 6: stand up to his extreme MAGA base, what he would
Speaker 6: see is there's actually a strong bipartisan group maybe of
Speaker 6: three hundred and fifty members or so in the House
Speaker 6: of Representatives that can pass a compromise bill. We just
Speaker 6: saw it in June when we raised the debt ceiling
Speaker 6: and actually passed the piece of legislation that had parameters
Speaker 6: in there in terms of what next year's spending should
Speaker 6: look like. So Kevin McCarthy should quit reneging on that deal,
Speaker 6: go back to it, and whether it's now or a
Speaker 6: month from now, I think what ultimately passes the House
Speaker 6: and Senate will look a lot like what we passed
Speaker 6: in June.
Speaker 2: That sounds like you actually see a world in which
Speaker 2: there's no government shutdown, which I'd love to hear you
Speaker 2: speak to. But my goodness, what does it tell us
Speaker 2: when Chip Roy and others in the Freedom Caucus are
Speaker 2: actually trying to help Speaker McCarthy sell the idea of
Speaker 2: this stopgap plan, it's not his entire right flank. Things
Speaker 2: are getting confused. Congressman.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so the Republican Caucus is at war with itself.
Speaker 6: I mean all day yesterday you saw the Speaker call
Speaker 6: one of his members a quitter. People defended her. Another
Speaker 6: member is fighting with the Speaker. It's just been chaos, crisis,
Speaker 6: and confusion ever since that first week of January when
Speaker 6: it took them fifteen attempts to elect their own guy Speaker.
Speaker 2: Is the government going to shut down?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 6: I tend to think it's more likely than not, just
Speaker 6: because I do believe there are far more than five
Speaker 6: members of the House Republican Caucus that want a government
Speaker 6: shut down.
Speaker 5: But again, it can.
Speaker 6: Be avoided if Speaker McCarthy comes over to our side
Speaker 6: and is willing to compromise and is willing to do
Speaker 6: exactly what we did in June. And what I said
Speaker 6: before is that sooner or later, whether it's before September thirtieth,
Speaker 6: which I hope it is, or maybe more likely than not,
Speaker 6: after September thirtieth, I think the way we get out
Speaker 6: of this impass is passing a bipartisan resolution much like
Speaker 6: we did in June.
Speaker 2: Just talk of emotion to vacate, That's what mac Gates
Speaker 2: of Florida continues to say. It's clear that Speaker McCarthy's
Speaker 2: going to need Democratic votes to pass any real budget plan. Congressman,
Speaker 2: will Democrats help Speaker McCarthy survive a motion to vacate?
Speaker 6: If that happens, well, we're a few hypotheticals down the
Speaker 6: lane there. So we'll, as the former president likes to say,
Speaker 6: we'll see what happens. One of the few times I
Speaker 6: quote the former president. So I really couldn't predict or say,
Speaker 6: let's see how this budget situation plays itself out. Before
Speaker 6: we get into any hypothetical conversation about what Democrats would
Speaker 6: do in terms of emotion to vacate the chair, I
Speaker 6: will say what has really defined Kevin McCarthy's frankly miserable
Speaker 6: nine months a speaker is him constantly bending over backwards
Speaker 6: to attempt to win over the extreme MAGA members of
Speaker 6: his caucus, and they can never quite get there.
Speaker 2: With Kevin McCarthy, i'm compelled by this idea that you're
Speaker 2: actually going to be cutting funding more Thanublicans proposed if
Speaker 2: you take this walk, at least, the idea being if
Speaker 2: things expire without a budget agreement, there's an across the
Speaker 2: board one percent cut. As we've discussed before, that was
Speaker 2: a product of the debt ceiling limit deal, or at
Speaker 2: least what's left of it. Republicans were proposing, I believe
Speaker 2: a five percent cut roughly in what's coming in here
Speaker 2: non defense discretionary spending. So if no budget passes, the
Speaker 2: budget is actually cut by less based on what's already
Speaker 2: been baked into the cake here. Is that how you
Speaker 2: see it?
Speaker 5: So what you're talking about.
Speaker 6: As part of that agreement in June, there was this
Speaker 6: rather unique mechanism put in place that says, if we're
Speaker 6: still under a continuing resolution come January first, not come
Speaker 6: October first, that you would keep the government funded but
Speaker 6: at one percent last, both on defense and what is
Speaker 6: sometimes called non defense discretionary. But we're still a number
Speaker 6: of mon months before we would get to that point.
Speaker 2: All right, So give us a sense of what comes next.
Speaker 2: And I've got an eye on the visit by President
Speaker 2: Zelenski this week. At some point there's going to have
Speaker 2: to be a concerted debate about Ukraine funding also disaster
Speaker 2: relief funding, these supplemental requests that the White House has made.
Speaker 2: Does that visit help to unlock part of that story?
Speaker 6: Actually, I think again here's another issue where when it
Speaker 6: comes to standing up to putin supporting their allies in Ukraine,
Speaker 6: you have something like seventy percent support, seventy five percent
Speaker 6: support among the American people, maybe seventy seventy five percent
Speaker 6: support here in Congress.
Speaker 2: But again the.
Speaker 6: Extreme mega members that are really driving the bus when
Speaker 6: it comes to the House Republicans, they're against it. So
Speaker 6: the Ukraine funding issue I think is going to be
Speaker 6: quite challenged. It won't be in the Senate, where there
Speaker 6: is frankly stronger Republican leadership, and I think you have
Speaker 6: a big bipartisan vote over there. To continue to stand
Speaker 6: up to PUT and then make sure our allies have
Speaker 6: what they need, you would have a strong bipartisan vote
Speaker 6: here in the House. If Kevin McCarthy is willing to
Speaker 6: stand up to his extreme mag of members and put
Speaker 6: that on the House floor right now, he's just not
Speaker 6: willing to do it.
Speaker 2: So there's an appetite among Republican leadership elsewhere, certainly in
Speaker 2: the Senate. So you do wonder how this pans out.
Speaker 2: With a few voices here, there seems to be a
Speaker 2: pretty broad majority actually supporting continued support for Ukraine. There's
Speaker 2: one thing I'd like to ask you about that doesn't
Speaker 2: come up enough, though, Congressman, and that's the so called
Speaker 2: childcare cliff, the expiration of funding pandemic era funding for
Speaker 2: childcare services now sunsetting and leaving tens of thousands potentially
Speaker 2: of childcare programs about to expire. President Biden, with your support,
Speaker 2: did not get the expanded childcare tax credit in the
Speaker 2: Build Back Better debate that some of us have blocked
Speaker 2: out at this point. God, it was a protracted debate
Speaker 2: that en up with the IRA, But I wonder if
Speaker 2: childcare is going to be on the table in this debate.
Speaker 5: It needs to be.
Speaker 6: You know, there were a couple provisions that we did
Speaker 6: during the pandemic that made such a big difference. One
Speaker 6: of them was the expanded child tax credit that lifted
Speaker 6: so many millions of children and families out of poverty.
Speaker 6: We saw this past week the devastating impact of that
Speaker 6: expiring and more children now below the poverty line. And
Speaker 6: then likewise, when it comes to the childcare crisis, this
Speaker 6: is yet another I mean, I voted to make that
Speaker 6: permanent as part of what was originally the Build Back
Speaker 6: Better Act. It's a tragedy that the Senate then wasn't
Speaker 6: able to pass it. So I'm part of a group
Speaker 6: that's really attempting to put this on the forefront of
Speaker 6: our agenda, and I do want to make sure as
Speaker 6: part of these budget negotiations that we address what is
Speaker 6: a crisis and frankly, affects not just those families that
Speaker 6: need childcare, but it affects our overall economy. It holds
Speaker 6: back the full growth potential of our economy.
Speaker 2: Before we let you go, Congressman, will Democrats make an
Speaker 2: ally of Speaker McCarthy? Will Speaker McCarthy make an ally
Speaker 2: of Democrats? Through the process of this budget debate, it
Speaker 2: appears one cannot operate without the other.
Speaker 6: Well, as I mentioned before, Kevin McCarthy seems far more
Speaker 6: interested in pandering to every last mega member of his caucus.
Speaker 2: That's why I ask you if it's possible or maybe rather.
Speaker 6: Than working, rather than working with Democrats, the one and
Speaker 6: only time in the last nine months he was able
Speaker 6: to reach across the aisle and work with Democrats, we
Speaker 6: saw a big bipartisan success when we passed that budget
Speaker 6: agreement raise the debt ceiling. Eighty percent of House Democrats
Speaker 6: voted for it, myself included, sixty seven percent of House
Speaker 6: Republicans voted for it. Kevin McCarthy gets back to that
Speaker 6: sort of bipartisanship, They'll always be a willing partner on
Speaker 6: our side of the aisle.
Speaker 2: It's good to have you back. Congressman. Thanks for being
Speaker 2: with a son Bloomberg. He's the ranking member on the
Speaker 2: House Budget Committee in the throes of this debate, Congressman
Speaker 2: Brendan Boyle, Democrat from Pennsylvania. As we assemble our panel,
Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanseno are with us for the hour.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors with a lot to talk about today,
Speaker 2: and I'd love to have time here to hear from
Speaker 2: both of you on this genie. The view of a
Speaker 2: Democrat in this world, Brendan Boyle sounds like one that
Speaker 2: obviously in the minority, doesn't have a lot to say.
Speaker 2: And what's about to happen next. How can Democrats affect
Speaker 2: the outcome of this debate?
Speaker 7: You know, I don't think there's much they can do
Speaker 7: at this point. But of course, if the Speaker wants
Speaker 7: to get something past, and he's going to have to
Speaker 7: look to Hakeem Jeffries, he's going to have to look
Speaker 7: to the Democrats, and he is going to have to
Speaker 7: work with them. And you know, I think the fear
Speaker 7: of some of us is that the decision to throw
Speaker 7: an impeachment inquiry into this mess in an effort to
Speaker 7: distract his card right conservative end has made that a
Speaker 7: little bit tougher. But I do think End, whether it's
Speaker 7: to save his job, whether is it to pass a
Speaker 7: continuing resolution, hopefully to fund the government, he will be
Speaker 7: able to count on Democrats to do that. But they're
Speaker 7: going to have to do what has to happen. They're
Speaker 7: going to have to negotiate that out, and I think
Speaker 7: Democrats will be prepared to do that. But I think
Speaker 7: the representative of the Congressman is right, you don't want
Speaker 7: to talk about that and insert yourself into a family
Speaker 7: civil war at this point. But when it comes up
Speaker 7: and McCarthy decides to come to them, I think that
Speaker 7: the leadership on the Democratic side and enough Democrats will
Speaker 7: be there.
Speaker 2: Ricky, the Congressman didn't have much good to say about
Speaker 2: Speaker McCarthy right now, and I did give him an
Speaker 2: opportunity to come back around on that is his criticism, correct,
Speaker 2: Or will Democrats find themselves at the table with Kevin
Speaker 2: McCarthy completing a final product at some point?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 9: I thought Congressman Boyle actually kind of sounded like he
Speaker 9: felt sorry for Kevin McCarthy because he is kind of
Speaker 9: being held hostage by one of the wings of his caucus,
Speaker 9: and the caucus is an open revolt, and he's trying
Speaker 9: to get a few things done, like actually not shutting
Speaker 9: down the government. In today's Newsmaker, that Congressman just talked
Speaker 9: about that the rule that was going to set up
Speaker 9: the vote for the continuing resolution got pulled, means they
Speaker 9: don't have the votes for it, which means that you're
Speaker 9: going to have to wait and see what happens next.
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: Maybe the problem solvers can fix it, right, There's got
Speaker 2: to be a caucus somewhere in this House, the Bipartisan
Speaker 2: Problem Solvers Caucus working up report the a clean CR
Speaker 2: sixteen billion dollars disaster relief. But none of the Republican
Speaker 2: concessions that we've been hearing about is that the plan B.
Speaker 2: There are so many families to please here in the House,
Speaker 2: it's getting a little bit confusing. Of course, a lot
Speaker 2: of this hinges on President Zelensky in support for Ukraine. Incidentally,
Speaker 2: we're going to be hearing from President Vladimir Zelensky live
Speaker 2: from the un He'll be standing in front of the
Speaker 2: Green Marble a short time from now. We'll bring you
Speaker 2: those remarks on Bloomberg Radio here on YouTube as well
Speaker 2: when they happen. Incidentally, join us on YouTube if you
Speaker 2: want to be in the studio here search Bloomberg Global News.
Speaker 2: Our cameras are lit speaking McCarthy talking about this, by
Speaker 2: the way, knowing President Zelenski's coming to Washington after that speech,
Speaker 2: He'll be here later this week to meet with the president,
Speaker 2: go to the hill, meet with the leaders, Like, mister speaker.
Speaker 5: Is Zelenski elected to Congress? Is he our president? I
Speaker 5: don't think I've committing I have questions for him. Where's
Speaker 5: the accountability and the money we already spit? What is
Speaker 5: the plan for victory?
Speaker 2: That sounds like a fun meeting. Let's reassemble the panel,
Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano or here Bloomberg Politics contributors.
Speaker 2: What do you think of that?
Speaker 1: Rick?
Speaker 2: It's a lot different when someone's sitting in front of you.
Speaker 2: But McCarthy does not sound like he's looking forward to
Speaker 2: talking to President Zelenski says, what is he a member
Speaker 2: of Congress? What's that conversation going to be?
Speaker 8: Like?
Speaker 9: Yeah, no, I mean, I'm actually stunned that he would
Speaker 9: take this kind of chip on your shoulder attitude.
Speaker 5: What's your plan for victory?
Speaker 9: I hope Zelenski tells him, I'm going to kill as
Speaker 9: many Russians as I can get my hands on. I mean, like,
Speaker 9: what in the world does he think is happening in
Speaker 9: the Ukraine.
Speaker 5: There's a war going.
Speaker 9: On, and it's a war that they are fighting, not us,
Speaker 9: And the most we've done is to put some of
Speaker 9: our treasure to work. And I just find it unbelievable
Speaker 9: that he doesn't have more sensibility around a guy who's
Speaker 9: in the middle of a shooting war with Russians. But look,
Speaker 9: I mean, he's got bigger problems than Zelenski. You know,
Speaker 9: the reality is, is he still going to be speaker
Speaker 9: when Zelensky gets to town. I don't think it's an
Speaker 9: academic question anymore. And so Zelenski actually may survive longer
Speaker 9: than he does.
Speaker 2: That's pretty remarkable. Genie. I don't know your thought on this,
Speaker 2: but it is different when somebody is coming in person
Speaker 2: to ask you for something, as opposed to ping ponging
Speaker 2: around the media and a reporter is going to ask
Speaker 2: you this in the hallway and you have to sound
Speaker 2: like a tough guy to please certain constituencies. Which one
Speaker 2: do you think shows up at the meeting?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that all depends to your point on
Speaker 7: whether that meeting is in public or private. I think
Speaker 7: in private Kevin McCarthy will be incredibly respectful to Zelensky.
Speaker 7: He understands the situation over there full well. But this
Speaker 7: is the Kevin McCarthy that we have seen since he
Speaker 7: was narrowly elected speaker, and it is a you know,
Speaker 7: a speaker with very little power to run his own caucus,
Speaker 7: and so he goes out and he says outrageous things
Speaker 7: like he said about Zelensky. Is he president? Is he
Speaker 7: a member of Congress? And then he'll say something else privately.
Speaker 7: It's the same thing he said after January sixth, when
Speaker 7: he chastised the president rightly so for his role on
Speaker 7: that and suggested he can't continue to serve and then,
Speaker 7: of course, not that long after, went down to mar
Speaker 7: A Lago hat in hand. So you know, this is
Speaker 7: Kevin McCarthy in the position he finds himself in as
Speaker 7: he desperately tries to maintain this job. And I think
Speaker 7: the question that has to be asked about Kevin McCarthy
Speaker 7: to Kevin McCarthy rather is is this job worth it?
Speaker 7: You have to be able at some point to stand
Speaker 7: up for what you believe. And with Kevin McCarthy, we
Speaker 7: see him say one thing privately, one thing publicly, one
Speaker 7: thing to Zelenski, one thing to reporters, one thing to
Speaker 7: his caucus. I mean it goes on and on, and
Speaker 7: at some point he may not have this job much
Speaker 7: longer because he's been too cute by half. And I
Speaker 7: think it's an awful shame for Kevin McCarthy to be
Speaker 7: in this situation.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys agree on that one. As we consider
Speaker 2: what's happening all the while in Detroit, I've got to
Speaker 2: ask you both about the strike here as we stand
Speaker 2: by to hear from President Zelenski at the un Friday
Speaker 2: deadline noontime high noon, says Sean Fain. The UAW, as
Speaker 2: I read on the terminal, says more of its members
Speaker 2: will go on strike at all three of the Big
Speaker 2: Three if deals are not in place by then maybe
Speaker 2: we haven't really even seen the hardball yet. Rick, what
Speaker 2: do you think does a deal emerge ahead of the deadline?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I actually think the UAW did a brilliant move.
Speaker 9: I hate to give them credit for this, but the
Speaker 9: standing strike, you know, only three locations, a lot more
Speaker 9: leverage to do.
Speaker 5: Use the week very effectively to draw.
Speaker 9: A distinction between the ultra rich executives and the you know,
Speaker 9: blue collar work that are making the cars. I think
Speaker 9: he's played this week as best as any labor union
Speaker 9: leader I've ever seen, splitting the politics, having Donald Trump,
Speaker 9: you know, basically looking like he's trying to directly appeal
Speaker 9: to UAW workers, and the President, who seems outflanked by that,
Speaker 9: is caught in between wanting the economy to move forward
Speaker 9: but not wanting to look like he's helping a bunch
Speaker 9: of rich executives. I mean, this is a mess of
Speaker 9: effort proportion, and I think the UAW seems to have
Speaker 9: everybody on the run. I wouldn't be surprised if they
Speaker 9: don't increase the strike after the Friday deadline. I doubt
Speaker 9: if they're going to get a deal done because I
Speaker 9: don't think there's enough pain in the.
Speaker 5: Corporate boardroom right now.
Speaker 9: But after Friday, I think all bets are off and
Speaker 9: you could probably see something happen pretty quick.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: The debate among Republicans is fascinating to me, Jennie, and
Speaker 2: as a Democrat who supports unionized labor, I would love
Speaker 2: your take on this JD vance with an op ed
Speaker 2: and the Toledo Blade with this moment Hero, the UAW
Speaker 2: leadership has an opportunity they cannot let slip through their grasp.
Speaker 2: Should use their leverage and force the president to stop
Speaker 2: subsidizing an industry that benefits communist China more than it
Speaker 2: does American workers. That's an op ed that's resonating today.
Speaker 2: On the other side of things, and by the way,
Speaker 2: Rick also referred to another big part of this. It's
Speaker 2: Donald Trump going to speak to UAW members in Detroit
Speaker 2: instead of attending the Republican presidential debate next week. On
Speaker 2: the other end is Senator Tim Scott. Imagine this as
Speaker 2: Donald Trump courts an endorsement from the UAW, Tim Scott
Speaker 2: calls up Ronald Reagan and talks about potentially firing unionized
Speaker 2: workers who go on strike, with memories of those were,
Speaker 2: of course, federal workers air traffic controllers back in the eighties.
Speaker 2: Here's Tim Scott on the campaign trail.
Speaker 5: Donald Raigny gave.
Speaker 1: As a great example the guen federal voice side must
Speaker 1: write that you start your fire.
Speaker 5: Civil concept to me to they said that week. If
Speaker 5: you said it once again.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you're striking your fire. Genie, which one of these
Speaker 2: approaches of all three might stick for Republicans.
Speaker 7: You know, I have to say here, I think JD.
Speaker 7: Vance and Donald Trump's political instincts are much better than
Speaker 7: Tim Scott's on this issue. They understand the reality is
Speaker 7: the Republicans had the White House in twenty sixteen because
Speaker 7: they were able to make inroads in the Midwest. Michigan
Speaker 7: is critical in twenty twenty four. Joe Biden narrowly captures
Speaker 7: it in twenty If he loses it, Donald Trump or
Speaker 7: whoever the Republican nominee is, is likely to win. And
Speaker 7: it seems to me that Donald Trump understands that full well.
Speaker 7: He speaks a language that appeals to workers on the line.
Speaker 7: The problem is his policies haven't followed suit. So while
Speaker 7: he's trying to use this cudgel of China and he's
Speaker 7: trying to talk about to EVS, I think Sean Fain
Speaker 7: is right to point out that you have a millionaire
Speaker 7: billionaire talking to people on the line about what he's
Speaker 7: going to do for them. It falls flat from the
Speaker 7: perspective of the leadership of the UAW. But I think
Speaker 7: Trump is right, and so is Advance to try to
Speaker 7: make this play. I think Scott's got to wake up
Speaker 7: to the reality of the way the electoral College works
Speaker 7: this day, and this is a really important constituency to
Speaker 7: appeal to and vance and Trump know that.
Speaker 2: How does President Biden answer this challenge then, Rick, does
Speaker 2: he show up on the picket line? Does he come
Speaker 2: up with some sort of special one time unemployment insurance
Speaker 2: for workers? How does he seize the moment?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think he's I think he's got to have
Speaker 9: some of those options in his toolkit right now. And
Speaker 9: I'd say he's got less than a week because he
Speaker 9: wants to do whatever he's going to do to help
Speaker 9: benefit the UAW workers.
Speaker 5: He's got to do it before.
Speaker 9: Donald Trump shows up there, because Donald Trump will tell
Speaker 9: him what they want to hear and with no real
Speaker 9: intention of doing anything about it. But I think it's
Speaker 9: a broader issue here, so like how far the Republican
Speaker 9: Party has come from supporting free enterprise and corporate America.
Speaker 9: I mean, these corporations have a friend. I mean, look
Speaker 9: at the Santas. He's out there attacking corporations every day.
Speaker 9: You know, they're too woke, they're too involved in politics.
Speaker 9: And you know, here are politicians now getting involved in
Speaker 9: labor strikes, not on the side of the chief executives
Speaker 9: in the boardroom, but on the side of the union organizers.
Speaker 5: It's it's really amazing.
Speaker 9: And so if Corporate America gets one message out of this,
Speaker 9: like they need to take a look at what kind
Speaker 9: of politics they're playing, because they don't have a friend
Speaker 9: at the in the game right now and they need
Speaker 9: to go find some.
Speaker 2: It's kind of amazing. Republicans are now the party of union,
Speaker 2: labor and tariffs. What's going on?
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch us
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Speaker 2: We have heard from President Biden. He spoke a bit earlier,
Speaker 2: a couple of hours ago. As we see the headline
Speaker 2: on the terminal, Biden urges you when to stand by
Speaker 2: Ukraine as allies see long war ahead. Of course, this
Speaker 2: was for an audience around the world, not just those
Speaker 2: at the United Nations General Assembly and certainly those in
Speaker 2: the US House of Representatives.
Speaker 10: If you allow Ukraine to be carved up, is the
Speaker 10: independence of any nation secure. I right respectfully suggest the answers, No,
Speaker 10: we have to stand up to this negative aggression today
Speaker 10: and deter other would be aggressiors tomorrow. That's why the
Speaker 10: United States, together with our allies and partners around the world,
Speaker 10: will continue to stand with the brave people of Ukraine
Speaker 10: as they defend their sovereignty, an terrotorial integrity, and their freedom.
Speaker 2: Applause for the American president today, standing up to aggression today,
Speaker 2: deterring aggression tomorrow, the message, let's reassemble our pan Well,
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis or Bloomberg Politics contributors. Is
Speaker 2: that the case, Genie, that's essentially the argument he's been
Speaker 2: making for nineteen months. Or does he need to start
Speaker 2: altering that argument to tailor certain interests here in the Capitol?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I mean, I think it's an important argument, and I
Speaker 7: thought the speech today was fairly good. I thought it
Speaker 7: was very strong on the issue you talked the most about,
Speaker 7: which was obviously Ukraine. I do think he needs to
Speaker 7: be cognizant of not just the world audience and that
Speaker 7: is critical, but also the audience here at home. And
Speaker 7: I've long thought he thought rather he needs to do
Speaker 7: a better job, and it's a hard job of letting
Speaker 7: Americans know why they have an interest in continuing this
Speaker 7: level of monetary support for Ukraine, because this is where
Speaker 7: we see poll numbers dipping, not just with Republicans but
Speaker 7: with Democrats. And it's not that the American people don't
Speaker 7: support Ukraine in the fight against Russia. It's that there
Speaker 7: earned about sending resources, and I think there's an important
Speaker 7: argument to be made about why that's in our interest.
Speaker 7: But I think that should be a big part of
Speaker 7: the focus. So I thought he missed a little bit
Speaker 7: of that today, But overall, on Ukraine, I thought it
Speaker 7: was a good speech. Not so much on climate change,
Speaker 7: where I think he's going to get hit very hard
Speaker 7: and he already has, but I think he'll get hit
Speaker 7: harder by activists and that's a problem for him domestically,
Speaker 7: let alone for people around the world.
Speaker 2: Well, Genie does remind us this speech was about a
Speaker 2: lot more than Ukraine. I'm zeroing in on that point
Speaker 2: as we're kind of talking about the budget debate here
Speaker 2: in Washington, but knowing that President Zelenski will be here, Rick,
Speaker 2: does this set the table for what's going to be
Speaker 2: a much Louder conversation at the end of this week.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I actually.
Speaker 9: Shockingly agree with Genie on the need for Biden to
Speaker 9: have done more to lay out why the American people
Speaker 9: should care about Vladimir Zelenski and the Ukrainians. But I
Speaker 9: think it should have started with a full throat at attack,
Speaker 9: not on Russia. Russia didn't start the war. Russia didn't invade.
Speaker 5: Vladimir Putin did. And I'm just stunned that Vladimir Putin
Speaker 5: is basically getting away with a buye from, you know,
Speaker 5: from the President of United States and a speech to
Speaker 5: the UN.
Speaker 9: Here's a guy who's like running out of troops and
Speaker 9: running out of AMMO, so he's going around to every
Speaker 9: two bit dictator in the world he can find, begging
Speaker 9: for armors that he can use in a country.
Speaker 5: That he's invaded.
Speaker 9: I mean, I think it could have been a much
Speaker 9: more ferocious speech by the President and that would remind
Speaker 9: everybody in Congress you have one side to be on
Speaker 9: Vladimir Putins or ours, And I think when you put
Speaker 9: it in the that context, there are a lot of
Speaker 9: people who'll be voting yes on a funding bill.
Speaker 5: For the Ukraine.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a reality check for the naysayers here in Washington,
Speaker 2: certainly Genie the It's an interesting debate here that we're hearing,
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure what your expectations are later on
Speaker 2: this week, But should funding the government rely on funding
Speaker 2: for Ukraine here or should Congress be handling this as
Speaker 2: a separate matter.
Speaker 7: You know, I do think it makes sense to handle
Speaker 7: it with the emergency aid that needs to go out
Speaker 7: to so many places impacted, including Hawaii, which hasn't gotten
Speaker 7: as much attention of late, and other places that have
Speaker 7: experienced that. So I do think it makes sense to
Speaker 7: do it that way. You know, I think the reality
Speaker 7: is and I love how Rick is saying shocking when
Speaker 7: he agrees with me. Rick agrees with me more than
Speaker 7: he wants to admit. But you know, I do think
Speaker 7: the problem that the Republicans have is when you talk
Speaker 7: about Putin, you have a small group, but a sizeable, powerful,
Speaker 7: loud group in the Republican Party who are fine with
Speaker 7: being together with strong men like Vladimir Putin, and that
Speaker 7: comes right from the top, people like Donald Trump. So
Speaker 7: you know, that's a problem for the Republican Party, but
Speaker 7: for Democrats in the administration. I agree that would be
Speaker 7: a tactic for Biden's sake, But I say I think
Speaker 7: most importantly, he's got to make the case, as he's
Speaker 7: tried to make to his credit throughout his presidency, that
Speaker 7: this is a struggle much bigger than Putin or Russia.
Speaker 7: It is a struggle between the autocrats of the world,
Speaker 7: and when we say they are winning, the data supports that,
Speaker 7: and democracies like ours, which are in enormous up people
Speaker 7: look at what's happening with Modi and India and Canada today.
Speaker 7: We haven't even talked about that. I mean, democracies are
Speaker 7: in peril. We have an obligation in the United States
Speaker 7: to lead us through that for people around the world.
Speaker 7: And that's a message I think Biden's got to send
Speaker 7: to Americans at home and democrats small d around the world.
Speaker 7: And it's far bigger than any sort of bipartisan or
Speaker 7: partisan bickering in the US.
Speaker 2: Rick, do you buy the argument that it's advantage Biden
Speaker 2: because so many other world leaders are not there? You
Speaker 2: already mentioned Putin president, She's not there, Macron's not there,
Speaker 2: asun it's not there. Does that help him maneuver more
Speaker 2: effectively at the general Assembly.
Speaker 9: Well, I certainly think it sends a message that the
Speaker 9: US is willing to engage when others are stuck at home,
Speaker 9: either because of their own crisises or that they really
Speaker 9: don't think it's a welcoming venue for them.
Speaker 5: So look what he's done.
Speaker 9: He's gotten this really cool Atlantic Council that he's put together,
Speaker 9: that he announced I think on the very first day.
Speaker 5: He's meeting with the Central Republics today.
Speaker 9: Now, any time you can get the stands in one
Speaker 9: room without Russia hovering over it is a good day.
Speaker 9: And so I think that's a really important place in
Speaker 9: the region, you know. And he's spending more time with
Speaker 9: the Global South. We've talked a lot about that and
Speaker 9: how important it is in the competition we're having with China.
Speaker 9: So yeah, I mean, I think it's a good use
Speaker 9: of his time. Frankly, I think he ought to stay
Speaker 9: in the work and keep doing it. Don't come back
Speaker 9: to Washington for a while, because this town is not
Speaker 9: set for him right now.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you he's coming back, and this is
Speaker 2: going to be interesting Thursday Friday. It's all anyone will
Speaker 2: be talking about here is funding for Ukraine and how
Speaker 2: it plays into a potential shutdown. Great insights as always
Speaker 2: from Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano. They do agree fairly often.
Speaker 2: Our signature panel here on sound On this is always
Speaker 2: who we want to hear from when news hits that matters.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast.
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Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: As we spend some time with Jane Harman at the
Speaker 2: table again share of the Commission on the National Defense
Speaker 2: Strategy for ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Jane,
Speaker 2: I guess, prescient, you're timing to sit here with us
Speaker 2: as we all listen together to President Zelenski today, in
Speaker 2: the time that you have with us, connect the dots
Speaker 2: between this speech and the very difficult conversation it appears
Speaker 2: that we're about to have in Washington upon his visit
Speaker 2: this week.
Speaker 8: Well, this is as I understand, it's Celenski's first speech
Speaker 8: to the UN General Assembly since Russia illegally invaded his country.
Speaker 8: This will be his second speech, well, not to Congress
Speaker 8: as a formal entity, but to members of Congress and
Speaker 8: another meeting with President Biden. The Washington part will be tougher,
Speaker 8: no question, there's a friendly audience at the UN. Russia
Speaker 8: is not present. The four veto wielding members of the
Speaker 8: UN General Assembly other than the US are not there.
Speaker 8: So there are one hundred and fifty countries well represented there,
Speaker 8: many of whom are recepted to his message, although some
Speaker 8: are not and think that there are higher priorities here.
Speaker 8: He's going to pitch one thing, which is supplemental funding
Speaker 8: for his country. Biden is strongly for that. I certainly
Speaker 8: am strongly for that. Some lead Republicans in the Senate,
Speaker 8: like Mitch McConnell, are strongly for it. But Kevin McCarthy
Speaker 8: has basically no room to maneuver and is holding his
Speaker 8: cards close. And it's not clear yet what will happen.
Speaker 8: I predict that funding will occur. I can't imagine the
Speaker 8: US walking back on commitments to not a NATO member,
Speaker 8: but a NATO neighbor. After all, it's gone on, so
Speaker 8: I think Congress weekly but eventually we'll get there in
Speaker 8: the next period.
Speaker 11: But if it is weekly that they get there, if
Speaker 11: it takes a lot of arm wrestling and twisting and
Speaker 11: it's difficult to get done, it shows that there is
Speaker 11: a waning appetite, at least in the US in some
Speaker 11: parts of it to continue supporting Ukraine, and that has
Speaker 11: to ripple around the rest of the world as Biden
Speaker 11: is pitching to other countries to help.
Speaker 8: Well, it's crucial that we be there. More than half
Speaker 8: the funding of Ukraine by NATO comes from the US.
Speaker 8: We have led, Biden has led. Biden deserves enormous credit
Speaker 8: for restoring our alliances, something he talked about at the
Speaker 8: UN earlier today. He really does. But I think this
Speaker 8: is a manifestation of a broken Congress. There's no agreement
Speaker 8: on a budget. People want to reign in spending. This
Speaker 8: is the wrong spending to rein in. I want to
Speaker 8: reign in spending too. While in Congress for nine terms,
Speaker 8: I was a so called blue dog. I'm for fiscal responsibility,
Speaker 8: but this is not responsible to walk back on this war.
Speaker 8: I mean, after all, if we want to contain authoritarian
Speaker 8: aggression in the world, the Ukrainians have to win and
Speaker 8: we have to help them.
Speaker 2: Win, if you know, if anyone does. Everyone's a tough
Speaker 2: guy when they're on a remote interview with an ear piece,
Speaker 2: or they're yelling at somebody by way of an op ed,
Speaker 2: or they're on a cable news network that agrees with them.
Speaker 2: What happens when Speaker McCarthy is standing in the room
Speaker 2: with President Selenski. That's the success that he had upon
Speaker 2: his last visit when he addressed a joint session of Congress.
Speaker 2: Can he recreate that?
Speaker 8: I think it'll be hard. I think he has made
Speaker 8: a deal with the devil, meaning that he has absolutely
Speaker 8: no room to maneuver as speaker. I think in his
Speaker 8: heart he knows what the right thing to do, so
Speaker 8: there's no persuasion. And I don't think he's in favor
Speaker 8: of closing the government either. He is in favor of
Speaker 8: cutting spending, but again, so am I and so are
Speaker 8: lots of people, but not this way. And I don't
Speaker 8: know what he'll say. I think it's going to be
Speaker 8: a very awkward moment for him.
Speaker 11: While we're looking ahead to the speech Selenski is going
Speaker 11: to give in Washington. That speech at the UN General
Speaker 11: Assembly is ongoing. He just said we must act united
Speaker 11: to defeat the aggressor and fight all of these challenges.
Speaker 11: And Jane, I'd like to point to a Bloomberg opinion
Speaker 11: piece by one of our colleagues, Andrea's Kluth today who
Speaker 11: said Moscow's genocidal invasion of Ukraine is person xcisely the
Speaker 11: sort of war of aggression that the UN was meant
Speaker 11: to prevent and punish. And yet much of the world
Speaker 11: still refuses to line up behind Biden in the West
Speaker 11: against Moscow. Does do you an't even really serve a
Speaker 11: real purpose? If that is true, it's a convening authority.
Speaker 11: And look at all the folks who showed up in
Speaker 11: New York. I'm sure the traffic is impassable. Showing up
Speaker 11: there myself in another.
Speaker 8: Day, I'll pay for that. But it is not using
Speaker 8: all the power that it could use. I mean, just
Speaker 8: think about and I think Zelensky was mentioning this, the
Speaker 8: weaponizing of food, the inability of Ukraine to get its
Speaker 8: ships out because of the Russian blockade. Where's the UN?
Speaker 8: The UN could be escorting those ships. This is a
Speaker 8: legitimate question about whether NATO ought to be stepping up
Speaker 8: because three NATO countries border the Black Sea, which is
Speaker 8: a not territory of Russia. So I don't know what
Speaker 8: will happen, but I would love to hear the UN
Speaker 8: itself make some more money uscular comments about Ukraine, and
Speaker 8: I think this would be a good opportunity.
Speaker 2: I'd love your thoughts before you leave us. On the
Speaker 2: news that was driving the day at this time yesterday,
Speaker 2: and that was a prisoner swap with Iran, Secretary of
Speaker 2: State B. Lincoln spoke. I won't say emotionally, but he
Speaker 2: was clearly touched by his conversations. We spoke with them
Speaker 2: moments after they were released. There are Republicans who are
Speaker 2: criticizing this deal heavily. Ted Cruz, senator from Texas, was
Speaker 2: on with us last night who said this was essentially
Speaker 2: the equivalent of a secret nuclear deal with Iran by
Speaker 2: unlocking this money, the six billion dollars that was involved
Speaker 2: in the transaction.
Speaker 5: How would you respond to him, that's a little overblown.
Speaker 8: I mean, getting our prisoners back who are unjustly held
Speaker 8: is a high priority for the US. My understanding is
Speaker 8: we do have means to monitor how this money will
Speaker 8: be spent. This is money, This isn't our money. This
Speaker 8: is money that has been embargoed. That is their money,
Speaker 8: so let's go there. But if it's spent on help
Speaker 8: for the Ukrainian people, that's in our interest. We would
Speaker 8: like the Ukrainian people to know our issue isn't with them,
Speaker 8: it's with their totalitarian government, especially Theresian Yes, with the
Speaker 8: Ukrainian with the Iranian pardon me, pardon me, with the
Speaker 8: Ukrainian people, with the Iranian people, we're talking about our issue.
Speaker 8: Our issue is not with the Iranian people. It's with
Speaker 8: their repressive government, which, among other things, is is doing
Speaker 8: dreadful things to women and women's rights. And as the
Speaker 8: chair of the Freedom House Board, I'm very, very happy
Speaker 8: that we are doing everything we can to protect those women.
Speaker 2: So that was the right deal, You'd do it again.
Speaker 8: I think we need to know a little more, but yes,
Speaker 8: that was in the right direction, and I think Tony
Speaker 8: Blincoln being emotional is also right. I think this is
Speaker 8: a big deal to the American government. Our soft power matters,
Speaker 8: it's not just hard power, and showing that we care
Speaker 8: about Americans and human beings detained all over the world
Speaker 8: is a very high priority for us, and it persuades
Speaker 8: others to support not President Biden per se, although I do,
Speaker 8: but to support policies which bring the world back together
Speaker 8: in favor of freedom and democracy.
Speaker 2: We're glad you could join us. Jan good luck in
Speaker 2: New York this week. Travel safe, we look forward to
Speaker 2: talking again. Jane Harmon, as always, welcome here at the table.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the sound On podcast. Make sure
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