1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: All I can do is communicate both to the American 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: public and to the individuals seeking protection that they need 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: to wait. We are not saying don't come. We are 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: saying don't come now, because we will be able to 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: deliver um safe and orderly process to them as quickly 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: as possible. What point does it become a crisis? Well, 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: I would say, I don't think we need to meet 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: your bar of what we need to call it. We 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: had the Secretary of Homeland Security yesterday conveying it's a challenge. 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: We're going to approach this without labeling. We're going to 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: approach this with policy, with humanity, uh, and with a 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: focus on what we can do to keep these kids safe. 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: So I was struck by a level of what seemed 14 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: to me at the time dumbness yesterday of arguing over 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: whether something is a crisis or a challenge. Right, But 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: then I did see some quotes come forward from people 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: that called it a crisis when it was at a 18 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: much lower level when was president, but now say this 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: at a much higher level is not a crisis. So 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: to discuss the messaging and more importantly, the reality, it's 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: a pleasure to welcome back to the Armstrong and Getty show, 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: Mark Recordy and the executive director of the Center for 23 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: Immigration Studies Market It's been too long. How are you. 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: I'm doing very well. I guess we can't transfer germs now, 25 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: you know, over the phone, So I'm happy to come 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: back now after a while. Well, the reason we hadn't 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: talked to you is the whole immigration thing got solved 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: and there was really nothing to talk about. So yeah, 29 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: so hey, Mark, let's start with what is this situation 30 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: on the border and or moving toward the border right now? 31 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: The Biden administration has basically advertised that they're gonna undo 32 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: all of the stuff Trump did. I'm not gonna tear 33 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: down anymore wall with the're not building anymore. And more importantly, 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: they're discontinuing these various policies that Trump put in place. 35 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: Since Congress isn't changing changing laws to sick plug some 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: of the loopholes that were drawing people, he had to 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: do stuff with executive authority, and that means Biden can 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 1: undo it. He is undoing it. The thing is for him, 39 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: he realizes that if he just undoes everything all at once, 40 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna have huge number of people just show up 41 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: at the border. So they're trying to slow walk some 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: of these changes, and you know what, the illegal immigrants 43 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: aren't cooperating with the Biden administration's agenda. Yeah, exactly, And 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: so that's why you end up with these farcical performances 45 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: where the Homeland Security Secretary is saying, no, it's a 46 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: it's a stressful challenge, it's not a crisis. I mean, 47 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: it's ludicrous. Uh, and they just can't admit it that. 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: I don't know that they really have much of a 49 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: way out of it, because if people who are coming 50 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: across and you're seeing these people with kids who are 51 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: coming across. A lot of this you've seen in South Texas, 52 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: but not just there. They're you know, given a piece 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: of paper and let go, just like it was before 54 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: the catch and release thing. And you know, these people 55 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: aren't stupid. They have cell phones. They call home and 56 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: they say, hey, yeah, you know, it worked, and so 57 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: they're you know, neighbor across the street and the brother 58 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: in law says, hey, you know, maybe we should give 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: it a try to And how do you stop that? Um, 60 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: this administration has kind of been a blind I mean 61 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: it's bad for the country, but it is kind of 62 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like past the popcorn and uh, 63 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, watch these guys twist themselves like pretzels, trying 64 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: to explain this ridiculous situation that they've helped create. So 65 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: I was trying to dig up. I don't know if 66 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: you have in front of in front of you some 67 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: of the numbers that came out in the last few 68 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: days about how many people are trying to come across 69 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: the border, how many kids they now have, they're um 70 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: just I mean, it's it's a huge increase very recently, 71 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: and you're saying that those numbers could go up from 72 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: there almost certainly. I mean the unaccompanied miners, these are, 73 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, people under eighteen, not really on a company. 74 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: They're illegal immigrant relatives in the US. Sometimes their parents 75 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: sometimes other relatives pay smugglers to bring them up to 76 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: the Mexican border, and then they get across and flag 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: down the border patrols. Those numbers have gone. They grew 78 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: in January, they were like more than December. In February 79 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: they were like fifty more than in January, and they're 80 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: projecting something like thirteen thousand in May. And I think 81 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: that's low because last month was nine thousand something like that, 82 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: of these so called unaccompanied miners who obviously under law 83 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: have to be dealt with differently rather than just, you know, 84 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: with the way you would deal with an adult. And um, 85 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: it's only gonna get worse. I mean, it's just until 86 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: the Biden administration does something to change what they're doing 87 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: at the border, there's just gonna be more and more 88 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: people coming. And they're not just from Central America. They're 89 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: coming from the Caribbean, but also from Africa and the 90 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: Middle East and all over the place. I appreciate you 91 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: bringing up the stark rise in the numbers of folks 92 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: trying across the border, because I think the unsophisticator, people 93 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: who just aren't news junkies, figure, Okay, you've got a 94 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: more or less constant flow of people who'd like to 95 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: come into the country. Then you have little changes in 96 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: policy and administration to another. But as you point out 97 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: the change in policy, the announcements by the Biden administration, 98 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: those echo deafeningly loudly throughout Central America in the world, 99 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and the coyotes and the cartels they say, Okay, now 100 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: let's ramp up our operations, let's pour people into the 101 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: US border. They react, and they react quickly, of course. Yeah. 102 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: And I mean the you know, January and February are 103 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: months when the numbers of crossings almost always go down. 104 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: As you can imagine, you know, it's it's flow. They're 105 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: going up. And there are you know, there are people 106 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: from the people who follow this stuff down in Central 107 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: America are saying that the smugglers are actually marketing Biden's 108 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, policies and the fact that now Trunk has 109 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: gone their marketing that in you know, towns and villages 110 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: in Central America as a reason to get while they're 111 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: getting is good before the green goes changed their minds 112 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: and it's so bad, and we published we posted something 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: on this on our website cis dot org yesterday that 114 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: some of the smuggling groups are now um making wrist 115 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: bands like at a water park for the aliens that 116 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: they're smuggling, to make sure they can keep track of 117 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: who's paid and who hasn't because there's so many people there, 118 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: and the different smuggling groups have different color wrist bands 119 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: with logos. They've got numbers on them, their computerized you know, 120 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: have you paid, have you where's your relatives? Live back 121 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: in the Old Country all that kind of stuff, because 122 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: it's it's such a flow that even the smuggling groups 123 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: are having trouble sort of getting a handle on how 124 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: many people there are. Hey, what do you use for 125 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: a number for how many illegals we have in the 126 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: United States? Um, I was watching on Tucker Carlson showing 127 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: Fox here the night he was he did a montage 128 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: of how many people use the number eleven million. It's 129 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: just like became a talking point over many years, and 130 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: he said there was a study out of Harvard and 131 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: m I t I believe it was, and their number 132 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: was more like somewhere between sixteen and twenty nine million, 133 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: with the with the most likely number being somewhere around three. Yeah. 134 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: I mean, we've looked into it some we're doing a 135 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: deeper dive into it now. And some of the problems 136 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: that Tucker highlighted in that piece on his are real 137 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: problems with the numbers. The thing is, I just you know, 138 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: I do not think it's twenty million people. It just 139 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: isn't now. I don't think it's yea. And one of 140 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: the real you know, the reason people are suspicious is 141 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: because he look the number isn't changing what's going on. 142 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: It's been the same. You know, how can it be 143 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: the same all these years? Well, the fact is new 144 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: illegals are coming all the time, but people leak out 145 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: of the illegal population all the time to some go home. 146 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: But also one out of four new Green card recipients, 147 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: new so called legal immigrants, are illegal aliens were already 148 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: living here. So there's always this churn. There's new people 149 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: coming in, and there's people who were illegals were basically 150 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: no longer illegals one way or another. So you know, 151 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: maybe it's twelves, maybe it's thirteen million. Uh, it just 152 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: can't be twenty million. You'd see it in the birth records, 153 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: the death records, the school enrollment. I mean, you can't 154 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: just misplace ten million people, you know what I'm interesting? 155 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: And how many illegals do you need? You know, Mark, 156 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: we've got about thirty seconds left before a hard break. 157 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: But even you're occasionally called anti immigrant, which is ridiculous 158 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: and insulting. Give us thirty seconds on c I S 159 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: is vision of immigration policy in the US. We're a 160 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: think tank as opposed to an advocacy group, and what 161 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: we try to do is make the case for a 162 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: pro immigrant policy of lower numbers, in other words, fewer immigrants, 163 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: but a warmer welcome for those people we do legally 164 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: lead into our country. And I think that's kind of 165 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: where most people. I think you're right. I think you're right. Yep. 166 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: Center for Immigration Studies Market Correans, the executive director c 167 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: i S dot org. Will have a link in Armstrong 168 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: and getty dot com so you can read and look 169 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: at more markets. Always enlightening. Thanks for the time, Thank you, 170 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: and uh and who do you take? Should be a 171 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: major part of the conversation. Um. I like the philosophy 172 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: We've got enough poor people. Why would we want more 173 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: unskilled poor people? How does that benefit America? Well? How 174 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: does that benefit the poor people? Sometimes got a job? 175 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: Caesar Chavez. That was one of his main points. He 176 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: wanted to stop a legal immigration Excuse me, my allergy 177 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: is going crazy this time here, uh, to avoid undercutting 178 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: the wages of his people.