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Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Hi, How are you? Well? Good? I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to answer that anymore. To be honest, I

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Speaker 1: asked me a different question. Okay, what's the name of

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Speaker 1: the show that we're on? Cool People? Yeah? And then

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Speaker 1: who are you? I'm sure? Thanks for asking who are you?

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you to ask who I

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Speaker 1: tell me who I am? I'm I'm Margaret, I'm your Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Who are you? I am? No crap, I gave you

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Speaker 1: the answer in the question, well, well, I am the

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Speaker 1: only Sophie matters, so good, good, comically accurate. God, yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Ah. Well, okay, I'm Margaret, I'm the host.

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Speaker 1: Sharne is our guest, Sophie is our producer. Ian is

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Speaker 1: the one who cuts out all the dead space when

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Speaker 1: my brain turns off in the middle of conversations and on.

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Speaker 1: Woman wrote the theme music for us. And in part

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Speaker 1: one we talked about who the kk are, slash were

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Today we're going to talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the people who sucked them up, because that's the cool

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Speaker 1: people who did cool stuff. Promise, whenever there are bad

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Speaker 1: people doing bad things, there are cool people trying to

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Speaker 1: funk those people up. Sometimes they succeed. Sometimes they fail,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I may fail to win, but I

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Speaker 1: will not fail to fight. Sometimes the cool people who

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Speaker 1: are trying to sunk up the bad people are you

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Speaker 1: and I here and now that's my inspirational speech. How

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Speaker 1: do I do? It's really beautiful? Thanks? Oh poetry? Okay,

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Speaker 1: and then I gotta remember I can't eat a little

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Speaker 1: bar while I'm talking. That doesn't work. I know how

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Speaker 1: to do my job podcast. I've been hired to accomplish

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Speaker 1: a task. What's that? What's that? Ian? We should know? Ian, No,

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Speaker 1: we can't do that to Margaret. It was just time

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Speaker 1: with the ballar? What is Oh wait, that's the thing

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Speaker 1: that happened. I'm just gonna get murdered later. People are

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Speaker 1: going to deep deep fake me from do you know

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Speaker 1: how many times poor editors have had to your chewing?

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Speaker 1: That's my that's my one thing. Do you know times

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Speaker 1: poor editors about here chewing? Like? I don't know how

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Speaker 1: I'm in this medium because I have that thing where

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Speaker 1: I like hate mouth noises like and it's called like

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Speaker 1: something whatever it starts with the end. Yeah, I really

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Speaker 1: have a thing about mouth noises. And I've listened to

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Speaker 1: myself talking back. I don't like my mouth noises. I

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Speaker 1: don't like anyone else's mouth noises. I cannot imagine being

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Speaker 1: an editor cutting out mouth noises. No, that's that sounds

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Speaker 1: like torture. So God bless mean and everyone else that

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Speaker 1: does that, because that sounds like absolute torture. ID be

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Speaker 1: like being the person with trip to phobia and you

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Speaker 1: have to edit out all the eyes out of the

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Speaker 1: Biblical angels. Uh huh okay, So I as a joke

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Speaker 1: that didn't work. Someone in the audience got it. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: So let's start today off with the cool people of

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Speaker 1: more or less the entire town of Carnegie, Pennsylvania, which

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Speaker 1: in three drove off a clan invasion with bricks and

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Speaker 1: bats and guns. Tell me more. Sorry, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: Well I will vent, Sharine. I wasn't going to, but

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Speaker 1: now I'm going to. We're gonna talk about the resistance

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Speaker 1: of the second KKK mostly um and the third one

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Speaker 1: because in my head I have this whole huge arc

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Speaker 1: I want to do at some point about reconstruction and

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Speaker 1: the wake of the Civil War, but I don't have

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Speaker 1: figured how to handle it yet, so I don't want to. Like,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm like I'm gonna tell these

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Speaker 1: stories because I haven't got it together yet to tell

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Speaker 1: the story about the people who fought the first Clan.

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Speaker 1: There's this town sort of called Carnegie, Pennsylvania. It's technically

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Speaker 1: a borough, not a town. It's sort of part of Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's weird. The name of the person

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Speaker 1: who runs it isn't a mayor. It's a Burgess. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not sure. Three yes. In the

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Speaker 1: nine twenties it was a steel town and it was

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Speaker 1: full of black folks who had fled Jim Crow South

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Speaker 1: Catholic immigrants from Ireland and Italy and Eastern Europe. But

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Speaker 1: half the town was Catholic, which I then presume means

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Speaker 1: like more than half the town is the sort of

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Speaker 1: folks that the clan would be targeting for violence. The

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Speaker 1: KKK didn't like them. They didn't like I have a question.

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Speaker 1: If it's about Burgesses, I can't answer. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: How does someone who hates Catholics and Walton to die.

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Speaker 1: How can you tell someone's Catholic? Probably Irish accents or

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Speaker 1: Italian accents back then. Okay, so that's like because that's

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Speaker 1: like an interest, like unless you're having a conversation with

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Speaker 1: someone like being I mean not saying it's easy, but

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Speaker 1: it is easier to direct your hate at someone that

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Speaker 1: looks different than you, because that look different than you

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Speaker 1: and you can you can spot them and single them out.

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Speaker 1: But it's just interesting that Catholicism was so hated because like,

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Speaker 1: how can you tell I know, and I mean you know,

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Speaker 1: you could be like, okay, well they're hanging out at

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Speaker 1: a Catholic church or I mean it's funny cause too

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Speaker 1: because you're like, oh, they're Irish and like, well, I

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Speaker 1: mean you know, Ireland is not solely Catholic, right, but

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Speaker 1: the people who were poor and had to flee um

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Speaker 1: the ravages of colonialism were more likely to be Catholic,

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Speaker 1: but again still not universally. But maybe they don't think

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Speaker 1: that much and maybe yeah yeah, and so you know, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the clan they don't like Catholics, they don't like immigrants,

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Speaker 1: and they really really don't like black people not coming

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Speaker 1: to i'd say, not coming to their neighborhood. But it's

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Speaker 1: not the clans neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, it's like their country

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Speaker 1: that in their mind, you know, that we stole this

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Speaker 1: fair and square. And most of the people that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, most of the clans people were talking about,

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Speaker 1: came as from as far away as Texas. Most came

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Speaker 1: from Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, and Kentucky. At the at

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Speaker 1: the clan's peak, there were thirty three branches of the

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Speaker 1: KKK in Allegheny County, where all this takes place. Um,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't call their branches branches. They called them claverns. No,

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Speaker 1: they didn't. They did with a K oh wait wait really, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's like the Kardashians just needing to put o K

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Speaker 1: in front of every fucking thing. No, thank you, Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: they put it and they just made up nonsense words

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Speaker 1: for everything everything. You would take a regular word and

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Speaker 1: you would come up with a new word that has

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Speaker 1: a U in it. I think, and I don't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't put this in the script. I think that they

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Speaker 1: called their like list of rules the chlorin huh, something

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Speaker 1: like the k fascination originated because it's like, what is coup?

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Speaker 1: Is that like like a Greek who close? Is the group? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Or circle or something? Yeah, I don't know. There's just

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Speaker 1: something to the Kardashian connection that I will think about it.

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Speaker 1: But okay, yeah, okay, don't know about pop culture. Is

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Speaker 1: the is the KKK Handbook? The is it? It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they're fucking I want to say they're fucking clowns,

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Speaker 1: but actually clowns way cooler than the clan um. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Sophie with the jokes. Yea. Anyway, August, really close to

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Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, the clan holds a rally out

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Speaker 1: thousand strong on a farm outside overlooking Carnegie. It's basically

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Speaker 1: like they're planning an invasion of Carnegie and they initiate

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Speaker 1: a thousand new violent bigots. Uh. They big big. They

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Speaker 1: burn a big old cross fifty fet tall. This is

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Speaker 1: like the thing that they like all of their big rallies.

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Speaker 1: They're like big. I mean they're big, like festivals of hatred,

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Speaker 1: and they're like competing to see you can, like which

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Speaker 1: one can have the biggest cross to set on fire.

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Speaker 1: Apparently a lot of times they would like fail at

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Speaker 1: the engineering and the crosses would fall over. I'm not

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Speaker 1: currently aware of any time that they fell over on

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Speaker 1: fire on top of klansmen, but if anyone is aware,

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Speaker 1: please let me know because it must have happened at

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Speaker 1: some point. Yeah, that would rule which probability was. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: they spent days preparing the site. The Grand Wizard of

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Speaker 1: the KKK, which is their main leader, was there. He'd

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Speaker 1: replaced his predecessor, the one who dipped out when going

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Speaker 1: got tough. They had fireworks that made a big red

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Speaker 1: ks in the sky. No, like, it's like cartoon villain. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just it's like a postcard villain,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, picnics and families and all that ship

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Speaker 1: these huge social events, these hate rallies. People from the

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Speaker 1: town aren't really excited about this for some odd reason.

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Speaker 1: At one point, anti clan folks took six pot shots

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Speaker 1: at their sentries and no one was hit but the sniper.

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Speaker 1: The snipers were never found. One account claims that they

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Speaker 1: were warning shots. Um, but I think no one actually

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Speaker 1: knows whether they like tried to hit anyone had missed,

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Speaker 1: or whether they were just like, we're going to go

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Speaker 1: shoot some guns near the clan rally. Because those people

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Speaker 1: right after the cross burning, the clans wanted to cap

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Speaker 1: off the night by marching through the nearby town or

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Speaker 1: borough of Carnegie, Pennsylvania. They preferred to march at night

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Speaker 1: because of that whole night rates thing. I think also

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Speaker 1: they thought it made them look scarier and that their

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Speaker 1: weapons were easier to conceal because it's dark. And when

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Speaker 1: I say marching through the nearby town, it was absolutely

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Speaker 1: clear that they're out for blood. It's hard to know

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Speaker 1: exactly whether they were like, let's go rough up a

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Speaker 1: few people, or whether they were like trying to just

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Speaker 1: really run riot on the whole place, because again trying

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Speaker 1: not to focus on atrocities here, but they've been doing

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, and anti black folks in particular have

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Speaker 1: been doing stuff like that in the recent past. At

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Speaker 1: this point they had a problem. The Burgess of Carnegie

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Speaker 1: was an Irish Catholic guy, John F. Conley, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't like the clan in part because the clan kept,

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Speaker 1: you know, harassing and murdering people. And so when the

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Speaker 1: clan had asked if they could march, she was like, no,

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Speaker 1: you can't parade through town. You're the KKK and the

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Speaker 1: grand Wizard he like, he plays this up very carefully, right,

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Speaker 1: he goes back and I'm not this is not direct quotes.

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Speaker 1: He's like, hey, buds, the town they say no, But

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Speaker 1: what do you say, and the people are like, let's

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Speaker 1: do it anyway. They didn't help that the chief of

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Speaker 1: police of Carnegie was in the clan. Oh I mean surprised, no, disappointed? Yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that's complicated about actually is

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that this story is particularly interesting

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Speaker 1: to me. Complicatedly looking for fights. As part of the

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Speaker 1: clan's recruitment strategy, um, they would intentionally hold parades in

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Speaker 1: Catholic areas, hoping to spur backlash so that they could

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Speaker 1: kind of like riot and look cool and tough and

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Speaker 1: like have beat up some people, you know, and kind

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Speaker 1: of like vaguely make it look like self defense or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Free speech. But it's this works when the KKK wins

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Speaker 1: when they quote their recruitment works really well when they

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Speaker 1: quote run kneed when streets run knee deep in Catholic blood. Oh.

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Speaker 1: They prefer their fights when they have numbers like forty

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Speaker 1: to one, basically, and I think this is remarkably consistent

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Speaker 1: across fascist ideologies. I think fascism is an ideology of cowardice.

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Speaker 1: I think it is about masking fear with a tough

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Speaker 1: guy attitude over people that you can wildly overpower. Well,

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Speaker 1: so they have a market. It's a good way to

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Speaker 1: put that for like my my little brain if appreciates

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Speaker 1: that breakdown, because it's very true. Thanks a lot of

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Speaker 1: time thinking about it, and a a lot of conversations like

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Speaker 1: back in the day with UM some European anti fascists

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Speaker 1: like in UM, like like us talking to someone in

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Speaker 1: Bulgaria once while I was there and and they were

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Speaker 1: talking about how it's like, look, when when we win

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Speaker 1: against the fascists, their numbers go down because they don't

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Speaker 1: like being on the losing side as compared to the

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Speaker 1: anti fascist side. When we our numbers go down only

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Speaker 1: if they kill us. Unfortunately. There it's like this, it's

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Speaker 1: ultimately all about insecurity, which is like kind of sad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: totally pathetic, sad, not sad like boo who you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Totally Yeah. Sot Klansmen out of start

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Speaker 1: marching towards the town. At the front of their parade

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Speaker 1: is a car with a five foot tall lit up

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Speaker 1: electric KKK light and wow, that must have taken a

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Speaker 1: lot of work. Uh huh. Wow. They have a marching band,

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Speaker 1: they have torches Allah Charlottesville, and they tried to march

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Speaker 1: into town over a train bridge, but the people of

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Speaker 1: Carnegie had blocked it with some trucks, so they marched

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Speaker 1: to another bridge, and this one leads right into the

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Speaker 1: Irish part of town. And when they get there, a

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Speaker 1: car is sideways across the road and there's a huge

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Speaker 1: crowd of Carnegieans who are there to politely say Nope,

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Speaker 1: you can't come the fucking Klansmen. By politely, I mean

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Speaker 1: they threw it at them. The klansmen successfully moved the car,

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Speaker 1: but the crowd drives them back throwing at them. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's frustrating for me, all the

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Speaker 1: history that I would find focuses on the clan and

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Speaker 1: like who was there for the clan and not the

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Speaker 1: people who fought them off, partly because the people who

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Speaker 1: fought them off didn't really write any histories about it

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Speaker 1: as far as anyone can tell. There's some people who

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Speaker 1: have done some researchers are really good. I'm gonna quote

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Speaker 1: it a couple of times. There's a a graphic novel

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Speaker 1: by Bill campbell Um, a black science fiction author, called

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Speaker 1: The Day the Clan Came to Town, who did a

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Speaker 1: lot of research and grew up in Carnegie. But as

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Speaker 1: far as I can tell, this was a consciously diverse

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Speaker 1: group that had come together against across racial and cultural

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Speaker 1: divides to team up for community defense. I believe that

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Speaker 1: there were black fighters, Italian fighters, Jewish fighters, Irish fighters,

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Speaker 1: and Armenian fighters in the crowd. But I I don't

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Speaker 1: know a ton about it, you know, Yeah, well, I

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Speaker 1: mean bring you bring up a good point about who

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Speaker 1: history is written by usually, you know, and like what

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Speaker 1: gets focused on and how many other details about so

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Speaker 1: many things that we don't know. Yeah, And it's and

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Speaker 1: it's even like histories written by the victors or whatever

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Speaker 1: and the clan like lose not only about the victors,

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Speaker 1: it's about like the biases, I think more so, it's

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Speaker 1: not about Yeah, it's just like what just it's like

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Speaker 1: a just by chance, what one person thinks is important

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Speaker 1: in that moment to document versus something else. And if

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Speaker 1: they're white or straight or whatever it is, and they're

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Speaker 1: writing about certain histories, they're going to focus on certain

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Speaker 1: things that only they think is important. So it's like

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Speaker 1: there's no such thing as unbiased anything when it comes

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Speaker 1: to history. Totally. Yeah, No, that's such a because it's

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Speaker 1: like I want to find moments of black resistance, and

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Speaker 1: I want to find moments of multiracial resistance, and I

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Speaker 1: want to find the people who are doing these things.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of the people writing about it are

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Speaker 1: focused on the clan as an evil entity or a

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Speaker 1: good entity. But most people run about his evil entity

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Speaker 1: at this point, I think, And so they want to

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Speaker 1: focus on the individuals within the clan. Yeah, so they're

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Speaker 1: at this bridge, A diverse crowd of people that organized

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Speaker 1: for their own defense of their own borrow came together

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Speaker 1: start driving them back. The clan's banned at this point,

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Speaker 1: is like, you know what funk this? And they had

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Speaker 1: the marching band. About the marching band, just the people

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Speaker 1: there were like trumpets and the ship. Yeah, they run

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Speaker 1: a trumpet to a gunfight. Um, well, at this point,

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Speaker 1: it's a brick fight, I think. Oh, and cops show

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Speaker 1: up and not all of them are klansmen. About half

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Speaker 1: of them, I think are. I'm not entirely cos that's

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Speaker 1: that's lower than you know, it's more than I thought. Half. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I don't remember where I got that. I remember

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Speaker 1: that not all of them were klansmen, but that the

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Speaker 1: chief of police is. But I don't remember what were yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, buds, this isn't a good idea

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Speaker 1: to the clan, and the clan ignores them. Eventually, three

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Speaker 1: hundred clansmen out of the people who are on the march,

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Speaker 1: three hundred burst through the crowd and charge into the town.

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Speaker 1: And they're like singing onward Christian Soldiers as they do it,

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Speaker 1: because they're off on a fucking holy war, right a crusade?

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Speaker 1: Yea for them? Yeah, totally. And so this is three

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Speaker 1: hundred out of twenty thousand who are brave enough to

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Speaker 1: actually go throw down. Um. When you put it that way,

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Speaker 1: it's very I don't know a music I know, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that's what we need to like remember, yeah,

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Speaker 1: fighting breaks out for real. There's clubs and maces and

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Speaker 1: knives and scattered gunfire because you don't march into a

295
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Speaker 1: town that doesn't want you there, that has prepared for

296
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Speaker 1: you and have it go easy. Women on rooftops are

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Speaker 1: throwing bricks and coal at the klansmen like whatever they

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Speaker 1: can find. This an asshole guy Thomas rankin Abbot, He's

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Speaker 1: from a rural town about twenty miles further down the road.

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Speaker 1: He gets himself shot in the head, and he does

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Speaker 1: himself a dying and the clansmen break and run. He

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Speaker 1: does himself way to see that one again. He does

303
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Speaker 1: himself a dying. He becomes a dead person instead of

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Speaker 1: like that, and all of his buddies, the Klansmen, they

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Speaker 1: break and run as soon as he's and they're like,

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Speaker 1: they're yeah, I know, they're like, they're shooting guns and

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Speaker 1: ship at people. They shoot a bunch of people, but

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Speaker 1: no one else dies in this particular encounter. But as

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Speaker 1: soon as one of theirs gets shot in the head,

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Speaker 1: they're all like, oh fuck, and they run the funk away.

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Speaker 1: They break and run. They ditched their guns in the

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Speaker 1: street for fear of being arrested with them. Hundreds hundreds

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Speaker 1: of Revolvers are recovered from the streets um and there's

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Speaker 1: no like specific evidence that the recovered revolvers were the

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Speaker 1: Clans revolvers. But my theory that they were the Clans

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Speaker 1: revolvers is based on the fact that if you're in

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Speaker 1: your own town, you don't have to ditch your gun

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Speaker 1: in the street. Yeah, you can take it home, or

319
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Speaker 1: you can ditch it somewhere you can get it later,

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Speaker 1: because you probably know, you g it's so funny that

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Speaker 1: they were so crusade, like had their guns and everything,

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Speaker 1: and like the police like they are telling what to do,

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Speaker 1: and they dropped them because they don't want to get arrested.

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Speaker 1: Let's just yeah, yeah, totally totally of your power. Totally

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Speaker 1: and then also like run into as soon as the

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Speaker 1: gunfight is two sided, they're like, oh ship, they have guns,

327
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Speaker 1: like we can die. Yeah, hundreds of them had guns.

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Speaker 1: A local undertaker who sounds like a gem of a

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Speaker 1: person I'm not being sarcastic, was arrested for the quote

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Speaker 1: unquote murder of the Klansman. I'm putting that in air

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Speaker 1: quotes because I don't think it was murder. And this guy,

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Speaker 1: the guy who was arrested was a sixty five year

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Speaker 1: old undertaker named Patty McDermott. His name is Patty, so

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Speaker 1: he's probably Irish Catholic Patty. But there was too much

335
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Speaker 1: chaos that night and too many can flicting witness statements,

336
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Speaker 1: so Patty was set free after a while because they

337
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: couldn't really pin it on him. However, after this whole thing,

338
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to a little bit where this becomes

339
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Speaker 1: this big like the dead dude becomes a murder and

340
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: ship Patty gets arrested again on the same charge, and

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Speaker 1: it goes to trial and he's found not guilty at

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Speaker 1: a jury trial. No idea whether the sixty five year

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Speaker 1: old undertaker shot the klansman, I would support him a

344
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Speaker 1: percent either way. Yeah, yeah, justice for Patty, yeah. And

345
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Speaker 1: so the KKK turns the death of their guy into propaganda,

346
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Speaker 1: and a lot of the history is like, and this

347
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,680
Speaker 1: spiked their numbers, um, because they're like, oh, that damn

348
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Speaker 1: irishman shot from the alley behind a Catholic church, which

349
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Speaker 1: is true. The dude got shot right in front of

350
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Speaker 1: a Catholic church, um, And they're like, if we'd wanted,

351
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 1: we could have taken that town, but we're too law abiding.

352
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 1: But like, no, they got fucking beat, they got their

353
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Speaker 1: asses kicked, and they ran away. Yeah. It's like the

354
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Speaker 1: point you made about it boils down to it's just

355
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Speaker 1: like they don't wanna they they're in it as long

356
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: as they're like the big guy that the winners, you know,

357
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,160
Speaker 1: and as soon as it starts to like turn on them,

358
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 1: they're like, actually, I'm gonna flip. I'm just gonna run

359
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: totally not necessarily flip more yeah more just runs yeah.

360
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: And the clan used this opportunity to griff their members

361
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: because of course they did. They nothing, ever, changes. They

362
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 1: raised sixteen thousands and donations for the families of the

363
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Speaker 1: family of their martyr, which is about two hundred thousand

364
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 1: dollars today, of which five thousands, so less than a

365
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: third actually made it to the family of course. Yeah. Meanwhile,

366
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 1: at a nearby Catholic town called Everson, the KKK drove

367
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Speaker 1: through and some local kids jumped them, stole all their ship,

368
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: and then they had like a mock ceremony to make

369
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Speaker 1: fun of it all because they had all like the

370
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: KKK stuff, and they're like, oh, where the KKK. Love

371
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: that for them, but love that for us, love it,

372
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Speaker 1: And so the k K they're like, all right, we're

373
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Speaker 1: gonna We're taking western Pennsylvania. We're gonna take this place,

374
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: you know, And so they call for an even bigger

375
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: and more important rally. Shortly after all of this, they

376
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: sent three thousand plain clothes armed clansmen to a town

377
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 1: of the town of Scottsdale, Pennsylvania. They had fucking machine

378
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: guns and trucks only ten thousand clansmen showed up to

379
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: the rally forty tho non clan spectators, which is to say,

380
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: probably forty anti clan people, but it might have been

381
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: forty neutral people. But I don't know. I can't really

382
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 1: imagine showing up neutral in this particular context. The history

383
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: I read was like spectator and I'm like, what does

384
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: that mean? And the local Exalted Cyclops, which was the

385
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: local leader. That's can't I can't believe that's real. Yeah,

386
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's real Exalted Cyclops. Yeah, they Exalted Cyclops.

387
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: Why is why is one eye good for you? I

388
00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: don't understand whatever, because they're sucking the worst kind of

389
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: D and D nerds that have ever existed. But we

390
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: have a new sponsor this week has a jingle. The

391
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: jingle is don't stare at your feet when you cross

392
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: the street, jay walk, jaywalk, make sure cars are plenty

393
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: far than jay walk, jay walk. Because our sponsors the

394
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: concept of jaywalking, it was responsible to do so, thank you. Yeah,

395
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: and uh I actually they sent me some free jaywalking

396
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: in the mail. Oh great, cool? Yea, I was running

397
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: out code don't get hit by cars O good? Yeah

398
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: or be yeah, totally for any fines you might incur.

399
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't know if it's still exists.

400
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: But one time I was in Sweden and they had this, uh,

401
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: this turnstyle hopper union because they believe that the turns

402
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: the public transit should be free. So there's a union

403
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 1: of people who hoped the turnstiles that pays your fines

404
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 1: if you get caught hopping. To love that. Yeah, well

405
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: looks like true community organizing, I know. And I don't

406
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: know anything about how it went down or anything, because

407
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: I was just a traveler who went through and learned

408
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: about it and then didn't follow up. Again, here's some

409
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: advertisers and we are back and we are talking about

410
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: how the clan is trying to take Scott's Dale. The

411
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: local cyclops with his one good eye, he chickens out

412
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: at the last minutes, of course he does. And only

413
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: about twere of the ten thousand clansmen go on the

414
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: march into town, and they don't wear their hoods or

415
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: robes or anything because they're too afraid. Uh. They were

416
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: three hours late, they were wildly outnumbered, and they turned

417
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: around and left dejected, whereupon a few random anti clans

418
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: people took some shots at them. I don't think anyone

419
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 1: was hit. I think it was just like you get

420
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: the funk out of here. I mean, it's just a

421
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: good reminder that like usually hate is fueled by like

422
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: a really insecure desire to like power or to remain

423
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: in power. And it's all about like it's not like

424
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: a real drive, like a human drive like that, that

425
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: makes sense. And and then it's like the other side,

426
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: it's like you're fighting to survive and you're fighting to

427
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: like to protect the people you love. And I think

428
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: that drive maintains so much more than like a very

429
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 1: flimsy power grab or like cowardly attempt at staying on top.

430
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is where the difference happens.

431
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if I'm articulating myself when I'm

432
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say, but I feel like, no, no,

433
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: that that makes sense. Yeah, because yeah, the people who

434
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: are defending who are actually defending themselves in their ways

435
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: of life, versus people who are defending their privileged position

436
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: that they then think means that they're defending their way

437
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: of life, the way of life of being the slave owner,

438
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: often in a literal sense. You know, Yeah, there's no

439
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: deeper connection to humanity. There there's just like it's literally

440
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 1: just about your personal gain and power, and I don't know,

441
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: there's there's no way you can be like it's it's

442
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: my right to like as a human to own people.

443
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: Like No, actually the only thing that's true is like

444
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: you can have a right to live and like protect

445
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: yourself and like those basic core things are what maintained

446
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: versus like really shitty stupid human stuff. It's just like

447
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: service level. Yeah, but I'll think about that more and

448
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: make it more another another time. Now you're onto something.

449
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: I want to end this part of the story, the

450
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: Carnegie part of the story in western Pennsylvania part of

451
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: the story, with some reflections from the author I was

452
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, Bill Campbell, the black science fiction author

453
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: who grew up in Carnegie, who wrote a graphic novel

454
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: I which I highly reck amend to people. The The

455
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: graphic novel is called The Day the Clan Came to Town,

456
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: and this is from his afterward. The immigrants in this

457
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: story are indeed the victors. They beat the clan that

458
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: day and one in their ultimate goal of kicking the

459
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: Clan out of Pennsylvania century ago. But they want an

460
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: even larger victory. They ultimately became quote white, and as

461
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: a result, became the beneficiaries of all that whiteness has

462
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: to offer in this country. Once you're admitted into any club,

463
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: you want to act as though you've always been a member.

464
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: There's no surprise that this story has gone largely untold.

465
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: A good friend of Mine Comics creator Jiba Mulay Anderson

466
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: often says that whiteness is a racer. Countless European folk,

467
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: wast traditions and attitudes have actually eventually been washed away

468
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: upon coming to these shores in order for folks to

469
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: be considered quote white. This exchange has been rewarded with

470
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: material gain. Obviously, this affords many a convenient amnesia and

471
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: a convenient narrative of how America has always greeted immigrants

472
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: with open arms and this latest wave is somehow different,

473
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: how they worked hard to get what they have, and

474
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: that all other people have to do is work hard

475
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: and so on, when really all that happened is they

476
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: were granted whiteness and different forms of discrimination were removed

477
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: from their paths. That's very well put and something I

478
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: will think about longer. I have to chew on that yeah.

479
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be curious your take on it if

480
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: you come up with thoughts on it later. I mean,

481
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: it's just a really good point about I just never

482
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: I mean also, I just never thought of it that way.

483
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 1: I think it's like, uh, the idea that like, once

484
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: you're given that, once you're granted access into the club

485
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: and you realize how much easier your life can be,

486
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: you don't want to leave it. And at the same time,

487
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: you don't want to deny yourself or like any like,

488
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: you don't want to make it seem like you always

489
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: were there because you know that what the other side

490
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: is like and the I don't know's there's there's a

491
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: lot of layers there, and I feel like the the

492
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: removal of one discrimination from your life that bit like

493
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if my brain is starting to break, Margaret,

494
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: and I wish I could pose correctly. But I really

495
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: liked that take on the idea of immigrants that maybe

496
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: we'ld never considered themselves this like overarching label of white

497
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: suddenly come here and realize the privilege that comes with

498
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: being white and how easy, how much easy? I mean like, also,

499
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: if you have a family and your life could be

500
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: easier X Y Z way like why why would you

501
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: choose to suffer? You know, and so there's there's a

502
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: lot of arguments there, and uh, you know I have

503
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: to do is give up your language and your and

504
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: besides like St. Patrick's Day or God for Big Columbus

505
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: Day or these liked little tiny things you know. Yeah, yeah,

506
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: yeah I will. I will try to be smarter next

507
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: time T talk about no no, no, you're you're you're

508
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: doing great, thanks Margaret, all right, cost and validation than you. Well,

509
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: it's easy to offer you constant validation keep all of

510
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: this sweet stuff is Yeah. So another group that fought

511
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: the second incarnation of the Clan, the people of Carnegie,

512
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: are mysterious in that it's it seems like their history

513
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: was barely written. This next group, they're mysterious in that

514
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: they're they're fucking mysterious, like to the degree where I

515
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: found a bunch of references to them existing, but I

516
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: like only kind of believe that they existed. This happens

517
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: to me a lot on the show. There's like all

518
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: of these stories and history that are like so like amazing,

519
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: and I'm like but really, well, because you can't trust history,

520
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: we just we talked about that, like real, you can't

521
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: just read something and be like fat because that's usually

522
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: not unless you're like reading a math equation or something

523
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: right totally, And so the next part feels a little

524
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: bit like a comic book, but frankly so does the clan.

525
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 1: And this group set themselves up to be the mirror

526
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: image of the clan. They are the Knights of the

527
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: Flaming Circle. No, have you ever heard of the Knights

528
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: of the Flaming Circle? Okay, so in the early nineties,

529
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: this group rises up to counter the KKK, the Knights

530
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: of the Flaming Circle or the Red Knights or the

531
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: Knights of the Burning Ring. They have a lot of names.

532
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: And since the KKK would take any white Protestant man,

533
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: the Knights of the Flaming Circle will take anyone who

534
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: isn't a white Protestant man. Wait, that is the best

535
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: criteria of club admittes. So like that's like the criteria

536
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: to be on my podcast, Like the only criteria to

537
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: be a white podcast that you can't be a white guy. Yeah, like,

538
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: as long as are specifically not what the Protestant with

539
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: the with the KKK let's in and you know, and

540
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: I like, I know that there were plenty of Protestant

541
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: manuated the Klan, but whatever, this isn't their group. We

542
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: don't know a ton about them. But they were active

543
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: throughout the mid Atlantic, in the Midwest and beyond, I

544
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: believe less so in the South. They this is sketchy.

545
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: They dressed in white robes and they burned giant circles

546
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: instead of crosses. They would show up wherever the KKK

547
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: was burning crosses and then burned circles, which is goofy

548
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: as fuck, like this weird game of tic tac toe. Yeah,

549
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: oh my god, I just thought of it that way. Wait,

550
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: what why would why did you decide to dress like them?

551
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, I think they're being like yeah, yeah,

552
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: it was so funny though, to just show up like

553
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: you got cross, I got a circle? What now I

554
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: can't win this tic tac toe game? We're going to it?

555
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: I mean like it also covered yourself in a white sheet,

556
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: like no one knows who you are underneath that. Well,

557
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 1: they actually they wore white robes, but they did not

558
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: wear hoods, and they did not wear point hats or

559
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: anything like that. No masks and no hats, And I

560
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: think that was to make it clear that they weren't.

561
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: They could probably take that joke only so far. You know,

562
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: what I have not been able to find is whether

563
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: or not Johnny Cash was referencing potential affiliation with the

564
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: Knights the Burning Ring when he said I fell into

565
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: a burning ring of fire unsure to be determined. And

566
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: their anonymous communicate from they said that they were a

567
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: quote movement that will wring the earth with blazing justice

568
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: to all weird, enemy of all clans with a C

569
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: and clans with a K. We believe in liberty for

570
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: every human being, black, white, or yellow, regardless of race, religion,

571
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: or creed. I love that they brought up the k

572
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: C thing totally. I'm so over that, Like I like,

573
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: thank you for distinguishing that, and also just like that's

574
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: just metal as fuck, Like I don't know, it's so cool.

575
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: They probably got their start about a month after some

576
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: people in um the town of Stupentsville, Ohio, like fucked

577
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: up a clan march. They overturned clans cars, they tore

578
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: up clan flags, they beat klansmen with bricks and clubs

579
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: and ship like. This thing that happened in Carnegie is

580
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: an example not a like, not like the thing that

581
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: turned the tide. It kind of turned the tiding western Pennsylvania,

582
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: but like this ship was happening, you know, like klansmen

583
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: would sometimes fun people up, but sometimes klansmen would get

584
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: sucked up. So a month after this clan rally gets

585
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: sucked up, the these Nights of the Flaming Circle announced themselves. Later,

586
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: a dentist claimed to be the founder of the organization,

587
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: which is noteworthy in that the head of the clan

588
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: was a dentist. To whoa, wait, that deserves examining, right,

589
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: because teeth are white. Maybe there's something there. I don't know.

590
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: Sorry that was a stretcher, but that is a very

591
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: interesting coincidence. My current theory is either raw coincidence or

592
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: they probably didn't really have a founder or a leader,

593
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: like in a really strict sense everything about them. I

594
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: don't think they were like anarchists, but they were very

595
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: anarchistic in a lot of ways. I suspect that the

596
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: dentist was like, oh, I'll be the I'll be in

597
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: charge because we're the mirror of the clan and I'm

598
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: a like I would believe that. I would believe that

599
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: take because like they're they're already trolling so hard, like

600
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: why not just have the cherry on top and be like,

601
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: who's the dentist here? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, you're in charge.

602
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 1: And so they wore no masks or hoods. Their logo

603
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: as a red circle with a statue of liberty in

604
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: the middle. They had no central organization. They had chapters

605
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: because they're not a grift. They had chapters in Vermont, Pennsylvania,

606
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: West Virginia, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, and New Mexico. They had

607
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: organizers in every city in Ohio because that seemed to

608
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: be where they were based out of. And the KKK

609
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: accused them of being anarchists, but that's I found no

610
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: evidence besides the fact that the clan accused them of it.

611
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: And also there's someone it's I believe it is an

612
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: actually ideologically diverse movement. They were a lot like today's

613
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: anti fascists, to quote a right up on the site

614
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: the New Eclipse. They used tactics like putting pressure on

615
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: meeting halls to refuse to allow the clan to meet there,

616
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: publishing lists of clan members, destroying the anonymity of the organization,

617
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: organizing counter demonstrations to show mass opposition to the clan

618
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: and what it stood for, physically interrupting their parades and rallies,

619
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: assaulting clan members and damaging their property. Beautiful. Yeah, just

620
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: all the tried and true ship. Yeah, I wonder do

621
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: we know not that it matters, but like do we

622
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: know that the leaders are like the not the leaders,

623
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: but like the people that initiated it, Like are they white?

624
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: Are they? Like? Yeah, I either way, it's sick, but

625
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: like it would be interesting to know how they came

626
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: together that way, I know, And like in all of

627
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: these random times when they're like, oh, an anti clan

628
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: people sucked up a clan rally, I'm like I kind

629
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: of want to know because it's written out of history

630
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: whether it was like a primarily black thing, whether it

631
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: was a like primarily Irish thing, or whether it was

632
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: a combo yeah, and like yeah, and and people don't

633
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: talk about it because people don't like talking about race

634
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: in this stupid country, and so I I frankly don't know.

635
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: But also just like you bring up a good point

636
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: about how we always hear about the clan fucking people up,

637
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: and that's like the thing we learned about in history

638
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: that they did these like atrocities or like they were

639
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: at this group that was hateful, But wouldn't it have

640
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: been nice to learn about the other way, like how

641
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: people like fucked them up and fought back, because we

642
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: never learned about at least I didn't. So it's like

643
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: I think maybe that also just like a deeper thing

644
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: about how humans focus on bad ship and like how

645
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: that's the only thing that gets remembered in history or whatever.

646
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: But that part of history is a really good reminder

647
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: of like the other side of humanity because like just

648
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: thinking about the clan the same way I thought like

649
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: everyone was racist or whatever, like what it's just like

650
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: the same kind of thing where you forget that you

651
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: can't have one without the other, and that the other

652
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: is like fighting twice as hard at the same time.

653
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: It was a good reminder of that. Yeah, and it

654
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: it it's just this ebb and flow, you know, and

655
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: like and even though we have not defeated the concepts

656
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: that the clan brings to bear right, we probably never

657
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: truly will, but we should always be trying to. We

658
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: have as a society defeated the clan multiple times and

659
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: destroyed multiple clan organizations, you know, within five years from

660
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: five million members to thirty thousand members, by shaming them,

661
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: by exposing them, by beating the ship out of them,

662
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: by legislating against them, by by doing everything that we

663
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: can right and like and that is not you know,

664
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to be like ha ha. And then

665
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: there was this little blip called the Ku Klux Klan,

666
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: and we kicked the ship out of them because like, no,

667
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: they fucked things up, right, And then oh yeah, there's

668
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: definitely like the reality of how shitty they are is there.

669
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: But learning about the the people that thought back is

670
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: also I think, just like because I can get really

671
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: cynical and just be like, humanity sucks, We're fucking this

672
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: place up. We don't deserve to be here. But then

673
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: like seeing people that like in face of whatever kind

674
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: of danger or evil, like they're still there like in

675
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: the front being like fuck you, I'm going to dress

676
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: like you have burn a circle right next to your act.

677
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: That was So that's like just so cool. And I

678
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: feel like if kids learned about that, I think that

679
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: would like empower them to like think like that in

680
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: a way, like like empower them to like want to

681
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: fight back against that stuff. I know, it's like a

682
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: different conversation about education and history and all that stuff.

683
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: But I do think it's it's it's it's just sad

684
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: that we don't learn about those people because maybe they

685
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: still a tribute them to like riots and violence and

686
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: fucking things up. But I don't know, it's it's not

687
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just it's just I think it's

688
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: it would be nice to learn about that as children. Yeah. No,

689
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: absolutely knowing that you can do something as a big

690
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: part of it. Yeah, That's what I'm trying to say,

691
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: even if, like, even if it's dangerous, even if like

692
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: like knowing that you can pick the not safe path

693
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: and that that's okay. Yeah. No, I think about this

694
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: stuff way too much. Um okay. But what I also

695
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: think about is the following um looney tunes thing that

696
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: they did, which was one time the clan was going

697
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: to have a parade with like cars, so they just

698
00:39:51,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: lined the road with roofing tax tires. That is just genius,

699
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 1: chef's kiss. Whoever thought of that, whoever comment did that? Amazing?

700
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah in Williamson County, Illinois. Uh, And I've heard this

701
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: story told from a different perspective, but not about I'll

702
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: get to that. The Flaming Circle and Williamson County, Illinois

703
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: was made up of miners immigrants I believe since it's

704
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: separating miners and immigrants, I actually wonder whether that means

705
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: black miners. I don't know, miners, immigrants, bootleggers, right, because

706
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: the bootleggers hate the clan because the Clan is the

707
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: army of prohibition, And even a bunch of cops are

708
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: part of the Flaming Circle because they don't want to

709
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: enforce prohibition because they like drinking. Well, other cops in

710
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: the area were klansmen. Some pro Clan cops shot up

711
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: an ad like that. Wait, wait, I like that you differentiated.

712
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: But some police were against the clan because of alcohol,

713
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: not because of racism. Yeah, I mean, like specifically, the

714
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: thing I read was cops who didn't want to enforce prohibition,

715
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: not cops who are and tracism. No, no, no, that's

716
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: that's a very good point. And so some pro Clan

717
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: cops shot up an anti clan meeting, a Flaming Circle meeting,

718
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: and they injured someone. And so the guy goes to

719
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: the hospital, and while he's in the hospital, an anti

720
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: Clan person went and shot and killed one of the

721
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: klansman cops, a guy named Caesar Cagel. So the clan

722
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: surrounds the hospital and shoots it up. The National Guard

723
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: gets called in, and for the next year and a

724
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: half the whole county is caught up in this like

725
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: crazy violent struggle of clan versus anti clan. And a

726
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: particular note, a Jewish gangster named Charlie Burger was involved.

727
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: He was a bootlegging guy, and him and another bootlegger gang,

728
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: his gang and another bootlegger gang put aside their differences

729
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: to like funk up the clan and then after they

730
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: drove the clan out of town, they went to war

731
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: against each other and it was terrible. But which is

732
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: another I don't know enough about this guy to make

733
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: a moral judgment on him. He is Jewish immigrant who

734
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: was like whatever, I'm going to be a bootlegger and

735
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: did this thing. I don't know. But when you're talking

736
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: about like people can get together and fight the bad things,

737
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: bad people can do it, like like complicated people can

738
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: still fight against bad things. You know, you don't have

739
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: to be a paragon of virtue to be like, you

740
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to fight the clan. You know,

741
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: that's like the lowest bar, like like I'm a violent,

742
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 1: outspoken bigot, is the worst possible thing, and so everyone

743
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: is better than them, you know, I mean even a

744
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: cough that just like he wants to drink, you know

745
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: what I mean, that's just like that counts cots. You know,

746
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: it probably sucks like but so in the end, the

747
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: anti clan, the weird affiliation of cops and bootleggers and

748
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: Catholics and trade union miners whatever, they went out and

749
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: they stopped clan organizing in the county by And that's

750
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: all I've been able to find. I haven't been able

751
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: to find any like actual books about the Red Circle.

752
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: Secret societies, especially informal ones are weird like that. But

753
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: good on you Tick tac toe, Antifa and anti and

754
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 1: there's more, though, there's more that I can tell you about.

755
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: But there's more, there is more, but first can't wait. First,

756
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: you do have to wait, that's the thing, um, because

757
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: there's other things that you could learn about, like jay

758
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: walking as a you know, if someone gets hit by

759
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: a car because I told him to jaywalk, I'm gonna

760
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: feel so guilty. But you'll never know that's true. That's

761
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, ignorance is blissed. Yeah, I think for

762
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: yourself and or purchase these goods and services. One of

763
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: those two you pick. We are back. We have a

764
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: couple more stories. Yeah, another group that fought the KKK,

765
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: and this one I want to include for a couple

766
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: of reasons. One is a serious diversity of tactics and

767
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: how people have fought the KKK. Sometimes it's these armed

768
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: and organized groups. Sometimes it's spontaneous community defense and street brawls.

769
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's newspaper expose as Sometimes it's the federal troops

770
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: like in the reconstruction South. Sometimes it's lawsuits. And I'm

771
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: gonna talking about a lawsuit that stopped at dred Strong

772
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: militia of klansmen in the eighties. A bunch a law

773
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: girls got together. That's true. You know what critical support

774
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: for law girls. Yeah, they come through sometimes, you know,

775
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: they really do. You know, I'm just saying I'm not one.

776
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that I'm inherently against them. Yeah, yeah,

777
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not saying they can't do some good

778
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: out there, like good. I'm glad. Yeah. So the US

779
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: War in Vietnam, when the US invaded Vietnam and it

780
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: was bad. It brought about a hundred and thirty thousand

781
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: Vietnamese refugees to the US, where they were of course

782
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: met with open arms and respect and care just getting racism.

783
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: They were met with racism a bunch off. I mean,

784
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was different for different people's experiences. I

785
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: can't speak to her well, any of their experiences, because

786
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: that's not my experience. A bunch of refugees settled in

787
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: Sea Drift, Texas on the Gulf in the late seventies

788
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: because there were fishers and it seemed like a good

789
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: place to fish. It was a good place to fish.

790
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: Racist locals got really mad about the competition. They got

791
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: mad that the Vietnamese were getting help from the government

792
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: and to bring back that old weird thing because they

793
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: were getting help from the Catholic Church. This is a

794
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: strange thread. I did not plan for this thread. I

795
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: what is up with in this case? No, you know,

796
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: because by this point I think most of the anti

797
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: Catholics I think is largely subsided. I don't know, um,

798
00:45:54,920 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: but it all boiled down to like just hating the pope,

799
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: like is that I don't know, Is it that simple.

800
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: I don't. I I don't know. I frankly don't understand.

801
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: I can I can almost understand the ninety I can't really,

802
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: but like I could, I could understand how to express

803
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: the opinions of the nineteen twenties anti Catholic, the nineteen eighties,

804
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies anti Catholic Protestant. No, I don't understand um,

805
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: and I presume most of it was racism. But I

806
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: did find a couple of references to the fact that

807
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: the fact that they were sponsored by the government and

808
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church was part of what fueled the racist

809
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: anger and a majority I believe of the Vietnamese refugees

810
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: are a greater percentage of the Vietnamese refugees were Catholic

811
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: than Vietnamese people who stayed in Vietnam, as I understand

812
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: from I was bugging one of my friends about this today,

813
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: and the language barrier, of course didn't help the local

814
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: fishers and the refugee fishers get along. U fishing practices

815
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: were different about like how far apart to space crab

816
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: traps um, but no one But the reason I'm like

817
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: knowledge sucking racism is because no one bothered or was

818
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: able to like talk to the refugees about that and

819
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: in the lateeen seventies. I'm going to quote np ares

820
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: passive voice, horrible way of phrasing this, because I want

821
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: to drag NPR for this fucking statement. Quote. A local

822
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: white crabber was shot and killed in a dispute with

823
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: Vietnamese fisherman over fishing territory. Two Vietnamese men were charged

824
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: with murder and acquitted on the grounds of self defense.

825
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: That's when the Ku Klux Klan showed up and things

826
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: got ugly. I hate this paragraph. I hate it because

827
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: first and foremost the immigrant fishers, they were proven in

828
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: court to have been acting in self defense. So leading

829
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: with a white guy got killed, not a white guy

830
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: fucked around and subsequently found out. It's like you're already

831
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: framing of a story, a narrative that you're pushing. Yeah,

832
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like even the US legals, the famously

833
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: biased was like, no, that was self defense. And the

834
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: next thing up, like things got ugly when the KKK

835
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: showed up, Like it sounds like things were pretty Yeah,

836
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: it would a cute way to summarize atrocities of the

837
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: I know. And also things were already bad they were.

838
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 1: These two people had to defend themselves from Bigot. After

839
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: the acquittal of the Vietnamese fishers, a bunch of clansmen

840
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: set fired to Vietnamese houses and boats. Some of the

841
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: Vietnamese refugees fled to Louisiana for safety. I can't even

842
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: fucking imagine fleeing one more and then showing up and

843
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: having to deal with them. The clan wasn't happy. They

844
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: wanted to drive the rest of them off too, so

845
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: they spent two years fucking with people. They would like

846
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: burn crosses and people's yards. They would they were like

847
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: training people for guerrilla warfare and the hills for the

848
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: coming race war. They were driving around a boat with

849
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: like an effigy of a hanged Vietnamese fisher on it.

850
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: They would put armed militiamen on all the white owned boats.

851
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: They were they were just doing some awful ship hellish

852
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: And of course the KKK would in the propaganda would

853
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: be like, and they're all secret communists too, um, which

854
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: is particularly funny since the refugee Vietnamese community was mostly

855
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: anti Communists. That's what the war was about, Like, it

856
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: was the people who flood allied with the US and

857
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: the Vietnamese War. Um, but never underestimate the political naivete

858
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: of racists. Yeah, like they can't think that deeply, you

859
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's just like, yeah, so the

860
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: Fishers used some of the tools that were availabed with them.

861
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: They got together some law girls, I guess, and the

862
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: law girls at the Southern Poverty Law Center and the

863
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: Vietnamese Fishers Fishermen's Association filed a federal class action lawsuit

864
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: against KKK organizing. They sued the KKK more broadly, but

865
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: they also named the Grand Dragon of Texas, which is

866
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: the leader of the local KKK, is the dragon. And yeah,

867
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: I think it goes like other people know the ship

868
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: better than I do. But I think it's like wizard

869
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: dragons cyclops is the kind of like hierarchy of leaders.

870
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: You know, there's just like no through line there. What

871
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: is the ilogies different magics? Like I don't get it. God, yeah, yeah, yeah,

872
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: they didn't even know fucking mythology. No, not at all.

873
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: They're all from very different like so bizarre and stupid

874
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: and makes it even dumber, it really does. I don't know.

875
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: It's like kids that not kids like people that are

876
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: like obsessed with dragons are much different than people like

877
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: obsessed with Merlin or something, and people in totally different

878
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: people obsessed with like I don't know Hercules mythology. Yeah no, yeah,

879
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: Hercules and Merlin are not the same kid exactly. Yeah.

880
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: Um speaking as a Merlin slash dragon kid, I like

881
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,479
Speaker 1: it was aware of Hercules, but it didn't spark joy.

882
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah whatever. Yeah, I was more the mythology kid into mythology.

883
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: That's I'm kind of coming around. Yeah, I mean, we're

884
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: all we should all just now us, we should all

885
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: come together. But the Ku Klux Clan didn't do it right,

886
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: so they can so in the lawsuit, the they claimed

887
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: that the KKK had violated their rights and we're basically

888
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: committing racketeering by you know, they were essentially organized crime,

889
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: and that they were trying to get a monopoly on

890
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: the fishing in the area, which is true even if

891
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: they're purpose behind it was racism or whatever, you know.

892
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: And the plaintiff class was all Vietnamese fishermen in the area,

893
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: and the cases called Vietnamese Fishermen's Association versus Knights of

894
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: the Ku Klux Klan one and in this they proved

895
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: one is not that long. I know, they proved in

896
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: court that a local militia group, the Texas Emergency Reserve,

897
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: was a was the military wing of the KKK, and

898
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: they provided security at clan rallies and there was of

899
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: these militiamen uh and it was shut down, yeah, by

900
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: by this lawsuit, by the work of the Vietnamese Fishermen's Association,

901
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: who won an injunction against the group activities that prevented

902
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: the militia or the KKK from military training or parading

903
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: with firearms, which ended the militia for good, which is

904
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: really funny to me. Sorry, wow, it's funny to me

905
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: that the guys who are that going and be like, sorry, guys,

906
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 1: burning crosses and threatening people with guns is illegal. Now,

907
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: time to go home. Like that worked on them. Yeah,

908
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe I feel like it's I don't

909
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: want to like have beat this cynical, but like it

910
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: probably had a lot to do with like just the

911
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: the type of judge they had and the people that

912
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: were decided stuff. You know, like it could have gone

913
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: a much different way. So I think there's a bit

914
00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: of luck they're yeah, which is like I mean again

915
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: and whatever, I guess it's been made clear my opinion

916
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: about law, but like you know, different tactics like right,

917
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: like because like going and fighting them too. Right, It's

918
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 1: like sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't because it's

919
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: not like justice prevailed because it always does. Right. Instead,

920
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: it's like we tried to fight them through this avenue

921
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: and it worked, Yeah, which is great, Like sometimes the

922
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: law does its actual job. And forty years later, the

923
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: Vietnamese community is still there and the KKK is a

924
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,439
Speaker 1: shadow of its former fucking self. Hell yeah, a few

925
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 1: more and just there's so many of them. I didn't

926
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: get to know. I didn't know, Like this is the thing,

927
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: Like I had no idea what these things happened, and

928
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: that the KKK was sucked over so much. I want

929
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: to hear about the times the KKK was sucked up.

930
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: In ninety six, the Lumbi people and Indigenous people and

931
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: what's currently called North Carolina sucked up a clan gathering

932
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: and sent sent them packing and stopped them from organizing

933
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: in Robisson County, North Carolina. And I cover that story

934
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: a different episode if people want to hear it. It's

935
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: in the second half of the Civil War. Within the

936
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: Civil War episode with prop and it's worth checking out.

937
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: It's a fucking awesome story the event itself, if you

938
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: want to look into it on your own. It's called

939
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: the Battle of Hayes pond Um and just rules and

940
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into it the second time,

941
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 1: but you'll should look into it then. To talk about

942
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: modern resistance to the KKK, which I think I'm defining

943
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: as I was alive during um, that's fair not modern

944
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: three modern because the scene uh well not on this

945
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: particular scene that would have been impressive with me. But

946
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: you're like somewhere out there. Yeah, the clan marched on Austin, Texas,

947
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: about seventy of them humbers. Yeah, yeah, their numbers are

948
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: not what they used to be. I mean good, I'm glad.

949
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. They faced two thousand counterprotesters, which were organized.

950
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: I feel if you show up and only seven new

951
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: people aren't they're just like not canceled. What do you think?

952
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: How do you think this is gonna go? Guys? What

953
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: do you think it's gonna happen? Two thousand counter protesters

954
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: organized by the local chapter of the Brown Berets, which

955
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: is a militant pro Chicano organization in conjunction with the

956
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: John Brown Anti Clan Committee, which is a group of

957
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: mostly white anti imperialist activists, And this kind of in

958
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: some way sets to the stage for how a lot

959
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: of the modern clan confrontations go, which is small numbers

960
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: of clans people are willing to show their face in public,

961
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 1: and then they hide behind cops by getting permits out

962
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: and stuff. So the police protected the clan from protesters.

963
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: A handful of cops and anti clan protesters were injured

964
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: in the fighting as people are trying to get through

965
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: the cops to get to the clan, and people went

966
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: and fucked up clan vehicles. They marched again in Austin,

967
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: Texas because I guess the tenure anniversary. They were like, Oh,

968
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna totally get at this time. Guys, We got

969
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: it right. It went't even worse for them. About fifty

970
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: of them showed up. Wow, you just gotta cancel, Like

971
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: what you show up and there's fifty of you, That's

972
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: that's like a crowded public school classroom. Like yeah, I

973
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: don't know, five thousand people pelted them with eggs and

974
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: shouted them down and mooned them. And you know, I

975
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: mentioned that in the twenties, some gangs made a truce

976
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: to fight the clan. Yeah, I get to tell you

977
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: another story about that. Almost a hundred years later. Who

978
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: is moderate. After the white supremacist terror attack on a

979
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: black church in Charleston, South Carolina, the state was like,

980
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's trying to take the Confederate flagdown

981
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: from our state House grounds. Um. And in case there

982
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: was any doubt in anyone's mind that the Confederate flag

983
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: is like some kind of neutral symbol these days, the

984
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: group that got together to rally and defense of their

985
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: Southern heritage and specifically the Confederate flag was the fucking

986
00:56:55,200 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: KKK was it along with their allies the National Socialists?

987
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god? And of course they didn't frame it

988
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: as this is a clan and Nazi rally, even though

989
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: they were the groups that were like, no, no, no no,

990
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: we're the clan and where the Nazis. They were like,

991
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: we're defending our southern heritage or whatever. They called for

992
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: a rally to stop the flag from being taken down

993
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: or whatever. And who stopped them but an informal coalition

994
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: of local black groups, including what appeared to be a

995
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: gang truce between the Bloods, the Crips and the Gangster

996
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: Disciples supported in Charleston, South Carolina. Interesting, okay, supported by

997
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: another smaller informal coalition of anti fascist and anarchists. This

998
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: is as observed by one participant. If you want to

999
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: hear a full breakdown of that day, you can listen

1000
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: to the podcast The Final Straw Radio. Look for the

1001
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: title Anti KKK Rally Interview from and basically as a

1002
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: participant who is there as a as a an anarchist

1003
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: from from the South was there and and was observing

1004
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: on what they saw. Um, obviously that's the history I

1005
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: want to know about. Yeah, no, totally. And like when

1006
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: you talk about things that are like real modern and

1007
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: our crimes, you have to like kind of be a

1008
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: little bit not super specific about things. So I guess,

1009
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean we're finally I mean, I'm very young. Since

1010
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: is the first date you've mentioned that I've been alive for? Um, no,

1011
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, but but no it is. I guess that

1012
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: was really recent, yea, being on podcast like this, I think,

1013
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: I like, time becomes like a made up thing, like

1014
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: everything is like a temporal or something. It was not

1015
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: that long ago, yea. It was like I don't know.

1016
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: Especially COVID I think has made everything seemed really far away.

1017
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: But that was not long ago totally. It was, but

1018
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: in the before times, it's like if you're hanging out

1019
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: in like three A D like five b C is

1020
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: like fucking yeah, way back. I have literally no idea

1021
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: when people came up with a d NBC but whatever,

1022
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: something about christ and so more like formal anti racist

1023
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: groups held a rally, which is fine and good, but

1024
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: the Klansmen were chased around town and beaten the ship

1025
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: by this other group that was unified more or less

1026
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: by one thing. It's good to drive the clan out

1027
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: of your town with violence. People partied in the streets

1028
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: with their stolen Confederate flags. At one point a racist

1029
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: was like driving away and like away from a crowd

1030
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: and was trying to be like whatever, fuck you and

1031
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: then like you know, hit the gas to like speed

1032
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: off and then just drove right into a lamppost. Yeah,

1033
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: that's cosmic justice right there. And with that image, I

1034
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: think that's where we're gonna leave it today. There's so

1035
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: many more stories about it's a beautiful image to sign off.

1036
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. Yeah, sometimes I mean it's it's

1037
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: it's okay not to be a cynic. You know. The

1038
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: world is like I want to fight back and give

1039
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: this little nut good of joy to you. Yeah, and

1040
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: sometimes they do that work for you by driving into

1041
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: a lamppost because they're so mad about your existence. Yeah,

1042
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: that's that's that's crazy to be so mad about just

1043
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: being so hateful that you just you you funk yourself up.

1044
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just very something funny about that. Um,

1045
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: but wow, thank you. Speaking of wow, Sharne, is there

1046
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: anything you'd like to plug? Is that we're saying goodbye

1047
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: now we're saying I mean, unless you have closing thoughts. Yeah,

1048
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just really uh every I mean, I

1049
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: just learned so much on the show because I just

1050
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm bad at learning things on my own these days.

1051
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate all the knowledge because there is

1052
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,959
Speaker 1: just so much history and stuff that doesn't get it's

1053
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: deserved attention. So I appreciate the show for being like,

1054
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: you know what, it's not all bad because people have

1055
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: been fine since the dawn of time and that's the

1056
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: only reason that we're still around. I don't know, it's

1057
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 1: it's good to remember that because again, I can be

1058
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: really cynical, So feeling even like a figment of hope

1059
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: is it's pretty impressive for me. I mean, is that

1060
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: kind of one of the reasons that you're a fun

1061
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: guest is that you come in like very misanthropic and

1062
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun. Yeah. Well, because like just look

1063
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: at the current. It's hard to trust, you know, it's

1064
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: so so Yeah, I'm glad I learned all this stuff.

1065
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that there are as many good dorks

1066
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: as there are dumb doors. You know. I'm glad, I'm

1067
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad because yeah, it just gives me

1068
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,959
Speaker 1: some hope for the dorks out there. Um, but yeah,

1069
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: thanks for having me with the image never mind sright,

1070
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: go ahead with the mirror image of patriot front. Be patriot,

1071
01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, be the patriot behind the front. Yeah, the

1072
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: patriot but yeah for sure. Yeah yeah. Anyway, Yeah that

1073
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: was poetic. And you know what else is poetic? The

1074
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: book of poetry Sharon wrote that you can purchase you

1075
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: don't have to. I have to have a lot of

1076
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: embarrassment about everything I've ever done, and that one in particular,

1077
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: I don't know it doesn't matter. You can. You can

1078
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: just follow me around on the internet if you desire

1079
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: bad No, I don't want to. My instagram is Shiro

1080
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: Hero and my six because you know six six through

1081
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: the horns, but it doesn't translate on an audio the

1082
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: price of your book like sixteen and sixty six. But no,

1083
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean like poetry is a stretch. I just kind

1084
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: of like published my diary, which is really exposing sometimes,

1085
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: so I think that's what makes me nervous. But it's fun.

1086
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: Honesty is good, you guys. Honesty is good. I agree.

1087
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: That's why I was like, I know that when I

1088
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: was telling you about the ghosts thing, and you were like, no,

1089
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: you're fucking with me, I'm like, no, I don't. I

1090
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: mean I only funk with people for very short grades

1091
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: of time immediately that would but that it could have

1092
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: gone either way, and a ghost thing, like are you

1093
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: kidding me? Like, I there's this thing I do, okay

1094
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: if I'm not If I'm talking to someone and for

1095
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: whatever reason, they don't hear me, they don't answer me.

1096
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: It happens a lot with my family. I'll just stand

1097
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: there and be like, am I a ghost? And usually

1098
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: they don't respond. And I'm like, okay, I'm a ghost now,

1099
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: and so I just like continue my life as a ghost.

1100
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: So the ghost thing really threw me off. There's like

1101
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 1: a fascination where I have with Little Ghost Ease because

1102
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: in a different world that club is still around and

1103
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: it's like cute and beautiful and it's a pac Man

1104
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: Confederate Officers start with better. Yes, exactly. It's it's really

1105
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: interesting to see how things evolves. So but yeah, this

1106
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: was fun to learn about for Mary. Do you have

1107
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: any plugs for us at the end? You mean, like

1108
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: December eight, which is the live show where I'm a

1109
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: guest on Alive behind the Bastards and you get to

1110
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: watch my face slowly turned to horror as I learned

1111
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: about something terrible. And then are people able to ask questions?

1112
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: They are able to ask questions? Yeah, when you buy tickets,

1113
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: will be prompted to submit your question ahead of time,

1114
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: and you can buy tickets at moment House stock co

1115
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: slash bTB. Yeah, it's gonna be more fun than the

1116
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: tone of my voice is making it. I mean, this

1117
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: show is kind of like antithesis of BTV, just like

1118
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: in some ways, like the So it was basically designed

1119
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: to make it so that my life wasn't so sad.

1120
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: How's it, how's it working out? How's it working out

1121
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: the best? Yeah? Anyways, we'll be back next week with

1122
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: another cool person or did something cool or a group

1123
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: of people or something something. Margaret the cool cool, Cool

1124
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: is cool because Margaret is cool and that's cool and

1125
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: bye bye cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a

1126
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool

1127
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

1128
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

1129
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.