WEBVTT - “Grieving the Man I Thought My Husband Was” 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:33.836 Pushkin. Well, Michael placed it very succinctly in my lap 0:00:34.036 --> 0:00:37.836 by texting me one day and he said, stop farting around, Messing. 0:00:37.956 --> 0:00:41.036 Life is short. We should be together and you're perfect. 0:00:42.476 --> 0:00:45.196 What are you going to do with that? I said, well, 0:00:45.236 --> 0:00:46.916 you could take it slow, and he said, yeah, we 0:00:46.916 --> 0:00:48.396 could take it slow, but I'm going to marry the 0:00:48.436 --> 0:00:49.956 fuck out of you one day, which is the way 0:00:49.956 --> 0:00:52.156 to talk to me about marriage, because the idea of 0:00:52.196 --> 0:00:55.916 marriage is a quarrant to me. I come from divorce. 0:00:56.156 --> 0:01:00.156 I had a divorce myself. It wasn't particularly interesting to me. 0:01:00.996 --> 0:01:04.436 And for some reason, his words, he is a writer, 0:01:04.756 --> 0:01:09.636 His words hit me and I bit. That's Susan and Messing. 0:01:09.876 --> 0:01:13.436 She's a comedian and an improviser who performs all over Chicago. 0:01:14.196 --> 0:01:18.076 Nine years ago, she married another comedian, Michael McCarthy, a 0:01:18.156 --> 0:01:21.276 beloved member of Chicago's Second City and a former writer 0:01:21.356 --> 0:01:26.076 for Saturday Night Live. Tragically, in twenty twenty, Michael passed 0:01:26.076 --> 0:01:29.996 away from a rare form of cancer. Michael had left 0:01:29.996 --> 0:01:33.036 Susan with fifty or so boxes of his writings and journals, 0:01:33.636 --> 0:01:36.436 and as part of her grieving process, Susan was intent 0:01:36.596 --> 0:01:38.916 on honoring his memory in his life as a writer. 0:01:39.716 --> 0:01:41.836 So she started to sift through the boxes he had 0:01:41.916 --> 0:01:46.196 left behind for her. I did start discovering this guy 0:01:46.676 --> 0:01:50.236 who was not for me, not for the world, for 0:01:50.276 --> 0:01:52.516 the world, he was exactly who he was. But for 0:01:52.676 --> 0:01:57.396 my personal relationship. I was getting the sinking feeling of oh, 0:01:58.036 --> 0:02:02.756 the saint, the guy I thought he was. On today's 0:02:02.756 --> 0:02:06.396 episode a story of what happens when you opened Pandora's box. 0:02:09.916 --> 0:02:13.276 I'm doctor Maya Schunker. I'm a cognitive scientist who studies 0:02:13.316 --> 0:02:16.196 how and why we change. On this show, you'll hear 0:02:16.236 --> 0:02:20.156 from people who've navigated extraordinary change in their lives, and 0:02:20.236 --> 0:02:23.116 my hope is that you'll leave each episode thinking differently 0:02:23.196 --> 0:02:29.596 about change in your own life. This is a slight 0:02:29.716 --> 0:02:32.676 change of plans, a show about who we are and 0:02:32.676 --> 0:02:46.876 who we become in the face of a big change. So, Susan, 0:02:47.396 --> 0:02:49.796 you and Michael had known each other for twenty five 0:02:49.876 --> 0:02:53.276 years before getting together, and I'm wondering what led you 0:02:53.316 --> 0:02:58.156 to finally date. I had seen Michael in two thousand 0:02:58.196 --> 0:03:00.876 and six or seven. He was teaching at Chicago. He 0:03:01.316 --> 0:03:03.356 had taken a job as a radio host on a 0:03:03.436 --> 0:03:07.076 morning show, a comedy show, and I had asked my 0:03:07.116 --> 0:03:09.356 friend Kate, I said, what's up with Michael mccarth and 0:03:09.356 --> 0:03:11.676 she said, Oh, he's going through a divorce. And I'm like, oh, 0:03:11.676 --> 0:03:14.116 I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pull. But 0:03:14.236 --> 0:03:16.836 because I wouldn't, because after a divorce, that's when people 0:03:16.876 --> 0:03:19.196 are bitter and shitty, and you don't want to be 0:03:19.236 --> 0:03:23.076 a part of that, at least in any solid sense. 0:03:23.556 --> 0:03:27.156 But I always used to flirt with him, and I 0:03:27.196 --> 0:03:29.116 had always thought Michael was out of my league. He 0:03:29.276 --> 0:03:33.956 was way too smart and kind and funny, and way 0:03:33.996 --> 0:03:37.596 too attractive for me. He's a hot silver fox. I 0:03:37.636 --> 0:03:41.716 was smitten when he decided to put his attentions toward me. 0:03:41.836 --> 0:03:44.396 I was like, I'd be an idiot not to be 0:03:44.476 --> 0:03:48.116 with this human. I'm curious to know what happens when 0:03:48.436 --> 0:03:52.276 two comedy writers get together and get married. I would 0:03:52.276 --> 0:03:53.556 have loved to be a fly on the wall at 0:03:53.556 --> 0:03:56.916 your wedding. What was that like? We're people in stitches 0:03:56.956 --> 0:04:01.636 over your vows. Michael's vows to me were just insane. 0:04:01.916 --> 0:04:04.796 He's the writer in the family, I'm an improviser, I'm 0:04:05.236 --> 0:04:07.836 I'm a talk vomit. And then you have to kind 0:04:07.836 --> 0:04:11.156 of discover what was for breakfast. Michael would write and 0:04:11.316 --> 0:04:14.556 rewrite and then flip it around and then say, if 0:04:14.556 --> 0:04:16.356 this joke was easier, you know, I mean, he was 0:04:16.556 --> 0:04:20.436 very tactical about that, and so, I mean, we pretended 0:04:20.476 --> 0:04:23.196 to do a flip who went first, but honestly I 0:04:23.756 --> 0:04:27.676 had to open because Michael was the headliner. Absolutely. Do 0:04:27.716 --> 0:04:31.876 you remember any specific vows that he shared? Yeah? He 0:04:32.276 --> 0:04:36.436 Oh boy, he's beautiful. First of all, he promised me 0:04:36.476 --> 0:04:40.236 his undying fidelity, not fidelity when it was convenient, not 0:04:40.516 --> 0:04:46.396 French fidelity, which big laugh. He promised that he would 0:04:46.436 --> 0:04:48.156 do anything to take care of me, whether he had 0:04:48.156 --> 0:04:52.356 to be a Walmart reader or work in development in NBC, 0:04:52.676 --> 0:04:55.276 which was big for the writers. They all got a 0:04:55.316 --> 0:04:57.716 chuckle out of that. He said, whoever, fox with you? 0:04:57.796 --> 0:05:02.156 Fox with me? Oh, he's just so glib and charming, 0:05:02.676 --> 0:05:05.356 so charming, and I couldn't believe I was marrying such 0:05:05.356 --> 0:05:08.476 a charming man. So and what did you promise him? 0:05:09.556 --> 0:05:11.996 I promised to love his special needs cat as if 0:05:12.036 --> 0:05:15.636 it were my own. I promised that I would love 0:05:15.716 --> 0:05:19.916 him unequivocally because I described him as a true gentleman 0:05:20.516 --> 0:05:22.676 and said some nice words in that way. But My 0:05:22.796 --> 0:05:25.556 promise to him was to love him unequivocally. That was 0:05:25.676 --> 0:05:29.756 it simple. Can you take me back to the day 0:05:29.796 --> 0:05:35.676 in twenty eighteen when Michael received a cancer diagnosis who 0:05:36.516 --> 0:05:40.156 he had been having trouble beforehand. His left arm felt 0:05:40.196 --> 0:05:44.796 like it was encased in ice water, and they discovered 0:05:44.916 --> 0:05:48.956 a tumor, a glioblastoma in his spinal cord. They seek 0:05:48.996 --> 0:05:52.676 gleoblastomas in brains. Everyone to three weeks. They see this 0:05:53.356 --> 0:05:56.636 maybe every one to three years. It's a It's just 0:05:56.716 --> 0:05:59.996 a bad tumor in a really bad place. And how 0:05:59.996 --> 0:06:03.836 did that express itself? Well? He had to spend a 0:06:03.876 --> 0:06:06.956 month in the rehab unit to simply really learn how 0:06:06.956 --> 0:06:09.676 to walk again. After they went into his next simply 0:06:09.716 --> 0:06:13.916 to get a biopsy. Within minutes of him coming home, 0:06:14.436 --> 0:06:17.476 I had had lifts going from the downstairs to the 0:06:17.596 --> 0:06:20.396 upstairs to our bedroom and to the basement where his 0:06:20.476 --> 0:06:22.996 office was into downstairs. Like all of a sudden, we 0:06:22.996 --> 0:06:27.036 were creating ways to navigate this, and I kept thinking, 0:06:27.076 --> 0:06:29.476 what is going to make Michael feel like a real boy? 0:06:29.556 --> 0:06:32.756 That was so important to me because I could see 0:06:32.796 --> 0:06:34.796 this was a guy who used to bound upstairs and 0:06:34.876 --> 0:06:37.836 now he could barely walk and we did it quietly. 0:06:38.556 --> 0:06:40.476 We tried not to make it a big deal. You 0:06:40.476 --> 0:06:43.876 don't want to be in a sick home when someone's sick. 0:06:44.756 --> 0:06:50.356 I really was constantly conscious of what would make him 0:06:51.476 --> 0:06:56.356 feel as normal as possible. What was his survival rate? 0:06:57.356 --> 0:07:00.076 I think you buy time. I don't think you. I 0:07:00.116 --> 0:07:03.036 don't think you. They said you might live ten years, 0:07:03.036 --> 0:07:05.756 you might live dot but I don't I think they 0:07:05.756 --> 0:07:08.596 said that to be nice. I don't think that you 0:07:08.676 --> 0:07:11.196 feel you knew that kind of right away that they 0:07:11.196 --> 0:07:14.356 were saying that to be nice. Or he worked so 0:07:14.476 --> 0:07:17.396 hard in physical therapy to get better. You could see 0:07:17.476 --> 0:07:21.156 him going from a wheelchair to a walker to a cane. 0:07:21.516 --> 0:07:24.396 He even had a triumphant walk down Lincoln Avenue where 0:07:24.436 --> 0:07:28.276 fifty people came and waved Michael signs and blue whistles. 0:07:28.676 --> 0:07:31.036 And what I said to Michael as we bought time, 0:07:31.596 --> 0:07:33.756 what do you want to do with it? And he 0:07:33.836 --> 0:07:36.956 kept saying that all the time, we've bought time. And 0:07:38.796 --> 0:07:41.036 again I did not want to deal with the fact 0:07:41.036 --> 0:07:44.636 that Michael was handling his mortality while I was preemptively 0:07:44.756 --> 0:07:47.676 grieving in my car. Every day I would go to 0:07:47.716 --> 0:07:50.476 pick up my daughter at school and I would just weep. 0:07:50.756 --> 0:07:53.116 And that's when I called my therapist. I said, m 0:07:53.596 --> 0:07:55.996 guess what lot's happened since I've last spoken to you 0:07:56.036 --> 0:07:58.676 about You know, seven years ago, I met a hot 0:07:58.716 --> 0:08:01.156 silver fox. He is a tumor in his spinal cord, 0:08:01.236 --> 0:08:03.636 and now I'm grieving in the car go. So that's 0:08:03.716 --> 0:08:06.196 kind of the way I took it. I realized that 0:08:06.316 --> 0:08:08.476 my strength at this point was admitting where I was 0:08:08.476 --> 0:08:10.836 super weak and where I was week was I wanted 0:08:10.876 --> 0:08:14.436 to be super present for my husband right now, and 0:08:14.476 --> 0:08:16.836 I felt that I was planning his memorial in my 0:08:16.876 --> 0:08:21.516 brain and that was just not okay for me. So 0:08:21.596 --> 0:08:23.956 in addition to physically caring for him, one way in 0:08:23.996 --> 0:08:26.796 which you expressed your care was to shelter him from 0:08:26.796 --> 0:08:29.316 your own grief. Is that right? Yeah? We tried to 0:08:29.356 --> 0:08:31.516 keep it light. We tried to keep it super super light. 0:08:32.796 --> 0:08:36.476 What impact did his diagnosis have on your relationship? I mean, 0:08:36.476 --> 0:08:39.076 in what ways did your dynamics as a couple shift? 0:08:41.556 --> 0:08:44.916 Who Well, when you're the nurse, it changes, doesn't it 0:08:44.916 --> 0:08:47.476 It changes a lot. Where you're going to have to 0:08:47.476 --> 0:08:53.476 be responsible for urine samples and medicine and all sorts. 0:08:53.476 --> 0:08:57.396 Of stuff, and I tried to keep it more wifely. 0:08:57.636 --> 0:09:01.396 I pretended it was wifely, but I knew. I knew 0:09:01.436 --> 0:09:05.356 it just shifted into nurse mode, full nurse mode, and 0:09:06.236 --> 0:09:08.636 I would ask for support from people, and that that 0:09:08.756 --> 0:09:12.196 was I can't begin to tell you how many people 0:09:12.236 --> 0:09:16.676 helped us. Everyone loved Michael. Everyone loved Michael. He was 0:09:16.756 --> 0:09:20.876 a good human being. That was probably what's that book 0:09:20.916 --> 0:09:23.996 When Bad Things Happened to Great People. That was Michael. 0:09:24.236 --> 0:09:29.476 And Michael started writing these beautiful essays on Facebook. He 0:09:29.516 --> 0:09:32.436 called them beloveds where they were kind of garrison keeler 0:09:32.476 --> 0:09:37.316 folksy musings on life and cancer and all that. And 0:09:37.356 --> 0:09:40.996 he actually helped a lot of people during that time 0:09:41.116 --> 0:09:45.276 where he himself was struggling, you know, and I just 0:09:45.356 --> 0:09:49.436 tried to remain in the background. Did you expect him 0:09:49.436 --> 0:09:53.676 to be so open and vulnerable and public about his 0:09:53.756 --> 0:09:57.236 cancer diagnosis? First of all, I don't think there'd be 0:09:57.316 --> 0:10:00.516 any way to hide it. He was profoundly disabled. And 0:10:00.556 --> 0:10:02.796 this is a guy who had gotten a black belt 0:10:02.836 --> 0:10:06.316 in taekwondo at age fifty three. So this was a 0:10:06.396 --> 0:10:10.436 really active, vibrant human being who was all of a 0:10:10.516 --> 0:10:15.436 sudden hunched over like an old man with a puffy 0:10:15.516 --> 0:10:19.956 steroid face. And Michael always said he was put on 0:10:19.956 --> 0:10:21.996 this planet to help a few people and learn a 0:10:21.996 --> 0:10:25.636 few things. So I think he used this as an 0:10:25.636 --> 0:10:29.356 opportunity to kind of address his mortality in a way 0:10:29.396 --> 0:10:35.436 that was less scary for other people and ultimately for himself. Yeah, 0:10:36.076 --> 0:10:39.756 was there a very definitive moment where you realized my 0:10:39.876 --> 0:10:43.356 husband is about to die? Had you been holding onto 0:10:43.436 --> 0:10:48.236 some hope before? Then? As I'm watching him every day, 0:10:48.276 --> 0:10:52.276 even though he's animated and his mind was completely all there, 0:10:53.516 --> 0:10:55.996 I noticed him getting weaker and weaker. There was one 0:10:56.036 --> 0:10:59.596 point where he was standing up in between the bars 0:11:00.036 --> 0:11:02.196 and he walked with help with like two or three people, 0:11:02.196 --> 0:11:06.836 and I thought, we're going backwards. In the meantime, doctor 0:11:06.876 --> 0:11:09.036 and a social worker walked into Michael's room and said, 0:11:09.196 --> 0:11:13.796 we invite you to consider strongly hospice. And Michael let 0:11:13.836 --> 0:11:21.196 out a sound that I'll never forget because it sounded 0:11:21.236 --> 0:11:23.316 like he thought, oh shit, this is the end of 0:11:23.356 --> 0:11:27.916 the line. And I said, no, honey, no, no no, no, no, 0:11:27.956 --> 0:11:29.596 I'm sorry. We don't have to go into hospice. We 0:11:29.596 --> 0:11:31.916 can stand palliative. Because it was the word hospice that 0:11:31.956 --> 0:11:35.716 all of a sudden it resonated with him, and so 0:11:35.756 --> 0:11:38.356 I went in the car and I called up doctor Fran, 0:11:38.476 --> 0:11:41.196 a friend of ours, and I said, Michael still wants 0:11:41.236 --> 0:11:44.636 to fight. Fran insisted that there was a possibility at 0:11:44.636 --> 0:11:48.196 another hospital, but as we're getting ready to get him 0:11:48.236 --> 0:11:50.356 out of the hospital, he said to me, well, when 0:11:50.356 --> 0:11:52.676 we go to the hospital, can I go on a gurney? 0:11:53.476 --> 0:11:55.036 And I turned to and I said, Michael, I don't 0:11:55.036 --> 0:11:57.036 think we can do that, sweetheart. I think you have 0:11:57.116 --> 0:12:00.076 to be strong enough. This is a pandemic and people 0:12:00.116 --> 0:12:02.316 aren't going to treat you until you're stronger. So I 0:12:02.396 --> 0:12:04.916 used the word stronger, but I knew he was going backwards, 0:12:05.036 --> 0:12:09.196 and so we got him home and after that I 0:12:09.316 --> 0:12:12.436 knew this was the road down. And he died two 0:12:12.476 --> 0:12:14.836 and a half weeks after he came home. He was 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:17.196 completely The sounds so weird, but thank goodness, he was 0:12:17.196 --> 0:12:20.316 completely paralyzed when he died, because he did feel no pain. 0:12:22.196 --> 0:12:25.716 He mentioned that Michael was fully paralyzed at his passing, 0:12:26.436 --> 0:12:29.796 but his brain was very much still alive. What were 0:12:29.796 --> 0:12:34.036 those final moments like, Well, I would say the last 0:12:34.196 --> 0:12:37.916 conversation that anybody would consider Ah, that's sweet or profound 0:12:37.996 --> 0:12:40.196 or whatever. As I said to Michael, how will I know? 0:12:42.076 --> 0:12:47.316 How will I know that you're with me? And he said, 0:12:47.356 --> 0:12:49.756 you'll feel me around you. And then I said why 0:12:49.756 --> 0:12:52.836 did you choose me? And he said you are awesome? 0:12:53.116 --> 0:12:56.396 You are awesome beyond words, and I thought, God, damn it, 0:12:56.436 --> 0:13:00.236 you sweet writer right till the end. Good job, that's 0:13:00.236 --> 0:13:08.236 a punch gut wow. Wow. How do you process that moment? 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:12.156 I think I had worked very, very hard on my 0:13:12.236 --> 0:13:24.956 grieving beforehand, but for me, I was simply sad. I 0:13:25.076 --> 0:13:27.916 was simply sad, and I don't think I've ever lived 0:13:28.476 --> 0:13:35.116 in sadness like that before. You said earlier that Michael 0:13:35.516 --> 0:13:38.916 had left you with fifty boxes of his writings, and 0:13:39.876 --> 0:13:42.836 I can't imagine how raw and vulnerable you must have 0:13:42.916 --> 0:13:46.276 felt in the days and weeks following his death. So 0:13:47.036 --> 0:13:48.716 did it take you some time to muster up the 0:13:48.796 --> 0:13:51.316 strength to open up that first box? I mean, what 0:13:51.396 --> 0:13:54.676 was that process? Like? No? I kind of started it 0:13:54.716 --> 0:13:57.556 pretty quickly because I guess Michael was so organized, and 0:13:57.596 --> 0:14:00.396 I really wanted to honor his possessions. I didn't want 0:14:00.436 --> 0:14:02.276 to just throw them and dumpster and say to hell 0:14:02.316 --> 0:14:04.676 with it. Now. If Michael had said to me, Susan, 0:14:04.796 --> 0:14:07.236 I got fifty plus years of journals and all this crap, 0:14:07.316 --> 0:14:10.116 just get rid of it, I would have. But he 0:14:10.156 --> 0:14:12.396 was a word hoarder. He was a writer, and he 0:14:12.436 --> 0:14:15.476 needed to see. Even when he was sick and he 0:14:15.516 --> 0:14:19.796 was working on a four books, every time he even 0:14:19.796 --> 0:14:23.236 made changes, he would print them up and fan them 0:14:23.276 --> 0:14:26.596 in a beautiful, pleasing OCD way on his coffee table. 0:14:27.036 --> 0:14:29.356 And so I thought, this guy takes the stuff seriously, 0:14:29.676 --> 0:14:32.916 even though I don't. That doesn't mean I can't be 0:14:32.996 --> 0:14:36.836 incredibly respectful. So I kind of started it with an 0:14:36.876 --> 0:14:40.036 idea of, oh, I'll just go through the boxes. And 0:14:40.076 --> 0:14:44.036 then I started reading his journals. And as I'm reading 0:14:44.076 --> 0:14:47.676 his words, which he entrusted me with, I'm starting to 0:14:47.716 --> 0:14:50.476 feel sad because it seems to me that he struggled 0:14:50.516 --> 0:14:55.316 more than I thought. Issues with sex and with debt 0:14:55.716 --> 0:15:00.436 kept coming back again and again, and I don't you know, 0:15:00.516 --> 0:15:06.116 it seemed that he struggled with addiction. And he was 0:15:06.116 --> 0:15:08.796 an alcoholic who was twenty plus a year sober. But 0:15:08.836 --> 0:15:12.276 it's that porn and debt are right next door to that, 0:15:12.436 --> 0:15:14.996 and he struggled with that and I never knew of that, 0:15:15.356 --> 0:15:17.876 so as I'm reading it, I'm kind of thinking to myself, 0:15:18.756 --> 0:15:21.876 what the hell like? This is very new to me. 0:15:23.116 --> 0:15:26.956 And not only that, he had told me that two 0:15:26.996 --> 0:15:29.716 important relationships he had they had cheated on him. And 0:15:29.756 --> 0:15:31.516 I thought, well, I'll never cheat on you. And you 0:15:31.556 --> 0:15:34.676 also promised your dying fidelity, not fidelity one's convenient, not 0:15:34.676 --> 0:15:39.156 French fidelity. So I thought to myself, oh, well, I'll 0:15:39.156 --> 0:15:41.156 never cheat on you, so this is not an issue. 0:15:41.396 --> 0:15:44.956 But what I discovered was Michael was constantly scrambling. He'd 0:15:44.996 --> 0:15:49.236 break up with somebody after he started dating someone else, 0:15:49.556 --> 0:15:52.756 so I guess the kids call it cheating. I did 0:15:52.876 --> 0:15:57.796 start discovering this guy who was not for me, not 0:15:58.196 --> 0:16:00.116 for the world. For the world, he was exactly who 0:16:00.196 --> 0:16:04.436 he was, but for my personal relationship, I was getting 0:16:04.476 --> 0:16:08.076 this sinking feeling of oh, this the same the guy 0:16:08.196 --> 0:16:11.276 I thought he was. But then again, if Michael had said, 0:16:11.316 --> 0:16:13.716 don't read my word, Susan for all him out there, 0:16:13.756 --> 0:16:16.436 you know, I would have absolutely followed his directive. But 0:16:16.556 --> 0:16:19.276 because my friend Paula said to me, while Susan, I 0:16:19.276 --> 0:16:22.636 think he wants you to know, I thought to myself, no, well, 0:16:22.676 --> 0:16:26.556 no matter how confusing this is or maybe even hurtful, 0:16:27.436 --> 0:16:29.756 I am going to have to plod through this in 0:16:29.996 --> 0:16:34.196 waiters and I'll slog through the mud. Because Paula thought 0:16:34.196 --> 0:16:38.316 that he would want me to know him totally, because 0:16:38.316 --> 0:16:40.316 otherwise she thought he would have cleaned up his side 0:16:40.316 --> 0:16:43.836 of the street. Right. And so one day, when I 0:16:43.876 --> 0:16:46.276 was going through the boxes, I found an old list 0:16:46.316 --> 0:16:50.276 of passcodes and I looked at them and there was 0:16:50.356 --> 0:16:53.796 one number three to four zeven zero, and I thought, well, 0:16:53.836 --> 0:16:55.596 that's not the Jewish New Year, that's a couple of 0:16:55.636 --> 0:16:58.036 decades ago, that's not his mom's birthday. It just was 0:16:58.076 --> 0:17:01.996 sitting there. It didn't say phone password. And I'm thinking 0:17:01.996 --> 0:17:05.356 to myself, the one password I have not gotten from 0:17:05.636 --> 0:17:09.396 my husband is his phone password. It was not on 0:17:10.036 --> 0:17:13.116 the spreadsheet which somebody had filled out for me of 0:17:13.156 --> 0:17:15.996 all of his passwords. Because I knew I needed, ultimately 0:17:16.076 --> 0:17:19.116 to deal with Sears warranty and Anderson Past Control or 0:17:19.116 --> 0:17:22.396 whatever the case may be, the bills that he paid online. 0:17:22.436 --> 0:17:24.316 I wanted to make sure that was taken care of. 0:17:24.836 --> 0:17:27.836 So I just put it in the phone and it 0:17:27.956 --> 0:17:31.756 opened up, and when it opened up, I was so 0:17:31.836 --> 0:17:34.756 grateful because I thought to myself, Michael has friends who 0:17:34.796 --> 0:17:37.676 are not of my generation that might not have known 0:17:38.356 --> 0:17:42.196 about his death and all the accolades and the oh bits, 0:17:42.276 --> 0:17:45.716 and they hadn't seen that. So there were people that 0:17:45.796 --> 0:17:48.436 I thought to myself, I can tell them now that 0:17:48.516 --> 0:17:51.716 he's dead and feel good about that. So I opened 0:17:51.716 --> 0:17:56.436 it up in the top. The top thread was with 0:17:56.476 --> 0:18:01.036 a woman named Meredith, and it started March thirty first, 0:18:01.516 --> 0:18:06.036 and he died on April eighth. And he said, how's everything. 0:18:06.956 --> 0:18:11.636 I have profound neuropathy and it's making it hard to type. 0:18:11.716 --> 0:18:14.876 I love you. And then she said, baby, baby, baby, 0:18:14.916 --> 0:18:17.676 I love you so much. Prayer hands, prayer hands, hearts, hearts, hearts. 0:18:18.116 --> 0:18:22.516 And then she said, baby, could you send me fifty 0:18:22.516 --> 0:18:27.556 dollars for childcare? I hate to ask, baby, baby, baby hearts, hearts, hearts, 0:18:28.756 --> 0:18:30.636 and I thought childcare, and I'm like, does he have 0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:33.116 another child I don't know about, Like what's going on here? 0:18:33.676 --> 0:18:37.156 And then I keep scrolling down and she says, baby, 0:18:37.276 --> 0:18:41.676 thank you so much. Baby. What would I do without you? Baby? Babies, babies, 0:18:42.156 --> 0:18:47.716 And I'm staring at this and this horrible sinking feeling 0:18:47.836 --> 0:18:50.516 comes over me as I'm doing this. This is slow motion, 0:18:51.116 --> 0:18:54.196 and I still alone in this basement about ten feet away, 0:18:54.316 --> 0:18:58.476 and said, oh no, because as the days went on, 0:18:58.596 --> 0:19:01.756 she asked for more and more money, and I'm I'm 0:19:01.796 --> 0:19:03.956 the keeper of the flame, and I'm thinking, well, that's 0:19:03.996 --> 0:19:07.156 the day he stopped eating, and that's the day that 0:19:07.316 --> 0:19:10.356 pills went into liquids, and that's the day he died. 0:19:10.396 --> 0:19:12.956 You're still asking for money on the day that he died. 0:19:14.996 --> 0:19:17.676 And so I wrote her on Michael's phone, which I 0:19:17.676 --> 0:19:20.636 can only imagine how jarring that is. And I just 0:19:20.676 --> 0:19:23.316 wrote to her, I said, who are you? My husband 0:19:23.396 --> 0:19:30.276 is dead. We'll be back in a moment. With a 0:19:30.316 --> 0:19:44.116 slight change of plans. Susan had discovered that her husband, Michael, 0:19:44.316 --> 0:19:46.956 was not the person she thought he was, and that 0:19:47.036 --> 0:19:49.796 he'd been communicating with another woman through his final days, 0:19:50.076 --> 0:19:54.516 a woman named Meredith. Susan desperately needed answers, so she 0:19:54.636 --> 0:19:58.596 texted her. I said, who are you? My husband died 0:19:58.636 --> 0:20:03.116 of cancer. And then I went to his computer. It's 0:20:03.116 --> 0:20:06.236 the first time I've ever done that, plugged in his 0:20:06.436 --> 0:20:09.836 password and he had pretty much scrub to his computer, 0:20:09.916 --> 0:20:12.396 but he found a couple of choice moments from twenty 0:20:12.436 --> 0:20:16.556 seventeen which means he was doing this before he was sick, 0:20:18.156 --> 0:20:23.156 and one of them was super porny and the other 0:20:23.316 --> 0:20:24.996 was from Michael where he's like, I guess I'm going 0:20:25.076 --> 0:20:27.516 to have to erase some of our videos. Ha ha ha. 0:20:29.756 --> 0:20:33.876 I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, this is not happening. 0:20:34.396 --> 0:20:40.396 The worst case scenario is happening. It's happening, and it's 0:20:41.676 --> 0:20:44.836 happening to me. I just nursed him to his death 0:20:44.876 --> 0:20:48.356 and he's and now I'm grieving in an international pandemic 0:20:48.396 --> 0:20:51.956 and it's happening to me. And now this woman isn't biting. 0:20:52.916 --> 0:20:55.036 She's not going to say anything because now I went 0:20:55.036 --> 0:20:57.076 into his Chase account and found that she had sent 0:20:57.196 --> 0:21:00.196 him a significant He had sent her a significant amount 0:21:00.196 --> 0:21:04.116 of money from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty when he died, 0:21:04.236 --> 0:21:07.516 and I'd pretty much quit my life to care for him. 0:21:07.796 --> 0:21:10.596 I had been teaching for I Owe the Annoyance the 0:21:10.636 --> 0:21:14.476 Second City University of Chicago school at Steppenwolf DePaul University 0:21:14.676 --> 0:21:18.556 and around the world, and performing as well in different 0:21:18.596 --> 0:21:22.036 theaters every single week, and I just said I'm done. 0:21:22.556 --> 0:21:24.996 And it was easy to say I'm done, because when 0:21:25.036 --> 0:21:27.236 the shit hits the fan. It's very easy to say, 0:21:27.476 --> 0:21:32.396 this is your priority. Very easy. So when Meredith would 0:21:32.436 --> 0:21:37.356 not bite, because why would she, because I was scaring 0:21:37.396 --> 0:21:39.756 the shit out of her from a dead man's cell phone, 0:21:41.596 --> 0:21:44.476 I said, look, I'm so sorry if I scared you, 0:21:44.836 --> 0:21:47.996 I bring you peace. I simply need to know answers 0:21:48.076 --> 0:21:53.436 because I don't have answers and I can't ask him anymore. 0:21:53.476 --> 0:21:55.276 So I was wondering if you would speak to me, 0:21:57.156 --> 0:22:02.196 and she bit, she bit, and I appreciate it. I 0:22:02.236 --> 0:22:06.476 appreciate it. She was very brave. So I spoke to her. 0:22:06.836 --> 0:22:10.516 And she's a single mother in Hawaii, and no, he 0:22:10.636 --> 0:22:15.676 is not the father of her daughter. And I said, 0:22:15.716 --> 0:22:18.876 what did he say about us? First of all, she 0:22:18.916 --> 0:22:21.876 apologized up and down in sideways. She pretty much fessed 0:22:21.956 --> 0:22:23.876 up to being a petty grifter because I had also 0:22:23.876 --> 0:22:26.996 by then found porn threads of theirs that you know, 0:22:27.236 --> 0:22:29.356 I was like these for being such a good writer, 0:22:29.436 --> 0:22:32.356 you're a shitty porn writer, Michael, God bless. But she 0:22:32.436 --> 0:22:35.316 became very human to me, very quickly, very human to me. 0:22:35.996 --> 0:22:39.676 And she said that he told her that I was 0:22:39.676 --> 0:22:42.556 bisexual in an open marriage, and I was like shit, 0:22:42.676 --> 0:22:44.716 I'd be getting laid right now if that were true, 0:22:44.756 --> 0:22:48.236 you know, right like in no, it's not my thing. 0:22:48.636 --> 0:22:50.276 And by the end she sort of tried to meet 0:22:50.316 --> 0:22:52.356 to it by saying that Michael promised to get her 0:22:52.396 --> 0:22:56.556 a writing agent, and then he said, no, let's write 0:22:56.556 --> 0:22:59.596 a porn novel together because we'll make a lot of 0:22:59.636 --> 0:23:04.476 money and help our families. And I, again, I just 0:23:04.596 --> 0:23:08.916 tried my best to keep up with her. I recorded 0:23:08.916 --> 0:23:12.116 it like a bad podcast. It was over three hours. 0:23:12.196 --> 0:23:14.276 I felt like good cop, bad cop because I kind 0:23:14.316 --> 0:23:16.276 of tried to tell her, you know, ask her the 0:23:16.316 --> 0:23:19.556 same question in seven different ways. And I guess she 0:23:19.676 --> 0:23:23.156 felt that the truth would set her free, and so 0:23:23.956 --> 0:23:29.236 I appreciated it. And after we spoke, I texted her 0:23:29.276 --> 0:23:31.596 that she was really brave because she was because it's 0:23:31.596 --> 0:23:37.236 hard to admit when you make choices that you know 0:23:37.476 --> 0:23:41.316 somewhere in your recesses aren't okay too. They're just not 0:23:41.436 --> 0:23:44.596 okay because she was using him and he was using her. 0:23:45.196 --> 0:23:47.236 And I said to her, I think you guys canceled 0:23:47.276 --> 0:23:53.556 each other out. You know, why do you think Michael 0:23:54.516 --> 0:23:56.796 didn't work to hide all of this from you before 0:23:56.836 --> 0:23:59.956 he passed away. He could have just asked you throughout 0:23:59.996 --> 0:24:04.236 these boxes, throughout the passwords. You know, I think sometimes 0:24:04.276 --> 0:24:07.076 maybe I don't know because I haven't died before, but 0:24:07.156 --> 0:24:09.116 I don't think men think they're going to die sometimes 0:24:09.116 --> 0:24:12.716 times I see, I don't think I was also asking 0:24:12.716 --> 0:24:16.196 you to throw those away. Maybe psychologically, was him surrendering 0:24:16.236 --> 0:24:19.596 to his death right. Yeah, that's a good way to 0:24:19.636 --> 0:24:24.636 put it. Good semantic adjustment. Good enow' I'm just postulating here. 0:24:25.076 --> 0:24:28.756 It's a good postulating. Take it. Look, I'm coming to 0:24:28.796 --> 0:24:32.436 you for as much clarity and healing as as as 0:24:32.476 --> 0:24:36.396 this story is bizarre and salacious, and I was compelled 0:24:36.436 --> 0:24:40.596 to read because I needed to know his truth. I 0:24:40.716 --> 0:24:43.196 needed to know his truth, and so I put the 0:24:43.196 --> 0:24:47.436