Speaker 1: M m m m. You're listening to playback a Variety
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards editor
Speaker 1: Chris Tapley. This week, OSCAR nominated actor Timothy Shallowm is
Speaker 1: on the show here to discuss his work in the
Speaker 1: new film Beautiful Boy. We dig into that and this
Speaker 1: head spinning moment. Shallowm is enjoying a twenty two year
Speaker 1: old star, fast on the rise, navigating his developing career,
Speaker 1: and of course learning a lot along the way. So
Speaker 1: sit tight, this is playback. Yeah, we have a breakfast
Speaker 1: clod More all right, So he's just gonna pop this
Speaker 1: real fast and you can tell me what you had
Speaker 1: for breakfast or something. Um this morning was what did
Speaker 1: I have for someoneing scrambled eggs, baking him? Um, balking up,
Speaker 1: bulking up. No, I'm not, but I was. I was
Speaker 1: for I was for the King and uh and uh wow.
Speaker 1: I literally don't look stress that camera right there almost anyway,
Speaker 1: it's distracting. Yeah, no, no, but that's a good. How
Speaker 1: are you doing? Pretty good? Man? I've always lived another
Speaker 1: there or now no, well, thirteen years, it feels like always. No.
Speaker 1: I'm from beck, South North Carolina. Actually we're getting hammered
Speaker 1: right now, Charlotte. You from the hurricane. Oh sorry, college, No,
Speaker 1: that's what they are, that's true, but no, yeah, it's uh,
Speaker 1: the hurricane just just hit right now. Yeah, but the
Speaker 1: last couple of days or it was like the middle
Speaker 1: of the night. The I finally hit going really slow.
Speaker 1: So that's the problem. It's a slow moving storm. But
Speaker 1: I've got family on the east side. I hung out
Speaker 1: on the west, on the west side of the state,
Speaker 1: grew up over there. I went to phone school over there,
Speaker 1: and so would you would you kind of school arts? Yes,
Speaker 1: no way, really, I have a lot of friends who
Speaker 1: go there. Lucas did. Yeah, Lucas went there for a year.
Speaker 1: I think a friend of me, Andrew Manning, that went there.
Speaker 1: It's actually not that cool here. It's fine, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's fine. No, no no, no, sorry, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put my phone here. Okay, we're recording everybody. I'm here
Speaker 1: with Timothy shallow May today, the star of Beautiful Boy, Uh,
Speaker 1: the star of countless movies. It feels like lately you're everywhere.
Speaker 1: Do you feel ubiquitous, by the way, do I feel whatsubiquitous?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're everywhere. I don't know what
Speaker 1: that word means. It means everywhere everywhere. Uh no, not
Speaker 1: not not right this second, No, not yet. Anyway, it's
Speaker 1: a good thing. It's you know, you know, especially at
Speaker 1: the stage in your career. First of all, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for coming on the show. I really appreciate
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I look through the uh
Speaker 1: list of who's been on here, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people I look up to. God. Yeah, had Greta
Speaker 1: insertsch on here last year. That was a fun one.
Speaker 1: I wanted to actually mention don't you probably don't remember this,
Speaker 1: but we met actually on the set of Hostiles. Were
Speaker 1: actually in the Santa Fe hotel you were staying and
Speaker 1: you and John Majors came downstairs. You're about to go
Speaker 1: out for the night. And I was there to do
Speaker 1: a story like I was the journalist that was kind
Speaker 1: of walking around on Christian No, it was on just
Speaker 1: the production story on the movie. Oh my gosh, Wow,
Speaker 1: I was there for a couple of days. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: that was a crazy hotel or not crazy, but it
Speaker 1: was interesting. It was interesting, it was nice, but um,
Speaker 1: that was like pre Sundance called me by your name
Speaker 1: that was. That was a great experiencing, a great project
Speaker 1: to work on. Like I said, Christian was on it.
Speaker 1: Christian always one of my favorite actors, so you know,
Speaker 1: I dropped drop a line and seen sometimes just watching
Speaker 1: him act. And I'm not kidding about that. People that
Speaker 1: have actually seen the movie will go, but wait a second.
Speaker 1: You only have like two speaking scenes in it, and
Speaker 1: I'm here to say there were more, but they're just
Speaker 1: not in the movie. Yes, Cooper is a body of mindself.
Speaker 1: He's absolutely awesome. But I remember that Jonathan like we were.
Speaker 1: We were like really tight on that thing because um,
Speaker 1: because you kind of both played similar like inciliary roles
Speaker 1: to Mr Baale. Did you see White Boy Rick? No?
Speaker 1: I haven't, and I love career. I wept after my
Speaker 1: White audition. Actually I wept after my White Boy Rick audition. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was only well know, I've been very upset after things,
Speaker 1: but I've never wept after an audition. But that was
Speaker 1: something where I came in like super charged up, and
Speaker 1: they didn't want they weren't auditioning anybody in their twenties,
Speaker 1: let alone actors, because you really wanted to find like
Speaker 1: you think of seventy one which is Yhon's other movie
Speaker 1: that I'm really crazy about too, And that wasn't Jack
Speaker 1: O'Connell's first movie, but it was one of his first movies.
Speaker 1: It wasn't his first. I don't know. I think Startup
Speaker 1: might have been. Yeah, yeah, really've been mentalon yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: um but yeah not so. I haven't seen an yet,
Speaker 1: but I'm but I'm dynaste. I'm kinda has in it too,
Speaker 1: and tell your right. Actually, actually I wanted to start
Speaker 1: there with, you know, just your year last year. You
Speaker 1: could take me through it because it was obviously like
Speaker 1: it was a whirlwind year for you. You had called
Speaker 1: me by your name, you had Ladybird, you had hostiles
Speaker 1: as well, and you ended up with the Oscar nomination.
Speaker 1: And you know, people don't realize that when you debut
Speaker 1: a movie and sun Dance and you're still with it,
Speaker 1: you know, thirteen fourteen months later promotion wise, essentially, like
Speaker 1: you know, through the Oscar season. That's a huge haul
Speaker 1: and this is the start of your career essentially. So
Speaker 1: what was that year like for you looking at in
Speaker 1: the hall in the sense of like just the just
Speaker 1: the workout put the work and just the length of
Speaker 1: time that you're with that, you're with a movie. Yeah, exactly. No,
Speaker 1: that was the not irony any week, because that wouldn't
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm playing negativeness to it, and it
Speaker 1: really wasn't. But it was a it was an exercise
Speaker 1: in keeping it fresh or certainly like when I was
Speaker 1: talking about the movie, particularly because um, I remember a
Speaker 1: friend of mine being a movie had I was really
Speaker 1: league crazy about and like and telling him how much
Speaker 1: it had affected me. And he wasn't in genuine that's
Speaker 1: not a word, well whatever the opposite of genuine. He
Speaker 1: wasn't in genuine in any way. Um, But he had
Speaker 1: just heard it so many times that like I always
Speaker 1: uh not that I heard so many times. But I
Speaker 1: just remember that moment thinking, Okay, he's not purposefully rubbing
Speaker 1: anyone in the negative way, but I that you know,
Speaker 1: I wanted I never wanted anyone to think that. Um.
Speaker 1: And to this day, like, there's so much gratitude for
Speaker 1: that movie and for the for the experience of that movie,
Speaker 1: for the fact that the movie exists almost in a vacuum,
Speaker 1: but then the fact that a lot of people, and
Speaker 1: especially like young people saw it and connected with it.
Speaker 1: That's really that was that was really a dream come true.
Speaker 1: And saw him going a little off topic here because
Speaker 1: you said, what was I like to do, you know,
Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen months? And the truth is, like, it was
Speaker 1: all That's what I was saying at the time. It's
Speaker 1: really how I feel about it now. It was all
Speaker 1: just uh so thrilling and so new and uh uh.
Speaker 1: And I was with the Army and Luca, who I
Speaker 1: knew very well, um that it it always simply felt
Speaker 1: like a dream come true. And that's the thing. That's
Speaker 1: kind of what I was saying last year, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't being in genuine again. And but I will say
Speaker 1: that's you know, we did our first interview I think
Speaker 1: it was the Wall Street Journal with Felix and Steve Carrell,
Speaker 1: Felix not going again for Beautiful Boy, and it was
Speaker 1: really odd not knowing exactly how Army or Luca would
Speaker 1: have answered the questions. Um. Obviously they were not literally
Speaker 1: Army and Luca, but um, but it was all very
Speaker 1: new and uh um. I think for Army and Luca
Speaker 1: because they had been on other press runs before, and
Speaker 1: certainly Army had been on like things like a Lone
Speaker 1: Ranger press run or alf muncle these bigger things. I
Speaker 1: think they were aware of how long it was last year,
Speaker 1: but I'm realizing now, like, oh that wasn't that's not
Speaker 1: your go around each time, you know, and especially in
Speaker 1: the way the movie is received, because that's really a
Speaker 1: UM I would hope that's really a special film. So
Speaker 1: disingenuous might be the word you're looking for. The wow man,
Speaker 1: that's like not a hard word to know. So did
Speaker 1: you know? I did not know? You you googled your brain?
Speaker 1: You're like, am I going to bring it out? Like
Speaker 1: Lady Bird as well? You know, I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about Grettaly. That was her first solo stint as a director.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious what you learned from director like Gretta.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be working with her again on Little Women,
Speaker 1: So I don't know. It's it's um got him horribly
Speaker 1: rambley sometimes. So I tried for myself a little bit before.
Speaker 1: But I know what I learned, not even you know,
Speaker 1: maybe I would direct something some days, So I guess
Speaker 1: it's not in the context of acting anyway. But her
Speaker 1: confidence on the set of Ladybird, and that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: an abrasive confidence, that doesn't mean like stepping on people's
Speaker 1: toes or I mean it's a movie. She could she
Speaker 1: could have done whatever she wanted. But um but I
Speaker 1: mean like like she wanted to describe it. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: knew et she she knew what she wanted. It's this
Speaker 1: amazing thing I found with Luca and Felix who directed
Speaker 1: Beautiful Boy as well, where they know exactly what they
Speaker 1: want and yet they it's more about like putting you
Speaker 1: on the pathway or or or illuminating the bounds for you,
Speaker 1: whether it's a moment in a scene or what it
Speaker 1: seems about, than it is like do this exactly, and
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that other way, but um um.
Speaker 1: And certainly sometimes it has to come to bed where
Speaker 1: where down to a line reading and director will be like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is just how it has to be. But um
Speaker 1: but it was really your confidence and and I guess
Speaker 1: the way I would clarify as like confidence without like
Speaker 1: an abrasive self assuredness really just like I'm here to
Speaker 1: make my movie and I know exactly how I wanted
Speaker 1: to go. And also all making a movie this is
Speaker 1: a privilege, Like I lived the photos on seat of
Speaker 1: Lady Bird. I'm not I'm not in the scene but
Speaker 1: for prom where Gretta was in a prom dress herself
Speaker 1: or I think when we were shooting, uh Jenna's character
Speaker 1: played by Odeya rush Um or O'Day's character Jenna played
Speaker 1: by Odea rush Um. Um we were shooting in that house,
Speaker 1: you know scene where I'm reading the book outside I'm
Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette. Um. I just remember because that house
Speaker 1: really had a great mc mansion vibe to it. I smoke.
Speaker 1: Gretta was going for like like wealth, but not with
Speaker 1: specific not with not with specificity, um uh like the
Speaker 1: joy and just like walking around that house with Gretta
Speaker 1: or her confidence. And in addition to I guess and
Speaker 1: I guess maybe that's why they're so palatable and compatible
Speaker 1: to each other. Um like search and uh searchers confidence
Speaker 1: too is a similar like non abrasion and like, I
Speaker 1: guess that's the best kind of confidence to be around.
Speaker 1: It's like when people aren't like flaming you with it
Speaker 1: and um and yeah, they were just so in sync
Speaker 1: at all times. Um and not again not with like
Speaker 1: not like we're so in sync, We're so confident this
Speaker 1: movie is gonna take off. And but but rather like yeah,
Speaker 1: we're telling the story I want to tell exactly. I
Speaker 1: mean even um, I remember UM because I was still
Speaker 1: shooting Hustles at that point. I think that's why I
Speaker 1: started later, or it was just simply the manner of
Speaker 1: the shooting schedule. But they shot three weeks of Lady
Speaker 1: Burger before I even got to set it, before I
Speaker 1: got to l A and and Sacramento shoot it and um,
Speaker 1: and they basically had shot out Luca's head just u bit.
Speaker 1: I remember getting set and literally like the first Dad
Speaker 1: and Gretta being like, God, it's all going so well,
Speaker 1: We're having such a good time, like ready for you
Speaker 1: to keep it up kind of thing. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh God, like this is super scary, and I went
Speaker 1: and visited set. In that scene where Lauren mac hapf
Speaker 1: says my mother was an abusive alcoholic, which I think
Speaker 1: is one of the most moving lines and most moving
Speaker 1: scenes of the movie, where Lederberg very valiantly says, like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to be mad and mean to me
Speaker 1: all the time. Her mother says, you know, you don't
Speaker 1: understand my circumstance, or you don't understand what is you know,
Speaker 1: your circumstances things difficult but it's not like what mine
Speaker 1: with something like along those lines, and visited said I
Speaker 1: was watching that. I like, I went back to the
Speaker 1: hotel like an anxiety crisis. You know. I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta make sure that I don't drop
Speaker 1: the ball here. You did, all right, thank you. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Beautiful Boy, which is this year jam. You know,
Speaker 1: this is based on two memoirs by Nick Cheff and
Speaker 1: his father, and it's about Nick's uh, you know, struggle
Speaker 1: with substance abuse and addiction, and uh, you know what
Speaker 1: I what I first wanted to ask was I assume
Speaker 1: you met Nick, and I'm curious what meeting him did
Speaker 1: to unlock what you were doing to portray him absolutely well,
Speaker 1: meeting him wasn't um being introduced to him for the
Speaker 1: first time, because when I met him, I guess I
Speaker 1: had read Beautiful Boy and Tweak already like four months
Speaker 1: before that or something, and I had the role at
Speaker 1: that point when I was already I don't know configuring
Speaker 1: how I I was hoping to play it. And uh,
Speaker 1: the thing that struck me was he is an extraordinary
Speaker 1: spirit and a huge warmth of character, if that makes
Speaker 1: any sense, And that's how he's described and beautiful boy
Speaker 1: from the lens of David, his father. Um, And I
Speaker 1: think maybe it's literally in David's writing, but it's an
Speaker 1: assumption of the reader too. You might go, like any parent,
Speaker 1: they may be project, the not project, but you we
Speaker 1: we not we. I'm not a parent, but I I
Speaker 1: assume that his parents, like you, see the best in
Speaker 1: your kids. Right. But in meeting him, I really went, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: this is really an incredible human being. And like, like
Speaker 1: I said, the extraordinary spirit and the warmth of his
Speaker 1: character and his wit and his his his quick way
Speaker 1: you can see the machinery in his mind at pace. Um,
Speaker 1: that was ah enlightening just just to meet him as
Speaker 1: a person. And then as it relates to the film
Speaker 1: and playing it, he immediately and hanging out with him
Speaker 1: said something along the lines of, you know, this is
Speaker 1: a representation of my family's life and story. I don't
Speaker 1: expect this to be exactly what it was, and a
Speaker 1: by the laws of reality it never could be because
Speaker 1: we're not them. But um, but to hear that was like, man, um,
Speaker 1: what a gift because it became about it became about
Speaker 1: not doing anything that was disingenuous about about it was.
Speaker 1: It was about not doing anything that'd be disingenuous to
Speaker 1: him as a character. I think Steve felt the same
Speaker 1: way as David and him as a human rather um
Speaker 1: and uh and secondarily to the story and the relationships
Speaker 1: within the story, but then all things mannerisms and the
Speaker 1: way he speaks. It was understood that we weren't doing
Speaker 1: a biopic. And then to take those two bounds per
Speaker 1: se uh where the middle hope late after that was
Speaker 1: in representing h and A universally relatable and that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean like playing things up the middle, but rather just
Speaker 1: being and just playing, um, this story out And I'm
Speaker 1: not going to a little bit of rambler. I think
Speaker 1: it's a subject you've probably you might bring up anyway,
Speaker 1: But um, that's what's apparent to me now and seeing
Speaker 1: having seen it a number of times, beautiful boy and um,
Speaker 1: and in talking to people that I've seen it is
Speaker 1: I know that I had the impression, and I think
Speaker 1: Steve at the impression. I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: on the set at the impression that we were doing
Speaker 1: it like, um, very real. And I know it's a
Speaker 1: very cliche and actory thing to say but I didn't
Speaker 1: know what I meant by that. And certainly I could
Speaker 1: look at movies like Heaven Knows What and Christiane f
Speaker 1: And and I could go, but wait a second, that's
Speaker 1: like raw drug addiction. And I know we didn't. I
Speaker 1: know we didn't top those movies. Nor was that our
Speaker 1: ambition um in that regard and like raw depiction of
Speaker 1: what that experience would be. But then it became clear
Speaker 1: to me. If you have like Heaven Knows What on
Speaker 1: one side of spectrum, and you have a movie like
Speaker 1: Train Spotting on the other side of spectrum, one that
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily glorify but whatever treat you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: quick cuts. Yeah, it's heightened. I don't even knows what.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's really raw. I think I stand
Speaker 1: by that real thing because I think and I think
Speaker 1: this is what um You know, audience has been having
Speaker 1: a very positive reaction to it. But some it is
Speaker 1: a it is a A it's it's it is what
Speaker 1: it is, what it is, it's about what it is.
Speaker 1: And I guess that's my point, is like that's where
Speaker 1: I feel we found Our realness is um um or,
Speaker 1: our our authenticity is um in that we didn't tragify,
Speaker 1: nor did we glorify. And that goes down to the
Speaker 1: relapse structure of it where I think some audiences maybe go,
Speaker 1: wait a second, this doesn't match a three part arc
Speaker 1: or three part narrative um or or like other movies,
Speaker 1: or like like especially movies on a bigger scale UM.
Speaker 1: But I feel that's the point. That's the reality of addiction.
Speaker 1: And and similar to the way Tweak is written Mick
Speaker 1: Chef's book and UH in a distinctly present tense sense
Speaker 1: where everything is moment to moment and there's no conception
Speaker 1: of the future of the past, I think that's the
Speaker 1: reality of the movie. Is like down to not really
Speaker 1: foreshadowing things, which is slightly foreshoinding them. It's like, that's
Speaker 1: the reality, or you know, I gonna be cavalier or anything.
Speaker 1: I don't want to you got a turn, But that
Speaker 1: seems to be the reality of what this thing is.
Speaker 1: That actually speaks to what I was going to ask next,
Speaker 1: which is you know, And I guess I should say,
Speaker 1: you don't have to answer this because it's a personal question,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious if there was anything personal in your
Speaker 1: life that you drew on for this, I mean the
Speaker 1: immediate context being a son and a family. Um. And
Speaker 1: that's not a dodge because like first and foremost, I
Speaker 1: feel like this movie is about family and uh. And
Speaker 1: that's why I think audience members that aren't related to however,
Speaker 1: don't have an experience related to this in any way,
Speaker 1: can still tap into it because it's about what makes
Speaker 1: us family members. It's about what makes us a father,
Speaker 1: if we are a father and a family, or a
Speaker 1: mother or a stepmother brought into a family dynamic, or
Speaker 1: a son, what it means to be a son, what
Speaker 1: it means to be a sibling. And these are universally
Speaker 1: relatable questions and themes um uh that I'm presenting maybe
Speaker 1: like not boring, but I'm just like listening them right now.
Speaker 1: But truly, like, I really hope people see this movie because,
Speaker 1: like I said, independent of addiction, that's this is some
Speaker 1: of the strongest um themes around it. And then more
Speaker 1: specifically to what you're alluding to, my experience in life
Speaker 1: doesn't come close to Nick's. And yet I am twenty two.
Speaker 1: I was born Um, I was gonna say I grew
Speaker 1: up in New Rope, but that's actually irrelevant because the
Speaker 1: drug crisis in this country right now, in particular the
Speaker 1: opiate crisis. I need to be better researched as far
Speaker 1: as like exact areas or demographics. But I know Staten Island,
Speaker 1: for instance, in New York um in large part because
Speaker 1: of the great health insurance of unions there, I don't
Speaker 1: see in large part. But that's just what I've read
Speaker 1: in an article somewhere um or that I hope is
Speaker 1: legit and uh and uh and just across the country,
Speaker 1: the easy access to opiates. Um. You know you read
Speaker 1: it's not like you know, you don't get it on
Speaker 1: a like a corner of the street somewhere. It's uh,
Speaker 1: I've read somewhere too. It's like often family members or
Speaker 1: family friends, like that's where it begins. And I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to make this, you know, it's so
Speaker 1: it's associated. I mean. And also I really want to
Speaker 1: be educational about this, not in the name of not
Speaker 1: being born, but simply like I don't want to be
Speaker 1: cavalier and acting like I'm the I would never have
Speaker 1: any sort of Yeah, let me tweak it. Let me
Speaker 1: just say, like, you know, just you as a craftsman,
Speaker 1: as an as an artist. Is it easier for you
Speaker 1: to personalize or is it easier to conjure what you're doing?
Speaker 1: That's a really a great question. I feel like, um,
Speaker 1: I think it's a fine line. I think like being
Speaker 1: in drama school, you think of like Stanislavski or whatever,
Speaker 1: and you get this impression like I must be of
Speaker 1: one technique or one way of doing this, and I
Speaker 1: think like I had this amazing freshman year a teacher
Speaker 1: at my high school that was all about like, you know,
Speaker 1: tearing yourself down and getting rid of bad habits and
Speaker 1: when have you? And then this amazing self when your
Speaker 1: teachers got Harry Shipman that actually got beamed into the
Speaker 1: Occars last year you did like a short video and uh,
Speaker 1: and he you know, he was all about truth as
Speaker 1: well and breaking bad habits, not you know, not reverting
Speaker 1: to tricks and you're acting. But he was also about
Speaker 1: like making it live. And I really like that because
Speaker 1: to me, I would take a bad movie or like
Speaker 1: an insulting movie any day over a boring movie. And uh,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry I'm giving a long winded answer here,
Speaker 1: but like as it relates to um, as you put it,
Speaker 1: like ah, accessing parts of yourself or channeling or whatever,
Speaker 1: or immersing into something else. I think I've I sit
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle with my biggest focus always being
Speaker 1: that whatever my process is cannot become a distraction other
Speaker 1: people on set because that would be um unprofessional, But
Speaker 1: secondarily cannot be a distraction to yourself and to myself.
Speaker 1: And truly I am not one of um the proponents
Speaker 1: of like having to uh we've your flag of struggle
Speaker 1: to validate your work in any way. And I think
Speaker 1: that's actually a I want to see dangerous because this
Speaker 1: is an awesome industry. We're all right, like it'd be working,
Speaker 1: and they're like actually actual dangerous things out there. But
Speaker 1: I believe that. Ah. I don't even know if masochistics
Speaker 1: right word, but um, I think Christian Bale would like
Speaker 1: this answer, by the way, I think it's it sounds
Speaker 1: a lot like you know, I'm just reminded of speaking
Speaker 1: of him earlier, and I had him on the show
Speaker 1: last year and he had similar things to say. Essentially,
Speaker 1: he boiled down to I don't even know what I do.
Speaker 1: That's absolutely I don't you know, if I could put
Speaker 1: it very simply in a way that I wish Christian.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I do, but I know when
Speaker 1: it's not working. Yeah, let's talk about Steve Carrell briefly.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd love to hear just about working with him.
Speaker 1: He's a huge source of the emotion in this movie. Obviously.
Speaker 1: I can't remember how many scenes you have together. I
Speaker 1: mean quite a few, obviously, but just talk about working
Speaker 1: with him in the movie. What a joy I mean, Um,
Speaker 1: I've said this in interviews with him, I have said
Speaker 1: it to him, and it's really true. Like, I was
Speaker 1: a huge fan of the Office before I started working
Speaker 1: with them, and like I think any actor in New
Speaker 1: York in that time period, like as he was doing
Speaker 1: Fox Catcher and the Big Shore movies like that, we
Speaker 1: were all like, I'm so excited that he was doing
Speaker 1: such amazing work. And uh, I think like with Army,
Speaker 1: with Matthew McConaughey, with Sersha, with Greta, Like when you
Speaker 1: work with people you're fans of prior to UM, I
Speaker 1: guess theres a little bit nervousness because you want to
Speaker 1: get over that you don't want Like my favorite thing
Speaker 1: I've heard about the Beautiful Boy posters, it just looks
Speaker 1: like you're happy to be in a picture of Steve
Speaker 1: Carroll and I don't disagree, Like, I think that's not wrong,
Speaker 1: but U but you want to like you know this
Speaker 1: or that as much as you can. And yet the
Speaker 1: joy of like working with someone that you're already a
Speaker 1: fan of, or someone who's like in the public eye
Speaker 1: or something, is in a scene with them, you don't
Speaker 1: really ever go into your own head because you're so
Speaker 1: locked into what they're doing. And uh. And certainly with Steve,
Speaker 1: maybe he would, you know, contradict me in this regard,
Speaker 1: but I've said this to him, but I truly believe
Speaker 1: like um, as a result of the fact that he is,
Speaker 1: you know, like a total master of improv and like
Speaker 1: a legend of the improv scene in Chicago and New
Speaker 1: York Second City. He I believe, like like myself, has
Speaker 1: like a yes and approach to acting. And UH for
Speaker 1: this kind of movie that was such a gift because
Speaker 1: it was the same thing will call me by her
Speaker 1: name with Army Like, UM, that's what turns me on
Speaker 1: as an as an audience member. When I watched movies
Speaker 1: watch plays. It goes back to a Joaquin Phoenix quote.
Speaker 1: They had an interview magazine, I think like four years ago,
Speaker 1: five years ago, and if I got that publication wrong,
Speaker 1: forgive me. But he said, um, I'm not as interested
Speaker 1: in wearing different scarves as an actor and as much
Speaker 1: as I am chasing a certain feeling and I don't
Speaker 1: know what that feeling is, but I'm chasing it. And
Speaker 1: that's not the exact quote, but that's it was something
Speaker 1: along those lines. And I love that because, um, I
Speaker 1: like character work and I like I like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: taking your process seriously and all that. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, like I said, it was a
Speaker 1: lesson with shiftman and sophomore of high schools like make
Speaker 1: it Live and I think the Master the scene with
Speaker 1: Joaquin Phillips and the Master with the opposite each other
Speaker 1: and there's like that long take and Lakin, he's not
Speaker 1: allowed to blink and You're like, you know, he wasn't
Speaker 1: in his hotel room the night before, Like you know,
Speaker 1: this is how I'm not going to blink, like so
Speaker 1: to study how to Yeah exactly, so yeah and Steve
Speaker 1: so sorry. Point being that Steve is like a total
Speaker 1: master at that and uh and really doesn't you know
Speaker 1: you can really throw anything at him, and it's funny
Speaker 1: now doing these interviews, doing some interviews with him, like
Speaker 1: having you engage in quick wit with him sometimes like
Speaker 1: I can't, I really can't keep up and uh, then
Speaker 1: yeah he's practiced. Um, you wrapped the King right with
Speaker 1: David me showed, Uh, you're playing Henry the Fifth and
Speaker 1: that is that what the haircut is? That is That's
Speaker 1: what I assumed. I was. I was wondering if they
Speaker 1: would actually do the hair that we were seen in
Speaker 1: the art, with the fact that it made me so
Speaker 1: uncomfortable before doing it, and h I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: it's not a good quality of character, but it was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, this scares me so much, like let's
Speaker 1: do it and you gotta die you're scared. And also
Speaker 1: like that it felt like okay, you know to me, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm I can't not know. I felt that now I'm
Speaker 1: not doing that going third person Jesus um the Uh.
Speaker 1: It felt like it felt like a nice test of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're you're claiming to be a serious actor, Like really
Speaker 1: you're scared of the haircut because that was the factual
Speaker 1: accuracy the period was. I don't know why. I don't
Speaker 1: know what people are thinking in the thirteen hundreds. But
Speaker 1: you know what I can bury to say, I doubt
Speaker 1: people are gonna be rock And bowl cuts. That was
Speaker 1: like my least favorite, Like even before I got it,
Speaker 1: I was that's like the one everyone's you know, always
Speaker 1: like it's like the funny cut. It's a bowl cut.
Speaker 1: So oh god, I'm just happy now it's it's stunned.
Speaker 1: How about playing that Shall Pass? It was so wonderfully challenging,
Speaker 1: and um, the young man and me and the young
Speaker 1: actor and me that's still learning, um and is soaking
Speaker 1: up information and studying up people around me work. That
Speaker 1: was the best thing I could have done for myself
Speaker 1: was that movie. And I think it's even like Call
Speaker 1: Me by My Name or something. It's a hallmark of
Speaker 1: a hopefully uh a good story in a good film
Speaker 1: or something when you feel a little out of you know,
Speaker 1: out of your comfort zone. And that's I need more
Speaker 1: as a professional. There was more anxiety in that regard
Speaker 1: because I feel like I could have done something that
Speaker 1: it was more expect expectant or something after last year.
Speaker 1: But I really when I read that script, I thought,
Speaker 1: oh wow, this isn't this is like an actor's actor's
Speaker 1: role and in the legacy of it, Kenneth browna playing
Speaker 1: at Lawrence Olivier, the fact that I, as an American,
Speaker 1: I get to go over there and playing playing English king.
Speaker 1: It was all, um, it was all really really beautifully challenging.
Speaker 1: And then also when we talked about Christian Um, it
Speaker 1: was really good to play a role where as opposed
Speaker 1: to Elo would call me by her name, who's on
Speaker 1: the precipice of like understanding himself in some way and
Speaker 1: having a sexual awakening, and as opposed to Nick Cheff,
Speaker 1: who is like moment to moment just trying to get
Speaker 1: by somebody like um good prince how and not even
Speaker 1: necessarily specific to his character as represented in the Shakespeare
Speaker 1: plays or as it is understood that he was in
Speaker 1: real life, but simply as a consequence of being in
Speaker 1: that kind of position as a king and went alone
Speaker 1: at a young age, at a very young age, required
Speaker 1: like a channeling of stoicism and a muted nous that
Speaker 1: is not very close to me as an actor, and
Speaker 1: that's not I don't mean like proprove myself in any
Speaker 1: way there, because when you're auditioning, it's not my instinct
Speaker 1: and also not that you're trying to be entertaining or anything,
Speaker 1: but if you've been auditioning for things for years, it's
Speaker 1: like how to make this live? But that's an amazing
Speaker 1: thing about hostiles. Like I remember there's a scene with
Speaker 1: Rosmin Pike by the fire at night and I was
Speaker 1: there because I am cleaning my gun in that scene,
Speaker 1: and and I wrapped that night and I hadn't looked
Speaker 1: at the monitor of the entire shoot, but I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll watch like two or three takes of Christians
Speaker 1: coverage and uh, And it was just I was so
Speaker 1: floored by the fact that he didn't reach for anything.
Speaker 1: He was stoic. He was what have you? And that's
Speaker 1: kind of insane. And and I really believe it's a
Speaker 1: consequence of you know, being in these lead role for
Speaker 1: years with strong dramatic integrity, because it's about what the
Speaker 1: reality of the situation would be for that character, and
Speaker 1: that would I would guess maybe I'm totally riffing here,
Speaker 1: but like playing something like that man would help in
Speaker 1: that regard to because the aesthetic and the nature of
Speaker 1: it is so um I want to say commercial, but
Speaker 1: but beloved that you don't have to worry about spicing
Speaker 1: it up in any way. And that's what was so
Speaker 1: amazing on Hostiles, and that's what that's what ultimately I
Speaker 1: was like for the King and playing Henry the Fifth.
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, that's gonna be so challenging to channel
Speaker 1: that thing. But that's exactly why I should do it,
Speaker 1: because because in the vacuum it is challenging. But then
Speaker 1: be as I progressed in my career, you know, a
Speaker 1: role like knick Chef and Beautiful Boy. Again not in
Speaker 1: the name of being entertaining, but simply by the fact
Speaker 1: that scenes sometimes where he's using or he's agitated, it's
Speaker 1: way more electric and something like that, especially like male
Speaker 1: roles as you think they get older. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to say stoicism, but like a certain rooted
Speaker 1: nous is uh not key. I mean in any way
Speaker 1: you can, I can shoot whatever, people can play whatever
Speaker 1: they want. But but anyway, yeah, I guess yeah. And
Speaker 1: then if there's anything to say about it yet, I'm
Speaker 1: curious about Dune with the new Villa Noeuve. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a big role in a movie. I mean I
Speaker 1: like the way I like the way you said that,
Speaker 1: and like, I wish people listening to this can see
Speaker 1: the smile on my face right now because I'm just
Speaker 1: so so deeply excited to do that and big fan
Speaker 1: of the book, A big fan of the book. And um,
Speaker 1: I'll admit I wasn't I it's not like something that
Speaker 1: I had read before I was aware of the project.
Speaker 1: But you know from my uncle, and it's a lot
Speaker 1: of people I know, I know through their youth and
Speaker 1: Deny himself and just like parents and friends have been
Speaker 1: saying it to me now already. It's just like that
Speaker 1: was the book of my youth. And I'm not revealing
Speaker 1: anything here, and I'm thinking I think I actually read
Speaker 1: Denise said in an interview, but he said this to me,
Speaker 1: which was like, if I could make one more movie
Speaker 1: and that's it, it would be this. And when you
Speaker 1: hear that, like, that's a big thing for me now,
Speaker 1: and I got I pray, like, um, I'm able to
Speaker 1: stick to this mode of thinking. But I'm gonna speak
Speaker 1: horribly self referentially here, so people listening to this might
Speaker 1: be bored or something. But like, when I think of
Speaker 1: miss Stevens, that's Julia Hart that she wrote that she
Speaker 1: had written that five years earlier. It is based on
Speaker 1: her experience as a teacher and uh and fostering like
Speaker 1: helpful relationships with some of the students she had. And
Speaker 1: for me, the role was playing it couldn't you know,
Speaker 1: finding drama as a medium of expressing and therapeutically revealing
Speaker 1: himself in high school. So that was like her spirit
Speaker 1: maybe interest in that, and mine was too. Then I
Speaker 1: think of like Hot Summer Nights, which I did right
Speaker 1: after that lasta behind this movie that took him three
Speaker 1: years to write or or the three year process to
Speaker 1: get it made, and that was like his baby too.
Speaker 1: And I think of Prodigal Son, which is playing I
Speaker 1: did in New York, like John Patrick Shanley, that is
Speaker 1: his life story for him. That is like, uh, either
Speaker 1: the third or second party to either the it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's supposed to be direct, it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: right after doubt in his kind of like cannon of
Speaker 1: works about himself were inspired by his life. And then
Speaker 1: after that was Call Me by Her Name, which Peter Spiers,
Speaker 1: a producer, took eight years to make. It was shot
Speaker 1: in Lucas Town. Like I believe, there's so many elements
Speaker 1: of that movie that Luca expressively and masterly masterfully put in,
Speaker 1: and I also believe it was a beautiful consequence of
Speaker 1: just being in an environment that was an extension of him.
Speaker 1: And I think of A Hostiles, But then I think
Speaker 1: of Ladybird, where it was regret his life story, you know,
Speaker 1: And then I and and not not not literally your
Speaker 1: life story, but deeply inspired by And then I think
Speaker 1: A Beautiful Boy that Felix had worked on for six years,
Speaker 1: and that Jeremy Kleiner, the producer, has been trying to
Speaker 1: get made for ten years. And then I think of
Speaker 1: Dune and like I want to keep and then the
Speaker 1: King to elements of that tune. But I think a
Speaker 1: Dune like I want to work on these things that
Speaker 1: people are or the directors rather are like not directing
Speaker 1: with like cool ideas they have, but added like their
Speaker 1: spirit or something. Um. And that's the impression I had
Speaker 1: when I met with Denny I remem at the Camp
Speaker 1: Film Festival this year, like uh uh a. I had
Speaker 1: the impression I was speaking with someone that was like
Speaker 1: way smarter than I am, and which is like whatever,
Speaker 1: may I feel that a lot, but like but especially
Speaker 1: with him and uh, and also that thing like I
Speaker 1: said that he said about being so passionate about it.
Speaker 1: I just thought, I always like The Dark Knight made
Speaker 1: me want to act. I've said that many times before.
Speaker 1: But um uh, I've loved working on these behavior based
Speaker 1: character dramas. That's what really got me into acting was
Speaker 1: seeing Death of Sales and Broad Up by Philip si
Speaker 1: more Offman and Andrew Garfield, or a movie like James White,
Speaker 1: a movie like Punched on Glove, like these are real
Speaker 1: intimate things. But ultimately was The Dark Knight. You know,
Speaker 1: like I want to make a big thing and I
Speaker 1: but I always told myself, like, that's gonna totally come
Speaker 1: down to director. And if it was something like Cristopher Nolan,
Speaker 1: that would do it in two seconds, never something like Danny.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like such a no brainer. And I
Speaker 1: was gonna say one more thing in that regard, which
Speaker 1: is simply that um that in reading the book too,
Speaker 1: and the fact that not only is a piece of
Speaker 1: sci fi literature, but almost as like American literature, it's
Speaker 1: so well respected and regarded, like you can find it
Speaker 1: in like school libraries kind of thing. Um. In combination
Speaker 1: with Denny in the ways approaching it. I don't I
Speaker 1: think that. I think that's scary for actors in green
Speaker 1: screen and all that is. I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think my intelligence. I don't think my I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm ever gonna feel like silly doing it. I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna like look at a space suit and
Speaker 1: be like, you know, I won't feel like Michael Keaton
Speaker 1: the way the character is playing in Birdman as it
Speaker 1: relates to like Birdman um simply because like I said,
Speaker 1: it's that the book itself is such a literary pedigree.
Speaker 1: And also Denny is like really one of my favorite filmmakers,
Speaker 1: and I hope I can bring some sort of like,
Speaker 1: um whatever good energy to it. And and yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: like just so tremendously excited to get going on that.
Speaker 1: What does that star that's March at this point in February,
Speaker 1: February or March or even a little bit later. I
Speaker 1: don't think they exactly know yet either. Cool, good luck
Speaker 1: on that when it comes. And then I wanted to close,
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, on on a more serious note,
Speaker 1: I guess, but I just wanted to talk about the
Speaker 1: me Too movement and you know, you donated your salary
Speaker 1: from the Woody Allen film that's upcoming to a number
Speaker 1: of causes around that realm. And I just what I'm
Speaker 1: curious about is if you feel like there's a sense
Speaker 1: within your generation. I mean, you're part of this young
Speaker 1: generation coming up in this business. Is there a sense
Speaker 1: to be proactive like that to that that that it's
Speaker 1: a house that needs cleaning in any way? Does that
Speaker 1: does that feel certainly? I don't know if the house
Speaker 1: is show business um, showing more like the world or
Speaker 1: the United States right now. UM. I think that was
Speaker 1: the curse and maybe the blessing of the last election
Speaker 1: we had is I think people are invigorated politically in
Speaker 1: a way that um, is it natural. I remember taking
Speaker 1: a government class and school and they were telling us
Speaker 1: that in Australia's and there's a requisite to vote, and
Speaker 1: that was very surprising because in the States, I think
Speaker 1: some and then more specifically of what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: I think certainly like um um, I've heard things like
Speaker 1: activist generation before um and uh. And it's exciting to
Speaker 1: be a part of that moment and to be an
Speaker 1: ally to it. And I think of like a Maggie
Speaker 1: Nelson quote where she says, like it's something along these
Speaker 1: lines are really do not want to butcher it in
Speaker 1: any way, but like, how convenient It's something along the
Speaker 1: lines of how convenient do social progressive movements find there
Speaker 1: ah voice piece with a straight white male or something
Speaker 1: like that is. And so I'm weary of in that
Speaker 1: regard because I don't want to ever make it seem
Speaker 1: like UM to be cavalier in that regard. But certainly like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a there's a cleaning house feeling within here, But
Speaker 1: also like for America in general, let's not end there.
Speaker 1: Let me actually ask, let me ask how I call
Speaker 1: me about you? Okay? Is that is this happening? Is
Speaker 1: this is this man happen? Or I want it happened
Speaker 1: so badly, And I think armies into UM finally, in
Speaker 1: like I believe, you know, Luca really wants to do
Speaker 1: it too, and Andre is really open to it. The author,
Speaker 1: I really see no reason why it wouldn't happen. And
Speaker 1: I really have all the faith in Luca and Andrea
Speaker 1: that they could I was gonna say, cook up, it's
Speaker 1: almost like crass or something like that they will be
Speaker 1: able to devise something that is really special and uh,
Speaker 1: you know that really really excites me. And and certainly
Speaker 1: I think would be years away, and I think it's
Speaker 1: probably a smart thing. Um. Otherwise you gotta what play,
Speaker 1: you gotta play up you would play every something. I
Speaker 1: don't think that would be good. And also um also um,
Speaker 1: like it just seems like a gift or something. I
Speaker 1: mean I talked about this with Luca. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: stay here. I really want to say it here. There's
Speaker 1: a there's a musician. Let's just say that there's a
Speaker 1: musician that I really have a fondness of maybe playing.
Speaker 1: And my idea would be to do a bit now
Speaker 1: and is it a musician that you resemble? Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: um and um, and to do a bit now, shoot
Speaker 1: a bit uh maybe two three years from now, and
Speaker 1: then shoot another bit to three years from the boyhood
Speaker 1: was so awesome. And I don't believe we really have
Speaker 1: seen something uh uh pabomash that formula yet except Link
Speaker 1: Ladders other movies with Ethan Hawk movies, Yeah, exactly, the
Speaker 1: before movies. So for trilogy. So that's really excited me.
Speaker 1: That like what I think of I don't want to
Speaker 1: reveal on my trick here, but like I think of
Speaker 1: that project and I think after done, I have an
Speaker 1: idea of my sleeve too, And I you know, this
Speaker 1: is like so perceptious or something, but I'm having like
Speaker 1: putting together an email the PTA over like the last month.
Speaker 1: I'm just like gathering all the reference points and I
Speaker 1: want to send it to the staft you brothers, to
Speaker 1: like of something that like after Dune, that would be
Speaker 1: really really like raw and uh, because that's the irony
Speaker 1: of working on The King and Dune, and um is
Speaker 1: not the irony because I'm really grateful to have worked
Speaker 1: on both and I can't wait for people to see
Speaker 1: The King and do them so excited to work on
Speaker 1: But those are epic arcs and epic stories, and uh,
Speaker 1: the irony being in a way that maybe in the
Speaker 1: late nineties it couldn't have happened. But I did like
Speaker 1: two indies that were like very small, intimate behavior based traumas,
Speaker 1: and those were the launching points of sorts. So I
Speaker 1: don't want to Like The King was like a great
Speaker 1: acting role, so I want to do that, And Dune
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, on what we didn't you want
Speaker 1: to work on a big movie. I want to. I
Speaker 1: want to. I want to work on that book and
Speaker 1: play the deep, but but I don't want to, like
Speaker 1: straight too far from the raw thing too. Um. I
Speaker 1: think like Adam Sandler or something, and he's gonna work
Speaker 1: with his half you brothers right now. And he called
Speaker 1: uncut Gems. It's it's just like the script so crazy. Um.
Speaker 1: And he's like the great example to me of he's
Speaker 1: in a lot of comedies that we know of, but
Speaker 1: when he taps into that punch rung g love like
Speaker 1: we can do it. He's meerwos Merwood Stories. My friend
Speaker 1: Graceman Patten was in that played played his daughter U.
Speaker 1: So yeah, all I'm thinking about is who this musician
Speaker 1: can be. I don't think it's Jeff Buckley because he
Speaker 1: doesn't have a long career. Honestly, obviously, I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan. Okay, I think I've got a silent answer there. Well,
Speaker 1: good luck with that Manefit it's not Bob Dylan, but
Speaker 1: it's not not him because I don't want to. It
Speaker 1: sounds very Todd Haynes. Okay, now I'll let you off.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually even I think it would be
Speaker 1: less surprising to you than this. Okay, maybe a little
Speaker 1: maybe a little off the rector's talk. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: the record, but for now, everyone should go see A
Speaker 1: Beautiful Boy. I think it'll be out by the time
Speaker 1: this comes out, and all these other projects you got
Speaker 1: lined up. Looking forward to all of it. Man, I'm
Speaker 1: good luck with you. Thank you again for coming on
Speaker 1: the show. Now, thank you liking. Uh really, if anybody
Speaker 1: still listening to this, I'm sorry that I don't know this.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this. So it's perfect, okay,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna get better Okay. Thanks again, dude. Shot